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New Dev Blog: Speed Rebalanced by Nozh

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 15 post(s)
Jesse Jamess Caldari Red Tides	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:16:00 - [1261] CCP can you just cut to the real problem and nerf stupidity?
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:16:00 - [1262] Originally by: alterist Originally by: Yaay Originally by: Tempest Kane In fairness atleast they used their titan (-: Actually, we had some nano FCs from the north running the circus that day :-) Yup they had remote control over the titan pilots finger that made him not fit any rigs and forced him to jump to a cyno 200km off the pos while there was 60? hostile caps in the system..... Funny if you knew who lit the cyno and where it was supposed to be at. It's the Economy Stupid
ori16 Black Omega Security Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:17:00 - [1263] i mean wow the last speed nerf was ok i mean i supported it but this goes to far. Your killing the t2 cruiser for minmatar the vaga is a peace of shit without speed and with this comin nerf i better f'in see some mid slots opens for a tank. and heavy missiles i mean seroues they do alot of damage when they hit and not all nano ships can keep the cap at 100% to run the mwd so the missiles do hit and when they do its hitting hard, don't forget when the mwd is also on it blows the sig Throw the roof, also helping the missiles. nerf some more shit well your at it. FFs all people need to do is fit a damp neut and a web and the thing dies. ori16
GO MaZ The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:17:00 - [1264] Edited by: GO MaZ on 25/07/2008 21:20:26 Originally by: Bobby Atlas You are assuming hit and run within the wrong context, hit and run is actually you attack a target that is either isolated or alone - kill it then leave the field of engagement before backup arrives. The changes in the mentioned dev blog will make it so that 'speed tanking fleet battles' can not happen where you just swoop in at obscene speeds into groups of hostiles - do damage to target x and run away at obscene speeds. It will actually require some tactical thinking now which is perhaps just a bit too much work for some people... The only reason this is possible with nanogangs is because people in their 100 man fleets of battleships make stupid mistakes like warping to wrecks, getting bubbled and then seperated from their fleets. You can't just nano into 100 battleships in a 20 man fleet of nanoships and expect to come out alive, that is not the point; preying on ****s who make stupid decisions in a fleet and making them pay for their mistakes (this is, essentially, hit and run - splitting an unmanageable fleet up into groups that you can work down with your limited damage). As for your opinions about the tactics behind what you THINK is nanogotry ("swoop in at obscene speeds into groups of hostiles - do damage to target x and run away at obscene speeds"), maybe you should rethink it a little because fighting gangs of such sizes is rather more complicated than you think Even if this is not what you think of as hit and run, it's much more enjoyable than ***ing about hunting spacktarded instalogging ratters ---
LuthienTinuviel The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:18:00 - [1265] Originally by: Dianabolic Honestly, if you hadn't already noticed yet - CCP know they've got it balanced when they get a 40 page lol'naught going. Keep it up guys! Like they knew what they were doing when they put out those completely reatarded ideas regarding carriers last year and pretty much had to shelve 90% of what they said the were going to do after a 40page(plus) lol'naught thread.... yeah CCP are gods they know all and never make any mistakes .
