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The great big WORMHOLES AND SCANNING megathread of fun and win

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 26 post(s)
Cassandra Elan	Posted - 2009.02.13 00:03:00 - [421] Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of the updated scanning system twofold? 1. Make exploration more accessible. 2. Lay the groundwork for a system that eventually allows for the removal of the local channel (at least for current occupant intel). Really wishing I could test this right now, I can launch the probes but no Astro V so no scanning.
Brixer Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.02.13 00:21:00 - [422] Edited by: Brixer on 13/02/2009 00:21:46 Originally by: Cassandra Elan Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of the updated scanning system twofold? 1. Make exploration more accessible. 2. Lay the groundwork for a system that eventually allows for the removal of the local channel (at least for current occupant intel). Really wishing I could test this right now, I can launch the probes but no Astro V so no scanning. You don't need a new probing system to remove local. In fact CCP is creating 2500 new systems to lay the groundwork for probing out cloaked afk pilots. I think you read to much between the lines. Seriously, I'm not really sure why CCP is modifying the probing system. My best guess would be that CCP want user skill to be more important than luck and ingame skills. Also, the new system with general probes is FAR more userfriendly as you don't have to fit cargo-expanders on your cov-ops.
Fumen	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:05:00 - [423] Issue with recovery of probes: IF I recall the devblog correctly, wasn't it stated that probes should be recovered if the controlling ship disconnects either by a log out or a session change? I attempted both a log out as well as a session change this evening just to check on this. Neither time did I reconnect to a probe. The session change I performed was a dock and undock. I left the probe outside of the station I was near both times. After the undock, I could see the probe, but I couldn't access it either through right clicks or via the scanner interface. I did have some sort of graphical/display error after undocking with the probe in system. It's a bit late for me, but I can redo this again later and get some screen shots and run any necessary logs. Anyone else experiencing this? Personally, reusing probes is very handy, conserves resources, and doesn't eat up a huge amount of cargo space in a potentially small ship. Otherwise, the old system of expiring probes and carrying a large supply is no issue to me.
Cassandra Elan	Posted - 2009.02.13 06:13:00 - [424] Edited by: Cassandra Elan on 13/02/2009 06:15:59 Originally by: Brixer Edited by: Brixer on 13/02/2009 00:21:46 Originally by: Cassandra Elan Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the whole point of the updated scanning system twofold? 1. Make exploration more accessible. 2. Lay the groundwork for a system that eventually allows for the removal of the local channel (at least for current occupant intel). Really wishing I could test this right now, I can launch the probes but no Astro V so no scanning. You don't need a new probing system to remove local. In fact CCP is creating 2500 new systems to lay the groundwork for probing out cloaked afk pilots. I think you read to much between the lines. Seriously, I'm not really sure why CCP is modifying the probing system. My best guess would be that CCP want user skill to be more important than luck and ingame skills. Also, the new system with general probes is FAR more userfriendly as you don't have to fit cargo-expanders on your cov-ops. I don't think I'm reading too much between the lines at all. They've already listed this as something that they've wanted to do here: http://myeve.eve-online.com/updates/plannedfeat.asp Walsingham Revisiting intelligence-gathering tools of all kinds, including Local, the directional scanner, probes, the system map and so on, with the aim of providing a coherent, integrated intel suite which allows skilled players to quickly gather and share useful intelligence, while also adding the possibility of counter-intelligence tools Oh, and in order to remove local you do in fact need a different scanning system. 23 seconds till location of target meant local would never go away.
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.13 08:53:00 - [425] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: DeepBlue moving that 32 au probe closer and farer away didnt make a really big difference. sig% dist 0.46 - 17.51au 0.71 - 9.00au You almost doubled the strength by moving it 8.5 au and you say it didn't make a big difference? yes, but plz read all the results.
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.13 09:51:00 - [426] Daily question: Are wormholes un-collapsed yet? ----- Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.
