Originally by: Voltaeis Gemini

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Originally by: Tyr Vaantau

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Originally by: Na'Kunni

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Can't we make Thermodynamic's only require Engineering level 5 + Energy Management/science level 4

I find this rather odd, as the noob's (I have quite a nice few mil SP tucked under the belt, so don't class myself as a total noob) already have a hard time to keep up with the vet's, and now with heat here.

They can pwn even more given they know what they're doing. I see/hope this will be sorted out in the future, but for now look's like im gonna have to train it to keep inline, and once again go off my goal, AGAIN....



whine over.

Discuss once you all come out of game!!

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What are the current requirements?

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This discussion topic is just dumb.. its a level playing field for all.. if u cant use a skill now then train for it. The topic poster needs to do what every other player in the game does and prioritise the need for a given skill over the need to train something else.. Well done CCP dont give an inch to whiners like this.. Eve is a rich gaming environ because player DO need to make choices in developing there character.. Not all skills should be easy to learn..

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Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia

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It¦s still very ackward reading threads about 'how to ride eris'

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Originally by: Na'Kunni

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Originally by: FireFoxx80

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It would be nice that if you didn't have the skills, the buttons didn't appear on the UI.

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^^

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Almost every ship I fly, uses cap. And almost all of these die when I run out of cap. Thus Energy Management 5 (along with energy systems operation 5) is an important skill.

*shrug* thermodynamics isn't a must have game option. Therefore I don't see a problem with _only_ a rank 3 needed to train it. Especially as it's a rank 3 you should be thinking about getting anyway.

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Originally by: Cpt Branko

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Why is the heat interface (along with the horrendous new module buttons, the only thing I dislike with the new UI) there for everyone, then?

It's really like teasing people. You never have to, say, train T2 guns. But at least you don't have a sign "nyah, nyah, you're a noob, you can't use T2" on the UI that you essentially have with heat. Especially rude considering the dev blogs advocated it as something that will 'help' new players ;P

And the "work for it" crowd are really the same as the WoW people and their "grind to lvl 60" and "work for it" attitude ;P

Should the new graphics, when they come out, only be available for people who train "Graphics modifications V"? I say, they should! ;)

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Almost every ship I fly, uses cap. And almost all of these die when I run out of cap. Thus Energy Management 5 (along with energy systems operation 5) is an important skill.

*shrug* thermodynamics isn't a must have game option. Therefore I don't see a problem with _only_ a rank 3 needed to train it. Especially as it's a rank 3 you should be thinking about getting anyway.

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Originally by: Deschenus Maximus

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I'm not a noob, and I neither have EM 5 nor plan to train it in the immediate future.

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Originally by: Zaqar

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Really, if they'd originally released the skill with a pre-req of level 4, would anyone at all even think to suggest that it should be raised to level 5?

People just like having something that others don't.

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Originally by: Zaqar

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Really, if they'd originally released the skill with a pre-req of level 4, would anyone at all even think to suggest that it should be raised to level 5?

People just like having something that others don't.

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Originally by: Lord WarATron

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Originally by: Zaqar

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Really, if they'd originally released the skill with a pre-req of level 4, would anyone at all even think to suggest that it should be raised to level 5?

People just like having something that others don't.

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An intresting argument. Yes I guess you would be correct, however, one can also say that if a HAC had a pre-req of cruiser 4, would anyone at all even think to suggest that it should be raised to lvl5?

I have EM lvl5 anyway, (yeah, abaddons force you to do that) but to be honest, everybody should have this skill, unless all you do is fly 100% passive tanked ships forever. That and also Evasive manuvering lvl5 are key skills.

But in my personal opinion, I think that while a few people can use it just now, it may go the same route as Tractor beams and Salvagers and have the requirements droped.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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as in... play EvE?
with a stupid UI I can't use?

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Originally by: Whalesaver

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Having played the game for 2.5 years, I have EM5 so I would like to think my viewpoint is relatively objective.

I believe there should be no pre-requisites for heat.

Why? It is available on every ship and is not a module. It's not as though you need a pre-requisite skill to use your scanner, or to warp, so why to use heat?

Sure seed skills for using it more effectively, but it has the capacity to be a game changing mechanic, why exclude 95% of the playing population from using it?

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Originally by: qantua gnartians

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15 pages so far and still noone has taken the time to think their position over, and have come up with an actual reason to wry heat needs to be restricted content, or wry it needs to be tied to that skill in particular and not it's own specialisation path.

the whole well it's not a specialisation since EM 5 is a must have is just defensive retorics, that does only confirm that pouple dont see a great need for it to be restricted, from anyone.

