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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 26 post(s)
StickyFingerz Dark Materials	Posted - 2009.02.12 10:53:00 - [391] Originally by: Msgerbs Why do we seriously need 4 probes? TRIangulation requires 3 probes, not 4. Not a complaint rather than question, but I'm sure I'll be flamed either way. i found a tiny plex 2 nights ago on sisi with 3 probes, (and had 100% and could warp to it). not sure what all this 4 probe guff is about.
ollobrains2 Gallente New Eve Order Holdings	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:02:00 - [392] ive spent 3 hours on this today and ccp u have completley stuffed this up tbh. Ive got like 15 different amol and sigs in a qiute small system and the probes just dont work, got 8 of em linedu p theres no indication of where the sigs are once u get a fairly distant result. Simpliy it or risk making it useless
DeTox MinRohim Madhatters Inc. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:15:00 - [393] Edited by: DeTox MinRohim on 12/02/2009 11:15:57 Originally by: StickyFingerz Originally by: Msgerbs Why do we seriously need 4 probes? TRIangulation requires 3 probes, not 4. Not a complaint rather than question, but I'm sure I'll be flamed either way. i found a tiny plex 2 nights ago on sisi with 3 probes, (and had 100% and could warp to it). not sure what all this 4 probe guff is about. Keep trying... you'll see. Now if we could have the devs to give us some basic info like what are they doing, planning, working on, etc. Just a little update. You know... the communication stuff people usually talk about. It's been quite silent lately. ------ This sig space is Read-only ! omgalink - Online Skillsheet
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:18:00 - [394] Originally by: StickyFingerz Originally by: Msgerbs Why do we seriously need 4 probes? TRIangulation requires 3 probes, not 4. Not a complaint rather than question, but I'm sure I'll be flamed either way. i found a tiny plex 2 nights ago on sisi with 3 probes, (and had 100% and could warp to it). not sure what all this 4 probe guff is about. If all 3 probes are in the same plane which is also the plane the target is in the 2 results it should normally give is collapsed into 1 as stated by devs earlier in this thread. Originally by: Miss Moonwych Hoshi: based on your own findings would you agree that the best probe setup with this new system would be a tiny Tetrahedron? (and not for example an Octahedron or Cube) I need to do more testing before I can comment on that but it seems likely yes. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Tharrn Amarr Epitoth Fleetyards Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:23:00 - [395] Originally by: StickyFingerz Originally by: Msgerbs Why do we seriously need 4 probes? TRIangulation requires 3 probes, not 4. Not a complaint rather than question, but I'm sure I'll be flamed either way. i found a tiny plex 2 nights ago on sisi with 3 probes, (and had 100% and could warp to it). not sure what all this 4 probe guff is about. Your tiny plex was probably a Cosmic Anomaly and not a Cosmic Signature. ----- Let's agree to respect each others views, no matter how wrong yours may be.
Neddy Fox Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:39:00 - [396] Originally by: CCP Casqade No. We will not give you skills. This defect will be resolved in a future update to Singularity. Please keep this thread on topic. Obsolete replies will be deleted to keep this thread clean and on topic. The "known issues" thread states as workaround : Train Astrometrics to 5. It doesn't say it will be fixed, or is under investigation. That's 12 days where we CAN'T HELP YOU TESTING ! Can this bug PLEASE be fixed ASAP, =r give us this skill ? ---- [PXIN Recruiter] PXIN Recruitement thread
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 11:40:00 - [397]
Moonaru Izu Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:02:00 - [398] Edited by: Moonaru Izu on 12/02/2009 12:02:29 Originally by: Marlenus {snip}I missed this when you posted it, sad to say. But the deadspace result is interesting. If it's intended that deadspace not affect this probing system, it will be good news for my mission-probing allies in Suddenly Ninjas. Testing deadspace probing will be my next project. Well, the jury is in. I just ran a test with a buddy of mine on Sisi. He was in a T1 cruiser so the next thing up from frigate. First I had him sit at a planet. Probed him down to 100% with four combat probes in just 4 minutes. So that proved I could probe down cruisers succesfully. Then he accepted a mission and sat at the first gate that lead into the mission. This is regarded as deadspace. I tried to probe him down and.... I found him again! I needed 4 probes and 4 to 5 minutes, which was mostly because he was in a different vertical plane so you have to fiddle a bit more with the probes. So this stuff works in deadsapce aswell. Then, just to be sure, he went into the actual mission area and I tried to probe him down again. This was also sucesfull and I even shaved off another minute. conclusion of all of this: Currently it is possible to find cruiser-hull ships in deadspace/mission areas with combat probes and within a reasonable time. So far frigates and drones cannot be found, either in or outside deadspace, because of there signature strength being too low and hence you cannot reach a 100% result. Now...does this make ship probing easier? yes and no. "Yes" because the time to find someone CAN be much quicker as there is only player skill involved atm. "No" because in a Tranq situation there will be many ships in a system. As the long range scan results do NOT give you a shiptype as a result it will be a turkey shoot. You WILL need skills and a hit with the directional scanner to pinpoint the general direction of the target ship. And here lies a problem.... As the directional scanner only goes out to 14AU, chances are that a LOT of mission runner cannot be probed out. If there location is further away as 14AU from the prober, the prober has no clue which scan result to pinpoint as he has no general direction. In low-populated systems this might not be as much of a problem. But what about the big mission hubs like Motsu? That will almost be mission impossible for the prober.
