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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Alice Saki
Suddenly Spaced Out Suddenly Spaceships.
43161
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:49:00 -
[211] - Quote
I'm gonna Bump your Vindi off station Tsia =D
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Dilanski Maulerant
Lexmark Industries ACME Holding Conglomerate
0
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:50:00 -
[212] - Quote
No I am not 'excited' about the Megathron. Or the Hyperion. Or the Dominix for that matter. All I see is my Mega performing worse, and the Hyperion still stuck with a niche/useless bonus until your active armour fix materialises, even then relegating it from any environment with logistics. [/rant] |
Tsia
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
8
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:50:00 -
[213] - Quote
Alice Saki wrote:I'm gonna Bump your Vindi off station Tsia =D
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Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
310
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:51:00 -
[214] - Quote
As many others have stated, I'm a bit sad about the Hyp. The rep bonus pretty much makes it useful only in small gang/solo situations, where every piece of tackle matters. Removing its fifth mid really reduces the Hyp's effectiveness in both of these situations.
As far as the Mega goes, I'm not particularly happy with the new slot layout either. While the ships are occasionally shield tanked in a goofy attempt to make a big, less effective Talos, the reality is that the Mega is far more likely to be armor tanked. Taking away a low slot means you're losing either 10k EHP or 150 DPS in order to gain a utility mid. I'm not sure about anyone else, but having that extra tank or DPS is far more useful in most situations than a second web. If you're going up against ECM, then sure, the fifth mid is handy for an ECCM, but in every other situation, the low slot is far more valuable.
As a side note, a lot of people are bitching about the large fleet applicability of these ships. While I understand that it sucks that Gallente ships aren't as good for large fleets, it's not necessarily a bad thing for the game. Gallente ships tend to be monsters in small gangs, and I'd hate to see their ability to be effective on the small scale in the name of making them "fleet viable." |
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
36
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:52:00 -
[215] - Quote
A few quick words.
The Hyperion will still remain useless and unused as it was before. You want to make the active armor tanking viable, but that is still a future project and with a long road ahead of it. You also go ahead and remove a midslot making even harder the ability to fit a MJD for the damn Hyperion (fitted with Blasters that have the smallest active range of all turrets in game).
How it's supposed to reach the target? How it's supposed to stay alive with all those cap hungry mods active?
Please think it over again.
Megathron.
I am not quite biased against the ROF bonus. But I would like to ask you how it's possible for the Mega to stay alive while it's trying to reach the target with a tank worse than before. How is the Mega going to sustain the modules being active while the blasters are eating away the capacitor? It would be better to lose 1 high slot (that of the one launcher) than a low slot or a mid.
And to add salt to the injury (from removing one low power slot) you further decrease the armor. What is the meaning of this? You think that will improve it's survivability chances? You believe that somehow this might help the Mega being more used?
Please do reconsider.
As for the Domi.
I am a drone user. I like them and I use them alot. So I am not disappointed by the change to a dedicated drone boat that much. But I am grossly appalled by the rest of the changes. Bigger signature to a ship that will be forced to stay still to deploy sentries?
How about you give the domi a new paint job with a giant bulls eye as the main piece.
Only five mid slots to a ship that his only weapon (hey Armageddon gets at least a neut/nos bonus too) are drones and the most useful modules are occupying medium power slots?
All in all the Gallente ships get once more the worst part of everything you might give to the ships. It feels like you want to see Gallente ships of the map.
So far these changes are not well thought and in some cases (like the Hyperion and Dominix) utterly useless and demeaning.
If you don't want us to use Gallente ships (and most specifically Battleships) please say so and be done with it.
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
36
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:53:00 -
[216] - Quote
double post fail |
Mariner6
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
126
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:57:00 -
[217] - Quote
So for some more aspects to these changes that have me wondering and seems like there are many contradictions in the whole Gal BS line up. So:
1) Attack BS = faster, combat BS= slower and tanky right? So the Mega is the attack BS, so faster, but only if shield tanked right? Because if you armor buffer it then its now slower than the active tanked Hyperion which if properly rigged will outrun it (due to rig changes.) And that is if you use the Hyperion as its designed. And of course, you must because shield tanking a Hyperion is now out and why buffer tank it and not use a bonus? Which, ok, got it, so which is attack again? Maybe the Hyperion should be attack and able to shield tank or active armor rep? Leave the Mega as is maybe? There is something here that just doesn't jibe. Maybe I'm dense. I mean CCP says they envision the Hyperion as a brawler in small gang work.... sounds like attack to me.
