Morning Rise,

Thanks for keeping up with the feedback. Hopefully your revisions will be innovative.

"As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta."

A couple of things I would really like to get across.

'' When they work '' - they don't really. That's why the hype is mostly unused and will continue to be. Also why the proph is X times more popular than the Myrm.

"That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta." This I really want an explanation to please.

Dragoon -> Proph -> Geddon. When looking for ways to innovate new game play styles and freshen up the mix with variety there doesn't seem to be an issue with Amar. However, if you play Galente you're effectively being told that an old legacy bonus that's never really worked well, still doesn't work very well. but maybe will get better is being hung around your neck Do or Die.

Ten years ago someone decided that Amar were armor tankers and gave them the two best bonus's you could ever ask for. Resists and Armor Hitpoints. Galente were also supposed to be armor tankers but someone seemed to think that DPS tanking with Blasters would make up for squishy tank. It hasn't in the least.

Add to this the fact that Galente across the board have lower pg and cap with the worst optimal and fall off and it's not hard to figure out why they've failed to have an impact or gain the popular following that other races have.

This is our chance to finally even things out but you're failing dismally to break the mold or forge a new direction. Instead we're being told that we're stuck with bad old legacy mechanics while other people move forward in new directions. This just isn't acceptable.

Armor Hitpoints would differentiate us as a tank philosophy. It would probably still make us second place to resists But, we could fit fewer plates and at least be fast enough to apply our myopic dps in more situations.

I don't want to be handcuffed to an old failed legacy anymore. I want innovation. I want to see solutions in action not promises that stuff that doesn't work might not be so bad later maybe.

Tiericide was supposed to open the door to new things. Lets see them please.

Hi again Gallente friends!

We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.

Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.

Thanks again for the input!

Incorrect, and if you'd paid a bit more attention to the thread, rather than insulting everyone (including people who have 7 years more experience than you... ) then you'd know this is incorrect:

7*1.25*1.47 = 12.9 turrets (current, with two mag stabs)
7/0.75*1.23 = 11.5 turrets (proposed, with RoF bonus and one mag stab)

On top of this it loses a heavy drone, with Ogre II's thats another -63 DPS.


The solution, is simple; increase ROF bonus to 7.5% assuming it's still losing a heavy drone. You could of course keep it the same by removing a low slot and giving it a 10% damage bonus without changing the drone bandwidth:

7*1.5*1.23 = 12.9

Looking forward to what these new discussions (that Rise eluded to earlier) lead to.

Morning Rise,

Thanks for keeping up with the feedback. Hopefully your revisions will be innovative.

"As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta."

A couple of things I would really like to get across.

'' When they work '' - they don't really. That's why the hype is mostly unused and will continue to be. Also why the proph is X times more popular than the Myrm.

"That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta." This I really want an explanation to please.

Dragoon -> Proph -> Geddon. When looking for ways to innovate new game play styles and freshen up the mix with variety there doesn't seem to be an issue with Amar. However, if you play Galente you're effectively being told that an old legacy bonus that's never really worked well, still doesn't work very well. but maybe will get better is being hung around your neck Do or Die.

Ten years ago someone decided that Amar were armor tankers and gave them the two best bonus's you could ever ask for. Resists and Armor Hitpoints. Galente were also supposed to be armor tankers but someone seemed to think that DPS tanking with Blasters would make up for squishy tank. It hasn't in the least.

Add to this the fact that Galente across the board have lower pg and cap with the worst optimal and fall off and it's not hard to figure out why they've failed to have an impact or gain the popular following that other races have.

This is our chance to finally even things out but you're failing dismally to break the mold or forge a new direction. Instead we're being told that we're stuck with bad old legacy mechanics while other people move forward in new directions. This just isn't acceptable.

Armor Hitpoints would differentiate us as a tank philosophy. It would probably still make us second place to resists But, we could fit fewer plates and at least be fast enough to apply our myopic dps in more situations.

