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Julian Grey Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:38:00 - [1141] Originally by: Orree Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Orree These are Shiva numbers. Scattered around Branch, Venal, Lonetrek and Tribute, we have about 111 towers of all sizes...about half of which are offline placeholders. I got confirmation that our monthly fuel bill is about 5b. As I said...I'm more than willing to assume a conservative 8b to prove a point. Thank you. From my experience, 10 larges runs around 1.5B for 4 weeks of fuel, meaning 5B would cover around 33 large online towers and 8B would cover about 53 large online towers. Again, those are estimates for large online towers, smaller or offlined towers would obviously require less ISK, and ice could have been mined as well to reduce costs. Either way, assuming all "450" towers were large and online, which would indeed be insane, we're talking about 67.5B in fuel per month. Even that insane amount could be farmed out of legitimate moon mining and/or reactions. ...and so my assertion is proved to be completely on the money and his assertion of 135bn is found to be complete nonsense. Thank you. You're arguing with Butter Dog/Mr Manufacture.....have you no shame !!!
Digiball Amarr Incorporated Holdings	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:38:00 - [1142] t2 bpos have nothing to do with the isue! i own the ishtar t2 bpo. and got tnothing to do with moon crap. why should i be punished ? its ok if ccp takes back bpo`s but i would want a solid fund for it then. say 100 bill.. and i consider it. the fact i got my bpo fairly should be taken into consideration and some ******ed story about them turning into anytihng is just stupid. as i by now would have memorised how to make em.. sure ccp claim back t2 bpo but give the owners a SOLID refund. some lame price IS NOT ok. i want 100 bill ATLEAST!
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:39:00 - [1143] Originally by: Julian Grey Originally by: Orree Originally by: NATMav Originally by: Orree These are Shiva numbers. Scattered around Branch, Venal, Lonetrek and Tribute, we have about 111 towers of all sizes...about half of which are offline placeholders. I got confirmation that our monthly fuel bill is about 5b. As I said...I'm more than willing to assume a conservative 8b to prove a point. Thank you. From my experience, 10 larges runs around 1.5B for 4 weeks of fuel, meaning 5B would cover around 33 large online towers and 8B would cover about 53 large online towers. Again, those are estimates for large online towers, smaller or offlined towers would obviously require less ISK, and ice could have been mined as well to reduce costs. Either way, assuming all "450" towers were large and online, which would indeed be insane, we're talking about 67.5B in fuel per month. Even that insane amount could be farmed out of legitimate moon mining and/or reactions. ...and so my assertion is proved to be completely on the money and his assertion of 135bn is found to be complete nonsense. Thank you. You're arguing with Butter Dog/Mr Manufacture.....have you no shame !!! you, sir, need to learn the art of good trolling
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:40:00 - [1144] Originally by: Digiball t2 bpos have nothing to do with the isue! i own the ishtar t2 bpo. and got tnothing to do with moon crap. why should i be punished ? its ok if ccp takes back bpo`s but i would want a solid fund for it then. say 100 bill.. and i consider it. the fact i got my bpo fairly should be taken into consideration and some ******ed story about them turning into anytihng is just stupid. as i by now would have memorised how to make em.. sure ccp claim back t2 bpo but give the owners a SOLID refund. some lame price IS NOT ok. i want 100 bill ATLEAST! Calm down man, T2 BPOs aren't going anywhere, and if we're lucky they'll see fit to reseed any that the bastards had.
Arrs Grazznic Poena Executive Solutions	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:40:00 - [1145] Originally by: Mr Manufacture Originally by: Orree Why yes, I do. Between 75-100m for a large tower, depending upon how fitted, in sov 1+ (where the vast majority of our towers are located). We have 55 large towers in total. I think you're confusing the cost per week, with the cost per month... doh No he isn't... go and check some of the POS fuelling services in the Sell forums. Full fuel for a non-faction POS in high-sec for under 35m / week. Factor in faction POS and sovereignty bonus, and possibly mining the ice products in house, and you easily achieve that value. Cheers, Arrs
Abrazzar	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:42:00 - [1146] Edited by: Abrazzar on 11/12/2008 21:42:22 Originally by: Gamer4liff Originally by: Digiball t2 bpos have nothing to do with the isue! i own the ishtar t2 bpo. and got tnothing to do with moon crap. why should i be punished ? its ok if ccp takes back bpo`s but i would want a solid fund for it then. say 100 bill.. and i consider it. the fact i got my bpo fairly should be taken into consideration and some ******ed story about them turning into anytihng is just stupid. as i by now would have memorised how to make em.. sure ccp claim back t2 bpo but give the owners a SOLID refund. some lame price IS NOT ok. i want 100 bill ATLEAST! Calm down man, T2 BPOs aren't going anywhere, and if we're lucky they'll see fit to reseed any that the bastards had. LOL! All you can think of is the chance of getting your grubby fingers on a T2 BPO. They should do with them what they do with all T2 BPOs that leave the game one way or another: Nothing. -------- Ideas for: Mining
Elecho	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:43:00 - [1147] this has just been pulled from the eve-o main page now... already starting to sweep it under the carpet
Julian Grey Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:44:00 - [1148] Originally by: Mr Manufacture You're arguing with Butter Dog/Mr Manufacture.....have you no shame !!! you, sir, need to learn the art of good trolling I wasn't trolling butters.... Why you still using the Mr Manufacture char to post? Now that the secret's out, its time for Butter Dog's truimphant and very bitter return.
