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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Haldane IV
Einstein's Dreams
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:52:00 -
[931]
Originally by: DaiTengu ..............
The guy put in his resignation to CCP and it was rejected.
[/quote
I don't recall seeing where T20 offered to resign, can I trouble you for a link?
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Cheeba Don
Ihatalo Navy Ihatalo Cartel
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:52:00 -
[932]
but but I thought the carebears in empire were the problem?? :P
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Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:54:00 -
[933]
Originally by: Lord WarATron For future, there should be a name and shame for people guilty of this. Hall of Infamy
There already is: Having a Bob-corp in your Employment History.
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Canjaio
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:55:00 -
[934]
CCP knew this problem existed for a long time before they did any banning. They knew about it long enough to create a new game mechanic, alchemy. The knew long enough to test and impliment it and give it a few weeks to get settled into the game. Alchemy is just the bandaid to cover up the expected turmoil in the T2 market and to minimize emorage quit fallout in the masses.
Someone has probably already posted this but I'm not reading 30 pages of thread to find out.
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Johncrab
Minmatar XBeyond
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:55:00 -
[935]
Edited by: Johncrab on 11/12/2008 18:56:03
Originally by: Decimus Octavius
from eve-online.de comes this
Quote: Hello Every one
I would like to tell you a short eve story Today all of my EvE Online accounts were banned I was sure that this day would come. What surprises me is that it took CCP this long to catch up with me. Even though they knew about it.
But now to the story:
The time is November 2004. The EvE Universe is excited about the Starbase patch. The new System Sov. is introduced. The face of Eve has changed. How right they are.
Two weeks after Patch day we built our first POS. We wanted a piece of the moon mining pie and also wanted to figure out how it word as none of us knew exactly. After our first try we were aggravated that we could get it working and decided to try again the next day to finish our project. The next day to our amazment we found that the silos in our unfinished POS chain were full. After a short time we found out the reason for this phenomenon. The POS system was BUGGED. Of course a petition was sent to CCP to make them aware of this situation and the answer was sobering.
ôYour petition has been receivedö CLOSE
But the phenomenon was still there. After a week we decided what to do. We built a POS network that included over a dozen POSÆs in lowsec and checked the market prices. After a short look we decided on Ferrogel and Fermionic Condensates.
The Story today.
The expanse of this so far is probably lost on most people so I would like to make a few facts clear. In the past 4 jears we are talking about ISK in value of 2.500.000.000.000 ISK to 3.000.000.000.000 ISK. ThatÆs 2500 û 3000 billion. Everyone that owns a T2 item can bet that it was build in part from resources due to this phenomenon. At this point I would like to thank CCP for making it possible to buy GTCÆs with ISK. So much about us.
What the other 3 large alliances did with this knowledge is unknown to me. But I can tell you that weÆve sat with coverts in front of POS chains and watched it happen.
Titans are expensive !
In closing.
Some IÆm sure will say ôwell are you proud of yourself?ö or ôYou cheater-exploiterö I only have one thing to say to that. . This issue allowed me to play Eve how and when I liked. It didnÆt matter what item or what happened in Eve. I spent ISK with out thinking about the price. I havenÆt paid a cent for any of my Eve accounts for 4 years now. And have had many amusing moments reading posts in EVE-O.
I donÆt know you and to be honest Eve and most of you I could care less about. But my thanks go out to you all, you were wonderful statistics on this virtual stage.
Regards,
The Writer
If this is true and CCP know's about it from day 1, then this isn't a case of exploit but a conspiracy and an inside job. You best come clean on this one CCP, this is starting to look even uglier than the T20 affair. |
Adam C
Caldari H A V O C Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 18:59:00 -
[936]
Extremely disappointing that Evoke was involved with this and CCP let it happen for so long.
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Serrin Shamandar
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:00:00 -
[937]
Originally by: Madius
If CCP has a halfway decent logging/tracking system (and they better) it won't matter if POSes get offlined.
Christ, people rag on Blizzard, but they can pull up things you said months ago in chat or trace money/item transfers across dozens of accounts and characters, you'd hope CCP would be at least be able to see who was benefiting from the resources beyond the accounts directly tied to the exploiting.
Ug, please don't hold up Blizzard's auditing as an example of something praiseworthy. Do you know the significance of the word "ruststorm"? That's a shining example of process and auditing failure.
Originally by: Mariokoli Mianana
Check out this Bruce Schneier article regarding audits. It is a great article about something that applies in this very scenario.
When something makes it through QA and ends up released and exploitable, the thing that will help to ensure that people are playing fair and report, rather than use, possible exploits is to have a good auditing system.
Using the segments from the Schneier article, I'd have to say that CCP would fall in the middle category. They were able to reverse and use audits to figure out who had been doing what and where, but they didn't have valuable warning flag audits for this sort of thing. I think that the "Research & Statistics" group should not only be focusing on understanding micro/macro-economics through EVE, but also in developing prophylactic audit warnings, noting when something goes out of band and warrants investigation without relying almost solely on whistle-blowers filing petitions.
