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RossP Zoyka
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Posted - 2007.11.15 03:12:00 -
[361]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Originally by: Kash Ka Edited by: Kash Ka on 15/11/2007 02:05:23 /signed
I have complained about how amarr suck in local and corp chat, but i never really could back up my points. Untill now thank you.
I would also like to mention that amarr are ment to have some decent frigs, and i myself love to fly AF's because the amarr cruisers suck so bad. Every time i fight another cruiser in a AF i loose but isnt the AF ment to be able to take out cruisers i mean the HAC's can easily kill BS's, well the mimatar and gallente ones anyway.
Amarr need to be looked at, decrease cap use, increase thermal dmg, decrease em resists on every ship or increase the bonuses, hell add new crystals that let us do more than just em and thermal. Please CCP give amarr a break!
EDIT: typos
No AF will kill a cruiser pilot of equal competence.
And the vengeance is leet, learn how to fly it. As is the malediction.
And the crusader....
Don't mess with Amarr interceptors
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Sofring Eternus
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.15 07:35:00 -
[362]
Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04 Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II
Heavy Pulse Laser II x7 Medium Nosferatu II
Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443 Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so) Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger
Edit: That was in response to post 354. --- ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ Amarr dont need Grr... and RAWR is definately too much, but some Oomph would be nice. |
MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong Namtz'aar k'in
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Posted - 2007.11.15 07:39:00 -
[363]
Originally by: Sofring Eternus Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04 Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II
Heavy Pulse Laser II x7 Medium Nosferatu II
Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443 Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so) Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger
Edit: That was in response to post 354.
please add the base amor em resistance on the hurricane plus an active harderner, the all reisitances type.
now do the same to the other damage type. Official fanboy of jenny< pink supporter! looking to work in the art department with CCP, 3 years and counting. http://www.digipen.edu/main/Gallery_Games_2004#Narbacular_Dropthi |
Gamer Maximus
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Posted - 2007.11.15 08:13:00 -
[364]
Originally by: Sofring Eternus Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04 Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II
Heavy Pulse Laser II x7 Medium Nosferatu II
Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443 Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so) Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger
Edit: That was in response to post 354.
You need to take into account the other ships setup; what if you were webbed and the hurricane was loaded with Heavy Missles and Arty Cannons? How about the diffrence in speed cuasing a general lowering of DPS on the hurricane? Seriously people, take into account how the other ship is used before making points like this, as this is totaly irrelevent.
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Khes
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Posted - 2007.11.15 08:28:00 -
[365]
Thanks to OPs intital comparison, now we see that CALDARI need a DPS BOOST.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.15 08:47:00 -
[366]
Originally by: Sofring Eternus Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04 Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II
Heavy Pulse Laser II x7 Medium Nosferatu II
Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443 Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so) Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger
Edit: That was in response to post 354.
Is this a joke?
800mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Medium Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Gyrostabilizer II
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Warp Disruptor II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Medium Capacitor Booster II
220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II
[empty rig slot] [empty rig slot] [empty rig slot]
626 DPS, 45,000 hit points, a repair unit, STILL faster than that harbinger, better damage types, variable damage types, faster drones.
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.15 10:07:00 -
[367]
Harbinger the worst tier2 BC. It is recognized even by those who does not see "amarr problem". Could someone compare tier1 BC or tier2-3 cruisers?
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GoddessHekate
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Posted - 2007.11.15 10:21:00 -
[368]
Nice DPS stats there but have you taken into account that Amarr do not have to reload? Every other race wastes 10 seconds reloading and the reactivation time every time the guns are empty, in which time the Amarr ships can fire off 1-2 more rounds.
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Cursus Publicus
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.15 10:40:00 -
[369]
Even though I'm just starting the game, I've been sticking to amarrian ships and will stick to them in future too, despite seeing the slight differences already in frigates. The ship I'm interested in the most is the Providence freighter for the looks anyway.
One thing confuses me though. I've always wondered about the damage crystals in the lasers of amarr ships. Sure, most of is is supposed to be electromagnetic but why the heck does infrared crystal have "EM damage slightly increased" when IR radiation is supposed to be pure thermal radiation for all that I know. Same thing with at least microwave and gamma radiation too. MW is basically supposed to accelerate the atoms it's affecting resulting in increased heat on the object, and gamma radiation ionizes target atoms (EM damage) but in the game they pretty much do the opposite things.
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Hardin
Amarr Mournival Holdings Mournival Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:14:00 -
[370]
Edited by: Hardin on 15/11/2007 11:16:30 I wasn't going to post this here as it's not an Amarrian problem but higher authorities think I should
Stop the whining. Be Amarrian and be proud!
