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New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced by Nozh

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Isben Yamas The Dandy KillerS	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:55:00 - [1231] Edited by: Isben Yamas on 25/07/2008 20:56:23 Only the web changes are anoying me. I was thinking about using the signature radius in the effectiveness of a webifier. The idea is to encourage ships to have the lower signature radius to keep their speed. An inty with no mwd would only lose 50% of his velocity. But if he is using mwd, he will loose 90% of his velocity. it's just an exemple, but the signature bonus on inty would be very usefull. Assault ships would have a new life with an afterburner against big targets. Combined with the others changes, ludicrous speed would be totally useless to kill anything. Sorry for ugly english, if you need more details, contact me Isben
Kell Braugh	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:56:00 - [1232] i agree with the intent and general direction of the changes, but the 9k scram stopping the mwd is just stupid. I enjoy the dynamics of a 90% web on a guy with a 500% increased sig much much better... If your intent was to also nerf minnie recons, okay, keep the increased range of webs but reduce effectiveness. role: 50% reduction in effectiveness, 60% range bonus for webs. If its one thing id like to see in how these changes are made, its with tiny single attribute modifications and an all at once, sweeping change to any ship that used speed as an advantage- if for nothing else, but to allow players to adapt their play style and assets accordingly. - EFT screen shots are NOT an accurate example of a ship's abilities.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:57:00 - [1233] Originally by: Kery Syander Originally by: Malachon Draco Missiles have an advantage that they never miss if an enemy is close enough/going slow enough. Additionally, a missile user doesn't need to worry about transversals or his own speed. That he then can't hit other ships going really fast, well I'd call it a form of balance. How are we gonna compensate gun users for the fact their guns don't always hit compared to missile users? this. unfortunately people seem to forget this all the time. Actually, no they don't. They simply realize that while a reduction in speed means they may actually be able to hit you from time to time, it doesn't automatically mean that they will be able to do any significant damage to you at the speeds you will STILL be able to travel at. Try again please.
Laechyd Eldgorn Caldari Karjala Inc.	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:57:00 - [1234] Speed nerf - Finally
Kery Syander The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:58:00 - [1235] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo two things i'd like to point out that some people seem to have ignored for whatever reason: a similar situation has cropped up several times in eve history - oversized afterburners being de rigeur, same for double MWDs at a different point. Each time the proposed changes came with a relatively similar amount of whining, phrased as 'you're removing all the fun out of the game', 'you're killing small-gang pvp' and, perhaps most memorably 'i quit' - i wonder how many people actually did as a result. secondly, small gang pvp existed in eve long before boosters, rigs and snake sets. somehow it is wholly and utterly doomed now that speeds are to be lowered oh, the irony. QFT good thing nothing else in eve has changed, otherwise this might have been an unfair comparison! -----
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:58:00 - [1236] Originally by: Tempest Kane Originally by: viper zulu <--- Wishes I still had my titan:( Originally by: viper zulu Yaay didn't you just loose a titan in your alliance? I think you need better FC's! In fairness atleast they used their titan (-: Actually, we had some nano FCs from the north running the circus that day :-) It's the Economy Stupid
Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:58:00 - [1237] Edited by: Avon on 25/07/2008 20:59:28 Originally by: Kery Syander Originally by: Malachon Draco Missiles have an advantage that they never miss if an enemy is close enough/going slow enough. Additionally, a missile user doesn't need to worry about transversals or his own speed. That he then can't hit other ships going really fast, well I'd call it a form of balance. How are we gonna compensate gun users for the fact their guns don't always hit compared to missile users? this. unfortunately people seem to forget this all the time. Those missile wrecking shots are awesome btw. And how often do turrets miss if the target is in range and going slow enough? Honestly, that is a terrible arguement. Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Dianabolic Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:59:00 - [1238] Originally by: Ranger 1 Quote: No, I dont, but if I give them pause and make them question why there are so many mains posting against the patch and so many alts posting support for it, then I've achieved my goal. Want to run that one by me again Dungar? I imagine quite a few tweaks well be tested before this all hits Tranquility, so everyone calm down a bit. As has happened in the past, people tend to whip themselves into a frenzy whenever their "flavor of the month" is threatened to be balanced. Interesting term, flavor of the month. By its very nature it suggests that it will not last forever... people tend to forget that. Speed tanking, in reality, has not achieved such popularity because it is the only answer available to counter blobs. Come on, admit it. Speed tanking is so overwhelmingly popular that even the "blobs" are using it. Its also true that a hefty proportion of the pilots that enjoy high kill/death ratios when speed tanking are no more skilled than any other average pilot... however they do have the money available to throw extremely expensive equipment out there. Read that again. Most speed tankers (the ones enjoying the benefits of Ludicrous Speed as it has been put) do well because of the amount of isk in their wallets, not due to any sudden overwhelming increase in their level of skill. Truth hurts, I know. I'll join you in a group hug after the patch. Skilled pilots will do just fine with these changes, pilots with more isk than skill will get angry and quit or move on to the next flavor of the month. Either way, lets keep in civil. I've had my favorite play style curbed a bit from time to time to make the game more balanced (and truthfully, more enjoyable in the long run). I survived nicely, I'm fairly sure you will too. Best post I've seen so far. And no, I haven't read all of them (you're kidding, right?) Although I reiterate my amusement at the whaaaaaaaaa WHAAAAAAAAAAA WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA comments coming from a few of the one trick ponies in the universe. Honestly, if you hadn't already noticed yet - CCP know they've got it balanced when they get a 40 page lol'naught going. Keep it up guys! Reikoku Diplomatic Forums
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 20:59:00 - [1239] Originally by: Yaay Actually, we had some terrible pilots account sharing supercapitals that day Fixed that bit for you.
Klak Caldari Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:00:00 - [1240] I don't understand the complaints about blasterboats. A disruptor does nothing to MWD. Webs currently function at 10k. Warp scramblers will work at 10k (or less). SO WHAT IN THE **** IS CHANGING?

ZW Dewitt	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:00:00 - [1241] Originally by: Kery Syander Originally by: Malachon Draco Missiles have an advantage that they never miss if an enemy is close enough/going slow enough. Additionally, a missile user doesn't need to worry about transversals or his own speed. That he then can't hit other ships going really fast, well I'd call it a form of balance. How are we gonna compensate gun users for the fact their guns don't always hit compared to missile users? this. unfortunately people seem to forget this all the time. People seem to forget explosion velocity all the time as well.
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:01:00 - [1242] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 25/07/2008 20:59:28 Originally by: Kery Syander Originally by: Malachon Draco Missiles have an advantage that they never miss if an enemy is close enough/going slow enough. Additionally, a missile user doesn't need to worry about transversals or his own speed. That he then can't hit other ships going really fast, well I'd call it a form of balance. How are we gonna compensate gun users for the fact their guns don't always hit compared to missile users? this. unfortunately people seem to forget this all the time. Those missile wrecking shots are awesome btw. And how often do turrets miss if the target is in range and going slow enough? Honestly, that is a terrible arguement. Not only that, speed still reduces missle damage... so zomg, we're taking 40 dps from missles going 2.5 km/s rather than .7 dps from missles going 4km/s and 0 dps going 5km/s. It's the Economy Stupid
mishkof Caldari Finis Lumen Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:01:00 - [1243] I was anticipating these changes, as shoud have everyone else. As it stands snake implants and speed give you a level of invulnerabiliy that no other method of ship fitting can. Slave and crystal implants are a joke compared to snakes...as is any other setup then speed. I wish they would go another route personaly, maybe a slight reduction in ship speed, plus an introduction of different webifiers with longer range and lower affects. If speed was your crutch before and you didnt anticipate these changes based on the balance of the game you were blind. This nerfs blaster setups far more then nano setups. I own a T2 BPO and Capital alt, therefor all of my views will be pro-Capital Alt/T2 BPO orientated. Please pick one of the following settings for your response. []hate me []troll me []smack me
Kyguard Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:02:00 - [1244] Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours? /me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours How big was the whine thread on your forums when you lost Nebba's titan? How big is the whine thread on your forums when you read this blog? You walked right into it dungar -
Renyn Stimpy	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:02:00 - [1245] Came here for the tears. Thread delivered. To all the Minmatar who LOLed at the Myrmidon/Eos nerf, KARMA'S A ***** AIN'T IT?
