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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Askulf Joringer
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
6
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:00:00 -
[121] - Quote
Michael Harari wrote:Taking away a low on the hyperion makes it a worse brawler, not better.
Right now it can fit cap booster, scram, web, prop, and a 2nd cap booster, which is needed to active tank it.
Dropping a mid forces it to either go propless, in which case it is massively outclassed by the maelstrom, or drop a cap booster, in which case it is hilariously vulnerable to neuts.
Going to assume you meant mid :P
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Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
212
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:01:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:What should the Hyperion be used for? The only thing the hyp ever seemed to do very well, was brawl at close range using a decent dual rep(or sometimes tripple rep) tank. It did it solo SOMETIMES, but usually the lack of utility high and lack of projection/application bonus made that difficult, so more often it was used in small gangs as a heavy brawler that would be supported by some other ships providing extra tackle so that it could focus on tank and gank. I think it was used at least as often for a shield tanked version that just focused on putting out damage, again with some support to provide supplemental tackle. Moving the slot layout this way would hopefully reinforce performance around its bonus for armor repping. It would likely have to run 2 injectors, as it did before, and give up a piece of tackle. Since its primary purpose was not to tackle, but to absorb damage and dish it out, the low seemed more useful. We are talking (as we have been for a couple weeks) about finding a way to allow the solo pilot (since this version should be better for anyone with support) to have the same access to tackle that it had before, without giving up the increased tank. As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta.
Here is a solution for you: change active armor tanking to not rely on cap. You seem to have gone out of the way to make the AAR and ASB not the same by requiring cap usage still for the AAR. How about making cap requirement a shield boosting thing and change active armor tanking to something else? Gallente active armor tanking relies too heavily on cap. Guns need cap. Prop mod needs cap. Tank needs cap. As compared to shield, only the prop mod and unloaded ASB's need cap. It is unbalanced. Fix it.
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
267
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:01:00 -
[123] - Quote
Aliventi wrote:Ask yourself "Can this hyperion take on an abbadon, mael, or Rokh fleet?"
I think the answer is no. Rep bonus is cool and all, but I feel that an 7-8 low new bonus mega could do it. This hyperion can't. I think the Mega should be the Combat while the hyperion should be the attack. No one in their right mind is going to take out a hype fleet utilizing the rep bonus to a SOV fight. Rep bonus in fleets won't let you hold the field where Logi/triage is king. At least as an attack BS there would be more incentive to play around with it.
I appreciate what you are doing, trying new things is great. I just don't see it working the that you want it to. Oh yeah, just look at how gallente ships are at being amarr ships !!
Come on ! These are *gallente* ships ! Not *amarr* ships ! Amarr doctrine is sit, stand and shoot. No wonder why they are the best at sitting in front of an outpost, standing and shooting. You cannot make gallente better than them for this. |
Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
325
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:02:00 -
[124] - Quote
So what I'm hearing is that you're trying to base the Hyperion on the hope that active armor tanking will be fixed enough to make a comeback.
Doesn't it seem like you're putting the cart before the horse?
Tell me I'm off base here.... Not a diplo.-á |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1223
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:02:00 -
[125] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:
Megathron and Hyperion have their roles shaked up a bit, but all roles they had still exists, and I think they earn some capabilities in the end.
And for the Dominix, it's basically an integrated drone omnidirectional tracking link. Per se, it may be a bit weak in fact, as ship bonuses tend to be better than module bonuses most of the time, but that's still usefull for drones (and heavy drones have a use for this too), and that allow for sentry sniping a lot more easilly (ship bonuses are not stacking penalized).
Basically, it's a lot of changes, but I think they are mostly good. Just adapt.
Mega will be used over the Hyperion in every single case with the exception of gimmick solo repper fit. Hyperion is the one ship that absolutely needs the remote armor repping received to make it work in groups of more than two. Maybe 4%/level to keep it on par with the resistance bonus from other similar ships (along with it's self-repping bonus).
It still won't make the bonus as good as the resistance bonus (you get increased EHP with the resistance bonus), but doing this will help the ships survive better in larger groups - increasing its engagement envelope.
