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Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.09 05:48:00 - [31] I'm very impressed. There are plenty of other little issues on individual ships (e.g. 5th turret for zealot, med slot for retribution, new role for apoc, omen & maller being garbage), but this is the core of the problem with Amarr. If Amarr got enough bonuses on their ships to have zero cap usage then all these numbers would be ok with me, but the fact that we have no better cap than other races & have the most cap using guns without being the top damage dealers or top tankers is very bothersome. Significant points raised Interesting Approach Great read Not really all the long Energy weapon ships definatly need SOMETHING Dont think CCP can ignore this one Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr!
Cosmo Raata Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2007.11.09 05:49:00 - [32] Originally by: Nez Perces Nice thread... detailed analysis.... I was hoping you might show that Amarr were good at something, just like one thing... but sadly its not the case. I feel ashamed of my blood line. How can we be the master race if we suck so hard. Signed... pls make us a proud race again instead of having to beg on the forums for some love. Nez agreeing with someone on the forums, holy crap. Don't Ban me for my Love of Amarr!
Nez Perces Amarr Metatron Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.09 05:55:00 - [33] Originally by: Cosmo Raata Nez agreeing with someone on the forums, holy crap. Well when somebody is right.... they are right.. nothing you can do about that CCP pls read this thread.. thx.
Dlardrageth Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2007.11.09 06:10:00 - [34] /signed On a side note... I think Amarr got a terrific mining frigate, though. Darn, I did it. Couldn't I keep my mouth shut? Now somewhere the red phone will start to ring and somone wil exclaim: "Buggers, the overpowered Amarr got a totally IMBA frigate. Nerf Amarr!"
Exuscon Amarr	Posted - 2007.11.09 06:36:00 - [35] Edited by: Exuscon on 09/11/2007 06:37:19 "The Argument: So Amarr are meant to be the 'Cap Race', and yet there are races out there (Minmatar in particular) who have absolutely no problems with capacitor! If Amarr really were the 'Cap Race', surely their ships would be able to sustain the amount of energy that their guns use to fire? I mean, who in the history of anything builds something that doesn't work? Or is there something I'm missing? " Alot of empires in History built stuff that did not work. Germany comes to mind in WWII.... The SturmTIGER used a keg round that killed more Germans almost than the Sherman did. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturmtiger "Save the tree! Wipe your arse with an owl instead."
Scav Silver Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.09 06:58:00 - [36] I'll have to argue some of your fittings for BS, but truelly the point was made.. Amarr DPS= Urban Myth Amarr Tank= Urban Myth Amarr CAP= FACT! Amarr DO run out of CAP in a flash.. CCP Idea of Ballance= "Smokin' the Good Sh't" á ----------------------------------------------------------- "Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=- "Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=-
BlackHorizon Caldari Dark Knights of Deneb Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:11:00 - [37] Edited by: BlackHorizon on 09/11/2007 07:15:09 Not signed. Amarr trade for superior tracking on long range weapons, no reloading time, extremely short ammo changing time, higher range on close range weapons (pulses) or higher dps on long range weapons (beams) for higher capacitor use and limited damage flexibility. It's a fair trade and it's balanced.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:21:00 - [38] OP: stop playing EFT and start playing Eve FFS. Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y I I
Nez Perces Amarr Metatron Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:24:00 - [39] Originally by: BlackHorizon Not signed. Amarr trade for superior tracking, no reloading time, extremely short ammo changing time, higher range on close range weapons (pulses) or higher dps on long range weapons (beams) for higher capacitor use and limited damage flexibility. I encountered a fallacy in your argument.... Why would I want to change my frequency crystals, when I have no cap left? What actually happens is that you sit there twiddling your thumbs, waiting for cap to recharge hoping that you don't die, whilst everybody else is still having fun. Talk about lack of stamina....its embarassing. Bottom line is for the amount of damage lasers do, the cap consumption on them is astronomical.
