Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
|
CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
391
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
For the Inferno 1.2 release, we've modified the self-destruct mechanics a little. These changes are now live on the Singularity test server. You can go and try them for yourself, and leave feedback in this thread.
Loot Drops Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.
Kill Reports Ships that self-destruct whilst under aggression will now generate a regular kill-report. In order for this to happen, the ship must have been recently aggressed, and there must be at least one of the aggressors in space in the system at the time of death. The final-blow will be awarded to the eligible attacker who inflicted the most damage.
Self-destructs that do not involve player aggression will not generate a kill-report
By the way, you may have seen reports of the occasional self-destruct kill-report on Tranquility recently. These were caused by an unrelated defect, and were not intentional. Typically the items list of such mails is incomplete. I'm stating this in-advance, as no doubt someone would have asked about it. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
|
Morwen Lagann
Tyrathlion Interstellar
328
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
So. Much. Win. |
Cerebella
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:53:00 -
[3] - Quote
GROUND FLOOR |
Scrym
Un-Lucky Confederation of the 45
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:54:00 -
[4] - Quote
finally damn |
spartan885
Eve Defence Force Fatal Ascension
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
\o/ hooo ******* ray
there is no escape now :) |
Strata Maslav
Born-2-Kill
31
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:55:00 -
[6] - Quote
Nicely done, son! |
Emperor Salazar
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
603
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:55:00 -
[7] - Quote
better late than never I guess? |
Jiska Ensa
Unour Heavy Industries
80
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
Can we at least now make self-destruct happen faster? Say 10 seconds instead of two minutes? Waiting for people to kill me is such a bore...
Also woudln't it make more sense to list the person who self-destucted as the "final blow" guy? Or would that fall into the "people who don't post lossmails" category of douchebaggery? |
Dior Saursi
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
8
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:55:00 -
[9] - Quote
Fantastic. I've lost a fair number of carrier kills to this. |
Aamrr
275
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:55:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nice change. But if we're going to prevent players from destroying their loot by self-destruct, what's to prevent them from sticking it in a corp hangar? |
|
Tarithell
Rim Collection RC Test Alliance Please Ignore
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
About time +1. |
Dovinian
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
1087
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:56:00 -
[12] - Quote
Excellent change! Thanks for pushing this through. |
Oberine Noriepa
852
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:56:00 -
[13] - Quote
Awesome. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
2068
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
This is why CCP Masterplan is the best plan. This is something that a lot of players have been asking about for the last few years, and it is great to see CCP fix it! CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
|
Akrasjel Lanate
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
752
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:56:00 -
[15] - Quote
Nice |
Werst Dendenahzees
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
96
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:For the Inferno 1.2 release, we've modified the self-destruct mechanics a little. These changes are now live on the Singularity test server. You can go and try them for yourself, and leave feedback in this thread.
Loot Drops Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.
Kill Reports Ships that self-destruct whilst under aggression will now generate a regular kill-report. In order for this to happen, the ship must have been recently aggressed, and there must be at least one of the aggressors in space in the system at the time of death. The final-blow will be awarded to the eligible attacker who inflicted the most damage.
Self-destructs that do not involve player aggression will not generate a kill-report
By the way, you may have seen reports of the occasional self-destruct kill-report on Tranquility recently. These were caused by an unrelated defect, and were not intentional. Typically the items list of such mails is incomplete. I'm stating this in-advance, as no doubt someone would have asked about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_J6-3l3hCm0 |
Mac Zehn
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:56:00 -
[17] - Quote
Please make self destructing ships damage other ships around them tia |
Gossamer DT
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
82
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:56:00 -
[18] - Quote
I love you, I want so many good things for you, now can you go pull fozzy head out of his low region? who is your main, and what does he do? |
Arydanika
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
143
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Thumbs up. Voices from the Void; a bi-weekly podcast and weekly news vlog featuring current events of the MMORPG Eve Online. Check out other Eve Online podcasts by visiting the Eve Online Pod Pack. |
|
CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
2844
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
cool stuff!! Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
|
|
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
132
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Jiska Ensa wrote:Can we at least now make self-destruct happen faster? Say 10 seconds instead of two minutes? ?
This ^
As the only reason I can see for it taking so long to self destruct was to give people chance to kill you can we simply have a self destruct followed by are you sure insta destruct change added please.
|
Frabba
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
This is a fantastic change, thank you CCP! its me im the best poster. |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Drop timer to 30 seconds, and you have a perfect improvement. |
James Arget
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:02:00 -
[24] - Quote
How about them POS shields? |
KelShanique TiAndre JaLarion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:Drop timer to 30 seconds, and you have a perfect improvement.
|
Hans Jagerblitzen
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
2688
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Jiska Ensa wrote:Can we at least now make self-destruct happen faster? Say 10 seconds instead of two minutes? ? This ^ As the only reason I can see for it taking so long to self destruct was to give people chance to kill you can we simply have a self destruct followed by are you sure insta destruct change added please.
The CSM threw up a thread about self-destruct creating kill reports when we first took office, and have been discussing it with CCP off and on since whenever the subject came up. I'm not entirely convinced we need INSTANT self-destruct, but one of the CSM's suggestions was to scale the self-destruct sequence based on the size of ship. So maybe pods could be near instant, frigates might be 10 seconds, cruisers 30, battleships 60 seconds, capitals 2 minutes, etc. (Though these numbers are just an example)
Thoughts? We'll be happy to keep bugging the devs about the timer length if its something that's important to you all. Vice Secretary of the 7th Council of Stellar Management.
|
Jiska Ensa
Unour Heavy Industries
80
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Jiska Ensa wrote:Can we at least now make self-destruct happen faster? Say 10 seconds instead of two minutes? ? This ^ As the only reason I can see for it taking so long to self destruct was to give people chance to kill you can we simply have a self destruct followed by are you sure insta destruct change added please. The CSM threw up a thread about self-destruct creating kill reports when we first took office, and have been discussing it with CCP off and on since than whenever the subject came up. I'm not entirely convinced we need INSTANT self-destruct, but one of the CSM's suggestions was to scale the self-destruct sequence based on the size of ship. So maybe pods could be near instant, frigates might be 10 seconds, cruisers 30, battleships 60 seconds, capitals 2 minutes, etc. (Though these numbers are just an example) Thoughts? We'll be happy to keep bugging the devs about the timer length if its something that's important to you all.
Works for me. I was mainly thinking of pods anyway. It's pretty rare a ship takes longer than 2 minutes to kill. |
DJWiggles
Eve Radio Corporation
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
SO MUCH WIN \o/ Live on Eve Radio Wednesdays 19:00 GMT with me & friends blabbering on about Eve and stuff |
Kismeteer
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
181
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:08:00 -
[29] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Thoughts? We'll be happy to keep bugging the devs about the timer length if its something that's important to you all.
Two minutes is way too long. 10 seconds could prevent an inexperienced pilot from finding the 'off' switch soon enough, not to mention the fleet change timer is longer. I think 30 is 'long enough' for a pilot to turn it off, avoiding those weird 'you can't do that now' timers, and short enough to give you the sweet release of death.
Whatever you do, don't do different length timers, don't burden pilots with having to know the different lengths of time. |
StarFleetCommander
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
22
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:10:00 -
[30] - Quote
FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!! |
|
Gibbo3771
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
168
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:12:00 -
[31] - Quote
Change it so the loot doesent drop fs, I am pretty sure if you hit self destruct on anything with such a function, it is designed to kill everything attached/part of it. Everytime you dont like my comments/posts the terrorists win and your a disgrace to your country. |
Rengas
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
+9000 likes. |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
132
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
Kismeteer wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Thoughts? We'll be happy to keep bugging the devs about the timer length if its something that's important to you all. Two minutes is way too long. 10 seconds could prevent an inexperienced pilot from finding the 'off' switch soon enough, not to mention the fleet change timer is longer. I think 30 is 'long enough' for a pilot to turn it off, avoiding those weird 'you can't do that now' timers, and short enough to give you the sweet release of death. Whatever you do, don't do different length timers, don't burden pilots with having to know the different lengths of time.
Don't see the point of any wait tbh as it doesn't add anything to the game, simple add a confirmation box and if a new pilot accidently chooses self destruct followed up by YES on a confirmation box then losing the odd ship isn't the worst thing in the world. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
2072
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Jiska Ensa wrote:Can we at least now make self-destruct happen faster? Say 10 seconds instead of two minutes? ? This ^ As the only reason I can see for it taking so long to self destruct was to give people chance to kill you can we simply have a self destruct followed by are you sure insta destruct change added please. The CSM threw up a thread about self-destruct creating kill reports when we first took office, and have been discussing it with CCP off and on since than whenever the subject came up. I'm not entirely convinced we need INSTANT self-destruct, but one of the CSM's suggestions was to scale the self-destruct sequence based on the size of ship. So maybe pods could be near instant, frigates might be 10 seconds, cruisers 30, battleships 60 seconds, capitals 2 minutes, etc. (Though these numbers are just an example) Thoughts? We'll be happy to keep bugging the devs about the timer length if its something that's important to you all.
Actually, it even predates CSM 7, and has long been one of our top issues.
There are a couple of problems with reducing the SD time: 1) Accidents. You need to give people a chance to cancel 2) Preventing people from reshipping. If you kill an enemy's ship, you might not want to pod them so that it will take them longer to get back into the fight. They might have to clear a bubble or have a corpmate kill them to get back to their cloning station, and sometimes that is a good thing.
I do support some sort of reduction of the timer, I think a minute seems more reasonable to me. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
|
Mumtaz Khan
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
48
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:19:00 -
[35] - Quote
This is the best update since pod-kill reports! |
Shimali Softpaws
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:For the Inferno 1.2 release, we've modified the self-destruct mechanics a little. These changes are now live on the Singularity test server. You can go and try them for yourself, and leave feedback in this thread.
Loot Drops Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.
Kill Reports Ships that self-destruct whilst under aggression will now generate a regular kill-report. In order for this to happen, the ship must have been recently aggressed, and there must be at least one of the aggressors in space in the system at the time of death. The final-blow will be awarded to the eligible attacker who inflicted the most damage.
Self-destructs that do not involve player aggression will not generate a kill-report
By the way, you may have seen reports of the occasional self-destruct kill-report on Tranquility recently. These were caused by an unrelated defect, and were not intentional. Typically the items list of such mails is incomplete. I'm stating this in-advance, as no doubt someone would have asked about it.
I like the feel of this one. |
Poloturion
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Masterplan, best plan. Most excellent! |
Jake Rivers
Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:22:00 -
[38] - Quote
Very nice!
2 Thumbs up! |
Mikal Red
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:Change it so the loot doesent drop fs Spot the person who like's self destructing
Great change, thank you |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
4368
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:For the Inferno 1.2 release, we've modified the self-destruct mechanics a little. These changes are now live on the Singularity test server. You can go and try them for yourself, and leave feedback in this thread.
Loot Drops Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.
Kill Reports Ships that self-destruct whilst under aggression will now generate a regular kill-report. In order for this to happen, the ship must have been recently aggressed, and there must be at least one of the aggressors in space in the system at the time of death. The final-blow will be awarded to the eligible attacker who inflicted the most damage.
Self-destructs that do not involve player aggression will not generate a kill-report
By the way, you may have seen reports of the occasional self-destruct kill-report on Tranquility recently. These were caused by an unrelated defect, and were not intentional. Typically the items list of such mails is incomplete. I'm stating this in-advance, as no doubt someone would have asked about it.
Excellent! Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |
|
Cecil Arongo
Gh0st Hunters D3vil's Childr3n
25
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Awesome change, Masterplan!
Now, about salvaging corpses for the implants... proposal coming Soon! This is for all you new people: I have one rule. Everyone fights, no one quits. If you dont do your job I will shoot you myself. DO YOU GET ME? |
David Barr
Barr Heavy Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
Fantastic, it now makes so much more sense. This really is great news. |
Lord Maldoror
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
306
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
Great to see this change finally under way.
I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.
In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).
For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).
As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.
There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction. |
Possum's Awesome
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
55
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Gibbo3771 wrote:Change it so the loot doesent drop fs, I am pretty sure if you hit self destruct on anything with such a function, it is designed to kill everything attached/part of it.
We've had it that way for years. Except for the market being affected by any extra high meta modules that used to be lost with SD, there's no reason to keep it this way, except for ego.
Possum's Awesome : Awesome Possum
Unjustly accused and condemned for his crimes. |
Sykin Mullerian
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Dont care that much about the loot, i was perfectly fine with people denying me loot if they want to. Would be nice if self destructing a ship took out your pod though, at least for wormhole sieges where its very easy to end up with locals that just sit in their shield and self destruct everything.
Its definitely a step in the right direction though and very much appreciated! |
Doodle Dingle
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:34:00 -
[46] - Quote
In one way, I really like this change - nothing worse than a cap self destructing right in front of you..
In another way, this ruins what I believed was the very reason for the Self destruct to be a part of this game? - To give the attacked a way to rob the attackers(if they are not good enough/enough people) from having a look at your super top secret technology/fitting.
Why would we have a self destruct in the first place if it wasn't intended to work as we see it in all the sci-fi movies. (****, we are ******, don't let our technology fall into enemy hands - SD initiated)
With this change, however, it would be sweet if CCP could make self destructing inside a POS impossible as well. You can't fire, target etc. inside a POS.. Makes sense to remove SD'ing inside a POS aswell, now where SD is no longer a feature to prevent the generation og KM's. |
Max Kolonko
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
174
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:39:00 -
[47] - Quote
YES +100000000 Read and support: Don't mess with OUR WH's What is Your stance on WH stuff? |
Misanth
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE
674
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:44:00 -
[48] - Quote
I guess I'm one of few that doesn't 100% like this change, but whatever, if the majority wants it.. I do see benefits ofc.
For the records I have missed numberous supercap, capital, Orca and whatnot mails thanks to the no-mail-from-sd, and I havn't denied anyone a mail from selfdestructing myself. But I did like the option, that you could potentially grief someone while you died, and I know I planned to do this for certain ships if they were ever caught. I'm a bit 50/50 on this so fine with the changes, but I can't help but feel this takes away some of the fun from the game. (that being said, if players weren't so damn killmail horny and/or we removed killmails completely, noone would've cared about sd, right? it's just bad player mentality, not bad mechanics)
The loot changes tho, is pure love, and something that made more sense. You can still deny people loot by shooting wrecks etc, but this makes it more balanced imho.
Grats to all of you that have wished for this. shiptoastin' liek a baws |
Mirei Jun
Right to Rule Test Friends Please Ignore
37
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:47:00 -
[49] - Quote
So! You've finally seen the light!
