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The great big WORMHOLES AND SCANNING megathread of fun and win

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 26 post(s)
Rexthor Hammerfists Rage of Inferno Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:32:00 - [61] From my POV. I like the difficulty of finding signatures, making playerskill more important etc. I, as mentioned above, have problems with the huge moving boxes of the probes, as well as the background (mightve been my eve settings to), it is also difficult to spot where your probes actually are. The probe window resets everytime i drop another probe. What i noticed is, with the very small scanning duration the cov ops bonus is not much worth anymore. More important tho, with triangulation making bms for dropping probes is a must, and the very fast warp speed of the cov ops makes that very frustrating. I suggest changing the cov ops bonus to something more usefull, scan strength of the probes, probe amount - something like that. Or maybe give them a small jumpdrive ;) The only thing going for them is simply their small mass but i guess it doesnt matter that much?
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:32:00 - [62] I now have 8 probes in a rough sphere around a site, all sitting at around 0.1 au range and have their range set to the minimum (0.25) and I still can't get more than 77.35% strength. Is that how it's supposed to be? http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/2009.02.09.17.25.34.jpg http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/2009.02.09.17.25.25.jpg
Jenna Malone Caldari W-hat LLC	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:33:00 - [63] Scanned a multitude of systems, have yet to find a wormhole. If it's such a tedious exercise as scanning down regular cosmic anomalities, well, screw wormholes then!
Thaliya Dejar Jagdkommando RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:34:00 - [64] Originally by: CCP Greyscale Originally by: Thaliya Dejar Got one !!!!!!!!!!!!! http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0902/2009.02.09.16.37.01.jpg You win a prize of some kind. Did you try going through it yet? Damn i jumped.... The jump goes to Kenny Pet space

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:36:00 - [65] Originally by: Rexthor Hammerfists What i noticed is, with the very small scanning duration the cov ops bonus is not much worth anymore. More important tho, with triangulation making bms for dropping probes is a must, and the very fast warp speed of the cov ops makes that very frustrating. The covert ops is going to get its bonus changed, as will several skills and all the rigs and implants. Originally by: Hoshi I now have 8 probes in a rough sphere around a site, all sitting at around 0.1 au range and have their range set to the minimum (0.25) and I still can't get more than 77.35% strength. Is that how it's supposed to be? http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/2009.02.09.17.25.34.jpg http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/2009.02.09.17.25.25.jpg I suspect that's one of the harder nullsec sites you've found, that have very high sensor strength and are thus very very very hard to find right now. I'm going to rebalance them all downwards to alleviate this problem as now that we have non-probabalistic scanning, and you can't close that last gap by dropping a sift within a very short distance, it's unnecessary and undesirable to have sites with such a high sensor strength.

mamolian Cruoris Seraphim	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:44:00 - [66] I can't even open the system map atm.. Hugely frustrating.. Can't seem to alter the range of the probes, so can't offer much feedback sadly -----------
Phoenix Pryde Caldari 3-I Area 42	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:45:00 - [67] Should it be possible to change the scan range for the Core Scanner Probe I ? Has a default 2 AU for me. However right-click -> scan range and selecting some other range doesnt change a thing ....
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:46:00 - [68] one thing with map: leave ability of moving ship while 2x clicking on map. It helps a lot. As for scanning - what are deep space probes? Combat? Exploration? Cant buy them because market is broken.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:47:00 - [69] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 09/02/2009 17:51:04 Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 09/02/2009 17:50:00 Had two successful probings now, one a FW major site (hard to find) and a gas harvest site. Moving probes; 1. Turn off Scene2 and restart client. 2. Drop a probe and notice the POS style placement cursor. Drag or push the arrown until the box is in desired location. Note: There is a ~5s delay from making last adjustment until probe enters warp, so not much room for butter fingers. Drop four probes in system, each with enough range to cover at least half the system (ie. 64au gate-gate, use 32au probes) If any of the probes report a hit selecting the result will show which probe is the winner. Converge all other probes on it reducing scan range to the reported range. -If two probes report in a circle will show approximate location and range. Move the two other drones to encompass the circle. Reduce range as needed. -When three probes report in, a 'traditional' result will show red/yellow. Reduce probe range and move close so the result is in the overlap of all four .. repeat until result goes green (100%) and warp away. Critique: Have a result using 5 probes all down to 0.25AU evenly spaced around result in an 0.4 system and I am unable to get result over 75%. At this range everything becomes one big mess and nearly impossible to adjust probes. Perhaps tweak the probe strength?
Leere Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:50:00 - [70] Edited by: Leere on 09/02/2009 17:52:05 never mind ^^that guy^^ explained it while I was typing what do the different result symbols mean? sometimes I get a red circle, what does it represent? and sometimes I get a dot like the old result symbols but I still can't warp to it.

Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:51:00 - [71] I managed to get it down to 81% before I gave up, just not worth the trouble :) Btw it seems that probe position and moving widget position doesn't always line up. If I unclick active (to see better the relative positions of the probes) and then click it again the sphere and widget can be at a different position, sometimes it's moved all the way back to my ship while other times it might just be 0.1-0.2 au wrong. Makes it very annoying to make fine adjustments. Here is one example: The selected probe is in the cluster with the other probes while the sphere + widget is over by my ship. http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/2009.02.09.17.45.05.jpg And here is another one where the sphere + widget is 0.1 au too much to the left (the selected probe is Probe 48 at the center of the screen). http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/2009.02.09.17.46.28.jpg Not sure how to recreate, just seems to happen randomly. ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Hoshi Eviction.	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:53:00 - [72] Originally by: Leere what do the different result symbols mean? sometimes I get a red circle, what does it represent? and sometimes I get a dot like the old result symbols but I still can't warp to it. That's a fairly accurate (the site is very close to that spot) hit but not strong enough to warp to, you need a signal strength of 100% (green dot) before you can warp to it. Other types of hits are different sized blueish sphere (with just 1 probe) and a red circle (with 2 probes). ---------------------------------------- A Guide to Scan Probing in Revelations
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:55:00 - [73] Uh, silly question, since I don't have Astrometrics V on any character, but can someone say whether this system does or does not apply to scanning for *ships*? Currently on TQ, I can drop a single probe and have a warpable scan result in under 30 seconds as long as they aren't in deadspace, but it sounds like this new system will take quite a bit longer. If the new system does apply to ship scanning, have you considered the major game balance changes involving safespot busting? -----------
Leere Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:55:00 - [74] so the best thing to do on it then would just mash scan over and over with .25 probes all around it?
Demeterus Caldari	Posted - 2009.02.09 17:57:00 - [75] Is there an ETA on when you will be able to scan without Astrometrics V? As it is now, it's fairly pointless to be on SiSi and help out with testing if you're not actually able to test anything. :) --- Why are you reading my sig? Did you expect something of sigs?
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:00:00 - [76] Merin, it would depend on the signature of target I'd think. You will need the 3-4 probes at any rate and probably move them once or twice so overall time will probably increase (each scan takes 5s, really fast, so different system entirely) Originally by: Leere so the best thing to do on it then would just mash scan over and over with .25 probes all around it? As far as I can see the probe results are no longer 'random' like on TQ. The probe hit only changes when you reposition the probes (closer is better)
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:04:00 - [77] Originally by: Leere Edited by: Leere on 09/02/2009 18:00:20 so the best thing to do on it then would just mash scan over and over with .25 probes all around it? Exactly what i was thinking just now. Start 4x 32au, when you find signature (even 0,1%) reduce all probes to 0,25au and get em close to sig. Or maybe im wrong?
DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:04:00 - [78] i like this new system for exploration scanning. but i dont see how i will be faster with this system to scan ships. with actual system i need 23 secs to get them. now that i need 4 probes and have to move them around and so one, it will allready take 20+ secs to place all those probes. hope CCP will redo the ship scanning part.
Leere Ars ex Discordia GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:05:00 - [79] how do the strentghs of the probes work? is a core probe at 8au stronger or weaker than a deep space at 8au?
Mikal Drey Minmatar Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:10:00 - [80] hey hey Well . .. i placed 6 probes and checked each one individually so they all got solo hits. I done a mass scan and just couldnt get a solid hit that was warpable :/ (only scanned for a cosmic signature) @Greyscale. the deep space probes have a minimum range of 8 AU but the drag bubble will drag to a smaller range then spring back to 8 AU. Is there any way to lock the bubble minimum drag distance to 8au ? tbh this seems to be very superflous code. no point in doing something tis nto capable of :/ also if you get a hit (red, yellow, spot) etc you cant warp to it so your ship is going to be stuck floating in space scanning whilst toally able to get hunted down and killed and you wont notice cause your buried in the map :/ can you scan whilst cloaked ? Many thanks Many thanks


CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:14:00 - [81] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 09/02/2009 17:51:04 Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 09/02/2009 17:50:00 Had two successful probings now, one a FW major site (hard to find) and a gas harvest site. Moving probes; 1. Turn off Scene2 and restart client. 2. Drop a probe and notice the POS style placement cursor. Drag or push the arrown until the box is in desired location. Note: There is a ~5s delay from making last adjustment until probe enters warp, so not much room for butter fingers. Drop four probes in system, each with enough range to cover at least half the system (ie. 64au gate-gate, use 32au probes) If any of the probes report a hit selecting the result will show which probe is the winner. Converge all other probes on it reducing scan range to the reported range. -If two probes report in a circle will show approximate location and range. Move the two other drones to encompass the circle. Reduce range as needed. -When three probes report in, a 'traditional' result will show red/yellow. Reduce probe range and move close so the result is in the overlap of all four .. repeat until result goes green (100%) and warp away. Critique: Have a result using 5 probes all down to 0.25AU evenly spaced around result in an 0.4 system and I am unable to get result over 75%. At this range everything becomes one big mess and nearly impossible to adjust probes. Perhaps tweak the probe strength? This is good advice. Note that if you grab a face of the cube rather than the arrows you can move in that plane. There's a change coming soon that will cause the probes to move only when you hit "analyze", so you'll have as long as you like to position them. Originally by: Hoshi I managed to get it down to 81% before I gave up, just not worth the trouble :) Btw it seems that probe position and moving widget position doesn't always line up. If I unclick active (to see better the relative positions of the probes) and then click it again the sphere and widget can be at a different position, sometimes it's moved all the way back to my ship while other times it might just be 0.1-0.2 au wrong. Makes it very annoying to make fine adjustments. Here is one example: The selected probe is in the cluster with the other probes while the sphere + widget is over by my ship. http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/2009.02.09.17.45.05.jpg And here is another one where the sphere + widget is 0.1 au too much to the left (the selected probe is Probe 48 at the center of the screen). http://www.ludd.ltu.se/~mcgreag/eve/2009.02.09.17.46.28.jpg Not sure how to recreate, just seems to happen randomly. That's a defect waiting to be fixed, I believe. And yes, it is annoying! Originally by: Merin Ryskin Uh, silly question, since I don't have Astrometrics V on any character, but can someone say whether this system does or does not apply to scanning for *ships*? Currently on TQ, I can drop a single probe and have a warpable scan result in under 30 seconds as long as they aren't in deadspace, but it sounds like this new system will take quite a bit longer. If the new system does apply to ship scanning, have you considered the major game balance changes involving safespot busting? Yes, this applies to ships, and yes it will make finding ships harder. Personally I'm happy with this - the current system is IMO too fast, and apart from anything else made ship probing far less common, in my experience. With the old old system people would use safespots because good probing pilots were rare and it took a long time. When the old system came in and everyone realized that there's no such thing as a safespot, the chances of actually finding someone (outside missions and so on) became much lower. I'm interested to see how this new system affects things. That said, if you do have a strong opinion on this issue, please explain it here clearly :)


CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:14:00 - [82] Originally by: Leere Edited by: Leere on 09/02/2009 18:00:20 so the best thing to do on it then would just mash scan over and over with .25 probes all around it? more than a few times I've also had probes get stuck moving or warping and I'll have to recall them to reset them It's not chance-based any more so mashing the button isn't going to help, I'm afraid. Originally by: Demeterus Is there an ETA on when you will be able to scan without Astrometrics V? As it is now, it's fairly pointless to be on SiSi and help out with testing if you're not actually able to test anything. :) No, I don't have an ETA right now, sorry.

