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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
TheG2
Gallente Dirty Rotten Scoundrels
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Posted - 2009.01.16 05:13:00 -
[871]
Edited by: TheG2 on 16/01/2009 05:14:15 The removal of SM 2.0 will result in my dropping my subscription. Yes my desktop is my primary gaming machine, but I primarily use my laptop for EVE. Take away my ability to run EVE from my couch while watching TV or while on the road and I'm done.
Also, my roommates, who collectively have 5 accounts, will also probably quit.
Sorry to hear your development process is slow, but that's not the consumers' problem. |
zombu2
Caldari legion of qui Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.01.16 05:17:00 -
[872]
Edited by: zombu2 on 16/01/2009 05:18:55 every game has increased requirements from month to month and they all want ppl to play their game stuff gets old and obsolete and needs to be replaced nothing to do with logic it s a question how the whole economy is run increased system requirements = more high end system sales ... more high end systems = better games
well sad to see players gone but if you think about leaving because you can not sit and play while watching tv sorry i got no symphathy for you
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Mikalya
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.01.16 05:22:00 -
[873]
Originally by: zombu2
every game has increased requirements from month to month and they all want ppl to play their game stuff gets old and obsolete and needs to be replaced nothing to do with logic it s a question how the whole economy is run increased system requirements = more high end system sales ... more high end systems = better games
Hint: Sales of anything other than basic consumer grade machines are WAAAAY down.
Quote:
well sad to see players gone but if you think about leaving because you can not sit and play while watching tv sorry i got no symphathy for you
Not expecting sympathy. We have other options to play. The question is whether Eve can take the subscription losses and whether YOU will have a game afterwards. I hope so, but it is a concern.
If you don't, I'll see you in the skies in Aces High and all your fancy graphics won't save you
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zombu2
Caldari legion of qui Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.01.16 05:26:00 -
[874]
eve has survived many whining threats and it will survive this one and many others to come
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Mickey Simon
Noir.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 05:26:00 -
[875]
Looks like a plan CCP. Only thing I take issue with is the stupid naming of the "Lite" version. Call it standard or something. Premium implies it's . . . well, premium. Kinda stupid to have two things which are comparable and call them both premium.
To everyone whinging: Buy a new ****ing graphics card. It's 2008. You're playing a 3D game. DX 9.0 (and SM 2.0 which IIRC was brought out along with DX 9.0) has been the standard for the past 5/6 years (maybe more? I can't remember). If you can't afford the $30 it would cost to upgrade your old-as-a-grandpa GPU, then how do you manage to play EVE given it costs half of that each month!?
SM 2.0 is old and SM 3.0 is hardly new (4 years there?).
While I think it would be nice to keep SM 2.0 support (purely because I understand some people do like being able to run it on old-as-crap computers) it's not unreasonable for a game which is upgraded so regularly like EVE to not support old technology.
But seriously: I understand why people are QQ'ing. But it's something you folks need to get over. CCP isn't going to lose a lot of customers over this - no matter what you say. Even if they do, the fact they only have to maintain 1 lot of clients means they'll probably still be making money from this change.
Blah. Rant over. Meanwhile, on the other side of town . . . |
Mikalya
Amarr Viziam
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Posted - 2009.01.16 05:58:00 -
[876]
Originally by: zombu2 eve has survived many whining threats and it will survive this one and many others to come
Yeah, I'm trolling a little bit
Still think it is a bad decision to increase hardware costs during a world-wide economic downturn. When money gets tight, entertainment is the first thing to go. |
zombu2
Caldari legion of qui Southern Connection
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Posted - 2009.01.16 06:06:00 -
[877]
hmm as far as i can tell hardware prices are falling
well i m off to bed it s like 2 here o/
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Wolfie276
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Posted - 2009.01.16 06:35:00 -
[878]
i think its a bit stupid to increase the hardware requirements, but its not a bad idea for the people with a computer to run these things
i would recommend keeping both graphics modes, and maybe add more options to premium
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Bacabachaui
Two Brothers Mining Corp.
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Posted - 2009.01.16 06:48:00 -
[879]
I am having trouble trying to figure out if my laptop, a Dell B130 has shader model 2. I bought it from Dell in September of 2007 and my display adapter is a Mobile Intel(R) 915GM/GMS,910GML Express Chipset Family. Anyone know? I clicked the link to the Wiki page and it lists Intel GMA 900, 950, 3000, 310 but it is not specifically listing my specs.
