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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
1467
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Posted - 2013.05.16 18:55:00 -
[1051] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!" 2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...
Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration). 7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :) (hint, you have 8 probes)
Unless you only had < 8 probes on you, then you can't launch any.
With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.
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Kitanga
Lowsec Border Marshals
56
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Posted - 2013.05.16 19:10:00 -
[1052] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!" 2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...
Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration). 7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :) (hint, you have 8 probes)
seriously CCP Paradox, if you force the launch of 8 probes and they all move as one and resize as one, then why have 8 probes at all, just do all your new probing magic with one probe, because that is basically what you are building here, a one probe does all solution. (obviously I don't want this, i am just saying this is basically what you are building)
we continue to plea that you not destroy the current probing system (which no one was complaining about) with this new system. what i want to know is - is it even worth any of our time to even bother anymore? do you take any of the awesome posts in this thread that defend the current system into consideration at all? will you?
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Sulvorati Kunoki
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
4
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Posted - 2013.05.16 19:30:00 -
[1053] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!" 2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...
Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration). 7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :) (hint, you have 8 probes)
Paradox missing the point and being fairly rude to a paying customer to boot. Not to mention the 'all those who used the DSP for years have effectively been cheating' post.
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Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.16 20:21:00 -
[1054] - Quote
So the T2 scanning modules now require the corresponding skill at level V GÇô so much for the secondary skills now being useless I like it.
Also their effect was greatly reduced, the pinpointing module now grants -25% deviation instead of -40%. Probably reasonable. . |
Sulvorati Kunoki
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
5
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Posted - 2013.05.16 20:38:00 -
[1055] - Quote
Is the reconnect to lost probes function defunct now they auto recall INSTANTLY on jump?
If you change ships in space and then go back again you can reconnect to probes. They don't instant recall in this instance.
A corp friend tells me that probes also don't instant recall if you jump from wormhole to wormhole with extra probes in the launcher. He didn't say whether you could reconnect to them though.
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Sugar Kyle
The humbleless Crew
240
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Posted - 2013.05.16 20:41:00 -
[1056] - Quote
Any feedback on the magically reappearing probes thing? I skimmed the Dev posts and reread the OP but probes have still been possessed by magical powers allowing them to instantly teleport to the cargo hold. Tilde soaked words from something kinda like a pirate. |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
103
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Posted - 2013.05.16 21:16:00 -
[1057] - Quote
CCP completely missed the point with the new 8-probe formations.
Players: "WTF CCP, why can't I scan with fewer than 7 probes? 4 probes is enough to scan down a WH, I should be able to use only 4 probes if I only have 4 so I'm not stuck in a system. I also liked being able to use 8 probes when I wanted." CCP: "Okay, you can now only use 8 probes! :trollface:"
If for some reason I only have four probes on me, I should be allowed to use them.
Seriously, it was better before. The 8-probe "pinpoint" formation is an ugly mess and adds absolutely nothing over the previous 7 point formation. The "spread" formation at least no longer has giant gaps.
Nobody asked to use 8 probes in a single formation. People wanted the ability to launch 8 probes so they could run two simultaneous 4-probe formations, or a DSP and a 7-probe formation.
The fix would've been simple: Make the launcher, if clicked on, drop only a single probe, up to a maximum of 8 probes in space. Keep a 7-probe pinpoint formation button on the scan UI, and a 7- or 8- probe spread formation. Only launch probes into a formation if you click that button. |
M'aak'han
C-7
17
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Posted - 2013.05.16 21:17:00 -
[1058] - Quote
Yes, I'd like to know too if the probes teleporting back in the cargo is a defect or a feature.
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Space Wanderer
62
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Posted - 2013.05.16 21:17:00 -
[1059] - Quote
Ok, new changes on SISI tested. Many bugs fixed. Here is feedback.
Discovery Scanner
I am not sure I like the orange for anomalies and red for signatures. I think that green for anomalies was better, while having signatures ranging from light orange to deep red, according to the intensity of the signature.
Scanning interface
1) The list of results still needs a bit of work. Adjustable columns and font fitting. 2) Launching 8 probes is good. Being forced to launch 8 probes is bad. 3) We still need one or two customizable formations. Is it really so difficult? Honestly I thought it wasn't that hard.
Cosmic Signatures
While travelliing through highsec (about 20 systems) I could find very few signatures and NONE of them was lower than 7%. Before I could see several 1%. What gives?
Module balance
First of all, prerequisites for T2 modules is relative skill at 5. Good.