Really CCP, if you want to make active armor repping good, then apply the bonus two ways: o 7.5% / level self repping, 4%/level remote repping received.
There will be exceptions like the incursus, but as the hull size increases, the need for remote reps increases as well. |
Nometh Xergent
Proxima Magnus
1
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:04:00 -
[126] - Quote
Im pretty new player tho i have played a couple of months. So i dont have so much to say really, but right now im Flying the Megathron and it works pretty fun for missions. (4) But that low-slot will hurt, really much actually. I know i dont have the best tanker-skills even tho i think the Mega needs it low-slot.
And for the Domi, i kind of like the new Dominix, the boost in EHP and the drone bonus. But somehow it stil weird that a Battleship is only focused on drones when it got so many high slots. (For bonuses i mean)
- Again, this is my opinion. But im not a veteran at all.
Feel free to "re-balance" the ships CCP. But please dont **** it up because BS:s are a very important tool in the game. |
Michael Harari
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
546
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:05:00 -
[127] - Quote
My suggestion for the hyp:
Drop a gun hardpoint, give it the 10% damage bonus (gains .5 gun worth of dps).
Tweak its fitting a bit (the active armor rig changes hurt it a bunch in the fitting dept, but the loss of a gun will make up for that I suppose).
Done. (Maybe give it another flight of light drones, but i dont see a pressing need)
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BarryBonez
Ixion Defence Systems Test Alliance Please Ignore
24
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:05:00 -
[128] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:What should the Hyperion be used for? We are talking (as we have been for a couple weeks) about finding a way to allow the solo pilot (since this version should be better for anyone with support) to have the same access to tackle that it had before, without giving up the increased tank.
I'm glad that you still recognize the pilots that try to go out solo for some fun. That's what I enjoy doing most, but thanks to expensive ships, it's pretty rough right now. I can handle some ratting to get my funds up, but as it stands, a decent battlecruiser out in 0.0 runs me around 80mil fitted (t1 & t2) or 120+ for the t3. To pay this much just to roam for an hour or two through empty systems only to end up being blobbed truly tests one's patience. Sure after insurance it's maybe only a 40 mil loss, but that may take upwards of an hour to accumulate of shooting boring NPCs. I know this post may seem a little whiny, but I'm just trying to be honest here and express how trying to be a solo pilot simply is not very enjoyable at this point. Affordable battleships would definitely help to tip the scales since a well-fitted BS can handle small gangs on it's own. However, they are slow and solo roams can be loooong. If ships did not cost twice as much as they did when I started playing around 2.5 years ago, the pain of fitting one out and going out alone would be lessened. |
Akturous
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
94
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:05:00 -
[129] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Roime wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:I like the changes to the Mega and the Domi. I really hope the Domi changes transfer over to the Ishtar. Hell no, do you realize that Domi lost 50% of it's dps, and got nothing in exchange? how did it lose 50% when it lost a 25% damage bonus?
Because you could get half your damage from drones, half from guns. Vote Item Heck One for CSM8 |
Mariner6
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:06:00 -
[130] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:People are so scared of changes !
You can get back what the hyperion lost in the midslot with the low slot ; basically, only triple rep setup will really be hurt, but double rep setup will be almost as powerful and require a lot less cap.
And if utility was the problem, the Megathron will take this place.
Yet, the Hyperion will now replace the Megathron for fleet duties with lots of benefits (8 guns is good, and tier3 hp are good).
Megathron and Hyperion have their roles shaked up a bit, but all roles they had still exists, and I think they earn some capabilities in the end.
And for the Dominix, it's basically an integrated drone omnidirectional tracking link. Per se, it may be a bit weak in fact, as ship bonuses tend to be better than module bonuses most of the time, but that's still usefull for drones (and heavy drones have a use for this too), and that allow for sentry sniping a lot more easilly (ship bonuses are not stacking penalized).
Basically, it's a lot of changes, but I think they are mostly good. Just adapt.
