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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 13 post(s)
Pace eGuerra Gallente Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.01.14 08:56:00 - [391] Call me nuts but... one thing that I've always wanted from EVE is a "Dark Mode" which basically turns off all 3D rendering stuff and leaves only the instruments, buttons, overview and other windows; ie. all 3D content is replaced with a black screen. You can get the effect now by opening and flattening the map and then sliding the map graphics out of view. Voila, EVE on a black screen; no 3D graphics. One can trade, fly and even PVP in this mode as long as one is familiar with flying on instrumentation only which, frankly, is what we mostly do, right? If you do drop SM2 support at the end of the year, heck even if you don't, I think we'd all appreciate a "Dark Mode". I could run EVE on my Dell Mini 9 then...
Carniflex Caldari Fallout Research Fallout Project	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:09:00 - [392] Edited by: Carniflex on 14/01/2009 09:13:29 Loss of shader model ver 1 would be not-too-bad. However loss of shader model 2 might yank the carpet out under many lower power laptop users. As recent as few year old laptops can't run shader model 3 (like ati x700 for example, that was relatively popular as 'cheap' separate gfx card back then). Overall I think that we would live. Perhaps indeed patch some hardware survey tool into EVE client and then ask on startup if player is willing to send data to CCP for hardware survey. That way it would be easier for you guys to do properly informed decision. Getting rid of 2 separate clients is overall good idea. Edit: An idea - perhaps you would be able to put out rather castrated option 'EVE ultralite' that would run on netbooks (ie rather low resolution, etc), something as simple as tick in some box in esc screen. It would be quite acceptable for that version to be restricted in optional game content aspect (ie not able to run walking in stations, etc).
Random Incarnate Australia and New Zealand Eve Corp FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:09:00 - [393] Edited by: Random Incarnate on 14/01/2009 09:09:39 Originally by: Pivalak Originally by: Erika Bronz I don't understand much of PC and PC language, but after a hard struggle (and some help) I've found out that my PC is an AMD Athlon Pocessor 1.25 GHz, 1 GB RAM. Graphic card is a RADEON 9200 SERIES. An ATI Radeon 9200 Series card provides DirectX 8.1 features if I'm not wrong. That means just ShaderModel 1.1 is supported, so you better upgrade your graphics card before March 10th or you won't be able to play Eve any more... Confirming this, just checked ATI's website.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Burning Horizons	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:10:00 - [394] Originally by: Ms Freeze Currently running in on my laptop which has a X700 ATI card, and on my Acer Aspire 150 netbook that I bought 2 weeks ago to enable me to switch training when I am on the move. Will it still run on an X700? I like the idea of 2 clients, one with lower requirements, but it would be kind of useless if you increase the minimum requirements in the same process imho. X700 supports Shader 2.0, so you could play after March but not after December based on their current timeline estimates.
Baudolino Gallente Royal Crimson Lancers	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:10:00 - [395] This might get drowned in all the other responses... CCP will probably announce an EVE mobile phone client ( or something to that effect) before they discontinue SM2. For some years now it has been CCPs intention to allow for the reading of mails, changing skills etc. using mobile phones for instance. I`ve played the game since it started and CCP has generally had a pretty good idea of where they want to go. Big seemingly negative changes has usually been compensated through other additions. Because of this, i truly believe that CCP will discontinue SM2 when nearly all primary computers can handle it and secondary computers used for chatting, mails and skill changing are no longer required. I might not always like what CCP does, but i have to admit that what they do generally seem to fit with a long term plan. I wouldn`t worry to much.
Shadowsword Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:11:00 - [396] It might be becuase english isn't my native language, but I don't understand this bit: Quote: 1. We can use the same assets as Premium. Admittedly people will most likely choose to run with textures that have lower resolution as well, but these will simply be downsampled (lower resolution mipmaps) from the existing Premium textures. Some textures will also be skipped entirely like, for instance, normal maps. This means less content for us to maintain as we get rid of all the classic content. Are you going to: A/ create lower-res textures that will sit on the hard drive, or.. B/ Make the client take existing high-res textures, use computer ressources to degrade them, then diplay them? That's what Age of Conan did, with the predictable result of making the cilent run worse with lower settings?