(FYI, that guy on the right who can't see it is a dev from the past 7 years) |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:48:00 -
[50] - Quote
Best change ever in a long time, thanks CCP for fixing a broken mechanic. |
|
Arkon Olacar
Imperial Guardians Tribal Band
101
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Not sure which is more awesome: this long overdue brilliant change, or the tear-generating potential this change brings. "The rest will be in the blog rather than invented at the keyboards of forum posters and bloggers." -á-á-á-á-á-á-á - CCP Sreegs, 23/06/2012
Umad forum warriors? |
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:49:00 -
[52] - Quote
This is great news, thank you for this awesome change. |
Miura Bull
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:55:00 -
[53] - Quote
Good news! Any chance to backdate this so I can have my jag-on-machariel killmail? I'm not mad or anything nor do I ever get flashbacks to that fateful day. K thanks bye. |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Test Alliance Please Ignore
90
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:56:00 -
[54] - Quote
I cannot press "like" enough on this post. |
Royal Jedi
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
59
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
So much love. |
Warlord Shat
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:57:00 -
[56] - Quote
Best change in a long time |
|
CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
440
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
Two step wrote:Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Jiska Ensa wrote:Can we at least now make self-destruct happen faster? Say 10 seconds instead of two minutes? ? This ^ As the only reason I can see for it taking so long to self destruct was to give people chance to kill you can we simply have a self destruct followed by are you sure insta destruct change added please. The CSM threw up a thread about self-destruct creating kill reports when we first took office, and have been discussing it with CCP off and on since than whenever the subject came up. I'm not entirely convinced we need INSTANT self-destruct, but one of the CSM's suggestions was to scale the self-destruct sequence based on the size of ship. So maybe pods could be near instant, frigates might be 10 seconds, cruisers 30, battleships 60 seconds, capitals 2 minutes, etc. (Though these numbers are just an example) Thoughts? We'll be happy to keep bugging the devs about the timer length if its something that's important to you all. Actually, it even predates CSM 7, and has long been one of our top issues. There are a couple of problems with reducing the SD time: 1) Accidents. You need to give people a chance to cancel 2) Preventing people from reshipping. If you kill an enemy's ship, you might not want to pod them so that it will take them longer to get back into the fight. They might have to clear a bubble or have a corpmate kill them to get back to their cloning station, and sometimes that is a good thing. I do support some sort of reduction of the timer, I think a minute seems more reasonable to me. As discussed above, there are tactical implications to altering the timers, which we don't want to mess with right now.
Mumtaz Khan wrote:This is the best update since pod-kill reports! Every time I see a full Slave set on a kill, I smile.
Lord Maldoror wrote:Great to see this change finally under way.
I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.
In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).
For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).
As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.
There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction. Yes, we've been kicking around this discussion with the CSM for a while now, and I think I remember seeing Meissa bringing up those numbers.
Bagehi wrote:I cannot press "like" enough on this post. What about this one? "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
|
Crassus Detlator
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
This is a great change!
Regarding the timer discussion, I believe there is room for some improvement ( I liked the scaling timers idea based on ship class ). Maybe a solution to this could be that if the ship is currently not agressed, the player could select its own self destruct timer, constrained by the ship class.
What I would really like to see, is some kind of flag on the killmail that states that the player self-destructed. "Final blow" could be swapped for "Self-destructed". That way, the looting still occurs, the ship destroyed still affects the killboards, everybody involved gets a killmail, but it properly reflects what happened on the battlefield. After all, self-destructing should be some valid (albeit cowardly) way of denying the "Final blow" to someone else. And that should be its only "gain" in battle.
|
Makari Aeron
The Shadow's Of Eve TSOE Consortium
30
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:18:00 -
[59] - Quote
I like timers as they are. It gives two minutes to get as many friends on the ship as possible before blowing it up. CCP RedDawn: Ugly people are just playing life on HARD mode. Personally, I'm playing on an INFERNO difficulty...
|
Gritz1
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
91
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:28:00 -
[60] - Quote
I disagree with the loot drop. I don't fly any caps so I can't say this really affects me, but I understand when a pilot SD's in order to deny any mods from dropped. Its a tactical decision a pilot makes with his ship.
The kill mail part, however, is full on win sauce. |
|
The Snowman
Aliastra Gallente Federation
46
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:35:00 -
[61] - Quote
hmm, by the sounds of it, its an obvious and very long awaited fix.
Was there any gory technical details that was preventing this fix sooner? |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:36:00 -
[62] - Quote
Lord Maldoror wrote:Great to see this change finally under way.
I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.
In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).
For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).
As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.
There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction.
I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live.
|
Johan March
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:37:00 -
[63] - Quote
I support this change. |
jonnykefka
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
96
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:41:00 -
[64] - Quote
Myz Toyou wrote:Lord Maldoror wrote:Great to see this change finally under way.
I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.
In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).
For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).
As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.
There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction. I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live.
You're being pretty conservative with that estimate. 50% or more, unless they stop coming out of the shields altogether. |
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
103
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:42:00 -
[65] - Quote
What is the point of self destruct anymore.
Im Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, skilled miner, archbishop of the Church of Providence, carrier of the Heaven's light, speaker of unquestioned truth, teacher of faith, self proclaimed prophet, symbol of unchallenged victory, golden mountain and many more impressive titles.
I want to know, why I cannot store anymore enought explosive devices in my ship to utterly decimate it entirely? |
Hannott Thanos
Notorious Legion
86
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:49:00 -
[66] - Quote
Vaari wrote:What is the point of self destruct anymore.
Im Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, skilled miner, archbishop of the Church of Providence, carrier of the Heaven's light, speaker of unquestioned truth, teacher of faith, self proclaimed prophet, symbol of unchallenged victory, golden mountain and many more impressive titles.
I want to know, why I cannot store anymore enought explosive devices in my ship to utterly decimate it entirely? Because f*** you, thats why. On a serious note, I do agree that a self destructed ship should not drop modules. |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:56:00 -
[67] - Quote
jonnykefka wrote:Myz Toyou wrote:Lord Maldoror wrote:Great to see this change finally under way.
I sent Meissa some stats a while ago, of the means by which our capital kills died (self-destruct vs. grinding down) and over 50% of all capital and supercapital kills made by Rooks and Kings over a three month period involved the hostile capital(s) self-destructing.
In one case we even learned of a hostile entity including self-destruct orders in their form up mails, should we drop them (which we did, and which they did).
For wormhole operations the ratio was even higher (and I assume all the wh pvp entities experience the same).
As mentioned already, this has been a long standing issue over several CSMs, and well done to all the people who have worked on this issue.
There are a few things in the mechanics of it that still need fine tuning but the general drive is in the right direction. I predict an increase of 20 - 30% of WH cap kill mails after the patch goes live. You're being pretty conservative with that estimate. 50% or more, unless they stop coming out of the shields altogether.
I-¦m being conservative cos we saw less SDs from 6 month back till today but maybe we were just lucky running into less tards lately.
|
Aareya
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 18:58:00 -
[68] - Quote
I agree with the other replies that suggest self destruct should destroy cargo. However, for fitted modules, self-destruct should run the same chance to drop or destroy as if the ship was destroyed by others. This gives a nice balance between maintaining the spirit of the self-destruct while still providing incentive to those who caused the pilot to self-destruct. |
Two step
Aperture Harmonics K162
2077
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:01:00 -
[69] - Quote
My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself. CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog
|
Yanaoo
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
5
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:07:00 -
[70] - Quote
Now just prevent SDing inside POS shields and W-space residents will love you long time. |
|
G0hme
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:09:00 -
[71] - Quote
<3 CCP Masterplan! Poke me at FF2013 for a Guinness and an Oban!
Two step wrote:My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself.
Well its still chance based, which would be equal to the level of incompetance of the person setting up in the charges inside your ship. Put them up right, no salvaged loot, miss a spot - loot drops! Makes perfect sense. Am I the only one thinking: "Mini-Game" when you initiate SD? Would love to be able to run around my ship placing charges and then run back to the escape pod just in time for the explosion not to kill my clone!
SD Timers:
Frigates: 30sec Cruisers: 1sec Battleships: 2min Capitals: 5mins Supers: 10mins (You would need alot of time to set up all those charges) Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
360
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:10:00 -
[72] - Quote
What about players that set the self destruct and then eject. What happens and what does the kill report look like?
This still does not solve the SD at a pos thing.
Maybe every kill in WH space creates a kill report? |
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:10:00 -
[73] - Quote
Aareya wrote:I agree with the other replies that suggest self destruct should destroy cargo. However, for fitted modules, self-destruct should run the same chance to drop or destroy as if the ship was destroyed by others. This gives a nice balance between maintaining the spirit of the self-destruct while still providing incentive to those who caused the pilot to self-destruct.
No one asked your opinion, wench. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
818
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:19:00 -
[74] - Quote
not sure about that. The killreport for not killing a ship might make many killboard power user happy. But the cargo drop change somehow removes a fun game mechanic.
also a question:
what happens if you self destruct in a T3? Wiki states no skills get lost, TQ behavior has always been a bit random. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
8784
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:29:00 -
[75] - Quote
Two step wrote:My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself. I like this idea.
Making SDs like any other kill rather removes their purpose except as a way of not triggering your clone jump timer.
If they were used as a GÇ£last spiteGÇ¥ effort GÇö yielding no intel and no loot GÇö then that purpose would remain (of course GÇ£no intelGÇ¥ would only mean that the KM showed an empty ship, not that one wasn't posted), but that last middle finger should indeed come at a cost.
GǪoh, and yes, when you're brave enough to do it devs, the timers really could use a once-over to make them scale with the general durability of the ship. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
CONCORD spawns: quick enough to save you?
|
Minmatar Citizen 76959458587
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:34:00 -
[76] - Quote
Yanaoo wrote:Now just prevent SDing inside POS shields and W-space residents will love you long time.
+GêP |
Scrym
Un-Lucky Confederation of the 45
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:50:00 -
[77] - Quote
Dovinian wrote:Excellent change! Thanks for pushing this through.
No, no. Thank YOU |
Candente
The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost
24
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:51:00 -
[78] - Quote
About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo. |
G0hme
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
15
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:59:00 -
[79] - Quote
Candente wrote:About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo.
Thats a load of bull, nobody want the mods of your T2 fit Carrier anyway. Assuming that people SD to keep a few modules from falling into the enemies hands is why they do it is ridiculos and naive. Its to not have it show up and the killboard and nothing else! You can't vapourize a ship. Shook Eelm's hand at Fanfest 2012 |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
23
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 19:59:00 -
[80] - Quote
Candente wrote:About the SD change... while the generating killmail part makes sense, the part of retaining loot doesn't. In common sense, self-destructing your own ship needs to be denying something the enemy would gain otherwise. After this change it becomes that you do your enemies a favor by self destructing and save their time to kill you... which is pretty convoluted imo. Agree with the above.
Generating a kill report is fine, dropping loot isn't imo. Scuttling your ship has to serve some function beyond "I'm stuck in WH space", otherwise you might as well remove the timer completely. |
|
Valeo Galaem
New Eden Advanced Reconnaissance Unit Sentient World Observation and Response Directive
51
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 20:50:00 -
[81] - Quote
So after this change an SD will
- Drop loot
- Generate a KM
- Pay out insurance
How is this in anyway different from a normal ship kill? What is the point? |
M Thomas
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:05:00 -
[82] - Quote
Valeo Galaem wrote:So after this change an SD will - Drop loot
- Generate a KM
- Pay out insurance
How is this in anyway different from a normal ship kill? What is the point?
Saves ammo and time. |
Frothgar
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:14:00 -
[83] - Quote
Very very happy with this change. |
Richter Enderas
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
159
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:20:00 -
[84] - Quote
Finally. No more taking the coward's way out. |
Sofia Wolf
Ubuntu Inc. Varangon Tagma
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:24:00 -
[85] - Quote
I don't like this change, self district was excellent way of griefing people that are abut to kill you, flipping them of as saying, GÇ£Hahahaha ...you shell have no loot, no kill mail and no Lieutenant Yar!" It is far more tears inducing then any spam in local or even actually killing their ship. Just look at all those people crying in this tread about long lost killmails! What else in eve could make one player cause more frustration then then blue balling opponent at climax of victory in such beautifully destructive fashion?
In fact IGÇÖd like to propose change that would enhance this experience, in addition to denying loot and killreport when player self destructs all people that attacked him should have this video run in their EVE client screen:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo[/url]
|
Gnaw LF
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
125
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:26:00 -
[86] - Quote
Valeo Galaem wrote:So after this change an SD will - Drop loot
- Generate a KM
- Pay out insurance
How is this in anyway different from a normal ship kill? What is the point?
Self Destruct is a function that allows you to get back to your clone station with a penalty of a ship / pod loss. Reason why you need it is if you are stuck, either by your own mistake (in w-space system) or through actions of others (fight occurred away from a gate or wormhole) and you are bubbled and scrammed. Basically SD is there to prevent time greifing from others, without SD they can try to "ransom" you and waste hours of your time. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
860
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 21:43:00 -
[87] - Quote
Looks like a good, popular change.
Now how about ejecting when hull is below 20% remaining, and having the ship instantly explode due to loss of a pilot with the mechanic skill? http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Michael Harari
The Hatchery Team Liquid
187
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 22:49:00 -
[88] - Quote
Id rather this apply only to capitals. There has been more than one time where I have been tackled by something I could tank permanently + a falcon (or falcons), and ended up self destructing.
Edit: Basically, there are actual uses for self destruct, mostly denying loot and km to people whose idea of pvp is an assault frigate and multiple recons. |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
386
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:02:00 -
[89] - Quote
Two step wrote:My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself.
I agree, self destruct should void the insurance Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
721
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Yet another half-arsed change. Who the hell considered it's a good ideat to entirely remove an established game feature on mere excuses of a) ships having WAY TOO MUCH EHP and b) ease of creating ONE-SIDED fights
How about you adressing these ISSUES instead of their minor consequences
What's the point in having SD now
Recently you just killed off an entire world of active shield tanking by introducing a single OP module which everyone and their dog is using now or gonna use soon, now this. Why remove game features or replace them with half-baked solutions It it really that hard to come with proper solutions, which will not negate one each other, but complement instead
Upond SDing:
- killmail is generated - no loot drops - no intel on ship setup is provided - no insurance is payed out
solves all the problems 14 |
|
Shade Millith
Fortis Defensor.
43
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:48:00 -
[91] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote: Upond SDing: - killmail is generated - no loot drops - no intel on ship setup is provided - no insurance is payed out solves all the problems
I agree.
Self Destructing is basically scuttling the ship. Destroying anything valuable would be obvious.