Mr Bodacious mUfFiN fAcToRy	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:26:00 - [40] Originally by: Uchuu There has already been an ultimate amarr whine thread, plus countless others, and others started in unrelated topics, for more than 2 years. The ultimate amarr whine thread got a response from a dev who I don't even think is on the EVE team anymore. NEXT ever wonder why he isnt there anymore? he proposed they should fix amarr at the staff meeting. He was never heard from again.

Scav Silver Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:33:00 - [41] Originally by: BlackHorizon Edited by: BlackHorizon on 09/11/2007 07:16:25 Not signed. Amarr trade for superior tracking on long range weapons, no reloading time, extremely short ammo changing time, higher range on close range weapons (pulses) or higher dps on long range weapons (beams) for higher capacitor use and limited damage flexibility. It's a fair trade and it's balanced. Your setups are also intentionally rigged to justify your strained thesis. extremely short ammo changing: T2 ammo is bugged, often ya have to reload again.. Not like T1 where ya can have +1 and always have 'em stacked.. higher range on close range weapons (pulses): When was the last time ya fought at 50 km?? higher dps on long range weapons (beams): Sure, for a minute or two.. It's a fair trade and it's balanced.: á ----------------------------------------------------------- "Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=- "Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=-
Dammar Amarr Ephorate	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Bellum Eternus OP: stop playing EFT and start playing Eve FFS. You are one sad, sad little forum *****. Then again, every time I see idiots like you whine about people using EFT, I lol.
Criza Amarr United Warriors Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:40:00 - [43] Signed... pls make us a proud race again instead of having to beg on the forums for some love. SIGNED I love flying amarr shipps but CCP should ******* start considering all these issues. Thank you for this abolutly briliant analysis.I hope someone that can do something about it will read this post.
Nez Perces Amarr Metatron Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:41:00 - [44] Edited by: Nez Perces on 09/11/2007 07:41:29 There is a simple way to find out the truth of the matter. Hypothetical question: If somebody offered you a choice of character, where that character was trained up to max BS/cruiser/BC level and max techII guns, but for a single race, which race would you chose? I dare anybody to answer Amarr, with all honesty. Why would you? for every single role, there is a better ship out there than an Amarr ship. End of. CCP fix this farce that is the Amarr race, already.
Beowulf Scheafer Gallente	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:41:00 - [45] Edited by: Beowulf Scheafer on 09/11/2007 07:44:16 awesome posting, i really support it, expect 1 point: amarr is considered the best armor tank race, NOT the best gankrace. thats gallente ever sinve i think, and i have no idea who tells others such crap. therefore its ok for the dominix to have a better theoretical dps on tier1 ( that is very theoretical, as you can't fit 6 neutrons into an empty domi without using reactor controls...). besides that, nice work
Scav Silver Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.09 07:59:00 - [46] Edited by: Scav Silver on 09/11/2007 07:58:59 Originally by: Nez Perces Edited by: Nez Perces on 09/11/2007 07:41:29 There is a simple way to find out the truth of the matter. Hypothetical question: If somebody offered you a choice of character, where that character was trained up to max BS/cruiser/BC level and max techII guns, but for a single race, which race would you chose? I dare anybody to answer Amarr, with all honesty. Why would you? for every single role, there is a better ship out there than an Amarr ship. End of. CCP fix this farce that is the Amarr race, already. I'll still pick Amarr.. I love it when ppl die in total disbelieve.. Plus, the ships look awsome.. Atleast, we can look good when we die.. á ----------------------------------------------------------- "Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=- "Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=-
