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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Reiisha
Splint Eye Probabilities Inc. Dawn of Transcendence
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:01:00 -
[421]
Edited by: Reiisha on 14/01/2009 11:02:24 Consider, laptops with SM2 cards became the standard around 3 years ago. Laptops with SM2 cards can now be had for around $400-500 or so. It cost you at least $393 to actually *play* this game over the past 4 years.
People with desktops that are complaining are even more guilty of this whining about "having to upgrade". A GeForce 8600 GT is a card that can run Crysis quite smoothly on medium, and can be had for around $50-60 if you look around a bit.
Why would anyone want to keep the game back like this? Listen to yourself!
-"Please CCP, please continue to develop for computers that are 3 or more years out of date, and in most cases even lost support and warranty from the manufacturer!"-
And FYI, SM2 became the standard around 4 years ago, at the latest when Battlefield 2 was released. After Oblivion in 2006, it became the de facto requirement for all games after that. What many people here are saying is to keep EVE below the standards of even a 2005 game, because they can't afford new hardware, even though they've apparently been paying for EVE for at least half that long - Considering GTC's weren't always around in their current state. Can people please get off their high horses and let the 97% of people ( as quoted in the dev blog ) who actually have kept up with their hardware enjoy a properly modern game? If you really have trouble with your hardware like that, why not just go back to playing Elite? |
Snyder Aringdon
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:02:00 -
[422]
One thing to consider is how many of us (including myself) run EVE on a laptop (I know of three others who do), and have no external GPU to simply upgrade. My lappy only supports 4/3 pixelshader graphics. Getting a better graphics card means getting a new lappy/compy.
This is where you run into the issue of economics. As you know, the world economy is in the ****er, and saving money has become more important than ever. Buying a new compy isn't all that tough, but doing so when you don't know if you'll have a job in six months? Risky. |
Anvalor
Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:03:00 -
[423]
I think CCP could get more acurate information about how many people have to quit one account or more because of this change if they would make some kind of poll were they just ask how many accounts everyone has to close, if at all.
So they would not need to read through all the responses and still guess how many can continue playing eve or not. Just a sugestion. |
Markus Relic
Relic Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:05:00 -
[424]
Firstly, good work for bringing this to our attention so early, it really does need community discussion.
Dropping support for SM1 hardware seems entirely justified to me, but then i'm running SM3 hardware already! I do not like the performance hit i get from running two premium clients on the same machine but i do love the premium content, premium lite seems to give the best of both worlds here and plenty of scope to tweak performance to suit the machine.
Dropping the support for older (and especially portable) hardware platforms will be a pain for people who are using these machines to log in to change skills, jobs etc. when away from their main machine, but how many people are using SM1 hardware as their main machine to actually play EVE?
It seems to me that the problem that needs solving is the problem of accessing skill training, job management etc. from a low-spec machine, not neccesarily playing EVE on a low-spec machine. Maybe the API can be extended to compensate for this? The long asked for skill queue perhaps? Or an EVE client that can run on all sorts of hardware (smartphones?) that just gives access to character management etc.
If the dropping of support for SM2 hardware was put off a little longer than the end of 2009 would that give CCP enough time to find other ways to do the character and job management etc.?
But all in all, good plan CCP, i like it |
FireFoxx80
Caldari E X O D U S Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:08:00 -
[425]
With regards to the Steam Hardware Survey that people refer to, Valve themselves have admitted that Dx8 support is holding them back (TF2 uses Dx8, L4D uses Dx9).
I have no problem with CCP moving to a unified client, and dropping SM1 support. However, I think they'd make an unpopular decision to drop SM2 support later in the year.
What I do the rest of the time |
Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:15:00 -
[426]
I have access to 4 machines to play EVE -- I don't have 4 accounts (only 2), rather I play on one or two of the machines available. Only one of these, my home desktop, is SM 3.0 compatible, though it is only able to run one client at a time. By making SM 3.0 mandatory for EVE I would be unable to play when travelling with work (which I do a lot) or play with more than 1 account at a time. Such a restriction would be the end of EVE for me.
Cheers, Arrs
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Loka xDD
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:15:00 -
[427]
I have no doubts about droping SM1 support... but SM2? its gonna be a problem, atleast for me..