Yes to killmail, no to loot. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
25
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:51:00 -
[92] - Quote
There's no basically about it - self-destructing IS scuttling. With loot dropping it is entirely pointless it even having a timer, "tactical implications" (whatever they might be) or not. |
Cubana69
Euphoria Released Verge of Collapse
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:52:00 -
[93] - Quote
Yes. And finally. |
Goyathla
Apex Overplayed Coalition Fatal Ascension
6
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:
Loot Drops Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.
This would negate the purpose of having a self destruct, while I love the kill report why should the loot drop with the same chance? If you self destruct you should at least be denying most of the loot. Lower the odds and I am ecstatic!
Much Love,
~Goya |
Zorakk
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:12:00 -
[95] - Quote
First I like not allowing people to coward out but..
Why not just not allow SD while you have aggression if you're going to drop loot, etc like a normal kill?
Better yet SD should be an AOE explosion that generates a blast wave like the old school AOD DD. Size of blast is based on size of ship. If you got the balls to SD a Super, go for it. Anyone who had aggression when you SD'd gets a KM. And you get one for anyone you wipe out in the blast radius.
And everything in the ship is destroyed no dropped loot if you blow the ride...
|
Joccob
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:15:00 -
[96] - Quote
Yes to killmail. No to loot. Scuttling your ship has a long Naval history in RL. For example the famous Admiral Graf Spee |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
48
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:35:00 -
[97] - Quote
Game feature to work around killmail generation if in any capital:
Wait until into 25% structure (assuming you have Mechanic V trained, got forbid you are in a capital without it) Eject Pop No killmail, the loss of skills causes the ship's poof routine to fire before any death due to incoming dps.
This could work with subcaps as well but in capitals you tend to have a huge hull buffer with a damage control to let you easily eject at the right time.
Yawn, come up with more ways to generate free mails you blobbing turds.
There is at least one other method to avoid killmail generation, |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
43
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 00:49:00 -
[98] - Quote
Not sure why the loot drops .. but KM? WHOOOO Thanks Masterplan! You have the Masterplan :)
|
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
Unicorn Enterprise
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 01:15:00 -
[99] - Quote
A nice change, but frankly, i'm all up for SD destroying the loot - thus a viable mechanic to deny the killers the loot. Km generation, on the other hand, is YAY \o/ |
Kwashi
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 01:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
A long time coming. Huzzah for this change! |
|
Jack Miton
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
411
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 01:27:00 -
[101] - Quote
I want to have your babies :) |
Magnus Orin
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
178
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 01:46:00 -
[102] - Quote
About fucking time. |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 01:47:00 -
[103] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote: Upon SDing: - killmail is generated - no loot drops - no intel on ship setup is provided - no insurance is payed out solves all the problems
I could live with that even if I like to see all faction/officer shizzle on the KM. Atleast CCP moving into the right direction and removing the *** way out of PVP. |
JC Anderson
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
678
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 01:51:00 -
[104] - Quote
Pleased. |
Oh Hi There
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 02:20:00 -
[105] - Quote
I must follow the crowd in saying that you SHOULD get a killmail for self-destructing...but loot should NOT drop.
Think about it from a tactical approach...why would one self-destruct their own ship in a real-world situation? Because death is incoming, and to prevent the enemy from obtaining valuable cargo inside.
You should get a killmail. You should NOT get loot. |
ChaeDoc II
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
80
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 03:39:00 -
[106] - Quote
This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.
This is a sad day for EVE Online. |
joes Bazooka
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
28
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 03:56:00 -
[107] - Quote
ChaeDoc II wrote:This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.
This is a sad day for EVE Online.
Spoken by someone that couldn't balls up and had to SD his stuffs to save face. |
Lord Maldoror
Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings
306
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 04:25:00 -
[108] - Quote
To maintain the balance of the loot issue and create a 'goal' for someone self-destructing, a sensible compromise might be:
- The rules as outlined, including mail - No loot if self-destruct is successful but with: - 5 minute SD timer for capitals - 10 minute SD timer for supercapitals - Once cancelled, self-destruct cannot be reactivated under aggression.
A 5 minute timer on a capital and 10 minutes on a supercapital would give someone an ambitious goal to reach toward by overheating everything in a final attempt to deny loot to the attacking party - whilst still giving some chance for smaller gangs to cut through the EHP in time.
Granted, this would still mean that if a larger group of capitals and/or supers all self-destruct, then a lot of groups aren't going to be able to cut through them in time. However, the 5 and 10 minute timers would represent some sort of balance for most situations - and you could argue it might even add the challenge of ship scanning a good primary for the loot you really want
In that situation, too, the inability to initiate a second self-destruct after a 'cancel' would elminate larger groups of capitals from making 'speculative' self-destructs if unsure whether they will get backup or turn the course of the fight.
Some might even go further and suggest removing the option to cancel at all - but then we'd need some significantly more prominent warnings and hurdles before pressing the big red button (or some mechanic preventing a cancel while constantly aggressed, yet allowing an 'accidental' activation to be cancelled in safety, etc etc.)
At any rate, the longer timers might provide a middle ground on the loot issue. Plus, it would vaguely fit the RP that it takes longer to properly scuttle a much larger ship.
CCP Masterplan wrote: Yes, we've been kicking around this discussion with the CSM for a while now, and I think I remember seeing Meissa bringing up those numbers.
It was odd to go through all the numbers, screenshots and logs and see the actual result on paper. More even than mails or loot or anything like that, you look at the figures and simply feel the loss of a lot of ship hulls being pounded, weapons being fired, etc. The stuff that ultimately makes the world of Eve go round. |
ChaeDoc II
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 06:03:00 -
[109] - Quote
joes Bazooka wrote:ChaeDoc II wrote:This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.
This is a sad day for EVE Online. Spoken by someone that couldn't balls up and had to SD his stuffs to save face.
Says the alt. |
Mors Sanctitatis
Death of Virtue
743
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 06:08:00 -
[110] - Quote
ChaeDoc II wrote:joes Bazooka wrote:ChaeDoc II wrote:This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.
This is a sad day for EVE Online. Spoken by someone that couldn't balls up and had to SD his stuffs to save face. Says the alt.
I'm not an alt. And seconded. You're whining because you probably lose nine times out of ten. To those who win, this simply isn't a problem. For everyone else, it's a HUUUUGE problem. Clearly, you're in the latter group.
Intelligence shouldn't be free. -á Mining, reloaded. -á-áADDICTED. |
|
Ambassador Crane
Hellhound Productions
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 06:41:00 -
[111] - Quote
Fon Revedhort wrote: Upon SDing: - killmail is generated - no loot drops - no intel on ship setup is provided - no insurance is payed out solves all the problems
+1 to this.
When you ask most people why they're upset about someone SDing, it's because of the lack of killmail and then the lack of loot. And if you ask most people why they use SD, it's to deny their killers of the loot and then the killmail. This change could upset a lot of people and make the others very happy. In other words, it's a rather one-sided change. By implementing the above recommendation, I'd say it'd be an even balance of give and take from both parties. A balance that I'm sure both would willingly accept.
Only one that won't be easily accepted is the insurance payout. But then everyone was arguing for suicide gankers not to receive insurance payouts. They said it didn't make sense to get paid insurance for purposely getting your ship destroyed. So why should an SD receive an insurance payout?
As for SD timers. My thoughts would be to keep all but the pod as it is. I would surely miss the theatrics of trying to kill a ship before the timer runs out! But while I can see a faster pod SD could be bad (pod yourself back to your station to get another ship and get back in the fight much faster), majority of 'pod express' users is for other logistical purposes.
|
Efraya
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
116
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 07:12:00 -
[112] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vh78T--ZUxY
WSpace; Best space. |
Almox
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 07:43:00 -
[113] - Quote
Zorakk wrote:
Better yet SD should be an AOE explosion that generates a blast wave like the old school AOD DD. Size of blast is based on size of ship. If you got the balls to SD a Super, go for it. Anyone who had aggression when you SD'd gets a KM. And you get one for anyone you wipe out in the blast radius.
Please make this happen, maybe even have a mod for it (I don't mean smart bomb but a SD mod), like a all else's fails take as many as you can with you :)
|
Steelworks II
Anarchist Dawn U N K N O W N
2
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 08:05:00 -
[114] - Quote
exellent change to self-destruct drop more capitals in to the sacrificial fire for the wormhole gods! |
Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
360
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 09:45:00 -
[115] - Quote
Add the following please:
- Don't allow self destruct while in a POS shield. - If entering a POS shield, self destruct timer is cancelled. - Lighting a cyno cancels self destruct.
Also what is the point of self destruct (scuttling) your ship to deny your enemy loot? Also I can't remember, but do you still pay out insurance? If so, self destruct should cancel the insurance payout. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
110
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 10:45:00 -
[116] - Quote
One of the best changes CCP has ever made. Thank you, finally.
Joccob wrote:Yes to killmail. No to loot. Scuttling your ship has a long Naval history in RL. For example the famous Admiral Graf Spee
You do realize you can still loot a scuttled ship right ? |
Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
360
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 10:58:00 -
[117] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:One of the best changes CCP has ever made. Thank you, finally. Joccob wrote:Yes to killmail. No to loot. Scuttling your ship has a long Naval history in RL. For example the famous Admiral Graf Spee You do realize you can still loot a scuttled ship right ? Well at this point if you can't make the tactical decision to deny loot, why don't they just remove self destruct completely from ships? I am all about there being kill mails and such, but with a properly balanced self destruct timer based on ship class/size blowing up everything including loot should remain an option. |
JamesCLK
Lone Star Exploration Lone Star Partners
191
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:27:00 -
[118] - Quote
Heck yes! |
Fon Revedhort
Monks of War DarkSide.
722
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:45:00 -
[119] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:One of the best changes CCP has ever made. Thank you, finally. Joccob wrote:Yes to killmail. No to loot. Scuttling your ship has a long Naval history in RL. For example the famous Admiral Graf Spee You do realize you can still loot a scuttled ship right ? It requires EFFORTS and sometimes it's just not worth it. Just imagine looting a scuttled submarine 14 |
Desert Ice78
Cobra Kai Dojo WHY so Seri0Us
145
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 11:48:00 -
[120] - Quote
Mac Zehn wrote:Please make self destructing ships damage other ships around them tia
Couldn't you at least post with your non-goon alt and not make it completely obvious as to what you are up to?! I am a pod pilot: http://dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/DesertIce/POD.jpg
CCP Zulu: Came expecting a discussion about computer monitors, left confused. |
|
Farsot Muvera
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
Agreed with idea about NO LOOT, its more fair. KM and loot after SD is absolutely not balanced.
The victim may have a lot of fun after SD some PVE fitted fat Tengu. He is ok with losing his ship, but the attacker still cant count on KM. If we talking about really balanced decision, it should be - no km, but loot inside wreck or no loot, but KM. Both things in one time are pointless. If the attacker dont have enough dps to kill the target, its the problem of attacker, not the victim.
Timer for different ships could be different too, but the whole idea about SD before this patch was right. Dont ruin it with not balanced things.
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
110
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 12:49:00 -
[122] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Well at this point if you can't make the tactical decision to deny loot, why don't they just remove self destruct completely from ships? I am all about there being kill mails and such, but with a properly balanced self destruct timer based on ship class/size blowing up everything including loot should remain an option.
it's not really a tactical decision so much as a LOLOL I CAN GRIEF PEOPLE BY DENYING THEM KM AND LOOT I'M SO COOL LOL decision zero effort griefing just to be a ****, don't get me wrong I'm all for griefing but sometimes it's just too easy just like ganking hulks was too easy |
Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
360
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 13:02:00 -
[123] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Marconus Orion wrote:Well at this point if you can't make the tactical decision to deny loot, why don't they just remove self destruct completely from ships? I am all about there being kill mails and such, but with a properly balanced self destruct timer based on ship class/size blowing up everything including loot should remain an option. it's not really a tactical decision so much as a LOLOL I CAN GRIEF PEOPLE BY DENYING THEM KM AND LOOT I'M SO COOL LOL decision zero effort griefing just to be a ****, don't get me wrong I'm all for griefing but sometimes it's just too easy just like ganking hulks was too easy That is your point of view. i don't see it that way at all. Try and think about it from a balancing point of view. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
818
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 13:16:00 -
[124] - Quote
what about adding this rule only for capitals? (but i still think the cargo rule is not needed) a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Possum's Awesome
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 13:31:00 -
[125] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote:For the Inferno 1.2 release, we've modified the self-destruct mechanics a little. These changes are now live on the Singularity test server. You can go and try them for yourself, and leave feedback in this thread.
Loot Drops Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.
Kill Reports Ships that self-destruct whilst under aggression will now generate a regular kill-report. In order for this to happen, the ship must have been recently aggressed, and there must be at least one of the aggressors in space in the system at the time of death. The final-blow will be awarded to the eligible attacker who inflicted the most damage.
Self-destructs that do not involve player aggression will not generate a kill-report
By the way, you may have seen reports of the occasional self-destruct kill-report on Tranquility recently. These were caused by an unrelated defect, and were not intentional. Typically the items list of such mails is incomplete. I'm stating this in-advance, as no doubt someone would have asked about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyqUj3PGHv4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyqUj3PGHv4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyqUj3PGHv4 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eyqUj3PGHv4 Possum's Awesome : Awesome Possum
Unjustly accused and condemned for his crimes. |
Possum's Awesome
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
56
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 13:40:00 -
[126] - Quote
Farsot Muvera wrote:Agreed with idea about NO LOOT, its more fair. KM and loot after SD is absolutely not balanced.
The victim may have a lot of fun after SD some PVE fitted fat Tengu. He is ok with losing his ship, but the attacker still cant count on KM. If we talking about really balanced decision, it should be - no km, but loot inside wreck or no loot, but KM. Both things in one time are pointless. If the attacker dont have enough dps to kill the target, its the problem of attacker, not the victim.
Timer for different ships could be different too, but the whole idea about SD before this patch was right. Dont ruin it with not balanced things.
Seriously?
If the attacker doesn't have the dps to kill the target, the target will live until: The attacker's friends come help, the attacker dies, or the target's friends show up. (subcaps, or if the target can make it to a gate/station and dock)
Log off changes were made for the very same reason.
This isn't about dps to kill the target, this is about not having enough dps to kill the target within 2 minutes, which has always been a ******** move.
No one can argue that KMs for SDs are only needed for KB kiddies, without immediately identifying themselves as people who SD to deny KMs because they're KB kiddies.
I honestly don't care, one way or the other, about loot drops for SD, but there is absolutely nothing "fair" or "unfair" about either option. If you're that obsessive about denying others your loot, fly with an alt to blow up your wreck if you die. Possum's Awesome : Awesome Possum
Unjustly accused and condemned for his crimes. |
ChaeDoc II
Sigillum Militum Xpisti Fatal Ascension
81
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 14:07:00 -
[127] - Quote
Mors Sanctitatis wrote:ChaeDoc II wrote:joes Bazooka wrote:ChaeDoc II wrote:This just goes to show that if you whine and cry like little babies hard enough for a game-breaking mechanic to be installed, sooner or later you'll get your way.
