Originally by: Demus DaVet

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You're still replying w/o answering the original question, you do understand that. Yes, I do find it logical that my Ferrari will outrun and outclass your Opel Tigra even both are in the same class of autmobiles (two seaters, sport cars, you name it). if price has no role here... I really don't know what will.

As for your 'real' question you do take out of context that the only thing a vaga or an inty at ludicrous invulnerable speed can do is tackle and maybe web. For intys, that is the purpose of their existence and for vagas it's the only reason worth flying the ship for. It can also be easily countered with a neut or a domi web.

On the other hand, I do not understand why missiles should the end of all weapons, that hits everything always for maximum specialized dmg.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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yes it cuts the tracking unless you can get in range

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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yes it cuts the tracking unless

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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yes it cuts the tracking

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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I am ****ing worthless

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Originally by: Areo Hotah

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Edited by: Areo Hotah on 25/07/2008 13:18:08
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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ok jezz I'll stop talking about blasterboats and just talk about speed, and duh other people might post my killmails but what fun is non-solo PvP when it comes to kills?

running around ammar space solo taking out people running plexes is just fun.

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And your trying to make us believe that out of every one of those bazillions of plex kills you got none of them posted a loss mail?.

Keep talking your making a great case for why its only clueless ******s who want this nerf and how it is not needed.

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ok instead I'll point at the fact that only 30% of all players have ever posted a kil mail or even looked at a forum don't be so full of yourself.

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http://www.battleclinic.com/eve_online/pk/view/player-MotherMoon-kills.html

Here you go post away all your solo km's and prove me wrong.

Or you could stfu its up to you.

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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...
Now that is where is a difference between a non-nano gang and a nanogang. A nanogang can at least try to burst through the enemy fleet and if they are poorly organised engage it. Even if outnumbered 2 to 1. If the defence fleet is competent though, a nanogang will not score kills. Even if the defence fleet is not specifically setup to deal with nanos, with proper tactics they can make it impossible for the nanogang to get any kills. What it will typically end up with is the defence gang sitting on a gate, trying to snipe off Nano-HACs, while the nanofleet hovers at 100km distance trying to pickoff small ships in the enemy fleet that get repped by logistics ships.

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Originally by: CCP Wrangler

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EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.

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Originally by: Matrix Skye

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Edited by: Matrix Skye on 26/07/2008 14:06:31
OMG. Laughing at all the Pandemic Legion, Sniggwaffe, Triumvirate, et al whines! AHAHAHAHAHA LOL

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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sory I still don't care enough anyways back to the game forums are boring. The respect I hold in game is more important than here anyways :P

even with over 8000 posts which give me respect here too doesn't mean I'm always right but this has nothing to do with kills or killmails. what a waste or time.

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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sory I still don't care enough anyways back to the game forums are boring. The respect I hold in game is more important than here anyways :P

even with over 8000 posts which give me respect here too doesn't mean I'm always right but this has nothing to do with kills or killmails. what a waste or time.

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How fortunate that you do not care about the very thing that could actually help validate what you are talking about.

Still not to worry anybody with any actual knowledge about the game knows your a clueless moron anyway.

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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sory I still don't care enough anyways back to the game forums are boring. The respect I hold in game is more important than here anyways :P

even with over 8000 posts which give me respect here too doesn't mean I'm always right but this has nothing to do with kills or killmails. what a waste or time.

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How fortunate that you do not care about the very thing that could actually help validate what you are talking about.

Still not to worry anybody with any actual knowledge about the game knows your a clueless moron anyway.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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sory I still don't care enough anyways back to the game forums are boring. The respect I hold in game is more important than here anyways :P

even with over 8000 posts which give me respect here too doesn't mean I'm always right but this has nothing to do with kills or killmails. what a waste or time.

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How fortunate that you do not care about the very thing that could actually help validate what you are talking about.

Still not to worry anybody with any actual knowledge about the game knows your a clueless moron anyway.

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haha yes you make a great case for yourself.

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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Originally by: sophisticatedlimabean

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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sory I still don't care enough anyways back to the game forums are boring. The respect I hold in game is more important than here anyways :P

even with over 8000 posts which give me respect here too doesn't mean I'm always right but this has nothing to do with kills or killmails. what a waste or time.

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How fortunate that you do not care about the very thing that could actually help validate what you are talking about.