Internet Knight Amok.	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:15:00 - [397] FWIW, I would very much prefer you (CCP) to have at least 6 months of direct input from customers regarding the hardware they use. The best option for this is an optional "anonymously send my hardware information to CCP" feature. I bought my computer at the beginning of 2005 expecting it to last until the end of 2010. My Radeon X800XL only supports SM2, I'm not going to upgrade it any time soon. If you lose support for my hardware, you will lose my subscription (again). You happily regained my subscription by fixing most of the lag and a number of other specific bugs. Do you want to lose it again so soon?
n'kki Amarr Hedion University	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:29:00 - [398] (having not read 9 other pages of replies) i'm assuming the winter jump to SM3 is so "walking in stations" is possible with premium lite - ultimately, they've gotta move with the times to be providing the graphics needed to make WiS even halfway possible, but especially with all the fancy cambridge lighting stuff they have planned for it... personally looking forward to it all, but then with a GeForce 9800 GTX, i would be at least CCP have given you nearly a full year's notice of what they would like to do - its not set in stone, and if it does happen you at least cant say you've not had warning (unlike the ghost training thing!)
Hawk TT Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:29:00 - [399] Edited by: Hawk TT on 14/01/2009 09:30:13 Come on - ATI 3450 AGP video card w/ 256MB RAM(Shader Model 4.1) costs 40-45 USD and there are even newer models to be released soon! If you have a computer with only PCI slots, why don't you just send it to the museum? For 150 USD you could buy second hand machine capable of running SM 2.0 game and for 300 USD you could buy an ENTIRE NEW machine capable of running SM 4.0. And just because 2-3% of the player base could not / do not want to afford some upgrades (though playing with multiple accounts! on multiple machines), it doesn't mean that the others have to OBEY THEIR ULTRA-MINORITY-DICTATORSHIP! P.S. If you want to play EVE on your mobile phone or on the ATM 'round the corner - sorry, it is not gonna happen P.P.S. Can I have your stuff when you leave? ___________________________________ Science & Diplomacy Manager @ BECKS The OSS
Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:49:00 - [400] Why not make a client that could be run on an Amiga? Also, there is still the unknown total feature-set of Cosmos. Bringing the lower end, but similar, client up closer to the current main production client makes sense. But it also wouldn't be to difficult to create a simpler client using the existing assets that is scalable even more than the old client (run it on a phone!) but still has the capability to look as good. Even cooler would be to turn the EVE client into a modular OS-like interface to the game. Then players could help develop, i.e. graphic representations, that would run on their choice of hardware. Sandbox game? No, sandbox everything! Ok, got a bit carried away... All that said however, even backwards compatibility fanatics like Valve are leaving SM1.1 behind. Their 2007 releases supported it, however L4D has SM2 as the minimum, and likely Ep3 will be the same. Keep SM2 most definitely though. Integrated Graphics Chipsets with SM3 support have existed for almost 3 years, but many laptops are still being sold with SM2 chipsets, and SM2 mobos only phased out last year. Also it would be nifty to run EVE on my EeePC. "The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."

