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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 30 post(s) |
Daishan Auergni
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
18
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 15:07:00 -
[5581] - Quote
Arec Bardwin wrote:marVLs wrote: automatically overheated guns when in bastion without taking heat damage The automatic overheat guns stuff would be pretty cool. Except that would be an automatic buff to DPS... which is not on the table of things CCP is going to consider. Power creep much?
CCP isn't going to buff dps when they're bumping up application with the optimal/falloff/range bonus in the bastion module.
In small scale pvp where dread blapping isn't likely (say a hi-sec war) a pair of bastioned marauders would be hard as hell to lock down if they're MJD'ing where they can cover the other, clearing frigs off each other. If they can't be locked down, they can dictate range 100KM at a time.
IF this gets more marauders into PvP, CCP will call that a win. |
BrandKuiken
Ouroboros Consortium
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 15:30:00 -
[5582] - Quote
As the Vargur and Golem are my main ships and lvl 4 missions are my main income, I have some issues with the new ideas. From my point of view, the marauders class in general (as T2 ships are designed for specializing) is to specialize in PVE/missions. Currently their benefits over pirate BS are better tank, more efficient ammo use, tractor beam range and cargohold.
It seems after rubicon that the marauders will be losing most of this specialization. Tractor beam deployed module now means Faction BS share similar ability. MJD takes most function away from 48km tractor beams. Ships are being reduced in speed now to limit ability of afterburners.
During missions I rarely find myself sitting still and constantly moving around to collect wrecks, meaning the bastion module would lesson the current isk/hr rate of marauders instead of increasing it.
I suggest that the bastion module also further increase the range of tractor beams to give it a defined advantage in a PVE role over pirate BS. |
Elfi Wolfe
University of Caille Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 15:55:00 -
[5583] - Quote
BrandKuiken wrote:As the Vargur and Golem are my main ships and lvl 4 missions are my main income, I have some issues with the new ideas. From my point of view, the marauders class in general (as T2 ships are designed for specializing) is to specialize in PVE/missions. Currently their benefits over pirate BS are better tank, more efficient ammo use, tractor beam range and cargohold.
It seems after rubicon that the marauders will be losing most of this specialization. Tractor beam deployed module now means Faction BS share similar ability. MJD takes most function away from 48km tractor beams. Ships are being reduced in speed now to limit ability of afterburners.
During missions I rarely find myself sitting still and constantly moving around to collect wrecks, meaning the bastion module would lesson the current isk/hr rate of marauders instead of increasing it.
I suggest that the bastion module also further increase the range of tractor beams to give it a defined advantage in a PVE role over pirate BS.
MJD is 100km.. so you can salvage wrecks 48km near.. MJD to other side. then you just have to move 4 km to get the wrecks that was at 49km from your first position.
"Please point to the place on the doll where the carebear touched you." |
baltec1
Bat Country
8215
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 16:02:00 -
[5584] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: while happy to stand corrected, dose bastion fit into any?
I can make it work in a few frigate and cruiser gangs. They will be most fun in small roaming, defence fleets and solo though. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
318
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:35:00 -
[5585] - Quote
How about drop the tractor bonus for a +3 warp core strength? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Outz Xacto
Echelon Munitions
39
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:38:00 -
[5586] - Quote
Elfi Wolfe wrote:
MJD is 100km.. so you can salvage wrecks 48km near.. MJD to other side. then you just have to move 4 km to get the wrecks that was at 49km from your first position.
Or you could have just moved 1km /facepalm.
I think what you're meaning is anything in a 52km-148km range using a MJD allows you to have "quicker" access to. Of course the 52km should be reviewed in terms of spool up time vs just using a MWD to move into range, so the low end range may be more like 55km-60km (keeping in mind if you're already moving close to 800km+/sec, still moving that fast while tractoring means it will be pulled in faster than a sitting ship). |
BrandKuiken
Ouroboros Consortium
3
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 17:42:00 -
[5587] - Quote
Elfi Wolfe wrote:MJD is 100km.. so you can salvage wrecks 48km near.. MJD to other side. then you just have to move 4 km to get the wrecks that was at 49km from your first position.
While this sounds plausible, wrecks are generally in random directions, so you can easily have wrecks in 80km in one direction and 80km in another direction, MJD to one set of wrecks and find yourself 180km from the others.
From my point of view, if you're going to increase the effective killing range of a marauder (25% optimal 25% falloff), you might as well increase the marauder's effective role bonus along with it (50% tractor beam) ~70km tractor beams would make the bastion module very viable and give it a distinct advantage to a pirate BS without making it more powerful than a noctis which is a ship specialized to salvaging that most Pirate BS pilots utilize. |
Mer88
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 18:07:00 -
[5588] - Quote
BrandKuiken wrote:Elfi Wolfe wrote:MJD is 100km.. so you can salvage wrecks 48km near.. MJD to other side. then you just have to move 4 km to get the wrecks that was at 49km from your first position.
