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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Khamal Jolstien
Caldari Product Number 3
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Posted - 2008.11.17 21:05:00 -
[391]
Originally by: KTOZ Edited by: KTOZ on 17/11/2008 18:48:17
Originally by: El Yatta
No. You're doing it wrong. When I say "if you want tackle+missile choose typhoon or sacrelidge" I do NOT mean "caldari suck but its balacned cos you can cross train". That would not be right -all races should have value in their own right.
When I say "use sacrlidge if you want this" it means if you had wanted the versatility of tackle and tank then you should have chosen early to do x. If you choose Y, you need to play like Y are good at - in this case, caldari in a gang.Its not "Y sucks, train x", its if you want to play like X, train X, dont choose Y then try to play it like X, then moan like a whiny ***** when it sucks.
Caldari have never been good at solo on their big missile boats. You can argue away, but the truth is that ALL solo got a big nerf, and might as well be dead. You are wrong if you think missiles aren't balanced because of a difficulty of soloing on CERTAIN boats on ONE race. Why cant they be "self-sufficient"? Well why should they? All races are different. I needn't remind you that you have turret boats and fast boats as well.
Your last point is nonsense -all missile boats have ROF or damage bonuses or both.
Yes i m clearly saying i want to fit a scrambler and web and tank and dmg, which is my right as all of the other races lol.
"if you had wanted the versatility of tackle and tank then you should have chosen early to do x." When i choosed caldari, you could hang around in a torp raven with only 1 scram and no other rubishness, and have a proper pvp kill ships or any size or lose your ship to another ship who s doing the same thing as you..
so i choosed the x many years ago. maxed the skills and then x become Z and later today it become y that you are talkin about. so these skills and sp's are wasted today is that clear?
If not read Odessima's post right above you cant not understand mine...
Quote : "Why cant they be "self-sufficient"? Well why should they? All races are different."
Are you serious?? how long you have been in this game to decide what role caldari have? or to decide what role it should have?? I tell you it was possible to have a proper pvp around in a bs or bc whatever you want with only 1 scram + web and shield tank.. It wasnt wrote on caldari ships like :" if you wanna fly this you will need some other support ships to scram web and paint, if you dont have that sit in a station.." that is new.. atleast the fact it got worst is new...
Every race in this game can and should be able to be self sufficient which means scram web tank and dmg ( not beeing the best on everything but do everything), tanking and making dmg while able to scram is not a race specific fact, it s duable for 3/4 of the races in the game, and it was like this for the 4th one as well but now not anymore so stop saying that caldari cant fly alone or shouldnt scram web and tank or shoudnt do better dmg and dont try to fix it some roles from your mind.
drakes, nh's, raven's, cerbs were self sufficient ships, NH, drakes and cerbs were/maybe still are able to make somethings on their own as they have resist bonus's they can fit scram or speed mod's but the dmg become crap for them this time..
/Me stops here argueing with you, you have everything infront of your eyes to understand if you want to understand.. but if you dont it s not becoz you are right, missiles are perfect as they are and not underpowered at all, or caldari should not scram, web or use speed and tank at same time, it s one or another for them (wtf?? )..
Never thought I'd say this to a tri but, /thread |
Roman legionnaire's
AssHat Hq
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Posted - 2008.11.18 07:47:00 -
[392]
signed
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7Genius
Gallente Damage Distribution Incorporated Privateer Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.18 14:35:00 -
[393]
BEST NERF EVER!!! |
Murina
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.11.18 16:17:00 -
[394]
Edited by: Murina on 18/11/2008 16:20:04
Originally by: Odessima
Still has 1100DPS and the same tank as my Raven (930DPS) with torps, still tackles fine, can fit a sensor booster which my raven cant without changing my tank, did I mention thats with 2 damage mods in that mega fit compared to 3 in my raven for more dps.
Ok here is the thing bud a MEGA may have 1100dps on EFT but the truth is you will never get 1100 dps in eve and not only that but the actual sweet spot for that DPS is minute compared to the 30km ish? range of torps. Not only that but there is plenty of ships in eve that cannot solo well the raven is just one of them.......
Missiles may get a reduction in dmg due to speed and sig but then gunships get a reduction of dps depending massively on range and transversal speed. |
ZAUBl
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Posted - 2008.11.19 01:57:00 -
[395]
Signed
nerf missels against small targets like a frig/cruser is ok but bs speed tank torp or cruise what a joke....
ccp have to change this u have to hit a bs for the full damage.
for my part i will look what ccp do after long long train for a golem for nothing since qr
if ccp dont care about our view they seems to dont need my money |
Odessima
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.19 12:31:00 -
[396]
Originally by: Murina Edited by: Murina on 18/11/2008 16:20:04
Originally by: Odessima
Still has 1100DPS and the same tank as my Raven (930DPS) with torps, still tackles fine, can fit a sensor booster which my raven cant without changing my tank, did I mention thats with 2 damage mods in that mega fit compared to 3 in my raven for more dps.