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:01:00 - [47] Firstly, I like your factual readouts and I appricaite you actually taking the time to set up some good solid examples. Secondly, I think this proves 2 secondary points A) Caldari reaaaaally blow, the Amarr and them fight for suckiest Ship and if you factor in Speed the Caldari are likely to wind up solidly at the bottom being unable to hold range to make their shots count for gun boats and we will forget Missiles exist (it is too painful otherwise). B) Gallente are way too powerful, super tanks, super DPS, AND you did not even put their Drones into that mix and Ogre II's REALLY HURT. If you add in the additional Drone DPS it would become sickeningly obvious that the Gallente with their "We do everything you do...but we do it BETTER!" ships are just plain over powered. They simply have No weakness, aside from a tiny bit of speed issues but those are laughable compared to the shield tanking Caldari. +++++++++++++++ I saw the Sign...! O.o
Scav Silver Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:10:00 - [48] Originally by: Bellum Eternus OP: stop playing EFT and start playing Eve FFS. Yeah, I would love that.. I praticly grew up on WC, WC2 and SC2, not to mention I owned a 150+ server for Freelancer.. The real trick is Lag.. The current internet can't support that for EvE.. á ----------------------------------------------------------- "Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=- "Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=-
Nez Perces Amarr Metatron Inc.	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:20:00 - [49] Originally by: Scav Silver I'll still pick Amarr.. I love it when ppl die in total disbelief.. Plus, the ships look awsome.. Atleast, we can look good when we die.. Heh...never said we didn't look good. Some of us even have to hide our faces cause we are so good looking... oh you mean the ships. Yeah Amarr ship aesthetics are nice.. thats the only reason why you wanna fly them though...
Kazuma Saruwatari	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:27:00 - [50] Finally, numbers that actually make sense. Now CCP, here's the proof that Amarr needs oomph, and bad, and now. Not next patch, not Soon(tm), now. - Odd Pod Out, a blog of EVE Online

Garia666 Amarr T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:39:00 - [51] what skill did you have testing.. ? ->My Vids<-
Corwain Gallente Down In Flames	Posted - 2007.11.09 08:40:00 - [52] I stopped after I saw you EFTing a Domi with Neutron blasters+3 magstabs, then using a 7 slot tank on a Domi for tanking comparisons. While I do agree Amarr needs something using skewed numbers and theoretical SISI fittings to prove your point is rubbish. --
Plutonian Plutonian Shore	Posted - 2007.11.09 09:09:00 - [53] Originally by: Corwain I stopped after I saw you EFTing a Domi with Neutron blasters+3 magstabs, then using a 7 slot tank on a Domi for tanking comparisons. While I do agree Amarr needs something using skewed numbers and theoretical SISI fittings to prove your point is rubbish. I think the OP put a lot of work into this (and kudos for that... beats the "Boost Amarr NOW!" threads). However, I have to agree the comparisons are flawed, and there seems to be a very clear attempt to lead the reader (instead of simply letting the chips fall where they may). I could be completely wrong here, but I can't shake the feeling that you made your decision, then went looking for data to reinforce it. Like Corwain, I feel the Amarr do need a boost. Even more, they seem to need a focus.
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.09 11:32:00 - [54] Crusaders doesnt use missile launchers, just change that before some troll qoutes you on it and starts a flame war. Otherwise: Significant points raised Interesting Approach Great read Not really all the long Energy weapon ships definatly need SOMETHING Dont think CCP can ignore this one Also, Rember that all amarr ships looses a bonus to get their guns operational. NO OTHER RACE have this kind of penalty. Sure lasers doesnt use ammo, sure they got the fastest reloadingtime in the game and have great variation in range. But even if you replaced the 50% cap bonus and reduced laser cap usage overall it would still be pointless to use them on any other ship then the amarr ones because they all lack bonuses and EM/THERM is the easiest to omni tank via armor. (Its not exactly hard to get EM to 70+ and the others to similar levels using 3x resistance modules on caldari ships either so dont mention shieldtanking here.) *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
mama guru Gallente Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.09 11:34:00 - [55] Originally by: Bellum Eternus OP: stop playing EFT and start playing Eve FFS. Dont go there for crying out loud. Why should i get an abaddon/Apoc/Geddon when i got gallente BS V and T2 Hybrids aswell as T2 lasers of all sizes? *signature removed - please email us to find out why (include a link) - Jacques([email protected]) EVE is like the "Fisherman's Friend" of MMOs. If it's too hard, you are too weak.