I do own a SM3 support computer.. a very good one, but I also play on my notebook, same as my brother. Both of it cant support SM3, it uses GM950 Intel Graphic Cards... and oh well, not planning to buy another notebook for a while =/
The thing is, Im a guy that prefer Performance over Uber Graphics.. I usually sets the configs of all games to lowest possible, and like to play fun games more than beautiful games made to force peoples to buy new expensive hardware =D
soo.. I hope CCP dont force me to buy new expensive hardware =X am I feeling nVidia touch here? oh nvm xD
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Erdiere
Minmatar Erasers inc.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:18:00 -
[428]
Originally by: SSgt Sniper
Also, premium graphics are fugly. They always were fugly, they will always be fugly. The one computer I have that can play with premium graphics has only had them downloaded for a total of five minutes. Then I dumped it.
Classic for life.
LOL
The crying in this thread is incredible, but I do have to say that the idea of introducing the ability to run Premium Lite with SM2.0 and then removing it after such a short amount of time does sound a bit strange.
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Dax T
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:23:00 -
[429]
I'm sorry but any percentage of SM2 people no matter how small will loose out if u drop support for it, remember they probably only have SM2 cards because they can't afford the others, it will also make a farce of your theory about running on a lo end spec machine. I would class people with SM2 cards as lo end nowadays so how can you justify just dropping these people when they have stuck by CCP from the start? Not good PR in my view.
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makanesi
Minmatar Solar Storm Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:28:00 -
[430]
Does this mean premium graphics will finally come to the mac? |
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Hamlin Brown
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:29:00 -
[431]
Ok I'm trying to be constructive here,
I started playing eve because it ran fine on my old computer which will not run if the classic client is phased out. One of the great things about this game is that it will run on older hardware. I'm really annoyed about this as I took out a second account and now after spending 4 months training the character you have just stopped the target PC from playing the game. I think this announcement would have been fairer if you had released this information in November before the promotion was announced. |
Jackie Fisher
Hegemony Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:30:00 -
[432]
Dropping SM1 support is less than 2 months away before it was announced? Perhaps giving more notice of this change would have been nice for those affected.
IIRC when Premium client was first released didn't CCP make available a utility so people could check if their PC was compatible. Something similar for SM2/3 would be a helpful gesture. |
Das Coperial
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:31:00 -
[433]
I'm running a Gateway laptop with an Intel 945GM video card. It supports PS 2.0 and DX 9.0. Not even an 'a' or 'c' on those version numbers. I'd insert a cute little sad face in the body of this reply somewhere, but it wouldn't come close to expressing the uber pwnage I feel knowing that my $180USD a year wont be enough for CCP anymore; that I'll have to invest in a whole new laptop in order to play Eve. Can maybe a GM at least buy me dinner first? |
Ser Prius
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:31:00 -
[434]
I have an Alienware Area-51 laptop with a ATI 9600 video card (128 mb memory). I can run Shader Model 2, but if you do away with support for that I'll be closing my two accounts. I understand that I might be able to come back at a later time and pay up the accounts and have everything still there if I buy better hardware, but loss of continutity would likely preclude this. I'm a miner and mission runner, so fleet battles and such don't interest me much. I understand about having two pipelines, blah blah, but you are going to lose a LOT of customers if you increase the hardware requirements. |
Osiris 27th
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:33:00 -
[435]
Edited by: Osiris 27th on 14/01/2009 11:35:41 My problem is that although I have a 6 series Geforce card that should run Premium it doesn't !! I have two machines that will not run anything but classic even though their cards are supposed to be capable of doing so.
I can of course upgrade, but that will require new motherboards too. |
Buga Buga
Hecate Inferno
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:38:00 -
[436]
I want wireframe mode plx |
Super Whopper
I can Has Cheeseburger
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:38:00 -
[437]
Originally by: Sky Marshal Tl;dr whine
No matter how many times you people are told something you insist on sticking your head in the sand and refuse to learn or accept the truth. For the last damned time. Vista is Windows 6 and Windows 7 is actually Win 6.1. Windows 7 is nothing more than an upgrade to Vista. The rest of your whine is meaningless because you're ignorant.
In the end CCP have taken the right step in the right direction. It will make life for them much easier as they will only have to maintain one client rather than two. Hopefully that will allow them to spend time on other things instead.