Ok here is the thing bud a MEGA may have 1100dps on EFT but the truth is you will never get 1100 dps in eve and not only that but the actual sweet spot for that DPS is minute compared to the 30km ish? range of torps. Not only that but there is plenty of ships in eve that cannot solo well the raven is just one of them.......
Missiles may get a reduction in dmg due to speed and sig but then gunships get a reduction of dps depending massively on range and transversal speed.
So heres the thing, it may be according to EFT but INGAME there is no MAJOR CHANGE as tested on my Gallente Character ie just so you get it! Not a butt load of difference, compared to my Caldari Character which is noticably less than what it was, which was less than my Gallente Character in the first place before the patch....is that clear enough or do I have to draw you a picture. Im not talking about EFT comparisons, im talking ingame.
Basically although I have T2 Siege missiles Trained I may as well use faction or standard torps because there is now no real benefit of Using rage at all, and precision....yeah right
I am not talking about soloing a raven, I have never bothered to try soloing a raven for a long long time....
Does Void ammo need looking at use it does, but this thread isnt about Void ammo
Thats a thought maybe I can bribe someone with a picture of a spider.
And quite frankly I am not your BUD, I am well aware of the ingame capabilities of both ships as I fly both types on different Characters and my Caldari pilot is better specced than my Gallente one for those specific ships. And it isnt just Torpedoes that are suffering from problems either, but I am not directly comparing them atm to my other characters |
Aquestria
Intergalactic Peace Organization Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.11.19 13:58:00 -
[397]
signed..
this is a stupid nerf, everyone know's that missile boats are used by mission runners not pvp'ers.
the only thing this nerf has done is to annoy mission runners just for the sake of creating a nerf.
there's a saying "DONT FIX WHAT ISNT BROKE"
Maybe CCP should remember this when tweeking with things and consentrate on fixing existing bugs rather than nerfing stuff all day long. |
Odessima
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.19 17:33:00 -
[398]
Edited by: Odessima on 19/11/2008 17:33:05
Originally by: Aquestria signed..
this is a stupid nerf, everyone know's that missile boats are used by mission runners not pvp'ers.
the only thing this nerf has done is to annoy mission runners just for the sake of creating a nerf.
there's a saying "DONT FIX WHAT ISNT BROKE"
Maybe CCP should remember this when tweeking with things and consentrate on fixing existing bugs rather than nerfing stuff all day long.
Im sorry but I PVP in missile ships all the time, and they should be beter than they were and are for PVP, and shouldnt just be looked at by the masses as PVE ships |
Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 06:45:00 -
[399]
Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 20/11/2008 06:48:20 the fact alone that a majority of eve consider missiles to be for PVE purposes only, detracts to the basic idea that they(missiles) aren't sufficent enough to PVP in. That alone would raise most concerns with the fact that an entire weapon system is gimped against others. This being before QR... and now after the patch, with missiles being worse, your justification is that missiles are for PVE only.
Sadly i believe this was not so much an aim at missile nerf, as it was a stealth reliance on bringing target painters back as a legit form of acceptable EWAR, just as RSD and ECM.
Honestly I dont have a problem with it the nerf AS MUCH, had they come out and stated that. But for god sake, BS vs BS warfare shouldnt require something to increase the sig of a 1m/s BS just so it can hit for full dmg, let alone if that BS is moving full speed without ANY propulsion mods. Just as guns are different from missiles, sometimes they get their excellent blows, sometimes they get glancing blows. Where as missiles have a cliff, before the cliff you can ONLY do max dmg w/ multiple painters or a 0m/s BS, after the cliff they do exactly 0dmg. But this discussion shouldnt delve back into missiles vs guns. The fact these arguments exsisted BEFORE this missile nerf, they still are the same exact arguements after.
Earlier i already showed how the shield tanking BS's that are a 6mid 5low layout are PVP gimped in most instances requiring 3 pvp mods(1.ab/mwd 2. point 3. painter/web) but only having 2 slots in which to pull it off.
Where as the majority of BS's are armor tankers, which are also a majority of gun ships, that are a 7 low 4 mid setup, which allows for the 3 pvp mods plus 1 extra slot (cap, eccm, second web, sensor booster, second cap booster)
Both the 6/5 shield Bs's and the 4/7 armor tank Bs's in most instances can do their tank w/ 2 dmg mods sometimes only 1.
