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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.11 07:51:00 -
[1471]
 Originally by: Kruel
I'll list the sub-capital Amarr combat ships that can compete with other races in their respective category:
Punisher, Maldiction, Arbitrator, Harbinger, Armageddon, Abaddon, Paladin, Sacrilege, Devoter, Curse, Absolution, Damnation.
Punisher - useless frig (2 mids - no pvp, lasers - no pve)
Harbinger/abaddon - only gangs and heavy plated setups or active tank+ac/artis.
Devoter - worst HIC. Dont know for what advantage it has only 4 turrets and f***ng cap reduction bonus. (or devs suggested, that lasers used too many cap and in order to balance amarrs they remove 1 turret, but forget to add +25% faction bonus?)
Paladin - worst maradeur (but still much better than any t1 amarr BS)
Originally by: Kruel
Oh, and who uses Tracking Disruptors anyway? I don't fit em on my Curse because there are better things to put in those mids.
I think that if curse\piligrim have something instead tracking disrupter bonus (or ability to affect optimal and fallof with TD) they will be great.
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SkyCrane
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Posted - 2008.01.11 08:01:00 -
[1472]
Originally by: Valadeya uthanaras
I have 3 T2 Tracking disruptor, with top skill and top ship BONUS!!!
Sleipnir still hit me for full damage!!! and even autocannon bs will do good damage on me!!! EASY TOO SEE HOW WRONG IT IS.
Missile with hit me with full damage....
ECM on a rook kill 3 ships targeting almost permanantly from long range, a really nice role
Damp + Scram bonus on a Lachesis will keep you out of any harm from a single ship, or even a few ships for a while, and make you one of the best tackler in many situation
Huggin .... dont have to make a picture why its amazing.....just think of the long range web.......with crazy strenght.
Last patch show how much general lack of knowledge of the games the new balance developper have(zulupark), siply because EVERYWHERE on the forum OR in-game Tracking disruptor was CLEARLY the worst electronic warfare.....
YET HE NERFED IT
because of some content introduction HE SHOULD HAVE USED TO BOOOSSSST IT.....
SO why curse is half-decent.....simply because It have noseferatu and neutraliser with long range that where nerfed...but it have no use in large gang, had is EW screwed for some idiotic reason, can't fit decently.
THe main point his.......Curse boost to a heavy level a medium level module(nosferatu/neut).....while the other 3 boost something to a level no other ship have
edit:
yes it does boost TD.....but they are pointless now
So all those good curse pilot you see everywhere.....are mostly people with high grade set in their head, otherwise, its a hard time doing stuff with a curse
and No "you can use missile on it" excuse....ITS BONUSING NOSFERATU AND NEUTRALIZER, NOT missile...
Valadeya
Onfe again I have to point out my extremely limited experience in PvP, but I still think the Curse is fine.
Sure, the trackingdisruptors are next to useless, butt he highslots are still usefull.
Play around with it's fitting a little bit and see what you can do with it, and I'm sure you'll work something out which works in small gangs :)
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Disclaimer: Please feel free to ignore typoes... I suck at typing... :) |
Felysta Sandorn
System-Lords
Insurgency
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Posted - 2008.01.11 11:16:00 -
[1473]
Originally by: Wrattus Norvegicus
Of course the simple solution to the 'Amarr question' is to simply fly the other, better ships. I flew the Absolution for ages before I realised how much better the other racial command ships are. I now fly a Sleipnir and have never looked back.
You might be suprised how quickly you can retrain for a different ship in the same class, many of the skills carry over.
This...
It took me less than a week to train for a Hurricane and named guns... It does the same DPS as a Harbinger, but has no cap issues, goes faster, has a smaller sig radius, is more maneuverable, is cheaper to buy and fit, and easier to fit (essentially has an extra 50-60 CPU compared to the Harbinger). To get the same style of fitting from the Harbinger, I need to use two fitting rigs (less gun CPU), which leaves one free rigslot, where the Hurricane has three.
I'm training for a Devoter at the moment, but once that's done, I'm going to get t2 guns for the cane and see about training minnie cruiser 5.
Latest Video, Click Here!