Brixer Dai Dai Hai	Posted - 2009.02.13 09:58:00 - [427] It seems all wormholes are removed from Sisi atm.
Space Wanderer	Posted - 2009.02.13 10:20:00 - [428] Originally by: CCP Greyscale I'm not sure I agree that harder sites have to take a whole lot longer to scan. Their rarity is already governed by their spawn chance; long discovery times select by masochism which I'm not sure is a positive thing. While I do agree that selecting by scan is probably not a positive thing, there must be a serious selection between those who have lots skills/investemnts, and the "sunday probers". With the old system, everybody can find a site, but a person with proper skills/investments can find a hard-to-find site on average much faster than a low-skilled pilot. If you remove chance-based and time as variables that distinguish between good and lousy probers, the only way i can see to select among them is to make some sites impossible to find for probers without high skills/investments. Anybody got different ideas on the matter?
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.13 10:23:00 - [429] feature request: - Scan Result filter -- Additional filter options -- Filters: Wormholes, Gravimetric, Radar, Magnetometric, Ladar, Unknown
Miss Moonwych Formedian Shadows	Posted - 2009.02.13 10:48:00 - [430] Edited by: Miss Moonwych on 13/02/2009 10:51:12 Originally by: DeepBlue moving that 32 au probe closer and farer away didnt make a really big difference. sig% dist 0.46 - 17.51au 0.71 - 15.90au 0.76 - 4.08au 0.71 - 9.00au doesnt make much sense, and yes its allways the same signature :-) ________________ dropped a 32 au core probe at the entry gate to a guristas military complex. results: sig strength: 1.56% distance: 5.7 au //update reducing this one probe at entry gate to .25 au gives following result: sig strenght: 100% distance: 1970 meters // my ship AND the probe are at the entry gate to this plex! then i dropped another 3 probes, each at 8 au.. one of them stayed at the entry gate. results: sig strenght: 3.81 distance: 6.589 m This may or may not answer your question but I found out a few things about the reported distances. In the game there are two kinds of distances being reported (which is quite confusing): A signature that has been detected by only one probe will show the sig strength detected by that probe. The distance is the estimated distance to that probe. When you scan multiple times that distance will change. So right now deviation is implemented but only with single probe detections. When a signature is detected by two probes it will show the avg sig strength of both probes (times a reduction due to some kind of penalty). However the distance is now the exact distance between your ship and the middle of the circle (so basicly the average position of the combined result). Keep in mind that the distance to your ship is not refreshed when you warp so it will only be updated if you close and reopen the scanner window. I havent thouroughly checked for more than 2 probes but it seems its essentially the same as with 2 probes. What I think Hoshi was refering to was the fact that when you place a probe closer to the target its sig strength will increase. Hope it helps . Regards, M.M. PS. A probe can only detect a signature withing its range (say 64 au) however due to single probe deviation the reported distance can be outside its range. When you see this you know its nonsense because the target has to lie within the probe's range.

ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.02.13 12:26:00 - [431] i did finally figure it out after hours of fiddling with it. CCP have made it more complicated while trying to simplify it The main problem is maniuplating it on the map u get objects in space and other probes not doing what the one u want. I think the underlying system is ok but UI needs major work before its ready to go live
Col Callahan Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2009.02.13 13:03:00 - [432] Originally by: DeepBlue feature request: - Scan Result filter -- Additional filter options -- Filters: Wormholes, Gravimetric, Radar, Magnetometric, Ladar, Unknown ^This please, and also do we have a pushing date for the next sis update. thxs much.^
Dreshna	Posted - 2009.02.13 14:28:00 - [433] With the loss of obervator probes finding deep space safes will be so highly improbably that it is near impossible.