Aleyra Mel	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:52:00 - [401] Edited by: Aleyra Mel on 14/01/2009 09:55:31 You seem relly happy Hawk TT telling people to just go buy new PC, while you are ok with your uber duper machine. Point is that some people have other priorities in life and EVE is not one of the top. I for example only support SH2. No i dont think im gonna buy a new PC for just EVE. And no i wont give 300USD to buy a second hand almost crap PC jsut to be able to play a game. I am just playing EVE to pass my time, i dont care buying a new PC for playing a game, no im not that kind of desperate. Most likely i will go play WOW or somethign else that my computer can play pretty well. When i will decide to buy a PC i will buy something after i do a market research and im sure that this will worth its money. Not rush in to buy just something that will support SH3 just to play EVE. By the way CCPs numbers are only estimates-marketing numbers. Do you really think only 3-4% of playerbase dont have SH3? Do you really think that people in your alliance all have SH3? What if after next year your alliance goes down by 1/4 or 2/4? and you lose a couple fo friends? Just because CCP dramatically changes system requirements of its game for marketing purposes? Seems like next expansion will be the last for me, well i hope it will worth it, i'll enjoy EVE as long as i can play it, but no CCP you will not have me with you next year. And im sure you gonna lose many subscribers due to this. And no you cant have my stuff cause i dont freaking know you. My stuff will go to my friends. But CCP needs to remember something. Most people with lower ends systems are the old players that had a computer back then when EVE got first released. Its the few people that played EVE back then when EVE was almost unknown to the gaming industry. Its the people that gave their money and made EVE what is today. Those are the people that CCP screws right now. The people that without them EVE would have bankrupt years ago...
Eireen Harvenheit Amarr Kingmakers	Posted - 2009.01.14 09:55:00 - [402] Higher requirements = more eye candy. Even low end cards with SM 3+ will run Eve smoothly and these cost only few euros (30-40?) (just skip 2 visits in pub and you have your new "eve compatible" vga, it's not problem really). More eye-candy also means possibly more players so i personally think it's not move in wrong direction.
Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:04:00 - [403] I'd like to add that: If you have an old mobo with PCI/AGP... SM3/4 cards are still being made for these interfaces! PCI SM3 cards are $50ish AGP SM3 cards are $40ish Those who are lucky to have PCIe but outdated graphics (maybe you have been using integrated) PCIe SM3 cards are $20ish "The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
Meiyang Lee Gallente Azteca Transportation Unlimited Gunboat Diplomacy	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:06:00 - [404] Originally by: Eireen Harvenheit Higher requirements = more eye candy. Even low end cards with SM 3+ will run Eve smoothly and these cost only few euros (30-40?) (just skip 2 visits in pub and you have your new "eve compatible" vga, it's not problem really). More eye-candy also means possibly more players so i personally think it's not move in wrong direction. While that is true, the main problem I can see is for those players who travel a lot and use a netbook to change skills, these devices generally won't have much in terms of graphics capability and probably won't all have SM2.0 capable video chipsets.
Lai Dok	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:07:00 - [405] Edited by: Lai Dok on 14/01/2009 10:08:40 World economy situation forces me to hold any and all hardware upgrades untill further noticed. Didint you fellows in CCP just use similar reason to remove some aspects of game? So CCP please keep SM2 in. Or at least do a real user survey what people are really useing to play this game. I sure would be interested to see stats.
medecau Gallente Super Bock Preta	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:08:00 - [406] i bought a macbook just half a year ago and am not considering spending money on a new one any time soon. love eve, play for 3.5y, wouldnt like to be left out of eve. please.
Super Whopper I can Has Cheeseburger	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:14:00 - [407] It's possible to pick up really cheap second hand video cards that support SM2 and 3. 66xx, 73xx, 76xx, 16xx Series video cards come to mind and these are all SM3. I understand not everyone has the money or the inclination to buy a new card just to play a game on their PC but I do understand why CCP have to move forward from four years old coding to somewhat newer architecture. The other thing that is possible is people buying hardware for ISK. I don't know whether CCP would allow that as it would be outside of the direct sales channels and wouldn't be secure but that is one thing I might be willing to look into. Convert price into ISK will make it a win, win situation for all.
