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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Baske
Space-Bar
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:19:00 -
[1681]
Originally by: Rosur
Originally by: Innocent II
TBH I even support banning players who were not cheaters directly but benefited from this. The reason is the only true penalty in MMO is to destroy the group of people. Accounts bought and sold. To get at problem, you must hurt the real people and punish, and inspire fear of retaliation so future cheaters noticed this. This means hurting not just cheaters, but also crush their friends. I support full absolute ruthlessness that would make Joseph Stalin cringe in fear. CCP and eve is better off with these people sent to biomass, all of them, both direct and indirect people. CCP is God in EvE, no need for reasons, no need for excuses. This is not a court and judges and lawyers. No reasons needed, CCP can ban without questions.
If u ban anyone who was affected by this then ccp would have to ban everyone(excepet people who dont use T2) as the expolit drove down T2 prices by quite a bit.
If everyone benifitted from lower T2 prices, it's status quo. Only the perpetrators gained something from NOTHING.
Huge difference....Hope you spot it :p
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scutternut
Amarr Capital Ships Inc. B.L.A.C.K.
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:22:00 -
[1682]
Originally by: Borun Tal
Originally by: scutternut If it is an exploit... They deserve to keep what they made, and deserve to keep thier accounts. They found a game mechanic that allowed for the game to give them something they did not earn. Did they not earn it? I think they did sort of.... after all they were brave to push the envelope.
Utter non-sense. If I find and exploit a security hole in a bank's online system, can I keep all the money I make from that exploit with no repercussions? Absolutely not, when I'm caught I should expect to be punished according to the law. The exact same thing applies here: the cheaters found a hole, exploited it for their own profit, and have been caught. You would have CCP let them go on their merry way? Non-sense. Ban them, their MAC addresses, and use of their credit devices. Yes, they can get around that (swapping NICs, getting new credit cards, new email addys, etc), but the GMs paying attention should help keep some of the less ingenious ones out of EVE.
I really don't see the point in disbanding alliances. That's just silly. They disband, and two minutes later are in a new one. Big whoop. These players have already proven themselves to be people of low character, and as such they'll keep coming back. Rats always come back to the same pile of--- well, you know.
Sorry to have upset you mate. "I gave an opinion and like feet almost all of them stink." How is CCP going to make this a closed issue for us, the consumer? I think they are not going to care much, other than folowing the rules they set forth in the eula we all agreed to when we started to play eve online.
Just one other thought.... Does anyone here remember how EVERY absolutly everyone cried about being able to kill a freighter at a gate in empire? Running into people to knock them away from the gate.... then have people come out and shoot them up in t1 fitted ships in order to get the loot it would drop. heh that used to be thought as an exploit too. Now its commonplace all over eve online.
Before i post anything else i would love to hear the Deffinative CCP stance on Exploits. can someone spend 2 hours looking it up in the eula and post it here?
I guess what i am trying to say is, i think creativeness should be rewarded. Just about anything in this game is allowed.
Heck, Having someone web me in my freighter to get me to insta warp could get me insta banned? Heck i dunno if i wanna play in a game where i fear deletion.
Well play safe, i am sure they will make a decison on everything soon.
oh, btw people i mine moons as well. Does anyone need any mercury? lol i know not on this side of forums :o) Just had to upset people.
- Scutternut
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Demeterus
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:25:00 -
[1683]
Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar
Originally by: Abrazzar
Confirming this.
I heard that from reliable source. Alas those sources demanded anonymity (NDA stuff) so I can't tell you who it is.
When is the rollback?
And what happens to people who haven't been subscribed that long? :(
Well, beside the fact that it is a stupid rumour with no basis in reality, if CCP were ever to consider this, I'm outta here.
I love Eve, but I don't own a pos, and I won't invest another year or two in the game starting from scratch. That WOULD be the NGE of Eve.
I've not cheated. If I'm "punished" I'm out.
And I'll self destruct my ships and dump my reprocessed stuff in the nearest sun. :) --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs? |
Baske
Space-Bar
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:27:00 -
[1684]
Originally by: Demeterus
Originally by: Jaina Proudmoar
Originally by: Abrazzar
Confirming this.
I heard that from reliable source. Alas those sources demanded anonymity (NDA stuff) so I can't tell you who it is.
When is the rollback?
And what happens to people who haven't been subscribed that long? :(
Well, beside the fact that it is a stupid rumour with no basis in reality, if CCP were ever to consider this, I'm outta here.
I love Eve, but I don't own a pos, and I won't invest another year or two in the game starting from scratch. That WOULD be the NGE of Eve.