Now, about each module: 1) Only one acquisition module can be used. Min acquisition time (excpet for implants) is about 4.5 secs. Less than the 5 secs you can have now, but not much less. I think it could be considered balanced. 2) Pinpointing modules have been nerfed, but definitely not enough. I still can drop range from 8AU directly to 0.25 without losing contact. More balance is required. 3) Rangefinding modules suffer of stacking penalty not only between each other, but also with rigs and t2/sister launcher (but not with sister's probes), but offer a better bonus than them. It is still seem possible to use them to find previously "unprobable" ships without needing virtue implants. (disclaimer: i couldn't test in this build if the cap has been removed/changed) This probably needs to be changed. |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.16 21:40:00 -
[1060] - Quote
I just found a 1% sig in k-space so they are not gone.
Maybe we should have a slider for how many probes to launch, and if it is less than seven, the formations are not available, instead the launched probes will just sit all in one spot. (I assume it would be hard to make sensible formations for any possible number of probes launched.)
Personally I have no problem with the 8-or-nothing. Previously you were screwed if you only had 3 or less probes with you, now that number has changed to 8. No difference at all. Just bring always at least 20 probes, there is no reason at all to fly with less. Ever.
Chris Winter wrote:Nobody asked to use 8 probes in a single formation. People wanted the ability to launch 8 probes so they could run two simultaneous 4-probe formations, or a DSP and a 7-probe formation. Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation. . |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
69
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Posted - 2013.05.16 21:53:00 -
[1061] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote: Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.
Really. Who might they be?
I'll await your list of probing superstars. |
Sulvorati Kunoki
Global Economy Experts Stellar Economy Experts
5
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Posted - 2013.05.16 21:58:00 -
[1062] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:I just found a 1% sig in k-space so they are not gone. Maybe we should have a slider for how many probes to launch, and if it is less than seven, the formations are not available, instead the launched probes will just sit all in one spot. (I assume it would be hard to make sensible formations for any possible number of probes launched.) Personally I have no problem with the 8-or-nothing. Previously you were screwed if you only had 3 or less probes with you, now that number has changed to 8. No difference at all. Just bring always at least 20 probes, there is no reason at all to fly with less. Ever. Chris Winter wrote:Nobody asked to use 8 probes in a single formation. People wanted the ability to launch 8 probes so they could run two simultaneous 4-probe formations, or a DSP and a 7-probe formation. Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.
I have no problem scanning everything with 5 probes on TQ and I'm pretty f''ing hot at it due to practice over three or four years. I am talking about pve scanning in a wormhole here. The people who are using 8 probes are doing different pvp related things i imagine.
I have today experienced the suddenly having to use ONLY 8 probes when i only had 7 with me in wormhole space. If this goes live on TQ on Jun 4th then everyone in wormhole space needs to have 8 probes given to them or anyone with less is going to be insta-stuck!
If you can only launch a certain number (8 currently) then it is really a scan probe pack and you don't need individual probes at all - more so if they insta-recall and can't be destroyed.
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Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1445
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:01:00 -
[1063] - Quote
M'aak'han wrote:Yes, I'd like to know too if the probes teleporting back in the cargo is a defect or a feature.
From what was said it sounds like a feature. I guess CCP doesn't realize that people actually have unique tactics when it comes to probing, or they don't like said tactics.
Domanique Altares wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote: Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.
Really. Who might they be? I'll await your list of probing superstars.
I'am guessing he was being sarcastic. Improving NPE |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:21:00 -
[1064] - Quote
CCP Paradox wrote:Ginger Barbarella wrote:1. Just trained up one of my mains to Astro 5 specifically to use DSPs... now that I wasted that 3 weeks, what exactly is the benefit anymore? And don't say something inane like "5% better deviation!" 2. I find sites perfectly find and quickly with four probes... why the f**k must I now manage 7 probes? Not 5, not 6, not 8, but 7...
Sorry, this has go to be yet another inane update to a system that wasn't broken (just like the STUPID mini-game inside exploration). 7? You haven't tested out the changes have you. :) (hint, you have 8 probes)
everybody with astrometrics at ONE, launch is by default EIGHT that inculdes a 1 min old rookie, so answer his whats the point of astro 5
and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.
honestly Paradox look at your self and shudder |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5101
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:28:00 -
[1065] - Quote
There needs to be an option to launch single probes by activating the launcher. You should only dump 8 probes instantly by clicking one of the preset formations. This is a must.
Telling players to launch 8 and deactivate four, for example, is a workaround for shoddy coding, not a solution.
