Why?

And in that time we've seen:

Tech 3 battlecruisers
T3 battlecruisers
Destroyer buff
Blaster/railgun buff

So when do Hulks get some love to counter this?

And in that time we've seen:

Tech 3 battlecruisers
T3 battlecruisers
Destroyer buff
Blaster/railgun buff

So when do Hulks get some love to counter this?

Keep talking

Then which attribute of the mining ships supports your claim?

Is it their tank, is it their speed, their manoeuvrability or their ability to dock at a station?

So when do Hulks get some love to counter this?

Ego whines

Because it's a ship that can mine 3000 m3 of ore per minute. It's ridiculously powerful for mining - that power comes at the expense of any real combat capability.

Not all mining ships can mine 3000m3/min. Only two can where one of them costs 300m ISKs. It is not ridiculously powerful for mining.

I have no proof

Not all mining ships can mine 3000m3/min. Only two can where one of them costs 300m ISKs. It is not ridiculously powerful for mining.

While the high cost of a Hulk is some incentive to gank it to pad killboards, I think we both know that this is not the main reason for the large number of players doing it. Most are doing it because, if properly done, the value of the module drops make it profitable... not the value of the ship hull that got destroyed.

https://twitter.com/#!/CCP_Diagoras/status/179947277178241025

When Hulks are the most popular shiptype in the game, I see little need for a buff.

I wouldn't worry about him too much Darth, Tippia rather enjoys stringing along the trolls who think they are getting Tip worked up because he keeps responding.

Tippia will outlast them, much to their disgust, and in the meantime letting their post history show without a doubt that they are nothing more than a troll.

And it is followed closely by the pod.

But seriously, we are not talking about buffs here. We are talking about the reasons for why it needs ships to be as weak as they are while EVE is a PvP game. Who likes to flying a mining ship? I know I do not. You can talk about how the game needs to be, but one needs to be fair and talk about it. No one cares for people who just say that it has to be like this without having a good reason for it. For example, rookies should start in weak ships, because they need to learn a lot about EVE and its players, its organizations and how to fit in. You cannot give them a strong ship at start or else you have them rampaging all over the place. So if you can then give reasons why miners need to be the designated victims in EVE.

I think we have many victims every day for plenty of reasons and I see no demand to create a ship class only to have some more. I see the weak tanks of the mining ships as a design flaw in the concept of EVE as being a PvP game. It does not need ships for victims.

I can ignore anything I don't like, and if you prove it, I will still ignore it and then ask for proof.

But seriously, we are not talking about buffs here. We are talking about the reasons for why it needs ships to be as weak as they are while EVE is a PvP game.

I ignore anything I don't like

It's more like a sword and board tank in a medievall MMO. They stand there silly and unmovable, the others look at them, ignore them and move on.

And that's why many sh!t fit their exhumers. More yield (fitting harvesting upgrades is easier with rest T1) and way way less profitable for the gankers.

Tell me how strong they should be then.

Because that weakness (which isn't nearly as huge as some want to claim GÇö the thing can outtank a fair number of actual combat ships) is what you'd expect from a resource extraction vehicle ...

It still remains a fact. In a fleet the Hulk cannot fullfil it's intended use, as it is required to tank for survivabilty.

Name any other ship that gimps it's role withing a fleet, by tanking to the max for survivabilty. The fact that the ganker has first dibs on engagement, already puts the hulk at a disadvatage.

And please. Do not use the "Combat" arguement. All ships are in a combat zone. The tank on all ships should reflect this. As standard. Also you can argue All combat ships have a minimum of 2 defensive mechanisms some 3. The hulk, has the lowest of these mechanisms.

Now I am not saying the Hulk needs a buff. But it is not in a good place. It is only popular because there is not a choice of top end mining ships. Most miners fly a Hulk. How does it compare with all 4 T3 BC's or standard BC's added together. Also Mining probably has the largest amount of people doing it, for iskie making.

The cost of the Hulk does affect the ganking amount. there is no denying that. But it should not ever reflect it's performance. The value of a product is what people are prepared to pay for it. nothing more.

As in all cases solo play should require you to find a happy medium, between role and survivabilty. The Hulk does this exceptionally well. I cannot argue with that. Unfortunately buffing the Hulk for fleet play, will give solo play a buff it does not need. Added to this. Most miners will use any buff to tank, to increase yield.

All in all it is the mentality of most miners that need to change. Play as the situation dictates.


o7

It still remains a fact. In a fleet the Hulk cannot fullfil it's intended use, as it is required to tank for survivabilty.

Name any other ship that gimps it's role withing a fleet, by tanking to the max for survivabilty. The fact that the ganker has first dibs on engagement, already puts the hulk at a disadvatage.

And please. Do not use the "Combat" arguement. All ships are in a combat zone. The tank on all ships should reflect this. As standard. Also you can argue All combat ships have a minimum of 2 defensive mechanisms some 3. The hulk, has the lowest of these mechanisms.

Now I am not saying the Hulk needs a buff. But it is not in a good place. It is only popular because there is not a choice of top end mining ships. Most miners fly a Hulk. How does it compare with all 4 T3 BC's or standard BC's added together. Also Mining probably has the largest amount of people doing it, for iskie making.

The cost of the Hulk does affect the ganking amount. there is no denying that. But it should not ever reflect it's performance. The value of a product is what people are prepared to pay for it. nothing more.

So you fly a gimped megathron in a fleet?

You asked for examples of ships which, if fitted for a tank, are gimped in their role.

I provided ******* tons of them you twit.

No, I don't fly a gimped megathron in a fleet.

I fit it the way it's supposed to be fitted - for its role.

Sometimes, that means I die. That is not indicative of the Megathron being broken.

It indicates instead that I sustained more damage than my EHP plus remote reps could sustain.

This is an utterly infantile argument.

Please read the post again

It still remains a fact. In a fleet the Hulk cannot fullfil it's intended use, as it is required to tank for survivabilty.

Name any other ship that gimps it's role withing a fleet, by tanking to the max for survivabilty.

The cost of the Hulk does affect the ganking amount.

No, I do not expect it.

It still remains a fact. In a fleet the Hulk cannot fullfil it's intended use, as it is required to tank for survivabilty.

Its intended use is to mine which it does better then any other ship.

Name any other ship that gimps it's role withing a fleet, by tanking to the max for survivabilty. The fact that the ganker has first dibs on engagement, already puts the hulk at a disadvatage.

You do not need to tank your hulk for max survivabilty, its called balance. Also you can use the same argument for many other types of industrial ships.

And please. Do not use the "Combat" arguement. All ships are in a combat zone. The tank on all ships should reflect this. As standard. Also you can argue All combat ships have a minimum of 2 defensive mechanisms some 3. The hulk, has the lowest of these mechanisms.

In which case I want my noob ship to have more tank, same with my shuttles

Now I am not saying the Hulk needs a buff. But it is not in a good place. It is only popular because there is not a choice of top end mining ships. Most miners fly a Hulk. How does it compare with all 4 T3 BC's or standard BC's added together. Also Mining probably has the largest amount of people doing it, for iskie making.

A hulk is not a combat ship so do not compare it with other combat ships.

The cost of the Hulk does affect the ganking amount. there is no denying that. But it should not ever reflect it's performance. The value of a product is what people are prepared to pay for it. nothing more.

I have seen many Tengu's ganked by ships worth less then a 10th of its price, does this mean that tengu's need to be buffed?