Rivqua Caldari Omega Wing R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:08:00 - [399] Originally by: Moonaru Izu Edited by: Moonaru Izu on 12/02/2009 12:02:29 Originally by: Marlenus {snip}I missed this when you posted it, sad to say. But the deadspace result is interesting. If it's intended that deadspace not affect this probing system, it will be good news for my mission-probing allies in Suddenly Ninjas. Testing deadspace probing will be my next project. Well, the jury is in. I just ran a test with a buddy of mine on Sisi. He was in a T1 cruiser so the next thing up from frigate. First I had him sit at a planet. Probed him down to 100% with four combat probes in just 4 minutes. So that proved I could probe down cruisers succesfully. Then he accepted a mission and sat at the first gate that lead into the mission. This is regarded as deadspace. I tried to probe him down and.... I found him again! I needed 4 probes and 4 to 5 minutes, which was mostly because he was in a different vertical plane so you have to fiddle a bit more with the probes. So this stuff works in deadsapce aswell. Then, just to be sure, he went into the actual mission area and I tried to probe him down again. This was also sucesfull and I even shaved off another minute. conclusion of all of this: Currently it is possible to find cruiser-hull ships in deadspace/mission areas with combat probes and within a reasonable time. So far frigates and drones cannot be found, either in or outside deadspace, because of there signature strength being too low and hence you cannot reach a 100% result. Now...does this make ship probing easier? yes and no. "Yes" because the time to find someone CAN be much quicker as there is only player skill involved atm. "No" because in a Tranq situation there will be many ships in a system. As the long range scan results do NOT give you a shiptype as a result it will be a turkey shoot. You WILL need skills and a hit with the directional scanner to pinpoint the general direction of the target ship. And here lies a problem.... As the directional scanner only goes out to 14AU, chances are that a LOT of mission runner cannot be probed out. If there location is further away as 14AU from the prober, the prober has no clue which scan result to pinpoint as he has no general direction. In low-populated systems this might not be as much of a problem. But what about the big mission hubs like Motsu? That will almost be mission impossible for the prober. Depends what you are probing in Motsu. If you are probing for any ship like TEARS do, it will be awesomely easy, drop it, start probing, focus on a location, and go go go. If you are probing after a specific war target, you will likely (like today) watch him warp off from the station, and you will know in what direction he warped, then it will be a tourkey shoot, but only on that specific trajectory, so you've excluded like 98% of the rest of the system, again, good chances. /Riv
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:11:00 - [400] Originally by: Moonaru Izu conclusion of all of this: Currently it is possible to find cruiser-hull ships in deadspace/mission areas with combat probes and within a reasonable time. So far frigates and drones cannot be found, either in or outside deadspace, because of there signature strength being too low and hence you cannot reach a 100% result. Now...does this make ship probing easier? yes and no. "Yes" because the time to find someone CAN be much quicker as there is only player skill involved atm. im sorry, but 4-5 mins is NOT reasonable fast. i do this in 23 secs right now. i can confirm, thats its not possible to find frigs/pods/drones it its current state. for the NOT knowing what you scan part. it should simpy show up what you scan, even at a 2% sig strenght. the onboard directional scanner knows what it is scanning, why shouldnt a probe find out? the system doesnt have to be crowded, its enough if there are a few frigs shuttles dropped out in space, those will make you scan each ship signature until you have the right one. to avoid this, you could pin down the target with the directional scanner, to have an idea where your target ship is, but this would cost you another additional 20 secs.