Brainless Bimbo wrote:everybody with astrometrics at ONE, launch is by default EIGHT that inculdes a 1 min old rookie, so answer his whats the point of astro 5
and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.
honestly Paradox look at your self and shudder What's the point of astrometrics 5? The skill bonuses, obviously. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
1446
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:28:00 -
[1066] - Quote
Brainless Bimbo wrote:
everybody with astrometrics at ONE, launch is by default EIGHT that inculdes a 1 min old rookie, so answer his whats the point of astro 5
and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.
honestly Paradox look at your self and shudder
Astrometrics skill no longer is about amount of probes launched.
Skill at operating long range scanners.
+5% scan strength per level.
-5% max scan deviation per level.
-5% scan probe scan time per level.
The 2nd part I do agree with.
Improving NPE |
Terrorfrodo
Renegade Hobbits for Mordor
451
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:29:00 -
[1067] - Quote
Sulvorati Kunoki wrote: I have no problem scanning everything with 5 probes on TQ and I'm pretty f''ing hot at it due to practice over three or four years. I am talking about pve scanning in a wormhole here. The people who are using 8 probes are doing different pvp related things i imagine.
Nope. You may think you are fast but you are not, if you only use 5 probes. While you may achieve similar speed in resolving a single signature, you will definitely need more time sweeping an entire system with ~5 or more sigs if you do not use 8 or at least 7 probes. This is a fact, because with 5 probes you cannot cover enough space and need to upsize your probes after almost every resolved signature to find the next one, then downsize again to pin it down.
With the new system where all probes are started at once, using 8 will be even more superior because it does not take more time to launch the additional probes and set them up, which currently can make using 8 probes inefficient if there are only very few sigs in the system (for example, if I just want to scan the new static after the old one has despawned or was rolled, I often use only 5 probes as well.)
It is true however that those who only used 5 or even 4 probes (lol) should be allowed to continue their inefficient ways so we good probers can rightfully feel that we are superior players. I don't want everyone to be forced to be good, people have a right to suck at EVE.
. |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:32:00 -
[1068] - Quote
Terrorfrodo wrote:
Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.
Really, where do they live?, what are they looking for?, do they make a living by exploration alone?, why do you consider them the best?, are you comparing them to your attempts?,
Are you confusing throwing every and the sink at the problem instead of using brain power and deductive skills to get the hit? |
MuraSaki Siki
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
17
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:34:00 -
[1069] - Quote
The exploration tutorial agent mission is broken
cannot access the date training site with civilian data analysor, and cant find and proof of data site |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:36:00 -
[1070] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:Brainless Bimbo wrote:
everybody with astrometrics at ONE, launch is by default EIGHT that inculdes a 1 min old rookie, so answer his whats the point of astro 5
and the changes, a chimp could be taught to get a 100% hit in 3 moves with only using the mouse.
honestly Paradox look at your self and shudder
Astrometrics skill no longer is about amount of probes launched. Skill at operating long range scanners. +5% scan strength per level. -5% max scan deviation per level. -5% scan probe scan time per level. The 2nd part I do agree with. and that will will also now be achieved by fitting a mod, the other moveable deployable in game, drones, required lvl-¦s for more in space and you get mods to add to those skill based functions. |
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Caitlyn Tufy
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Sanctuary Pact
294
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:38:00 -
[1071] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote: Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.
Really. Who might they be? I'll await your list of probing superstars.
Pretty much every serious Wormhole pilot and quite a few combat scanners. The idea with 8 probes is to both scan the current site AND search for the next site at the same time. |
M'aak'han
C-7
18
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:43:00 -
[1072] - Quote
Brooks Puuntai wrote:M'aak'han wrote:Yes, I'd like to know too if the probes teleporting back in the cargo is a defect or a feature.
From what was said it sounds like a feature. I guess CCP doesn't realize that people actually have unique tactics when it comes to probing, or they don't like said tactics.
*screams of rage* Wait... No one can hear me scream in space. Gah !! |
Brainless Bimbo
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
48
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:48:00 -
[1073] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote: Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.
Really. Who might they be? I'll await your list of probing superstars. Pretty much every serious Wormhole pilot and quite a few combat scanners. The idea with 8 probes is to both scan the current site AND search for the next site at the same time.
That-¦s with skills where you get many hits, personally with competition being as it is, i find the extra probes go to those other hits as place holders for quicker discovery while narrowing them down at the same time, only 5 are needed to pinpoint the target.
