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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:35:00 -
[631]
 Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP, I'm reading your replies and posts and what not, and all I can say is, are you going to introduce some sort of sub-capital ship that performs the same way as the fitting bay does on capitals?
The problem I'm seeing here is, for example, if you get stuck on one side of the wormhole, and really need to swap your fittings out, or to replace damaged ones, you'll be out of luck without a Carrier sitting behind you.
Orca works that way. It has 400 000 m3 ship hangar. Assuming you are willing to drag Orca out there, it has mass of 2.5 battleships afterall. Or althauler with small tower and ship maint array and week of fuel.
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Arnos Von
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:40:00 -
[632]
The concept is certainly interesting, and something I'm looking forwards to exploring (pun, as is, intended). Props to all at CCP for continuing to find innovative ways to interact with the EVE universe.
I did, however, think of several things that were ready exploitations of the system. It seems others have noticed the key ones:
1) A POS is ridiculously overpowered since the mechanics of taking one down is based on K space, not W. Things like reinforced mode makes the wormhole timers a boost to POS and mass limits makes large scale sieges improbable. Logistics of keeping it fueled will likely NOT be a problem (next point).
2) The wormhole collapse mechanism will be very easy to game in a 2 way state. Your POS needs fuel or you wind up with a gate to enemy space? Collapse the tunnel until you get one pointing to friendly 0.0 or low sec. Even worse any large alliance can simply cordon off pockets of W space by collapsing tunnels so they always point to deep W-W links or W-K only to their sov territory. I'm assuming this will be fairly simple since "prime" W space should have the fewest links to make initially finding it hard.
3) Even if you don't want to lock down the tunnel totally you can just destabilize it by sending through enough mass to be sure that no sizable attack fleet can ever come through to attack you.
4) Next all you do is pump in the building array, churn out any cap ships you want in your own W pocket, then forcibly realign the gates until you can drop your fleet into enemy space if you like.
On short reflection the best solution to stop fleets in a bottle sort of tactics might be to have a "here there be dragons" mentality to the space -- large NPC cap fleets that would occasionally remove POS in the regions, or space instabilities that would destroy anything in the region (with a bit of forewarning to get out).
Locking off pockets of high value W space by forced realignment will be harder to combat. I've seen a number of suggestions about altering the way mass limits are calculated, but perhaps it could be tied to a system destruction mechanism. Perhaps each wormhole opening/ closing in a W system has a small chance of triggering a destructive shock (countdown to certain destruction, then all gates randomized in and out, all ships logged off in system are thrown out of system by shock wave [prevents easy relockdown, idea here being you want to make people have a chance of rediscovering the prime system]). It could be a cumulative mechanic, so if an alliance kept trying to realign wormholes in a system, the chance of triggering the system collapse would also increase. Prime W systems could also be the most unstable, to counteract the fact they'll likely have the fewest links.
tl;dr? POS and wormhole realignment make W space easy to lock down and stagnate. Solution: blowing everything to bits and randomizing all links from time to time at least in prime systems to be sure it stays fresh.
Looking forwards to seeing it all in march in one form or another. 
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:44:00 -
[633]
Originally by: Kessiaan
We still haven't heard anything from CCP about what, if anything, they're going to do to keep people from locking these new systems down. From everything we've heard so far it sounds like it'll be impossible for even the biggest alliance to control more than a few as the shifting nature of the wormholes requires each system have a dedicated staff that lives there, which is good, and will let small corps be able to go on long-term, possibly permanent expeditions, also good. But there are a LOT of small corps who will try to jump on the bandwagon and I guarantee almost all these systems will be 'claimed' by various entities within a couple of months, which is bad. And this paragraph is turning into a wall of text so I'm going to press enter twice now.
I think the solution is to either make POS's temporary, or make them much weaker so a deathstar in W-space isn't totally immune to assault. I'm sure with all the interest we're seeing in this we'll get a dev response as soon as they figure out how to tweak the system so the emergent mechanics are in-line with their vision. 