Why choose Amarrian:
Exclusivity - join EVE's most exclusive club
EVE's coolest looking ships.
The best pound for pound battleship in the game (Armageddon)
EVE's coolest ship names -Damnation / Apoclaypse / Armageddon / Curse (wtf is a thorax after all?)
The coolest people are Amarrian - Stavros / Sir Molle - to name just two
The most powerful RP alliance in EVE is Amarrian (CVA)
You can own slaves legally
If you do get pwned you have a ready made excuse :p
The oldest still active corp in EVE is Amarr only (PIE Inc.)
Amarrians don't sleep - we wait.
You get the chance to wear cool robes and hoods.
One day the 'Reclaiming' will begin and then the heretics will be sorry.
We haven't got an Emperor but we still rule half the galaxy. Suck on that slaves!
Lasers rock and look pretty.
Amarrians don't wear watches. We decide what time it is.
Amarr Victor!
------------------------------
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Lucre
STK Scientific Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:22:00 -
[371]
Excellent analysis, and (as a mostly Amarr-spec'd Gallente!) signed with feeling.
Sadly the only Amarr problem CCP seem to have got around to fixing in the last 2 years or so is finally allowing us to mention the Damnation here without censoring it every time! (I hope!)
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Oki Riverson
Amarr Pre-nerfed Tactics SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:26:00 -
[372]
I'm Amarrian spec'd. And it feels completely inflexible.
/me Signed.
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Goumindong
Amarr Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:27:00 -
[373]
OP needs to rename thread "Amarr Internment Camp"
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Dristra
Amarr Shadows of the Dead Aftermath Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:27:00 -
[374]
Originally by: PeacefullNub Harbinger the worst tier2 BC. It is recognized even by those who does not see "amarr problem". Could someone compare tier1 BC or tier2-3 cruisers?
Actually the harby can readly be compared to the brutix, and you will find out that the harby is easier to fit, and that is about it...
It's great being Amarr isn't it.
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Lucre
STK Scientific Black-Out
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:29:00 -
[375]
Originally by: GoddessHekate Nice DPS stats there but have you taken into account that Amarr do not have to reload? Every other race wastes 10 seconds reloading and the reactivation time every time the guns are empty, in which time the Amarr ships can fire off 1-2 more rounds.
I've seen this argument a lot over the years, but truth is that lasers have such lousy falloff that we probably spend more time changing crystals with changing range than other races spend reloading. (And no, it's *not* instantaneous either!)
And any logistic advantage in not needing to carry ammo is probably more than counterbalanced by the extra cost (especially if the ship is lost) of one or more sets of crystals against a typical load of ammo.
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N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:35:00 -
[376]
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: GoddessHekate Nice DPS stats there but have you taken into account that Amarr do not have to reload? Every other race wastes 10 seconds reloading and the reactivation time every time the guns are empty, in which time the Amarr ships can fire off 1-2 more rounds.
I've seen this argument a lot over the years, but truth is that lasers have such lousy falloff that we probably spend more time changing crystals with changing range than other races spend reloading. (And no, it's *not* instantaneous either!)
And any logistic advantage in not needing to carry ammo is probably more than counterbalanced by the extra cost (especially if the ship is lost) of one or more sets of crystals against a typical load of ammo.
I always thought a nice boost to Amarr (and other races to a lesser extent) would be to include a 'Reload all with <ammotype>' function to the guns rightclick menu.
This would mean Amarr can change crystals as fast as possible, so they can actually complete a switch quickly enough to keep up with the low falloff of lasers.
It would make things MUCH better with regards to T2 crystals and that annoying bug where turrets STEAL crystals from eachother.
Finally it would probably reduce lag because the server recieves one 'Reload all with <ammoType>' command instead of up to 8 individual reload requests.
I suggested this idea several times on the game development forums, but it never recieved dev input.
============================================
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Bentula
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:37:00 -
[377]
Edited by: Bentula on 15/11/2007 11:44:45
Originally by: Cursus Publicus Even though I'm just starting the game, I've been sticking to amarrian ships and will stick to them in future too, despite seeing the slight differences already in frigates. The ship I'm interested in the most is the Providence freighter for the looks anyway.
One thing confuses me though. I've always wondered about the damage crystals in the lasers of amarr ships. Sure, most of is is supposed to be electromagnetic but why the heck does infrared crystal have "EM damage slightly increased" when IR radiation is supposed to be pure thermal radiation for all that I know. Same thing with at least microwave and gamma radiation too. MW is basically supposed to accelerate the atoms it's affecting resulting in increased heat on the object, and gamma radiation ionizes target atoms (EM damage) but in the game they pretty much do the opposite things.
