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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Dungar Loghoth Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:25:00 - [1201] Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours? /me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours How big was the whine thread on your forums when you lost Nebba's titan? ---
sophisticatedlimabean Gallente Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:26:00 - [1202] This is quite possibly the worst nerf and the biggest mistake ccp have ever tried to implement, even if you ignore all the points that the experienced players have shown on this and other threads the fact is that a huge percentage of the player base is having what they feel is the most enjoyable style of pvp removed from the game. This fact alone should give ccp pause before removing such an enjoyable form of game play. My views may reflect those of my corp/alliance, but if you wanna know for sure ask em for gods sake.
Agmar Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:27:00 - [1203] Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours? /me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours How big was the whine thread on your forums when you lost Nebba's titan? About 1 post. Tell Space Flyer I said what's up.
Nyx Opet Caldari Top Secret Robot Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:27:00 - [1204] thanks for killing blasterboats. appreciate it. seriously, do you guys play this game? all the changes were okay right up until you decided that 50% webs were a good idea. blasterboats will be completely unable to lock a target down now because our guns' abysmal tracking cant hit jack shit. unless you propose we keep our mwd on just to stay in range. cuz blasterboats have so much free cap >.< oh, afterburner you say? how on earth are we ever getting in range within the next century? /angry --- What I have shown you is reality. What you remember, that is the illusion.
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:28:00 - [1205] Originally by: Agmar Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours? /me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours How big was the whine thread on your forums when you lost Nebba's titan? About 1 post. Tell Space Flyer I said what's up. Only 1? Tell Sel I said what's up?
Etien Aldragoran DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:31:00 - [1206] Glad I sold my t2 cruiser character as it's skillpoints are going to be worthless since the ships it could fly cant tank worth half a damn. Pitty that CCP has seemingly forgotten about the Huggin and Rapier bonus to web range. A 20 and 24km web that reduces the target's speed by 20% or 30% would have solved this as well. Minmatar are going to need a huge boost after this.
Zarthanon Gallente TEAMSTERS	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:32:00 - [1207] Originally by: Nyx Opet thanks for killing blasterboats. appreciate it. seriously, do you guys play this game? all the changes were okay right up until you decided that 50% webs were a good idea. blasterboats will be completely unable to lock a target down now because our guns' abysmal tracking cant hit jack shit. unless you propose we keep our mwd on just to stay in range. cuz blasterboats have so much free cap >.< oh, afterburner you say? how on earth are we ever getting in range within the next century? /angry Agreed. If blasterboats already weren't hard enough to fly--either way--the most problem I see is the billions of isk I have spent on snakes, nerfing them by 50%ish is crazy. Waste of the isk now. Everything else is generally decent, but the snakes, NOOOOOOO I like pie.
Smothered Buffalo	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:33:00 - [1208] Originally by: Euriti Originally by: Smothered Buffalo Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Smothered Buffalo Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Zoraya Rouge Yes I'm an alt why can't you post your opinions with your main? maybe because all you have been doing this thread is trying to invalidate others' opinions by displaying how long they have played and how many losses are on a killboard? I have no problem with people having an opinion that is different than my own; I have a problem when people try to use alts to artificially bloat the support this patch has. oh, you think ccp will decide if this should be nerfed by counting the number of forum posts? lawl Attention! The modifications discussed below are all subject to change, based on player input and testing experience. You are quite dumb aren't you? you must not of understood my intent. that pandemic guy is trying to discount arguments based on the character being an "alt". all im trying to say is that its the content of the top quality replies in the entire thread that ccp will listen to, not stupid one-liners made by alts. i never once said "STOP DISCUSSING THIS!" i was just lashing out at the pandemic guy for making 897343 posts trying to discredit somebody's argument based on them being an "alt" instead of trying to actually discredit the ARGUMENT. that is the only point i was trying to make. was just trying to show him how stupid it is to use "alt status" as way to discredit an argument. he should be using reason and logic instead. i dont know if this nerf is good or not. based on the replies it looks like it is quite flawed in its initial implementation and based on some of the high-quality replies in this thread, they will likely comprehend some of these concerns(thus, the point of this thread, for them to get input and make an appropriate decision). but yeah, i agree with you and im not sure where i stated that "what the devs said should not be changed". my point: counting posts is pointless. the quality replies are the only one that will get examined more thouroughly so the pandemic guy should instead think up good arguments to some of the alts who reply, instead of simply insisting "THIS CHAR IS AN ALT! ANYTHING HE SAYS CAN'T BE TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION!"