You need two heavy cap boosters for a dual rep set up also. |
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Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
806
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:06:00 -
[131] - Quote
Akturous wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Roime wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:I like the changes to the Mega and the Domi. I really hope the Domi changes transfer over to the Ishtar. Hell no, do you realize that Domi lost 50% of it's dps, and got nothing in exchange? how did it lose 50% when it lost a 25% damage bonus? Because you could get half your damage from drones, half from guns. It still had 6 turret hard points ergo only a 25% drop in damage Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7409
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:07:00 -
[132] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:loss of the launcher slot for those of us who wanted to go pure DPS
Yes the Megathron is surely at a loss not being able to fit an unbonused HML to gain a whole 20 DPS ~my isk/hr~ mine quotes from my posts at your peril, badposters TheMittani.com: The premier source for news, commentary and discussion of EVE Online and other games of interest. Malcanis for CSM 8 |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Newbs Fighting Back
44
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:08:00 -
[133] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:What should the Hyperion be used for? The only thing the hyp ever seemed to do very well, was brawl at close range using a decent dual rep(or sometimes tripple rep) tank. It did it solo SOMETIMES, but usually the lack of utility high and lack of projection/application bonus made that difficult, so more often it was used in small gangs as a heavy brawler that would be supported by some other ships providing extra tackle so that it could focus on tank and gank. I think it was used at least as often for a shield tanked version that just focused on putting out damage, again with some support to provide supplemental tackle. Moving the slot layout this way would hopefully reinforce performance around its bonus for armor repping. It would likely have to run 2 injectors, as it did before, and give up a piece of tackle. Since its primary purpose was not to tackle, but to absorb damage and dish it out, the low seemed more useful. We are talking (as we have been for a couple weeks) about finding a way to allow the solo pilot (since this version should be better for anyone with support) to have the same access to tackle that it had before, without giving up the increased tank. As I said in the OP, we are in a tough spot with the active armor bonuses. We don't want to throw them out, they are fun to play when they work, and we have hopes that we will continue to bring them into viability with other changes. That said, in the mean time we don't want to overcorrect for their current position in the meta.
Don't give up on active armor reps! But on the second to last paragraph about finding a way to allow the solo pilot better access to tackle--buff webbing drones! Or give ships like the Hyp a buff that applies to them! This is a joke, though I'd like to see the utility drones be more useful...but I don't see why you just don't remove the cap use from AARs and make them more like ASBs, that way the hyp would not be so cap lame. Or remove a high add it to mid. |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
225
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:12:00 -
[134] - Quote
We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.
There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.
Thanks for the feedback |
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Helicity Boson
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
529
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:12:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: And along with this, why do you need 5 mids to fit 2 cap injectors?
Because you *need* 1) point 2) web 3) prop mod 4+5) two injectors
...for your Hyperion not to be even more awful than it already is.
And I'm pretty sure anyone that PVPs and can count on five fingers could have figured this out for you.
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Mariner6
Agony Unleashed Agony Empire
120
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:13:00 -
[136] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Akturous wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Roime wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:I like the changes to the Mega and the Domi. I really hope the Domi changes transfer over to the Ishtar. Hell no, do you realize that Domi lost 50% of it's dps, and got nothing in exchange? how did it lose 50% when it lost a 25% damage bonus? Because you could get half your damage from drones, half from guns. It still had 6 turret hard points ergo only a 25% drop in damage
Your forgetting heat no? Can't overheat drones. |
luredivino
Juice Indicate
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:13:00 -
[137] - Quote
Roime wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:I like the changes to the Mega and the Domi. I really hope the Domi changes transfer over to the Ishtar. Hell no, do you realize that Domi lost 50% of it's dps, and got nothing in exchange?
The dominix lost 25 percent of its turret dps, which is still a significant nerf. Without the damage bonus everyone is just going to use autocannons. The dominix needs an extra drone and +25 bandwidth, which will never happen probably.
As far as the megathron is concerned, it is going to make it much harder for new players to run missions. losing a low is going to equire either taking off a hardener or losing a magstab. It will result in an overall loss of dps which means frustrated player.