To everyone who insists on whining: can I haz ur stuff? |
Black Phlanx
Caldari Kingfisher Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:39:00 -
[438]
Edited by: Black Phlanx on 14/01/2009 11:44:48 I can understand the concerns of those that game on older laptops.. but can we get real here? Those users still using SM1 laptops, look at this. The 8800 series of cards were top of the line a year ago... nvidia phased them out in 6 months with the 9800 series... now we have the 200 series of cards completely making the 9800's obsolete. If you cannot afford anything more expensive than your ATI 850PRO then you must be getting paid in stones or something at your job. Older cards are DIRT CHEAP. You can get a Geforce 8400 GS series card for under $45 USD!
Technology moves forward, either try to keep up or get left behind. Most other companies wouldn't give a rats about losing older tech users (mainly because they don't still support anything lower than SM2) so don't take your anger out on CCP just because you want to keep your Pentium 1 laptop that's still running Windows 3.1
SM1 has been well overdue to get phased out. And like above said, if you're so against it then feel free to donate all your assets to me in a trade. |
Buga Buga
Hecate Inferno
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:39:00 -
[439]
Originally by: Jackie Fisher IIRC when Premium client was first released didn't CCP make available a utility so people could check if their PC was compatible. Something similar for SM2/3 would be a helpful gesture.
Yeah, CCP should also make a utility that checks if you have internet! |
Epitrope
The Citadel Manufacturing and Trade Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:41:00 -
[440]
I took the liberty of making my own pixel shader detector. It's tiny, it simply displays the highest pixel shader profile version supported by each of the video cards on the system.
The zip file includes the source, so you're welcome to recompile it if you feel it necessary (with the caveat that you need Visual C++ Express and the DirectX SDK).
If some CCPian wants to recompile it and add it to the dev blog, I think this could clear up some confusion... (since sadly this will be buried on page 15).
http://owenja.dyndns.org/files/shadermodel.zip |
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Buga Buga
Hecate Inferno
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:42:00 -
[441]
WHAT? Is the world so ******ed that it can;t freakin read the card specs? Just go the nvidia/ati site and look at your damn model and youll see what shader model it uses lol.. |
Freezehunter
Gallente O.W.N. Corp OWN Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:43:00 -
[442]
Right now i have a 6 year old Celeron with ATi 9250 graphics card..., PIXEL SHADER 1.3!!!
I should get a new PC next month, but if i don't i will be screwed and i won't be able to play Eve anymore...
At least give me a skill queue so i can put lots of lvl 4 and 5 skills in it 'till i upgrade :| |
Fennicus
Amarr Shoot To Thrill
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:43:00 -
[443]
Edited by: Fennicus on 14/01/2009 11:43:54 Methinks it would be a good idea for CCP to actually go out and find out how many players would be affected, rather than pluck a figure out of the air.
I too thought this was a good idea at first but then I realised the game would probably stop working on most players laptops, especially the ones who've been playing since/near to game release on the same machine.
Perhaps through some kind of Steam-esque hardware survey. |
Fionnbharr
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:44:00 -
[444]
Regarding the change to Shader Model 3 as a minimum requirement, I am in a rather comfortable position since I have SM3-capable GPU, albeit a low end one (Mobility Radeon X1400). So while I might have to reduce the quality settings with the Premium Light client - I run Classic at medium-ish settings in 1680x1050 -, I'd still be able to play EVE next year.
Still, I believe that requiring SM3-capable GPUs would be the wrong move. EVE needs to evolve, and I'm all for the Premium Lite idea. You cannot drag around legacy support forever, and merging the two clients into one as you plan for the March update will probably do a lot more good than harm. But you need to make absolutely sure that the vast majority of players won't be (too) negatively affected by such changes.
Yes, the average casual player will probably be able to run the Winter '09 update. Even if not, three months' worth of EVE subscription will buy him a mid-range SM3 graphics card. If this is out of the question even around Christmas, then maybe spending more than $130 a year on EVE isn't the best idea in the first place. But you're all but ignoring laptop users here! Yes, "most new onboard Intel cards support SM2 or SM3". But Laptops are sold with older technology for a much longer time than desktops, because latest-generation laptops are a lot more expensive than desktops. And on top of that, there's virtually no way to upgrade them, so you'll have to stick with your chosen technology for a much longer time.