2) Then there is this whole ROF thing on the Mega. I was trying to work this in eft but not sure if I have this right. In fact, I may have this wrong (not a math god here.) So by going to ROF vice damage increase BUT when you turn on overheat that increases damage and not ROF. Because that %heat increase is applied to a much smaller number now doesn't that mean a corresponding lower rate of overall DPS than before? If so this sounds like a nerf to heated DPS. Its also uses more ammo and more cap. So while I'm seeing the benefit of shooting more often and how that can be a benefit, how well does it pair with heat bonus?
3) Tristan, Vexor and Domi seem really out of line now. Its seems like the pure drone boat deal was more of a specialized trait like in the proposed Navy Vexor. The BC also were always something special, particularly as two of the BC's have that horrible armor rep thing going. I don't know. If you could overheat drones, maybe the loss of the guns bonus would seem worthwhile, but it just seems kind of meh compared to the Geddon. Overall it just seems to lack the coherency of the other racial lines. |
fukier
891
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:57:00 -
[218] - Quote
im not sure the domi needs all those high slots...
imo i would prefer you move a high to a mid
so this is what i would like to see
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses: +10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints +10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
Slot layout: 5H(-1), 6M(+1), 7L; 5 turrets (-1) , 0 launchers Fittings: 9000 PWG, 600 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength Signature radius: 465(+45) At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
63
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:57:00 -
[219] - Quote
Seriously CCP. Stop trying to make Gallente into minmatar , ammar into gallente and minmatar into ammar!
The races have CONCEPTUAL FLAVOR. Stop trying to turn everything upside down!
Minmatar are supposed to be faster and less HP, Amarr damage projection with a lot of HP and slo, Gallente are the drone guys
Why putting everything upside down while still keeping the battleships as NOT GOOD ENOUGH as overall class ?
I liked everythgin you guys made up unitl now for this expansion, but the battleship changes are HORRIBLE!! Stop MIXING RACES DAMMIT! |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
546
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:58:00 -
[220] - Quote
I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good. |
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Burseg Sardaukar
Sardaukar Merc Guild General Tso's Alliance
254
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Posted - 2013.04.08 18:58:00 -
[221] - Quote
I've been just rageposting about the Dominix, I think I should give feedback on the other two Gallente ships:
An idea I've seen with a lot of merit (WRT the Hyperion) in this thread is a reduction in cap usage in conjunction with the Armor Repair bonus. This would absolutely help with the concerns over losing that second Cap booster.
As far as the Megathron is concerned... I think you guys are going the wrong way with the slot switch. Drop the utility high for another mid if you feel it needs it, or even consider the Hype as the Attack BS, considering it's supposed to be active tank. Trimarks are going to hurt the Mega, whereas the Aux nanos and Nanobots won't hinder the Hype. Hey, as a dude that lives in lowsec, you should read my idea on how to "fix" it... in Blog format, complete with a spreadsheet! http://3xxxd.blogspot.com/2012/09/how-to-buff-lowsec.html |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
120
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:00:00 -
[222] - Quote
Anna Verhyldvar wrote:Sinzor Aumer wrote: Sentry drones are overpowered. 150 km with 1 omnilink, seriously?
Yes, what a lovely number it makes in the "Show info" window. Of course, to actually HIT anything out at that range, you'd need several Drone Link Augmentors (4, I think), and since the Dominix has a base targeting range of 70km, you'll need to fit 2 Sensor Boosters with targeting range scripts, or a few signal amplifiers. So, wow, after using 4 high slots and 3 mid slots (or 1 mid and 3-4 lows), you can finally target and hit something at 150km. Oh and then you'll be doing kinetic damage, in fairly low amounts. Whoop de frickin doo. Now explain me how I can perform at least close to that with heavy drones.
Realistically, you only fit 2 drone links in any reasonable fit to get 100 km range, 150 km was to emphasize the absurd. You can switch to better tracking when fighting at close range. On top of that, you can choose damage type. And no, you dont need SeBo, you just assign them.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
63
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:00:00 -
[223] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good.
it was weak with only 6 low slots. With 7 it will be ok. |
Mariner6
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
126
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:02:00 -
[224] - Quote
Anna Verhyldvar wrote:Sinzor Aumer wrote: Sentry drones are overpowered. 150 km with 1 omnilink, seriously?
Yes, what a lovely number it makes in the "Show info" window. Of course, to actually HIT anything out at that range, you'd need several Drone Link Augmentors (4, I think), and since the Dominix has a base targeting range of 70km, you'll need to fit 2 Sensor Boosters with targeting range scripts, or a few signal amplifiers. So, wow, after using 4 high slots and 3 mid slots (or 1 mid and 3-4 lows), you can finally target and hit something at 150km. Oh and then you'll be doing kinetic damage, in fairly low amounts. Whoop de frickin doo.