After these changes, the gallente will lack a strong pve platform. The caldari have the raven or the golem. The minmatar have the machariel or the vargur. The amarr have the apoc navy issue or the paladin. The gallente will be outdpsed by all of them. The kronos is terrible, the megathron is losing damage, the dominix is losing 25 percent of its damage and will be outdpsed by other races battlecruisers. Why fly gallente? What will make people want to fly Gallente more after these changes? |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
806
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:14:00 -
[138] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.
There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.
Thanks for the feedback No more updates today or no more for the hyp today? Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
luredivino
Juice Indicate
7
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:14:00 -
[139] - Quote
Akturous wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:Roime wrote:Fredric Wolf wrote:I like the changes to the Mega and the Domi. I really hope the Domi changes transfer over to the Ishtar. Hell no, do you realize that Domi lost 50% of it's dps, and got nothing in exchange? how did it lose 50% when it lost a 25% damage bonus? Because you could get half your damage from drones, half from guns.
You still have the guns, they just don't have a bonus anymore.
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Vincent Gaines
Cold Moon Destruction Transmission Lost
325
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:14:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.
There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.
Thanks for the feedback
Thank you Not a diplo.-á |
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Liang Nuren
Heretic Army Atrocitas
3269
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:14:00 -
[141] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Hyperion:
The Hyperion in a tight spot. We can acknowledge that for the moment active armor tanking is struggling to find a place. We know that many of you would be happier to have the Hyperion lose this bonus and pick up something more practical in today's Eve. However, we're committed to helping armor find its place, and so, to keep continuity with the rest of the Gallente line-up, the Hyp will keep its current bonuses.
It will be gaining a low slot (giving up a mid), hopefully making its purpose as a pure brawler more realistic.
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses: +5% Large Hybrid Turret damage +7.5% Armor Repair amount
Slot layout: 8H, 4M(-1), 7L(+1); 8 turrets , 0 launchers(-1) Fittings: 15750 PWG, 600 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7500 / 8000 / 8500 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 7200 / 1250s / 4.8 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 115 / .1178 / 100200000 / 16.36s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100 / 100 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 60km / 110 / 7 Sensor strength: 23 Magnetometric Sensor Strength Signature radius: 485
I highly dislike losing the ability to dual cap boost, fit a SeBo, fit an ECCM, fit a Disruptor+Scram+Web, fit dual web, and many other things. Yes, the lack of a low slot hurts, but damn man.
Quote: Megathron:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses: +5% Large Hybrid Turret rate of fire (replaces large hybrid turret damage) +7.5% Large Hybrid Turret tracking speed
Slot layout: 8H, 5M(+1), 6L(-1); 7 turrets , 0 launchers(-2) Fittings: 16000 PWG(+500), 550 CPU(+25) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 6300(+89) / 6500(-141) / 7500 Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 5800(+175) / 1087s / 5.02 (+.15) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 122(+7) / .117(-.0046) / 98400000 / 15.96s (-.63s) Drones (bandwidth / bay): 100(-25) / 125 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 72.5km / 95 / 7 Sensor strength: 21 Magnetometric Sensor Strength Signature radius: 380(-20)
You didn't need to go quite this far in changing the Mega to be an attack battleship. Lower the sig a bit, increase the speed a bit, increase the CPU a bit to help out some long standing problems.
Quote: Dominix:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses: +10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints +10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 9000 PWG, 600 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength Signature radius: 465(+45)
What... no. Just, no.
-Liang Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?) Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Grendell
Technologies Unlimited Superior Eve Engineering
572
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:15:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:We hear you guys about the Hyp - I think we're going to have a day to let the feedback keep settling and give us some time to talk it over and we'll give you an update tomorrow.
There's some good suggestions in here, but its not a simple problem so I don't want us committed to anything too quickly.