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Omnathious Deninard
The Scope Gallente Federation
1031
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Posted - 2013.05.16 22:54:00 -
[1074] - Quote
James Amril-Kesh wrote:What's the point of astrometrics 5? The skill bonuses, obviously. Except Astrometrics 4 is enough to scan down any exploration site, with any ship a T1 launcher and standard core scanner probes. For Combat scanning astrometrics 4 in a Cov-Ops ship will do the trick. Ideas For Drone Improvement Repourpose Deep Space Scanner Probes |
Chris Winter
Zephyr Corp V.A.S.T.
104
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Posted - 2013.05.16 23:18:00 -
[1075] - Quote
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Terrorfrodo wrote: Nonsense. The best probers in this game scan with 8 probes in a single formation.
Really. Who might they be? I'll await your list of probing superstars. Pretty much every serious Wormhole pilot and quite a few combat scanners. The idea with 8 probes is to both scan the current site AND search for the next site at the same time. And the 8-probe formations they gave us don't do that. |
pierre arthos
Aperture Harmonics K162
12
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Posted - 2013.05.16 23:21:00 -
[1076] - Quote
When are the subsysytems for scanning T3's being rebalanced, so that anything other than an armour Loki is actually worth using as a scanning ship again? With the new midslot modules, you have basically made 3 out of 4 ships absolutely useless in this role. With one easy stroke, you have made it much more difficult to probe down, tackle and tank people. This will reduce w-hole pvp and fun for hundreds if not thousands of players.You guys really are experts at dropping the ball, aren't you? |
James Amril-Kesh
4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance
5101
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Posted - 2013.05.17 00:07:00 -
[1077] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:James Amril-Kesh wrote:What's the point of astrometrics 5? The skill bonuses, obviously. Except Astrometrics 4 is enough to scan down any exploration site, with any ship a T1 launcher and standard core scanner probes. For Combat scanning astrometrics 4 in a Cov-Ops ship will do the trick. And Astrometrics 5 will help you do it faster, with more accuracy. -áMy (mostly boring) Youtube channel. |
Junko Sideswipe
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
170
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Posted - 2013.05.17 00:52:00 -
[1078] - Quote
Thanks for putting all the stuff you took out back in, but I still can't right click warp to 100% probed ships on grid.
http://i.imgur.com/2FkIDvD.jpg Confederation of xXPIZZAXx CEO Watch PIZZA Videos http://www.youtube.com/user/LunchSquad |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
148
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Posted - 2013.05.17 01:51:00 -
[1079] - Quote
As I do not have Singularity set up on my computer, I have not partaken of the opportunity to test this new probing system. But what I am reading her is somewhat distressing. We MUST launch 8 probes? Why? As pointed out above, what is the difference between "8 required probes" and "one single probe". It's effectively the same thing. And it's not a good change.
I think what most people wanted when they asked for "probe formations" is the option of being able to use them. Not being forced to use them. I think most people were envisioning launching their probes, selecting some with the checkboxes, and then clicking a "formation button" - optimized for 4,5,6,7, or 8 probes. Or they could choose not to, and go about using their probes how they please. Kinda leaves the choice up to the pilot.
I understand that this is meant to help make probing easier for the novice. Which is nice and all. However, it shouldn't be done at the expense of versatility (efficient or not) used by more experienced players. That's taking away part of the sandbox nature of the game and leads to cries of "dumbing down" which may or may not be correct. A feature should be optional, not mandated.
P.S. - Plus this whole "auto-recover probes". If you can't lose your probes, why even bother having them? Just roll the cost into the module. Make it a module that just lets you move a magic probing dot around on the map. Cuz that's pretty much all it seems to be now. Hopefully I am completely wrong about all of this, and merely a victim of sensationalist kneejerk reactions on the forums.... but I doubt it. |
MuraSaki Siki
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
17
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Posted - 2013.05.17 02:13:00 -
[1080] - Quote
in the new build, 8 probes require to launch them,
after you launch 8, you can call one back, but you cant launch it back until you recover 2 probe and left 6 outside
02:05:46NotifyYou cannot launch Combat Scanner Probe I because you are already controlling 7 probes, as much as you have skill to.
1. 8 core probe out 2. recover one, cannot launch it back 3. recover one more, then you can launch 2 (combat) out
but now you being handicap if you want 7 + 1 probes out,
4. recover one combat probe, cannot launch core probe , the notification said you max 7 probes 5. recover one more combat probe, then you can launch 2 core probe back,
second thing is, now it's quite hard to get a octahedron formation as the probe arrange with some angle between them |
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