Wannabehero Caldari Absolutely No Retreat	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:19:00 - [1266] Originally by: Ranger 1 I imagine quite a few tweaks well be tested before this all hits Tranquility, so everyone calm down a bit. As has happened in the past, people tend to whip themselves into a frenzy whenever their "flavor of the month" is threatened to be balanced. Interesting term, flavor of the month. By its very nature it suggests that it will not last forever... people tend to forget that. Speed tanking, in reality, has not achieved such popularity because it is the only answer available to counter blobs. Come on, admit it. Speed tanking is so overwhelmingly popular that even the "blobs" are using it. Its also true that a hefty proportion of the pilots that enjoy high kill/death ratios when speed tanking are no more skilled than any other average pilot... however they do have the money available to throw extremely expensive equipment out there. Read that again. Most speed tankers (the ones enjoying the benefits of Ludicrous Speed as it has been put) do well because of the amount of isk in their wallets, not due to any sudden overwhelming increase in their level of skill. Truth hurts, I know. I'll join you in a group hug after the patch. Skilled pilots will do just fine with these changes, pilots with more isk than skill will get angry and quit or move on to the next flavor of the month. Either way, lets keep in civil. I've had my favorite play style curbed a bit from time to time to make the game more balanced (and truthfully, more enjoyable in the long run). I survived nicely, I'm fairly sure you will too. Quoted for being a level-headed individual and a good post, not some turd screaming his unvalidated opinion as fact, making baseless assumptions from non-existant playtesting, or seeking to use non-relevant arguements to disprove others opinions. -- Don't harsh my mellow
alterist	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:19:00 - [1267] Edited by: alterist on 25/07/2008 21:21:31 Originally by: Bobby Atlas You are assuming hit and run within the wrong context, hit and run is actually you attack a target that is either isolated or alone - kill it then leave the field of engagement before backup arrives. The changes in the mentioned dev blog will make it so that 'speed tanking fleet battles' can not happen where you just swoop in at obscene speeds into groups of hostiles - do damage to target x and run away at obscene speeds. It will actually require some tactical thinking now which is perhaps just a bit too much work for some people. If you think that nano flying against a blob is as easy as you claim you have no clue tbh. Nano flying against blobs is all about separating ships from the group by pulling them out of position or even risking a bump in some casses, done correctly it is a highly skilled and tactical form of pvp and eve will be the worse if it is removed.
Drave McClay GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:20:00 - [1268] THIS IS BULLSHIT
Rezaa Pandemonium Technologies	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:20:00 - [1269] IÆm sorry if this has already been brought up, but I am desperately worried about recons. I know thereÆs going to be a speed nerf to one extent or another. However I would implore CCP to take a close DETTAILED look at the ramification of this nerf on recons. Recons in general have no other option but to speed tank, with the pilgrim being the notable exception. ECM boats being another exception (one could argue that ECM is more effective than speed tanking) In general Recons donÆt have the slots or the cpu, grid or cap to build a effective tank. Killing the speed of this class of ships will #1 Go against the intended roll of the class and #2 It will annihilate the class in general. From reading the blog it appears that they want to implement EVERY single suggestion ever raised to counter the speed issue in ONE SHOT. I can not adequately express how foolish I think this is. Yes I would agree in some cases speed is an issue. But to fly off the handle and pull out the WMD of nerf batÆs is stupid. And tomorrow the NOOBS with be crying when we get back to the TANK and GANK style of game play. It NEVER ENDS. Please donÆt go off half ****ed just to appease the VOCAL MINORITY. Because tomorrow it will be some other ôgame breaking issueö.
Yaay Game-Over The Requiem	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:22:00 - [1270] Edited by: Yaay on 25/07/2008 21:24:40 Originally by: ori16 FFs all people need to do is fit a damp neut and a web and the thing dies. yes, when he's stupid enough to come in range and not get out in the time it takes to lock/damp/neut/web. You ever tried to jump on a group of nano running away from you? Damn near impossible unless you're faster.... So alternative, dock up or battleball until they get bored and run away... oh wait, most nano pilots like orbiting stations at 300 off until someone makes a mistake on warp in or moves just a tad too far out. God knows, I've watched some corps do it for hours at a time in 1 system... that's real fair to the defenders. I remember being in BoB in a 2 hr long fight with PL where I think the total loss count was 3. 3 We battle balled and moved around as a disciplined group, they nano'd . Might as well have been a song and dance. It's the Economy Stupid

Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:22:00 - [1271] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Ranger 1 Actually, no they don't. They simply realize that while a reduction in speed means they may actually be able to hit you from time to time, it doesn't automatically mean that they will be able to do any significant damage to you at the speeds you will STILL be able to travel at. Try again please. What about when those turret based nanoships slow down so they can actually put some damage on a target? Oh look, that 120km long trail of cruise suddenly catches up and hits WHO WOULD'VE THOUGHT! Nano-Zealots don't slow down to hit with their guns, they change their angle of attack. Nano-Vagabonds don't slow down and use their guns to kill their targets unless they have lured their prey into the clear and are not under fire. Normally they maintain speed and tackle while killing with their drones if they are under attack. Nano-Rapiers/Huggins follow the same general rules as Nano-Vaga's but usually at greater range. Nano-Cerbs obviously don't enter into it. Did I miss anything? You know this, you are just putting out a smoke screen to bolster your arguments. Try again.