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Lady Vorax
Amarr
UK Corp
Rare Faction
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Posted - 2008.01.11 12:01:00 -
[1474]
As far as i can tell no eve dev, gm, whatever has posted in here. in a 50 page topic.......\
Isnt that a clear sign that us poor amarr pilots are going to get nerfed and nerfed some more and that CCP doesnt give a rats behind:) about it. |
Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
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Posted - 2008.01.11 12:52:00 -
[1475]
Even the relatively new Amarr E-Attack ships have inherited Amarr problems. They, and Amarr Recons have bonus for the module that has different ship-size classes. Nosfs and neuts can be frigate-size, cruiser-size and battleship-size. Any other race Recons and E-Attack frigs have bonus for modules that work the same way on any ship size. There's no battleship size webs and frigate size webs, same goes for scrambling, dampning and ECM. IMHO, that renders Amarr E-Attack frig much less attractive than any other E-Attack frig. Recons still can pull their weight, but the nos nerf hit them hard too (the irony is that the nos was nerfed because of Gallente, and the victims are Amarr ships).
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Jarriah Takate
Amarr
Celestial Horizon Corp.
Valainaloce
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Posted - 2008.01.11 13:14:00 -
[1476]
Well, i am Amarr and i am proud of it.
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Enkindu
Gallente
Black Serpent Technologies
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Posted - 2008.01.11 13:25:00 -
[1477]
You guys ever think that this is perhaps intentional? Maybe you are all getting your rightful dose of Karma for voluntarily choosing to play a race that (even virtually) supports and practices slavery? Seems fair to me.
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.11 13:26:00 -
[1478]
Quick recap of last 51 pages
New Amarr players and also any players with 18+ charisma - REMAKE your char unless you know what you are doing.
Also for experienced players,
Lasers have.....
Worst Range for long range fights
Worst tracking for close range
Worst REAL damage output vs REAL World pvp ships
Use most cap
Worst fitting reqs
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.11 13:30:00 -
[1479]
Originally by: Jarriah Takate
Well, i am Amarr and i am proud of it.
Proud races are never the good ones because if your race was the best there wouldnt be much to be proud of, would there?
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[Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice |
burek
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.01.11 13:35:00 -
[1480]
This thread would have much more credibility if it had less posts by JoJo. CCP probably looks, wow 51 pages, lets read this.... oh it's JoJo on every page, must be troll. Forget it...
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Zaskarr
Amarr
Falling Stars Squadron
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Posted - 2008.01.11 13:44:00 -
[1481]
Originally by: Jarriah Takate
Well, i am Amarr and i am proud of it.
F***k Yeaaah, Amarr FTW! 
__________________
How do I shot web? |
Poister
Amarr
THEM.
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2008.01.11 16:56:00 -
[1482]
Still no Official response?
Amarr were once Rocks, now were just mere pebbles in the sand.
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kessah
Blood Corsair's
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.01.11 17:02:00 -
[1483]
Felysta Sandorn train Surgical strike 5, pulse spec 4 missing out on 6% dmg there.
Amarr are fine i use them and im a perfect in them, they require high end skills.
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Poister
Amarr
THEM.
Praesidium Libertatis
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Posted - 2008.01.11 17:07:00 -
[1484]
Originally by: kessah
Felysta Sandorn train Surgical strike 5, pulse spec 4 missing out on 6% dmg there.
Amarr are fine i use them and im a perfect in them, they require high end skills.
Get a Clue .... I both those at 5 ...well practically all gunnery skills at 5.... And there still ****e !
Besides Lasers are not the only argument here.
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kessah
Blood Corsair's
Blood Blind
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Posted - 2008.01.11 17:31:00 -
[1485]
Originally by: Poister
Originally by: kessah
Felysta Sandorn train Surgical strike 5, pulse spec 4 missing out on 6% dmg there.
Amarr are fine i use them and im a perfect in them, they require high end skills.
Get a Clue .... I both those at 5 ...well practically all gunnery skills at 5.... And there still ****e !
Besides Lasers are not the only argument here.
Ahh you were the one that died to me in Passari the other day, i can only expect ignorant and hostile responses from u and ur corp.
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Hey You
Destructive Influence
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2008.01.11 17:36:00 -
[1486]
i just noticed thread.
All i can say is...
Signed!
We Ride Together We Die Together |
Toxic Fumes
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Posted - 2008.01.11 18:47:00 -
[1487]
Signed
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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Dark-Rising
The Dawn of Darkness
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Posted - 2008.01.11 18:50:00 -
[1488]
Originally by: kessah
Felysta Sandorn train Surgical strike 5, pulse spec 4 missing out on 6% dmg there.
Amarr are fine i use them and im a perfect in them, they require high end skills.
And do you realized how much damage output the other races get with maxed skills like that? I think you dont.