This is a sad day for EVE Online. Spoken by someone that couldn't balls up and had to SD his stuffs to save face. Says the alt. I'm not an alt. And seconded. You're whining because you probably lose nine times out of ten. To those who win, this simply isn't a problem. For everyone else, it's a HUUUUGE problem. Clearly, you're in the latter group.
Seconding with your main, that's just sad. |
Jack Tronic
borkedLabs
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 20:06:00 -
[128] - Quote
Quote: A 5 minute timer on a capital and 10 minutes on a supercapital would give someone an ambitious goal to reach toward by overheating everything in a final attempt to deny loot to the attacking party - whilst still giving some chance for smaller gangs to cut through the EHP in time.
Eject at <25% structure in a capital if you have a damage control fitted. Ship goes pop without killmail and without loot. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
443
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 20:17:00 -
[129] - Quote
I agree with removing loot drop and insurance from self destructed ships. I do think shorter SD times (say, 30s across the board) would be good.
However, the best part has already been done. No more tears over lost kill mails and no more cries of "lol bring moar deeps ******." EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Bent Barrel
54
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 20:32:00 -
[130] - Quote
how about removeing killmails completely ? CCP will get less work (like endless additions and tweaks) and we'll get rid of killmail whores ... |
|
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
443
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 21:03:00 -
[131] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:how about removeing killmails completely ? CCP will get less work (like endless additions and tweaks) and we'll get rid of killmail whores ... Yeah let's remove the only way players and alliances have to track their kills and losses. What a great idea. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Marconus Orion
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
361
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 21:26:00 -
[132] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:how about removeing killmails completely ? CCP will get less work (like endless additions and tweaks) and we'll get rid of killmail whores ... Seriously, get out. This game would be nothing if it was not for the stories. Guess what helps tell the stories? Kill mails reports. |
Komen
Capital Enrichment Services The Night Crew Alliance
124
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 22:02:00 -
[133] - Quote
Good change, CCP. Well done. |
Zoe Athame
Aliastra Gallente Federation
137
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 22:25:00 -
[134] - Quote
Going to agree with loot drops. Explosion by SD or explosion by guns/missiles both leave similar wrecks. |
Octoven
Four Pillar Production Dragehund
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 22:50:00 -
[135] - Quote
I can honestly say, Im not so sure I like this change. I mean if you want to attack someone to get a kill or steal their loot then you should be able to kill them. Really there are two sides to this, the attacker and the defender. So here is a scenario.
Lets assume Im a freighter pilot warping around through low sec like an idiot. All of a sudden a wolf for instance decides to gank me off the gate and station so no retaliation from guns. Its just my freighter vs his wolf. This wolf decides to warp jam me, at this point im left with three options. A. Call and wait for backup, B. Wait for the wolf to very slowly kill my ass, or C. Self-Destruct.
Option A might work, or I may not have anyone online who can help, option B = death, but my attacker can rob my **** when I die. So they get to kill my ship and take the loot. THIS is the option that should exist. Option C means I die to protect my cargo from falling into others hands, THIS is MY tactical advantage.
If you have enough DPS to kill a ship before 2 minutes then you damn well ******* deserve anything and everything that drops including the kill report. However, if you cant kill me in 2 minutes I personally dont feel like you deserve **** for being such a lousy killer. If I SD, I lose **** and the aggressor has made me lose ****. Your taking something that takes work to achieve and making it easy as turning on a turret and it shouldnt be that way. If you want to kill me and take my cargo, KILL ME, LOOT my wreck and EARN your kill report. You just have to do it faster than I can kill myself.
Ultimately, I do not see anything decent coming from this change, your taking something that is fair on both parties and forcing people to lose no matter who or what kills them, and honestly I think its bull ****. |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
446
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 22:59:00 -
[136] - Quote
Octoven wrote:I can honestly say, Im not so sure I like this change. I mean if you want to attack someone to get a kill or steal their loot then you should be able to kill them. Really there are two sides to this, the attacker and the defender. So here is a scenario.
Lets assume Im a freighter pilot warping around through low sec like an idiot. All of a sudden a wolf for instance decides to gank me off the gate and station so no retaliation from guns. Its just my freighter vs his wolf. This wolf decides to warp jam me, at this point im left with three options. A. Call and wait for backup, B. Wait for the wolf to very slowly kill my ass, or C. Self-Destruct.
Option A might work, or I may not have anyone online who can help, option B = death, but my attacker can rob my **** when I die. So they get to kill my ship and take the loot. THIS is the option that should exist. Option C means I die to protect my cargo from falling into others hands, THIS is MY tactical advantage.
If you have enough DPS to kill a ship before 2 minutes then you damn well ******* deserve anything and everything that drops including the kill report. However, if you cant kill me in 2 minutes I personally dont feel like you deserve **** for being such a lousy killer. If I SD, I lose **** and the aggressor has made me lose ****. Your taking something that takes work to achieve and making it easy as turning on a turret and it shouldnt be that way. If you want to kill me and take my cargo, KILL ME, LOOT my wreck and EARN your kill report. You just have to do it faster than I can kill myself.
Ultimately, I do not see anything decent coming from this change, your taking something that is fair on both parties and forcing people to lose no matter who or what kills them, and honestly I think its bull ****. You've clearly never tried to kill a capital ship with a moderate sized fleet. EVE's 4th of July Fireworks |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
167
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 00:23:00 -
[137] - Quote
I really love the change of self destruction, however I always found it fair to deny loot from self destructing a ship...
Will it be a problem to reduce the chance of loot from self destructing ships? or at least have self destruction cause a smart bomb blast or in another way make it beneficial? |
Possum's Awesome
Foxtrot Uniform Charlie Kilo
57
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 09:41:00 -
[138] - Quote
Bent Barrel wrote:how about removeing killmails completely ? CCP will get less work (like endless additions and tweaks) and we'll get rid of killmail whores ...
Yes, because I want to turn Tranquility into Serenity.... seriously though?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhkNLHictW8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhkNLHictW8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhkNLHictW8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhkNLHictW8
If you don't get the reference, Serenity (China server) is mostly forum pvp because they have no API, no kill reports, so its all e-bushido/bragging on the forums. Possum's Awesome : Awesome Possum
Unjustly accused and condemned for his crimes. |
Chitsa Jason
DEEP-SPACE CO-OP LTD Exhale.
128
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 12:00:00 -
[139] - Quote
Great change especially for wormhole people. Now if we could get no SD in POSes :) |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
754
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 12:26:00 -
[140] - Quote
Kill mails are fine, as long as there's a note attached that says "self-destruction" or something. Dropping loot is not fine. It eliminates the whole tactical element of self-destructing. That element is to deny the enemy materiel and information. You scuttle your boat so that the enemy can't have those things. And no, self-destructing doesn't, and shouldn't, cause similar damage levels that incoming firepower does. You're destroying something from within, meaning that you can go after the most vulnerable, unprotected things.
Personally, I've only self-destructed during a fight two or three times in my entire decade here. I've had it done to me dozens of times, including shiny mission boats and Orcas. Yet I still feel that this game mechanic should remain, because without it, the game would be more homogenous. (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) |
|
Austneal
Four Pillar Production Dragehund
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 15:11:00 -
[141] - Quote
I was jumped by ~10 man recon gang in my WH tengu once. I was able to tank / shoot / drive them off long enough for my 2 minute self destruct timer to go off, and deny the bastards my loot. (They also lost a recon trying to keep tackle while the sleepers pounded on him ^-^)
Another time my freighter came under attack from corp killers. I was able to get another character in a logi and rep him long enough for the self destruct timer to go off, thus denying them everything I was hauling + a killmail.
These changes make self destructing completely useless, and only adds to the "Omg I must have a killmail" attitude of pvp. I've had several targets self destruct on me, and it does get a tad annoying if they succeed. But honestly, if they can hold out that long against me, then they deserve the right of denying me a killmail.
What's the point of self destruct now? |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
167
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 15:38:00 -
[142] - Quote
killmails for some reason likely creates more reason for pvp than anything else... Getting killmails for people self destructing is nice and fair
Taking away the possibility to deny loot for the enemy however is wrong - I expect a self destruct mechanism to serve a purpose like this and if CCP want to give people a better chance for people to get their hands on such loot they should make the self destruct timer longer... Like 3 minutes instead of 2 or longer if necesary
Plz make this balanced and not just tip the advantage to agressors side instead of the self destructor :-)
Pinky |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
339
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 16:47:00 -
[143] - Quote
Why even have SD other than for pod expressing? With these changes ship SD can now be completely removed from the game. |
Farsot Muvera
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 17:17:00 -
[144] - Quote
Quote:Seriously?
If the attacker doesn't have the dps to kill the target, the target will live until: The attacker's friends come help, the attacker dies, or the target's friends show up. (subcaps, or if the target can make it to a gate/station and dock)
PVE passive tengu got caught by solo hunter. Solo hunter cant finish this ship nor for 2, nor for 5, nor for 10 minutes and dont have any support behind. Have seen same situation with my friend, beeing in covert ops. Pirate tryed to finish tengu more than 15 min, then Tengu SD, 2 more minutes and victim warped away. Shield never was less than 60%. Thats mean no way to get this kill. The only person who should get kill like that is...the victim. He is top-damager.
Ok, next possibility. You in nul (or WH), want to SD, but got tackled. Ok, lets imagine you was cool enough to break the distance and warped away. Then SD after some time, but...after the new SD-mechanics this failed tackler still can count on km, because SD was in same system ( where you was engaged). The main question - what for? For fail tackling? |
Demolishar
United Aggression
282
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 18:13:00 -
[145] - Quote
I support these changes. As it stood SD just brought another reason to bring overwhelming firepower to the table. Which, just for the record, is a bad thing. |
Apolyon I
Shadow of ISW
93
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 19:25:00 -
[146] - Quote
Farsot Muvera wrote:Quote:Seriously?
If the attacker doesn't have the dps to kill the target, the target will live until: The attacker's friends come help, the attacker dies, or the target's friends show up. (subcaps, or if the target can make it to a gate/station and dock) PVE passive tengu got caught by solo hunter. Solo hunter cant finish this ship nor for 2, nor for 5, nor for 10 minutes and dont have any support behind. Have seen same situation with my friend, beeing in covert ops. Pirate tryed to finish tengu more than 15 min, then Tengu SD, 2 more minutes and victim warped away. Shield never was less than 60%. Thats mean no way to get this kill. The only person who should get kill like that is...the victim. He is top-damager. Ok, next possibility. You in nul (or WH), want to SD, but got tackled. Ok, lets imagine you was cool enough to break the distance and warped away. Then SD after some time, but...after the new SD-mechanics this failed tackler still can count on km, because SD was in same system ( where you was engaged). The main question - what for? For fail tackling? if the tengu can tank it, tengu should shoot back, use your brain!!!
2nd situation, warp around, make safe and wait until the timer is out.
so far the only reason CCP release this change is because people are too afraid of loss mail |
Risingson
20
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 22:06:00 -
[147] - Quote
i think self-desctructed ships should not drop loot. increase timers on bigger ships. kill it in time to get loot. it should generate killmails though but the final blow should go to the killed ship's pilot. Eveeye.com-á- New Eden Bordcomputer Systems |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
111
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 22:32:00 -
[148] - Quote
there's no reason victims should be able to deny loot - you lost the fight, deal with it self destructing wasn't "tactical" it was just a petty act of spite against someone you lost to
does this mean there's no point in self destructing ? most of the time yes, which is as it should be, it was always a pathetic game mechanic |
Rall Mekin
Ganked And T Bagged
11
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 00:16:00 -
[149] - Quote
So. Much. Win. |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
185
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 03:30:00 -
[150] - Quote
As an industrialist I would like the option to have a module I can install in my ship that I can activate to self destruct. to destroy my cargo so that the evil pirate won't get any reward for killing me especially if I pay a randsome
The module may take 30 seconds to activate and can be disabled if there is no cap and takes up a low slot This would only destroy the cargo and would not effect the modules of the ship.
Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
|
Maraner
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
205
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 04:59:00 -
[151] - Quote
I too have lost a lot of carrier kill mails over the years with people that we have caught self destructing on us. HATED not getting the kill mails, but to be honest if you push the big red button on the old core overload thingee (see Alien self destruct sequence) then to be honest there should be no loot.
You've overloaded your ships core to produce a deliberate nuke. Thats fine I'm good with it, but I'd suggest that from now on if you want to self destruct - fine, it will stop loot from dropping but you get podded at the same time.
Just a suggestion, either way delighted to see CCP do this but this would give self destruct a meaning (and a further penalty).
|
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:47:00 -
[152] - Quote
Another fail change!!!
Tell me dear CCP developers. What boots it to self destruct after this crap changes?
The pilots blow up their own ship and modules and the modules is dropped ? LOL Why self destructing the military their ships/technologies when they must left behind their combat tools ??? Because they dont want to give them to the enemies! Another bullsh*t change from CCP because the killmailwhores cried so many times.
The pilots can self destruct their ships for own ISK sink ? After this change the self destruct is pointless. Now we got a self destruct without sense. Why will have this game self destruct after this change ? For fun selfdestuction ??? |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:58:00 -
[153] - Quote
Maraner wrote:I too have lost a lot of carrier kill mails over the years with people that we have caught self destructing on us. HATED not getting the kill mails, but to be honest if you push the big red button on the old core overload thingee (see Alien self destruct sequence) then to be honest there should be no loot.
You've overloaded your ships core to produce a deliberate nuke. Thats fine I'm good with it, but I'd suggest that from now on if you want to self destruct - fine, it will stop loot from dropping but you get podded at the same time.
Just a suggestion, either way delighted to see CCP do this but this would give self destruct a meaning (and a further penalty).
+1
At the risk of sounding like I'm banging a drum I really feel like there has to be some gameplay difference between someone self-destructing and being blown up. As it is with these changes CCP might as well just rename the self-destruct menu option to "I'm bored now" or "I'm stuck in WH space" and make the timer 10 seconds, since the outcome will be identical whether you SD or not. The delay becomes irrelevant with these changes.
Producing kill reports for self-destructs imo fixes 99.9% of the problem - I honestly don't feel like most people in these circumstances care about the loot, or at least it is a secondary concern.