Elaine Celeste	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:34:00 - [1209] Utterly ridiculous changes that will completely ruin the game. Are they at least gonna make a new expansion and call it 'Eve: the Age of the Blob? Let us play the game the way we want to instead of forcing everybody into battleships. At least right now there's variety. If these changes go through, you'll have to be in a big slow ship or you'll die. I guess they're following all the other MMO's out there with their adage of 'bigger is always better'. CELESTE LOTTERIES
Foocurr	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:34:00 - [1210] so you say disabling mwd + 60% webber is more effective than 90% webber eh? well, if i am solo, how am i supposed to keep something from warping with a 9km scram? do you expect me to fit a 3 slot tackle? scram+disruptor+web. sounds pretty shit to me. i like the other changes, but here are your steps to success: 1. keep 90% web 2. change whatever else you want.(you can change blue to orange for all i care) 3. win
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:34:00 - [1211] wrong way taken with this imho. I would prefer to nerf polys and snakes, and boost the AB only. the rest seems to pretty much kill whatever small-scale pvp that there was with the age of the blob. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
NATMav F.R.E.E. Explorer	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:35:00 - [1212] It basically comes down to this: Vagabond - broken - NERF ALL SPEED MODS! Rapier - broken - NERF WEBS! -----------------------------------------
DeadDuck Amarr Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:36:00 - [1213] Originally by: Matrixcvd Originally by: Trojanman190 Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours? /me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours Star Wars Galaxies. There I said it. Am I the first? I believe sir you are. Its unbelievable to think these Devs even have a remote clue how the game is played.... Blob away ret3rds, blob away. I believe that DEVS know how the game is played, thats why they are introducing the changes. Blob away you say ? I remember the 50 nano hacs gangs you guys were using in Providence... Like you used to say ...ADAPT! ________________ God is my Wingman
Wesley Baird BURN EDEN Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:36:00 - [1214] Originally by: CCP Nozh Answering a few common questions: - Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods. really? how did those gangs deal with jump bridges? titan bridges? 400 man gangs?!?!?! Oh ya...there weren't any You make all of the pro-blob changes, argue that there was small gang pvp prior to snakes etc....ya, when 5 man gangs were considered big, and carriers were exceptionally rare...seriously do you play the game or just run missions?!?! You have made massive pro-blob changes and now you completely pretend they don't exist...and think we can go back to old time pvp...because giant alliance A wont see our slow gang coming and jump bridge triple our numbers right infront of us...no that won't happen?! Seriously total fail...
HotSeat Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:38:00 - [1215] Fix the Lag, you can nerf the speed. Ships go faster then missles? fine increase the missle speed. Slow the ships down, fine move us ALOT further from the gate on jump in. The issue here is lag, again speed is the only way the avoid the blob. Or does CCP just expect us to use our Titans to get on grid everytime there is a larger gang on the other side of a gate? Oh wait here is a crazy idea, how about finding some way for us to jump into a camp without everyone else seeing (and shooting) your ship before you even load grid? That should be what your working on, not these continued stupid nerf's In case you haven't noticed the forums, all your carebear customers that went to FW are just discovering EVE DOESN'T WORK. Strongly suggest you fix the real issues.
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:38:00 - [1216] Originally by: DeadDuck I believe that DEVS know how the game is played, thats why they are introducing the changes. Blob away you say ? I remember the 50 nano hacs gangs you guys were using in Providence... Like you used to say ...ADAPT! And you managed to counter quite well considering your alliance mostly flies Amarr. What's your point?
Morgane leFey Native Freshfood	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:38:00 - [1217]
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:39:00 - [1218] Ok, so these are the 5 objectives. 1. Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for. 2. There should be a significant and meaningful difference in speed between the ship classes. 3. Speed should not permit a larger ship to perform the role that a smaller specialized ship was intended for. 4. Afterburners should be a viable module selection for PVP. 5. Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic. Why didn't you choose a different set of changes that would have achieved this? For example: - Introduce a new drone type or drone skill that gives additional speed to drones. Or add a new module that increases drone speeds. - Introduce a new skill that increases explosion velocity of missiles, and unnerf T2 precision missiles so their (explosion)speed is increased and they don't decrease speed of the ship using them. And fix the T2 heavy precision missiles. Or add a module that increases explosion velocity. - Nerfing the Snakes is probably inevitable. - Increase the speedboost of ABs to 250% and add an agility bonus to them (imagine it adds vectored thrust for better maneuvring or so). What I think you should be going for is a setup where people can't reach speeds in excess of roughly 12kms anymore. Mostly that means nerfing snakes. If you wanna be nice to the snake owner, give them a different bonus instead, either agility or sig radius perhaps. And then you need to introduce a few tweaks that allows people to actually have a chance at hitting someone going 10-12kms, IF they make an effort for it. I.e. the right ammo/modules fitted.