The problem is if you give the raven that 7 mid, you seriously give it a chance of an amazing tank beyond almost every other BS in the game, including the teir 3's, if it wasnt given a PVP focus, or didnt have to worry about fitting the needed PVP mods due to a support fleet. That would create an imbalance.
Thats the basic problem at hand - CCP wants you to use a support fleet for PVPing, maybe even for PVE. Coincidence that this lines up with a new power of 2 advert?... Just after receiving the harsh backlash of retired/canceled accounts due to ghost training gankage. Solo BS pvp is a dying art, let alone other solo work except for a small portion of ships they havent nerfed yet.
I cant wait till t3 BS's come out, I want a 1 highslot BS, called the "nerf bat" - The dmg output of this ship well surpasses any other ship in this game
------ People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW" |
Another Forum'Alt
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Posted - 2008.11.20 12:38:00 -
[400]
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Beepus
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Posted - 2008.11.20 14:49:00 -
[401]
Edited by: Beepus on 20/11/2008 14:58:37 SIGNED
ive played this game for a while now. call me boring but i get my kicks from sitting there blasting npcs with my caldari character and zipping around at daft m/s in my inty. Thanks ccp u just destroyed most of that fun. For over 2 years i have honed this character in on caldari missiles and boats and as far as i can tell you have just decimated a lot of that training. When i think of the amount of money i have piled into this, like many others will have done (some more so) the prospect of retraining this character to get back where i was is stupid economy. I can understand some of the aspects to the inty and tackling patches, the missiles i do not and this is getting perilously close to being canceled (if i hadnt already put 6 months on 3 alts) and i assure i have played little else all year long. CCP sort this STUPID missile nerf out or refund my money or give me the 10mil skill points (approx) to redistribute into useful skills. This nerf is so poorly thought out, as people have said guns have many advantages pre-patch compared to missiles, so if the angle is pvp is it not the guns that need reducing? You can say that I should use drones more, maybe, so make the drone bays bigger (myrm 150m3 drake 25m3?!). Ok screw the explosion velocity stuff up, so make the target painters work more effectively so i dont have to swap all my lows for bcu's to get to where i WAS. sry im going on, but this has SERIOUSLY narked me off like no other unnecessary nerf before. You have wasted my time and money, thanks |
Gunns AbeLazin
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Posted - 2008.11.20 18:57:00 -
[402]
/Signed |
Tempest Inferno
Davy Jones Locker Einherjar Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.20 20:41:00 -
[403]
I believe the nerf was long over due but not to this level. The explosion radius should be set AT A MINIMUM to the HIGHEST BASE speed of that class of ship. A good place imo would be at base speed plus L2 speed skills. This will allow the computation to work a lot better at adjusting speed to damage.
thank you for your time. |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2008.11.21 01:26:00 -
[404]
When a Jaguar can own an Assault launcher equiped Cerberus that is flown by a pilot with more or less maxed skills for missiles and shield tanking then something isn't right.
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Eternal Error
Exitus Acta Probant
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Posted - 2008.11.21 04:03:00 -
[405]
Meh, just repeal the whole patch. Turret boats got hit hard too, deal with it.
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Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.21 09:42:00 -
[406]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson When a Jaguar can own an Assault launcher equiped Cerberus that is flown by a pilot with more or less maxed skills for missiles and shield tanking then something isn't right.
You must have been doing something very wrong for this to have happened. |
Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2008.11.21 16:50:00 -
[407]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson When a Jaguar can own an Assault launcher equiped Cerberus that is flown by a pilot with more or less maxed skills for missiles and shield tanking then something isn't right.
You must have been doing something very wrong for this to have happened.
I did nothing wrong as I was the Jag pilot and it was with repeated testing on sisi.
The Cerb pilot is one of the best I have known and he even tried kinetic precisions as well as CN bloodclaws.
It's not just us that have found this to be the case either!
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Blastil
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Posted - 2008.11.21 18:21:00 -
[408]
I find the missle nerf excellent. I can now tank Guristas rats in a BC on the same level as I tank gun-based rats. Adittionally, from everything I've seen (and I've been out ratting with some mates in a raven) they can instapop the frigs moving at full speed no problem. Sure he fits a target painter.
What this HAS done is put Caldari ships in line with the ability of galente and minmatar ships when it comes to ratting and PVP, where the ability for torps to hit frigates for full damage was ENDING the usefullness of ships that were smaller than cruisers and NOT speed tanked. This nerf did more to end nano fleets than the nano nerf. |
Rock'n'Roll Lady
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Posted - 2008.11.21 20:11:00 -
[409]
/signed |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
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Posted - 2008.11.21 22:36:00 -
[410]
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson
Originally by: Gypsio III
Originally by: Shaemell Buttleson When a Jaguar can own an Assault launcher equiped Cerberus that is flown by a pilot with more or less maxed skills for missiles and shield tanking then something isn't right.
