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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Asterisk Grat Best Path Inc. Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [961] CCP, the intent of the changes is welcomed. I think you need to find a good balance between regular T2, T2 + rigs and T2+rigs+implants setups nerf. A nano ship should remain nano, nerfing overdrive and nanofiber bonuses that are part of any standard nano fit should be less severe. Because if you nerf speed tanking, be that of a HAC or an interceptor, you're boosting all other ships that don't have speed but have tank, even T1 battle cruisers. Basically you may create a much bigger imbalance, where T1 ships start cause too much damage on much more expensive T2 ships that are meant to do what they do.
Hortoken Wolfbrother Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [962] Originally by: Tomic Originally by: ZW Dewitt Edited by: ZW Dewitt on 25/07/2008 17:47:35 You can still do hit and run warfare, you just have to use smaller ships now. THE HORROR! Small ships (frigs) are ineffective at killing anything more than a couple of ships. I sure the hell wouldnt fly a small ship against PL, your life expectancy once you become targetable is about 2 seconds
Dungar Loghoth Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [963] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Originally by: Whiners You Mean Im Going To Have To Commit To Fights??? Originally by: CCP Yap How does one get kills without committing to fights? ---
TheTrueHorror	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [964] Love the changes. A good way to promote guerilla warfare might be to get rid of local. This would allow small gangs to utilise stealth more effectively for hit and run tactics (tracking an enemy across systems would be much more difficult without the local window). It would also promote more engagements as forces would not be immediately aware of the size of an opposing gang from simply glancing at the local window. You can keep the local chat window there, just get rid of the player list and the number of players in system.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [965] Originally by: Space Flyer THANKS CCP for killing the only way that we all had to fight blobs outnumbered in this game... really THANKS! So the fix for flawed game design (blobs) is broken game mechanics (ludicrous speed)? Err.. let's not even start to go into that. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Veldya Caldari Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [966] Originally by: Wesley Baird Funny, most every pro-nerf post is from some tiny corp or carebear alliance...wonder why that is?! Perhaps because the only strategy you have come up with to battle nanogangs is numbers... Of course there are many extremely effective anti-nano tactics...but lets not use those when we can all just blob up... I guess Jump bridges weren''t enough for the pro blob forces...just remove the last anti-blob techniques in the game... These comments are extremely amusing given I have had the displeasure of seeing 30-60 man nano-gank squads, from your alliance and ex-alliance members, the vast majority of the whiners on this thread. So much for the small man anti-blob, aye? I think nano***s fly nano not so much for the small scale combat but because they are so effective at avoiding the consequences of conflict. You want to kill without the risk of reprisal. You guys just want to rack up cheap kills in your cookie cutter builds. You are preaching from a pedestal you have no right to be standing on.
Skipdog	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:51:00 - [967] Originally by: HakanSherif Yea go ahead implement these, and remove the only actual skill required flight style from game, remove the danger from 0.0 where both sides with blobs can sit and shoot each other and the outcome is determined by who has more numbers or who lags less. I was under the impression that expensive nano-fitted ships "remove the danger from 0.0". From this statement, it seems like you want the outcome determined by....who has the nano-ships?? Doesn't that just sound wrong to you guys and imply that maybe the ONLY SHIP WHO CAN VIABLY RUN IN SMALL GANGS AND ESCAPE FROM ENGAGEMENTS should be nerfed? I'm not saying I agree with all the changes all at one time, but don't some of you think that some type of nano-nerf is in order? Yeah, it is fun flying a ship that can escape engagements at-will. That whole concept seems flawed to me though. Yay there is one type of ship that gives you a good chance to survive while in a small gang!! That honestly doesn't sound wrong?
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:52:00 - [968] Originally by: Tillakna About time, much respect CCP! ...now time to go back to our old days pvping, yarr! Old days pvping? You've had 100 kills in your entire EVE-life, that's what some of us do in a month. GTFO. You can have your mining and ratting, just let us keep our damn nanoboats.
Apertotes Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:52:00 - [969] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Apertotes well, welcome to the world of non-consentual PVP. it goes both ways, you know? No, it doesn't. If you can leave combat at will, that means it is consensual. Duh. ah no, if you start a fight, then its consentual to you, and non-consentual to the one you are attacking. if he disengages by running (or any other means), then its consentual to him, and non-consentual to you. it needs to be that way, or else balance is gone.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:53:00 - [970] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/07/2008 17:55:17 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 25/07/2008 17:53:17 Originally by: ZW Dewitt Edited by: ZW Dewitt on 25/07/2008 17:47:35 You can still do hit and run warfare, you just have to use smaller ships now. THE HORROR! This. The changes benefit small ships a whole lot, btw. I like them in their entirety, although I never had a issue with nanoships. Stupid people did, but stupid people will have issues with any good tactic. People claiming you couldn't hit Vagabonds and stuff will have even more fun hitting AB setups. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Call'Da Poleece Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:53:00 - [971] Originally by: Haniblecter Teg Originally by: Whiners You Mean Im Going To Have To Commit To Fights??? Originally by: CCP Yap QFT ... I could flush the toilet with the amount of tears in this thread. By the looks of it almost all of Pathetic Legion will be unsubscribing in a couple of months... oh the joy
Astria Tiphareth Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:54:00 - [972] Originally by: Cpt Branko The changes benefit small ships a whole lot, btw. I'm quite looking forward to trying out the new AFs, for one. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
KingCappo Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:55:00 - [973] Originally by: ZW Dewitt Edited by: ZW Dewitt on 25/07/2008 17:47:35 You can still do hit and run warfare, you just have to use smaller ships now. THE HORROR! Uhh, HACS and recons are already smaller than the BS blob.