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Danae Ori
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Posted - 2009.01.16 07:30:00 -
[880]
Are these the only upcoming changes in system requirements?
No-one's happy to fork out extra $$$ on a game they've been happily playing for months, if not years.
If CCP removes SM 2 support, I won't quit, but I will definitely think about it. I play Eve on a laptop and these machines are a headache to upgrade. Besides, isn't Eve's niche in gameplay not graphics? Sexy games have bombed in the past... Matrix Online, SWG, Stormreach, etc. due to poor gameplay issues.
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.16 07:42:00 -
[881]
Quote: In Apocrypha, March 10th, we discontinue support for ShaderModel 1, making ShaderModel 2 (GeForce FX (5 series) or ATi R300 series cards or compatible) the minimum requirement and discontinue the "Classic client" version of EVE, replacing it with "Premium Lite"
I think that this is a bad idea. Call it "Lite Client" or "Classic¦ Client". Otherwise the names of the clients become absurd... --- "Multiple exclamation marks are a sure sign for a diseased mind." -Terry Pratchett |
Shea Klant
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:08:00 -
[882]
Finally.
Sooner or later you just have to take the hit and cut your loses. My heart goes out to those people, not really, who won't be able to run their 12 mining clients on a bunch of old mchines, but come on already, the other 150,000 of us have been chompin at the bit for several years now waiting for graphical upgrades and optimizations that take advanatage of what even the most modest of $100 video cards have supported for the last 5 years.
If they are tailoring their numbers to bumping just 3% of the accounts off because of old hardware, I say they are being very generous.
My advice for the 10 client running crowd, let half your accounts expire. The money you'll save on accounts, and probably in electricity would let you replace the the ten junkers with a pair of multi-screen machines that could run all the clients and then some for many years to come.
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Gneeznow
Minmatar Cruoris Seraphim
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:08:00 -
[883]
I'll miss the claymore and vaga on classic, they both look awful in premium, the vaga especially its the worst looking ship in the game on premium.
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Squably
Minmatar Invenio Inceptum
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:32:00 -
[884]
Originally by: Toad Black Edited by: Toad Black on 15/01/2009 00:53:36 Check the news. On the same day as this announcement, they announced public beta of premium content on OS/X. Which hopefully means premium content on Linux will follow shortly, since afaik OS/X uses opengl ...
I'm gonna buy a 3 month sub in mid feb, if they discontinue Linux support in early March they're gonna owe me a refund ...
FYI branching in shaders is implemented by following both paths... it's still faster?
are your really relying on the official linux client? Its crap and useless coz its cedega, wrong option imho but mkay. I can run 2 Premium Clients without a hassle using wine Signature removed. Please do not imply profanity in your signature. Navigator
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Ab Tallen
Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:37:00 -
[885]
On a side note, just because something supports SM3.0, that doesn't say anything about how good it is at that.
If you take Space Giraffe as an example for a game that relies heavily on shader programs - well, it runs on a notebook with ATI X1300 graphics, just at maybe 2/3rds of the normal speed.
EVE currently is not very GPU-bound, but that will change through the addition of more shader stuff, and lower end graphics hardware will fall off much more quickly than it did until now.
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Solanio
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:41:00 -
[886]
Originally by: Shea Klant My advice for the 10 client running crowd, let half your accounts expire.
I am sure CCP's CEO likes your suggestion.
I am a longterm (since release) and high value (multiaccounting) customer. I have been voluntarily upgrading the different computing machines that I used over the past years, especially to allow multiaccounting. Any other company would love to have and keep me as a customer, CCP on the other hand seems to like to try and see if I am willing to now non-voluntarily spend some money so I can keep on playing the same game and keep on giving them alot of money every month. Being forced to use premium is not a selling point to either get new or keep existing customers. Very simple. And it's not like those people that run one account atm, will go and subscribe a 2nd or 3rd account because of these changes. |
Moon Childe
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Posted - 2009.01.16 09:47:00 -
[887]
Edited by: Moon Childe on 16/01/2009 09:47:35 Let's not be to hasty here! those people who are putting down the premium content think of the devs who spent all there time creating it to get slandered! jeeez! and pls reread the blog espesaly this bit:
In the Winter Expansion 2009 we are considering discontinuing support for ShaderModel 2 and make the minimum specification ShaderModel 3(GeForce 6 class cards or ATi x1300 or compatible)
this is not set in stone. dont make assumbtions. |
Myfanwy Pisces
P H O E N I X
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:01:00 -
[888]
Auw dang! That there microwave is shore gonna need an upgrade for lans sake!
