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Haradgrim
Caldari The Wild Bunch INTERDICTION
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Posted - 2007.11.15 20:29:00 -
[391]
Felysta, I would love to see an analysis of why Caldari are better in any respect than amar with the exception of the Flycatcher and Crow?
I'm not saying that to troll, all I mean to illustrate is that there are two "have" races in EVE and there are two "have-not" races, the only differences is Caldari can mission run really well (and in my opinion the arguement that a specific race was meant specifically for PVE or that it would be a sufficient advantage is rediculously idioctic IMHO)
All this thread proved to me is that Amarr are the second worst off race in EVE (PVP wise)
I can't remember who it is but there is someone who has a sig that I thought sums it up best:
(this is a close aproximation at best:)
EVE Online: Gallente for PWN online Minmatar for PVP online Caldari for PVE online Amarr for LULZ online.
Your signature exceeds the byte me limit allowed on the forums-Darth Patches Oh Noes!
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NoobALTS
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Posted - 2007.11.15 20:35:00 -
[392]
Originally by: PeacefullNub
If we whant missiles - we will play caldary. For me this "boost" nefred unique amarr style for 2/3 of t2 ships. it is an example of "bad fixing" - instead of fixing lasers and laser related ship bonuses they just remove lasers from t2 ships
CCP are never going to fix their goddam Lasers. Thankfully missiles take only a couple of weeks to train up to a reasonable value. Now I think that they should turn ships such as the apoc into a torp boat, and get rid of useless weapons such as lasers once and forall and refund the lost SP back to amarr players
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DroneBay Diva
Kandor Fleet Systems VENOM Alliance
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Posted - 2007.11.16 09:54:00 -
[393]
Originally by: NoobALTS
Originally by: PeacefullNub
If we whant missiles - we will play caldary. For me this "boost" nefred unique amarr style for 2/3 of t2 ships. it is an example of "bad fixing" - instead of fixing lasers and laser related ship bonuses they just remove lasers from t2 ships
CCP are never going to fix their goddam Lasers. Thankfully missiles take only a couple of weeks to train up to a reasonable value. Now I think that they should turn ships such as the apoc into a torp boat, and get rid of useless weapons such as lasers once and forall and refund the lost SP back to amarr players
This seems likely to happen
But still....I'm at 20m SP currently, all of it Gallente spec'd, and I'll agree that CCP needs to do something to fix Amarr ships. And forcing Amarr pilots to train a 2nd weapons system in order to be able to effectively fly half of their t2 ships was pretty dumb...
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Galan Amarias
Amarr Vendetta Underground Rule of Three
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Posted - 2007.11.16 10:16:00 -
[394]
This thread made me sad.
The answer to empire ganking |
Torco
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Posted - 2007.11.16 12:53:00 -
[395]
Edited by: Torco on 16/11/2007 12:53:19 mhhh I dont know if the DEVS recognize that EVE-Players actually care much more about balancing issues than ambulation or other cosmetic stuff. I think this thread should be a proof. Why for gods sake are you not going to change anything on those beautiful amarr ships? I dont get it. *sigh*
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Formulka
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Posted - 2007.11.16 13:20:00 -
[396]
maybe they are letting all amarr laser ships suck, even the new ones just because there is some major buff comming for lasers and they dont want so many overpowered ships afer that buff (well most likely not, but its the only reasonable excuse for all that ignorance from DEVs)
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NoobALTS
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Posted - 2007.11.16 13:26:00 -
[397]
Edited by: NoobALTS on 16/11/2007 13:26:17
Originally by: Formulka maybe they are letting all amarr laser ships suck, even the new ones just because there is some major buff comming for lasers and they dont want so many overpowered ships afer that buff (well most likely not, but its the only reasonable excuse for all that ignorance from DEVs)
Well, I think it is because the whole concept of Lasers is broken, and nobody can be bothered to fix it. The strange thing is, Amarr BS's are very balanced if you use Minmatar weapons on them and if the ship bonus's were changed to Projectile bonus's, then Amarr would be a on a par with other races
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Min Seong
Amarr Ministry of War
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Posted - 2007.11.16 14:02:00 -
[398]
This thread makes me sad. I wish CCP would reply to this thread with thier plan for balancing Amarr.