Super Whopper I can Has Cheeseburger	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:15:00 - [408] Originally by: medecau i bought a macbook just half a year ago and am not considering spending money on a new one any time soon. love eve, play for 3.5y, wouldnt like to be left out of eve. please. LOL, should have thought then before you jumped on the iSmug bandwagon. No sympathy for Apple u$ers. Enjoy begging $teve Job$ for that Copy & Paste function.
Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:16:00 - [409] Edited by: Xailia on 14/01/2009 10:16:59 Originally by: Meiyang Lee While that is true, the main problem I can see is for those players who travel a lot and use a netbook to change skills, these devices generally won't have much in terms of graphics capability and probably won't all have SM2.0 capable video chipsets. Even the original 'netbook' (EeePC 700) has an SM2 chipset. Most use GMA9xx chipsets.
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes B.L.A.C.K.	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:17:00 - [410] (Hasn't read most of the thread) I would also like to know why a "no-graphics" option hasn't been made, for large fleets?

Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:19:00 - [411] Even better than a no-graphics option would be an Elite-mode option.
Confuzer Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:21:00 - [412] I run 4 clients at once now, while sometimes playing WoW too blush. My concern is this won't be possible anymore. But I understand: you will only have to maintain on set of meshes instead of doing changes on both, which is ALOT of work.
Vaerah Vain	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:29:00 - [413] Quote: I don't know what people get upset about. Guys, eve still has quite low requirements if you compare them to other games, and how much hardware they eat. You gotta move on with new technology, and make use of it. The EVE player is not necessarily the avid and young "I E-MULE download the latest DX10 cracked game to see the shiny candy, I'll check another out tomorrow". Quite the opposite, EVE is a niche game and played by people after an harsh playstyle and "older times MMO" feeling (another good reason not to alienate the niche: niche products are not able to lose a sizable percentage of player base without repercussions). Older times MMO for older players, players who have something else to think about besides keeping multiple rigs up to the latest standard. Quote: I can't see why a company would hold back on 95% of their costumers just to satisfy the other 5%. If you were in charge of a company making that decission, you'd just say "good bye 5%" :) Good move CCP. To those who play on 10 year old pc's: Get Pacman :) The 5% are players subscribed since years and providing CCP for reliable income on multiple accounts and unlikely to quit anytime soon. Can't insure that the remaining 95% have the same attributes. Actually, the newer the player the higher the risk he's just bored of his current "theme park" newer generation pointless MMO and giving EVE a look, on a trial or a young account. He won't have multiple accounts as well. So what, once the multi-account reliable income old player had to quit and the new player decided EVE is not what he really liked? I find it'd be more acceptable to make a game version that just won't do anything when the pre-requisites are not present than one that downright refuses to start. IE to mine, change skills, lab search etc. I can't care the less if I get white untextured graphics. I DO care instead if I can't play my pilot because I have to use the same computer for my miner, to dig a top notch super shader graphics asteroid for hours.
Kuranta Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:30:00 - [414] I'm running EVE on an old machine with a Nvidia TI4400, SM 1.3. Getting a SM 2.0 capable card wouldn't be much of a problem I gues, but please do not remove SM 2.0. Or push the removal to end of 2010.
