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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Jonas Vinthyn Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:47:00 - [1081] Originally by: chrisss0r http://evemaps.dotlan.net/corp/D.M.T_inc Look at in game...36 members and in another alliance. As for all the other calls CCP does need to put the names out there ASAP. All this hiding crap makes me wonder how much more is rigged. My POS - POS Fitting and Fuel Calc Stats!
Caramena	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:48:00 - [1082] Originally by: Ranger 1 Now that I think of it, where the hell is my free Titan??? Now indeed, it's in your pants, bend over and i'll push it out for ya!
Crackuji	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:48:00 - [1083] Originally by: Disteeler CCP is wording the news as if the bug was there for very little time, when it may have been there for years. I don't like this attitude a bit. By the sounds of it on other forums, this has been reported numerous times yet nothing was ever done. Just WTF
Karla Kay	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:48:00 - [1084] A banned person is opening up on another forum about it all.... confirmed it was 4 yrs at least and more info to come...
Buur	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:49:00 - [1085] Edited by: Buur on 11/12/2008 20:53:27 For me personally, I don't really care about the players involved. If I found a bug and could make billions then hell yeh. For CCP to know about this for 4 years and not lift a finger, well thats totally unacceptable - I pay them for a service. Many people including myself have lost small fortunes to fights against these people, this is a loss to an exploit they permitted for 4 years. Some people will have bought GTC's to pay for things lost, thats now real money lost to an exploit they permitted for 4 years. I also bet most of these people haven't actually paid for their accounts over this time either, so effetivly we have.. for 4 years. This is the 3rd big "scandal" I've heard about now, my trust in CCP is running very thin. I have no idea how they intend to fix THERE (CCP's) F'up but I will certainly be cancelling both accounts if its not either very well documented or to a good enough standard. I feel like I have wasted a few years of my spare time and money right now... and have never felt so short changed or disrespected by an MMO or company.
Jana rockefeller	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:49:00 - [1086] Quote "if i were a multi millionaire in real life i would prolly have been buying and selling GTC for the 3/4 years i been playing." What if these POS operators were buying GTC's with their ill-gotten gains and selling them for RL $$???? that busts the whole GTC system wide open! geez....im dreading to think whats gonna happen in the next few days. I already see disbanded corps with 0 members on DOTLAN...
Ella Ment	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:50:00 - [1087] Originally by: Valan Edited by: Valan on 11/12/2008 20:25:14 CCP covered over the T20 thing months before it was discovered. Hence CCP created an internal affairs program which is being tested now. CCP can either add to the disasters in the past or put them right. What would you do now building up to a major retail release with a household name like Atari? It's not just credibility with the players on the line it's CCP's credibility as a leading brand on the line. This could hamper CCP growth, they have a good strong product and can try and break into the big time. If they fail they may not get another chance. Ambulation is a launch pad for a new dynamic lighting technology. The company that created it is using EVE as a flagship. You don't want any negative press when launching your star product. In my opinion this is bigger than a few disgruntled players. Pretty much. The T20 incident and coverup reflects on the people within CCP and their relative trustworthyness or lack there of, whichever way you look at it, the publicity worked in their favour (EVE is a game popular with those who want to scam, cheat and kill others, the fact that the people running it also like to do that is and will remain an attraction) The new issue is quite different, it will play out as a test of CCP as a company and the way it responds to problems/publicity, they are not playing to the masses, they have to play to other corporate figures, should be interesting
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:51:00 - [1088] Edited by: Gamer4liff on 11/12/2008 20:52:49 Originally by: batmoth Edited by: batmoth on 11/12/2008 20:46:49 Originally by: Gamer4liff Any hope of bailing out failing T2 producers because of the new higher build costs? Yeah its called re-adjusting your prices to meet the increase As I have said many times before it's not that simple, people are feeble minded, weak, and moronic when it comes to setting prices, prices can only change when almost all of the product is off the market, and somebody gets the balls to raise it. Which isn't often in low-demand T2 markets.