---------------------------------------------
[Video]The Inquisition I - Swift Justice |
Meridius Dex
Amarr
Foundation
R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2008.01.11 21:17:00 -
[1489]
It has been posited in another thread that the upcoming 'boost patch' will contain long-overdue fixes to Amarr/lasers. Anyone have a dev quote on this?
--
Meridius Dex
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Amarr = EVE on Hard setting |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.11 21:19:00 -
[1490]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 11/01/2008 21:20:06
Originally by: Meridius Dex
It has been posited in another thread that the upcoming 'boost patch' will contain long-overdue fixes to Amarr/lasers. Anyone have a dev quote on this?
They have no fix's planned. Every single patch since rmr had some kind of stealth Amarr nerf. Even when they fix the sacriledge, then nerfed the hell out of curse and Amarr EW.
Or remember how they boosted megapulse tracking with conflag to be worse trackcing than any non-amarr dreadnaught closerange weapon.
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2008.01.11 21:42:00 -
[1491]
Poor JoJo still doesn't understand tracking, you have my sympathies.
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Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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Cory Veilwalker
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:08:00 -
[1492]
Well I do hope CCP will finally take care of amarr issues. Enough is enough.
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Cpt Branko
The Bloody Red
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:18:00 -
[1493]
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
You're trolling.
1) Khanid Mk2 was a outright Amarr boost to the crappy Khanid line.
2) Pulse 25% tracking boost anyone? They should reverse it because you didn't notice it though.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Tra Ding'ho
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Posted - 2008.01.11 22:22:00 -
[1494]
Originally by: Cory Veilwalker
Well I do hope CCP will finally take care of amarr issues. Enough is enough.
Other Amarr issues like.... Low self esteem?
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Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.11 23:01:00 -
[1495]
Edited by: Jonny JoJo on 11/01/2008 23:01:53
Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
You're trolling.
1) Khanid Mk2 was a outright Amarr boost to the crappy Khanid line.
2) Pulse 25% tracking boost anyone? They should reverse it because you didn't notice it though.
Back off, Anti-Amarr Troll.
1. Khanid made previosly unusable ships useable by basing ships on non-amarr design. For example, Sacriledge got laser fix by CCP removing lasers and making it a caldari missile ship that required Amarr cruiser lvl5. Other than Sacri, most of amarr have serious problems.
2. Megapulse + Conflag has worse tracking AFTER the 25% boost than a Dreadnaught Ion Seige Blaster.
So go away troll
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Mila Prestoc
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Posted - 2008.01.11 23:15:00 -
[1496]
Ignore:
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
2. Megapulse + Conflag has worse tracking AFTER the 25% boost than a Dreadnaught Ion Seige Blaster.
JoJo doesn't understand tracking or even use CCPs tracking guide to check his claims.
-------------------------
Originally by: "Lord Violent"
EvE is slowly becoming a game for the stupid, catered to by devs as they lack ability to kill/survive anything.
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zacuis
Great Big Research
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Posted - 2008.01.11 23:52:00 -
[1497]
while i think your anaylis of dps is not in depth enought as it doesnt take into account tracking optimal or fall off. although im not sure if u had taken these into account it would make any difference as i havnt ran the numbers my self.
amarr need some real loving my alt is a 45 mill sp amarr toon only trained in combat skills and hes fun to fly. but my gall and caldari still do every thing he can do better and there skills arnt any where near his which is really sad.
i`d like no cap use on there guns tbh and give the crystals more dame types take some of the em damage and put it in explo and kinetic.
BIG SIGNED HERE!!!
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2008.01.12 00:10:00 -
[1498]
Edited by: PeacefullNub on 12/01/2008 00:23:28
Originally by: Cpt Branko
1) Khanid Mk2 was a outright Amarr boost to the crappy Khanid line.
Khanid ships are fine, exept 1 thing - its not amarr boost. Amarrs have no missile boats, no missile specs, no SP in missiles. Even before this "boost" amarrs have high skillreqs (all skills exept missiles and shieldtanking). Probably when CCP nerfed nosfs they think:
"but many non-amarr (amarrs - who cares about 16% when there is 60% caldary+galente?) players trained useless amarr cruisers for best solomobile (Curse). Lets give them something like armortanked roketships!"
No,realy - 2\3 of khanid ships pilots are caldary.
Originally by: Cpt Branko
2) Pulse 25% tracking boost anyone? They should reverse it because you didn't notice it though.
Actualy i dont mind to reverse it (and khanid ships too btw). At least CCP will have no exquses like "but you have youre "Oomh" - youre fine now". Why we need this +25% pulse tracking boost if its tracking still worst?
