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Scav Silver
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.10 02:23:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Amarr use lasers.
Ships are made of metal.
Laser bounces off metal.
Laser does less damage.
Where is the problem with that ? At least Amarr ships tank armor damage like there is no tomorrow. An Minmatar get
:+15m/s speed bonus .... : NO 10 second reload (insta crystal switch on range/dmg/type) : NO reload (unless you have to) : NO need to carry ammo
Go fly a flimsy Minmatar ship, with mixed projectile/missile/speed bonuses, and then say that Amarr are nerfed.
Its like saying Ravens are no use when you do Caldari missions.
FAIL MINUS!! á ----------------------------------------------------------- "Scav est procul Porta!!" -=Pimary=- "Tonight you dine in....BKG?" -=Ashemi Darkhold=- |
Nessa Aldeen
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Posted - 2007.11.10 02:39:00 -
[152]
I tell you why CCP ignore people who fly Amarr ships.
1. CCP live in Jovian space 2. Because of their Jove connections or them being Jove themselves, that incident where Amarr came and tried to pwn them Jovians really ticked them off. 3. Ergo no technology transfer from Joves to Amarr but everyone else gets em. 4. Instead they sabotage Amarr from the inside out..(nerf here and nerf there..generally ignoring any pleas or please)
For further enquiries contact SOCT.. (run by a Jove)
and oh.. /SIGNED
p.s. please Jovies.it's not our fault you look like Jello.. we apologise for that little 'invasion' fix the Amarr ... |
Dammar
Amarr Ephorate
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Posted - 2007.11.10 02:49:00 -
[153]
Edited by: Dammar on 10/11/2007 02:49:46 It's true.
Here's Proof!
(edit:that is on TQ..)
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Nez Perces
Amarr Metatron Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 02:51:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Nessa Aldeen I tell you why CCP ignore people who fly Amarr ships.
1. CCP live in Jovian space 2. Because of their Jove connections or them being Jove themselves, that incident where Amarr came and tried to pwn them Jovians really ticked them off. 3. Ergo no technology transfer from Joves to Amarr but everyone else gets em. 4. Instead they sabotage Amarr from the inside out..(nerf here and nerf there..generally ignoring any pleas or please)
For further enquiries contact SOCT.. (run by a Jove)
and oh.. /SIGNED
p.s. please Jovies.it's not our fault you look like Jello.. we apologise for that little 'invasion' fix the Amarr ...
You know what, I think you may have stumbled across something close to the truth. Only its a little more sinister.
I'm willing to bet good money that most devs don't play amarr much. Tbh I can't even remember ever seeing a dev post with an amarr character. Like seriously is there one even?
When they 'balance' things they probably do it with a non-amarr perspective, therefore. They balance out the other races and then amarr balancing is an afterthought.
Tbh its the only explanation I can think of for amarr being forgotten for the last two and a half years or so. As it stands we are a dying race, which not even a dev would chose to play with.. why would they?.... If you could chose any race you wanted and you knew that amarr sucked, cause well, you helped design the game.. then obviously playing with an amarr character would be silly. And so the buck just gets passed around..... "yeah we know Amarr need some ooomph.... we are looking into it" i.e.... "none of us really play amarr so its not really a priority. Kthxbye."
C/D? CCP
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Plutonian
Plutonian Shore
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Posted - 2007.11.10 03:01:00 -
[155]
We can argue and snipe each other, and eventually less and less people will visit the thread. It will finally drop into obscurity along with the rest of Boost Amarr threads. All time served here will be wasted, and the developers (which have asked for feedback and suggestions multiple times) will ignore it and make their own decisions.
But wouldn't it be nice if the players had some input into the process? And were able to suggest some changes which might actually resolve these issues? Change is going to occur one way or another... at least if some options are put forth some measure of control might be found.
Very few pilots are suggesting changes which might fix the problem. Are you telling me most Amarr pilots don't know what it would take to fix their own ships? That the majority can't suggest what should be done to a.) make them competitive while b.) not causing them to become so uber they must be nerfed 3 months down the road?
I find that hard to believe.
You can tell me Amarr is broken... and that doesn't fix a damn thing. You can speculate on the causes. You can prove it with solid, legitimate, unbiased data... hell, we can argue over bits of data forever if needed... and still that does not fix the problem.
Sofring Eternus seemed to have a great suggestion (Pg.5 of this thread, reply 129). It seems to solve the issues for all the Amarr T1 ships, and some of the T2 ships. I'm curious if it could have unforseen consequences, but can't seem to get a reply from the experts.