techzer0 Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:42:00 - [1219] Originally by: Wesley Baird Originally by: CCP Nozh Answering a few common questions: - Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods. really? how did those gangs deal with jump bridges? titan bridges? 400 man gangs?!?!?! Oh ya...there weren't any You make all of the pro-blob changes, argue that there was small gang pvp prior to snakes etc....ya, when 5 man gangs were considered big, and carriers were exceptionally rare...seriously do you play the game or just run missions?!?! You have made massive pro-blob changes and now you completely pretend they don't exist...and think we can go back to old time pvp...because giant alliance A wont see our slow gang coming and jump bridge triple our numbers right infront of us...no that won't happen?! Seriously total fail... QFT... Dunno how many times I've narrowly avoided a MM blob that jump bridged ahead of me on a roam. "This needs to be looked at CCP" ****... fix blobs. I haven't seen much changes to "fix" blob warfare in 2 years even though it's always a subject. ------------ CCP > Let's play the nerf a race game! Next up minmatar!
Wicked Princess Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:43:00 - [1220] Instead of nerfing something else....why not fix the one thing that impacts EVERYONE? The lag. Nerfing nano and pushing even more toward large blobs is only going to exacerbate the base problem of lag.
Lorzion Minmatar Minmatar Mafia	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:43:00 - [1221] One thing targeted twords the "Nano***s need to learn to adapt" thing lol? are your kidding me? you couldn't adapt by bringing a minmatar Recon with you? what about a Large Nuet? why can't you adapt?
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:44:00 - [1222] Edited by: Furb Killer on 25/07/2008 20:45:27 Nanos arent the only way you can effectively do small gang pvp and imo they ruin solo pvp. Nanos might be the only way to fight blobs, or at least one of the few ways. However: 1. Blobs are broken, doesnt mean nanos should also be broken. 2. Stop trying to fight blobs, go arround them. And hit and run tactics/guerilla war is not the same as orbitting your opponent at 3-5 km/s @lorzion, how will a heavy neut kill a nano? No way a battleship is in web range before you are gone.
Loka xDD	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:44:00 - [1223] Lets see the good points about nerfing nano... When u get in a fight, u can lock the target, press F1-F8.. and, alt tab to check e-mails, phone a friend and tell him hows the fight.. You can even download and watch some pron on internet go to bathroom, have some fun there and come back to check hows the fight... In small gangs while u are fighting nanos u have to call ppls with webs in TeamSpeak, call jammings, commands to get out, alot of stuffs like that. Now u dont have to worry about it anymore, the TS will be way more clean, and u have time to say jokes, sing, and, oh, u will not need TS anymore... just broadcast the target, F1-F8 and wait =D hmmmm The ships will be cheap too =D BS with insurance.. woooooot, im not gonna lose 100mil hacs and get 7mil isk back anymore =D and yeahhhh!!! when hostiles enter in the system with 5x less people than us, lets buble them and blob them, hotdrop them, and KILL THEM ALL!!! wooooooooottt!! They cant escape anymore!!!!! awesome=D otherwise stay docked.. ofcourse... should i go on? cant wait to this patch reach TQ... nano fights make me too concentrate while fighting, i cant even blink my eyes.. nah, i wanna do others stuffs while fighting... BS/BC/Blobs ftw...