Scuttling ones ship has long been a feature in battle and it is a perfectly valid and legitimate way of denying your enemy intel. Whilst this doesn't directly translate to Eve (a kill report will tell your enemies everything you had fitted, and it's not like you're carrying blueprints for an Enigma machine or something) the idea that a victim has an last act of defiance option is a good one imo. I've had capitals self-destruct on me in wormholes - arguably it's a much bigger problem there than elsewhere - and whilst it has been annoying at the time not to get a killmail I don't have a problem with a victim having the option of giving us the finger by self-destructing and denying us something.
I really hope CCP reconsider the idea that SDs drop loot in exactly the same way normal ship explosions do. It should imo drop no modules with a chance to drop cargo items & drones - i.e. as it is currently. |
Challu
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:33:00 -
[154] - Quote
For what it's worth, KMs from SDs are great, but please don't let loot drop. As folks have mentioned already, when you rig your ships, you presumably do it so that all of it destroyed. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 08:58:00 -
[155] - Quote
maybe if you actually had to rig them it would be reasonable, but you don't and letting you choose to destroy all your modules and cargo is and always has been stupid |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
140
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:14:00 -
[156] - Quote
What I don`t get is the arguement about intel denial ?
What intel ? That your ship was retardedly fitted ? Intel for possible recruits who now see how much your corp fails at useing d-scan in WH space ?
I-¦m fine with removing the loot drop part but then also remove insurance payout. Also SDing inside a POS should not work. |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
991
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:16:00 -
[157] - Quote
You were supposed to remove insurance payouts and the option to SD inside a POS forcefield, not add loot drops.
But the killmail part is pure win. Shiva Furnace - now recruiting solid pilots! |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 09:50:00 -
[158] - Quote
SD'ing inside a POS is a bit of a wormhole-centric thing really isn't it? A scorched earth policy is imo a valid response to being ****-caged with no hope of escape. Maybe it's just me but I feel a little uncomfortable at the idea that people are so desperate for trophies that they would stop a group of people giving up in defiance. Then again "Eve is harsh", etc.
Catching something in space though is perfectly valid - they weren't paying attention, were unlucky or whatever. |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 10:25:00 -
[159] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:a petty act of spite To be fair, this is why you shoot stuff in this game in the first place.
+1 to no loot drop and add AOE damage on self-destruct that scales with ship type. A cruiser might kill pods inside ~5-10km and a Titan should blow up all untanked cruisers on grid, sort the rest accordingly. |
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
311
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:16:00 -
[160] - Quote
Oh Hi There wrote:
You should get a killmail. You should NOT get loot.
+1 |
|
GeeShizzle MacCloud
160
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 11:20:00 -
[161] - Quote
CCP Masterplan wrote: Loot Drops Ships that self-destruct will now drop loot in their wreck. This follows the regular chance-based loot-drop mechanics for items fitted to the ship and carried in the cargo hold.
not a fan of... so why would anyone SD now? other than pod express? whole intention of SD in EVERY sci-fi themed fiction is to destroy he tech on/that-makes-up the ship being SD'd. well done CCP for breaking a mechanic that did serve a purpose.
CCP Masterplan wrote: Kill Reports Ships that self-destruct whilst under aggression will now generate a regular kill-report. In order for this to happen, the ship must have been recently aggressed, and there must be at least one of the aggressors in space in the system at the time of death. The final-blow will be awarded to the eligible attacker who inflicted the most damage.
Self-destructs that do not involve player aggression will not generate a kill-report
VERY VERY VERY much a fan of, and im glad its finally been fixed... if u SD u should generate a KM, and i like the fact you guys have made only SD's with aggression generate a kill report.
i would like to see (as has been suggested on this thread) for differing sized ships to have differing length of SD timers. The whole idea of an SD timer in Science Fiction is to allow time for the crew to get to escape pods. Would be cool to see some escape pod jettisons from a ship set to SD. even if its just particle effects. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
247
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 12:03:00 -
[162] - Quote
While I am not a pvp'er, I fully support this change.
Its about time.
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |
Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
100
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 13:52:00 -
[163] - Quote
I would also like to see the kill report/km flag if a kill was a SD |
Demolishar
United Aggression
290
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 13:56:00 -
[164] - Quote
If loot drops are removed, then insurance payout on self destruct must be removed - for economic reasons. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 14:26:00 -
[165] - Quote
Sounds fair. |
AetomHaert Mother
Star Frontiers THORN Alliance
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 17:59:00 -
[166] - Quote
In support of good behavior, Good show sirs
Also, quoting Riverini from his EN24 post :
"Besides a big banner which says GÇ£COWARDGÇ¥ I believe there is nothing more we could ask to CCP Masterplan to implement. ^__^"
This please. |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 21:32:00 -
[167] - Quote
AetomHaert Mother wrote:In support of good behavior, Good show sirsAlso, quoting Riverini from his EN24 post : "Besides a big banner which says GÇ£COWARDGÇ¥ I believe there is nothing more we could ask to CCP Masterplan to implement. ^__^" This please.
-1 and Riverini its a f a g |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
443
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 01:28:00 -
[168] - Quote
Good change.
Remove Insurance payout as well.
|
StacheMaster
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 02:31:00 -
[169] - Quote
As Bill McNeil would say
Delicious |
Senn Denroth
Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 04:27:00 -
[170] - Quote
Having been in a lot of capital WH fights where carriers/dreads have self destructed as soon as we've landed on grid I can say it's very frustrating to not have anything to show for it. Basically the thought process goes along like that: they realise that they're ****ed up, they don't even try to fight or tank the damage, so they self destruct to avoid the whole thing all-together. Ultimately they do pay for it with their ships but no party has anything to show for it. Having a killmail that actually shows the fight occured is a very welcome change indeed.
The loot dropping idea however ... doesn't make a lot of sense at all as the self destruction of a ship means the ship is getting destroyed from the inside out (assuming that the charges have been placed properly, lol).
I'm with Maldoror's opinion on this issue, make self destruction timers increase for capital ships, 5 minutes would be better I think, 10 for supercaps maybe .. this would allow enough time to try and burn through the tank on the capital ships, it would make the fights a hell of a lot more thrilling trying to get those ships killed before they explode. It would also keep the bears happy that all their loot doesn't get spilled on to the field due to their incompetence. There would still be either a killmail or a self destruct mail showing the fight, so the killing party would be happy, and a bonus if they get the ship burnt down in time.
Hopefully one day we can have fights recorded even more accurately and to the fullest extent, with even neutral logistics ships showing up on killmails in some form or another.... |
|
Dorn Val
Probe Patrol Project Wildfire
49
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 05:49:00 -
[171] - Quote
Thanks for listening to your player base CCP -excellent change!!! Just like there is no I in Team there is no Fair in Eve... |
Xorv
Questionable Acquisitions
443
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 06:07:00 -
[172] - Quote
Senn Denroth wrote:The loot dropping idea however ... doesn't make a lot of sense at all as the self destruction of a ship means the ship is getting destroyed from the inside out (assuming that the charges have been placed properly, lol).
If they were to remove the loot dropping I think, ship capture should be added in.
* 5 seconds after a player activates SD they're character's pod ejects from the ship and the countdown begins. * Now any nearby ship with a code breaker mod fitted and appropriate hacking skill can attempt to deactivate the self destruct, and if successful pass ownership of the ship to themselves.
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 06:12:00 -
[173] - Quote
Untouchable Heart wrote:Another fail change!!!
Tell me dear CCP developers. What boots it to self destruct after this crap changes?
The pilots blow up their own ship and modules and the modules is dropped ? LOL Why self destructing the military their ships/technologies when they must left behind their combat tools ??? Because they dont want to give them to the enemies! Another bullsh*t change from CCP because the killmailwhores cried so many times.
The pilots can self destruct their ships for own ISK sink ? After this change the self destruct is pointless. Now we got a self destruct without sense. Why will have this game self destruct after this change ? For fun selfdestuction ???
This. |
Mr Bigwinky
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
310
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 07:03:00 -
[174] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:Untouchable Heart wrote:Another fail change!!!
Tell me dear CCP developers. What boots it to self destruct after this crap changes?
The pilots blow up their own ship and modules and the modules is dropped ? LOL Why self destructing the military their ships/technologies when they must left behind their combat tools ??? Because they dont want to give them to the enemies! Another bullsh*t change from CCP because the killmailwhores cried so many times.
The pilots can self destruct their ships for own ISK sink ? After this change the self destruct is pointless. Now we got a self destruct without sense. Why will have this game self destruct after this change ? For fun selfdestuction ??? This. I just don't understand why I get so erect when I hear you cry.
Best mechanic change in a long while! Welcome to EVE online, here's your rubix cube, go F*** yourself GÖÑ |
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
991
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 07:34:00 -
[175] - Quote
Durzel wrote:SD'ing inside a POS is a bit of a wormhole-centric thing really isn't it? A scorched earth policy is imo a valid response to being ****-caged with no hope of escape. Maybe it's just me but I feel a little uncomfortable at the idea that people are so desperate for trophies that they would stop a group of people giving up in defiance. Then again "Eve is harsh", etc.
Catching something in space though is perfectly valid - they weren't paying attention, were unlucky or whatever.
Well, I'd guess it's something that happens in w-space more than elsewhere, but is that an argument for or against preventing SD inside a POS?
To me, a defiant way to give up would be to fly out and put up a fight, try to take at least one enemy down. You know, show a bit of dignity.
Anyway, just removing insurance payout would probably make people less eager to blow up their own ships without a fight. Shiva Furnace - now recruiting solid pilots! |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
238
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 07:36:00 -
[176] - Quote
Why?
Why in hell do you cater so overtly to the very small (but insanely loud(mouthed)) group of players called griefers/gankers?
I would/could be fine with mails being generated or loot dropping, but not both. If this is implemented then there is no reason to keep self-destruct as a mechanism at all and it can be removed outright ... what use is there for SD other than as a way for a loser to flip a dps anaemic winner the bird?
So my questions are: - If you are taking away the reasons for 99.9% (probably higher, but 'meh' ) of SD's in game then why maintain the "feature" at all? - How do you plan on addressing the numerous Eve loathing inducing incidents that will make people look elsewhere for enjoyment that arises from this change as people caught by "barely enough dps to break a glass" get the choice between SD'ing to save time or sit watching red bars move to waste anothers time (being the only way to spite a ganker after change)?
Incredibly stupid idea. Worse than what was done to FW .. and if you have read my rants and raves over the years, coming from me that is quite bad. To par with CCP performance of late though, you have become too damn eager to please the forum/emo ragers after the Jita debacle that you are missing the big picture. |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 07:38:00 -
[177] - Quote
Mr Bigwinky wrote:Ribikoka wrote:Untouchable Heart wrote:Another fail change!!!
Tell me dear CCP developers. What boots it to self destruct after this crap changes?
The pilots blow up their own ship and modules and the modules is dropped ? LOL Why self destructing the military their ships/technologies when they must left behind their combat tools ??? Because they dont want to give them to the enemies! Another bullsh*t change from CCP because the killmailwhores cried so many times.
The pilots can self destruct their ships for own ISK sink ? After this change the self destruct is pointless. Now we got a self destruct without sense. Why will have this game self destruct after this change ? For fun selfdestuction ??? This. I just don't understand why I get so erect when I hear you cry. Best mechanic change in a long while! Cry ? Just you cried here. This is the worsen change in a long while, this is make SD to nonsense, so you just HTFU. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
175
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 10:09:00 -
[178] - Quote
I'd have been fine with SD destroying loot - it'd make sense that if you designed self destruct mechanics into your spaceship you'd set it up to destroy all the sensitive or important items. But at the same time I won't complain over more free stuff.
Finally having killmails for it is a wonderful thing though. You cannot hide your terribleness from the universe any more. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
175
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 10:27:00 -
[179] - Quote
Unfortunately all this will do is make more people move towards using that ejecting exploit. Except for the really terrible ones I guess, they're so bad they won't know how to do it. Or they'll panic and do it wrong and I end up with a free capital (repairs needed of course).
Also rib, please refrain from bigotry and insults. I'm sure you're capable of discussing this change without resorting to such disgusting behaviour, but if you can't feel free to self destruct your posts. Then we can look at the killmail and see how many officer tear launchers you have fitted. |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
142
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 11:45:00 -
[180] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:
Cry ? Just you cried here. This is the worsen change in a long while, this is make SD to nonsense, so you just HTFU.
Sadly you hide behind an NPC alt so no one can monitor your terrible losses after the change is live. Thats maybe also the reason you crying so loud against it, performance visibility on a personal/corp level is harsh, isnt it ? No longer dump n00bs get tricked to join as tax slaves your sad corporation that sells themself as PVP powahouse, defending your home against any threat while infact all you do is: hit the SD button as soon as something apears on d-scan. |
|
Roime
Shiva Furnace Dead On Arrival Alliance
991
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 12:31:00 -
[181] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Why?
Why in hell do you cater so overtly to the very small (but insanely loud(mouthed)) group of players called griefers/gankers?
What makes you think that this has anything to do with griefing or ganking?
Shiva Furnace - now recruiting solid pilots! |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
176
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 12:50:00 -
[182] - Quote
Roime wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Why?
Why in hell do you cater so overtly to the very small (but insanely loud(mouthed)) group of players called griefers/gankers?
What makes you think that this has anything to do with griefing or ganking?
There's a certain type of player who think that any mechanic they don't like is 'griefing'. The majority of players realise this was an issue with reports of the events in a battle being a bit wonky because of a very old mechanic, but good luck getting these fools to understand that.
Repeat after me, folks: Blowing up your ship is not griefing. It is not griefing for the game to record/make visible your loss.
|
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
238
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 13:11:00 -
[183] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Roime wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Why?
Why in hell do you cater so overtly to the very small (but insanely loud(mouthed)) group of players called griefers/gankers?
What makes you think that this has anything to do with griefing or ganking? There's a certain type of player who think that any mechanic they don't like is 'griefing'. The majority of players realise this was an issue with reports of the events in a battle being a bit wonky because of a very old mechanic, but good luck getting these fools to understand that. Repeat after me, folks: Blowing up your ship is not griefing. It is not griefing for the game to record/make visible your loss. Quite true, but think about it .. when/where do you encounter the SD, I bet it is not in what we like to call the 'Good Fight' .. which just happens to leave griefs and ganks. There is just no reason to press that button except when all possibilities of/options for survival has been exhausted. If you can blow up my ship then more power to you, but if you can't even be bothered to bring a tool big enough to do it before I fall asleep then I want the option of spitting in your face .. that is what they are taking away. Scuttling to avoid capture of materials and valuables has been used since mankind first discovered buoyancy and took to the sea to wage war (ie. quite a while).
As I said, I am more than on board with it generating a mail or loot .. but it should not do both or the entire feature just makes no sense and should be removed outright (or given a 0-5s timer), doubly so if blobs are not working as intended .. because Goddess forbid that blob monkey's should have a grain of sand in their sandals, much better to stick rest of Eve's lower legs in cement!!!!!!!!!