Quoting a Schneier article even, nice! I'm still loving digging through Skein and hunting down rumors on Threefish...
On topic, I think this is probably the single most useful post in this thread CCP! I was thinking of it while going through this threadnaught (honest!), but hadn't gotten to the end yet.
Setting up some variable min/max variations (with/by volume by region) or possibly even buildcost/sanity built tests on buildable items as stored procs to run on fairly regular basis (during downtime?) to flag serious anomalies should at least be considered. Maybe the methods I listed might need to be tweaked, etc, but prophylactic audit warnings like Mariokoli suggested would be another great tool in spotting item duping and market funny business that could help spot ISK sellers/buyers.
Stuff off the market/contract system I'm not sure about. I'm sure it's highly variable, but get with your Econ Phd who knows his higher maths and numbers to come up with something - it's doable, even if it does just generate a warnings for an employee to filter through for "serious stuff".
Lastly, the people who are criticizing, accusing, and making decisions based solely off internet rumor (the 4 year peeps) are making me want to either laugh or cry - I'm not sure which yet.
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Millenia Fallenwing
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:00:00 -
[938]
Edited by: Millenia Fallenwing on 11/12/2008 19:02:18 Band of Brothers alliance have always known about exploits and have always known and used them to their advantage. 20 Large towers in 3 different systems. With the Same setup as listed how to get this exploit.
So i would request. Can someone please prove that BoB did not exploit this, nor were they involved with this. I have no solid proof. However all of the towers are exact same setup, in 3 different systems. Over the past 6 months HUGE amounts of dyspro has been stolen by directors defecting. So only asking who is involved and how that effects other alliance growth.
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Zeta LaFrege
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:01:00 -
[939]
Originally by: Cheeba Don but but I thought the carebears in empire were the problem?? :P
haha this made me chuckle. After all the crap empire-huggers have had, its some players in 0.0 who have made billions off an exploit.
at least the empire-huggers spent hours of every day grinding missions legitimately....
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MyOwnSling
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:02:00 -
[940]
Edited by: MyOwnSling on 11/12/2008 19:02:09
Originally by: Cuchulain Spartan Edited by: Cuchulain Spartan on 11/12/2008 18:59:04
Originally by: Canjaio CCP knew this problem existed for a long time before they did any banning. They knew about it long enough to create a new game mechanic, alchemy. The knew long enough to test and impliment it and give it a few weeks to get settled into the game. Alchemy is just the bandaid to cover up the expected turmoil in the T2 market and to minimize emorage quit fallout in the masses.
Well said. I hope this isnt true but given CCP history you are more than likely correct.
I disagree. There is no hard proof that CCP knew anything about this. There won't be unless CCP explicitly states it. We cannot go off the word of one guy. Unfortunately, CCP is not likely to tell us how long they've known. I suppose it's even possible their records were not well maintained 4 years ago so they may not even know how long they've "known." We need moar informations!
edit: I disagreed before you edited. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Originally by: MooKids I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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Ryel Theon
Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Combined Planetary Union
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:02:00 -
[941]
Originally by: Millenia Fallenwing Can someone please prove that BoB did not exploit this, nor were they involved with this.
You know you can't prove a negative, right?
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MyOwnSling
Gallente Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:04:00 -
[942]
Originally by: Ryel Theon
Originally by: Millenia Fallenwing Can someone please prove that BoB did not exploit this, nor were they involved with this.
You know you can't prove a negative, right?
Sure you can, but that's not how it works in the real world. Innocent until proven guilty. ------------- Stop whining.
Originally by: Puupuu dude... your face...
Originally by: MooKids I have an elite rating in HULL TANKING! That is like saying I can block punches with my face.
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Zaafir
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:05:00 -
[943]
Wow. I understand the competition amongst you larger alliences is tremendous, but come on. It was an exploit, it was reported, it is getting fixed. This only means that unless you needed the cheap parts generated by the exploit you are in line to make some good money or perhaps are in a position to destroy weakened corps/alliences now that members are getting banned and isk removed.
I say--- Stop *****ing, start celebrating, and gear up for war.
Seriously- I already went in and bought a couple extra T2 ships in anticipation of higher prices. Look what happened to the oil industry when a scare of rising fuel prices hit that market. Sure we are in a recession right now, but the oil companies made some serious money caused from the scare of higher prices.
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Nathan Baxter
Absolutely No Retreat Blade.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:05:00 -
[944]
Originally by: Lord WarATron Well well well. How ironic that the people trying to dig graves for others ended up digging their own grave
For future, there should be a name and shame for people guilty of this. Hall of Infamy
What the man says !