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:44:00 - [1224] Originally by: Malachon Draco For example: - Introduce a new drone type or drone skill that gives additional speed to drones. Or add a new module that increases drone speeds. - Introduce a new skill that increases explosion velocity of missiles, and unnerf T2 precision missiles so their (explosion)speed is increased and they don't decrease speed of the ship using them. And fix the T2 heavy precision missiles. Or add a module that increases explosion velocity. - Nerfing the Snakes is probably inevitable. - Increase the speedboost of ABs to 250% and add an agility bonus to them (imagine it adds vectored thrust for better maneuvring or so). What I think you should be going for is a setup where people can't reach speeds in excess of roughly 12kms anymore. Mostly that means nerfing snakes. If you wanna be nice to the snake owner, give them a different bonus instead, either agility or sig radius perhaps. And then you need to introduce a few tweaks that allows people to actually have a chance at hitting someone going 10-12kms, IF they make an effort for it. I.e. the right ammo/modules fitted. They mentioned testing "high speed" misssiles and drones, and apparently the physics engine couldn't handle it. Not saying that its ok to rebalance everything due to a tech limitation, but it was examined. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
GO MaZ The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:44:00 - [1225] Originally by: DeadDuck I believe that DEVS know how the game is played, thats why they are introducing the changes. Blob away you say ? I remember the 50 nano hacs gangs you guys were using in Providence... Like you used to say ...ADAPT! I don't remember exactly but wasn't that 50 man nanogang brought out while you were defending a cynojammer with the entire provi superfriends fleet of like 100+? ---
notaway Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:45:00 - [1226] This is just wonderful--yesterday I bought a Domination web and earlier today I began to build two polycarbon rigs for the Rapier I just bought and now I see this post--it seems this will devalue both--at least I haven't installed the polycarbs yet. I guess the web bonus for the rapier will still apply.
Benedic The Aftermath	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:46:00 - [1227] Basing balancing on SiSi combat is pretty awesome. Pretty sure it's fairly representative of actual combat on TQ, everyone has HG pirate implants, faction gear, strong drugs and fleet commandships sitting safespotted running as many gang links there too, right? Awesome devs are awesome. Luckily I will just keep spinnin in my station, your crazy nerfs better not influence my spin speed :\
Daelan Lok'errt SoT	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:54:00 - [1228] Originally by: Malachon Draco Ok, so these are the 5 objectives. 1. Speed must never reach ludicrous speed, which is defined as speeds where missiles and drones don't intercept the class of ship they were intended for. 2. There should be a significant and meaningful difference in speed between the ship classes. 3. Speed should not permit a larger ship to perform the role that a smaller specialized ship was intended for. 4. Afterburners should be a viable module selection for PVP. 5. Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic. Why didn't you choose a different set of changes that would have achieved this? For example: - Introduce a new drone type or drone skill that gives additional speed to drones. Or add a new module that increases drone speeds. - Introduce a new skill that increases explosion velocity of missiles, and unnerf T2 precision missiles so their (explosion)speed is increased and they don't decrease speed of the ship using them. And fix the T2 heavy precision missiles. Or add a module that increases explosion velocity. - Nerfing the Snakes is probably inevitable. - Increase the speedboost of ABs to 250% and add an agility bonus to them (imagine it adds vectored thrust for better maneuvring or so). What I think you should be going for is a setup where people can't reach speeds in excess of roughly 12kms anymore. Mostly that means nerfing snakes. If you wanna be nice to the snake owner, give them a different bonus instead, either agility or sig radius perhaps. And then you need to introduce a few tweaks that allows people to actually have a chance at hitting someone going 10-12kms, IF they make an effort for it. I.e. the right ammo/modules fitted. Well, actually there's already a module that increases drone speed: Drone Navigation Computer. There are setups for missile ships that are effective even against ceptors leave alone relatively slower HACs (i'm not talking about 1 in a thousand developer dreamland setups with snake set, T2 polycarbons and faction modules, mind you) there's heavy neuts there's ships with bonuses to neut range there's ships with bonuses to web range All in all, there's a *uckload of effective anti-nano out there already, but see, the point of this nerf is not to create a balanced pvp, but to just make it possible for a carebear in a drake or a raven or whatever to effectively fight off anything smaller without having to think, to specialize, to (omfg, no) refit.
Kery Syander The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:54:00 - [1229] Originally by: Malachon Draco Missiles have an advantage that they never miss if an enemy is close enough/going slow enough. Additionally, a missile user doesn't need to worry about transversals or his own speed. That he then can't hit other ships going really fast, well I'd call it a form of balance. How are we gonna compensate gun users for the fact their guns don't always hit compared to missile users? this. unfortunately people seem to forget this all the time. -----
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:55:00 - [1230] Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo two things i'd like to point out that some people seem to have ignored for whatever reason: a similar situation has cropped up several times in eve history - oversized afterburners being de rigeur, same for double MWDs at a different point. Each time the proposed changes came with a relatively similar amount of whining, phrased as 'you're removing all the fun out of the game', 'you're killing small-gang pvp' and, perhaps most memorably 'i quit' - i wonder how many people actually did as a result. secondly, small gang pvp existed in eve long before boosters, rigs and snake sets. somehow it is wholly and utterly doomed now that speeds are to be lowered oh, the irony. QFT

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