I've not cheated. If I'm "punished" I'm out.
And I'll self destruct my ships and dump my reprocessed stuff in the nearest sun. :)
I feel like I have been punished for four years...And I am not the only one !
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Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:29:00 -
[1685]
I couldn't stomach a full reset.
I, however, would be up for a full asset wipe, but keeping skillpoints. |
Demeterus
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:37:00 -
[1686]
Originally by: Karina Bellac I couldn't stomach a full reset.
I, however, would be up for a full asset wipe, but keeping skillpoints.
Well, most people haven't cheated. Most people have played this game with the assumption that there's a level playing field, that risk is indeed a factor and that if you overcome the fear of risk you will be rewarded - or not.
Now, we find that some bastards have found a way to completely negate all the risk, get free playtime, get infinite access to anything that will reduce whatever risk there was left. I say all of Eve declare war on the cheater. Pod them wherever you see them. Let CCP put a billion isk bounty on whoever remains after bans and corporate and alliance wipes.
Let's aggregate the risk for the bastards to a point where the game becomes so dangerous that they can barely undock.
But to wipe the entire player base, that's too much, and if it happens - I'm out. --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs? |
Gamer4liff
Caldari Metalworks THE INTERSTELLAR FOUNDRY
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:39:00 -
[1687]
Well CCP, As you're probably madly rewriting POS code right now, I don't suppose you could write a part that allows public use of research slots?
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suza
M. Corp Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:40:00 -
[1688]
I love how short peoples memories are :
BIG's time in Fountain and all the strange things happening then,
The T2 drops from agents
The T2 print scandal with BoB
The iffy GM intervention during the ASCN / BoB wars
and now this one and people seem shocked.
None of them have ever been handled well and though the accounts have been banned I bet the player involved have hidden fortunes on hidden accounts.
As you can guess it has never stopped me playing and I wait in anticipation for the next.
However, I bet lots of greedy T2 producers will use this as an excuse to hike their prices and bleed as some more, now that worry's me more than the newest exploit ! -
Fly Hard, Fly fast for tomorrow is another day for Killing! |
RedSplat
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:41:00 -
[1689]
Originally by: Karina Bellac I couldn't stomach a full reset.
I, however, would be up for a full asset wipe, but keeping skillpoints.
Hmm. Asset liquidation (everything a character owns being converted to isk) followed by destruction of every POS is more palatable to me. Some of us worked hard for our isk; well someone did anyway
Seriously though, this whole mess could be a perfect excuse to decouple Sov. from POS's and completely reset the stagnant 0.0 situation. There was even talk of French toast
But there was none to be had |
Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:42:00 -
[1690]
Originally by: suza
None of them have ever been handled well and though the accounts have been banned I bet the player involved have hidden fortunes on hidden accounts.
A number of accounts that were doing this probably aren't banned. Probably because they got advance notice that a quick TQ audit was about to happen. |
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Scoop de'Woop
Emino Concepts
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:42:00 -
[1691]
Edited by: Scoop de''Woop on 12/12/2008 19:45:29
Originally by: Demeterus
Originally by: Karina Bellac I couldn't stomach a full reset.
I, however, would be up for a full asset wipe, but keeping skillpoints.
Well, most people haven't cheated. Most people have played this game with the assumption that there's a level playing field, that risk is indeed a factor and that if you overcome the fear of risk you will be rewarded - or not.
Now, we find that some bastards have found a way to completely negate all the risk, get free playtime, get infinite access to anything that will reduce whatever risk there was left. I say all of Eve declare war on the cheater. Pod them wherever you see them. Let CCP put a billion isk bounty on whoever remains after bans and corporate and alliance wipes.
Let's aggregate the risk for the bastards to a point where the game becomes so dangerous that they can barely undock.
But to wipe the entire player base, that's too much, and if it happens - I'm out.
The characters have already been banned so that their characters are junk. On the issue of removing all of the assets that were built/bought with this ISK, this would also be unfair to any players that have used those assets. In the case of outposts that were built, the outpost may have been taken over by another alliance. Should you punish the new station holder just because the previous alliance built it with dirty ISK? That is just one example of what might happen if CCP goes in with a knife and cuts all of that type of stuff out. I honestly think banning all of the relevant accounts and looking at the petition policies is the only thing they can do that is somewhat fair. Open to other ideas though...
Edit: spelling typo |
Ikathis sihtaki
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:47:00 -
[1692]
Ban and remove it all.