Great post, hilarious. The only you forgot to add was "or you could just fly a Apoc or a Rokh and do it 10 times better." |
Adriel Malakai
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
310
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:03:00 -
[225] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good.
It's because they can't take advantage of it while in a fleet with 100 other people, therefore it's bad.
Don't you know, solo/small gang pvp is dead. No blob, no pvp. |
Frothgar
V0LTA Verge of Collapse
69
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:03:00 -
[226] - Quote
Any chance you could address the issue of BS mass interacting with wormholes while you're on BS? They're just too massive to bring in any gang (You're limited to ~10bs if you want to return)
Battleships are fun and more fleet variety is always fun. I'd just love so way of bringing a viable BS gang through wormholes without leading to cap blobs. |
Pattern Clarc
Aperture Harmonics
437
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:04:00 -
[227] - Quote
Just in case this is a mock gallente battleship rebalance just to make your REAL OFFER more appealing....
Hype 8/4/7 5% damage, 7.5% tracking
Megathron 7/5/7 5% ROF 7.5% Active tanking strength and cap usage.
Dominic 6/6/7 10% drone bonuses.....
Or something. Ex CSM member & Designer of the Tornado. Gallente - Pilot satisfaction |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
546
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:05:00 -
[228] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Michael Harari wrote:I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good. it was weak with only 6 low slots. With 7 it will be ok.
With 7 its useless since you just get neuted and explode |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1226
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:05:00 -
[229] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:I do understand some statistics... I understood the comment as meaning that I had guessed wrongly about where all the damage is coming from.
For further sake of argument - Hyp is number 3 for pvp damage over the last 150 days. I know how many beers you drink, trust me!
Mega will be No. 3 for pvp damage after the changes since it will be the shield tanked gank boat. What happens to the Hyperion then?
Gallente need a "survivable brawler" at the BS level - give the Hyperion a remote reps received bonus. All those high sec gankers have neutral RR boosts anyways, so it won't affect their playstyle one bit. |
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
1996
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:06:00 -
[230] - Quote
With the domi switching to a drone DPS platform.... you should consider moving one of it's highs to a midslot or lowslot position.
It's powergrid often limits fully utilizing 6 highslots, and they're now delegated as a secondary function anyway... |
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Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
37
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:09:00 -
[231] - Quote
Adriel Malakai wrote:Michael Harari wrote:I really dont see why people hate on the armor rep bonus. Its really really good. It's because they can't take advantage of it while in a fleet with 100 other people, therefore it's bad. Don't you know, solo/small gang pvp is dead. No blob, no pvp. Tell that to the Neutralizers that will land on you the second they target you.
It doesn't take 100 to kill your cap. |
IrJosy
Club 1621 Goonswarm Federation
29
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:10:00 -
[232] - Quote
I was originally pretty mad about the domi. However after further consideration, as someone who can afford to fly and lose vindicators, I realize this change doesn't really affect me. Sucks to be space poor!
I could warm up to the hype changes if it got a little more grid/cpu ,but the mega change is unforgiveable. |
Rysis Vyvorant
Engineering Evolutions Limited S2N Citizens
6
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:10:00 -
[233] - Quote
What are you doing to the Domi? You have effectively killed it as a PVE ship. Those mids are now useless unless your shield tank. However, you go shield tank and you lose the tracking computers so the mag stabs are doing nothing due to the guns missing.
Great way to make Gallente a terrible race. I agree with what has been said about all the ships. You guys seem to have no direction at all. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction Whores in space
63
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:12:00 -
[234] - Quote
What i get angry is that CCP made exaclty what I feared, made the megatron STEAL completely the role of the tempest. The remainder role of heavy neut ship was stolen by the geddon. |
Bap1811
Brave Newbies Inc.
7
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:14:00 -
[235] - Quote
I'm not sure I agree with these changes from a solo/small gang perspective.
The Hyperion is a great ship in its current state as far as "stats" go. It reps alot, it deals decent bit of damage and it has alot of mids, its one of the better active armor tanks (probably the only one tbh). The main problems it has is applying damage, but thats just like all BS, and I went abit more indepth in my previous post in your other thread.
The changes are a straight up nerf, running an active armor tank with a single cap booster (which is what your forcing people to do with only 4 mids AKA web tackle speed mod cap booster) is suicide, it doesnt really work, heavy blasters just take too big a toll on top of some MWDing AND the reps.
The Megathron is an iffy one, I ******* love the mega and it hurts to see it sacrifice its armor version to be able to fit a shield version.