(It doesn't fix the HAC's, but that's why I asked what Amarr pilots thought could be done with them. Didn't get a response to that either.)
Perhaps my question should be: "Does anyone really want to fix this?"
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Nez Perces
Amarr Metatron Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 03:08:00 -
[156]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 10/11/2007 03:08:40
Originally by: Plutonian
Perhaps my question should be: "Does anyone really want to fix this?"
I believe the issue are obvious.
Lasers require very high pg.
Lasers require lots of cap.
EM damage does least damage of all damage types when taking base resistances into account and the fact that the omni-tank is so prevalent.
Dealing with any two of these issues would go a long way to solve the amarr problem..... but the exact technicalities of it only CCP can decide because they have all the data and have the best understanding of how any changes would affect the overall balance of the game.
Its not a complicated issue.. its an overlooked one... and therefore there is not a whole lot our suggestions can help. The devs know there is a problem, it just seems none of them can be bothered to look into it, perhaps for the reasons I outlined in my previous post... hell if I know.. maybe they are RP'ing it and making Amarr pay dearly for the attack on the jovians.
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Plutonian
Plutonian Shore
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Posted - 2007.11.10 03:19:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Nez Perces ... And by the choice of race/avatar, their perspective will be slanted towards one race or another, its human nature... [/i]
Not always. Otherwise why am I wasting time here when I run a Gallente and a Minmatar toon?
Brings up a good point though:
Every complaint and/or petition I read/hear (on forums, over TS, in day-to-day life, etc.) tends to go through a filter process in my brain, and end up in one of two categories.
There is "What Is Right" and then there is "What is Right For Me". Sadly, most of what I hear people say goes into the second category. Meaning their opinion is heavily influenced by their own personal desires. I guess there is nothing wrong with that... seems most of humanity is that way.
But when you're talking about game balance; well, I want a level playing field. If Amarr are gimped, then they should be fixed... even though I don't play Amarr (and apparently tend to get killed by them more often than not ).
I think things would run smoother if people stopped and examined if their demands/requests fall into the first category or the second.
Won't hold my breath on that though.
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Nez Perces
Amarr Metatron Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 03:26:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Plutonian
Not always. Otherwise why am I wasting time here when I run a Gallente and a Minmatar toon?
Well tbh it was just a possible explanation for the lack of Amarr love... mainly for the absence of a better one. I hope I am not right ofc
However, on the other thread raging here on this section, Rell's thread where are the devs *are* responding to questions... allow me to quote:
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
Originally by: Pheonix Kanan
Originally by: CCP Zulupark
I still think that the root of the problem is omni tanking and high natural EM resistances.
Does this mean that you plan to nerf omni tanks as well or just the natural armor resistance to EM damage?
It means we've identified the problem, we haven't started working on solutions.
It very much seems like the devs are aware of the problem with Amarr.. the next step is to obviously do something about it.. this is then a time/resource allocation problem with CCP. And like in any company running a business, they prioritise.
One has to wonder how far down that list of priorities amarr are?
And track record shows that since Amarr have been wallowing in mediocrity (and thats puttint it nicely) for a good couple of years now.. its not really that high. Which then brings you back to the real question... why is this?
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Corwain
Gallente Down In Flames
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Posted - 2007.11.10 03:27:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Felysta Sandorn To those arguing the credibility of the Dominix setup, I have a Gallente alt, and have flown that Dominix setup. It requires a lot of RCU to make it fit, but load it up with a shield tank, and it'll melt anyone it meets! A slightly more realistic setup is one with Ions, which still gives more DPS than the Armageddon with Mega Pulse lasers.
Then you should sell your gallente alt and go back to only playing Amarr. As you need a MWD and a cap booster on a blasterboat by default you now have 3 mids to shield tank with. Active tanking is pretty much out of the question at this point, so what...1 LSE II and 2 Invuln IIs? Not to mention to fit a shieldtank you're gonna run into worse CPU problems than the Mega has.
This is ignoring how much more useful you will be to the gang you're limited to flying in if you had less dps but some actual tank and tackle.
Mega does it much better with 50-100dps less but fielding an actual tank. No smart Domi pilot will be flying with anything but Electron Blaster Cannons on their Domi, and most use Medium blasters and fit for tank. The Domi is not a very damaging ship like you try to skew it to be.