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:44:00 - [1149] Originally by: Elecho this has just been pulled from the eve-o main page now... already starting to sweep it under the carpet careful what you say, or CCP might just find a little too much ferrogel in your hangar
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:45:00 - [1150] Edited by: Mr Manufacture on 11/12/2008 21:46:13 Originally by: Julian Grey I wasn't trolling butters.... Why you still using the Mr Manufacture char to post? Now that the secret's out, its time for Butter Dog's truimphant and very bitter return. i already told you he is not subbed atm and while I'm at it, telling people to post with their main on an alt aint exactly high class ;)
Seraphine Keratus	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:45:00 - [1151] Originally by: Kuzya Morozov Originally by: Lochmar Fiendhiem MY SINGLE QUESTION IS THIS. Why should I keep playing this game, when after 3 years I actually had to work to earn my keep, while others were just allowed to do it the easy way? My question too, but as always CCP will cover it up and eventually everyone will move on. So u refer to the developers of EVE like they would have intentionally left this one Exploit open so that others can benefit off it? Dont u think, that they would have some HUGE work to do de-exploiting this game and reading through all these partitions to evaluate the real important ones? Lay off from the * CCP- Admins are lazy workers* if u really think that way just quit playing! They got info about an exploit and got rid of the ones abusing it! now they figure out how to manage that and my guess is, that they will try to get the best solution there is to prevent the abuse further, punish the ones abusing, and reinstate the falsely banned accounts! Some faith people.... just some faith!
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:46:00 - [1152] Errrm, your an idiot. It's still there. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Gamer4liff Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:46:00 - [1153] Originally by: Abrazzar Edited by: Abrazzar on 11/12/2008 21:42:22 Originally by: Gamer4liff Originally by: Digiball t2 bpos have nothing to do with the isue! i own the ishtar t2 bpo. and got tnothing to do with moon crap. why should i be punished ? its ok if ccp takes back bpo`s but i would want a solid fund for it then. say 100 bill.. and i consider it. the fact i got my bpo fairly should be taken into consideration and some ******ed story about them turning into anytihng is just stupid. as i by now would have memorised how to make em.. sure ccp claim back t2 bpo but give the owners a SOLID refund. some lame price IS NOT ok. i want 100 bill ATLEAST! Calm down man, T2 BPOs aren't going anywhere, and if we're lucky they'll see fit to reseed any that the bastards had. LOL! All you can think of is the chance of getting your grubby fingers on a T2 BPO. They should do with them what they do with all T2 BPOs that leave the game one way or another: Nothing. I dare say that's not "all" I can think about, but thanks for perpetuating the "T2 BPO owners are greedy sods" stereotype again. Whatever happens I'm fine with it, less T2 BPOs in the game = less competition for me anyway.
Bagehi Association of Commonwealth Enterprises B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:47:00 - [1154] Reading through the Scrapheap thread on this, my favorite post of all time has now been replaced by this: Darius JOHNSON Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 10:15 pm not it
Felix Underwood	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:47:00 - [1155] t2 bpos have nothing to do with the isue! i own the ishtar t2 bpo. and got tnothing to do with moon crap. why should i be punished ? its ok if ccp takes back bpo`s but i would want a solid fund for it then. say 100 bill.. and i consider it. the fact i got my bpo fairly should be taken into consideration and some ******ed story about them turning into anytihng is just stupid. as i by now would have memorised how to make em.. sure ccp claim back t2 bpo but give the owners a SOLID refund. some lame price IS NOT ok. i want 100 bill ATLEAST! I am sorry, I wasn't very clear. There was a scandal were dev's were members of a corp and that corp was seeded t2 bpo's when they 1st came out. And it took a spy to find out, make and post, and then get banned for making the post. My question is whatever happened to those bpo's and how ccp didn't really directly come forth and give a clear explanation of what happened. Their solution was to form the CSM. But still no explanation. It seems rather similar. I have no issue with t2 bpo's who were earned. But I do have issue with CCP not giving their customers clear details of who was involved with the current scandal.