Haywoode Jablome The Templars Knights	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:51:00 - [1089] Originally by: Jana rockefeller Quote "if i were a multi millionaire in real life i would prolly have been buying and selling GTC for the 3/4 years i been playing." What if these POS operators were buying GTC's with their ill-gotten gains and selling them for RL $$???? that busts the whole GTC system wide open! geez....im dreading to think whats gonna happen in the next few days. I already see disbanded corps with 0 members on DOTLAN... Well that's what David Lee Roth is doing in EVE for the past 4 years, Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to pull up right alongside it with GTC's
Orree Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:52:00 - [1090] Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Orree RAWR corps split the monthly fuel bills. I used to buy Shiva's fuel every month (last time I did it was around 2-3 months ago). Even when hydrogen isotopes were priced crazy high, we never spent more than 6.5 bn a month for all our towers...Tribute and low-sec. We have not increased our number of towers substantially in quite some time. Approximately how many towers are you covering with 6.5 billion? These are Shiva numbers. Scattered around Branch, Venal, Lonetrek and Tribute, we have about 111 towers of all sizes...about half of which are offline placeholders. I got confirmation that our monthly fuel bill is about 5b. As I said...I'm more than willing to assume a conservative 8b to prove a point. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli

Madius	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:54:00 - [1091] Originally by: Ella Ment Pretty much. The T20 incident and coverup reflects on the people within CCP and their relative trustworthyness or lack there of, whichever way you look at it, the publicity worked in their favour (EVE is a game popular with those who want to scam, cheat and kill others, the fact that the people running it also like to do that is and will remain an attraction) The new issue is quite different, it will play out as a test of CCP as a company and the way it responds to problems/publicity, they are not playing to the masses, they have to play to other corporate figures, should be interesting There is a clear line between scamming and cheating people within the framework of the game, and using an unintended technical oversight to create god-knows-how-much ISK worth of goods. It's like the difference between bluffing someone successfully in a card game, and hiding cards up your sleeve.
Orree Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:55:00 - [1092] Originally by: Mr Manufacture <snip> I provided a broadly accurate count of the total number of POS run by that alliance. Do feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I have been. "broadly accurate." Did you actually just say that? Please prove all "450" (not even agreeing there ARE that many) are online and thus require fuel. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
Carnal Knowledge	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:56:00 - [1093] Originally by: Orree Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Orree RAWR corps split the monthly fuel bills. I used to buy Shiva's fuel every month (last time I did it was around 2-3 months ago). Even when hydrogen isotopes were priced crazy high, we never spent more than 6.5 bn a month for all our towers...Tribute and low-sec. We have not increased our number of towers substantially in quite some time. Approximately how many towers are you covering with 6.5 billion? These are Shiva numbers. Scattered around Branch, Venal, Lonetrek and Tribute, we have about 111 towers of all sizes...about half of which are offline placeholders. I got confirmation that our monthly fuel bill is about 5b. As I said...I'm more than willing to assume a conservative 8b to prove a point. So you are defending yourselve with the logs of CCP... mind you, you can say what you want... you'll hang if CCP wants you to. _period_
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:56:00 - [1094] Edited by: Mr Manufacture on 11/12/2008 20:56:13 Originally by: Orree Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Orree RAWR corps split the monthly fuel bills. I used to buy Shiva's fuel every month (last time I did it was around 2-3 months ago). Even when hydrogen isotopes were priced crazy high, we never spent more than 6.5 bn a month for all our towers...Tribute and low-sec. We have not increased our number of towers substantially in quite some time. Approximately how many towers are you covering with 6.5 billion? These are Shiva numbers. Scattered around Branch, Venal, Lonetrek and Tribute, we have about 111 towers of all sizes...about half of which are offline placeholders. I got confirmation that our monthly fuel bill is about 5b. As I said...I'm more than willing to assume a conservative 8b to prove a point. just...lol do you know how much it costs to fuel one large POS? according to you MM own a total of approx 15 large pos based on those numbers i dont think so... in other news: this had been confirmed by an Evoke director as having been a bug since 2004
Orree Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:57:00 - [1095] Originally by: Ranger 1 Now that I think of it, where the hell is my free Titan??? Really...I even had to buy my own Amarr titan skillbook. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
Karla Kay	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:57:00 - [1096] Can you two get a ****ing room.