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Alexace
Gallente Bright New Dawn Artificial Intelligence.
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Posted - 2007.11.16 14:58:00 -
[399]
Lasers are broke, please fix them, and the rest of the Amarr line.
Fix laser cap use, then give us a "real" second bonus. BOOST AMARR!!!!!!!!!!!
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Khes
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Posted - 2007.11.16 15:24:00 -
[400]
Originally by: Haradgrim Felysta, I would love to see an analysis of why Caldari are better in any respect than amar with the exception of the Flycatcher and Crow?
I'm not saying that to troll, all I mean to illustrate is that there are two "have" races in EVE and there are two "have-not" races, the only differences is Caldari can mission run really well (and in my opinion the arguement that a specific race was meant specifically for PVE or that it would be a sufficient advantage is rediculously idioctic IMHO)
All this thread proved to me is that Amarr are the second worst off race in EVE (PVP wise)
/signed
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shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.11.16 22:12:00 -
[401]
Edited by: shinsushi on 16/11/2007 22:13:18 Why is this thread dying anyway?? oh, needs fuel. OK..
How about this. After one year of whining, we got this reply:
Originally by: Tuxford 9 months ago For me there are number of problems that plague Amarr.....omni tank.....we might consider fiddling with base resistances....beams are too hard to fit....General ship loving....cruisers aren't really.....Apocalypse might get a bit of a role twist
Then this:
Originally by: Fendahl 5 months ago tracking on Pulse Lasers has been increased by 25%...........the power need of Medium Beam lasers have been reduced (from 16mw to 13mw for Tech 2)............rmor hardeners have been decreased (from 44tf to 36tf for Tech 2) and Energized Adaptive Nano Membranes have been increased (from 30tf to 36tf for Tech 2)
The pulse boost worked, the rest didn't do a whole lot, and didn't address tuxfords issues.
Then we got Khanid mark II..... thats all that has been done for amarr in the last 2 YEARS!!!!
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
shinsushi
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Posted - 2007.11.16 22:21:00 -
[402]
Edited by: shinsushi on 16/11/2007 22:22:15 Time for a little more fuel...
Oh right, so whats the problem with amarr now? Lets ask the devs.
Originally by: CCP Nozh in reference to the pilgrim/curse
Weren't the Amarr recons "the flavour of the month" after RMR? Personally I don't think Amarr are "gimped", I fly a lot of Amarr ships myself, they are however lacking something.
Originally by: CCP Zulupark I fly the Curse and the Pilgrim myself. I think the Curse is a damn fine PVP ship (I'd show you some pretty cool killmails if I could). The Pilgrim however might need some loving, especially in regards to the range it's doomed to fight at. But on the other hand, you have to realize that all the similar recons for the other races (falcon, arazu and rapier) have next to no damage output and are pretty useless solo.
Curse is fine??? yeah right. Oh, and the other recons can effect multiple ships with good EW/abilities from quite a long range.
Originally by: CCP zulupark Note that we have at no point sat down and said "lets tinker with Amarr
Originally by: CCP Zulupark I still think that the root of the problem is omni tanking and high natural EM resistances.
So there you have it, according to the devs, omni-tanking is the problem, somehow the apoc and the cruisers became fine, the pilgrim/curse are fine, and some type of magical oomph that hasn't been discussed in more than 9 months is to be instituted.
Let me say that again, they haven't even sat down to mess with amarr in 9 months, even though Tuxford said they would.
An Ad Hominem is a general category of fallacies in which a claim or argument is rejected on the basis of some irrelevant fact about the author of or the person presenting the claim or argument. |
Dextrius
Gallente ironwood ink
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Posted - 2007.11.17 02:23:00 -
[403]
/signed
Ruin EVE? Some Goonswarm members gloat, destroy EVE Online
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PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.17 07:13:00 -
[404]
Originally by: CCP Zulupark "I fly the Curse and the Pilgrim myself. I think the Curse is a damn fine PVP ship (I'd show you some pretty cool killmails if I could). The Pilgrim however might need some loving, especially in regards to the range it's doomed to fight at. But on the other hand, you have to realize that all the similar recons for the other races (falcon, arazu and rapier) have next to no damage output and are pretty useless solo." OMG - he flyed curse. Of course "is a damn fine PVP ship" at least was before nosf nefr. He flyed 1 of 3 amarr DRONE cruisers - and now all amarrs have no problem - and lasers have no problem - and real second ship bonus exists. I just understand why amarrs are still unfixed.... We all doomed
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Moghydin
Confederation of Red Moon Red Moon Federation
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Posted - 2007.11.17 07:31:00 -
[405]
Quite clear that the best Amarr ships are Khanid Mk II - missiles, and Curse/Pilgrim - drones, although Curse/Pilgrim were hit hard by a nerfbat, they are still stand out of the line of other Amarr vessels. That says a lot about laser balancing issues.