Im not nesseryly against having heat as a specialisation if someone could point a benefit to it being tied to theat exact existing path of specialisation.

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Originally by: Sinnead Bachmann

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Edited by: Sinnead Bachmann on 21/06/2007 18:12:28
It's simple really, it is that way because the Dev's decided it should be. No other logic is required.

Heat overload is an effect the dev's wish to be available to a smaller group of players than the whole player base. How do I know this to be true? Simple, I look at the skill requirements the dev's have set. The only thing stopping everyone from doing it is the Opportunity Cost

Now, when I was an utter noob the idea of training a 45 day skill seemed horrifying. You see, there were so many other things I could do with those 45 days - ie train up the Learning and core skills for my chosen path. Now that I am less of a noob and have spent some time training some of those 'core' skills to L5 the idea of a 45 day skill is pretty innocuous.

So, it seems you have a choice: Spend the time now and forgo all the other things you could have done with the training time required and gain the ability to overload your modules. Or don't and don't.

Dumbing down the skill reqs isn't the way to go.

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Originally by: Grath Telkin

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Originally by: Sinnead Bachmann

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Edited by: Sinnead Bachmann on 21/06/2007 18:12:28
It's simple really, it is that way because the Dev's decided it should be. No other logic is required.

Heat overload is an effect the dev's wish to be available to a smaller group of players than the whole player base. How do I know this to be true? Simple, I look at the skill requirements the dev's have set. The only thing stopping everyone from doing it is the Opportunity Cost

Now, when I was an utter noob the idea of training a 45 day skill seemed horrifying. You see, there were so many other things I could do with those 45 days - ie train up the Learning and core skills for my chosen path. Now that I am less of a noob and have spent some time training some of those 'core' skills to L5 the idea of a 45 day skill is pretty innocuous.

So, it seems you have a choice: Spend the time now and forgo all the other things you could have done with the training time required and gain the ability to overload your modules. Or don't and don't.

Dumbing down the skill reqs isn't the way to go.

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total agreement, this game is supposed to represent a level unreached by other MMO's. I will say that perhaps they overdid the UI a bit, but the live dev blog said that wasnt the final product. On that note, i really dont think the UI dislike is reason enough to dumb down the skills just so everybody can use it.

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Originally by: Grath Telkin

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this post amazes me.

So is the problem that you have to see it in your UI, or that you cant use the damn heat?

I wonder if all the posters here realize how many 2-3 year old players DIDNT train EM5, simply because they didnt think the final level was worth it. Don't believe me? try trolling the alts for sale, take a look at how many DONT have that skill, AND have 2+year ages on em.

You'd think its the end of the world "Oh woe is me, i cant do things a 3 year player does" BFD, get over it.

The OP here violently attacks anybody who dose not side with him, ignoring every fact presented. He is backed by people calling it a "timesink"...wtf do you think BS 5 is? 60 days for what? a slight boost. I wonder why he bothered to post at all, unless he wanted to prove his lack of debating skills by ignoring facts, and attacking people who try to make a point.

In the end, like everything else in this game, im sure CCP will fold, and "dumb" it down, the nerf cries will reach the heavans, and the great smiting nerf bolt will come down, then EVE will be full of people burning up thier mods and crying for the heat effect to do less damage.

One thing you all need to adjust to, EvE is all about the haves n the have nots. you have trained the skills, or you have not, you will train the skills, or you will not. This game isnt supposed to be fair, its supposed to reward those who work hard at it. If your willing to take the time to train the skill, regardless of what you think of it being a timesink (which is utterly ******** when you look at some of the longer train skills), you will reap the rewards.

only 2 things will make this thread better: a moderator saying "its not changing, deal with it for once instead of *****ing", and CCP saying that EVERY patch from now on will involve increasingly difficult to aquire skills. cause i gotta tell you, that if i had been playing for 3 years, n some guy who started a month ago came along and could do even a portion of what i could do, i would simply find a new game to play.

If the damn UI bothers you so much, start a thread about that to get noticed, but dont use it as a platform to adjust the requirements for a skill, it just sounds assanine when presented in this particular ridiculous argument.

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Originally by: Sinnead Bachmann

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Edited by: Sinnead Bachmann on 21/06/2007 18:12:28
It's simple really, it is that way because the Dev's decided it should be. No other logic is required.

So is just pure and blind belief in aoutority, you do know that those devs have made a lot of changes to eve over the time ajustiing just about averything.

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Originally by: Sinnead Bachmann

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Dumbing down the skill reqs isn't the way to go.

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