Moonaru Izu Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:21:00 - [401] Originally by: DeepBlue {snip} im sorry, but 4-5 mins is NOT reasonable fast. i do this in 23 secs right now. I agree with you partly, because the 23 sec is only viable If you have a bookmark within 4AU of the targets mission. Those bookmarks had to be made first so this is an optimization of the current scan system (which won't work with the new system, I 'll give you that) all in all, for finding mission runners 4 to 5 minutes is not bad, especially if you do not have a bookmark within 4 AU. Then this new system is faster. For safespot busting I fully agree with you. This will be undoable considering the time you need for a 100% result for a target that is aware he is being probed out and keeps jumping around.
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 12:29:00 - [402] Originally by: Moonaru Izu Originally by: DeepBlue {snip} im sorry, but 4-5 mins is NOT reasonable fast. i do this in 23 secs right now. I agree with you partly, because the 23 sec is only viable If you have a bookmark within 4AU of the targets mission. Those bookmarks had to be made first so this is an optimization of the current scan system (which won't work with the new system, I 'll give you that) all in all, for finding mission runners 4 to 5 minutes is not bad, especially if you do not have a bookmark within 4 AU. Then this new system is faster. For safespot busting I fully agree with you. This will be undoable considering the time you need for a 100% result for a target that is aware he is being probed out and keeps jumping around. im not that used to scan for mission runners. im more specialized in hunting 0.0 farmers wich log off atm you enter system. from entering system until to warpscramble him you have 2 mins and no second more. with that new system for combat probing, those farmers will just get there safe space :(
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 13:05:00 - [403] Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 13:16:19 about sig strenghts: if a base sig strenght has .54% or less, i am not able to get a 100% result for this - max i get for that is 99.54. whats a base sig strength? - drop one core probe, set it to 32 au and then you get results what you have in system. everything above .54% im able to scan, everything lower then this i cant. any other person could confirm this? //update 5 sigs at .54- i wasnt able to get the 6th i managed to get.
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.12 13:31:00 - [404] Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 13:25:48 Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 13:16:19 about sig strenghts: if a base sig strenght has .54% or less, i am not able to get a 100% result for this - max i get for that is 99.54. whats a base sig strength? - drop one core probe, set it to 32 au and then you get results what you have in system. everything above .54% im able to scan, everything lower then this i cant. any other person could confirm this? //update 5 sigs at .54- i wasnt able to get the 6th i managed to get, though it was 0.55. This should depend on the placement of the 32au probe in relation to the target or to be exact the range. Are we talking about placing the 32au probe right on top of the target or 30 au away? ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Herr Wilkus	Posted - 2009.02.12 13:32:00 - [405] I agree with REPO here. PVP requires hunters find targets quickly because currently 'hiding' is quite foolproof (ie ss-cloak). Targets that are caught are usually 'unaware' - haven't seen WT's in local yet, or are simply not moving fast enough. Making scanning more time consuming makes successful PVP less likely as it gives targets much time to notice the red WT's in local and bolt. CCP's reply to REPO's concern was kind of disheartening. Essentially he said, "We figure that PVP scanning is already nearly impossible vs an alert target, so making it MORE difficult doesn't really matter." I suppose the 'sleepy' targets need a chance too, huh? Making scanning more interactive and challenging isn't bad per se, but some additional abilities should be granted as well. Ideally, a minor change to local (players do not appear unless they speak up), would make scanning an integral part of PVP - requiring the hunters to scan to locate their prey (rather than just rapidly jumping systems looking for red flags), and the prey will have to become quite familiar with their D. Scan button, - or be suprised. But since that likely will never happen , perhaps making cloaked ships scannable would help compensate for the added difficulty. It removes the 'ss-cloak' get out of jail free button, and forces paranoid ratters and WT's to either dock up (where they can be camped) or log off (can no longer turn on TV and watch local until hostile threats leave). But turning Recon scanning from a relatively simple 2 minute process into a 4 or 5 minute labor intensive process, is not an improvement for people who want to actually find skittish targets. Otherwise the changes seem to be yet another 'add content for PVE, nerf PVP patch.' TL'DR? I see - 1. Yay wormholes! Cant wait to rat those new red Sleeper X's and get rich! 2. Lets double or triple ship scan time process and make it less accurate! On the upside, is it true that Wormholes are essentially 0.0 space? (IE, no Concord protection against aggression?) That would be awesome - as PVEers looking for tasty T3 treats (reward) might have their wormhole scanned by PVP oriented hostiles (risk). Or barring that, when a wormhole collapses it forces you to find a new exit wormhole - that exit could lead to lowsec or nullsec? Interesting.