Can we say welcome new guys, to prices experienced back in '05 - '06? |
Innocent II
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:47:00 -
[1693]
Originally by: Inmaculada Divinity
First, I am not a posting ALT - I am a CEO of a Corp. Second, they are corporations - not guilds! Third, I do not support what they did but I do believe CCP should have taken some time to analyse it further Fourth, you are an idiot for even suggesting I might be helping them just because I put forward an alternative viewpoint. As for saying "both direct and indirect people." you prove my point as to your stupidity because this has affected the entire market. Fifth, go back to WoW.
People are not so stupid as to believe you. Here is how you sound to me "Hello, I make excuses for scammers and cheaters". You are made so fast you have no picture. You are a new guy. Seems like you use forum damage control II, and you are well in structure. I talked about other games with guilds I played ruined by cheating as a lesson for what can happen to EvE. You can know this is true but are too stupid to read my post. Here is video example for your slow brain.
Cheats wrecks games. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkqEKh6Qqj4&feature=related
show me the money power overwhelming
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Zathi Shaitan
Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:48:00 -
[1694]
Originally by: Baske
Personally, I think that it is time for the Jovians to wreck some bigtime 0.0 Havoc.
What he said. ---- " Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/ |
Mari Katarin
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:48:00 -
[1695]
Edited by: Mari Katarin on 12/12/2008 19:51:22
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Yet I am strangely unbanned, and the entire corp is chugging along nicely.
Won't cut it. Remember the last time the "tinfoil lol" arguments were brought out? And then we found the tinfoil was justified.
One of the problems with having alliance members with developer friends on call via MSN is... people assume you get special treatment. Joking about getting Molle's titan reimbursed for no reason while an enemy alliance titan lost due to bugs is not doesn't help.
Unfair, yes. But there are some image and credibility downsides to being in BoB. Many people assume you get preferential treatment based on documented previous experience and discount your accomplishments and arguments like the one you just made.
Quote:
We look forward to up coming market changes.
You and me both.
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Jen Newb
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:49:00 -
[1696]
I am deeply concerned about the prices of T2 items. CCP please don't let the prices rice too high - I love the ships I'm flying atm
Jen Newb
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Baske
Space-Bar
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:53:00 -
[1697]
Originally by: Demeterus
Originally by: Karina Bellac I couldn't stomach a full reset.
I, however, would be up for a full asset wipe, but keeping skillpoints.
Well, most people haven't cheated. Most people have played this game with the assumption that there's a level playing field, that risk is indeed a factor and that if you overcome the fear of risk you will be rewarded - or not.
Now, we find that some bastards have found a way to completely negate all the risk, get free playtime, get infinite access to anything that will reduce whatever risk there was left. I say all of Eve declare war on the cheater. Pod them wherever you see them. Let CCP put a billion isk bounty on whoever remains after bans and corporate and alliance wipes.
Let's aggregate the risk for the bastards to a point where the game becomes so dangerous that they can barely undock.
But to wipe the entire player base, that's too much, and if it happens - I'm out.
Having your mate pod you is far from difficult.
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Zathi Shaitan
Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:53:00 -
[1698]
Originally by: Salinity Now
recieves
receives
Originally by: Salinity Now
allready
already
Originally by: Salinity Now
loose
lose
You spell like a 5 year old. So, we shall assume you also think like one, thus your post is ignored. ---- " Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/ |
Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:53:00 -
[1699]
At the moment I think that at least the whole D2 and following alliances/corps knew about this exploit. Actually it is difficult to believe that the other alliances were unaware of this exploit over such a long time.
If they used the exploit like the already revealed cheaters did is some other question.
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Baske
Space-Bar
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:55:00 -
[1700]
Originally by: Zathi Shaitan
Originally by: Salinity Now
recieves
receives
Originally by: Salinity Now
allready
already
Originally by: Salinity Now
loose
lose
You spell like a 5 year old. So, we shall assume you also think like one, thus your post is ignored.
You are the one acting like a 5 year old, with lack of knowledge that spelling capabilities does not have to equal age or intelligence.
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Etho Demerzel
Gallente Holy Clan of the Cone
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:58:00 -
[1701]
Originally by: Scoop de'Woop
The characters have already been banned so that their characters are junk. On the issue of removing all of the assets that were built/bought with this ISK, this would also be unfair to any players that have used those assets. In the case of outposts that were built, the outpost may have been taken over by another alliance. Should you punish the new station holder just because the previous alliance built it with dirty ISK? That is just one example of what might happen if CCP goes in with a knife and cuts all of that type of stuff out. I honestly think banning all of the relevant accounts and looking at the petition policies is the only thing they can do that is somewhat fair. Open to other ideas though...