You must have been doing something very wrong for this to have happened.
I did nothing wrong as I was the Jag pilot and it was with repeated testing on sisi.
The Cerb pilot is one of the best I have known and he even tried kinetic precisions as well as CN bloodclaws.
It's not just us that have found this to be the case either!
Getting in range of the Jag = doing it wrong, tbh. From my experience, AML Cerb casually slaughters all frigates.
But even in a straight slugfest at point-blank range, with an unwebbed ABing Jag (which can't actually close on a MWD-fit Cerberus, and if it uses MWD to do so then it just dies), I'm having difficulty modelling a sensible Jag fit than can survive for more than a couple of minutes of kinetic AML fire - which just isn't long enough to deal enough damage to cut through any kind of tanked Cerb's tank.
So I'd like to know the fits, tbh. |
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Undeadguy
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Posted - 2008.11.21 23:28:00 -
[411]
Signed. I have had to hang up my mission hat for perma mining. I dont wanna retrain new skills just so i can friggin do missions. CCP Please revert (or find a medium) for this please.
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Hammerlock
Mentat Assassins
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Posted - 2008.11.22 08:47:00 -
[412]
It sucks what can I say...
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Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.11.23 05:57:00 -
[413]
its obvious that CCP wants us to adapt and have to fit target painters to do full dmg for caldari. they made a reason to require it, not just make it easier.
on that note... training amarr bs lvl 5. since everything else is basically nerfsd to hell. Seeing as I have already laid out the problem with caldari and the midpoints for pvp ------ People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW" |
Elektrea
SniggWaffe
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Posted - 2008.11.23 06:16:00 -
[414]
this is your nano nerf, you guys brought it on your self ----------
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Odessima
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.23 09:12:00 -
[415]
Originally by: Elektrea this is your nano nerf, you guys brought it on your self
How is that, obviously you think that its only missile users that were only complaining about nanoing, not the Capitals, not amarr ships, not gallente ships, yes thats right it must have been those rotten Caldari PVP missiles ships that apparently are (so Ive been told only good for PVE), and of course we should have all apparently gone and trained so that we could nano our ships because yes you guessed it, we should all be flying only ships that can be effectively nanoed, and everyone who doesnt do it must be a loser cause they dont want to.
In actual fact you got nano nerfed cause it is actually a fact that you guys bought it upon yourselves, 1 or 2 nano ships wasnt the problem its just the fact that it was becoming the only viable ship to fly, and I am quite sure that CCP on its own are quite able to realise that they dont want Eve to go in that direction.
Not everyone who uses missiles is *****ing about the fact that we have trouble hitting frigates with Torpedo's |
Borneous
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Posted - 2008.11.23 18:11:00 -
[416]
I just post my message to say that I do not like this nerf. And that i'm considering to stop playing EVE when my gametime expires.
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Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2008.11.23 23:42:00 -
[417]
Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 23/11/2008 23:42:12 exactly there are different groups of missile users that want missiles retweaked. Some want the whole patch put back, others just want some numbers redone.
1. Tears that my BS guns dont hit frigs/interceptors 2. Group that says as yes 1 more pvp midslot mod needed on missile ships, now where to put it 3. BS vs BS warfare just gimped missiles even more so. Even w/ the web nerf, missile boats fail next to gunnery boats fit for pvp most of the time.
I have no problem w/ speed and sig radius coming into effect for missile damage, it should of been that way in the first place.... its so many other issues surrounding it and some of the base values they choose for missile explosion radius and velocity. Where is the missile users lowslot version of a tracking enhancer?
My adapt and overcome for this is fine, it just killed one of the ways i loved to fly - solo in a BS w/ missiles and actually have a good chance of surviving.
Now its back to flying my wetpaper dps vulture and nighthawks, or fly blaster/gun ships... and im leaning more towards guns neways. Whats sad is the amount of idiot carebear n00bs that fill these threads, or make new threads, full of whine that their missiles do crap dmg against mission frigs and somehow think the pvp missile community agrees with them. ------ People Say Im paranoid because I have a gun, I say I dont have to be paranoid because I have a gun.
Garmon - "I LOK ON TO ROMULAN WARBIRD AND GO POW POW POW" |
Bobinoo
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Posted - 2008.11.24 01:29:00 -
[418]
/signed
My nighthawk is nothing compared to my absolution.
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Amoxi Cillian
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Posted - 2008.11.24 20:56:00 -
[419]
All a carrier has to do is move to avoid Citadel Torpedo damage! Same with every other missile I take it... Making missiles only effective when hostile target it stationary.
¼¼
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GatoOFruits
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Posted - 2008.11.24 21:17:00 -
[420]
/signed
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