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| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Khorkrak
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:37:00 -
[241]
Edited by: Khorkrak on 14/01/2009 00:36:53
I don't see a problem with this at all - you're playing a graphics intensive 3D game get a video card that'll do the job. It is shameful though that the linux client lags behind the Windows client due to CCP writing their code against the proprietary DirectX library instead of OpenGL. Especially given that much of the code is written in Python.
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Anubisalt
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:37:00 -
[242]
THis is gonna bite a lot of us in the butts here very quickly, if what ccp says is true and they discontinue shader model 2.0 support with the winter 2009 expansion a lot of us are not gonna be playing anymore.
Look at the other game companies out there, Star Trek Online is being released so folks with crappy systems can play it, so why cant ccp continue support of systems that canplay it now. I mean come on guys yeah good graphics is great and all but think of the lot of us that are stuck without new PC's, and dont wanna upgrade just for one friggin game.
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CCP Explorer
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:41:00 -
[243]
 Originally by: brakespear
How will this affect those currently unable to use Premium due to trinity.dll / blue.dll issues? Has a fix been identified? Or will Premium Lite not cause these errors?
Please explain, what "trinity.dll / blue.dll issues"?
Erlendur S. Thorsteinsson
Software Director
EVE Online, CCP Games |
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Beani Kliadi
Caldari
Ziontech Industries
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:45:00 -
[244]
i have two comps, i'd have to go and update one with a new graphics card, gonna need something AGP 8x, kinda hard to find atm  the other computer has a Nvidia series 7 card AGP 8x. so please dont upgrade it for than this or ill be buying two new comps 
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TalonClark
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:45:00 -
[245]
Well, this is not easy.
I think EVE has to decide if it wants to be just a modern game, or it wants to be a LIFESTYLE. The difference?
1. game: you play the game a few hours a day just for relaxing purpose. You do that on your gaming-rig (uptodate-desktop or gameing-laptop) as you do with other games. You are ready to upgrade the rig when needed to play your games.
2. lifestyle: the game is just a platform for your gaming-experience in an online-community. When you play, you often dont really play, but you chat/talk, check news, change skill or station-trade. You want to have access to this platform from everywhere, maybe even at work, or from your mobile, laptop, netbook, e-reader....
Now, the devblog seems to analyze the problem just from a "gameing" view, meaning you see EVE as just a game and for that you suppose most ppl have a gameing rig or are willing to update for the game.
BUT my impression was (fanfest anyone? Oveur?) that you want EVE to be a lifestyle, a platform for the community to experience EVE. So, you want to enable your customers to access EVE from everywhere (eve-mobile project?).
For that you have to analyze the market and whats to come in the next 2-3 years:
1. NETBOOKS: thats right, the new flavor of the year are netbooks, they come cheap (often for free in some kind of contract with providers/mobile internet). They dont support any fancy grafics, and wont for years to come.
2. MOBILE PHONES: need i say anything? some ppl already have smartphones that can handle EVE today for minor tasks.
3. e-book readers: YEP thats the future, 0,5-1cm flat computers that will have their breakthrough in the comming 2-3 years, first models come out first half 2009 and will go color in 2010 slowly replacing the netbooks/working notebooks in 2011.
ALL this 3 trends will have no fancy grafics, so dont count on SM3.0 or even SM1.0.
What would i do? BEFORE cancelling support for anything, make a NEW client just for minor tasks that never require UNDOCKING, and this client shouldnt need 3d-grafics at all. Then, cancel support for SM2.0. Otherwise you will lose on the new trends.
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Zepher8062
Angels Of Divine Fury
Space Exploration and Logistic Services
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:46:00 -
[246]
Everything sounds good to me. Just got one question....
When will it hit the test servers?
If its already there.. /me smacks head on desk.. I just didnt feel like downloaing the test client yet if not.
AODF...Making the Roids Pay for What they Did...
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:55:00 -
[247]
CCP, can I make a suggestion?
It seems to me that it should be fairly easy for you to whip up a survey, and distribute it through the clients, and you know, scan people's computers to get a fair idea about whether or not these computers can really handle these graphic changes you're proposing.
I play on a laptop, and I'll admit it's not very good, I use my laptop cause A) it was a gift, and B) I'm in university and a laptop is very useful for writing up papers.
I'm not a causal Eve player, per se, but I simply don't have the hardware to play it in premium.