Answer the question of why the mechanic should even be in game without the Spit-in-face function .. it adds absolutely nothing and offers nothing for the player other than the ability to save a bit of time before undocking in a new ship .. something that can be just easily accomplished by ejecting. Sure, ejecting leaves the whole ship in the hands of the anaemic dps aggressor, but a loss is a loss and it doesn't really matter to a mugging victim if a mugger only takes half the cash in his wallet before burning it or empties it proper like.
Suggested change just makes no sense. |
Mikeyeve
Team Lang
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 13:19:00 -
[184] - Quote
At last, thank you CCP! |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
176
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 13:57:00 -
[185] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Roime wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Why?
Why in hell do you cater so overtly to the very small (but insanely loud(mouthed)) group of players called griefers/gankers?
What makes you think that this has anything to do with griefing or ganking? There's a certain type of player who think that any mechanic they don't like is 'griefing'. The majority of players realise this was an issue with reports of the events in a battle being a bit wonky because of a very old mechanic, but good luck getting these fools to understand that. Repeat after me, folks: Blowing up your ship is not griefing. It is not griefing for the game to record/make visible your loss. Quite true, but think about it .. when/where do you encounter the SD, I bet it is not in what we like to call the 'Good Fight' .. which just happens to leave griefs and ganks. There is just no reason to press that button except when all possibilities of/options for survival has been exhausted. If you can blow up my ship then more power to you, but if you can't even be bothered to bring a tool big enough to do it before I fall asleep then I want the option of spitting in your face .. that is what they are taking away. Scuttling to avoid capture of materials and valuables has been used since mankind first discovered buoyancy and took to the sea to wage war (ie. quite a while). As I said, I am more than on board with it generating a mail or loot .. but it should not do both or the entire feature just makes no sense and should be removed outright (or given a 0-5s timer), doubly so if blobs are not working as intended .. because Goddess forbid that blob monkey's should have a grain of sand in their sandals, much better to stick rest of Eve's lower legs in cement!!!!!!!!! Answer the question of why the mechanic should even be in game without the Spit-in-face function .. it adds absolutely nothing and offers nothing for the player other than the ability to save a bit of time before undocking in a new ship .. something that can be just easily accomplished by ejecting. Sure, ejecting leaves the whole ship in the hands of the anaemic dps aggressor, but a loss is a loss and it doesn't really matter to a mugging victim if a mugger only takes half the cash in his wallet before burning it or empties it proper like. Suggested change just makes no sense.
Well, even before considering the possibility of denying loot (which I'd be fine with), self destructing still allows for players to get out of certain places or situations. Stuck in a wormhole? SD. Someone pointed you and wont let you go (but wont kill you) until you pay a ransom? SD. Etc.
As for "but if you can't even be bothered to bring a tool big enough to do it" ... this isn't quite reasonable. For a start, the timer is a static two minutes, but the ehp of ships ramps up like crazy with capitals and supers. It's not that someone didn't have a force appropriate to kill the ship, it's just the fact that despite the ships survivability being scaled up, and even the aggressors forces being scaled up to overcome it... the effort/time/whatever for it to pop itself didn't scale at all. That was a bit silly. Also it's more of a problem in wormhole space where mass limits may prevent you bringing a force big enough to kill (potentially multiple) capitals, let alone wipe them out in under 120 seconds. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 14:25:00 -
[186] - Quote
Veshta you obviously don't like blobbing and yet you want people to be able to "scuttle" their ship if their opponent doesn't blob enough ? (i can only assume you mean blobbing when you say griefs and ganks) You'll get more good fights if people don't have to bring overwhelming force to be able to get loot/killmail.
The change Masterplan is making is perfect because the old mechanic was idiotic and only kept in place because of whiney carebears who wanted to be able to grief the people who defeated them. (you can call it spit-in-the-face if you want)
But hey write off my opinion as just another insanely loudmouthed griefer/ganker, and not that of someone who has been active in this game since beta. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
178
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 15:55:00 -
[187] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Veshta you obviously don't like blobbing and yet you want people to be able to "scuttle" their ship if their opponent doesn't blob enough ? (i can only assume you mean blobbing when you say griefs and ganks) You'll get more good fights if people don't have to bring overwhelming force to be able to get loot/killmail.
The change Masterplan is making is perfect because the old mechanic was idiotic and only kept in place because of whiney carebears who wanted to be able to grief the people who defeated them. (you can call it spit-in-the-face if you want)
But hey write off my opinion as just another insanely loudmouthed griefer/ganker, and not that of someone who has been active in this game since beta.
PS; as a roleplayer do you honestly think it's reasonable for every single ship in eve to have explosives rigged up everywhere that'll do more damage than any external attack could ? That's a colossal waste of resources, and a huge stupid risk to the safety of ship and crew.
Yes, that is entirely reasonable. Who WOULDN'T want to have their spaceship packed to the rafters with dangerous explosives and other such materials. Risk to the crew? It's motivation. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:03:00 -
[188] - Quote
damn crazy capsuleers :( i can't really argue with that except to say you should have to make those changes yourself (fit a rig or something) |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:40:00 -
[189] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Roime wrote:Veshta Yoshida wrote:Why?
Why in hell do you cater so overtly to the very small (but insanely loud(mouthed)) group of players called griefers/gankers?
What makes you think that this has anything to do with griefing or ganking? There's a certain type of player who think that any mechanic they don't like is 'griefing'. The majority of players realise this was an issue with reports of the events in a battle being a bit wonky because of a very old mechanic, but good luck getting these fools to understand that. Repeat after me, folks: Blowing up your ship is not griefing. It is not griefing for the game to record/make visible your loss. Quite true, but think about it .. when/where do you encounter the SD, I bet it is not in what we like to call the 'Good Fight' .. which just happens to leave griefs and ganks. There is just no reason to press that button except when all possibilities of/options for survival has been exhausted. If you can blow up my ship then more power to you, but if you can't even be bothered to bring a tool big enough to do it before I fall asleep then I want the option of spitting in your face .. that is what they are taking away. Scuttling to avoid capture of materials and valuables has been used since mankind first discovered buoyancy and took to the sea to wage war (ie. quite a while). As I said, I am more than on board with it generating a mail or loot .. but it should not do both or the entire feature just makes no sense and should be removed outright (or given a 0-5s timer), doubly so if blobs are not working as intended .. because Goddess forbid that blob monkey's should have a grain of sand in their sandals, much better to stick rest of Eve's lower legs in cement!!!!!!!!! Answer the question of why the mechanic should even be in game without the Spit-in-face function .. it adds absolutely nothing and offers nothing for the player other than the ability to save a bit of time before undocking in a new ship .. something that can be just easily accomplished by ejecting. Sure, ejecting leaves the whole ship in the hands of the anaemic dps aggressor, but a loss is a loss and it doesn't really matter to a mugging victim if a mugger only takes half the cash in his wallet before burning it or empties it proper like. Suggested change just makes no sense.
True, just gunslinger troll dont understand anything from this changes. After this changes the SD function will be an useless feature which is nonsense and loot drops from a ship a fail when a player destruct his ship and his modules because he dont want to give them to enemy hands.
|
DTson Gauur
Underground-Operators
4
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:41:00 -
[190] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote: PS; as a roleplayer do you honestly think it's reasonable for every single ship in eve to have explosives rigged up everywhere that'll do more damage than any external attack could ? That's a colossal waste of resources, and a huge stupid risk to the safety of ship and crew.
You really don't need explosives, just read the lore on what the powerplants on ships are. Cut the safeties (override them) and pretty soon you'll have a nice big boom that leaves just an expanding cloud of gas and minute particles, nothing even remotely intact left.
And yes, I consider this change to be absolute bollocks, why shouldn't I be able to deny my opponents the killmail and loot?
|
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:45:00 -
[191] - Quote
awww does ccp disagree with you despite you being such an internets spaceships engine expert maybe you should cry about it to your mommy |
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:49:00 -
[192] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:awww does ccp disagree with you despite you being such an internets spaceships engine expert maybe you should cry about it to your mommy
Or just some PL guys cried too mutch to CCP momm, because the smart capital pilots selfdestructed their own ship before some PL blobber got a killmail. :P
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:50:00 -
[193] - Quote
you're so angry you can't spell :( |
Lucas Quaan
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
34
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:12:00 -
[194] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:But hey write off my opinion as just another insanely loudmouthed griefer/ganker, and not that of someone who has been active in this game since beta. I think you have it backwards here. The people self-destructing are the ones griefing and you are crying about it. Despite being the bitter-vet thing to do, it's not very piratey of you. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 17:58:00 -
[195] - Quote
He was lumping anyone who likes the change under insanely loudmouthed griefer/ganker, I myself wouldn't claim to be a griefer since I'm a nice guy really !
Nor a pirate tbh since I haven't ransomed anybody in ages, and I'll cry about people self-destructing if I want to so there. :( |
Denidil
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
364
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 19:04:00 -
[196] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
PS; as a roleplayer do you honestly think it's reasonable for every single ship in eve to have explosives rigged up everywhere that'll do more damage than any external attack could ? That's a colossal waste of resources, and a huge stupid risk to the safety of ship and crew.
you just failed physics tyrrax. badly. If you don't see a problem in 0.0 eroding into two big super-coalitions and a few hangers on in areas nobody cares about.. then you don't have brains. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 20:03:00 -
[197] - Quote
Denidil wrote:Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:
PS; as a roleplayer do you honestly think it's reasonable for every single ship in eve to have explosives rigged up everywhere that'll do more damage than any external attack could ? That's a colossal waste of resources, and a huge stupid risk to the safety of ship and crew.
you just failed physics tyrrax. badly.
no I didn't , and you're an idiot if you think you know how internets spaceships self-destruct physics work and how it makes perfect sense for them to vaporize everything aboard without possibility of salvage while every other cause of spaceship death in the eve universe does not |
Veshta Yoshida
PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
239
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 20:08:00 -
[198] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Veshta you obviously don't like blobbing and yet you want people to be able to "scuttle" their ship if their opponent doesn't blob enough ? (i can only assume you mean blobbing when you say griefs and ganks) You'll get more good fights if people don't have to bring overwhelming force to be able to get loot/killmail. Blobs mainly stem from CCPs insistence on having most game altering mechanics revolve around EHP grinds, started back when they introduced POS and have been expanded upon to this day with the biggest blob inducer being supers. Another major contributor to blobs has been the population increase, we are flock animals (or whatever the mammalian equivalent is) through and through after all .. strength in numbers is as old as life itself so blobs will never be gone from Eve until we start the inevitable decline. Griefs and Ganks include blobs, but also for example the frigate that can hold a ratting BS or even a super perpetually with logoffski having been nerfed recently .. it basically means any lop-sided fight which does not necessarily mean a blob. Players (myself included at times), as much as we don't want to admit it, are not generally looking for a good fight but a win at whatever cost. That is why we bring bling, friends and do our utmost to manipulate the environment in our favour (Grid Fu .. never did get the hang of that one ) ..
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:The change Masterplan is making is perfect because the old mechanic was idiotic and only kept in place because of whiney carebears who wanted to be able to grief the people who defeated them. (you can call it spit-in-the-face if you want) Current system is pretty borked and it has been an ongoing topic for as long as I can remember, but changes suggested makes the existence of the SD button itself moot. What possible purpose would anyone ever have for pushing it when it goes live .. only thing it will do is save a bit of time before reship .. no point in making those changes when almost the exact same can be achieved by simply removing the code altogether.
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:But hey write off my opinion as just another insanely loudmouthed griefer/ganker, and not that of someone who has been active in this game since beta. You actually stayed through the beta .. couldn't stand it myself .. like playing a MUD version of Skyrim I never discount any opinion if it is valid and properly presented, rarely are on the hot topics such as SD, griefing/ganking and my darling FW though .. very often degenerate into slurs, personal attacks and alt spam.
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:PS; as a roleplayer do you honestly think it's reasonable for every single ship in eve to have explosives rigged up everywhere that'll do more damage than any external attack could ? That's a colossal waste of resources, and a huge stupid risk to the safety of ship and crew. Every single ship, no. Every ship designed for combat, yes. We already see that today with SD mechanism in most of the high-tech junk being launched against the various cave dwelling (relatively) nations as the wars for control of resources escalates. Besides, we are talking spaceship with what is presumably fusion or anti-matter reactors .. read up on the damage done by our comparatively primitive fission reactors when they fizzle unintentionally and consider that a deliberate meltdown/destruction will probably be magnitudes worse (cruisers in Eve have approximately the same (slightly lower) output as a modern day nuke plant by the way). |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
178
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 20:08:00 -
[199] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote: True, just gunslinger troll dont understand anything from this changes. After this changes the SD function will be an useless feature which is nonsense and loot drops from a ship a fail when a player destruct his ship and his modules because he dont want to give them to enemy hands.
I do believe I gave very clear examples of where self destructing is still a useful action. I even said I personally wouldn't mind if loot DIDN'T drop.
So I don't know why you're screaming that I'm a troll. Had to self destruct one too many capitals, have you? Don't want the rest of EVE to know you lost a ship because of an embarrassing lolfit or something? |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 21:18:00 -
[200] - Quote
Veshta Yoshida wrote:Every single ship, no. Every ship designed for combat, yes. We already see that today with SD mechanism in most of the high-tech junk being launched against the various cave dwelling (relatively) nations as the wars for control of resources escalates. Besides, we are talking spaceship with what is presumably fusion or anti-matter reactors .. read up on the damage done by our comparatively primitive fission reactors when they fizzle unintentionally and consider that a deliberate meltdown/destruction will probably be magnitudes worse (cruisers in Eve have approximately the same (slightly lower) output as a modern day nuke plant by the way).
Pretty sure ships in eve are designed to resist that kind of thing , they have defences, resistances etc - a doomsday blasting your dreadnaught to bits still leaves half your modules intact , I don't see any reason to think your ship's engines blowing up would have a greater effect ( if that's even how eve self-destruct is supposed to work )
The ability to destroy your cargo and modules can hardly be a high priority when designing the ship considering how open everything is in the eve universe technology wise , not like the Amarr would be paranoid about Minmatar getting hold of their fancy laser technology .
If they did have something super secret on a particular ships then they could install special systems for self-destruct purposes - something capsuleers should also be required to do. Fit a rig or whatever if you want the nearly pointless ability to deny loot .
PS; by your logic Hulks, Freighters, Rorquals, Jump Freighters should not be able to self-destruct their mods / cargoholds |
|
Bent Barrel
55
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 21:21:00 -
[201] - Quote
Marconus Orion wrote:Bent Barrel wrote:how about removeing killmails completely ? CCP will get less work (like endless additions and tweaks) and we'll get rid of killmail whores ... Seriously, get out. This game would be nothing if it was not for the stories. Guess what helps tell the stories? Kill mails reports.
youtube videos ? much better than killmails....
also sov changes tell a much better story ... honestly what makes a lowsec killmail ***** special ? nothing ...
the best proof is all those ganks where people hold the victim long enough for people to arrive to get a spot on the killmail ... how usefull is that ?