Groes Thir Gallente Karjala Inc. Onnenpyora	Posted - 2007.11.09 11:47:00 - [56] Edited by: Groes Thir on 09/11/2007 11:47:51 Edited by: Groes Thir on 09/11/2007 11:47:10 "Sir Nerfbatter sir, our playerbase is demanding a boost for Amarr ships" "Sigh.. again? Okay, let's give 'em a nice little boost" Assistant and Sir Nerbat stare each other seriously Akward silence.... Both burst into laughter
CaldeteisX Caldari Helios Incorporated Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.09 11:56:00 - [57] Originally by: ZerKar B) Gallente are way too powerful, super tanks, super DPS, AND you did not even put their Drones into that mix and Ogre II's REALLY HURT. If you add in the additional Drone DPS it would become sickeningly obvious that the Gallente with I suggest you read this section again. Originally by: Felysta Sandorn Damage Analysis First off is a flat out DPS potential for each ship. Resistances are not taken in to account here, neither are fittings (unless it's impossible). Simply close range high damage weapons with three damage mods. Drones are also used. He did include drones, not as sickenly obvious as u thought.
Wild Rho Amarr GoonFleet	Posted - 2007.11.09 11:57:00 - [58] More or less pure Amarr specc'd for the last 4 years here and I have to admit I enjoyed your post (although I disagree with your statement that our ship are 'broken'). As your analysis shows the problem isn't nearly as dramatic as your conclusion states, however your post does an excellent job of highlighting the core problem with our races ships and weapons: they aren't bad, they just aren't noticably better at what they should be doing over other races. Amarr ships are supposed to be tank and gank monsters that can either dish out alot of pain or suck it up for a respectable time. To balance that philosiphy our ships are generally slow, cumbersome and the most susceptible to EW in all its forms. Once again, good post.
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2007.11.09 12:18:00 - [59] Wait, Amarr got more 'oomph' a year ago - or so a Dev said :P /signed obviously, although I doubt it'll help more than that 100 page thread. Now recruiting!
Felysta Sandorn Caldari System-Lords Insurgency	Posted - 2007.11.09 12:27:00 - [60] Responding to the comments (updated first page): Originally by: Felysta Sandorn EDIT: Responses... To those telling me to play EVE, not EFT, I do, and that is where I first saw these problems. The figures here are ones I got from EFT to back up my claims that Amarr lack any 'oomph' as it were. If I did not use these figures, this would just be another average whine thread with no real basis in factual evidence. I wanted to change that and give a detailed analysis of every race to prove that Amarr ships were the worst off in the categories I mentioned. To those arguing the credibility of the Dominix setup, I have a Gallente alt, and have flown that Dominix setup. It requires a lot of RCU to make it fit, but load it up with a shield tank, and it'll melt anyone it meets! A slightly more realistic setup is one with Ions, which still gives more DPS than the Armageddon with Mega Pulse lasers. To those arguing that I rigged all the fittings in favour to badmouth Amarr, check out the fittings for yourself. In the damage comparison, I went for the highest DPS possible for each ship, using three damage mods on each ship. For the armour tanking comparisons, I went for a full armour tank using every slot (yes, this changes the fittings on every ship I just tried the DPS for), but you can't have Amarr ships do both (gank and tank). Though you can both gank-fit and tank-fit shield tanking ships. Read the analysis about Minmatar ships. All skills were at level 5 for this comparison also, so there is no bias towards any race. Also, thanks everyone for agreeing me, and yes, I have changed the title now! And it took me a total of about 8 hours to put together this data. I'm unemployed and have an hour every day where I don't play EVE! Latest Video, Click Here!



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