You fail at flying Gallente, perhaps you fail at Amarr too and that is your problem? --
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Plutonian
Plutonian Shore
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Posted - 2007.11.10 03:39:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Nez Perces And track record shows that since Amarr have been wallowing in mediocrity (and thats putting it nicely) for a good couple of years now.. its not really that high. Which then brings you back to the real question... why is this?
Dude... they had to get Heat out. Don't you see how important Heat is to the game?
Seriously... who knows? I'm 99% certain they have bosses above them directing where time and effort is spent. And probably bosses over them.
Thank you for your clear-cut analysis of the problem. Having only trained Amarr frigates, I was in the dark on anything larger.
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Ray Beams
Under the Wings of Fury Atrocitas
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Posted - 2007.11.10 03:40:00 -
[161]
as a friendly reminder, until there is a change ammo for all guns option, the argument of swaping crystals instantly is not really true (right click and select ammo for 8 guns still is a big waste of time, in the end the gain of time is minimal)
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Nez Perces
Amarr Metatron Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 03:51:00 -
[162]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 10/11/2007 03:56:01
Originally by: Ray Beams as a friendly reminder, until there is a change ammo for all guns option, the argument of swaping crystals instantly is not really true (right click and select ammo for 8 guns still is a big waste of time, in the end the gain of time is minimal)
That whole argument is ******** anyhow... swapping crystals. Lmao.
In pvp you don't swap crystals that often..... you go into battle knowing pretty much what range you gonna be firing at. And then if you throw in lag, forget it. Changing crystals in pvp means you did something wrong already.
In pve, yeah swapping crystals/ammo comes into its own. However, its no good to you if you cannot break the tank of a rat that isn't blood raider/sansha for love nor money.
E.g I have a Navy Apoc, techII L guns, the works... and i can only kill sansha's and blood raiders with it. A 500k guristas rat or angel rat laughs in my face. All other races have a ship they can use to kill any rats. (gallente can whip out the dominix, caldari can choose their missiles, minmatar chose their projectiles) But no, not amarr, we have to suffer for our sins with lasers.
I'm doing missions for Amarr navy, 70% of the missions are killing guristas rats.
You know what the guns are that I most use on my ship.... yeah you guessed it 425 railguns.
An amarr navy apoc having to fit 425 railguns to do amarr navy missions is g0d**** heresy. Tbh since the emperor was assasinated its all been down hill.
[edit:typos]
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Plutonian
Plutonian Shore
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Posted - 2007.11.10 04:25:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Nez Perces All other races have a ship they can use to kill any rats. (gallente can whip out the dominix, caldari can choose their missiles, minmatar chose their projectiles) But no, not amarr, we have to suffer for our sins with lasers.
I'm doing missions for Amarr navy, 70% of the missions are killing guristas rats.
You know what the guns are that I most use on my ship.... yeah you guessed it 425 railguns.
An amarr navy apoc having to fit 425 railguns to do amarr navy missions is g0d**** heresy. Tbh since the emperor was assasinated its all been down hill.
Curious: What type of stats would you create for a crystal which would allow access to the other damage types? What ranges would it/they work in?
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Menkaure
Amarr Vanitas Corp.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 04:28:00 -
[164]
Nice research, summed up what alot of us were thinking nicely. Hope it gets some dev-love in some forum answers/ingame fixes.
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Nez Perces
Amarr Metatron Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 04:37:00 -
[165]
Edited by: Nez Perces on 10/11/2007 04:42:22
Originally by: Plutonian
Originally by: Nez Perces All other races have a ship they can use to kill any rats. (gallente can whip out the dominix, caldari can choose their missiles, minmatar chose their projectiles) But no, not amarr, we have to suffer for our sins with lasers.
I'm doing missions for Amarr navy, 70% of the missions are killing guristas rats.
You know what the guns are that I most use on my ship.... yeah you guessed it 425 railguns.
An amarr navy apoc having to fit 425 railguns to do amarr navy missions is g0d**** heresy. Tbh since the emperor was assasinated its all been down hill.
Curious: What type of stats would you create for a crystal which would allow access to the other damage types? What ranges would it/they work in?
The example I produced is just the tip of the iceberg. Its the most preposterous example I could think of.
Yeah so if Amarr could do another damage type somehow, like projectiles do... that would solve the problem. This is an internet fantasy/space game, so you have a lot of poetic licence so to speak, in regards to game mechanics.