Press alt+F4 to reduce lag |
Chronos VIII
Amarr Infinitus Odium The Church.
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Posted - 2007.11.17 09:35:00 -
[406]
People like Felysta should work for CCP tbfh. Not the muppets they have atm - e.g. the people workin on balancing.It must have taken ages to write this stuff down. Really good stuff
/signed Now ccp start to play the game, and dont play games. (sry couldnt resist ) Chronos
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d'hofren
Malicious Intentions Cult of War
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Posted - 2007.11.17 09:37:00 -
[407]
Nice post, just one thing tho. The Phoon tank is based around a dual lar setup, very uncommon, you just don't have the cpu to run it, not the grid to fit anything else once they are on the ship...
The mael tank is based around dual boost amps, so is boosting un resisted, very limited tank life so quite unlikely.
Bar that very very very good post
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NoobALTS
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Posted - 2007.11.17 09:41:00 -
[408]
Originally by: shinsushi Let me say that again, they haven't even sat down to mess with amarr in 9 months, even though Tuxford said they would.
While I understand that if CCP say that they will look at Amarr, they could take a year to put changes through due to planning/balancing etc.
And the fact they, over 9 months ago, stated that they would do some work on Amarr and so far have not even sat down is just plain nuts. Meh, time to train Gallente, since I am pretty sure that at this rate, it will be 2-3 years before Amarr get fixed. Bit like it took 2 years to fix Minmatar.
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Ashen Wraith
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Posted - 2007.11.17 10:01:00 -
[409]
/signed
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SiJira
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Posted - 2007.11.17 14:34:00 -
[410]
amarr are balanced
you just need to know what to do with them ____ __ ________ _sig below_ devs and gms cant modify my sig if they tried! _lies above_ CCP Morpheus was here Morpheus Fails. You need colors!! -Kaemonn [yellow]Kaem |
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Lisento Slaven
Amarr Capitalism Amuck
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Posted - 2007.11.17 15:19:00 -
[411]
Originally by: SiJira amarr are balanced
you just need to know what to do with them
This is entirely true.
What you need to do with them is use the armageddon, abaddon, harbinger, absolution, or sacrilege. There you go...that's how to play as Amarr =P ---
Put in space whales!
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NoobALTS
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Posted - 2007.11.17 15:25:00 -
[412]
Edited by: NoobALTS on 17/11/2007 15:25:53
Originally by: Lisento Slaven
Originally by: SiJira amarr are balanced
you just need to know what to do with them
This is entirely true.
What you need to do with them is use the armageddon, abaddon, harbinger, absolution, or sacrilege. There you go...that's how to play as Amarr =P
However, Granted that the Abaddon gives the Retrever a run for its money, a Covetor tends to do better than any of those ships you mentioned. The only exception is Sacreledge, which is the only competitive ship Amarr have now that the curse/pilgrim got nerfed into oblivian
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SecondChance
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Posted - 2007.11.17 15:33:00 -
[413]
Originally by: SiJira amarr are balanced
you just need to know what to do with them
Whell -if it is a balance of style and design vs ingame effectivnes... i agree - from that poin we ballanced.At least that is one point why someone still playing amarrs
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Aindrias
Amarr Labteck Corporation LTD. Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2007.11.17 16:37:00 -
[414]
Edited by: Aindrias on 17/11/2007 16:38:05 /SIGNED
edit: Balance is NOT making everything the same. It's making the positives and negatives of the races equally good and equally detrimental respectively.