Edit: spelling typo
It is quite simple, trace the money to those that received it. And take the money from them. Destroying things that were already taken from them makes no sense at all.
The same about people who bought the materials from them. As long as they didn't buy it, for 1 ISK the ton, in which case it is an obvious money laundering scheme, they are innocent and should not be affected. The money they payed should vanish from the cheaters' accounts, though. It is not hard to trace all the money, all that is required is some competence. =====
"If a member of the EVE community finds he or she cannot accept our current level of transparency, we bid you good luck in finding a company that meets your needs." - CCP kieron... |
Zathi Shaitan
Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:58:00 -
[1702]
Originally by: RedSplat Heres an idea:
This meeting coming up.
Broadcast it in real-time through an Eve channel or make an un-abridged recording of the meeting.
Hows that for transparency?
Shame CCP would never do that
That's impossible because 90% of those meetings are Euros with bad english trying to understand Icelandics with even worse English, and Americans are just idling, not understanding anything and missing Dunkin Donuts.
---- " Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/ |
Karina Bellac
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Posted - 2008.12.12 19:59:00 -
[1703]
Originally by: Zathi Shaitan
You spell like a 5 year old. So, we shall assume you also think like one, thus your post is ignored.
Or maybe they spell like a 25 year old for whom english is their fourth language. |
Baske
Space-Bar
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Posted - 2008.12.12 20:00:00 -
[1704]
Edited by: Baske on 12/12/2008 20:00:24
Originally by: Zathi Shaitan
Originally by: RedSplat Heres an idea:
This meeting coming up.
Broadcast it in real-time through an Eve channel or make an un-abridged recording of the meeting.
Hows that for transparency?
Shame CCP would never do that
That's impossible because 90% of those meetings are Euros with bad english trying to understand Icelandics with even worse English, and Americans are just idling, not understanding anything and missing Dunkin Donuts.
OK, I just flamed you....but this time you made me rofl...Thanks mate :)
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Zathi Shaitan
Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2008.12.12 20:04:00 -
[1705]
Hey, about 1 month ago... WARhammer Online was down for 35 minutes (they gave out a warning though) and offered every player a full day of subscription time.
*hint hint* CCP... this crap is worth at least a month free in order for many people to continue enduring this circus. ---- " Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/ |
XxHey BabyxX
Gallente University of Caille
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Posted - 2008.12.12 20:04:00 -
[1706]
Demand to CCP:
Terminate every Asset including Supercapitals, Capitals, T2 Blueprint, Ships and Moduls ownd by their newly merged Corp AMT. (from ASW and Moontemplars, confirmed cheaters)
While I write this, Evoke is evacuating the remaining of their "cheated" Supercapital fleet and Moonmaterials to Low sec.
Down with Cheaters!
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Zenologic
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.12.12 20:04:00 -
[1707]
Originally by: Sergeant Spot
Originally by: AkRoYeR and I put my money on....
1. BoB
2. Goonswarm
Way to go guys, game ruined! :(
I am a BoB director in a BoB industrial corp. A Corp who's primary purpose over the last 4 years has been POS/moon mining work. On many occations, I have personally done POS work (although I mostly build with the finished products...)
Yet I am strangely unbanned, and the entire corp is chugging along nicely. We look forward to up coming market changes.
......damn, that was no fun......
........ok, here is something for the emo crowd: HOW YOU SUCKERS LIKE PAYING MY ACCOUNT OVER THE LAST 4 YEARS!!!11111!!!! lol1111
Feel better?
WTF
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Annaphera
Minmatar Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.12.12 20:07:00 -
[1708]
Originally by: Pithecanthropus
Originally by: CCP Wrangler The effects of our actions against the exploiters will also be felt on the market as the production of the materials has been cut substantially.
For those that missed it... I put it in a nice quote above.
The market will be affected... and in the end the same players that put in time and hard work, are the same ones that are now going to have to rebound with more hard work. Do you really think that's an acceptable compensation for the damage this exploit has done? Do you think CCP is avoiding accountability and leaving the pile of trash caused by this left for the players to clean up?
Great... now I'm supposed to train and work hard in the alchemy process to fix your **** up.
*removes tinfoil hat* A few questions, here...
1) You seem to assume that people who are mining legit are going to see prices go down when the supply of duped minerals ends: "are the same ones that are now going to have to rebound with more hard work." Economics 101 - demand remains the same, but supply bottoms out - what exactly happens to price? Hint - "down" isn't part of the answer. So people that still mine the high-end will benefit. People that buy materials and produce T2 items are going to hurt for a bit, until more people learn "alchemy", but that's the way it should have been.