Zoraya Rouge	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:22:00 - [1272] Originally by: Dungar Loghoth About 90% of the thread was me asking how fast I was going to go in my various ships with the nerf since I'm not good at math Vagabond with 3x OD II (new numbers and stacking), HG Snake Set (24,7%), Zor's Hyperlink, Rouge CY-2, Rouge MY-2, Fully skilled Claymore + Link (25,8%) = ~6500m/sec Vaga with 3x OD II (new numbers and stacking, Zor's Hyperlink, Rouge CY-1, Rouge MY-1 = ~4200m/sec Note: This is without Nanofibers or Polycarbons, as calculating mass is much more tcomplicated, and too late for me atm to do it. So a cheap Vaga doing still 4200 or pimped Vaga 6500 without overheating after the changes? no problem for me tbh.
Psyflame	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:25:00 - [1273] Proposed change is awesome! Caldari should always be able to hit everything without having to worry about range OR tracking. Also, this will promote more mindless blobbing, something of which EvE is obviously in dire need. I'm glad I have been training for capitals instead of spending several months training a HAC that is now useless, but I'm sad my other character spent several months on blasters, now I have to train lasers in order to compete in pvp.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:34:00 - [1274] Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/07/2008 21:34:47 Originally by: Lexi Belle PL tears are...delicious. This is why i never fit fotm. Changes don't effect me all that much, i dont fly nano's and ECM has no tracking. Does sound alot like a missile buff though. Maybe a slight one, just keep in mind. Cruise/heavy missile explosion velocity is 500 ms (I believe around 750ms with max skills). Light missile explosion velocity is 1750ms base. Yeah, missile may catch them more often, but will still do fairly insignificant damage.
GO MaZ The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:36:00 - [1275] Edited by: GO MaZ on 25/07/2008 21:36:11 Originally by: Bobby Atlas Yes cause clearly all that rage in your reply speaks volumes, why not try to instead address some of the fundamental points ccp has posted with valid and tangible rebuttals other than you enjoy nanoing at obscene speeds. Let us face it, ccp has a very valid point that right now the only ceiling on speed is more speed by the opposing force (unless you get a couple of very lucky webs on a target coming at you). Why don't you go on eve search and have a look at the previous posts I've made in this thread (some I made on Korinn btw), most of which have been perfectly reasonable and addressing the original points made in the dev blog; read, THEN post Bobby, your forum-fu needs work ---
Jenny' JoJo Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:38:00 - [1276] Originally by: Luke Lamarr Originally by: Crumplecorn DO NOT WRECK BLASTER SHIPS This needed emphasizing, so I quoted here. How are you gonna stay close to your target with, say, a deimos (3 mids, MWD, scram, web?) And note that this does not exclusively apply to the deimos. And I ain't sure I'd accept "fit MWD and AB" as an answer... Blaster boat fitted with MWD/Scram or AB/Web or Scram/Web. You no longer need three items from Speed/tackle/slow. You only need any 2. If Anything, blasterboats will have better fitting if they switch to AB, since their scram shuts down enemy MWD Refresh to see next real life CCP Sig(25 total)
SoD0EnGine	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:39:00 - [1277] as the guys says small gang and solo play will end . are u looking for a big gang fights ? Fix ur servers and the lagy 0.0 systems and ur petition systems them look for other issues FFS .
Zorda	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:39:00 - [1278] Awesome changes, I'm really looking forward to it.