Charles Jameson Caldari StarShip Earth Technologies New Eden Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:58:00 - [1097] To address this there is a simple solution. Hire a secret 3rd party company to watchdog the goings on of EVE. Like secret police. They would sign contracts stating that they do not or will ever play the game. Then given the ability to log on with a client and follow characters around and also listen in on any chat channel and be able to use the client they have to provide proof to ccp the csm and the players exactly whats going on then exploits/macros/hackers would be caught faster and the end result would be greater game play for the general public and also would guarantee that these types of things wouldnt happen again and therefore be able to put trust back into eve and ccp. Thanks for the rant time. Charles
Cat Molina Minmatar Psychotic Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:58:00 - [1098] CCP, I urge full disclosure of this incident. Your reputation for 'fair play' is growing more tarnished every time a new scandal comes to light. If you're going to help some players (or look the other way when they cheat, which amounts to the same thing) while making others work to gain anything... well, why play anymore? People are talking on your own forums right now, and you're not responding. How long before discussion, meeting a brick wall here, spills out into a more public venue? If the accusations are true, CCP is developing a reputation for running 'crooked games'. This would hurt not only Eve, but also future projects.
Orree Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 20:59:00 - [1099] Originally by: Carnal Knowledge Originally by: Orree Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Orree RAWR corps split the monthly fuel bills. I used to buy Shiva's fuel every month (last time I did it was around 2-3 months ago). Even when hydrogen isotopes were priced crazy high, we never spent more than 6.5 bn a month for all our towers...Tribute and low-sec. We have not increased our number of towers substantially in quite some time. Approximately how many towers are you covering with 6.5 billion? These are Shiva numbers. Scattered around Branch, Venal, Lonetrek and Tribute, we have about 111 towers of all sizes...about half of which are offline placeholders. I got confirmation that our monthly fuel bill is about 5b. As I said...I'm more than willing to assume a conservative 8b to prove a point. So you are defending yourselve with the logs of CCP... mind you, you can say what you want... you'll hang if CCP wants you to. _period_ Care to explain what you mean? I'm defending RAWR (not myself) with facts. Full stop. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
Mojo Lux Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:02:00 - [1100] Wow, this thread delivers. So it would appear that some folks tripped over the effects of poorly written code and decided to make mountains of ISK from it. Well after the fact CCP learns of this, not from their own efforts as one might hope, but from a player. You can just picture the sceen at CCP...somewhere in Iceland there was a manager or maybe a director knocking on a VP's door with "Ummm boss, we've got a little problem..." About an hour after that some very senior people at CCP were staring at the walls of their offices, or had their heads in their hands while thinking "OMG, this is going to just suck" or "I wonder if this kind of crap happens to Blizzard?", "I should have been a dentist". This is only going to get better. Time to stock up on popcorn!

Barbara Nichole Cryogenic Consultancy Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:03:00 - [1101] Quote: How come this wasn't spotted earlier, for example by your much-vaunted economist? you've got to be kidding. The answer to this caustic question is obvious. He wasn't looking for it. ..and why should he have. There are plenty of other things for him to look at especially in light of recent changes to the game. He had no reason to suspect there was a problem there especially if you didn't petition this 4 years ago. =====
Jose Jimenez Caldari Nayashimi Natuki	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:04:00 - [1102] Originally by: Mr Manufacture Edited by: Mr Manufacture on 11/12/2008 20:56:13 Originally by: Orree Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Orree RAWR corps split the monthly fuel bills. I used to buy Shiva's fuel every month (last time I did it was around 2-3 months ago). Even when hydrogen isotopes were priced crazy high, we never spent more than 6.5 bn a month for all our towers...Tribute and low-sec. We have not increased our number of towers substantially in quite some time. Approximately how many towers are you covering with 6.5 billion? These are Shiva numbers. Scattered around Branch, Venal, Lonetrek and Tribute, we have about 111 towers of all sizes...about half of which are offline placeholders. I got confirmation that our monthly fuel bill is about 5b. As I said...I'm more than willing to assume a conservative 8b to prove a point. just...lol do you know how much it costs to fuel one large POS? according to you MM own a total of approx 15 large pos based on those numbers i dont think so... in other news: this had been confirmed by an Evoke director as having been a bug since 2004 Whose ever alliance alt you are, you are a sad little man, and no amount of lies,accusations, false staments you make on these forums will take away the fact that you are jsut a silly little lying troll with 0 achievements in game. Wanna take a bet if any operations,titan, pos or member of the alliance you are lying about was funded by this? Wanna put up 10-20B in it? count me in against your bet if you have anything except big mouth to support these lies you make and relax kiddo, you are way to much stressed about being beaten by mm ingame.