Tbh if Amarr could do different damage by choosing different crystal types, similar to how minmatar can.. that would satisfy me.
Screw realism, its a game... the issue is that as an amarr pilot I should be able to do damage with maxed laser skills, other than just em/thermal. The other races can!! (or if not armour resistances in general need to have their em values reduced drastically)
And if you really wanted to have some semblance of realism.. you could have frequency crystals that are geared towards heating up certain material types to a temperature whereby you cause a chain reaction event of some kind.
For example... crystals that you shoot caldari ships with, crystals you shoot minmatar with, crystals you shoot gallente with. When they heat up the armour of the target ship (which is made of a material which the different races prefer to build their ships out of) to a certain temperature a chain reaction happens causing a percentage of explosive or kinetic damage.
Look I thought of that in 2 minutes.. surely CCP can do something of the kind.
[edit:clarity]
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Im Dumb
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Posted - 2007.11.10 04:47:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Plutonian We can argue and snipe each other, and eventually less and less people will visit the thread. It will finally drop into obscurity along with the rest of Boost Amarr threads. All time served here will be wasted, and the developers (which have asked for feedback and suggestions multiple times) will ignore it and make their own decisions.
But wouldn't it be nice if the players had some input into the process? And were able to suggest some changes which might actually resolve these issues? Change is going to occur one way or another... at least if some options are put forth some measure of control might be found.
Very few pilots are suggesting changes which might fix the problem. Are you telling me most Amarr pilots don't know what it would take to fix their own ships? That the majority can't suggest what should be done to a.) make them competitive while b.) not causing them to become so uber they must be nerfed 3 months down the road?
I find that hard to believe.
You can tell me Amarr is broken... and that doesn't fix a damn thing. You can speculate on the causes. You can prove it with solid, legitimate, unbiased data... hell, we can argue over bits of data forever if needed... and still that does not fix the problem.
Sofring Eternus seemed to have a great suggestion (Pg.5 of this thread, reply 129). It seems to solve the issues for all the Amarr T1 ships, and some of the T2 ships. I'm curious if it could have unforseen consequences, but can't seem to get a reply from the experts.
(It doesn't fix the HAC's, but that's why I asked what Amarr pilots thought could be done with them. Didn't get a response to that either.)
Perhaps my question should be: "Does anyone really want to fix this?"
1) Amarr ships with a - cap usage for lasers need to be turned into either + cap or + cap recharge. (a bonus just to use your weps is a sign of underpowerdness)
2) Lasers need to use less PG and CPU to make it fitable inline with all the other weps in the game. (try fitting a rack of tachs on anything)
3) Lasers need to do more damage. (omni tank + high EM therm on base resist is biase agains amarr)
4) Lasers need a cap usage reduction. (weps should be able to run with similar run times as other cap usage weps)
To the OP great post, we all know the probs with amarr but this really showes them on papper.
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Plutonian
Plutonian Shore
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Posted - 2007.11.10 05:26:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Nez Perces Yeah so if Amarr could do another damage type somehow, like projectiles do... that would solve the problem. This is an internet fantasy/space game, so you have a lot of poetic licence so to speak, in regards to game mechanics.
Tbh if Amarr could do different damage by choosing different crystal types, similar to how minmatar can.. that would satisfy me.
I'd have to agree with this... but there should be some limitations. Caldari can choose their damage type on missile boats. The rail-ships are stuck with kinetic and thermal. Gallente can choose their damage type by selecting appropriate drones, but note that not every ship features a Dominix-sized drone bay... when dealing with hybrids, they do only two damage types. Minmatar (who actually appear most free in this department) can choose their ammo type on all ships, but note the ammo has various restrictions in range and damage (EMP being the most damaging T1 and dealing 3 types of damage, but has the greatest range penalty).
Originally by: Nez Perces And if you really wanted to have some semblance of realism.. you could have frequency crystals that are geared towards heating up certain material types to a temperature whereby you cause a chain reaction event of some kind.
For example... crystals that you shoot caldari ships with, crystals you shoot minmatar with, crystals you shoot gallente with. When they heat up the armour of the target ship (which is made of a material which the different races prefer to build their ships out of) to a certain temperature a chain reaction happens causing a percentage of explosive or kinetic damage.
Look I thought of that in 2 minutes.. surely CCP can do something of the kind.
Actually, I wasn't seeking the techno-babble stuff made up to support the decisions (I call it fluff). You're absolutely right, that's easy to make up.