I'm all torn up, she usta play two fiddles without a care, ya she did.
Mind to rip out them there wars and stuff it full of them fancy new do hickeys with a lick an a promise. She'll be lit up like them lightening bugs!
Can't wait though, it'll be an excuse to upgrade - though I will miss all the classic models. Tons of fond memories... *skips off with a camera to 'git some'...* |
AnkorWat
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:02:00 -
[889]
Edited by: AnkorWat on 16/01/2009 10:13:48
CCP are famous for just doing stuff anyway even if people dont like whats coming.
Its about time we got a few more space onlinegames so that ccp starts to feel the heat, atm they can do as they want but, thankfully there some new space online games on the way.
Then there is no room for silly announcements or just doing what the hell they want anyway it will cost them more money right away as people can jump and try a new space game right away, that maybe works well and dont require multiple accounts if you want to get somewhere in the game! |
Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:09:00 -
[890]
Originally by: Kagura Nikon
Originally by: Mara Rinn Edited by: Mara Rinn on 15/01/2009 02:17:36 Edited by: Mara Rinn on 15/01/2009 02:16:22
Originally by: Kagura Nikon The only thing that limits how many clients you can run is main system memory and CPU itself. In 9 of 10 cases will be memory bottlenecked (system, not video card)
I have problems running two clients in Premium, but can run just fine in Classic, only because Premium uses far more texture memory than Classic.
The bottleneck in my case is that the graphics card only has 128MB for texture memory. Multiple instances of the EVE client do not share textures, so I'll end up with the same textures loaded twice, effectively cutting the graphics card down to 64MB of texture memory for each client.
In my case, I'd be able to run multiple independent clients on my laptop without any trouble if it was possible to turn textures off.
One optimisation that CCP could make is for the one client to allow multiple simultaneous sessions, thereby keeping all the graphics assets in memory for only 1 client. Each flight window would be part of one application - this would allow other efficiencies such as only sending object details down the pipe once instead of once for each client as it jumps into system or loads the grid at the end of warping in.
but that is completely unrelated to the SM used. My observations are upon people being worried on the SM2 to SM3 move. That move will have zero NEGATIVE impact result as long as your card has SM3 capabilities.
Also if CCP wanted to do it right they could easily make both accounts running share the same textures resources. They just need to wake up and make the game client multi-account capable. The card drivers would solve the rest by themselves. That would completely remove the memmory factor from the multi account issue.
The complain is a valid one but unrelated to shader models. But does not make less true that CCP should wake up and do something that is SIMPLE as sharing render contexts. And don't dare CCP to tell me this is difficult, I just implemented not long ago at work a shared rendering context between 10 tomographic 3d reconstruction viewers sharing the same resources in a single rendering process. Took me a few hours. Any well designed system with a well decoupled graphic system can do it as well.
well SM version IS related to graphics memory usage. SM3 supports longer programs, better math precision and more instructions. This means that the graphics card has to store larger shader programs, also the working set will be larger (more data handling). AND texture limits are different also, so generaly SM3 games use better and larger textures than SM2 games. |
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Moon Childe
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:13:00 -
[891]
Originally by: AnkorWat CCP are famous for just doing stuff anyway even if people dont like whats coming.
Its about time we got a few more space onlinegames so that ccp starts feel the heat atm they can do as they want but, thankfully there some new space online games on the way
Ok i see where your coming from and competion is good for both CCP and us but let me ask one question What do you think the min hardware spec's will be for the new games? cutting edge? i bet you that they will be. |
omgdutch2005
Gallente Advanced Planetary Exports Intergalactic Exports Group
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:23:00 -
[892]
For all those who run classic on a good pc: it will only drain cpu... on premium, it uses the gfx aswell (so less cpu usage).
It would be a good idea to have a small coding check what gfx card is being used...
p.s. allow up to 10 diffrent setups per users as some might swap accounts between diffrent computers...
I for instance run eve now 2x on 4850 (150 euro for 1 card is not that much, i was lucky enough to get a pci-e mobo cuz my bro upgraded, else i would be "stuck" at amd64 x2 3800+)
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Bibi
Basic Tritanium Mining North
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:28:00 -
[893]
Edited by: Bibi on 16/01/2009 10:33:57
Moon Childe I run multiple accounts in eve for making isk.