2005 style killmails were enough ... |
Markarian Aurelius
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
9
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 21:42:00 -
[202] - Quote
This is fantastic news. Can we also remove the ability to self destruct inside of POS shields? |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 21:46:00 -
[203] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ribikoka wrote: True, just gunslinger troll dont understand anything from this changes. After this changes the SD function will be an useless feature which is nonsense and loot drops from a ship a fail when a player destruct his ship and his modules because he dont want to give them to enemy hands.
I do believe I gave very clear examples of where self destructing is still a useful action. I even said I personally wouldn't mind if loot DIDN'T drop. So I don't know why you're screaming that I'm a troll. Had to self destruct one too many capitals, have you? Don't want the rest of EVE to know you lost a ship because of an embarrassing lolfit or something?
Your logic is bullsh*t and you gave a crap example. Man if the pilot use explosives to self destruct his ship and modules you just get wrecks and exploded!!! items. Do you understand this with your childish logic ? That's why using self destruct someone, because he dont want to give his ship and technologies to enemy. Without this feature the SD is useless and nonsense.
|
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment
44
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 22:39:00 -
[204] - Quote
Someone told me tht when you eject while under 25%hull left, it will generate a killmail now. Did not happen to me today.
A mate and me killed a cane, who ejected. I saw that he got negativ hull and he exploded. We got the loot, but no killmail. |
Katalci
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
108
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 03:31:00 -
[205] - Quote
G0hme wrote:Thats a load of bull, nobody want the mods of your T2 fit Carrier anyway. Assuming that people SD to keep a few modules from falling into the enemies hands is why they do it is ridiculos and naive. Its to not have it show up and the killboard and nothing else! You can't vapourize a ship. Supercapitals are usually t2-fit c/d
l0rd carlos wrote:Someone told me tht when you eject while under 25%hull left, it will generate a killmail now. Did not happen to me today.
A mate and me killed a cane, who ejected. I saw that he got negativ hull and he exploded. We got the loot, but no killmail. This will never matter ever unless you have cripple levels of DPS. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
178
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 06:24:00 -
[206] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ribikoka wrote: True, just gunslinger troll dont understand anything from this changes. After this changes the SD function will be an useless feature which is nonsense and loot drops from a ship a fail when a player destruct his ship and his modules because he dont want to give them to enemy hands.
I do believe I gave very clear examples of where self destructing is still a useful action. I even said I personally wouldn't mind if loot DIDN'T drop. So I don't know why you're screaming that I'm a troll. Had to self destruct one too many capitals, have you? Don't want the rest of EVE to know you lost a ship because of an embarrassing lolfit or something? Your logic is bullsh*t and you gave a crap example. Man if the pilot use explosives to self destruct his ship and modules you just get wrecks and exploded!!! items. Do you understand this with your childish logic ? That's why using self destruct someone, because he dont want to give his ship and technologies to enemy. Without this feature the SD is useless and nonsense.
It would help if you read posts before screaming that what I'm saying is bs, or that I'm a troll, or whatever else. I gave a handful of examples - beyond denying loot - of where self destructing is a useful, if not flat out necessary, game mechanic.
Since you've worked yourself up into an insane little rage and seem incapable of reading posts, I'll repeat them: Stuck in a wormhole? Self destruct to get out. Someone pointed you and threatening to hold you indefinitely unless you pay a ransom? Self destruct. On the other side of the universe and want to quickly get somewhere else? Self destruct.
I also urge you to self destruct all your ships before this change goes live, this is your last chance to hide your failfits and dumb choices from the rest of the universe. |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 09:11:00 -
[207] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ribikoka wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ribikoka wrote: True, just gunslinger troll dont understand anything from this changes. After this changes the SD function will be an useless feature which is nonsense and loot drops from a ship a fail when a player destruct his ship and his modules because he dont want to give them to enemy hands.
I do believe I gave very clear examples of where self destructing is still a useful action. I even said I personally wouldn't mind if loot DIDN'T drop. So I don't know why you're screaming that I'm a troll. Had to self destruct one too many capitals, have you? Don't want the rest of EVE to know you lost a ship because of an embarrassing lolfit or something? Your logic is bullsh*t and you gave a crap example. Man if the pilot use explosives to self destruct his ship and modules you just get wrecks and exploded!!! items. Do you understand this with your childish logic ? That's why using self destruct someone, because he dont want to give his ship and technologies to enemy. Without this feature the SD is useless and nonsense. It would help if you read posts before screaming that what I'm saying is bs, or that I'm a troll, or whatever else. I gave a handful of examples - beyond denying loot - of where self destructing is a useful, if not flat out necessary, game mechanic. Since you've worked yourself up into an insane little rage and seem incapable of reading posts, I'll repeat them: Stuck in a wormhole? Self destruct to get out. Someone pointed you and threatening to hold you indefinitely unless you pay a ransom? Self destruct. On the other side of the universe and want to quickly get somewhere else? Self destruct. I also urge you to self destruct all your ships before this change goes live, this is your last chance to hide your failfits and dumb choices from the rest of the universe.
If would help if you trying to use your brain. Yes you are a troll without logical thinking. Maybe you never could to bring to fight enough firepower to sink enemy ships and crying to CCP when you cant get killmails. YOU SHOULD TRY TO USE NOT CIVILIAN GUNS YOU NOOB!!! And another thing self destruct a pod not equal with self destruct a ship after when someone agressed your ship. Maybe equal for you without brain but not for other else.
The SD is nonsense after this patch when someone aggressed you. Why use anyone when the ship will drop loots and wont give to no one any advance. Other one, why will drop loots, when a player exploding his modules/ships, designedly annihilate his stuffs. When someone exploding his combat tools that will be undamaged ??? LOL |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
178
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 10:07:00 -
[208] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ribikoka wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ribikoka wrote: True, just gunslinger troll dont understand anything from this changes. After this changes the SD function will be an useless feature which is nonsense and loot drops from a ship a fail when a player destruct his ship and his modules because he dont want to give them to enemy hands.
I do believe I gave very clear examples of where self destructing is still a useful action. I even said I personally wouldn't mind if loot DIDN'T drop. So I don't know why you're screaming that I'm a troll. Had to self destruct one too many capitals, have you? Don't want the rest of EVE to know you lost a ship because of an embarrassing lolfit or something? Your logic is bullsh*t and you gave a crap example. Man if the pilot use explosives to self destruct his ship and modules you just get wrecks and exploded!!! items. Do you understand this with your childish logic ? That's why using self destruct someone, because he dont want to give his ship and technologies to enemy. Without this feature the SD is useless and nonsense. It would help if you read posts before screaming that what I'm saying is bs, or that I'm a troll, or whatever else. I gave a handful of examples - beyond denying loot - of where self destructing is a useful, if not flat out necessary, game mechanic. Since you've worked yourself up into an insane little rage and seem incapable of reading posts, I'll repeat them: Stuck in a wormhole? Self destruct to get out. Someone pointed you and threatening to hold you indefinitely unless you pay a ransom? Self destruct. On the other side of the universe and want to quickly get somewhere else? Self destruct. I also urge you to self destruct all your ships before this change goes live, this is your last chance to hide your failfits and dumb choices from the rest of the universe. If would help if you trying to use your brain. Yes you are a troll without logical thinking. Maybe you never could to bring to fight enough firepower to sink enemy ships and crying to CCP when you cant get killmails. YOU SHOULD TRY TO USE NOT CIVILIAN GUNS YOU NOOB!!! And another thing self destruct a pod not equal with self destruct a ship after when someone agressed your ship. Maybe equal for you without brain but not for other else. The SD is nonsense after this patch when someone aggressed you. Why use anyone when the ship will drop loots and wont give to no one any advance. Other one, why will drop loots, when a player exploding his modules/ships, designedly annihilate his stuffs. When someone exploding his combat tools that will be undamaged ??? LOL Maybe you used failfit, your unlogical thinking show to us your answer, but the real pilots, (not you noob) dont want to give to enemy his very expensive modules, that's why they exploding their ships, because they know they will lost their ship. Thats why the military why destroying their high technologies,when no chance to survive because they dont want to give their stuffs to enemy. So, the loot drop after selfdestructing it's a fail. The killmail it's fine if the killmail info includes the self destructing at involved parties and the exploded ship HP what the ship owner destroyed.
Ah, so your gripe is with self destructing being "fail" or "useless" specifically when in combat (rather than in general, which is obviously a silly thing to suggest, for the reasons I've pointed out)?
Well all I can say to that is deal with it. You were going to lose a ship anyway (because of you were doing something stupid or have an embarrassing lolfit and got caught), but now the people who put in the time and effort to kill you get an accurate battle report and maybe some loot. Seems fine to me :) |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 10:30:00 -
[209] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:Ribikoka wrote:TheGunslinger42 wrote:[quote=Ribikoka] True, just gunslinger troll dont understand anything from this changes. After this changes the SD function will be an useless feature which is nonsense and loot drops from a ship a fail when a player destruct his ship and his modules because he dont want to give them to enemy hands.
I do believe I gave very clear examples of where self destructing is still a useful action. I even said I personally wouldn't mind if loot DIDN'T drop. So I don't know why you're screaming that I'm a troll. Had to self destruct one too many capitals, have you? Don't want the rest of EVE to know you lost a ship because of an embarrassing lolfit or something? Your logic is bullsh*t and you gave a crap example. Man if the pilot use explosives to self destruct his ship and modules you just get wrecks and exploded!!! items. Do you understand this with your childish logic ? That's why using self destruct someone, because he dont want to give his ship and technologies to enemy. Without this feature the SD is useless and nonsense. If would help if you trying to use your brain. Yes you are a troll without logical thinking. Maybe you never could to bring to fight enough firepower to sink enemy ships and crying to CCP when you cant get killmails. YOU SHOULD TRY TO USE NOT CIVILIAN GUNS YOU NOOB!!! And another thing self destruct a pod not equal with self destruct a ship after when someone agressed your ship. Maybe equal for you without brain but not for other else. The SD is nonsense after this patch when someone aggressed you. Why use anyone when the ship will drop loots and wont give to no one any advance. Other one, why will drop loots, when a player exploding his modules/ships, designedly annihilate his stuffs. When someone exploding his combat tools that will be undamaged ??? LOL Maybe you used failfit, your unlogical thinking show to us your answer, but the real pilots, (not you noob) dont want to give to enemy his very expensive modules, that's why they exploding their ships, because they know they will lost their ship. Thats why the military why destroying their high technologies,when no chance to survive because they dont want to give their stuffs to enemy. So, the loot drop after selfdestructing it's a fail. The killmail it's fine if the killmail info includes the self destructing at involved parties and the exploded ship HP what the ship owner destroyed. Ah, so your gripe is with self destructing being "fail" or "useless" specifically when in combat (rather than in general, which is obviously a silly thing to suggest, for the reasons I've pointed out)? Well all I can say to that is deal with it. You were going to lose a ship anyway (because of you were doing something stupid or have an embarrassing lolfit and got caught), but now the people who put in the time and effort to kill you get an accurate battle report and maybe some loot. Seems fine to me :)
Again you troll:
"Maybe you used failfit, your unlogical thinking show to us your answer, but the real pilots, (not you noob) dont want to give to enemy his very expensive modules, that's why they exploding their ships, because they know they will lost their ship.
Thats why the military why destroying their high technologies,when no chance to survive because they dont want to give their stuffs to enemy."
Try to read and forget your drama from lolfit. But without brain you realy hard to understand why use a pilot self destructing. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 10:42:00 -
[210] - Quote
Whichever way you slice it self-destruct being completely the same as the ship blowing up normally (kill report, loot) makes the whole function redundant outside of getting out of WH space.
If it's just going to be a "I'm bored" button, make the timer 10 seconds or something. Otherwise, don't drop loot and have it actually mean something. |
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 11:45:00 -
[211] - Quote
what a staggeringly ignorant post , maybe you should actually read the thread before spewing your input
|
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
144
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 12:41:00 -
[212] - Quote
The butthurt by the "I like to push that red button" faction is very strong, I suggest to visit your local proctologist. Ribikoka seemed to have missed a few scheduled meetings with him tho.
See your failfit on a KB soon o/ |
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 13:01:00 -
[213] - Quote
The butthurt by Bite Me inc because they didnt bring enough firepower to shot a noobship and didnt got a simple killmail. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 13:08:00 -
[214] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:what a staggeringly ignorant post , maybe you should actually read the thread before spewing your input
Perhaps I should "contribute" with ad hominem attacks and retarded ~real life~ logic about rigging ships with charges to be able to self-destruct in a spaceship game with lasers and treacle-physics?
I haven't personally self-destructed a ship in combat once so v0v - good job on the psychoanalysis sport.
ps. Posting a contrary point of view =/= ignorance |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
179
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 14:19:00 -
[215] - Quote
Untouchable Heart wrote:The butthurt by Bite Me inc because they didnt bring enough firepower to shot a noobship and didnt got a simple killmail.
We're not butthurt about you self destructing your failfit capitals ribikoka, we'd just like to see battle reports existing. Which we're going to get because CCP happen to agree with us. We look forward to your tears and failfit killmails in the future. And the gytostabs you fit to your archon, or whatever other lol mods you have, since they'll drop for our amusement and profits. |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
306
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 16:05:00 -
[216] - Quote
TheGunslinger42 wrote:Untouchable Heart wrote:The butthurt by Bite Me inc because they didnt bring enough firepower to shot a noobship and didnt got a simple killmail. We're not butthurt about you self destructing your failfit capitals ribikoka, we'd just like to see battle reports existing. Which we're going to get because CCP happen to agree with us. We look forward to your tears and failfit killmails in the future. And the gytostabs you fit to your archon, or whatever other lol mods you have, since they'll drop for our amusement and profits.
Can you read, little troll ?
So, the loot drop after selfdestructing it's a fail.
This is what i wrote 3 post earlier. The killmail it's fine if the killmail info includes the self destructing at involved parties and the exploded ship HP what the ship owner destroyed.
Maybe your unlogical thinking hide your fail fit from killmail. :P
So, your failfit dreams its a fail again from hide fittings if i wrote the killmail it's fine and thats show it a pilot how fitted his ship. I think your mental phase is very bad, maybe thats came from your butthurt when you missed the killmails because your firepower was crap everytime.
And learn "gyrostab" name. Maybe you fit "gytostab" to your arcon in your dreams, but thats realy hard , because your first and last ship a noobship what you can use it.