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:55:00 - [974] Originally by: Call'Da Poleece QFT ... I could flush the toilet with the amount of tears in this thread. By the looks of it almost all of Pathetic Legion will be unsubscribing in a couple of months... oh the joy How about you post with your carebear alliance ratting main instead?
Murina The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:55:00 - [975] Originally by: Veldya Originally by: Wesley Baird Funny, most every pro-nerf post is from some tiny corp or carebear alliance...wonder why that is?! Perhaps because the only strategy you have come up with to battle nanogangs is numbers... Of course there are many extremely effective anti-nano tactics...but lets not use those when we can all just blob up... I guess Jump bridges weren''t enough for the pro blob forces...just remove the last anti-blob techniques in the game... These comments are extremely amusing given I have had the displeasure of seeing 30-60 man nano-gank squads, from your alliance and ex-alliance members, the vast majority of the whiners on this thread. So much for the small man anti-blob, aye? I think nano***s fly nano not so much for the small scale combat but because they are so effective at avoiding the consequences of conflict. You want to kill without the risk of reprisal. You guys just want to rack up cheap kills in your cookie cutter builds. You are preaching from a pedestal you have no right to be standing on. Actually its because we do not want pvp to become a static unmoving blob vs blob slug fest that is decided by the team with the most or any ships left at the end.
Gavin Darklighter THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:55:00 - [976] 60% webbers? Turret BS won't be able to track jack shit up close. Looks like I'll be flying a torp raven.
Horeta	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:55:00 - [977] a really really great change. cruiser sized ships should never reach frig sized speeds. roaming is not dead, only now normal ships have a chance against nanohacs.
deadok Amarr RUS Rebellion Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 17:55:00 - [978] Originally by: Astria Tiphareth Why? You're afraid you might have to think about a new fit? CCP took a look at the Miner I vs 150mm Autocannon I issue and decided, quite rightly, that every PvPer under the sun fits an 150mm.This implies a broken game design. fixed.
viper zulu Red Tides	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:00:00 - [979] You will be able to defend your space in 0.0 very easy these days. If a big enough gang comes into it, camp those chokepoints with bubbles and titans. It will be worth it. Big Carrier and Titan Gangs 4TW. <--- Wishes I still had my titan:( Looks like Ravens and Drakes are once again back on top. Perfectly Fitted Nano Macherial = 5B Isk Snake Set = 3B ISK Minni Pilot Account = 14.95 per month CCP ruining the game for thousands = Priceless Where Can I sign up BOB, I will listen to the FC's cause I am sure they will train me to be ahead of changes like this. MAX Policy= if we struggle; don't worry, just sign on a dev account and and fix it. These are my views and dont reflect on my corp and alliance in anyway. Proud Member of Omega Enterprises
Stalina Gallente Deep Space Exploration Squad	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:01:00 - [980] Originally by: Terastra Quote: There are currently quite a few effective counters to speed tanking ships, chiefly Minmatar Recons and neutralizing ships. yes, because every alliance has 15-20 huggin/rapier pilots just sitting around for when your 20,40, 50+ man nano*** gang shows up. Have you ever been in a non-carebear Alliance?
Rahjadan Shardur Minmatar	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:01:00 - [981] Ok i tried to read the whole thread but it just isn't possible. now to the issue: The idea behind the changes are most centanly the reight ones, but you have to look at the source of a problem to understand it. so the question is: "why are nanofits so popular?" the answer i find to that question is gatecamps. the only time i fly fast (nanoed) ships is in 0.0 or in areas of lowsec where i expect gatecamps. espacialy the zerospace bubble camps are almost impossible to survive in a small gang (or godforbid solo) unless you are going fast enough so that you are out of tackel range once they are able to lock you. if you look at the numbers you will find that nanoships don't do alot of damage and no skilled BS pilot will ever be killed by a solo nanoHAC, while when you are a lone pilot engaged by a gang it doesn't realy matter what they fly you will just die. 3 t1 cuiser are enogh to take down a BS, smal gangs of 5-8 ppl have no problem what so ever. so it's not the fighting power ppl are complining about, so what is it? what is to terribly wrong with the nanoed ships? (btw i do think a clone-ship setup worth 5+ billion isk should be supirior) bare in mind that a HAC can't beat a BC in a pure Tank/Gank engadement. however, so if you find a way to survive (bubble) gatecamps without the need of "Ludicrous speed" ppl would fly less nanoships because the need would no longer be there. Still i like the changes somehow, but if you implement them please give a new way to survive camps. ------------------ Believing is not wanting to know the truth!