2) Please prove a link between this exploit and the introduction of "alchemy", and it better be good considering "alchemy" was released a while ago and BEFORE the exploit was identified. Unless you can prove the above, accusing CCP of making you learn alchemy to fix anything is just babble.
3) What do you expect CCP to do - dump a boatload of materials created out of nothing to keep the market stable? That's a rather outlandish expectation. Yes, the prices of T2's might rise some, but if they do, than that's where they should have been all along, right?
I'm personally looking for CCP to be as thorough as they can be in punishing the exploiters in this case, but I'm also rational enough to say that they should only go so far. They could pull everyone off of everything to pour over records and find every last person that took the slightest advantage (and knew they were), but that would be silly, don't you agree?
I seriously doubt that anything on the scale that disgruntled banned player was talking about could have been kept going for as long as he said it was, or it would have been as common knowledge as Ghost Training was. If CCP knew and ignored it, the player base would have circulated the knowledge almost freely, and more of us would have known...which isn't the case. So, my instinct is that the banned person lied to try to get even with CCP.
In the end, the real extent of it will be apparent simply in the magnitude of the account bans, and the flux of the market. I hope CCP gives us more information, but the market will tell the real story IMO.
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Zathi Shaitan
Minmatar Illiteracy Combatants
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Posted - 2008.12.12 20:08:00 -
[1709]
Originally by: Reithar Hi there i have read this link and I like to respond to what I have read.
When reading this 'link' i felt like everybody else that it isn't fair what those players did! I totaly aqgreed with CCP that they banned those players from EVE and destroyed there posses. The main reason for that is they abused an exploid and that isn't fair to others.
But on the other hand the market in EVE is accustomed to such a flow in components for a very long period (4 years). That by removing everything it will have a giant impact on everything that is going on at the T2 marktet.
This means (netto/netto) that every player in EVE is being punnished because a small group did find an exploid. That doesn't appear to be fair / honnest to all those other players. Everybody will suffer from this.....
The story get stranger / more intresting........
After reading this i took the liberty to have a look in google and did find a site called scraphead. And i did read a response from one of the players that was banned. This makes it even more intresting.....
Player involved wrote how they found this exploid and what they did after they found it...
- It was reported to CCP to make them aware of the exploid. - They only received a confirmation and that it was closed.
If this is true (I do not have any reason to doubt that at this time) the reaction of CCP to this exploid after 4 years goes a bit far.....and is rather out of line. Short spoken you can say: This is not done. Especially seen the fact that it was reported and was used for more then 4 years. Hench everybody is being punnished due to the fact that CCP has slipped this reported problem / exploid because the whole T2 market will have to recover from what CCP did.
Instead they should have fixed the exploid and then regulate the market for a certain amount of time so the impact wouldn't have such a dissasterious outcome to all of us players.
CCP is in there right to react like they did as long as they didn't have the information in an earlier stage and declined there intrest in this exploid. CCP should look at there own departments for neglecting this reported exploid.
And again it is not done to punish all for an abused exploid a few found out over such a long period.. . Just a concerned player
Really dude, can you spell "exploiT" properly ONE time, or you are really THAT stupid? ---- " Several unconventional alliances where made at that point " - Hey CCP, "where" != "were".. you too, Brutus? http://loseloose.com/ |
Kaptain Kruncher
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Posted - 2008.12.12 20:09:00 -
[1710]
Originally by: Ebon Rue Whoot! Yay for common sense prevailing in the midst of chaos. For those wondering, it went like this.
Player discovers exploit to create t2 mats out of thin air. Player shares exploit with a small group. This group proceeds to make billions of ISK as they flood the market with these t2 mats. CCP finds out, and perma bans those obviously implicit in the exploit. To be safe they wipe the assets of the involved corps. Player and group throws a tantrum, sets out to screw CCP. (Something made easy due to the handling of the T20 incident, trust is susceptible to sensationalist gossip.) CCP continues their thorough investigation while player base goes into a frenzy about an exploit that "OMG! CCP HAS KNOWN 4 FOUR years!!" An unproven fact that market numbers DO NOT support. Some players quit in anger, otherwise the world keeps turning until a journal is published on the matter.
Keep your head on your shoulders folks, bust out the tinfoil hats. This isn't PvP, it's PvCCP.
Finally- a voice of reason.
WTF people? If you bothered to read what "some1" wrote, he says they submitted a petition when it happened. Nothing happened as a result of the submission.
How that turns into CCP being in collusion with those corps or alliances is baffling to me. Really, it like a scene out of a Monty Python movie.
Chill out you F***ing Drama Queens.
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