P.S.
Devs allways thinking about balance, about a way to fix amarrs and not make them overpowered. They allways waiting, comparing, analising stats. They keep their work in secret. And in the end they will do some stupid thing and call it "ultimate amarr boost". And this scenario will repeat itself until the end of Eve.
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In Theory
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Posted - 2008.01.12 01:17:00 -
[1499]
Perhaps listing the major problems Amarr have, then desribing/discussing solutions would be more productive than "Amarr have issues, boost plx, /signed"
Personally, I see the main problems as;
1.Lasers, in general, are poor weapons.
--->Too much cap use
--->Weak damage type, no variance
--->Weak range
--->weak tracking
--->harsh powergrid reqs.
2.Amarr ships are lacking capacitor and powergrid.
--->Beyond frigate set-ups, it becomes very tough to fit Amarr ships- usually because of lack of cpu.
--->Cap use is extreme, between lasers (main issue), speed modules, and armor repair mods- Amarr burn through cap too fast.
3.Nothing really "special" about Amarr ships/specialization.
--->Minmatar have 'speed', Caldari have awesome 'cap-less' shield tanking/missiles, Gallente are great with Drones and (for lack of better word) are pvp pwnmobiles.
--->If Amarr are supposed to be a great cap race, then we need better cap- if we are supposed to be the heaviest tanks, boost our armor/resists more...
================
My biggest concern is lasers. While Lasers are definitely not the perfect weapon for warfare, they are by far weaker than even projectile weapons (buddy of mine is running Minnie, projectiles aren't perfect, but they're leagues ahead of lasers).
Major problem is cap use, not only do Amarr ships waste a racial bonus by having to reduce the capacitor use (no other race would even bother with lasers as is, so why should we lose a bonus to make them barely useable?
I admit that, being mostly ammo-free (high-end crystals burn out), laser cap use is NEEDED to retain balance... but watching my capacitor run down from only using my lasers and no other module activated is rather disappointing... A ship should be able to sustain laser fire without other modules using cap- but then when you activate repairers and MWDs, etc. your cap will burn out faster...
I can't say what a reasonable period of time would be for our cap to last running lasers-- but a 30% reduction is cap req. for all energy turrets would prolly sort it out. This would also mean removing the cap reduction bonus on Amarr ships and replacing it with a damage or RoF bonus instead.
Secondly, lasers need to be doing Thermal damage as a priority over EM... don't know how many of you understand that physics of focused energy, but lasers as they are should be doing primary thermal damage, with EM as the secondary component, with some crystals increasing EM damage at the expense of thermal... Thermal is the actual laser component, EM being the electromagnetic field that contains the pulse/beam as it is fired.
Basically reversing the current damage types as they are now. This would all but eliminate the narrow list of viable targets for Amarr.
--->A friend of mine (who also plays Amarr), mentioned that explosive could also be a possible crystal type- but I don't know how a laser would explode.
It's probably for balance sake to maintain current range and tracking limitations on lasers, but I still feel that tracking on lasers should regularily outclass projectile weapons, if not also hybrids... as lasers are focused light/energy- and no solid projectile to lose accuracy, the only limitation on tracking would be turret movement- but without the extra mass of ammunition (thus less burden of the mechanism), shouldn't a laser turret move faster?
And finally, the powergrid reqs. are harsh to make the more powerful turrets harder to fit- for balance and all, but it's impossible to fit 8 small beams on a Coercer along with repairer and afterburner, without resorting to powergrid mods.
This goes along with Amarr ship issues... either lower energy turret powergrid req. or increase ship powergrid (and Omen cpu).
If lasers are fixed, then most Amarr worries are solved... we'll still burn cap and be mid-range ships in a long/close range world, but the root of the problem is solved.
Amarr ships still need a bit of love though.
Just my thoughts...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Well, that should've worked... |
Jonny JoJo
Amarr
The Imperial Guards
Darkness Rising Alliance
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Posted - 2008.01.12 01:23:00 -
[1500]
Originally by: Mila Prestoc
Ignore:
Originally by: Jonny JoJo
2. Megapulse + Conflag has worse tracking AFTER the 25% boost than a Dreadnaught Ion Seige Blaster.
JoJo doesn't understand tracking or even use CCPs tracking guide to check his claims.
Tell me, let us say that I have a hostile typhoon webbed at 2km and he is orbiting me at 20m/s. How come I miss something like 40%+ of my shots if there is no pracking issue?
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