I was looking for numbers. For instance, a Microwave M crystal does 8 EM and 4 THERM damage, but has a -40 modifier to range and a -25 capacitor need bonus. What kind of stats would your crystal which allows kinetic damage have? What drawbacks?
I believe the key here is not to go crazy and create some monster of a crystal which will WTFBBQ everything out there; anything obviously overpowered will not only be dismissed by the developers, but also incur the wrath of non-Amarr pilots. So it has to fix the Amarr problem, without being overpowered.
The reason I ask this stuff is this: If a game plan which is acceptable to most of the community is created (a fix which Amarr, Minnie, Caldari, and Gallente pilots can agree is reasonable), and hard numbers are set forth (i.e., replace so-and-so crystal which never had any real use with this crystal which as so-and-so stats), and then this proposal is packaged up and submitted to the developers as a possible solution/starting point... well, that has a far greater chance of getting the problem fixed than simply stating "Cap use should be lower on beams."
I honestly don't know if the devs would listen... but it stands a better chance than just proclaiming 'this is broken'.
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.11.10 05:58:00 -
[168]
Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 10/11/2007 06:05:52
Originally by: Corwain The Domi is not a very damaging ship like you try to skew it to be.
You fail at flying Gallente, perhaps you fail at Amarr too and that is your problem?
From the Ships section on the forums I pulled the following builds:
Armageddon: Hi û 7 x Megapulse-II w/Multifrequency Crystal Mid û 3 x Cap Recharger-II Low û 1 x LAR-II 3 x Active Hardeners 3 x Heatsink-II Drones û 5 x Ogre-II
Effective Hitpoints û 41,418 Total DPS û 1,060 Volley Damage û 2,417 Cap Lasts: 3 minutes 17 seconds Top Speed: 156 m/s Align Time: 16.4 seconds Sensor Strength: 17 Scan Resolution: 137.5 Range (Optimal+Falloff): 15+10
Dominix: Hi- 6 x Ion Blaster-II w/Antimatter Mid- 1 x 100mn AB-II 4 x Cap Recharger-II Low- 1 x LAR-II 2 x Energized Adaptive Nano 1 x Damage Control Unit-II 1 x Reactor Control Unit-II 2 x Magnetic Field Stabilizer-II Drones 5 x Ogre-II (note the Dominix can carry 3 full sets of heavies/sentries/EWàmix and match as you like)
Effective Hitpoints û 55,788 Total DPS û 1,044 Volley Damage û 2,297 Cap Lasts: 3 minutes 39 seconds (assuming AB is running) or 7 minutes 17 seconds (assuming AB is off) Top Speed: 395 m/s Align Time: 23.1 seconds w/AB on or 15.7 seconds with AB off Sensor Strength: 22 Scan Resolution: 112.5 Range (Optimal + Falloff): 3.8+10
The Armageddon versus the Dominix we see the Arma has the best DPS but only barely edges out the Dominix in that category (and that is using the highest DPS lasers versus the second tier lasers for the Dominix). For that the Dominix gets better tank, faster speed, harder to jam, can shoot its guns a lot longer and, not least by a long shot, can have three full sets of heavies to play with (EW, DPS, Sentryàwhatever). Dominix wins here hands downànot even close really.
Range? The Domi can put its drones on the Arma immediately and will spend at max 1 minute closing range where the Arma can get free shots. If the Domi throws webber drones can be faster still. Once the Domi is in range it is all over for the Arma.
More to the point though the Domi is a VASTLY more flexible ship. Don't like the build above? Lots of things you can do to change it. Mix up your drones. Put EW in mids. Go for more gank or more tank. Maybe a pile of Neuts high and let the drones eat the enemy alive when their cap breaks. The Arma is a one trick pony (as are most Amarr laserboats). It is not going to have a MWD on it and even an AB hurts badly to run. It is not going to have EW. It is not going to suprise you with different drones (sentrys or EW drones). It is not going to keep unloading drones as you kill them.
Domi beats the Arma handily in pretty much every category.
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Sofring Eternus
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.10 06:33:00 -
[169]
Thank you for the nod Plutonian, I'm going to repost the idea here, as well as some idea's I've had in another thread:
Quote: Duplicate exactly the hybrid stats, then double the cap use and range of blasters, and double the cap use and double(tracking/rof etc) of rails.
Thus Amarr arent fighting for the DPS spot of Gallente, the 50% cap use bonus is still good. And the guns are unique without having so many drawbacks.