Atsuko Ratu Caldari VSP Corp.	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:01:00 - [982] Fact: If you are pro pvp alliance (lol tri), you must fly nano and engage with less ships than the enemy gang. Fact: If you are noob carebear alliance (lol tri), you must fly slow ships and engage with more ships than the enemy gang.
Moon Kitten GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:01:00 - [983] Edited by: Moon Kitten on 25/07/2008 18:02:16 False dilemma (false dichotomy): where two alternative statements are held to be the only possible options, when in reality there are several. Example: There are only two states of combat in Eve: the current state of unbalanced nanospeeds or big blobs This is not true, it is in fact false. There are far more than two types of combat scenarios in Eve. Eve is not black or white, it is gray. CCP made the right decision. I and the rest of player base will enjoy a more varied and interesting eve universe after this well deserved patch. edit: Atsuko Ratu, hi five!
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:01:00 - [984] Originally by: Oku Kee'lus Maybe only warp scramblers should be able to disable MWDs? That's what they said. This is boost to small ships which want to fight close-range, as they can prevent the MWD away->'lol, die frig/AF/cruiser/HAC' behaviour when in a BS (which was incredibly effective and rendered any speed-tanking impossible in webrange). Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Flem'berk	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:02:00 - [985] Originally by: AntonioBanderas you will ** up, as usual. what will happen to stabber? minmatar recons? Nano hacs in general are a bad thing, not ment to go 4+ km/s, but vaga is designed to go that fast. ** that, a DEV EFT warrior? WTF, do you know how stupidly pricy that stuff is? Do devs play eve at all? Intys? What, are we supposed to tank them? So help me God, if i won't be able to speed tank t1 missiles in my vaga, i'm quiting this stupid game. It's broken as it is, and you keep on breaking stuff. HINT: do the maths vaga will still go zoom.... honest try it on sisi on monday...
Cutesmile	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:03:00 - [986] Edited by: Cutesmile on 25/07/2008 18:03:57 Originally by: Entelechia Edited by: Entelechia on 25/07/2008 17:15:16 Originally by: Aenis Veros How about keeping everything as-is and just changing the warp-scrambler into an anti-MWD module, eg with scripts: Warp Scrambler, changes from a continual-effect module to a "stop"-module (think manual mode with a long reactivation timer): a) -50% range (5km with t2), Disables MWD b) +50% range,(15km with t2), Reduces target MWD-speed by 90% instantly c) Unscripted, -80% range (2km with t2), Disables MWD & Reduces target MWD-speed by 50% instantly. It no longer stops any ships from warping away, it's 100% designed to stop MICROWARPDRIVES. Make it have a 20 second delay before it can be used again. The scrambler in this case isn't a continual point, but a stop-module. You use it on one target, it can still warp away, but it's designed to work against nano-ships. It's very short-range so you either have to get up close and personal, or be in an Arazu. We have something like this already. We call them stasis webifiers. In fact, we even have ships that are really good at catching nanoships and stopping them cold. They are called the Rapier and the Huginn. I said before, this is not nano nerf, this is a hidden Caldari boost. They are always cried for , and now get it they boost. Now the ships cant catch a Falcon who sit 200+ off range. Now the missile can beat anything, and now will be come the Caldari era. They hold the best attribute Achura class, half time learning for the missile skills, and ECM. Anyone want playing another classes ? Ask CCP.
Terastra State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:04:00 - [987] Quote: Have you ever been in a non-carebear Alliance? yes, the problem is we never had an issue since when a nano* gang came around we just nanoged them back. essentially what the nano**s are saying, have been saying forever, is their game choice or how they think the game needs to work is god and everyone else should be forced into the specific counter for their game style or die. guess what, the shoe is now on the other foot. adapt or die.
Dwindlehop Uninvited Guests	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:04:00 - [988] "Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for." I'm not sure I understand how interceptors will operate without being able to speed tank. Are they only intended for use against larger ship classes?
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:04:00 - [989] Originally by: Cutesmile Now the ships cant catch a Falcon who sit 200+ off range. Everyone has falcons of their own, only nubbins fly single-race fleets. Originally by: Cutesmile Now the missile can beat anything Ahahahah....ahahah....LOL, right. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
silken mouth	Posted - 2008.07.25 18:04:00 - [990] Quote: i would also like to add that instead of giving scramblers simply the abilitiy to disrupt mwds, i would prefer a script for that. Said script should be usable by disruptors as well, however, due scrambling strength, on would need 2 scripted disruptors or 1 scripted scrambler for the job. As a result you can de-mwd someone by scrambling or double disrupting him, but in order to keep him from warping you would need another unscripted scrambler/disruptor. You implemented scripts for tactical variety, you should use your own tools! This plus: standard webber: 90% speed reduction, range 5000m, scripted webber 40% speed reduction range 15km. you want to nail him on the spot? you have to expose yourself to Smartbombs and neuts. you want to play it safe? You better bring dedicated ships/ lots of friends and he still gonna have some speed.. Still a vaga with t2 polycarbs and a full snakeset should outrun any t2 mod t1 rigs no-implant ceptor with ease!

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