Still not to worry anybody with any actual knowledge about the game knows your a clueless moron anyway.

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haha yes you make a great case for yourself.

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Post you uber solo kms or stfu.

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Originally by: Areo Hotah

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Edited by: Areo Hotah on 25/07/2008 13:18:08
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo

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Originally by: Dray

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Originally by: Areo Hotah

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Edited by: Areo Hotah on 25/07/2008 13:18:08
I am on the receiving end of (AAA) nano-hacs daily.
I have had an invasion of the old TRI in my space.

Observations from me fighting nano gangs:
-nobody takes booster pills
-Claymores are quite rare to see, and tend do die a lot.
-Hardly anyone uses snakes
-There are plenty of ways to kill (part of) a nanogang, without everybody being in a Rapier or Huginn. They bring a specialized ship to do something, so you have to do something specialized to counter them. Nothing wrong with that. No standard gang (some inties, ewar and DPS) should be able to counter 95% of enemy gang types. Eve should be rock-paper-scissors
-I like fighting them. Some people have even begun to count their kills in polycarbs/week.

I think there is nothing wrong with HACs going 3-5km/s.

I think there is nothing wrong with players investing 1Bn isk in snakes and going 8km/s.

I agree there is something wrong that practically every single HAC can go faster than a standard fitted inty.

There is nothing wrong with having speeds that makes you more or less immune to missiles and drones. These offensive weapons take minimal player skill to use (hence their popularity for mission runners), while good players can avoid the damage of turrets, simply by manual piloting (and vice versa, a good player in a turret boat can maximize his damage potential). A better solution would be to have significantly reduced damage, but not 0, for hurling missiles and drones at fast targets.

I think you should never ever nerf warfare links, as they are really a team-based module, and nerfing decreases the incentive to field one is bad. A good nano gang has a Claymore, so they go even faster. So what? Kill the Claymore first.

Nerfing all at once is bad (damps anyone?).
Just start by adjusting the polycarbs to be worse than t2 nanofibers, and modify the 3 "speed" stats (mass, max velocity, agility) into 2, so more stacking penalties get applied.

Making warp scramblers useful is good (maybe do something with warpcore stabs too).

Changing a web from 90% to 60% is a 400% nerf (max speed of webbed target from 10% to 40%); nothing in the history of eve has been nerfed so hard.

Once again, I fear that the Devs are listening too much to whines, without seeing the real problem. I think they should have focussed their time solely on their last "mission statement":
Guerrilla warfare must remain a viable combat tactic.
Please make more ways to make this possible, than simply nano'ing it up.

Cause:
Skilled players should be better than defending blob in crap ships.
Skilled defenders should be able to beat cookie-cutter setups.

Areo

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You sir are a rare individual, thank you for a good well informed post based on experience, there's a lot of clueless dull witted lazy c*nts that would do well to follow your example but i think its too late, but i'd like to thank you for renewing my faith in intelligent thought based on experience and practical application.

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Originally by: MotherMoon

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http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=831860

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Originally by: TheG2

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I've seen lots of complaints that blasterboats would be nerfed by these changes, however I don't think it changes much.

For example:
Battleship is moving at 800m/s towards its target, it comes within 10km, web hits, it slows to 500m/s by the time he hits the 7.5km/s scrambler where his MWD gets cut, he continues to drift closer to his target (because he has also cut off his targets MWD and webbed him with his own web/scrambler) and well within to optimal range. The fight is now exactly as before except web is slightly less effective, so if the smaller ship is using an AB instead of a MWD, they choose their fit correctly and therefore should have an advantage in this case.

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Originally by: kOZMIC sNIPER

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Nazh just admit it, instead of talking about a real solutions you guys where busy going down on each other. When the rest of the devs came to work to figure out what you guys came up with,within those five hours. You guys were put on the spot! You were pressured into making these dumb suggestions. We will all forgive you and we will back you with CCP. We will make sure you don't get fired, just come out of the cloest and we can move past this incident. Tell us what really happen in that meeting room.

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Originally by: kOZMIC sNIPER

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I would have to say I learned alot these last two days seeing PL right all this intel on ships and what they do. I beat most people have no idea on these numbers and that is why they lose to good PVP groups like PL. PL you guys are truly top notch and you have my repect after this is all said and done.

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