If we go by logik lasers should deal explosive damage. Cause you know, they heat a small area up in a very fast way, one could even say they turn that area into a plasma. Things that heat up expand, and if something that is surrounded by solid matter starts to expand very fast ... that is called a explosion, and a ugly one at that due to the debris of the solid matter rapidly advancing away from the center of the area the expansion started.
P.S. No you cant reproduce that effect with a magnifying glass and some sunshine .
Edit: But an egg and a microwave ... that should illustrate the point somewhat.
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Brianna Talnor
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:42:00 -
[378]
Originally by: N1fty Edited by: N1fty on 15/11/2007 11:40:03
Originally by: Lucre
Originally by: GoddessHekate Nice DPS stats there but have you taken into account that Amarr do not have to reload? Every other race wastes 10 seconds reloading and the reactivation time every time the guns are empty, in which time the Amarr ships can fire off 1-2 more rounds.
I've seen this argument a lot over the years, but truth is that lasers have such lousy falloff that we probably spend more time changing crystals with changing range than other races spend reloading. (And no, it's *not* instantaneous either!)
And any logistic advantage in not needing to carry ammo is probably more than counterbalanced by the extra cost (especially if the ship is lost) of one or more sets of crystals against a typical load of ammo.
I always thought a nice boost to Amarr (and other races to a lesser extent) would be to include a 'Reload all with <ammotype>' function to the guns rightclick menu.
This would mean Amarr can change crystals as fast as possible, so they can actually complete a switch quickly enough to keep up with the low falloff of lasers.
It would make things MUCH better with regards to T2 crystals and that annoying bug where turrets STEAL crystals from eachother.
Finally it would probably reduce lag because the server recieves one 'Reload all with <ammoType>' command instead of up to 8 individual reload requests.
I suggested this idea several times on the game development forums, but it never recieved dev input.
EDIT: Found some linkage to my posts:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=505299
I also had an idea about module grouping, I think CCP might be bringing something like this in, not sure.
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=542094
I may be way off but reloading all ammo at once is coming in the next expansion. I swear I read it in a dev post.
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BobMoo22
Yarrrateers
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:43:00 -
[379]
I stopped reading after I saw that you calculated the dps of the hype with 3 Mag Stabs. The hype has a total of 6 lowslots. Filling up half of those with mag stabs is simply ********. Sure, your arguments look good on paper, but they would get popped in half a second in actual combat.
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N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.11.15 11:45:00 -
[380]
Originally by: Brianna Talnor I may be way off but reloading all ammo at once is coming in the next expansion. I swear I read it in a dev post.
Yeah I think they are bringing in module grouping. But maybe we should remind them about it incase they 'forget'... ============================================
Reload all with <AmmoType> |
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.15 12:46:00 -
[381]
Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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NoobALTS
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Posted - 2007.11.15 12:54:00 -
[382]
Edited by: NoobALTS on 15/11/2007 12:54:55
Originally by: Rodj Blake Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate.
Well, I guess that could be proof that whoever designed Amarr could not be bothered to finish them!
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Hydrogen
Art of War
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Posted - 2007.11.15 13:05:00 -
[383]
/signed
Had fun reading some of those replies here... __
- click here - |
Sofring Eternus
Amarr
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Posted - 2007.11.15 13:27:00 -
[384]
Originally by: MotherMoon
Originally by: Sofring Eternus ...
please add the base amor em resistance on the hurricane plus an active harderner, the all reisitances type.
now do the same to the other damage type.
Like I said, I was using the setups provided in the previous post, which used 3 active hardners for KIN/THR/EXP. And there is no such thing as an all resistances active armor hardner. The kill time I provided assumes 75% resist for the Hurricane against all Harbinger damage (when the shield and the hull will actually have less). The kill time for the Hurricane assumed only 50% resist for all the Harbinger hitpoints.(again, shield will have more EXP resist, and hull will have 60% from DCUII)
Originally by: Gamer Maximus
Originally by: Sofring Eternus ...
You need to take into account the other ships setup; what if you were webbed and the hurricane was loaded with Heavy Missles and Arty Cannons? How about the diffrence in speed cuasing a general lowering of DPS on the hurricane? Seriously people, take into account how the other ship is used before making points like this, as this is totaly irrelevent.
I did take into account the other ships setup. They key parts about optimal and falloff mean if the Harbinger can keep the Hurricane at 10km then it will severely reduce incoming damage since that puts the Hurricane at almost double falloff (reducing DPS to 25% of EFT), while only half falloff for the Harbinger (reducing DPS to 75% of EFT).