Ziester GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:47:00 - [1156] Edited by: Ziester on 11/12/2008 21:48:48 Edited by: Ziester on 11/12/2008 21:48:21 Edited by: Ziester on 11/12/2008 21:48:09 Edited by: Ziester on 11/12/2008 21:47:48 http://www.*********.com/showpost.php?p=33466&postcount=32 The evoke guy behind all of this says other people in the area were too. Place your bets now. BoB or other BoB pets? edit: kugutsumen is a banned word?
Thynar Gallente Melita Foundation	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:48:00 - [1157] Edited by: Thynar on 11/12/2008 21:51:42 Edited by: Thynar on 11/12/2008 21:50:11 http://www.**********.com/showthread.php?t=3428&page=2 If this is really Maltroc posting, then he seems to imply that the 2005 post was referring to this exploit. edit: "k u g u t s u m e n" is filtered? edit: Ziester faster than me twice
Julian Grey Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:48:00 - [1158] Edited by: Julian Grey on 11/12/2008 21:49:43 Originally by: Mr Manufacture Edited by: Mr Manufacture on 11/12/2008 21:44:58 Originally by: Julian Grey I wasn't trolling butters.... Why you still using the Mr Manufacture char to post? Now that the secret's out, its time for Butter Dog's truimphant and very bitter return. i already told you he is not subbed atm Resub already so we can watch the drama without the whole alt suspense. Ps. I can post on an alt cos I'm not in here accusing people of being cheaters with no evidence. So the whole "High class" issue is moot.
Orange Faeces Minmatar THE INTERNET.	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:49:00 - [1159] Orree, While you, sir, may be enjoying the forum warfare defence exercise you are getting in here, I'm pretty sure it is unnecessary. Most of the people hounding you can't possibly have knowledge of the costs and materiel associated with all of that activity. Relax. And if you post once a day we will all be assured that you haven't been suddenly instabanned for years of omgwtfPOSprofits. Respek to morsus. oF --- The Other Orange
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:49:00 - [1160] Originally by: Julian Grey Resub already so we can watch the drama without the whole alt suspense. no thanks, he is resting in peace why dont you post with your main anyway, whilst we're on the subject
Calgura Gallente	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:49:00 - [1161] I find it funny. I read the accusations. I read the half-truths. I read the outright lies. I read the questions given by players, and answered by other players even when it should be CCP answering them. I see something that was written on a 3rd party forum, without any proof of it except for words, end up being blown way out of proportions. I agree with the bannings, and anyone involved in this should be banned. I remember the last time GoonSwarm crashed the forums because they decided to go on a spam trip with some half-truths and accusations. Don't remember if it ended up being full-truths and correct accusations though, for which I apologize. I can imagine what CCP feel like. In normal companies (i.e. companies that don't have to give their proof to a group as demanding as a mob), they would have a day, perhaps a week, perhaps more, for the press to catch on, and in that time would be able to think of a solution to a problem. An internet gaming supplier has no such option. Once the snowball rolls, it'll keep growing and growing, and nomatter what CCP end up providing in terms of proof or disclosure, people are still going to moan, ***, whine and complain that CCP didn't do it "the way those people feel CCP should ahve done it.". Sadly, this is an ongoing war CCP cannot hope to win. Should an exploit 4 years old have been discovered? Yes. But I also fault the players who exploited this, as they should have continued spamming the petition system as well as going through the web-site Bug Reporting. Asking for full disclosure is also wrong. As I was saying before, whatever CCP decide to provide will still be faulted as either "not enough disclosure" or "cover up" or "inability to investigate themselves". Theories of Conspiracy will continue to blossom. CCP being a company that has to hold people's privacy in mind as well (by terms of their own EULA and the globally accepted personal privacy by which so many of us enjoy our conducts on the internet) can not and will not disclose everything, nor should they. I will be following this thread most carefully, but I would rather wish only to be reading statements from CCP (when they have been given some more time to actually find out precisely what has happened and conducted their investigation), than I wish to read 38 or more pages from random people who have no way in God's name of knowing what precisely has happened, apart from theories and statements from others, truths or lies, without proof. So, I ask everyone, please stop posting here so we can hear what the CSM and CCP have to offer, and not what accusations, half-truths, lies, bull and other **ing crap the rest of us can offer, because we don't know what's happening behind their doors.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:50:00 - [1162] Originally by: Mr Manufacture Originally by: Elecho this has just been pulled from the eve-o main page now... already starting to sweep it under the carpet careful what you say, or CCP might just find a little too much ferrogel in your hangar Perhaps you should pack a little more ferrogel in your own hanger, it might keep you from acting so butthurt all the time. ===== * Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy
Touch My	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:50:00 - [1163] You know, 70 accounts may have been banned so far, but the people doing this are not idiots. The accounts that got banned were probably accounts set up just to use the exploit while being paid by the exploit. They will be in dummy corps which cant be connected to any of their main toons corps. Only an idiot would have one of his main toons connected to such acts. At the end of the day, i would be suprised if anyone at all actually paid a price for using the exploit. Its f*ing annoying because i lost over 450 million ISK worth of salvage to a smartbombing * in Jita while experiancing latency problems 2 days ago. A GM told me in not so many words to get f*ed if i thought i was going to get it back. I guess the time i spent collecting is doubley stupid. I might just stop and wait for darkfall online.