Elune Ferret Gallente Valley Forge Wrath.	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:32:00 - [415] So I voice my opinions again: I run Eve classic everywhere as Premium is not able to run on anything crossing my hands yet, well I've seen a few laptops, but they were mostly top of the line and not anywhere near something I could seize more permantly. I've been looking to upgrade my Private gaming rig for a while now, this isn't due to the fact that it's unable to support premium, but rather the fact that I'm getting older and my 19" screen is too small to support the 11680x1024 resolution in amanner where I can sit back and watch. I now need to actually sit close to tht screen focussing on the details. And yes I know I could do with lower resolutions, but when I'm outside the stations I do like to se all that pretty grafics in that little tiny square of free space I have. 90% of my screen is takken up by various information windows in a relative casual overwiev state, when actually manaing my info, that little square is blocked up with most of the other overwiev stuff. So upgrading my "gaming rig" is rather closely as I won't accept nothing but a Slaptop (15-20 kgs) with something having minimum 21" screen and resolution of my 1680X1024 (I NEED THAT). I do multies yes, and that runs on various easy to get by systems (mostly T43 Thinkpads) but there I tend to have everything on a run idle state. Lessening the need for the 1680x1024 resolution, seems 1024x800 is just fine as all my info is gathering on a diffrent screen. I forgot to mention that My Dell Inspiron 8600 (Gaming rig) has a FX5200 card or something like it, so SM2 should be runable on it. Now as I've gotten a bit more room, I've been considering getting a desktop too, figure I can fit it in somewhere and well the pricetags are a 10th of the moveable, so what if I can't go to LAN parties or come to fanfest unless someone provides machinery on site? I can live with that I guess, I've heard there something called sunligth??? When my old laptop is too old to maintain it's functions of course I'll need to replace it which will currently cost me let's see, 35.000 DKR converted to british pund? be 3.500 ú or something in the area of 7.000 $, assuming I can negotiate a discount, less then 3.000ú is ridicoulas, Dell won't do it.. That's a bit of savings so as usual I'll need to plan those cycles ahead. Finance crises and personnal stuff, drained the cuffers untimely, which is why I'm considering a cheap Desktop now (affortable, and a need well atleast 3 runnable machines to be replaced these days) I'd love to see as proposed a few times a feature that collects my Rig configurations each time I log in, every time. Hell put it in the EULA. Take my stats, do some calculations, compare to the user base. Optimaize the cliet for the user base. I wonder why this isn't something that's there already, all the info is available, only the user resists to share the info, which will help CCP to make plans and strategies to better utulize information like this. Well sure not everybody playing EVE, plays EVE exclusively. Neither do I but I've learned over the years that CCP actually isn't ONLY in this for the money, but they actually mean it when they say they want to make the ame better, and that it's not the profit that drives them, and this is the ONLY reason I offer any and all information they want or don't know they want. Course I KNOW they'll find a way for that to benefit me personally. In summary: (somethings I didn't get into depth with) 1. Keep the pretties coming. 2. Kill the lag monster. I mean can't you make it extinct or somethign? 3. Collect the intell (Rig configurations) with client feature, this forum thread is not used by all aspects of us. 4. Keep us in the herd. Make sure we can log in to swicth skills atleast. -> This wireframe client or in station client we've requested ever since I took a subscribtion. Now is a the time to make it. It won't matter to the new players, but we veterans will love it, some swear by it. Make a premium 'n a mapless Still waiting for ingame voice, with voice mods.
ShardowRhino Caldari Legion 0f The Damned	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:33:00 - [416] Edited by: ShardowRhino on 14/01/2009 10:35:38 my crusty 6600gt which is about 4 years old now can run the premium client. last time i saw it online for sale it was $30 U.S. and that had to be well over 6months ago. I'm sure if you can afford a connection that allows you to play eve and able to sub then you should be able to start saving up a few bucks to get a cheap card. if your using onboard graphics on a desktop, well i wont even get into how wrong that is... it sucks if you have to upgrade to play a game. I've done it before and it sucked. Then the game just went nowhere and that sucked even more. If EVE is going to compete with newer games it has to get out of the 80s first. even if the graphics right now are okay and aren't really required if you think about it. OF COURSE CCP could have given players more of a heads up then this. something closer to the lines of the winter 09 change. we have most of a year for everyone to consider things and start saving up a buck here and there in anticipation. throwing it out there even if it is lowend graphics, you designed the game to run that so you should have given players a bigger warning then a few months. so fail to ccp on that. fail on ancient hardware support holding eve back.