Mr Krosis The humble Crew	Posted - 2009.02.13 14:48:00 - [434] Originally by: Dreshna With the loss of obervator probes finding deep space safes will be so highly improbably that it is near impossible. The current long range probes on sisi have a maximum size of 1024 AU. It will be harder to MAKE deep safes under the new system but finding them shouldn't change a whole lot. The default zoom range in solar system view might make probe placement a pain.
Dreshna	Posted - 2009.02.13 15:31:00 - [435] Originally by: Mr Krosis Originally by: Dreshna With the loss of obervator probes finding deep space safes will be so highly improbably that it is near impossible. The current long range probes on sisi have a maximum size of 1024 AU. It will be harder to MAKE deep safes under the new system but finding them shouldn't change a whole lot. The default zoom range in solar system view might make probe placement a pain. How easy is it to get 4 hits on something that far out so that you can warp to it though?
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2009.02.13 15:44:00 - [436] Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 20:31:42 Originally by: Wardo21 Thinking outside the box here, but would it be possible to setup deep safespots with the probe system as it stands today? I can't probe right now because I've only got astrometrics 4. But the thought came to mind that I could set a probe out in BFE, way off the plane, far away from any other system object, then scan down that probe with some others until I could warp to that location. Would that be possible, or am I just imagining things? I'm not even sure probes can be probed for, so this may be a moot question. probing for probes will not be possible. and with this i wont be able to smartbomb enemy probes :( Someone can cofirm if it is possible to detect probes with the directional scanner? I tried it but the directional scanner is not working for me (astro 5 for that too?).
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.13 17:48:00 - [437] Originally by: Dreshna How easy is it to get 4 hits on something that far out so that you can warp to it though? Very easy actually. A 500 au safe shouldn't take more than maybe 3-4 min longer to crack at most than a close safe.
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.13 18:05:00 - [438] Originally by: DeepBlue Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: DeepBlue moving that 32 au probe closer and farer away didnt make a really big difference. sig% dist 0.46 - 17.51au 0.71 - 9.00au You almost doubled the strength by moving it 8.5 au and you say it didn't make a big difference? yes, but plz read all the results. What I am trying to say is that you said a site with a strength of 0.54% or less would be impossible to find. But without stating at what range to the probe you get this 0.54% you give no useful information. If Site A has 0.54% at 0au and Site B has 0.54% at 31au and the max with multiple 0.25 au probes on site A is 50% then the max for site B would be 150% (displayed as 100%). That's how much difference it makes in the end. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Cyberus Caldari Final Destination. BrightSpark Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.13 18:40:00 - [439] Originally by: Col Callahan Edited by: Col Callahan on 12/02/2009 00:13:08 To the power of ^8 So is there any reason why this should not hit 100%. I mean I know the trig that is involved in GPS locating and this is over kill, 8 different points of over lapping intersection, any way. this should be a bug and should already be on a list for fixing. just my little report. Well nice picture. I had today same result. Even if you soround the signature it will no give 100% hit. After moving probes alot i have managed get them so close if poseble to signature and i could only incrase it to 78.6% but probes was letteraly placed on signature it self. Nothing more then an bug to me, but though it was mentioned by CCP already that its need some ballansing. So guess we just w8.
Cyberus Caldari Final Destination. BrightSpark Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.13 18:44:00 - [440] Originally by: DeepBlue feature request: - Scan Result filter -- Additional filter options -- Filters: Wormholes, Gravimetric, Radar, Magnetometric, Ladar, Unknown Defenetly this! Also it will be nice if we could discrase our scaning range to 0.1 instead of 0.25 in case if devs not planing change this terreble boxes on probes, though it will not incrase in scaning strenth just to simplyfy placement of probes because the boxes will discrase as well.