**Note: Would still need to adjust the CPU and PowerGrid usages such that the Lasers use 35% more grid than their Hybrid counterpart, and 15% less CPU.
Quote: I would like to make it so that each Amarr T1 ship only has as many high slots as it has turret slots. -then move spare high slots to mid until they they have up to 4 mids -once they have 4 mids move remaining spare highs to lows. (cruiser or smaller ships could have 3 mids to keep amarr flavor if needed)
These "extra" low slots will allow: More RCU / PDU to help with beam fitting or cap use. Or more Heat sinks for Pulse ganking. Or more Plates / EANM / Hardners for much better tanking.
Quote: ALTERNATELY: Make 10% to Energy weapon cap use == 10% to all module cap use. This allows us to utilize that extra high on Neuts that will have a nice bonus, and also help out with armor tanking. (Might even help with MWDs to a great extent)
None of the ideas are very elegant, but then again the Amarr are not a very elegant people. From the EvE Chronicles: Progress is a term alien to the Amarrians. ItÆs almost like this huge empire was built on pure coincidence and luck. But once you get to know their intricate system you get the feeling that theyÆre like this great big beast trudging heedlessly onwards, trampling any opposition. Their advancements are not by leaps and bounds, but rather through deliberate and articulate planning that can span decades, even centuries.
--- ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ |
Nez Perces
Amarr Metatron Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 06:52:00 -
[170]
Originally by: EVE chronicles Their advancements are not by leaps and bounds, but rather through deliberate and articulate planning that can span decades, even centuries.
Unfortunately CCP seem to be taking this description literally.
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Sofring Eternus
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.10 07:18:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Nez Perces
Originally by: EVE chronicles Their advancements are not by leaps and bounds, but rather through deliberate and articulate planning that can span decades, even centuries.
Unfortunately CCP seem to be taking this description literally.
I wish, the opposite of leaps and bounds would be lots and lots of small steps. Having seen no steps for so long, the only way to meet the century timeline would require a MWD assisted leap --- ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ |
pershphanie
Deadly Addiction
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Posted - 2007.11.10 07:18:00 -
[172]
/signed
Everyone knows amarr is completely broken, the question is what to do about it.
Here is my "final solution" to the "amarr problem".
There are so many small problems that it's hard to fix them all with out breaking something else.
1) The only damage types available to Amarr happen to be the most tanked types. EM and Thermal are the only dmg types available due to logic. You can't really do kinetic or explosive damage with a beam of light.
Solution: Switch hybrids to a kinetic/explosive damage combo resulting in people diversifying their tank setups. Sounds odd. But makes sense. Benefits both amarr and gallente really but also makes caldari more resistant to gallente damage types. Makes sense from an RP standpoint. Might balance out the game better.
2) Amarr is the "cap race" yet on most amarr ships cap is the biggest negative about them in one way or another. Amarr has the only weapon systems that require a bonus to effectively use them(10% to reduced cap use for energy weapons). Since no other race needs a bonus to use its weapon systems it's means Amarr ships get one less bonus than any other ship. On the ships without this bonus it means they have to divert more slots to cap mods than any other ship. Either way, Amarr gets unfairly screwed.
Solutions: a) Exaggerate the supposed weaknesses of other races. Reduce the tracking on projectiles, range on hybrids, and either ROF or CPU needs for missiles. ex - minmatar ships would need either a tracking bonus or a tracking mods to be effective at all. If Amarr ships can't be effective unless you address their weaknesses why should other races?
b) boost cap recharge on amarr ships making "the cap race" a strength rather than a weakness. Boost it enough so the "10% reduced cap use for lasers" bonus is no longer needed. This would finally give amarr ships some much needed flexibility on its setups. Also would allow us to get rid of that nonbonus and replace it with real bonuses. Maybe then the apoc would no longer be the most boring ship in eve.
3) This one is simple. Tweak the dmg output and on lasers so they do more DPS than projectiles. Projectiles are supposed to have greater alpha strike abilities and lasers should do more DPS. Blaster boats are almost always drone ships as well so lasers should do more dps than blasters alone. Blasters + drones should still out damage lasers. A bit more tracking on lasers wouldn't be terrible either.
Why some or all of these things have not been done yet is beyond me. It's not a question of whether or not these things should be done, it's just a question of how much boosting needs to happen. ------>PҼſϚի<------
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Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.11.10 07:32:00 -
[173]
Originally by: pershphanie You can't really do kinetic or explosive damage with a beam of light.