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Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 00:55:00 -
[248]
Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 14/01/2009 01:04:19
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
Originally by: Xol'tan
If someones to lazy to upgrade its one thing but is some one is to poor to upgrade the cash there wasting on eve would be better spent on food and rent.
since you can buy game time for isk your point is pretty useless tbh
That and MMOs are probably some of the cheapest entertainment (cost per hour) money can buy (assuming that you define your cable connection as a basic necessity).  People fail to realize this... "oh god, I lost my job, I'm quitting my game!"... *goes to movie* *buys ice cream* *pays cable TV bill* *pays newspaper subscription (though all the same **** is available for free online)* *subscribes to playboy or some other rubbish*
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Rika Greyt
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:01:00 -
[249]
I have to use a laptop. If the winter 2009 version drops 2.0, I am SOL. Dropping 1.0 is not a biggie for me.
I specifically tried out Eve in trial mode to check that I would not have to shell out graphics bucks. Many people will be cutting back this next year: if I have to buy another machine, I may have to cut Eve.
I second the stick figure option: Elite is still what I pretend I'm playing (with a better economy).
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Paul Roberts
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:02:00 -
[250]
Edited by: Paul Roberts on 14/01/2009 01:03:58
My one and only question is - How long will I be able to test this new 'permium lite' on the test server? As i have issues with my current gfx card being a radion x1900xtx with apparent shader3 to my knowledge and dual client running causing a couple and only a couple of issues.
Edited due to r andom spaces and bad spag (nothing like drinking like Ovour and trying to type)
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wickedpheonix
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:08:00 -
[251]
I am not one of those affected by the change - my desktop runs an nVidia 8800 while my laptop's a new Centrino 2 so they both run SM4. However, I do think that if your machine is running a card that hasn't been supported for over 6 years then it's time to upgrade - honestly, go out and buy one of those $500 netbooks and it will probably run EVE just fine, otherwise spend $100 on a video card for your desktop and you'll be OK.
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Enma Sylphide
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:10:00 -
[252]
Making SM3 compulsory or not, I think making a stripped down client which only allows you to change skill and/or chat will make most people here happy, including those with laptops that cannot support SM3.0. Anyway, better graphics does not always translate to better game play. Many MMO games have top notch graphics but are total cr*p.
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Miney Prospector
Caldari
Noob Mercs
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:11:00 -
[253]
It's about time.
I wouldn't worry about the people saying they are going to quit since their laptop from 1997 isn't going to be able to play the game anymore. I also get a chuckle from the people who say they will take the time to stop and go look at other games. Once they realize the only thing their antique computer will play is freecell, perhaps they will wake up.
CCP needs to keep pace with standard hardware. Premium Lite is a great idea for multiboxing and fleet engagements but sometimes I like to turn everything all the way up and fly a mission or two and enjoy the visuals. I look forward to the day when Eve will make my dual gtx 260's beg for mercy, I just hope it isn't in 2025.
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Xori Ruscuv
Multiversal Enterprise Inc.
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:13:00 -
[254]
Originally by: Miney Prospector
It's about time.
I wouldn't worry about the people saying they are going to quit since their laptop from 1997 isn't going to be able to play the game anymore. I also get a chuckle from the people who say they will take the time to stop and go look at other games. Once they realize the only thing their antique computer will play is freecell, perhaps they will wake up.
It's not an issue of quitting, it's an issue of playing a game that demands a login schedule, thus "forcing" customers to purchase new hardware just to play the game. Fortunately, CCP isn't full of devs who are *******s like yourself. 
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Tiberius Nazamir
The International Brotherhood of Asian Descent
Collective Asylum
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:15:00 -
[255]
I agree with a lot of the previous posts, while most of us own rigs that have a card with the new Shaders and when we play, we play on those systems. But, sometimes we aren't at home with that rig and would like to just be able to log on to change a skill or chat with our friends and the laptops we would use for that now may not meet the new standard.
That being said, I'm all for upgrading the graphic technology and discontinuing Classic content. In it's place, perhaps development on a light chat and character interface for the game should be pursued. I know there was some discussion about EVE Mon being given access to Corp and Alliance chat not too long ago.
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wickedpheonix
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:15:00 -
[256]
Sorry if this ends up being a double-post, but...
Originally by: TalonClark
Edited by: TalonClark on 14/01/2009 00:51:38
What would i do? BEFORE cancelling support for anything, make a NEW client just for minor tasks that never require UNDOCKING, and this client shouldnt need 3d-grafics at all. Then, cancel support for SM2.0. Otherwise you will lose on the new trends.