Sendinal Cortere	Posted - 2009.02.13 19:49:00 - [441] Looks like scanning is fixed in the patch so whenever SiSi is back up we can go to town. didn't see mention on w-space being accessible or not but we'll know SoonÖ
Mes Ren No Trademark	Posted - 2009.02.13 20:03:00 - [442] Originally by: Dreshna Originally by: Mr Krosis Originally by: Dreshna With the loss of obervator probes finding deep space safes will be so highly improbably that it is near impossible. The current long range probes on sisi have a maximum size of 1024 AU. It will be harder to MAKE deep safes under the new system but finding them shouldn't change a whole lot. The default zoom range in solar system view might make probe placement a pain. How easy is it to get 4 hits on something that far out so that you can warp to it though? I probed out a 142au deep safe without any problems (other than it's a royal pain in the a$$ trying to work with probes that are that big). ________________________ No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --
COMMANDER KATHRYN Gallente DEATHFUNK Doctrine.	Posted - 2009.02.13 20:34:00 - [443] Why not just give probes a reload timer like crystals have that way the stacking issue wont matter becuase loading will be very quick
Viktor Del'Grande	Posted - 2009.02.13 21:15:00 - [444] Edited by: Viktor Del''Grande on 13/02/2009 21:15:18 Today i made some test at sisi, to see if there is a connection between signal strength and distance shown at the scan result. I used a core probe at 32 AU settings. Always the same cosmic signature. I can not see a connection between strength/distance. Maybe this data is helpful for Hoshi Each line is from the same spot but only 10 scans per position. (Hope this is clear). My OpenOffice 3.0 File
lobster2b	Posted - 2009.02.13 21:45:00 - [445] Confirming: lvl 5 needed bug is ironed out, you can now scan with lesser skill. Problem: Recover active probes is broken, probes warp to you, moves to your ship but dont get scooped up automaticly, and unable to scoop them manually.
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.13 21:59:00 - [446] WormHoles are back. but they are closed.
Sendinal Cortere	Posted - 2009.02.13 22:04:00 - [447] CCP you guys are such teases. I just want to probe your holes and slide my Orca in and out a couple of times. I'll still respect you.
Nadecook	Posted - 2009.02.13 22:27:00 - [448] Edited by: Nadecook on 13/02/2009 22:28:23 Originally by: Sendinal Cortere CCP you guys are such teases. I just want to probe your holes and slide my Orca in and out a couple of times. I'll still respect you. lol request: comment tab, where one can comment the signature so one can give it a comment and know if it's still the same, because during scanning i missed the original signature i was looking for about 3 times and always found a lot of new anomalies, which is very confusing for scanning newbies. furthermore, if it got scanned down 100%, it can be handled like bookmarks. give it a comment, drag it out and no need to drop probes again because it is always shown on the sys scanner, and marked if scanned again while a second is close nearby. so they can be easily distinguished even if you haven't found it yourself. so scanning can be done by several ppl, just share the bm's and scan the sys down! Like x (gurista outpost - warp to possible) (0.5 AU away) ( ) <- another anomaly somewhere here hope you understand what i ment and no one has already proposed such a thing (to lazy to read, must scan! :D)
ZMasterz Caldari Pothouse Cartel IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2009.02.13 22:36:00 - [449] Edited by: ZMasterz on 13/02/2009 22:37:07 Scanning of some Sigs still broken ... http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/1782/20090213222856dd5.jpg That¦s with Triang 4, Pinpointing 4 I found a site in that system earlier, with just 4 probes .. but this one, impossible. I tried moving the probes even closer to each other, strength just goes down from there, moving them away from each other decreases strength ... :(
Nadecook	Posted - 2009.02.13 22:50:00 - [450] Edited by: Nadecook on 13/02/2009 22:52:44 Just had a similar thing but with worse skills. Narrowed it down to 1 AU radius, but never could find it. I work with 1 large radius probe to cover the whole anomaly area and triangulate it further down with 3 others. But still i lost it every time i changed the 3 down to 0.5 and moved them even around, but never got it again. Switch back to 1.0 and bing there it was again, 0.5 and gone it was. edit: feature request - Shift select all and change all probes range with one click, instead of every single one.



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