Gomme Arabi	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:14:00 - [83] confirming you can scan while cloaked
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:14:00 - [84] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Leere Edited by: Leere on 09/02/2009 18:00:20 so the best thing to do on it then would just mash scan over and over with .25 probes all around it? Exactly what i was thinking just now. Start 4x 32au, when you find signature (even 0,1%) reduce all probes to 0,25au and get em close to sig. Or maybe im wrong? Quoting myself, but: it is exactly as i said. You need to add some deviation to results (so they land within shorter scan range) otherwise whole system is pointless. ATM: 1. drop 1x 32au - if there is sig: 2. drop 4x 32au - find location of sig (move around so you get 1x 1,5% str. and do not get any doubles) 3. reduce range to 0.25, move all probes within sig range. Plex found. Total time: less than 3 minutes. Proposed: 1. drop 32au - find plex 2. drop 4x 32au - find location (as above) location is 0-16au from point you see on map (depends on plex difficulty). Thus you need to make your way "down" 3. reduce range to 16au, get 8au result 4. reduce range... etc Ofc. result (and deviation) would be sig str. dependant. A bit more complicated but disables cheating as in 1st (currently on sisi) method. Well... unless you want all plexes to be WAY easier to scan that it is now on TQ.

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:18:00 - [85] Originally by: Leere how do the strentghs of the probes work? is a core probe at 8au stronger or weaker than a deep space at 8au? Each step doubles the size and halves the scan strength. Originally by: Mikal Drey the deep space probes have a minimum range of 8 AU but the drag bubble will drag to a smaller range then spring back to 8 AU. Is there any way to lock the bubble minimum drag distance to 8au ? tbh this seems to be very superflous code. no point in doing something tis nto capable of :/ also if you get a hit (red, yellow, spot) etc you cant warp to it so your ship is going to be stuck floating in space scanning whilst toally able to get hunted down and killed and you wont notice cause your buried in the map :/ can you scan whilst cloaked ? I'll look into the drag-locking, it used to do that so it's probably a bug. And yes, you can scan cloaked. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Leere Edited by: Leere on 09/02/2009 18:00:20 so the best thing to do on it then would just mash scan over and over with .25 probes all around it? Exactly what i was thinking just now. Start 4x 32au, when you find signature (even 0,1%) reduce all probes to 0,25au and get em close to sig. Or maybe im wrong? Quoting myself, but: it is exactly as i said. You need to add some deviation to results (so they land within shorter scan range) otherwise whole system is pointless. ATM: 1. drop 1x 32au - if there is sig: 2. drop 4x 32au - find location of sig (move around so you get 1x 1,5% str. and do not get any doubles) 3. reduce range to 0.25, move all probes within sig range. Plex found. Total time: less than 3 minutes. Proposed: 1. drop 32au - find plex 2. drop 4x 32au - find location (as above) location is 0-16au from point you see on map (depends on plex difficulty). Thus you need to make your way "down" 3. reduce range to 16au, get 8au result 4. reduce range... etc Ofc. result (and deviation) would be sig str. dependant. A bit more complicated but disables cheating as in 1st (currently on sisi) method. Well... unless you want all plexes to be WAY easier to scan that it is now on TQ. HMMMM. It should be deviating, so if it's not that's probably a bug too. Will investigate this.

Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:19:00 - [86] Weyhey! I found a W-Hole, in 0.7 Alkabsi. "Readings from your ship's computer suggest that this wormhole will take you into unexplored space. It's unlikely that CONCORD will be able to provide any assistance in such a remote area, so you should proceed with extreme caution." No idea what the mass restrictions etc. are since info shows nothing .. is there yet another module needed to get data on them?
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:19:00 - [87] Where can I chose what I am scanning for? I don't want to scan for cosmic anomalies, structures, drones or whatever. I just want to scan for wormholes. But somehow the selection box is gone where I was able to chose what I want to scan for. Really, that cannot but intended but has to be a bug?
Deva Blackfire coracao ardente	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:22:00 - [88] Back to my questions: - what is deep space probe for - do wormholes show as "cosmic signature" in results? or different?

CCP Greyscale	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:24:00 - [89] Originally by: Gnulpie Where can I chose what I am scanning for? I don't want to scan for cosmic anomalies, structures, drones or whatever. I just want to scan for wormholes. But somehow the selection box is gone where I was able to chose what I want to scan for. Really, that cannot but intended but has to be a bug? There's a white arrow on the left of the results section that lets you create filters. Originally by: Deva Blackfire Back to my questions: - what is deep space probe for - do wormholes show as "cosmic signature" in results? or different? - Being teh hueg - Yes

DeepBlue Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2009.02.09 18:27:00 - [90] this looks like a bug: i just found a wormhole warping there got me this message: "Readings from your ship's computer suggest that this wormhole is likely to take you elsewhere in 0.0-rated space." approaching it with cheetah and trying to jump gave this message: "This wormhole has collapsed"



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