That's 78.5km falloff, 4.8km optimal. You are wrong.

Edit: put out some flames :)

Was brought up some 170 pages ago or so.

CCP is concerned with overpowered pulse laser fits, that's why the optimal bonus is above a meta 14 officer TC, yet falloff is below tech 2.

Good I am saving 40 mil on each of my kronos.

hmm, sisi showed 82km. I might have had one falloff implant not sure. I don't have cybernetics 5 though, just 4 so it wouldn't have been the top of the line one. I expect all mission runners have implants or at least mission runner clones with decent implants?

Is that 78.6km falloff or total range (falloff+optimal?) Will a single implant make up the difference?

Was brought up some 170 pages ago or so.

CCP is concerned with overpowered pulse laser fits, that's why the optimal bonus is above a meta 14 officer TC, yet falloff is below tech 2.

Now.. check the difference for peopel that used only the MJD (on some missiosn you did that)... and suddenly that gate taht was 8 km away is even more infuriating.

And if that speeds doe snto make so much difference as you claim, WHY NERF IT? Specially sicne the vargeur is the marauder that gets the LEAST form the bastion module ?

Way to miss the point. Falloff is not optimal.

T3s can now refit on the fly with the mobile depot. Marauders are now somewhat obsolete.

T3s can now refit on the fly with the mobile depot. Marauders are now somewhat obsolete.

You were using a Sisi Kronos vs a Tq Machariel, Do your TQ times reflect salvage? Or do you not salvage with the Kronos?

What are your TQ Kronos times like?

The sisi times are using Bastion correct? and are you using the same ship for each?

I also agree that Salvage / LP conversion are not to be normally counted for ship(a1) to ship(a2) comparisons but salvage is an important part of the equation when comparing ship(a1) to ship (b1)

Also i wasnt asking that question directly to you [hmskrecik] though i am happy that you attempted to answer it. It was to Anize Oramara, of whom i also would like to read some stats from.

Can they refit subsystems? Can they do over 1k dps? Can they loot 800m3 worth of loot adn salvage? Can they salvage on the go?
If not then how do T3s obsolete marauders?
Also their tanks are notoriously expensive. The marauder can get away with a 2-3 module T2 tank.

T3 are slated for a big nerf.

That's what everyone keeps saying, and yet...

Yes (that was the change), yes (all of them can do in excess of 1000 dps; more overheated), yes (with the new loot module) and yes (although really the Noctis is better geared towards this). You've obviously never flown any T3...

CCP have stated they will fall between T1 and T2 so a big nerf is inevitable.

I'd love to see that quote.


POS, Orca - anything that acts as a fitting station apparently (at least according to CCP).

estimates for you, im showing closer to:
~7.3km diff in 60 sec, so
~3.65km in 30 sec, and
~1.8KM in 15 sec

if the furthest stop distance distance is say 40km, the approx dmg differences respectively are
~9%
~4.5%
~2.25%

That being said, i wont do the actual numbers compare when a MJD becomes > MWD, but I would imaging that number would be higher than 60KM as at 50KM the MWD obviously wins,

A) we should avoid bastion when possible as it doesn't offer projection that comes anywhere close to compensating for the lack of mobility

B) If you need a MJD, go dual prop

The ship is worse off than it was in TQ... the gap between the vargur and the mach increased with the new looting structure. Unfortunately, i do not anticipate a change and do not anticipate another dev response before Nov 19, I will just hope the nerf to the mach is gracious.... Gallente BS V added to skill queue. RIP vargur (11/19/13)

Considering how desperate we've been for this I am genuinely surprised I haven't heard about this before. Is the change on sisi yet?

Considering how desperate we've been for this I am genuinely surprised I haven't heard about this before. Is the change on sisi yet?

I'd love to see that quote.

There is one in the old HAC thread, several more scattered about. We have known this for the last six months, you should know about it if you have been paying any attention, CCP do not want T3 overshadowing T2 hulls.

Would you mind a bit more number juggling?

Assume TQ Vargur goes 1200m/s and on SiSi goes 1000m/s (with the same fit on TQ is actually a bit slower and on SiSi is a bit faster but numbers go nicer this way).

In such situation in 45 seconds TQ Vargur covers 54km. Reverting the speed equation we get that to cover the same distance the SiSi Vargur needs 54 seconds. So let's be clear, the new Vargur wil be in the same place 9 seconds later. During whole that 54 seconds let your DPS be even 10% lower (okay, that's ridiculous but let it stay, I'm making another point here). Now do you want to argue that you need to chase every sinle rat right from the start? Or that you run MWD during whole the mission? Or that all rats are nicely aligned in a single line so the distance difference accumulates beyond all tolerable levels?

Maybe instead try running some missions in different configurations and trying different styles?

Bastion's main role is tank, not projection. For projection there is MJD here.

It is noteworthy to remember we don't necessarily want them to out-damage or go faster than Pirate Battleships - instead, they tank and project damage better.
...
We also are increasing their maximum targeting range and scan resolution a bit to make use of the increased damage projection...
...
As we realized when internally playtesting iteration 2, web bonuses don't combine that well with hulls using MJDs to move around or increased projection in Bastion.
...
They are supposed to fulfill a different role / niche through their high tanks, stable weapon platforms (EW immunity, increase damage projection) and MJDs

Seriously though, my tests, I still consider them preliminary, suggest that Vargur's performance isn't significantly worse than on TQ and on TQ it was very close to Machariel. What more did you want?

Considering how they buffed HACs - let alone the new SoE ships, good luck justifying any kind of serious nerf. It's more likely they'll adjust the power grid and some of the base armor and shield stats.

I'd love to see that quote.

It's a puicture, admittedly but it's also CCP's statement on how they want the power level of the various ships to be. Have fun reading it.

Da Quote

Since we seem to have sidetracked into a discussion/argument about T3 balance, let me just leave this here for you.

This comes from the presentation during FanFest 2013 and clearly shows that in terms of absolute power, pirate ships are intended to be above T2 ships and that T3 ships are intended to be equal to Navy ships.

Please don't ask me what "absolute power" means. That's a question for Team Ship RebalancingGäó.

Just a momentary detourGǪ I'm not sure if you can necessarily equate "absolute power" with "improvement". If this is viewed as a pyramid, I see Pirate, T2 and T3 all on opposite ends of the spectrum - with Navy in the middle. I think the only thing you can take away from this is that everything is superior to T1. This was also pre-HAC and command ship rebalance, and pre-SoE ships.

Fortunately, it's a graph and not a pyramid. It's also the chart that they're using for the HAC and CS rebalance as well as the for the new Pirate ships.

I seriously doubt that they change the chart every single time they touch a ship class.