Psyflame	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:39:00 - [1279] Since we are in the process of breaking game mechanics, can you bring back the 8x heatsink armageddon? OH WAIT. Since you are giving missiles an insane buff can you bring back the dual mwd raven also?
Haradgrim Tyrell Corp INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:40:00 - [1280] Originally by: Elmicker Edited by: Elmicker on 25/07/2008 17:08:29 Originally by: Haradgrim Cerberus is now the best HAC, Raven now the best non-fleet PVP BS, c/d? D. Cerb does ** damage and has a poor tank. Sac's better. Touche, Though that depends on how viable a AB HAM cerb is -- Originally by:** CCP Oveur ...every forum whine feels like a baby pony is getting killed

Narciss Sevar Caldari Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:42:00 - [1281] Just make sure you keep that web nerf in and this all fine by me. A bit overboard but vOv, things get stale if you don't change things once in a while.
Aenis Veros Caldari Alphaflight	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:42:00 - [1282] Originally by: Bobby Atlas The changes in the mentioned dev blog will make it so that 'speed tanking fleet battles' can not happen where you just swoop in at obscene speeds into groups of hostiles - do damage to target x and run away at obscene speeds. It will actually require some tactical thinking now which is perhaps just a bit too much work for some people. You mean to say that the 'groups of hostiles' didn't have ECM, NEUTS, WEBS or fast ships of their own? Don't say there isn't any tactics involved just because you don't know how to counter nanos.
Tzrailasa Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:46:00 - [1283] This is IMHO a good and quite balanced change! However complex it might look, in total I don't really see this as more than a change in how webbing works (incl. making AB's slightly more viable), a slight reduction in MWD speed, speed balancing between ship classes, and a reduction of stacking benefits for speed. For the Blasterthron pilots, I really don't see that you really have anything to worry about. You might not be able to effectively combat frigate sized ship, but as a battleship, you're not supposed to! If you target has a T2 MWD (550% today, 500% if changed), scrambling him will first reduce his speed by about 85% due to the loss of MWD, and you then put a 60% web on him, it'll reduce his speed by a total of just below 94%. Another web will get him to 97.5% speedloss. If the module changes are all done too, he'll even be slower to start with. Mainly, this is a reduction of ludicrous speed as Nozh says. Small fast-moving gangs are still effective today as they've been over the years, EXCEPT when they meet a nano-gang! They'll still be effective after this (even more so), but nano-gangs will have become vulnerable again. Nano'ed gangs has one advantage over normal small gangs, that they can disengage even if they've made a bad call to engage when they shouldn't have. This is simply too great an advantage, and has to be removed. Bad decisions has a penalty for other ship setups, but not so for nanos. A good pilot in a non-nano setup will probably die if he makes a bad call when engaging, while a mediocre nano-pilot will probably not die. That's the main difference, and that has to go. My views are my own. They do not represent the views of my corporation or alliance.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:46:00 - [1284] Originally by: GO MaZ Originally by: Ranger 1 Nano-Zealots don't slow down to hit with their guns, they change their angle of attack. Nano-Vagabonds don't slow down and use their guns to kill their targets unless they have lured their prey into the clear and are not under fire. Normally they maintain speed and tackle while killing with their drones if they are under attack. Nano-Rapiers/Huggins follow the same general rules as Nano-Vaga's but usually at greater range. Nano-Cerbs obviously don't enter into it. Did I miss anything? You know this, you are just putting out a smoke screen to bolster your arguments. Change my angle of attack in a nanozealot? 34km optimal doesnt exactly give you that luxury without reducing your speed to a point where missiles will hit you, dear I'd be laughing at your post right now if I didn't believe that the people responsible for balancing this stuff at CCP agreed with you Aaaaaaaaaanyway I love being baited by trolls but the point here is :care: if speed gets nerfed, I just dont want to see CCP blanketing changes like this when they will never be able to predict all the consequences of these changes To be frank, if you are putting pulses on your nano-Zealot... your doing it wrong. Unless of course you are merely acting as a screen for your nano-Cerbs along with your nano-Rapiers to keep tacklers and lone wolves off of them. In that case if you are in range of the main fleet and actually have to worry about incoming damage... again... your doing it wrong. We also seem to be avoiding talking about the Vagabond suddenly, interesting. Again, you know exactly what I'm saying GO. I'm trying to be gentle, but I think your perception is colored by that Zealot loss to a Crow and a Raven a few days ago. Just relax, you'll still be just as effective as you are now...