@Goumindong Yes I know there are better setups, and I'm pretty sure you can figure out a better fit than I can most any day of the week. It just annoyed me that the Harbinger was setup for dual reps, when that really isnt feasable for Amarr ships, they just dont have the spare cap to run them. Dual reps are for ships with rep bonus or capless weapons (drones/missiles/projectiles) IMO. --- ΞνΞ ΘΠLІΠΞ Amarr dont need Grr... and RAWR is definately too much, but some Oomph would be nice. |
N1fty
Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2007.11.15 14:32:00 -
[385]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate.
Yes and lets not forget about the awesome skinning job done on the Apoc. I wonder if the Trinity Apoc still retains that 'feature'. Not that anyone will notice; nobody uses Apoc's.
Overall Amarr feel a bit forgotten, a little neglected. Bit of a polish, a minor tweak here and there, might be fit for public consumption ============================================
Reload all with <AmmoType> |
Rikeka
Amarr Eye of God O X I D E
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Posted - 2007.11.15 14:48:00 -
[386]
/signed
The Devs are escaped Minmatar refugees or something... Why the hate? BTW, to people who point out about the Malediction/Vengueance (bah, all Khanid ships), they are not Amarr, they are Khanid, lol (sorry, had to say it)
Jokes aside, those ships don`t rely on lasers, thus they don`t suck! Had I known Khanids were going to rely on missiles, I would have trained some when I started the game! CCP totally hates Amarr, dude.
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Felysta Sandorn
Caldari System-Lords Insurgency
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Posted - 2007.11.15 15:39:00 -
[387]
Originally by: Sofring Eternus Edited by: Sofring Eternus on 15/11/2007 07:37:04 Damage Control II Reactor Control Unit II Adaptive Nano Plating II Adaptive Nano Plating II Heat Sink II 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
10MN MicroWarpdrive II Stasis Webifier II Warp Disruptor II Medium Capacitor Booster II
Heavy Pulse Laser II x7 Medium Nosferatu II
Has 42k effective HP compared to the Hurricanes 40k Does 612 DPS compared to the Hurricanes 443 Optimal of 7.5km compared to Hurricanes 1.5km both have 5km falloff Would take the Harbinger 115s to kill Hurricane (repping adds another 20s or so) Would take the Hurricane 190s to kill Harbinger
Edit: That was in response to post 354.
That's comparing a gank setup with a tank setup. The following is a good Hurricane gank setup:
Highs: 6x 425mm AC II Mids: 10mn MWD II, Medium Cap Booster II, Warp Disruptor II, Stasis Webifier II Lows: 2x Gyro II, 2x EANM II, DC II, 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plate
DPS: 621 (With drones and t2 ammo) Speed: 227/1382 Resists: 85/67.6/62.6/55.1 Armour Hitpoints: 12221 Effective Total Hitpoints: 58,259
Fitting: 451.5/500 CPU, 1668.6/1687.5 PG
Pros: More effective hitpoints, higher resists, higher DPS, no cap needed for guns, loads of free CPU, still faster than the Harbinger.
Cons: Less range (negated by higher speed), omni-tank worstens Amarr (a pro for the ship, but a con for Amarr).
You can also swap the 1600 plate for an 800, giving 49,356 effective hitpoints (still WAY more than the Harbinger), and put on a medium NOS. Similarly, if you take the plate off altogether and change the EANMs to active hardeners (making the lows: 2x Gyro II, 3x Active Hardener II, DC II), you get 43,301 effective hitpoints (STILL more than the Harbinger), allowing you to fit two medium Diminishing NOS, putting the cap-drain power above that of the Harbinger as well.
So this way, the Hurricane has more hitpoints, a higher DPS, more NOS power, better resists, and no cap need for guns, compared to the Harbinger which is worse on every single account.
Also, with a gank Hurricane, the only things that needs cap are the MWD, Scrambler, Webifier, and Hardeners (if you choose that setup)... If you so choose, you can drop the cap booster for another EW mod. More versatility, where the Harbinger has none.
Latest Video, Click Here!
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2007.11.15 16:24:00 -
[388]
Originally by: Rodj Blake Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate.
My God, that's nearly as long as they have been waiting for their new Emperor. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
RisenPhoenix
Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.11.15 17:33:00 -
[389]
/signed ------------------------------------------------
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.15 20:10:00 -
[390]
"Let's not forget that the Amarr are still waiting after over four years for their sixth T1 frigate." Whell - after four years i think we deserve tier4 BS or at least tier4 BC. About Khanid MC2 - they are not amarr ships - as someone sayed - no amarr without lasershow :) If we whant missiles - we will play caldary. For me this "boost" nefred unique amarr style for 2/3 of t2 ships. it is an example of "bad fixing" - instead of fixing lasers and laser related ship bonuses they just remove lasers from t2 ships
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