Mr Manufacture	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:51:00 - [1164] Originally by: Ranger 1 Originally by: Mr Manufacture Originally by: Elecho this has just been pulled from the eve-o main page now... already starting to sweep it under the carpet careful what you say, or CCP might just find a little too much ferrogel in your hangar Perhaps you should pack a little more ferrogel in your own hanger, it might keep you from acting so butthurt all the time. already sold all my ferrogel for a tidy profit ;)
Kwa Kaine eXceed Inc. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:52:00 - [1165] Originally by: Ziester edit: k*ugutsumen is a banned word? CCP still haven't learned that trying to cover stuff up is not a good idea. We want the truth and we'll dig for it till we get it. CCP = Blizzard in training
Lao Dok Monolith Inc.	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:52:00 - [1166] Doesn't matter how long it took CCP to notice it. I really hope all those cheaters get their arses handed. cheater => just another word for lowlife
St Claus	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:53:00 - [1167] Originally by: Mr Manufacture Edited by: Mr Manufacture on 11/12/2008 21:46:13 Originally by: Julian Grey I wasn't trolling butters.... Why you still using the Mr Manufacture char to post? Now that the secret's out, its time for Butter Dog's truimphant and very bitter return. i already told you he is not subbed atm and while I'm at it, telling people to post with their main on an alt aint exactly high class ;) http://www.eve-search.com/thread/488235#15 Originally by: Mr Manufacture Originally by: maGz Butter Noob got scammed yeah I'm not playing eve anymore, this money was for other people! but still, I know what eve is like, but this is pretty odd... Sharing is caring?
Baske Space-Bar	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:54:00 - [1168] Originally by: Gerald Sphinx Guys, I don't know where you are getting your information from, but nowhere in the article do I see that CCP knew of the exploit for four years. All it said that the petition was submitted five DAYS before 7 Dec 2008. What sources do you use to come up with this so-called four-year conspiracy? Until you give me hard, unadulterated, certified proof to back up such claims, I will have to take your word for it. And until then, I will trust CCP. Why trust CCP over others? What is your reasons for this, because I can't see any good reasons why CCP should be more honest than others. CCP makes real life cash from this game, so they have far greater motive to lie than anyone else !
Julian Grey Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:55:00 - [1169] Originally by: Mr Manufacture Originally by: Julian Grey Resub already so we can watch the drama without the whole alt suspense. no thanks, he is resting in peace why dont you post with your main anyway, whilst we're on the subject I'm not on forum warfare mode...so no need to use my main. Though I must say, it's pretty poor form to accuse people of cheating with no evidence. Your constant flaming of MM/NC not withstanding, I used to think Butter Dog was a pretty OK guy....so slightly disappointed. Wesley Baird seems to be runnign around making the same accusations as well...though he tries to be very subtle about it. Meh...human nature I suppose.
Ranger 1 Amarr Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2008.12.11 21:55:00 - [1170] Originally by: Kwa Kaine Originally by: Ziester edit: kugutsumen is a banned word? CCP still haven't learned that trying to cover stuff up is not a good idea. We want the truth and we'll dig for it till we get it. You DO realize that if CCP wanted to fund an alliance, all they have to do is click a button right? People can be so stupid. ===== Now I know how George Washington felt when Napoleon bombed him at Pearl Harbor. - Beast Boy

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