SunGod RA Perkone	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:03:00 - [1246] =[ Ripping out my eyeballs and frying them in a pan as we speak, to make the pain more bareable. I am somehow reminded of a fat turtle stuck in cement.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:03:00 - [1247] Originally by: Avon Edited by: Avon on 25/07/2008 20:59:28 Originally by: Kery Syander Originally by: Malachon Draco Missiles have an advantage that they never miss if an enemy is close enough/going slow enough. Additionally, a missile user doesn't need to worry about transversals or his own speed. That he then can't hit other ships going really fast, well I'd call it a form of balance. How are we gonna compensate gun users for the fact their guns don't always hit compared to missile users? this. unfortunately people seem to forget this all the time. Those missile wrecking shots are awesome btw. And how often do turrets miss if the target is in range and going slow enough? Honestly, that is a terrible arguement. Yes the wrecking hits are great. Allthough those barely scratching hits with missiles are annoying.
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:03:00 - [1248] Originally by: Viper **zIe Originally by: Yaay Actually, we had some terrible pilots account sharing supercapitals that day Fixed that bit for you. Heh, good work editing, may the truth haunt me forever n ever. It's the Economy Stupid
Danjira Ryuujin Caldari	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:04:00 - [1249] Originally by: Kery Syander Originally by: Malachon Draco Missiles have an advantage that they never miss if an enemy is close enough/going slow enough. Additionally, a missile user doesn't need to worry about transversals or his own speed. That he then can't hit other ships going really fast, well I'd call it a form of balance. How are we gonna compensate gun users for the fact their guns don't always hit compared to missile users? this. unfortunately people seem to forget this all the time. Both weapon systems have advantages and disadvantages. Explosion velocity mechanics mean that anyone flying fast enough to get a missile damage reduction will get that reduction from every incoming missile(trained skills and bonuses aside) from any ship on the entire grid no matter what direction it comes from. Amarr - Annoying the Eve Community since 2005
Loka xDD	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:04:00 - [1250] Originally by: InSession Well I hope that these changes are thought about and debated thoroughly before being put through. I feel that these changes may render corporations like my own that depend on guerrilla tactics more useless. It's hard enough for my corp mates and I to enter 0.0 from Empire (gate camps all over), then we go in and attack alliance station systems get a kill, stay awhile to maybe get a fight and based on what happens we either fight or leave. Now we'll be in slower ships and we'll get trapped and killed. It's been stated already that people who nano their ships in the current state already are putting tons of risk. HACs + polys = expensive. To achieve the insane speeds people faction fit, or use snakes which are also extremely expensive. This game is supposed to take team work, and well why can't the nano-whiners get a Rapier + Curse + support and scare people like me off like they should? Instead of using their ratting Ravens/Drakes w/o neuts to kill us. And people wonder why they get slaughtered so bad. Fit a damn neut and solo nano's will go away. Pay attention to local like you should and you can avoid just about anything, even nano's! Signed.. Carebears noobs mission runners dont know how to fight against nano... they have big numbers, and ccp like them... Now the real pvpers are fu**** =/ Theres some BS fitting really good against nano, example is the Apoc 100Km Pulse Lazors.. or the Harbinger with his amazing tracking... but, those noobs dont wanna know how to fight nano, they just dont wanna get ganked in belts with theirs drakes/raven... and ccp think its nice T_T

Avon Caldari Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:04:00 - [1251] Originally by: Malachon Draco Yes the wrecking hits are great. Allthough those barely scratching hits with missiles are annoying. Oh, you mean when the target is going faster than your missile's explosion velocity? Those ones? Eve-Online: The Text Adventure
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:04:00 - [1252] Originally by: Avon The fact that nano setups are unbalanced is kinda proved by the number of posts from people worried about losing their I-WIN button. The more they post, the more clear it is that rebalancing is required. This isn't the first major rebalance of something that was way out of line with game expectations, and I have no doubt that it won't be the last. Adapt kiddies - do your guerilla stuff in ships designed for that role. Amen brother!