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 13:44:00 - [406] Originally by: Hoshi Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 13:25:48 Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 13:16:19 about sig strenghts: if a base sig strenght has .54% or less, i am not able to get a 100% result for this - max i get for that is 99.54. whats a base sig strength? - drop one core probe, set it to 32 au and then you get results what you have in system. everything above .54% im able to scan, everything lower then this i cant. any other person could confirm this? //update 5 sigs at .54- i wasnt able to get the 6th i managed to get, though it was 0.55. This should depend on the placement of the 32au probe in relation to the target or to be exact the range. Are we talking about placing the 32au probe right on top of the target or 30 au away? moving that 32 au probe closer and farer away didnt make a really big difference. sig% dist 0.46 - 17.51au 0.71 - 15.90au 0.76 - 4.08au 0.71 - 9.00au doesnt make much sense, and yes its allways the same signature :-) ________________ dropped a 32 au core probe at the entry gate to a guristas military complex. results: sig strength: 1.56% distance: 5.7 au my ship AND the probe are at the entry gate to this plex!
Morscerta Gallente Living in the Fridge	Posted - 2009.02.12 14:57:00 - [407] I am getting often akward resulst. I was using 4 core probes trying to pinpoint a site. All probes set to 8au. During the scan I got results saying. The site was at 24au distance. Did anybody experience this themselves? BTW. It would be great to have a button or selector which will let you select the scan strength of all of the active probes instead of having to select each probe.
Dedalus77 Junkyard Dogs	Posted - 2009.02.12 16:07:00 - [408] Originally by: Moonaru Izu Edited by: Moonaru Izu on 12/02/2009 12:02:29 Originally by: Marlenus {snip}I missed this when you posted it, sad to say. But the deadspace result is interesting. If it's intended that deadspace not affect this probing system, it will be good news for my mission-probing allies in Suddenly Ninjas. Testing deadspace probing will be my next project. Well, the jury is in. Then, just to be sure, he went into the actual mission area and I tried to probe him down again. This was also sucesfull and I even shaved off another minute. conclusion of all of this: Currently it is possible to find cruiser-hull ships in deadspace/mission areas with combat probes and within a reasonable time. This is excellent news, for me at least. Huge thanks to both Moonaru and Marlenus (as well as everyone else) for testing out the new system!
Ellefaine	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:02:00 - [409] Originally by: DeepBlue Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 13:25:48 Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 13:16:19 about sig strenghts: if a base sig strenght has .54% or less, i am not able to get a 100% result for this - max i get for that is 99.54. whats a base sig strength? - drop one core probe, set it to 32 au and then you get results what you have in system. everything above .54% im able to scan, everything lower then this i cant. any other person could confirm this? //update 5 sigs at .54- i wasnt able to get the 6th i managed to get, though it was 0.55. I am seeing the same results. I tracked down a .14% and could never get it up beyond 33% Then tried tracking down a few .3s. Never got up above 70%ish.