Although I support this, the developers said in that blog that they were dropping Classic for the specific reason of having only 1 build of the game. Of course, what you describe can be accomplished on a purely text basis and probably wouldn't take more than a day's worth of coding for all platforms involved combined, but then again I'm not familiar with how EVE's internal databases work so it could take a bit more effort than that to not only code it but support it, through multiple expansions and potential software architecture changes.
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Alexandra Lucille
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:32:00 -
[257]
It seems I am in the same boat as many others in this thread. Dropping SM2 support would leave me unable to play EVE on my laptop which, incidentally, is able to easily handle everything else I use it for.
Buying a new laptop exclusively for EVE seems somewhat excessive, regardless of how much I may enjoy the game... |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:33:00 -
[258]
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
if you want to use a laptop for something it's not actually designed for i.e gaming then im afraid you have to pay quite a decent amount of money for an actual GAMING laptop as apposed to a normal laptop which are designed for business users.
Except this was designed as a laptop for gaming.
It cost like $2000 when it was released and, unlike many laptops on the market at the time, had dedicated graphics rather than onboard.
It was well above Eve's minimum specs, and so I bought it *because* it would play Eve.
It was very much a gamers laptop. |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:38:00 -
[259]
Edited by: Avon on 14/01/2009 01:42:05
Edited by: Avon on 14/01/2009 01:40:25
Originally by: Khlitouris RegusII
Try reading the actual dev blog less codepaths=improved performance on the codepath they can focus on rather than having 2 dodgy half arsed clients.
I read the DevBlog.
However, I am dubious that dropping Classic will lead to improvements in Eve in general.
For a start, as I pointed out before, even if you only lose 5% of the playerbase that is over $200k in lost revenue (per month).
Either you gotta lose some devs, thus making improvements more unlikely, or take a huge hit in profits in the hope that you make up the numbers later.
Or, you keep some manpower on Classic, keeping your subscribers, and continue to be able to fund futher development of Premium. |
Nova Fox
Gallente
Novafox Shipyards
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Posted - 2009.01.14 01:55:00 -
[260]
I want a 1-3 year delay in sm 2.0 removal with constant reminders with plans to remove it. Hopefully by then far more computers with 2.0 will no longer be operational. |
Zedah Zoid
Nutz N Boltz
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:06:00 -
[261]
I would be in favor of CCP releasing a one time hardware scan utility(with appropriate user notification of course) to do a hardware scan and get some real statistics.
As for my data point, I run a stripped down XP on a P4 2.4Ghz 512Mb RAM, GeForce 6200 128Mb RAM. An upgrade is not in the near future(12-18 months). I will not be putting more RAM or upgraded graphics card in this machine as it is simply not worth it. When the system is replaced the whole thing needs to go.
I also login on a laptop, and OLD Evo n610c with a Radeon 7500 Mobility chipset. I know this will not meet a 2.0 requirement, much less 3.0. This would be a negative impact to my game play but I currently use this only to do quick chats and change market sell/buy orders, so it would not be a game stopper if this laptop was obsoleted. Good luck CCP and do some research, don't mess up the unique demographic you have going in this game. |
Moon Kitten
GoonFleet
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:08:00 -
[262]
Removing support for SM 2.0 cards is great. Poor people shouldn't be playing video games, they should be out working. Great Plan CCP! |
Jamie Hara
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:11:00 -
[263]
Originally by: CCP Explorer
Originally by: brakespear
How will this affect those currently unable to use Premium due to trinity.dll / blue.dll issues? Has a fix been identified? Or will Premium Lite not cause these errors?
Please explain, what "trinity.dll / blue.dll issues"?
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=686575
It's on the first page in the issues and workarounds subforum fyi. |
TalonClark
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:15:00 -
[264]
Edited by: TalonClark on 14/01/2009 02:20:37
Edited by: TalonClark on 14/01/2009 02:16:38
Originally by: wickedpheonix
Edited by: wickedpheonix on 14/01/2009 01:16:11
Originally by: TalonClark
Edited by: TalonClark on 14/01/2009 00:51:38
What would i do? BEFORE cancelling support for anything, make a NEW client just for minor tasks that never require UNDOCKING, and this client shouldnt need 3d-grafics at all. Then, cancel support for SM2.0. Otherwise you will lose on the new trends.
Although I support this, the developers said in that blog that they were dropping Classic for the specific reason of having only 1 build of the game. Of course, what you describe can be accomplished on a purely text basis and probably wouldn't take more than a day's worth of coding for all platforms involved combined, but then again I'm not familiar with how EVE's internal databases work so it could take a bit more effort than that to not only code
Thats why i said the dev-blog seems to analyze the problem only from a "eve is just a game"-view. They ignore the fact EVE is very much played in a different way, because of the gamedesign supporting this (chat/market/skill....)