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:06:00 - [1103] Originally by: Jose Jimenez Whose ever alliance alt you are, you are a sad little man, and no amount of lies,accusations, false staments you make on these forums will take away the fact that you are jsut a silly little lying troll with 0 achievements in game. Wanna take a bet if any operations,titan, pos or member of the alliance you are lying about was funded by this? Wanna put up 10-20B in it? count me in against your bet if you have anything except big mouth to support these lies you make and relax kiddo, you are way to much stressed about being beaten by mm ingame. erm, accusations cannot be lies... the most they can be is incorrect and.. as for the evoke director... go read SHC and weep
Athos Zel'tar Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:07:00 - [1104] Does anyone actually have any proof that BoB, MM, TRI, or any others have actually used this exploit? I'm all for public executions and everything, but I would at least like to know I'm hanging the right person first
GuntiNDDS	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:08:00 - [1105] http://www.eve-online.de/forum/showpost.php?p=282164&postcount=187 Originally by: Baumi Aber es hat mich eh gewundert das es so lange nicht rausgekommen ist, sogar ich wei¯ seit nber nem Jahr das das geht Originally by: Translation But it surprised me it wasn't disclosed for so long, even I have known for over a year that it (the Pos exploit) is possible Corp: Free Space Ranger - Morsus Mihi [/code]
Ella Ment	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:10:00 - [1106] Originally by: Madius There is a clear line between scamming and cheating people within the framework of the game, and using an unintended technical oversight to create god-knows-how-much ISK worth of goods. It's like the difference between bluffing someone successfully in a card game, and hiding cards up your sleeve. No, not in EVE, you either wear blinkers or you dont wander the different halls of these here forums (and other forums). Exploits are 'not' exploits until CCP says they are is the oft used defense (oblivious to what 'some' might call common sense). There are examples all through EVE's history, small and large, some classed as game play one moment, classed as a dire exploits another. CCP has never been consistant, mainly due to the 'player' within.
Orree Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:11:00 - [1107] Originally by: Mr Manufacture Edited by: Mr Manufacture on 11/12/2008 20:56:13 Originally by: Orree Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Orree RAWR corps split the monthly fuel bills. I used to buy Shiva's fuel every month (last time I did it was around 2-3 months ago). Even when hydrogen isotopes were priced crazy high, we never spent more than 6.5 bn a month for all our towers...Tribute and low-sec. We have not increased our number of towers substantially in quite some time. Approximately how many towers are you covering with 6.5 billion? These are Shiva numbers. Scattered around Branch, Venal, Lonetrek and Tribute, we have about 111 towers of all sizes...about half of which are offline placeholders. I got confirmation that our monthly fuel bill is about 5b. As I said...I'm more than willing to assume a conservative 8b to prove a point. just...lol do you know how much it costs to fuel one large POS? according to you MM own a total of approx 15 large pos based on those numbers i dont think so... in other news: this had been confirmed by an Evoke director as having been a bug since 2004 Why yes, I do. Between 75-100m for a large tower, depending upon how fitted, in sov 1+ (where the vast majority of our towers are located). We have 55 large towers in total. I have granted for the sake of argument 8bn on average for each sov-claiming RAWR corp. Using your approved method of "broadly accurate" estimation, I have proven that your assertion that RAWR spends 135bn a month of fuel to be complete nonsense. Then there's your assertion that we have "hundreds" of dreads. We don't have that many and I'd say a good half are probably personally owned (mine are). It's clear you're just a troll and I'm finished feeding you. If anyone has any questions they'd like to ask me directly, send an EVE mail. I'll respond when I can. "How much easier it is to be critical than to be correct." ---Benjamin Disraeli
hypno toad Arachno Spores	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:11:00 - [1108] Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a yacht big enough to pull up right alongside it with GTC's never a truer word spoken.
Lady Oracle	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:12:00 - [1109] This thread is reminding me of CAOD, with some of the accusations tossed about.
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:12:00 - [1110] Originally by: GuntiNDDS http://www.eve-online.de/forum/showpost.php?p=282164&postcount=187 Originally by: Baumi Aber es hat mich eh gewundert das es so lange nicht rausgekommen ist, sogar ich wei¯ seit nber nem Jahr das das geht Originally by: Translation But it surprised me it wasn't disclosed for so long, even I have known for over a year that it (the Pos exploit) is possible Corp: Free Space Ranger - Morsus Mihi [/code] ker-ching hate to say I told you so...



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