Thanks for the feedback
But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1223
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:15:00 -
[143] - Quote
BarryBonez wrote: So then you wonder when sitting still isnt a big deal... camping? Well your sig res is so ****** that you can't lock anything quick enough to fire a shot, so maybe you end up just assigning them to a frig or something. Assign drones to your tackle. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
1223
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:17:00 -
[144] - Quote
Grendell wrote:But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years. I have to say that the Gallente (faction) cruiser and below lineup is very strong after the current rebalance. Myrm engagement envelope is swallowed up by the Prophecy (but the only regular BC I see in low sec now is the Prophecy), but otherwise it has been good so far.
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Kobea Thris
Inquisition FiS Division Surely You're Joking
1
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Posted - 2013.04.08 17:17:00 -
[145] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Quote:What should the Hyperion be used for? The only thing the hyp ever seemed to do very well, was brawl at close range using a decent dual rep(or sometimes tripple rep) tank. It did it solo SOMETIMES, but usually the lack of utility high and lack of projection/application bonus made that difficult, so more often it was used in small gangs as a heavy brawler that would be supported by some other ships providing extra tackle so that it could focus on tank and gank. I think it was used at least as often for a shield tanked version that just focused on putting out damage, again with some support to provide supplemental tackle. Moving the slot layout this way would hopefully reinforce performance around its bonus for armor repping. It would likely have to run 2 injectors, as it did before, and give up a piece of tackle. Since its primary purpose was not to tackle, but to absorb damage and dish it out, the low seemed more useful.
I think the problem with this is that you have a razor thin margin for where this is actually useful. The more the gang size on both sides increases, the worse the active rep bonus becomes. If the Hyperion is meant to be a fleet ship, then the rep bonus isn't very useful. If it is meant to be a solo/small gang ship, then it needs the midslots to help round out the gang. |
Johnny Debt
Angelus Exitium
0
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:18:00 -
[146] - Quote
Please leave the Dominix's bonuses what they are and don't change them. I believe the ship would be well balanced with just the increases to shield/armor/structure HP and fitting buffs. |
Ager Agemo
Imperial Collective
261
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:19:00 -
[147] - Quote
OMFG! that dominix! *-* Talk about drone firepower! give cant remove 1 high and add 1 more low tho? |
Roime
Shiva Furnace
2454
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:21:00 -
[148] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: how did it lose 50% when it lost a 25% damage bonus?
Because nobody will fit non-bonused large hybrids on it.
-á- All I really wanted was to build a castle among the stars - |
Omnathious Deninard
Extrinsic Operations
806
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:21:00 -
[149] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:CCP Rise wrote: Dominix:
Gallente Battleship Skill Bonuses: +10% Drone Damage and Drone hitpoints +10% Drone optimal range and Drone tracking speed (replaces large hybrid turret damage)
Slot layout: 6H, 5M, 7L; 6 turrets , 0 launchers Fittings: 9000 PWG, 600 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 7200(+1731) / 8000(+1789) / 8500(+1859) Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / cap per second) : 6000(+1000) / 1087s / 5.51 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 109 / .1254 / 100250000(+3150000) / 16.88s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 375 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km / 90 / 7 Sensor strength: 22 Magnetometric Sensor Strength Signature radius: 465(+45)
What... no. Just, no. -Liang It would be quite viable if it gets a role bonus to drone control range. If it doesn't then it will be total crap. Ideas For Drone Improvement Updated 11/30/12Catastrophic Uprising is Recruiting |
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
226
|
Posted - 2013.04.08 17:22:00 -
[150] - Quote
Quote:But do you hear us about the general problem with Gallente ships being in last place in terms of use in pvp? As there is a reason they have been in last place for years.
I can tell you from looking at internal metrics that this simply isn't true. For instance, for the last 5 days - the Hyperion has literally done the most combat damage to other player ships. The MOST. Now there may be a weird reason for this (I imagine its something to do with shield tanked ones on station undocks), but the point is that such a general declaration is unfounded.
It would be more helpful to hear about what use it ought to be filling, and in what way its falling short. My expectation for the Hyperion was that it generally would be wanting to tank and gank as much as possible, and that self-reliance for utility was secondary. What I'm hearing is that people want it to be more self reliant. If you can add to the discussion in more specific ways I would be happy to hear it. |
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