If you take a standard buffer armor fit, this is also a straight nerf to it, you're losing that low (either a 1600 or a mag stab) which is a straight nerf to tank/damage and adding a mid. Except no one really needs that mid (ECCM is usefull but not worth losing 200 DPS or 20K EHP, nothing is worth that actually, the best thing you can add is probably a second web to be able to hit BCs effectively).
I guess we'll see how the shield version works out, I doubt it'll be worth it. I'm deffinitly expecting it to be faster and that might work out but I expect some sort of gimmicky glass cannon fit with little EHP. I remember when shield brutixes were all the rage. It might be good for incursions right?
Unfortunatly the Dominix changes also make me sad, the DPS bonus on the blasters kinda gave it that competitive edge in straight up fights. The tracking/range bonuses dont seem very usefull. Keeping in mind Ogres had no problems hitting a webbed BCs I dont see whats the point of giving them better tracking, to hit cruisers? I'm not sure how removing DPS against BCs and BS (important) and adding possible DPS against cruisers(meh) is a good choice. This change just confuses me.
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SpeedY G0nZaleZ
Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore
17
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:14:00 -
[236] - Quote
I like the changes. But I am looking at that poor Hyperion.
It always struck me as odd that Gallente ships never had an EWAR platform at the BS level. Perhaps adding a third bonus to damp strength (and a midslot?) would make these brawling monsters in small gang.
Adding a midslot may be imbalanced if you are adding a low (which it does need). Considering you are going to have to run an MWD and an injector maybe just adding a pretty high (+100% at lvl 5) bonus would make this able to dictate pwn in small fights. |
Johan March
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
20
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:16:00 -
[237] - Quote
Mariner6 wrote:Anna Verhyldvar wrote:Sinzor Aumer wrote: Sentry drones are overpowered. 150 km with 1 omnilink, seriously?
Yes, what a lovely number it makes in the "Show info" window. Of course, to actually HIT anything out at that range, you'd need several Drone Link Augmentors (4, I think), and since the Dominix has a base targeting range of 70km, you'll need to fit 2 Sensor Boosters with targeting range scripts, or a few signal amplifiers. So, wow, after using 4 high slots and 3 mid slots (or 1 mid and 3-4 lows), you can finally target and hit something at 150km. Oh and then you'll be doing kinetic damage, in fairly low amounts. Whoop de frickin doo. Great post, hilarious. The only you forgot to add was "or you could just fly a Apoc or a Rokh and do it 10 times better."
I know this is being snarky and you guys put a lot of work into this, but it's the crux of the opposition here. The Gallente ships are based on a lot of "we're going to fix that" down the road (e.g. drones and active armor tanking). Meanwhile a lot of newbies will be going Gallente because the ships look cool and they support freedom and liberal democracy. And then find out, like many players, that a lot of their chosen race's ships suck. |
Sinzor Aumer
Atlas Research Group Aerodyne Collective
120
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:17:00 -
[238] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.
There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.
Thanks for the feedback Yes, Hyper is in trouble but Domi is a complete disaster. Please bring it back. You guys seriously think that it is fun to fit a ship that can only be fit one way? More versatility, damn it, not less!
But if you need some fresh ideas for Hype - here you have it. In fact, take a look at it's picture. See that? The engines! Increase it's max speed like seriously, up to 170, but make it's agility the worst ever. Now you have a brawler that can get in range, wreck havoc, and gtfo. |
Plyn
Dominatus Imperium
57
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:19:00 -
[239] - Quote
So glad I've been cross training. Hossenfeffer. |
Galmas
United System's Commonwealth R.E.P.O.
88
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Posted - 2013.04.08 19:19:00 -
[240] - Quote
I haven't slept about it yet but so far i cannot find much good about these changes.
Megathron: is there any particular reason to ruin an overall OK bs? Attack role? how does it move into attack role by loosing DSP and Tank? thats way too much nerf. Do folks really care about that med slot? what you want on an armor gunship bs are low slots and drones which can deal with targets your guns can't deal with (topic of projecting damage). pretty hefty nerf for that ship in my eyes atm.
Dominix: well, the domi does better with the heavy neuts/energy transfer/remote rep modules anyway in pvp than with guns due to PG issues, so the large hybrid turret damage thingy is not that bad really. Making it quasi pure drone boat is an ok move.. This change wont really affect what we do with that ship anyway. I just dont understand why it needs so much more base armor, it already was massively tanky in most situations due to rarely being fitted with (big) guns for pvp. so in the end this change leaves me kind of puzzled as well.
Hyperion: no opinion, we don't use this ship
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