I do not see deathstar in there as a problem. If you really want the system you can bring in enough pilots regardless of that death star to make system unusable for the opposition. Assuming you actually are out there not just trying to 'claim' it. The guys in POS can sit in there all they want with the pos gunners, if you have space superiority and are better skilled then them having a POS is moot point. Afterall if you have space superiority nothing will prevent you also erecting one.
As far as all of them being claimed withing few months - I find it highly unlikely. Will most of them have 1 to 3 people in them .. perhaps ? Will you be able to fight for the system if you want to ? Most certainly. You can just ignore systems with too heavy population for your tastes. There is not enough well enough organized corporations out there to claim all the systems in convincing way. The bottom line is - this is EVE - if you want something you will have to take it from the cold dead hands of previous owner. The new space will be ideal in that sense, as it WILL be hard for organized big corporations to bring their weight bearing in multiple systems at once.
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Space Wanderer
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:48:00 -
[634]
Edited by: Space Wanderer on 27/01/2009 10:48:58
Being a long-time explorer I overall like the expansion. However I also got some concerns:
1) From what I can read the new type of exploration probes, with their low fitting requirements, will heavily hit the role of covops and T1 exploration frigates. Will the scan time cycle length still be relevant for the "new" exploration probes like the "old" exploration probes, so that covop pilots will still have a good reason to use a covop?
2) Even assuming that the role of covops is not affected, What about the role of the "old" exploration probes? Will the "new" exploration probes have have some drawback to offset their advantages? I don't think that the inability to find ships is enough a drawback. Every explorer will always choose the "new" exploration probes over the "old" ones, unless more drawbacks are added.
3) I have not clearly understood the role of the new "combat probes". Currently, to find ships you can either use the less powerful, faster recon probes, or the more powerful, slower racial probes. What's the point of the "combat probes"?
4) While I approve of making exploration less boring, I do NOT approve of just making it easier. Current exploration is boring, but to be carried out effectively it requires intelligence and planning (besides decent skills). If the new scan mechanic is less boring but STILL requires intelligence and planning, go for it. But if it removes the need for intelligence and planning, I suggest to keep things as they are.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:48:00 -
[635]
Originally by: Arnos Von
1) A POS is ridiculously overpowered since the mechanics of taking one down is based on K space, not W. Things like reinforced mode makes the wormhole timers a boost to POS and mass limits makes large scale sieges improbable. Logistics of keeping it fueled will likely NOT be a problem (next point).
I agree that it will be hard to kill POS out there. However I fail to see why would you need to kill that POS out there ? It's not claiming sov and at best is well armed safespot. Advantage you can also have as easily. If you actually live out there then you already have local space superiority, if you do not live out there then you are asking to make it easier to 'claim' systems in the classical zerozero sense - ie removing competitors infrastructure with overhelming force.
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Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:49:00 -
[636]
Originally by: Carniflex
Originally by: Aeo IV
CCP, I'm reading your replies and posts and what not, and all I can say is, are you going to introduce some sort of sub-capital ship that performs the same way as the fitting bay does on capitals?
The problem I'm seeing here is, for example, if you get stuck on one side of the wormhole, and really need to swap your fittings out, or to replace damaged ones, you'll be out of luck without a Carrier sitting behind you.
Orca works that way. It has 400 000 m3 ship hangar. Assuming you are willing to drag Orca out there, it has mass of 2.5 battleships afterall. Or althauler with small tower and ship maint array and week of fuel.
One other question I'd like answered is if the mass values will be changed for some ships, and whether or not the 'mass value' also includes the mass of your fittings and cargo.
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Kessiaan
Minmatar
Army of One
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:50:00 -
[637]
I like the above idea about destructive shock waves. Ideally they should have a fair amount of forewarning though (maybe 2-3 days) so people have enough time to pack up their things and move on.