Bernard Voigt	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:36:00 - [417] First things first: I enjoy the fact that EVE does run on systems that the "FOTM first person shooter" addict would call obsolete. I strongly hope CCP will continue to just do that little more work needed to let people who don't buy a new gaming PC every year continue playing. Secondly: I spend 100Ç to be able to play EVE (buying Win XP to run it on my IMac). Now I read this newsarticle about discontinueing the classic client. Okay, I can understand that CCP tries to minimize cost by concentrating their efforts on "state of the art" PCs, but what will be next in costcutting? Discontinueing the Linux + OS X compatibility? I would really like to play EVE(PREMIUM) on my native OS in the near future... Thirdly: I'd suggest CCP puts some manhours in developing a own client that is pruned down (no undocking and no fancy schmancy 3d gfx) to let all those customers who just log in to change a skill, read/answer EVEmail (I'm NOT talking about being able to do market PVP from the workplace, Sesselpuper!) continue to do so, from every mobile device they choose. Forthly (?): respect to the DEF team, for bringing this into the public in such an early stage. I shurely like to be informed on the way my fav game will be developing in the next year at an early stage of developing! EOT Dizclamer: all Typos in this message are property of Voight NanotecÖ
Anvalor Gallente Germania Inc. D0GMA	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:41:00 - [418] First i thought it is cool that CCP can focus on premium only but then i just realized my laptop can not handle that. This means i have to run 2 clients on my pc after march or i have to close one account of my 2. I guess i just have to wait and test if 2 clients will run good on my pc or not. The problem is i pvp alot and if eve runs sloppy with 2 clients on the same pc i will not use 2 clients. btw, i still have 2 Amiga 500 but one is only working.
pipvac Sacred Templars Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:55:00 - [419] I would love to know the opportunity cost of this 'upgrade'. In other words, what did CCP choose not to do (or consider less of a priority) then being able to offer 'Premium Lite' graphics. Frankly, I can think of a very long list of must have enhancements, which I would prefer development time to be spent on than this.
Sky Marshal IMpAct Corp Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2009.01.14 10:58:00 - [420] Edited by: Sky Marshal on 14/01/2009 11:04:28 Originally by: Banni Vinda According to the latest Steam Hardware Survey, the distibution of graphics cards looks something like this: DirectX 8 GPUs and below 14.10% I'd guess that Steam users are amongst the most leading-edge when it comes to keeping their hardware up-to-date, so I'm pretty confident EVE's userbase statistics wouldn't exceed these. [...] I'd be very interested to find out how Zulupark came up with his numbers, since they seem significantly different from the Steam results. /This /Thread I can't believe CCP when they say 5% of SM 1.0 user, it is a lie, not less... Well, it is true that Steam has some old games who don't require updated computers, but it is like EVE Classic. I am not impressed by this dev blog. CCP make only bad moves since the economic crash begin really apparent : - Removal of the Ghost Skill Training (but not Ghost ISK Making, CCP understood very well that Skill Points are more valuable, same if they appears incoherent) - Removal of the 30/90 days GTC. Well, 30 days returns, based on the 60 days, so more expensive anyway. - Pretending that QR is a new add-on - Etc... And after that, they claimed that they are not really concerned by the crash. Of course... This change sound like they want reduce their expenses, by reducing their staff. The deletion of the 2.0 support is a proof, as it is the most wrong estimation I ever see, certainly based of the incoming Windows 7 who will require new hardware. Like Vista who some guys said it will be in all PCs and will make everyone upgrade their computer. We all know the facts. As this move is now in a dev blog, the EVE tradition said that CCP never make a roll back of his decisions. It is more true when it is written by Zulupark. Nerf General Shield Resist by 8.3% instead of 7.1% for Armor despite comments, I still remember this... Well... We will see what will happen for EVE in the future, but I am definitively not optimistic. They can give all excuses they want, same if the deletion of the 1.0 can sound understoodable, the 2.0 is not less than : Stupid. I am more impressed to see that there are so many moro... players who still defend CCP choices in this period of economic instability.



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