While this sounds plausible, wrecks are generally in random directions, so you can easily have wrecks in 80km in one direction and 80km in another direction, MJD to one set of wrecks and find yourself 180km from the others. From my point of view, if you're going to increase the effective killing range of a marauder (25% optimal 25% falloff), you might as well increase the marauder's effective role bonus along with it (50% tractor beam) ~70km tractor beams would make the bastion module very viable and give it a distinct advantage to a pirate BS without making it more powerful than a noctis which is a ship specialized to salvaging that most Pirate BS pilots utilize.
with stacking penalty on the range bonus of bastion mode, i dont you it would be wise to use more than 2 range modules/riggs on the ship. I think the range bonus on the bastion mode is design to free up some range riggs or modules so you can use the empty slots for mwd or mjd or tracking computer. if you dont change any modules in the TQ vargur, the bastion bonus will be stack penalize to almost notihng.(something like 5km more falloff?) |
Jake Sake
Boa Innovations Brothers of Tangra
4
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 18:31:00 -
[5589] - Quote
The "transformation" is a joke. At least for Vargur. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
320
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 19:19:00 -
[5590] - Quote
Jake Sake wrote:The "transformation" is a joke. At least for Vargur. Have you seen the "new" Golem, or as I'm fond of calling it - the "Platypus". I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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baltec1
Bat Country
8222
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 19:30:00 -
[5591] - Quote
Jake Sake wrote:The "transformation" is a joke. At least for Vargur.
Pop the hood. |
Shivanthar
Thrilling Institution of TaTas Permanent Mental Syndrome
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 19:55:00 -
[5592] - Quote
BrandKuiken wrote:As the Vargur and Golem are my main ships and lvl 4 missions are my main income, I have some issues with the new ideas. From my point of view, the marauders class in general (as T2 ships are designed for specializing) is to specialize in PVE/missions. Currently their benefits over pirate BS are better tank, more efficient ammo use, tractor beam range and cargohold.
It seems after rubicon that the marauders will be losing most of this specialization. Tractor beam deployed module now means Faction BS share similar ability. MJD takes most function away from 48km tractor beams. Ships are being reduced in speed now to limit ability of afterburners.
During missions I rarely find myself sitting still and constantly moving around to collect wrecks, meaning the bastion module would lesson the current isk/hr rate of marauders instead of increasing it.
I suggest that the bastion module also further increase the range of tractor beams to give it a defined advantage in a PVE role over pirate BS.
I defended exactly same opinions in the past pages. I also remember that something like wreck tractor platform which will pull the wrecks together from far away. I think I saw that on the ccp rubicon preview. That is my only hope for now. No matter what we will be writing, the design is on the sisi. Even though I personally didn't like current design, something like this will make its way into tq.
There is not much to say, because people really find these changes interesting and appealing. Some of them think that these changes will solve current Marauder problems. I hope they will, because I've been playing with my Vargur all the time, and I don't feel the same enjoyment as I felt in the past during sisi testing. Meh for me. |
Shivanthar
Thrilling Institution of TaTas Permanent Mental Syndrome
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 20:01:00 -
[5593] - Quote
Jake Sake wrote:The "transformation" is a joke. At least for Vargur.
I looked close to my Vargur and couldn't notice any change? I think I am disappointed on that side also. Expecting something like retracting/ overlapping shield wings etc... Soemthing bigger at least. |
Shivanthar
Thrilling Institution of TaTas Permanent Mental Syndrome
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 20:17:00 -
[5594] - Quote
Shivanthar wrote:Jake Sake wrote:The "transformation" is a joke. At least for Vargur. I looked close to my Vargur and couldn't notice any change? I think I am disappointed on that side also. Expecting something like retracting / overlapping shield wings etc... Something bigger at least.
Oh now I see, an armor is brought through the shield planes. That animation should be more attractive and visible. Lightning is required on those armor plates. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
1526
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:05:00 -
[5595] - Quote
Really wish the animations were about 15x more dramatic. BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
Shivanthar
Thrilling Institution of TaTas Permanent Mental Syndrome
33
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:09:00 -
[5596] - Quote
Garviel Tarrant wrote:Really wish the animations were about 15x more dramatic.
When I heard the word "transform" for the first time, this was what I expected: http://youtu.be/veyX-miC4VM?t=16s
:P At least something in a similar way :P
Edit: Wouldn't it be cool to transform like this in front of an exotic dancer and simply tell her "My name is Vargur Prime" :P
I think I'm loosing it :D |
TheFace Asano
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:12:00 -
[5597] - Quote
Mer88 wrote:BrandKuiken wrote:Elfi Wolfe wrote:MJD is 100km.. so you can salvage wrecks 48km near.. MJD to other side. then you just have to move 4 km to get the wrecks that was at 49km from your first position.