Roving, semi-mobile, long-term expeditions operating out of a small POS and/or an Orca is awesome. Alliances turning W-space into a lucrative, if somewhat logistically annoying, outpost is not.
Some other ideas I had for easy deathstar ner***e. In W-Space...
* POS shields are much less effective. Perhaps capped at the level of a small POS, regardless of how big the POS actually. Would make them vulnerable to small BS fleets.
* It costs 10x and much PG and CPU to anchor something outside the POS bubble. Makes POS guns less effective.
* Presence of a POS destablizes the system, making wormhole links much more likely to point into other wormhole systems. Most of the time there would be no wormhole back to k space in a w system with a POS in it. This would make logistics for a permanent POS much more difficult.
I would say no reinforced mode, but that just hurts the small guys, as big alliances would have the staff to defend a POS 23/7 and it wouldn't really hurt them.
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Bakari Eno
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:54:00 -
[638]
Originally by: Gnulpie
Edited by: Gnulpie on 27/01/2009 08:45:44
About 2-way wormholes and 'gaming the system'
Introduce 'effective affecting shipmass'; young wormholes will be more stable towards shipmasses, old wormholes will be more unstable towards the same shipmasses.
Introduce maximum mass per single jump for each wormhole.
Introduce time variancy of this maximum mass per single jump; young wormholes will allow only light ships to pass, old wormholes will allow huge and bulky ships to pass.
Well as im to lazy to try to quote the other thing im thinking (forum noob)(Prepares for the flames) im a big fan of a hybrid system of this crossed with the mechnic that as the mass limit of the wormhole is lowered (nearing minimum limit for ships to pass aka. shuttles, pods, etc. etc.). The lower the w/h mass the faster the timer should accelerate to compensate to allow the hole to close in a timely but not excessivly fast manner(thus adding another hurdle to w/h cycling). Another way this could be approached is by having the mass count be the timer in and of itself, where as the w/h ages the mass that can pass through is actually smaller and smaller the older it gets allowing fresh new w/h's to be easily scanned down while older and smaller holes being harder and ultimatly less rewarding to scan for(also nice segway into current wormhole theory's about age/size/power). Also in this second mechanic it would possibly allow the player trying to cycle or close the worm hole the slip through the hole in the desired direction of travel while still closing the hole faster(tho im thinking that the w/h's would respawn once every hour or so as yet another way to prevent people from rapidly changing the end point of the hole spawn). |
Red 7
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:58:00 -
[639]
Edited by: Red 7 on 27/01/2009 11:00:15
Originally by: Kessiaan
* Presence of a POS destablizes the system, making wormhole links much more likely to point into other wormhole systems. Most of the time there would be no wormhole back to k space in a w system with a POS in it. This would make logistics for a permanent POS much more difficult.
This would be counter-productive - as it essentially makes the POS system a safe harbour and thereby safer. Additionally over time you would end up with a mechanism that allows players to create entry-point hubs to/from K-Space.
Over an even longer period of time you would lock down W-Space.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.01.27 10:59:00 -
[640]
Originally by: Kessiaan
I would say no reinforced mode, but that just hurts the small guys, as big alliances would have the staff to defend a POS 23/7 and it wouldn't really hurt them.
I have to agree to that one. Reinforced mode is there for a reason to negate timezone advantage.
However I'm not that keen on other ideas about putting towers at disadvantage. Mainly bcos I do not see the POS as a problem in there as both sides can erect one as easily and if willing to put the logistical effort into it both sides can bring in enough ships to harass enemy tower enough. I especially don't like idea about artificially different system behaviour if towers are present. That out of the way if system has any effects on ships or towers that are present regardless of towers or ships being present then why not. Artificial stuff is just kinda immersion breaking.
Something like no natural shield regen on ships and towers or whatever is ok as long as everyone is getting shafted the same way. I mean both ships and towers as they are afterall using same technology.