Mes Ren No Trademark	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:19:00 - [410] Originally by: Kayn Otar RE: impossible to find ships I find this possibility exciting. Small ships really aren't a threat to any POS, and the idea of having small gangs of them roaming around in enemy territory is pretty cool. Whole new opportunities for recon and ninja-anything. Even more exciting is the possibility of getting a cyno in behind enemy lines. Suddenly, the big alliances have to protect ALL their space, not just the edges. Which means they won't be able to control as much territory, which means more room for smaller alliances. Overall, I think having "invisible" ships will make null-sec much more interesting, just maybe not in the way that some players wish. The ships aren't invisible, you just can't scan it down. IF they want to be invisible, they use a cloak. What prevents cynn'ing behind enemy lines has nothing to do with being able to be scanned - nothing prevents people from warping to the cyno. Come to think of it, have you ever been to 0.0? ________________________ No Trademark -- Mes Ren, Mes Builder -- -- CEO --

hendo001 Caldari White Star Ltd Mjolnir Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:44:00 - [411] Edited by: hendo001 on 12/02/2009 17:47:14 Edited by: hendo001 on 12/02/2009 17:46:41 Edited by: hendo001 on 12/02/2009 17:46:17 Edited by: hendo001 on 12/02/2009 17:45:28 OK from time to time i keep getting a bug like this. Before i relogged after clearing my cashe and launching a probe it had cleared up but it came back and now I cant get rid of it. Take a look at the image to seewhat i mean Linkage
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:51:00 - [412] Originally by: hendo001 Edited by: hendo001 on 12/02/2009 17:47:28 OK from time to time i keep getting a bug like this. Before i relogged after clearing my cashe and launching a probe it had cleared up but it came back and now I cant get rid of it. Take a look at the image to seewhat i mean Linkage resizing the window helps here. also resize the stuff inside this window (probes/results/archive)
hendo001 Caldari White Star Ltd Mjolnir Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:51:00 - [413] i just fixed my bug by moving/resizing the window alot
Wardo21	Posted - 2009.02.12 17:52:00 - [414] Originally by: hendo001 i just fixed my bug by moving/resizing the window alot I will give that a try.
Sendinal Cortere	Posted - 2009.02.12 19:28:00 - [415] They have stated that all those skills/rigs for decreasing scan time might be rejiggered to provide a boost to strength which, I'm guessing, would shave a ton of the problems/time scanners are currently having pinpointing some sites. As for finding missionrunners and safespots I can't say. Not my area. I'm hoping it helps out but the new system seems harsh no matter what they do. Hope they fix the Astro V bug soon so I can test some things out. sigh
Wardo21	Posted - 2009.02.12 20:04:00 - [416] Thinking outside the box here, but would it be possible to setup deep safespots with the probe system as it stands today? I can't probe right now because I've only got astrometrics 4. But the thought came to mind that I could set a probe out in BFE, way off the plane, far away from any other system object, then scan down that probe with some others until I could warp to that location. Would that be possible, or am I just imagining things? I'm not even sure probes can be probed for, so this may be a moot question.
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.12 20:31:00 - [417] Edited by: DeepBlue on 12/02/2009 20:31:42 Originally by: Wardo21 Thinking outside the box here, but would it be possible to setup deep safespots with the probe system as it stands today? I can't probe right now because I've only got astrometrics 4. But the thought came to mind that I could set a probe out in BFE, way off the plane, far away from any other system object, then scan down that probe with some others until I could warp to that location. Would that be possible, or am I just imagining things? I'm not even sure probes can be probed for, so this may be a moot question. probing for probes will not be possible. and with this i wont be able to smartbomb enemy probes :(
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.12 20:51:00 - [418] Originally by: DeepBlue moving that 32 au probe closer and farer away didnt make a really big difference. sig% dist 0.46 - 17.51au 0.71 - 9.00au You almost doubled the strength by moving it 8.5 au and you say it didn't make a big difference? ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Greenbolt Minmatar The Suicide Kings True Reign	Posted - 2009.02.12 22:51:00 - [419] Originally by: Herr Wilkus On the upside, is it true that Wormholes are essentially 0.0 space? (IE, no Concord protection against aggression?) That would be awesome - as PVEers looking for tasty T3 treats (reward) might have their wormhole scanned by PVP oriented hostiles (risk). Or barring that, when a wormhole collapses it forces you to find a new exit wormhole - that exit could lead to lowsec or nullsec? Interesting. Everything has pointed to all wormhole space being tasty 0.0. some being very tasty and some being less tasty. (Kinda like the true 0.0 sec status determining things I woudl guess). That means exploiting it puts you at risk of being hunted. Any smart group milking a wormhole pocket better keep an eye on local..maybe a scout near the known entrence and maybe scanning to make sure no unknown entrences in etc..or they will get rude awakenings as that 2-3 man pirate group comes in to a tasty batch of pve fitted ships. --------------------------------------------------- Scordite -Who was it that said that flying minmatar is kinda like going down a flight of stairs on an office chair while firing an uzi?
Milla Jovo	Posted - 2009.02.13 00:01:00 - [420] My scanning wndow is all messed up link Resizing helps sometimes but not right now. scene 2 is off and running the lite client.



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