Now if I have to upgrade my computer why would I continue playing eve! when a new game could possibly allow me less trouble and no need for multi-accounting as I now do in eve to get somewhere in the game. Dont tell me you get far in eve on one account just dont tell me that.
So less trouble for me multitasking, less accounts to pay for, Its not like I super enjoy multi accounting in eve but if you pvp most of your time in game its damn nice to be able to get a isk flow going and not spend half of your bloody game time building up your wallet.
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Hugh Ruka
Exploratio et Industria Morispatia
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:35:00 -
[894]
Originally by: zombu2 Edited by: zombu2 on 16/01/2009 04:03:06 even if they loose 10% of their customers i think they save more money not maintaining the classic client since they do not have to do the work twice
it s a win win situation in my eyes
well simple maths: 10% from cca 250 000 paying accounts (I think there's more 300k but just to keep things simple) = 25 000 accounts * 14euro/month = 350 000euro/month LOSS ... the artist they employ must ve VERY expensive. I mean even if one get's 5 000 euro/month that's still 70 artists/programmers/janitors/whatever ... I don't think the art department is that large ... |
AnkorWat
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:36:00 -
[895]
I agree Bibi
CCP just gamble with their subscribers! |
Jojo Redana
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:42:00 -
[896]
Originally by: AnkorWat Edited by: AnkorWat on 16/01/2009 10:13:48
CCP are famous for just doing stuff anyway even if people dont like whats coming.
Few people are always whining about changes. People are afraid of changes.
Quote:
Its about time we got a few more space onlinegames so that ccp starts to feel the heat, atm they can do as they want but, thankfully there some new space online games on the way.
I'm a space man too. It's not just there's few games coming, they can't even touch Eve-online... You can't seriously compare Eve-online and some other FPS-style space shooter/mmo-wanna-be.
Quote:
Then there is no room for silly announcements or just doing what the hell they want anyway it will cost them more money right away as people can jump and try a new space game right away, that maybe works well and dont require multiple accounts if you want to get somewhere in the game!
Yes they can. It's their game and i love it. It was right time to let old hardware go. People should upgrade their hardware a bit, it's not that hard.
You can't play these new so-called space games with your 5-year old PC or laptop. Dream on dude.
And yes there's several mmo's out there atm, just choose your game. Can i have your stuffs?
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dahlbeck
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:49:00 -
[897]
How will this affect Mac users running the classic client on less than stellar hardware. e.g. Mac Mini with Intel GMA 950. Eve runs acceptably now but it sounds like I won't be able to play at all after March. Can't afford to buy a new computer right now and upgrades are not an option with this hardware. |
AnkorWat
Pator Tech School
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Posted - 2009.01.16 10:54:00 -
[898]
Yes they can. It's their game and i love it. It was right time to let old hardware go. People should upgrade their hardware a bit, it's not that hard.
I think your character lack the economic touch really
If you study you might need to cancel subscription until you saved up enough money for a new comp that can take a year or two before you can do that with a student wallet but you probably come up with a fitting awnser for me |
Bibi
Basic Tritanium Mining North
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:15:00 -
[899]
Edited by: Bibi on 16/01/2009 11:21:09
Jojo Redana who said something about a 5 year old computer why the F-U-C-K do you assume that I or anyone else posting in here got a 5 year old computer???
you know its also about how much time you want to spend making isk in game to be able to do something fun in game later for those isk like pvp etc.
Now to cut isk making time you need to run multiple account thats just how it is. And if new client comes it will demand more computer power we dont need to discuss that.
So for the multi accounting people it will be more expensive if they want to continue running eve as good as they been able to do with classic client.
Also please dont say anything like: ohhh if you got multi accounts and didn't upgrade your comp-hardware before you probably don't have enough money to play eve at all thats just ******s speaking honestly
maybe I should start to buy isk like I KNOW alot of people do in this damn game no more honet multi account for isk and less money for ccp!!!
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Indec
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Posted - 2009.01.16 11:20:00 -
[900]
Edited by: Indec on 16/01/2009 11:24:28 Seriously, I can't understand all the whine. There are people not playing any mmporg due to they think the monthly fee would be to expensive, and yet you are paying for one, two or maybe even three or more subscriptions while complaining that you will not be able to afford an upgrade of your computer in 10 months.
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