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Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Zzz
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:03:00 -
[641]
Originally by: Arnos Von
4) Next all you do is pump in the building array, churn out any cap ships you want in your own W pocket, then forcibly realign the gates until you can drop your fleet into enemy space if you like.
Bear in mind that you need sov. to build supercaps, which won't be possible in w-space. And what makes you think that it will be easy to move large volumes of minerals & fuel into your space while simultaneously keeping out all enemies?
---
Can't afford that BPO? Look here.
20:1 mineral compression
The EVE f@h team |
LaserX
Caldari
Legion of Steel Lions
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:08:00 -
[642]
Since we cannot confirm what the brand new NPC type will be like, there should be possibility that some local residents are friendly toward us and we may be able to dock in their station for a high docking fee, if we have to refit our ships or something.
Oh and ... am I the only one who think the current 0.0 should have been developed in a way like the wormhole system? |
Kessiaan
Minmatar
Army of One
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:11:00 -
[643]
I understand that POS's can't claim sov and can't directly prevent another entity from erecting their own.
My main concern with a well-entrenched POS is that short of sieging it until it runs out of gas there's no feasible way to remove it and thus leaves open the options of a defeated (but not podded) defensive force holing up in their POS and waiting for the attackers to get bored and leave, and a defensive force building a huge fleet from stockpiled minerals in total safety to eject the attacking force. It doesn't matter if they can't field all their ships at once, they can just spam BS's until the enemy POS is dead and everyone is gone. While the defenders are sitting in their POS they could run harassment against the attacking force, preventing them from being able to harvest any decent amount of ice / minerals, thus preventing from establishing themselves the same way.
Even if it can't claim sov and do any of the stuff related to it, a POS can still exert considerable influence over the system it's located in. It shouldn't be invulnerable just because it's hard to reach and has some time/ISK invested in it. That's my concern. |
Red 7
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:11:00 -
[644]
Edited by: Red 7 on 27/01/2009 11:13:11
I don't see a problem with POS's generally and I don't see why they should act any differently than now. You can't gain sov with them - and by the time you can the sov mechanics will have changed.
A fortified POS puts a greater strain on your logistics - which means they're unlikely to appear in the short term until you've built up sufficient resources. In the same time period others will be building capital ships in W-Space. If you really wanted to make fortified POS's more painful - then just increase the fuel requirements of combat related POS modules on the tower to strain the logistics more. Not too disimilar to the current mechanic where sov reduces the fuel requirements.
With delayed local and random exit points in system for WH's - nobody will be having an easy time tracking down incoming ships that can cloak. Depending of course on how the new combat probes operate. |
Mioelnir
Minmatar
Meltd0wn
Imperial Republic Of the North
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:14:00 -
[645]
Edited by: Mioelnir on 27/01/2009 11:14:07
Originally by: LaserX
Since we cannot confirm what the brand new NPC type will be like, there should be possibility that some local residents are friendly toward us and we may be able to dock in their station for a high docking fee, if we have to refit our ships or something.
Oh and ... am I the only one who think the current 0.0 should have been developed in a way like the wormhole system?
There will be no stations. |
egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:17:00 -
[646]
Will there be giant space whales behind the wormholes? |
Ralitge boyter
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:19:00 -
[647]
I wonder how many minutes it will be before the first POS is up in wormspace.
I am also looking forward to the exploration improvements and the posibility to build T3 stuff, but I have one question that instantly poped in my head.
Wormholes have a certain mass they can handle before they collapse, so I find a wormhole and take 3 corp members trough for some nice ratting in a far away universe. Then an other corp finds the same hole, and shoves through 3 ships as well figuring they don't have to come back. Now there is 6 of us in the system and we get a long just fine. But we are all stuck there, even though 3 of us where planning on going back home after our cargo hold is full... that would sort of suck would it not?
Does this mean that we will have to defend a wormhole we found in Jita, to make usre our corp mates can come back trough? And if so does this mean that we can be assigned as hole guards making it possible to shoot and kill anyone tryng to move trough the hole?