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:04:00 - [1253] Originally by: Kyguard Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours? /me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours How big was the whine thread on your forums when you lost Nebba's titan? How big is the whine thread on your forums when you read this blog? You walked right into it dungar Apparently, he missed carrier nerf prop 1 It's the Economy Stupid
Larkonis Trassler Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:04:00 - [1254] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Uuve Savisaalo secondly, small gang pvp existed in eve long before boosters, rigs and snake sets. somehow it is wholly and utterly doomed now that speeds are to be lowered oh, the irony. You mean when standard space defence gangs for a 10-20 man roaming gang were 80+ people, 50% of the cluster had a capital alt, half of the spaceholding alliances in the game owned titans and even the most ******ed alliances had jump bridge networks capable of placing them almost anywhere within a 10 jump range of their home system? oh, wait. This Assumption of Risk
GO MaZ The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:04:00 - [1255] Originally by: Ranger 1 Actually, no they don't. They simply realize that while a reduction in speed means they may actually be able to hit you from time to time, it doesn't automatically mean that they will be able to do any significant damage to you at the speeds you will STILL be able to travel at. Try again please. What about when those turret based nanoships slow down so they can actually put some damage on a target? Oh look, that 120km long trail of cruise suddenly catches up and hits WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT! ---
Dungar Loghoth Caldari The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:05:00 - [1256] Originally by: Kyguard Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Agmar Not to derail the thread, but a serious question. Has a thread ever gone this many pages within 24 hours? /me puts the over/under at 78 pages in 24 hours How big was the whine thread on your forums when you lost Nebba's titan? How big is the whine thread on your forums when you read this blog? You walked right into it dungar About 90% of the thread was me asking how fast I was going to go in my various ships with the nerf since I'm not good at math ---
Zoraya Rouge	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:05:00 - [1257] Originally by: Dungar Loghoth Originally by: Zoraya Rouge Yes I'm an alt why can't you post your opinions with your main? I'm not posting with one of my mains, because I'm in an alliance, that don't have problems with nano-*gots at all. We just kill them or go nano-gots ourselves from time to time. However, while smacking you 100% nano-**gots, I thought that it would'nt be fair for the rest of my alliance, if I would've posted this with my main. I just don't want to break a war about this stoopid whinings from both sides. And like I said, I don't see any change in EvE after those changes are made. EvE is pretty much boring since everyone started going Cap-Fleets and crap like that.
Kery Syander The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:05:00 - [1258] Originally by: Dianabolic Honestly, if you hadn't already noticed yet - CCP know they've got it balanced when they get a 40 page lol'naught going. Keep it up guys! ur rite. I mean like when they tried to nerf carriers and MS. I mean they were right! Paying customers giving enough of a shit to voice concern is no reason for concern! "Those missile wrecking shots are awesome btw. And how often do turrets miss if the target is in range and going slow enough? Honestly, that is a terrible arguement." Great idea, let's compare cruise missiles with rails. OK. Now run the numbers with no ships capable of speed tanking cruise missiles. I wasn't making an argument, by the way. Simply stating a fact like 'people seem to forget this all the time' is not an arguement. honestly.. have people here ever been forced to formulate and defend an opinion NOT on the internet? -----
alterist	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:06:00 - [1259] Originally by: Yaay Originally by: Tempest Kane In fairness atleast they used their titan (-: Actually, we had some nano FCs from the north running the circus that day :-) Yup they had remote control over the titan pilots finger that made him not fit any rigs and forced him to jump to a cyno 200km off the pos while there was 60? hostile caps in the system.....
Bobby Atlas Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:13:00 - [1260] Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 25/07/2008 21:14:54 Originally by: Zhilan Alaioki Its so unfortunate that there have been tons of posts by people who havent even understood the changes and the few that really bring up good points are more or less drowned out. I agree with those that are saying this will break a lot of gameplay, because this will really nerf all speed tanked ships beyond hope and a lot of other ships along with it. Those few ships that really were a problem because they were near invicible should have been adressed, I agree, but this is just breaks all small gang hit and run gameplay. You are assuming hit and run within the wrong context, hit and run is actually you attack a target that is either isolated or alone - kill it then leave the field of engagement before backup arrives. The changes in the mentioned dev blog will make it so that 'speed tanking fleet battles' can not happen where you just swoop in at obscene speeds into groups of hostiles - do damage to target x and run away at obscene speeds. It will actually require some tactical thinking now which is perhaps just a bit too much work for some people. This finally takes speed back to the pre-kali level where it belongs and was best while at the same time retaining some of the unique benefits of modules added since. The interceptor will once again reign supreme in top end speeds and minmatar will true to form reign supreme at speed of general ship classes such as hacs but all within much more reasonable confines. I for one wholly support this change and although there is some stiff opposition to these changes, it will greatly improve the dynamics of eve going forward on so many levels.



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