TheAdj Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:47:00 - [1285] So is there a Pilgrim/Arazu support group? Hi my name is Adj and I'm a Rapier pilot. ----------------
Gneeznow Minmatar North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:50:00 - [1286] It is a shame that most of this thread is PL going mad because of this when they have not given it a chance, they just see that they are not gonna be able to pwnpwnpwn with nano-zealots and snaked up Ishtar's and curses and now are throwing the rattle out of the pram, most of the PL in this thread fly almost nothing but speed ships with snakes despite them saying otherwise. If you can afford to put expensive mods on a ship to make it go faster now, you'll be able to do it afterwards, and you will still be faster than less expensively equipped ships (post-patch) the truth hurts eh I'll probably be burned alive by my PL brosef's later for this but it is the sad truth that abusive of nano-fleets like this by alliances like mine is what has caused this change.
GoldSnake The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:52:00 - [1287] Originally by: Gneeznow It is a shame that most of this thread is PL going mad because of this when they have not given it a chance, they just see that they are not gonna be able to pwnpwnpwn with nano-zealots and snaked up Ishtar's and curses and now are throwing the rattle out of the pram, most of the PL in this thread fly almost nothing but speed ships with snakes despite them saying otherwise. If you can afford to put expensive mods on a ship to make it go faster now, you'll be able to do it afterwards, and you will still be faster than less expensively equipped ships (post-patch) the truth hurts eh I'll probably be burned alive by my PL brosef's later for this but it is the sad truth that abusive of nano-fleets like this by alliances like mine is what has caused this change. Probaly true tbh, we'll adapt and ***face still so shrug* Wow I'm +1'ing to Gneez =[
RuleoftheBone Minmatar Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:52:00 - [1288] Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/07/2008 22:00:01 Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 25/07/2008 21:53:17 Clever sneaky well-skilled Minmatar pilots will adapt depending on the reality deployed on TQ. And the same clever well-skilled Minmatar pilots with Recon V/HAC IV/V will be headrolling F1-F5 and kesplatting you from hard-tanked 72km+ HAM-burning Sacriledges and other assorted surprises. Because we will still beat the blob. Because we are better than you. What on earth will you whine about and nerf next? HAMS? p.s. Note to CCP on how to eat a whale: One bite at a time as opposed to trying to shove the entire unappetizing pile of blubber down your throat in one fell swoop. p.p.s. Note to CCP regarding "Gilbert Gottfried misdirection": Well played for distracting players from the mess that is lag/sov/blobs/lag/blobs/capshipsonline/blob/lag. p.p.s. Will all the above fit in my ever-so-hoped-for new and improved bio space? Because thats the important thing right there. EDITI don't use speed implants.....does that make me wierd ? "Lead Me..Follow Me..Or get the **** out of my way" General George Patton USA
Viper ShizzIe The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:53:00 - [1289] Originally by: Gneeznow It is a shame that most of this thread is PL going mad because of this when they have not given it a chance, they just see that they are not gonna be able to pwnpwnpwn with nano-zealots and snaked up Ishtar's and curses and now are throwing the rattle out of the pram, most of the PL in this thread fly almost nothing but speed ships with snakes despite them saying otherwise. If you can afford to put expensive mods on a ship to make it go faster now, you'll be able to do it afterwards, and you will still be faster than less expensively equipped ships (post-patch) the truth hurts eh I'll probably be burned alive by my PL brosef's later for this but it is the sad truth that abusive of nano-fleets like this by alliances like mine is what has caused this change. PL 30 man drake gangs with 10 falcons. **** yeah.
BOldMan Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.07.25 21:54:00 - [1290] Arazu a new born.



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