So we're not talking about shutting out a few people with way-below-average systems, who on top of it could easily change that by spending a few bucks on a new GPU. We're talking about people who bought their laptops less than three years ago, and that's regarded from a Winter '09 perspective. Those people may make for a significant number of EVE players, especially if you count those who play EVE on their laptops only if they're away from home (i.e., the serious, long-time players). Those people would have to buy not a new computer but a new laptop to continue their current EVE experience.
I think this would be a much too radical change. You "predict that in q4 this year over 97% of subscribers will have SM3 capable hardware". Even if this were true, and considering notebook users, I am far from convinced it is, you'd probably upset a lot more than 3% of your users, especially among the serious, multiple-account, "EVE-away-from-home" players which I assume you value a lot.
Before you even consider this step, you should get solid statistics on the hardware capabilities your users have. Maybe add a hardware survey similar to Steam's. Add a user-hash and the age in years of the account, and you'll even get data on what kind of user uses what kind of hardware without violating their privacy. Then, if and when you know the time is right, go ahead with the update. Just don't do it too early. |
Buga Buga
Hecate Inferno
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:45:00 -
[445]
I bought a 2x9800gx2 to play Eve and people whine about "omagad I dont has sm2". The sm2 cards are so cheap you can even find them in the dumpsters around tech shops. |
KISOGOKU
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:46:00 -
[446]
You are good to go ,it has SM 4.0
Originally by: Kumi Unn ATI Radeon 3100 1918MB of memory
Can I run EVE?!
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Jackie Fisher
Hegemony Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:47:00 -
[447]
Originally by: Buga Buga Yeah, CCP should also make a utility that checks if you have internet!
They could bundle that up with the SM2/3 checker.
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Dark Background
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:56:00 -
[448]
Originally by: Qual I guess thats as good a reason as any to stop and look around at what other stuff is out there. After that long a bit of forced hand in stopping might not be that bad.
I'm also in this boat - no support for SM3 and welcoming someone raising the bar to test my loyalty to Eve. It will give me a natural point to assess if I'm really still enjoying Eve or it's just a habit.
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HyperZerg
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Posted - 2009.01.14 11:57:00 -
[449]
I remember around 3-4 Years ago I wanted to play Splinter-Cell but nooo, my Shader was only 1.1 :( This was one of the reasons to upgrade my PC. Also i bougth a Laptop last year:
Stats of both PCs:
dual 2,2GHz/2,5GHz Geforce 8600GT / 9500M 3GB Ram
So Eve will run for me anyway ;)
We have a BIG Problem here. Eve has to adapt, upgrade the Graphic-Content to get new Players. To maintain 2 Versions of the same game is a really stupid idea so they get one with some extra features. But: Many people here play Eve not because of the nice Graphic, no they love this unique sandbox. Make it easy, write a small tool that asks the player on one start with a nice Popup if he would like to upload his system-specs, at least CPU/RAM/Graphics. If you see 99% use Shader 3, change it. If only 70% use Shader 3 ..... think about it.
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TamiyaCowboy
Caldari The White Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2009.01.14 12:00:00 -
[450]
myself can ride out the storm. i spent last year ú700 gbp on a whole new system.
i can understand the need too remove certain things CCP but have you realy thought out what would be required for an upgrade.
GF5600 Ultra does not require a extra powersource too run said card.
gf6600 LE. this card require a minimum 300w psu too help run card
gf9600 GT. this card require a minimum 400w psu too run card
so not only does one have too upgrade a graphics card they may/will have too also upgrade thier power supply too cope with the new card being installed let alone thier pc being able too run this card without showing bottlenecks here and there. this is real life money some folks just wont have what with the way things are money wise. could be a upgrade pc or leave eve-online.
my old pc was a single core 2.4ghz 478 socket northwood, had 1gb ram and a 6600LE nvidia card. i could never run premium graphics with a decent enough frame rate, and was stuck with classic client. i then upgraded too a 7600 nvidia card. yet again could not use premium client as frame rate (14fps) was too low too play with.the new quad core and 9600 i run lets me have 160+ fps a massive jump in frame rate and the fancy graphics but at a huge cost too my real life wallet.
personaly i would keep SM2 untill next year this time, and while waiting and doing fancy things gather infomation on what the public are running eve on. get an idea of exactly the lowest shader model is being used by public. not everyone can throw around real life isk now. 2 months is not much of a warning!!
Tami
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