I don't want to be handcuffed to an old failed legacy anymore. I want innovation. I want to see solutions in action not promises that stuff that doesn't work might not be so bad later maybe.

Tiericide was supposed to open the door to new things. Lets see them please.

Didn't it also lose all it's missile hardpoints?

Hi again Gallente friends!

We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.

Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.

Thanks again for the input!

Something people need to be clear on from CCP Rise's post earlier in this thread:

"It won't be capable of the highest damage numbers of any battleship now, but it can still fit blasters across the top and run mag stabs along with drone damage amps and heavy drones."

This is a clearcut nerf to Domi's dps. I'd be ok with a nerf provided the proposed alternative was appealing. People who are saying this is a boost to the Domi did not read this thread fully.

I don't understand why people find it exciting that Domi will have the tracking to zap smaller ships now. It was always fine at hitting ships it's own size and could deploy smaller drones (at a dps loss) to chase around really annoying smaller ships.

Do people really get excited about killboards that show a BS taking out a frig?

I also don't understand why people would want to use a bigger, tankier ship solely as a sniper when tier 3 BCs will fill this role just as well but with more mobility.

I may be missing something here so I am open to hearing more.

Didn't it also lose all it's missile hardpoints?

CCP Rise: It seems that most people want the Hyperion to have a place in large fleet doctrine like all the other Teir 3 battleships do. The mael has massive alpha, the abaddon massive buffer, and the rokh a solid mix of buffer and optimal. So where can the Hyperion fit in? Make the 7.5% repair bonus effective for both local AND RECEIVED remote armor reps. How does this balance out? The new Hyperion would be thinner than the abaddon and rokh (no resistance bonus to compliment EHP buffer, armor tank lows shared with damage mods), thus making it easier to alpha off the field. However, when remote armor reps start landing, the thing is a beast, turning 3 logistic pilots into 4 effectively (at Gal BS5) and becoming the most difficult Teir 3 battleship to beat while being repaired. This is the niche the Hyperion can and should fill. Thin, but incredibly resilient with the assistance of logistics.

The Navy Domi is still there, and it's hard to argue with the Vindicator and Bhaalorn. Besides, there's a ton of rage and I'm sure that CCP will come to the table ready to play ball tomorrow. :)

-Liang

I'm certain this is part of CCP's bargining ploy and they'll be bringing out the REAL gallente changes tomorrow... And because these have all been so terrible, we'll be thanking our lucky stars when we've been brought to parity with Amitar.

Hi again Gallente friends!

We've just had a meeting with the balance team to weigh all your feedback and go over our options for this ship line. We have come up with some new solutions which I think you will be happy about.

Look for an update with the new versions in the next day or two, we are going to spend some time tuning them so that we are less likely to have to make even more changes afterwards.

Thanks again for the input!

If your rate of fire is 10 and you reduce that by 50% what does that become??
A rate of fire of 5

CCP Rise: It seems that most people want the Hyperion to have a place in large fleet doctrine like all the other Teir 3 battleships do.

The Mega & Dominix looks fine to me, but the Hyperion looks like garbage.
It can't dual rep anymore because you need to drop a web or propulsion, both of which are non-options since it doesn't have a range or tracking bonus.

My recommendation would be to drop a high slot, increase the damage bonus to compensate, and give it back its 5th mid.

They removed the changes to the megathron and the hyperion, but left the changes for the Dominix that the people who use it for missions were complaining about.....

stay cap stable in active armor tanking.

Once you get out of the newbie tutorial zone those domi changes help amazingly in null sec!

I am really struggling to see how. Drones never had an issue hitting in the first place.

Once you get out of the newbie tutorial zone those domi changes help amazingly in null sec!

Rep received is a bad idea. It is effectively only half of the resist bonus.

How would this be the case? .

How would this be the case? a) resistance penalties stack, .

No they don't. Ship bonuses don't stack with modules.

That said, a bump up to 10%/level and the addition of more incoming reps would make the active tank bonuses actually useful. Trade buffer for reps.