While this sounds plausible, wrecks are generally in random directions, so you can easily have wrecks in 80km in one direction and 80km in another direction, MJD to one set of wrecks and find yourself 180km from the others. From my point of view, if you're going to increase the effective killing range of a marauder (25% optimal 25% falloff), you might as well increase the marauder's effective role bonus along with it (50% tractor beam) ~70km tractor beams would make the bastion module very viable and give it a distinct advantage to a pirate BS without making it more powerful than a noctis which is a ship specialized to salvaging that most Pirate BS pilots utilize. with stacking penalty on the range bonus of bastion mode, i dont you it would be wise to use more than 2 range modules/riggs on the ship. I think the range bonus on the bastion mode is design to free up some range riggs or modules so you can use the empty slots for mwd or mjd or tracking computer. if you dont change any modules in the TQ vargur, the bastion bonus will be stack penalize to almost notihng.(something like 5km more falloff?)
Short range ammo it is around 10km falloff extra, and with Barrage about 15-20km extra. It is fairly week, and it seems the Kronos / Paladin make the best use of the bonus. |
Aglais
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
417
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:19:00 -
[5598] - Quote
BrandKuiken wrote:As the Vargur and Golem are my main ships and lvl 4 missions are my main income, I have some issues with the new ideas. From my point of view, the marauders class in general (as T2 ships are designed for specializing) is to specialize in PVE/missions. Currently their benefits over pirate BS are better tank, more efficient ammo use, tractor beam range and cargohold.
It seems after rubicon that the marauders will be losing most of this specialization. Tractor beam deployed module now means Faction BS share similar ability. MJD takes most function away from 48km tractor beams. Ships are being reduced in speed now to limit ability of afterburners.
During missions I rarely find myself sitting still and constantly moving around to collect wrecks, meaning the bastion module would lesson the current isk/hr rate of marauders instead of increasing it.
I suggest that the bastion module also further increase the range of tractor beams to give it a defined advantage in a PVE role over pirate BS.
Here's another good idea.
Let's stop treating PvE as a "role". Because it's not a role.
Who ever talks about PvP as a "role"? Nobody. That's because in order to be PvP capable, a ship must actually have certain roles that it performs well to have some sort of application. One of the big problems I keep seeing here is that everyone keeps assuming that PvE is in fact a "role".
No.
PvE, like PvP, is a category of interactions the player can take with some aspect of the game universe. A role would be how the ship actually carries those interactions out, or even what sorts of things they can and cannot do. It doesn't make sense to say "It does PvE" to me, because it's such a vague and undefined blanket statement that the ship more or less doesn't do anything. Instead of that, let's consider a different direction. Letting the ship's role decide what it's capable of doing, PvE OR PvP. Which implies that care must be taken to actually consider activities in either 'half' of the game. You could fit the ship in one way to maximize performance in a certain role that fits best with PvE content. And then, you could fit it in another way, which allows it's stats to be more aligned towards PvP.
If every ship in the game could to some extent do this, we'd have a much better game, IMO. |
TheFace Asano
Yulai Guard 1st Fleet Yulai Federation
40
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:28:00 -
[5599] - Quote
BrandKuiken wrote:As the Vargur and Golem are my main ships and lvl 4 missions are my main income, I have some issues with the new ideas. From my point of view, the marauders class in general (as T2 ships are designed for specializing) is to specialize in PVE/missions. Currently their benefits over pirate BS are better tank, more efficient ammo use, tractor beam range and cargohold.
It seems after rubicon that the marauders will be losing most of this specialization. Tractor beam deployed module now means Faction BS share similar ability. MJD takes most function away from 48km tractor beams. Ships are being reduced in speed now to limit ability of afterburners.
During missions I rarely find myself sitting still and constantly moving around to collect wrecks, meaning the bastion module would lesson the current isk/hr rate of marauders instead of increasing it.
I suggest that the bastion module also further increase the range of tractor beams to give it a defined advantage in a PVE role over pirate BS.
The defined role should still stay the same, as the MJD should allow for positioning, it just is accomplished a tad differently. I will say that the role shouldn't change, if you want to salvage / pve / less ammo / bigger cargo bay you use the Marauder (also use less bling as the tank is less demanding), and if you want to do the mission quickest without salvaging then come back in the Noctis, you do so in a Pirate / Faction BS.
They are going to tweak it some more, I would suspect another iteration soon(tm) with less nerf on the hulls. Get on SiSi and test it out, I like them quite a bit after playing them for a bit. The Vargur is superior for Arties than other options because of Alpha + best Optimal / Fallofff range. The bonus works better for the long range platforms, and the Falloff even out to 120km should do pretty decent damge. The Bastion is a "oh sh*t" button with any of the long range guns. 30% resists and 100% bonus to rep is like 3-4 extra mods, plus you can clear enemy EWAR. These will have more fit options than most ships out there, and that is a good thing. Hell you could probably armor tank the Vargur if you wanted and it would work. |
zerquse
Fallen Soldiers of Perseverance From Ashes.