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Mr Manufacture
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:06:00 -
[945]
Originally by: MyOwnSling
Originally by: Ryel Theon
Originally by: Millenia Fallenwing Can someone please prove that BoB did not exploit this, nor were they involved with this.
You know you can't prove a negative, right?
Sure you can, but that's not how it works in the real world. Innocent until proven guilty.
A handy mechanism for MM right now, who are looking dangerously like the alliance who most 'benefitted' from this 'error'
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Stele Toque
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:06:00 -
[946]
I wonder if the remaining corps will need a bailout?
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Chomin H'ak
Integrated Takeovers
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:06:00 -
[947]
WTB CCP response now with clarity/transparency
Originally by: Frenden Dax My heart hopes that people aren't that stupid, but my experiences thus far suggest otherwise.
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Gerald Sphinx
Gallente Right Hand of Death
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:07:00 -
[948]
Guys, I don't know where you are getting your information from, but nowhere in the article do I see that CCP knew of the exploit for four years. All it said that the petition was submitted five DAYS before 7 Dec 2008. What sources do you use to come up with this so-called four-year conspiracy?
Until you give me hard, unadulterated, certified proof to back up such claims, I will have to take your word for it. And until then, I will trust CCP.
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James Hetfeild
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:08:00 -
[949]
Getting free moon candy is bad mmmkay.
Serious question. Was the exploit only viable with ferrojello?
-JCR
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Rawthorm
Gallente The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:08:00 -
[950]
Originally by: Millenia Fallenwing Edited by: Millenia Fallenwing on 11/12/2008 19:02:18 Band of Brothers alliance have always known about exploits and have always known and used them to their advantage. 20 Large towers in 3 different systems. With the Same setup as listed how to get this exploit.
So i would request. Can someone please prove that BoB did not exploit this, nor were they involved with this. I have no solid proof. However all of the towers are exact same setup, in 3 different systems. Over the past 6 months HUGE amounts of dyspro has been stolen by directors defecting. So only asking who is involved and how that effects other alliance growth.
You do know that some people use reactors on pos's the way they were intended to be used right? We gonna assume that everyone with reactors and silos on a tower has been exploiting now?
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Jukhta Mein
Domini Umbrus R.U.R.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:08:00 -
[951]
To those who say that people are adopting a holier-than-thou attitude when they would line their pockets with the exploit if they knew about it too: I say no, human beings are fairer than you think.
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Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N. The Firm.
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:09:00 -
[952]
Originally by: James Hetfeild Getting free moon candy is bad mmmkay.
Serious question. Was the exploit only viable with ferrojello?
-JCR
Apparently it worked with all reactions.
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:09:00 -
[953]
GM receives petition detailing how to make valuable complex reaction products "for free".
GM, for some reason, closes said petition without acting on it.
GM gets lots of ISK. |
Rawthorm
Gallente The Establishment Establishment
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:09:00 -
[954]
Originally by: James Hetfeild Getting free moon candy is bad mmmkay.
Serious question. Was the exploit only viable with ferrojello?
-JCR
I think it would have worked with anything that used a reactor, but came down to a matter of ecconomics as to what ones the exploiters spanked the most.
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Ebodhisatva
The Templars Knights
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:09:00 -
[955]
Edited by: Ebodhisatva on 11/12/2008 19:09:38
Originally by: LaVista Vista
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
Update: This matter will be brought up at a CSM and CCP meeting this upcoming weekend.
Note this line which was added to the op.
But really m8, do me a favor... do not question things like how this _could_ happen but how the _consequences_ can be dealt with in the future
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Madius
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:10:00 -
[956]
Originally by: Serrin Shamandar
Ug, please don't hold up Blizzard's auditing as an example of something praiseworthy. Do you know the significance of the word "ruststorm"? That's a shining example of process and auditing failure.
You mean the same rust storm that wiped out countless duped and hacked items? EVE needs something like that.
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James Hetfeild
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:10:00 -
[957]
Thanks Mal
p.s JohnnyCash Says Hi
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:11:00 -
[958]
Another GM receives petition about how to make complex reaction products "for free".
Yet another GM sees this petition, gets in contact with his buddies.
His buddies quickly switch their "for free" reaction towers over to legitimate reaction towers. |
BlondieBC
Minmatar Ardent Industrial Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:12:00 -
[959]
The important thing is for CCP to trace the iskies from the 7 corps to the allaince they supported. We all know these iskies went into capital fleets. There is simply no way to spend this much on regular ships.
First titans should be seized, then POS (moon miners first, others second), then capital ships, until the full fine is paid in full. Only removing the benefit will discourage future cheaters. Also, all involve parties should be banned. The allaince leaders and corp leaders had to know where the isks came from.
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Straife
North Eastern Swat Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.12.11 19:12:00 -
[960]
Interesting how you're allowed to discuss exploits but close any other thread even barely resembling a tie to discussing an exploit...
So how's that new death camp working out? --------
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