Originally by: Nova Fox
I want a 1-3 year delay in sm 2.0 removal with constant reminders with plans to remove it. Hopefully by then far more computers with 2.0 will no longer be operational.
But thats the point, the new technologies and trends to come in the next 1-3 years all focus on mobile platforms ignoring high-performance gaming rigs, meaning if EVE goes this way without a 2nd client supporting mobile solutions they will lose out on the trends, and somehow i remember the devs stating often enough that they wanted ppl to be able to play the market, change skill and so on on mobile solutions or from work
i'm quite surprised that EVE wants to change their focus on beeing a platform to beeing just a game. The main focus of EVE should be making it available on all platforms not restricting the use to a niche crowd (PC gaming ppl with high-end gaming rigs). |
Annaliese Witschak
Galgorth's Corporation
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:16:00 -
[265]
Edited by: Annaliese Witschak on 14/01/2009 02:17:37
Didn't want those laptop/netbook users anyway. |
Xailz
Godless Horizon.
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:32:00 -
[266]
While i agree that this really should happen (For all its supposed advantages) and the fact EvE has been running on the same specs for a damn long time, i have to put the idea down because of a simple fact, CCP need to look out for the player base and this will negatively effect a good few, alot more then any nerf.
When it comes to going Full Premium, i think that will always be a big nono, the fast growing population of eve is forcing people to buy better machines even now, a machine on the edge of requirements for Full Prem running in classic mode gets to around 200 ish players in a fight and it begins to become unplayable, this isnt looking after the player base at all
But then, sure it's a hobby and they cost money alot more then the price of eve and a pc upgrade even every year, best way to play this would definitely be looking for player machine specs and bringing to light how many people lose out from this in the terms of Laptop devices before proceeding.
Xailz |
Bo'Tox
Amarr
Arkor Inc
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:33:00 -
[267]
Hi CCP,
I was going to complain bitterly but then I looke dup my Laptop (over a year old) runnning Nvidia 8000 sereis and it runs 4.0 so I say out with the old 2.0...
Lets beef up the hardware specs so we can get a better gaming experience...
(As if WIS wouldnt require us to upgrade the hardware anyway!)
And, No, you wont loose a lot of people (if any) due to this.... Ignore the Doomsayers! |
Emperor D'Hoffryn
No Quarter.
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:34:00 -
[268]
Its probably way too soon to drop SM2 support. Even on fancy new laptops, such as my new Lenovo W500 which has an ATI HD 3650 with 256 megs of dedicated video memory, these "modern" video chipsets are MOBILE variants....meaning even when plugged in they run slower and lack pipelines the full desktop versions have.
This makes sense, due to thermal and power constraints...however it means its deceiving to look at the specs and say, hey, its good to go. This is mainly because a laptop that comes with this "fancy" of a card also comes with a fancy LCD panel....mine does 1920x1200....and running the current premium client at that res, even when plugged in, routinely drops to a 45ish FPS...already dangerously low....and it supports DirectX 10.2 and SM4. Dropping resolutions looks crappy due to scaling.
I run classic on it to save battery life and get a faster FPS....other people with brand new laptops (mine is less then a month old) likely due the same. |
BiggestT
Caldari
Resurrection
Skunk-Works
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:34:00 -
[269]
Why are people so up in their pants about this?
It costs what $30-$40 (AU) for a sm3 card?
Anyone paying for an EVE subscription can afford that.
And if you're paying via in game bought gtc's, then you must have plenty of time on your hands to pick up some extra work.. |
Impalia Fematatia
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Posted - 2009.01.14 02:35:00 -
[270]
Just as a direct comment to CCP:
I have three machines, and three accounts. I'm stating a point of fact in my own gaming world:
If the Premium Lite client does not offer comparable framerates to the current classic client on 5900xt and 5950 Ultra nVidia hardware- my accounts close.
I can afford to keep one machine at the bleeding edge. But two of my boxes are older AGP machines. They are not going to be upgraded.
EVE has always been a wonderful game for me. I need multiple accounts to enjoy playing- one account is simply not enough "mental traffic" for me. I'm sure there are many others who play the same way.
I think this is a mistake as planned. The classic client is a marvelous selling point. CCP, you would be better to extend the Premium client to new levels of eye candy, while extending the low end client WAY down in requirements so EVE could be played on a toaster. |
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