Apparently CCP just hates comparisons to real life but whether they like it or not there is an energy weapon that does kinetic damage. It's called a Particle Beam and was invented in 1958.
Point being there is a perfectly acceptable ENERGY weapon which are the Amarr thing that actually does kinetic damage.
That and there really in no such thing as EM damage from a laser...should all be thermal but whatever. We must bow to the make believe gods.
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Arthur Frayn
Veterans Of Liberation Ltd.
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Posted - 2007.11.10 08:29:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Arthur Frayn on 10/11/2007 08:31:02
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Originally by: pershphanie You can't really do kinetic or explosive damage with a beam of light.
Apparently CCP just hates comparisons to real life but whether they like it or not there is an energy weapon that does kinetic damage. It's called a Particle Beam and was invented in 1958.
Dude, that's an ion/electron/neutron blaster. Except instead of a solid stream of particles, blasters in eve contain them in magnetic fields..
-- Eve needs a dose of Top Gun without the sweaty shower scenes. |
Imperator Jora'h
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Posted - 2007.11.10 08:52:00 -
[175]
Originally by: Arthur Frayn Dude, that's an ion/electron/neutron blaster. Except instead of a solid stream of particles, blasters in eve contain them in magnetic fields..
Blasters shoot a "ball" of subatomic particles. A particle beam shoots, well, a beam...like a laser.
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Titus Lewis
Viziam
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:34:00 -
[176]
Signed.
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Tenebrys
Promethean Industries R0ADKILL
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Posted - 2007.11.10 09:52:00 -
[177]
Signed.
From the day I first started looking at Amarr ships and their capabilities, I knew that something was horribly, horribly wrong. Amarr have no advantages over other races at present -- though boy do their lasers suck against everybody's favorite Minmatar HAC, the Vagabond.
Fun. Six pages without any love from the devs. Wonder how long this'll go on...
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Shevar
Minmatar A.W.M Ka-Tet
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:02:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime Amarr use lasers.
Ships are made of metal.
Laser bounces off metal.
Laser does less damage.
Where is the problem with that ? At least Amarr ships tank armor damage like there is no tomorrow. An Minmatar get
:+15m/s speed bonus .... : NO 10 second reload (insta crystal switch on range/dmg/type) : NO reload (unless you have to) : NO need to carry ammo
Go fly a flimsy Minmatar ship, with mixed projectile/missile/speed bonuses, and then say that Amarr are nerfed.
Its like saying Ravens are no use when you do Caldari missions.
Wut better tanking?
Tanking is for a large part based on the amount of cap available. And quite frankly when firing your lasers then amarr suddenly become the worst cap race (with the exception of the khanid t2 ships). ---
-The only real drug problem is scoring real good drugs |
NUKUNNI TRADING
Amarr Antares Frontier The Fifth Race
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:37:00 -
[179]
Cap: Broken Laser Damage: Broken Laser Range: Broken - Outranged by all other races snipers Tanking: Broken by Broken Cap Damage Sustainability: Broken by Broken Cap Damage inflicting ability: Broken by compulsory primarily EM output Tracking on Long range weapons: Broken Recons: Broken by Nos Nerf - I mean LOL... WTF? EW: Broken by having the fewest mids of all races
Amarr, a proud race, consigned to the dustbin of Eve history
Still the Sac in alright, once you get within 15km
Signed, Signed and Signed - Come on CCP, wake the **** up
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Kagura Nikon
Minmatar MASS HOMICIDE Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2007.11.10 11:42:00 -
[180]
Originally by: NUKUNNI TRADING Cap: Broken Laser Damage: Broken Laser Range: Broken - Outranged by all other races snipers Tanking: Broken by Broken Cap Damage Sustainability: Broken by Broken Cap Damage inflicting ability: Broken by compulsory primarily EM output Tracking on Long range weapons: Broken Recons: Broken by Nos Nerf - I mean LOL... WTF? EW: Broken by having the fewest mids of all races
Amarr, a proud race, consigned to the dustbin of Eve history
Still the Sac in alright, once you get within 15km
Signed, Signed and Signed - Come on CCP, wake the **** up
ammar have the BEST long range tracking!!! People need to learn to check stats before propagating myths like beams have poor trackign and pulse have good tracking.
If brute force doesn't solve your problem... you are not using enough |
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