Will there be a anchorable device at the far end of the hole cloaking the hole at it's origin point?
Lets say I am stuck in wormspace for what ever reason I find a new hole... how do I know I am not going to end up in the middle of a 0.0 battle ground? Can I see where the wormhole leads? Can players assign names to the systems they find via the wormholes? What about the planets can we name thouse? Will there be planets? What about the new NPC's out there, will they all be hostile or will there be pigs in space as well? More belts that sounds like a wormhole that should be able to handle at least a few hulks and then a industrial several times before the hulks have to go back to prevent the hole from closing on them, but what is a band of pirates jumps trough... It cannot be that hard to figure out where a industrial is jumping to, which leads me to think that if I see one jump to and from several times I just scan the hole calculate the ammount of mass needed to colapse it and jump in and out a few times making it close as I jump to wormspace the last time, then I have a bunch of free hulks for the killing as they have no way out anymore.
I expect CCP has thought about that but I also expect several people to invent wonderful ways of abusing this mechanic.  |
Darth Felin
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:20:00 -
[648]
I share the view of many players in this thread. Those systems will be claimed very fast and if a claiming group pay at least minimal attention there are no way to destroy faction large tower in proper deathstar configuration. I see only one way to prevent it - you can not anchor POS in new systems. |
Red 7
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:28:00 -
[649]
Edited by: Red 7 on 27/01/2009 11:28:52
Originally by: Ralitge boyter
Wormholes have a certain mass they can handle before they collapse, so I find a wormhole and take 3 corp members trough for some nice ratting in a far away universe. Then an other corp finds the same hole, and shoves through 3 ships as well figuring they don't have to come back. Now there is 6 of us in the system and we get a long just fine. But we are all stuck there, even though 3 of us where planning on going back home after our cargo hold is full... that would sort of suck would it not?
It's the old risk/reward. Hope for the best - plan for the worst.
Originally by: Ralitge boyter
Does this mean that we will have to defend a wormhole we found in Jita, to make usre our corp mates can come back trough? And if so does this mean that we can be assigned as hole guards making it possible to shoot and kill anyone tryng to move trough the hole?
Will there be a anchorable device at the far end of the hole cloaking the hole at it's origin point?
If you shoot people in empire - the system sec status will determine any concord response. Normal rules apply.
They've not mentioned anything anchorable - but from what they have said - the wormhole itself won't move once it's up. The next one, if it's even in the same system, will probably be in a different location and will probably take you somewhere else in K-Space or W-Space.
Originally by: Ralitge boyter
Lets say I am stuck in wormspace for what ever reason I find a new hole... how do I know I am not going to end up in the middle of a 0.0 battle ground? Can I see where the wormhole leads? Can players assign names to the systems they find via the wormholes? What about the planets can we name thouse? Will there be planets? What about the new NPC's out there, will they all be hostile or will there be pigs in space as well? More belts that sounds like a wormhole that should be able to handle at least a few hulks and then a industrial several times before the hulks have to go back to prevent the hole from closing on them, but what is a band of pirates jumps trough... It cannot be that hard to figure out where a industrial is jumping to, which leads me to think that if I see one jump to and from several times I just scan the hole calculate the ammount of mass needed to colapse it and jump in and out a few times making it close as I jump to wormspace the last time, then I have a bunch of free hulks for the killing as they have no way out anymore.
You can see where it goes by using it :)
You can assign your own names to the bookmarks - I doubt you can perm name the system/planets.
And 0.0 are killing fields if you're not prepared - risk/reward again.
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Saluss
Caldari
Infernal Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:32:00 -
[650]
Not sure if this has been brought up already but its worth a mention , If capitals can enter wormholes and all wormhole systems have a route back to known space is there anything to prevent cap ships turning up in highsec systems ?