5
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:37:00 -
[5600] - Quote
so basically this is for 0.0 baiting. you warp into anom with the afk cloaker in system. start shooting rats. afk cloaker warps in and points you. you activate ubertank and light your own cyno. enemy blops fleet dies to your cap fleet? is this the afk cloaker nerf ccp? |
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BrandKuiken
Ouroboros Consortium
7
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 21:52:00 -
[5601] - Quote
My main point was: Why isn't the Bastion Mode increasing the range of tractor beams along with weapons.
What's the advantage of having a Marauder if you kill something well beyond tractor beam range and your targets are not all grouped together.
Or perhaps I shouldn't complain since the extra high slot will allow an extra cap transfer for my pair of marauders so I can swap from AB to MWD and completely ignore Bastion mode completely. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
321
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 22:44:00 -
[5602] - Quote
BrandKuiken wrote:My main point was: Why isn't the Bastion Mode increasing the range of tractor beams along with weapons.
What's the advantage of having a Marauder if you kill something well beyond tractor beam range and your targets are not all grouped together.
Or perhaps I shouldn't complain since the extra high slot will allow an extra cap transfer for my pair of marauders so I can swap from AB to MWD and completely ignore Bastion mode completely. Who cares about tractor beams. The new salvage module in Rubicon will be OP... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
777
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 22:49:00 -
[5603] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:BrandKuiken wrote:My main point was: Why isn't the Bastion Mode increasing the range of tractor beams along with weapons.
What's the advantage of having a Marauder if you kill something well beyond tractor beam range and your targets are not all grouped together.
Or perhaps I shouldn't complain since the extra high slot will allow an extra cap transfer for my pair of marauders so I can swap from AB to MWD and completely ignore Bastion mode completely. Who cares about tractor beams. The new salvage module in Rubicon will be OP... We have yet to necessarily confirm that. |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
321
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 22:52:00 -
[5604] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:We have yet to necessarily confirm that. Stored in cargo, drags loot to a central location, frees up x number of high slots for smart bombs, etc. Sounds good on paper anyway... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
777
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:07:00 -
[5605] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:We have yet to necessarily confirm that. Stored in cargo, drags loot to a central location, frees up x number of high slots for smart bombs, etc. Sounds good on paper anyway... On paper sounds great, devil is in the details though. |
HOSTYUT
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:18:00 -
[5606] - Quote
Quick question about Bastion Mode. When activated you can't jump,dock, etc. What i'm curious about is once your cycle has ended, is there still a cool down or can we jump/dock up? Thanks |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
321
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:24:00 -
[5607] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:On paper sounds great, devil is in the details though. 'Devil' being the operative word here...
HOSTYUT wrote:Quick question about Bastion Mode. When activated you can't jump,dock, etc. What i'm curious about is once your cycle has ended, is there still a cool down or can we jump/dock up? Thanks After the cycle ends you're probably dead, so you can do whatever you want with your pod. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
198
|
Posted - 2013.10.14 23:48:00 -
[5608] - Quote
HOSTYUT wrote:Quick question about Bastion Mode. When activated you can't jump,dock, etc. What i'm curious about is once your cycle has ended, is there still a cool down or can we jump/dock up? Thanks
There is a 60 second weapons timer that runs after the last cycle ends. You can move and warp immediately after cycle (after you've gained speed and aligned, of course), but cannot jump or dock up until the weapons timer ends. As far as cooldown is concerned, I don't believe they have one, so if you leave bastion you should be able to return to bastion immediately afterwards. |
Serge SC
The Valhalla Project
53
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 00:14:00 -
[5609] - Quote
You can end your bastion cycle and immediately rebastion, no cooldown between cycles. Weapon timers start the moment the bastion cycle ends. However, so far, that has not delayed me, not the timer, but rather the waiting for the cycle to end. Most missions you can warp in, bastion, shoot, get full agro, debastion, jump out, bastion, kill everything, that tries to get close, debastion, jump back, end the rest, activate gate and repeat or warp out at the end. No issues with weapon timers so far.
I find it particularly annoying that to "master" a marauder you require that many drone skills, for a ship that can barely carry drones... Serge SC Le Frenchman Friendly FC |
Arthur Aihaken
The.VOID
322
|
Posted - 2013.10.15 00:27:00 -
[5610] - Quote
Serge SC wrote:I find it particularly annoying that to "master" a marauder you require that many drone skills, for a ship that can barely carry drones... A drone nerf to Marauders? Surely you jest... I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
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