So, the main problem it's the loot drop, when the crew in the ship exploding everyone on the aboard. After this change the SD is pointless after aggresing. One function remaining for noobs like you. SDing cynoalts and using SD for alternative clonejump. But meaningless from game and SD will be a ruined feature. |
Myz Toyou
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
145
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 16:12:00 -
[217] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:
Can you read, little troll ?
No, you cant read as Gunslinger and most of us "Yeah" sayers stated several times that we dont care about the loot drops, tbh I think most of us would even say remove it as long as CCP also removes insurance payout on SDing.
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 16:45:00 -
[218] - Quote
Durzel wrote:Perhaps I should "contribute" with ad hominem attacks and r etarded ~real life~ logic about rigging ships with charges to be able to self-destruct in a spaceship game with lasers and treacle-physics? I haven't personally self-destructed a ship in combat once so v0v - good job on the psychoanalysis sport. ps. Posting a contrary point of view =/= ignorance
Well first of all there's plenty more reasons to self-destruct than getting out of a wormhole, this isn't an opinion it's a fact, your not being aware of these reasons makes you ignorant (and lazy).
Second, why they can't change the timer to 10 seconds has already been covered in depth in this very thread, try going and reading it, (again, ignorant and lazy) also I didn't try to psychoanalyse you, are you on crack or something ?
PS; GJ dodging the profanity filter that always ends well. |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
28
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 17:44:00 -
[219] - Quote
lol whining about the profanity filter when every post you've made in this thread has included an ad hominem attack.
Really don't understand why you can't simply debate stuff like this like an adult. Have I called you any names? I'm not claiming to be an expert on everything, never have, nor have I said I know everything there is to know about everything. Quite why you feel the need to be so unconstructive is beyond me. If there are a multitude of reasons why someone might self-destruct, outside of escaping WH space, why don't you educate us "ignorant" folk as to what they are?
As for the "10 seconds" thing, that's just getting bogged down in semantics. If it can't be 10 seconds for technical reasons, then maybe it could be 30, or a minute.. the point wasn't that it must be 10 seconds moreover that if the outcome of clicking SD is the same regardless - loot and a killmail for your aggressors - then as far as I can make out, and I'm quite willing to be told I'm wrong in a rational manner, having it take 2 minutes to complete is irrelevant.
Now if it did an AoE blast, or didn't drop loot, the delay would make sense - since that timer would then, as it is now, be a countdown that your enemies have to beat to get the extra reward (or avoid the AoE blast)... for example. |
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 17:57:00 -
[220] - Quote
Myz Toyou wrote:Ribikoka wrote:
Can you read, little troll ?
No, you cant read as Gunslinger and most of us "Yeah" sayers stated several times that we dont care about the loot drops, tbh I think most of us would even say remove it as long as CCP also removes insurance payout on SDing.
Yes, he didnt read. So, HTFU and go away. |
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 18:01:00 -
[221] - Quote
Durzel wrote:lol whining about the profanity filter when every post you've made in this thread has included an ad hominem attack.
Really don't understand why you can't simply debate stuff like this like an adult. Have I called you any names? I'm not claiming to be an expert on everything, never have, nor have I said I know everything there is to know about everything. Quite why you feel the need to be so unconstructive is beyond me. If there are a multitude of reasons why someone might self-destruct, outside of escaping WH space, why don't you educate us "ignorant" folk as to what they are?
As for the "10 seconds" thing, that's just getting bogged down in semantics. If it can't be 10 seconds for technical reasons, then maybe it could be 30, or a minute.. the point wasn't that it must be 10 seconds moreover that if the outcome of clicking SD is the same regardless - loot and a killmail for your aggressors - then as far as I can make out, and I'm quite willing to be told I'm wrong in a rational manner, having it take 2 minutes to complete is irrelevant.
Now if it did an AoE blast, or didn't drop loot, the delay would make sense - since that timer would then, as it is now, be a countdown that your enemies have to beat to get the extra reward (or avoid the AoE blast)... for example.
So you saying I'm whining about the filter and that my logic is retar ded is fine but me calling you ignorant when you're too lazy to read the thread is not ? As for why I don't just educate you "ignorant" folk, would be a waste of my time since it's all already in the thread, RTFM. |
Untouchable Heart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 21:55:00 -
[222] - Quote
. |
Slaktoid
Aperture Harmonics K162
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 02:17:00 -
[223] - Quote
I'd also like to see insurance removed when SD, but the main reason I post is that I thought I'd propose a way of doing SD.
If rightclick -> SD would bring up a small panel or grid of "nodepoints", based on what size ship you're flying. A frig could have one node, a capital maybe 5-6. For SD to go through you might have to click "Arm node" and wait 10 seconds, then like an Execute button could flash red, and when pushed the charge would go off. This would do away with accidental SDs.
Also flashy red buttons are yummy...we need more red buttons in the game. |
Markarian Aurelius
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 16:24:00 -
[224] - Quote
Slaktoid wrote:I'd also like to see insurance removed when SD, but the main reason I post is that I thought I'd propose a way of doing SD.
I completely agree. I could never imagine an insurance company that would be willing to compensate me if I intentionally blew up my property. While not all RL things can or should be simulated in Eve, this one is just common sense, just like not receiving insurance if you get Concorded for any legitimate reason, bugs not withstanding.
If blowing up your ship is used as a denial of ISK to your enemy, it should never result in a monetary benefit to the one hitting the big red button. |
Markarian Aurelius
4U Services Inc. Talocan United
11
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 21:52:00 -
[225] - Quote
Two step wrote:My preference would be that SD doesn't drop modules, but it also doesn't pay insurance. That way, you can choose to give nothing to your enemies, but you wouldn't get any insurance yourself.
I think that someone should get at least something for forcing a player to self-destruct...even if it's a reduced loot chance. |
Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus Rote Kapelle
30
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 01:43:00 -
[226] - Quote
About time!
Nom nom nom tears. |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
312
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 09:55:00 -
[227] - Quote
I almost 100% support this change. Only thing is maybe loot loss on an SD ship should be 75% instead of 50%, or the modules that don't dropped should be blanked out on the mail (with value still counted for total isk loss). Dunno how this would be implemented but some actual tactical use for SD might be a good idea as well ^^ There should be a rather awesome pic here |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 08:49:00 -
[228] - Quote
Funny that so many people think that SDing shouldn't drop loot. If anything, self-destructing should leave even more loot than normal destruction of a ship. You know, contrary to what movies tell us, ships are not built with elaborate systems for self-destruction designed to destroy everything. Any makeshift method to destroy your own ship would probably leave much more of it intact or salvagable than a horde of enemy ships tearing apart your vessel with their weapons.
Good to see the devs are going through with their original plan. The Invulnerability Sphere:Make mining/industrial vessels defendable, better fights for everyone! |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy Tactical Narcotics Team
174
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 09:12:00 -
[229] - Quote
Hey Frodo - If you destroy your own stuff you make sure to destroy every internal system you dont want the enemy to have first...
Pinky |
Terrorfrodo
Deep Space Darwinian Law Enforcement Agency
133
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 09:35:00 -
[230] - Quote
Sure you want that, doesn't mean you can. Your modules are systems deeply built into your ship, and you may simply not be able to destroy everything in a battle, away from station services, in the short time you have.
Imagine a real aircraft carrier... if the captain decides to sink the ship that is about to fall into enemy hands, the crew may be able to sink it by detonating their ammunitions and breaching the hull. But will they destroy every part and every system on the ship so that the enemy cannot retrieve anything valuable from the wreck? I very much doubt it. The Invulnerability Sphere:Make mining/industrial vessels defendable, better fights for everyone! |
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.07 18:57:00 -
[231] - Quote
no see but in the future BLAH BLAH BLAH I'M AN IDIOT AND THINK EVE SPACESHIPS DESIGNERS PLACE SUPER HIGH PRIORITY ON BEING ABLE TO ~~~~~DENY LOOT~~~~ |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
225
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 13:27:00 -
[232] - Quote
If you want to "deny loot" then don't involve yourself in a fight. Simple. More loot for me please, as well as delicious killmails and tears. |
Lojik
Enlightened Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 08:24:00 -
[233] - Quote
Apparently SoCo didn't get this memo. A lot of the 15 Super Caps they just lost in K-6K16 decided to SD just short of being killed.
Thanks CCP. |
|
CCP Masterplan
C C P C C P Alliance
572
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 16:02:00 -
[234] - Quote
You're welcome. I watched the stream of that fight. Lots of stuff blowing up makes me happy. "This one time, on patch day..." CCP Masterplan -á| -áTeam Five-0: Rewriting the law |
|
Kristen Andelare
Abacus Industries Group Aerodyne Collective
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 17:02:00 -
[235] - Quote
Hey Frodo,
Pinky's right. The SD mechanism isn't haphazard or cobbled together quickly it is also a built-in system that's part of the hull when you purchase it. And with a capsuleer's nerve endings hooked into every system of the ship, self-destructing should indeed be more complete than death by shots from any external source. Blowing something up from the inside out is always preferable for assured complete destruction. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
112
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:11:00 -
[236] - Quote
Kristen Andelare wrote:Hey Frodo,
Pinky's right. The SD mechanism isn't haphazard or cobbled together quickly it is also a built-in system that's part of the hull when you purchase it. And with a capsuleer's nerve endings hooked into every system of the ship, self-destructing should indeed be more complete than death by shots from any external source. Blowing something up from the inside out is always preferable for assured complete destruction.
no you're wrong |
Alystin Wyndyl
Night's Shadows TriMark Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.16 18:33:00 -
[237] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Kristen Andelare wrote:Hey Frodo,
Pinky's right. The SD mechanism isn't haphazard or cobbled together quickly it is also a built-in system that's part of the hull when you purchase it. And with a capsuleer's nerve endings hooked into every system of the ship, self-destructing should indeed be more complete than death by shots from any external source. Blowing something up from the inside out is always preferable for assured complete destruction. no you're wrong
Good argument. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
113
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 09:32:00 -
[238] - Quote
feel free to go browse through the rest of the thread for the argument part |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
10060
|
Posted - 2012.08.17 18:44:00 -
[239] - Quote
I think the dropping of loot is a bad design idea. SDing should have some draw backs for both sides.
CCP Zulu..... Forcing players to dock at the captain's quarters is a form of what we actually wanted to get through, which is making Incarna a seamless part of the EVE Online experience. |
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
113
|
Posted - 2012.08.18 00:07:00 -
[240] - Quote
Why is that ? Because crybaby losers are sad that they're losing their ship and want to spit in the eye of the ones that defeated them ? (this is basically griefing) I don't see any reason for CCP to support behavior like that.
If that's what people want they should have to fit a module or a rig to achieve it, makes zero sense for the NPCs that designed the ships to include such a retardedly wasteful and pointless feature.
( There are no technological secrets to hide in any of the ships EVE players have access to, they aren't prototypes and everyone has access to their schematics. ) |
|
Valshea Draconis
mLan
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.19 07:17:00 -
[241] - Quote
Tyrrax Thorrk wrote:Maybe if you actually had to rig them it would be reasonable, but you don't and letting you choose to destroy all your modules and cargo is and always has been stupid.
You think it's reasonable for every single ship in eve to have explosives rigged up everywhere that'll do more damage than any external attack could ? What exactly would the roleplay reason be ? Spite ? HURR DURR I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO BE ABLE TO LOOT MY COLD DEAD CORPSE DURRRRR It would be a waste of resources, just like nobody would fit a rig that let them do what they can do for free now over extra shields or damage. (RP wise it would also be a huge stupid risk to have explosives like that setup everywhere)
Yeah you want to be able to give the middle finger to the guy killing you, buhu sucks to be you, try doing so by not dying next time or by killing him instead, or hiring merceneries, or infiltrating his corp.
---
Do you also believe that mobile phones bricking themselves after multiple attempts at password guessing is a bad idea? It's done for the same reason, and it's a form of material denial.
Almost every single "spaceship" movie I have ever seen has the ability to overload the main generator/warp drive/whatever in order to cause a self destruct. It's a Sci-Fi standard mechanic to destroy a ship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-destruct
If your trying to argue using a "roleplay" mechanic, you missed the mark, not to mention that if we knew it might take us a while to die we could overheat every module we can and burn them out, so a "forced overheat" is also extremely logical from a point of pumping excess power from cap to everything and killing every component on the ship, they dont have to explode, just "break" beyond the ability to repair.
Killmails? Not a problem. A killmail should be generated for any kill where the SD ship is currently TARGETED, as that would make sense. If you cant hold a target lock during a player doing a SD I don't see a reason a killmail should be generated.
As far as cargo, I can come up with dozens of reasons and ways to warrant and balance "self destructing cargo", but you'd never please both the traders and the pirates.
|
Tyrrax Thorrk
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
113
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 13:55:00 -
[242] - Quote
Sure you can destroy your ship, but SD causing there to be zero loot is moronic unless you go completely overboard with explosives. (not practical unless you're flying classified technology that can't fall into enemy hands, which doesn't apply to any eve tech we have access to)
But hey you're welcome to your opinion, I already won. |
TheGunslinger42
Bite Me inc Elysian Empire
300
|
Posted - 2012.08.21 10:35:00 -
[243] - Quote
The way I see it, self destructing was meant to be a mechanic to allow you to get out of certain situations - like being griefed by being held indefinitely by someone, or being trapped in a wormhole, or whatever, not as a way for you to 'get back' at the person who killed you. |
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
2367
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 18:06:00 -
[244] - Quote
Perhaps "Self Destruct" should mean exactly that. It sets off small micro charges attached to your implants that blows your head off so that you can instantly be transfered to your medical clone... leaving your ship and all modules intact and floating in space.
To carve a successful niche for yourself in EVE you need to be able to out sell, out produce, out fight,-á out run, or out wit your competitors. If you can do none of the above, your only option is to complain on the forums that somehow you are at a disadvantage using the exact same tool set-áas the rest of the player base. |
Min Uzzmesser
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 17:59:00 -
[245] - Quote
This is a step backwards, pandering to all the killmail whores goes against the spirit of EVE, IMO. Players should have absolute control over their assets including the denial of said assets to others. This change flies in the face of the reasoning behind such a mechanic, in reality crews scuttle ships and warriors/soldiers kill themselves to rob the enemy of plunder and make victories hollow.
Then again in a universe where one can collect insurance on a ship, destroyed by Concord while committing piracy, logic and common sense don't always prevail. |
Pandora Star1494
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.09 23:47:00 -
[246] - Quote
Min Uzzmesser wrote: Then again, in a universe where one can collect insurance on a ship destroyed by Concord while committing piracy, logic and common sense don't always prevail.
No you can't.... |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: [one page] |