Originally by: CCP Greyscale
consciously deciding not to join a corp is pretty much deciding that you don't want to have fun
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Amandrace
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:35:00 -
[651]
I glazed through the last 22 pages just reading dev posts, but when I get the chance, I'll read the rest.
At any rate, just adding my feelings. This is the first time in 2 years of playing eve that I'm geniunely excited for an expansion. This gives me a whole new purpose to play the game, to finally at last explore, in the truest sense, with all the danger and adventure that go with it.
Basically, I love you developers! 
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Bielbo
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:36:00 -
[652]
Ok so i believe no one has touched the subject at hand:
Monular ships are possibly upto 5 sections to make a total ship, therefore we can assume that whoever goes into the W-Space and returns safely may be able to pick up a modular section on the way.
Further to my assumption i like to think finding 5 modules to build a ship would allow me to go wack to W-Space and have greater chances of survival and success!
Theses ships are reversed engineered and to that end they naturally come from W-Space so what better way to survive the new space than to use modular ships from W-Space!
In fact it hasnt been confirmed that modular carrier ships have been designed but if they were you could design it to how you see fit if you decide to go to W-Space with it! |
Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:37:00 -
[653]
Originally by: Darth Felin
I share the view of many players in this thread. Those systems will be claimed very fast and if a claiming group pay at least minimal attention there are no way to destroy faction large tower in proper deathstar configuration. I see only one way to prevent it - you can not anchor POS in new systems.
Well, I was also thinking along those lines. But a 'proper' deathstar configuration would leave little to no room for the things you would actually want. A place to refit/repair your ships, produce ammo, and possibly ships.
Then you have the problem of actually getting enough ice to the darned thing, that's the key to getting the POS down, just keep intercepting the fuel supply.
Then there is another thought. Remember that it was mentioned that Wormhole NPCs don't function like regular NPCs... What if they roam the system at will and can scan down individual pilots or... POSes ;-) While it might initially seem like a good idea to get some fast T3 resources, it does play havoc with your ammo. Unlimited supply of NPCs, limited supply of ammo...
While large/dedicated alliances might claim a few Wormhole systems, it's going to take a while. As mentioned there are over 2500 new, undocumented systems. Even reaching them all is going to take an unprecedented amount of pilots, keeping track of all those systems is going to be a logistic nightmare. And let's not forget that they aren't alone out there, and warfare is going to change drastically. Supply, repair and exploration ships are going to be very important, but are also very fragile. All the alliance resource aimed at Wormhole space is not being deployed in 0.0 space, thus leaving them wide open to other Alliances that don't take the Wormhole risks... |
glassmanipulator
Lucian Alliance
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:38:00 -
[654]
Just the whole sound of this is kinda bad...
imo they should leave the scanning mechanics ALONE and just introduce a wormhole launcher and/or wormhole probe(s). Sounds like WAY too much change to me. Why not add "wormholes" to multispec results, and let people go from there or something. Christ.. this is bad.
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:38:00 -
[655]
Edited by: Carniflex on 27/01/2009 11:44:14
Originally by: Kessiaan
I understand that POS's can't claim sov and can't directly prevent another entity from erecting their own.
My main concern with a well-entrenched POS is that short of sieging it until it runs out of gas there's no feasible way to remove it and thus leaves open the options of a defeated (but not podded) defensive force holing up in their POS and waiting for the attackers to get bored and leave, and a defensive force building a huge fleet from stockpiled minerals in total safety to eject the attacking force. It doesn't matter if they can't field all their ships at once, they can just spam BS's until the enemy POS is dead and everyone is gone. While the defenders are sitting in their POS they could run harassment against the attacking force, preventing them from being able to harvest any decent amount of ice / minerals, thus preventing from establishing themselves the same way.
Even if it can't claim sov and do any of the stuff related to it, a POS can still exert considerable influence over the system it's located in. It shouldn't be invulnerable just because it's hard to reach and has some time/ISK invested in it. That's my concern.