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Archangel Sierra
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2007.11.17 16:42:00 -
[415]
Edited by: Archangel Sierra on 17/11/2007 16:45:19 I had a look at wikipedia's page on EM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_radiation
So, we have all these crystals that cover most of the spectrum of EM radiation..but they don't do anything differently, or than various ranges and colors, with small variance betweeen em and thermal. Lasers aren't implemented in eve as what they are, radiation. Instead, lasers are treated like every other weapons system in-game, a gun with bullets. Radiation weapons should have different effects on opponents when used; it's not just straight-up damage. There should be different damage effects added to those who are hit with a laser weapon.
1) Add a way of shielding any given ship from different types of radiation. It could be an additional rig slot, implants, a type of booster, maybe not a module, unless every ship gets an additional mod slot for this purpose.
2) Radiation damage to unshielded/poorly shielded ships. this could be any number of things, all kinds of different effects could be implemented. Again, it's not just one thing hitting another, with radiation, the damage is internal, not just external. I urge everyone to be creative with their imagination on this point, as far as what specifically would happen without radiation shielding on a ship.
3) Radiation sickness for pod pilots, countered by boosters, or another item. In SWG(I know, I know) there are all kinds of different foods,/drinks that give various bonuses. In eve, we have boosters, but they're hard to get for most. Introduce a readily available item on the market to cure radiation sickness, or to shield you from it. I've not been playing for a long time, so I'm short on specifics, but I submit this idea to you, the community, for refinement, improvement, or to be laughed off the forums. /discuss
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Reginald Rartan
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Posted - 2007.11.17 17:00:00 -
[416]
/Signed
60 bill isk up for grasp. Are you ready? |
adriaans
Amarr Advanced Capital Ship Designs
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Posted - 2007.11.17 19:11:00 -
[417]
Edited by: adriaans on 17/11/2007 19:16:54 I would like to refer you to my thread where i have some SOLUTIONS!
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=637960&page=1
link (if it works)(it works! :D)
I believe it covers a solution that has not been suggested yet. --sig--
Knowledge is power! |
Lord WarATron
Amarr Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2007.11.17 19:20:00 -
[418]
As someone who remembers muraken's 100 page Amarr thread 10 months ago (which got locked by a mod eventually) I would like to say that if CCP can realease a devblog on what they are planning to do with Amarr, it would be much appriciated.
You dont have to give detials, or any commitmints. Just tell us you are planning to review Amarr.
Thanks --
Billion Isk Mission |
Cygnus Zhada
Amarr The Wild Hunt
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Posted - 2007.11.17 19:22:00 -
[419]
Edited by: Cygnus Zhada on 17/11/2007 19:22:28
Originally by: Lord WarATron As someone who remembers muraken's 100 page Amarr thread 10 months ago (which got locked by a mod eventually) I would like to say that if CCP can realease a devblog on what they are planning to do with Amarr, it would be much appriciated.
You dont have to give detials, or any commitmints. Just tell us you are planning to review Amarr.
Thanks
One dev said 2 things a few days ago;
1) "something" isn't right with Amarr 2) "we haven't really worked on it yet"
Welcome to EVE Online: Press 1 for Caldari, PVE Online Press 2 for Minmatar, PVP Online Press 3 for Gallente, PWN Online Press 4 for Amarr, Lulz Online |
PeacefullNub
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Posted - 2007.11.17 20:35:00 -
[420]
Another portion of solutions - just dreaming :) Firstly - removing "-laser cap use" and giving real second bonus, so that u can fly and shoot without 4-5 lvl of ship. many topic readers agreed that we need this boost just to stay in line with another racial ships. 1)new pulse lasers tactics - rapid fire weapon low to med range a)-50% damdgemod -50% rof (same dps - but greater speed and cap use) b)-120% capasitor use per shot (-50% to balance ship bonus - 50% to balance increased cap consumption, -20 minior boost). c)-25% weapon signature resolution (better tracking vs smaller targets) d)slightly reduced optimal and increased fallof (but opt+2fallof still same as today) 2)new beam lasers tactics - slow med to long range weapon a)+60% damagemod +60% rof (same dps, best instant damage, -60% cap usage - still greater than rails) b)slightly increased optimal and greatly (to lvl of pulses)decreased fallof (greater boost from track comp - but shoter randge without it) c)and some fixes in t2 pulse/beam crystalls (according new rof and optimal)
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