And that is why I like them. That is advantageous to smaller entities that want to lay claim to the system. They can run guerilla operation and kick bigger corp nuts one at a time if they have balls where the balls should be. While still having a location to hole up should the bigger entity bring it's mass to bear without having to rely on cloaks.
Keep in mind that those systems are not meant to be easily claimed. POS being hard to remove most certainly will make it harder for stronger entities to gain full control of system without going thru unreasonably big commitment of getting all those guys needed to remove the tower in system, on at the same time and in right ships for the job. While at the same time anyone can waltz in 3 AM in the morning and erect a tower if he is willing to go thru the logistical trouble of keeping it fueled.
So at the end of day - want to claim a system ? No problem, but you have actually to be present in that system to prevent stuff you dont want to see happening there. Missed tower going up ? Tough luck you have now neighbours. Well armed and grinning.
Keep in mind that all you have to do is to pod em all out from the system and no way in hell find they that system again in time for next fuel shipment. You just have to catch their pos alt when it is trying to find wormhole out to bring new guys in or even better, collapse that wormhole after him should he go to peek thru the found wormhole to tell his guys where to go to get back into system. |
ori thermos
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:39:00 -
[656]
So all worm holes leed to null sec, well my interest in the whole thing just went out the door. |
Red 7
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:40:00 -
[657]
From what I've read so far - T3 ships are cruiser class only at the mo.
There's not much info about the mechanics of how W-Space will contribute to T3 - but I would guess it would be BP based - so you'd need to reverse-engineer possible before you could build. The building requirements might also need T3 based components before you could build them - much as today with T2 construction. |
Eldstrom
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:45:00 -
[658]
--Warning slightly rambling post--
There seems to be lots of worrying that all the big 0.0 alliance are have going to gobbled up all the best systems really quick in this launch, particularly from Rex who's been most vocal about this.
most the talk has been about dyspro moons given there are claimed to be only 64 of the beasts in known space with static gateways. now you looking at having we are having another 2500+ systems with non static links, no real identification given talk of making systems bigger at fanfest they are likely to have quite a few moons. I think any 0.0 alliance is going to require a healthy dose of luck to find those goldmine systems.
That's assuming the moons have any known minerals.
then again ccp have said they created x number of systems, but they haven't said they are going to let us get at them all at once, given that T3 cruisers are going the only available T3 ships it's quite possible that CCP could only let us lose on the more common/less profitable systems to start with.
the best systems may never link to k-space and may even be deep W-space requiring traversing multiple W-W links to get to k-space. certainly if I was CCP I'd make damn some systems require deep W-W travel.
I think the fears that large alliances monopolising are just that fears, and if quite possible unfounded it really depends alot on how depth or flat W-space will be and thats something I don't expect CCP to tell that will be something CCP will want use to find out.
Having said that we don't know what else CCP has up it's sleeves if they've moved most resources to the dungeon system the whom is to say if the systems will have a static value for all we know CCP may have introduced a system where the more taken/killed in W-system the less likely a new resources will appear in that system, making it impossible to set up in a system and farm for months and years. however it won't stop smaller corps setting up home in a W-system and making a living as long as they don't take/kill to much or requiring any group that is going to try and farm a w-system for everything it has move to a slash and burn method where they have to move w-system every month or so.
I hope some if not all of these thought have already been thought of by CCP or prehaps they have other better ones, if not feel free in pick up any you want and running with them.
Eld
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Elisabeth Dakar
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:49:00 -
[659]
Originally by: egegergergsdgedgege
Will there be giant space whales behind the wormholes?
That would be so awesome! Maybe we can get different color whales or different sizes. Or there could be a new skill for whale taming.
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Xennith
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.01.27 11:49:00 -
[660]
Originally by: ori thermos
So all worm holes leed to null sec, well my interest in the whole thing just went out the door.
risk/reward is pretty vital. if empire huggers can get the same rewards in the new systems, but still have concord protection, the entire risk verses reward equation gets skewed. |
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