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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Dave Stark
3431
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:35:00 -
[301] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:S Byerley wrote:That's not very sociable of you. I'm not a very sociable person, or maybe it's just you. Perhaps logic just angers you?
if it did, you'd never manage to anger me. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:35:00 -
[302] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:S Byerley wrote:Tippia wrote:Cost is a product of balance, not a factor in it. If one ships requires vastly more material of the same type than another, one might rightly conclude that the price is not entirely driven by balance? Price is driven by supply & demand. It's the result of the player controlled economy.
It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3557
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:36:00 -
[303] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:S Byerley wrote:That's not very sociable of you. I'm not a very sociable person, or maybe it's just you. Perhaps logic just angers you?
You haven't been very forthcoming with logic. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
367
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:36:00 -
[304] - Quote
Funniest thread ever. Watching people refusing to accept the irrefutable :) thanks for all the laughs |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16266
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:36:00 -
[305] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:If one ships requires vastly more material of the same type than another, one might rightly conclude that the price is not entirely driven by balance? Balance is not the only factor in determining the price, no, especially not for individual ships (since the mineral basket may be skewed in one direction or another due to the current meta regarding a completely separate category of ships, thereby making even high-power/high-demand ships very cheap).
It wouldn't be much of a product if there only was one factor, now would it?
Quote:It's not though? By far the most significant factor trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by GǪthe players. The last time the cost of those materials was determined by CCP was back when trit was capped by NPC-made shuttles. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12836
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:37:00 -
[306] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: So you think we've been talking about the combat capabilities of a freighter vs catalysts all this time. Ill let you in on a little secret, freighters are basically giant shuttles, they have no combat capabilities so why would we have been talking about them in regards to that kind of balance in a freighter gank thread?
Nobody said anything about combat abilities, stop trying to change the subject.
All of the following was said by yourself, and refers to ship balancing. It has been snipped because the forum only allows 5 quotes in a post.
Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter ..... Being able to suicide a capital ship with a few cheap dessies repeatedly in High goes against that principle, devalues and imbalances the ship involved and is socially bad for EvE ..... Lol only their millions of EHP ..... How about every time a cap ship is solo it reverts to 300,000 EHP. If it dies (cus it was ratting) its the pilots fault for not having remote reps, scouts, webbers and instantly deployables cyno alts ..... Perhaps they were speaking about mining barges. In EvE every ship has base build costs, compare any ship with its base build cost vs another, the one with the higher build cost will have more survivability and perform substantially better ..... If you fail to see how build cost -> survivability -> gankabilty don't correlate I have to assume you don't actually play EvE.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:38:00 -
[307] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:S Byerley wrote: Perhaps logic just angers you?
if it did, you'd never manage to anger me.
Are you sure? People who rant about trolling are usually angry. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3557
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:38:00 -
[308] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Funniest thread ever. Watching people refusing to accept the irrefutable :) thanks for all the laughs
I have to agree with you. I really enjoyed refuting your arguments. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Darth Gustav
Interwebs Cooter Explosion Fatal Ascension
2355
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:39:00 -
[309] - Quote
Lucy Hastmena wrote:Dave Stark wrote:remind me again how it's unfair to freighter pilots that it requires over 15 pilots to kill 1 ship? ok you dont get it, no problem i explain it again, also for the really slow thinking people like you. This is not about a fight, this is about SUIZID gankers. There will be no Fight or something like that. There is even not a fault of the Freighter Pilot necessary like jumping into low sec or undocking during war. And of Course you dont need 15 Pilots, just one Player with ISBoxer will kill you and you dont have even the Chance to do anything. You cant warp away, you cant fit tank, you cant scout ( they bump you until their gank squad logged in) There is absolute nothing you can do about. Tell this guy your story, guess he needs to know: http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276 OMG people are at risk when they undock!?!?! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Dave Stark
3431
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:39:00 -
[310] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:S Byerley wrote: Perhaps logic just angers you?
if it did, you'd never manage to anger me. Are you sure? People who rant about trolling are usually angry.
i didn't rant about it; i just pointed out that you were terrible at it. |
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1248
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:41:00 -
[311] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:
It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.
Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
367
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:42:00 -
[312] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: So you think we've been talking about the combat capabilities of a freighter vs catalysts all this time. Ill let you in on a little secret, freighters are basically giant shuttles, they have no combat capabilities so why would we have been talking about them in regards to that kind of balance in a freighter gank thread?
Nobody said anything about combat abilities, stop trying to change the subject. All of the following was said by yourself, and refers to ship balancing. It has been snipped because the forum only allows 5 quotes in a post. Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter ..... Being able to suicide a capital ship with a few cheap dessies repeatedly in High goes against that principle, devalues and imbalances the ship involved and is socially bad for EvE ..... Lol only their millions of EHP ..... How about every time a cap ship is solo it reverts to 300,000 EHP. If it dies (cus it was ratting) its the pilots fault for not having remote reps, scouts, webbers and instantly deployables cyno alts ..... Perhaps they were speaking about mining barges. In EvE every ship has base build costs, compare any ship with its base build cost vs another, the one with the higher build cost will have more survivability and perform substantially better ..... If you fail to see how build cost -> survivability -> gankabilty don't correlate I have to assume you don't actually play EvE. Lol what specifically doesn't relate to the topic at hand? Or are you hoping to obfuscate? |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:42:00 -
[313] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:i didn't rant about it; i just pointed out that you were terrible at it.
You made the claim in several consecutive posts, leading me to believe you were fixated.
I apologize if there was a misunderstanding. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
367
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:43:00 -
[314] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:S Byerley wrote:
It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.
Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market. So the amounts on the bill of materials was determined by whom if not CCP? |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
169
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:44:00 -
[315] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:S Byerley wrote:
It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.
Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market. So the amounts on the bill of materials was determined by whom if not CCP?
Are you illiterate? |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12836
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:44:00 -
[316] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:S Byerley wrote: Perhaps logic just angers you?
if it did, you'd never manage to anger me. Are you sure? People who rant about trolling are usually angry. i didn't rant about it; i just pointed out that you were terrible at it. Give up Dave, he has 90% resists to logic, common sense, fallibility and decent posting.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Dave Stark
3431
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:45:00 -
[317] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Dave Stark wrote:i didn't rant about it; i just pointed out that you were terrible at it. You made the claim in several consecutive posts, leading me to believe you were fixated. I apologize if there was a misunderstanding.
that's ok, it's evident there's a lot that you misunderstand. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:45:00 -
[318] - Quote
Tippia wrote:GǪthe players. The last time the cost of those materials was determined by CCP was back when trit was capped by NPC-made shuttles.
This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP.
If you like: are material requirements a factor in balance?
One might call materials consumed in the process a cost or even a price of manufacture. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1249
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:46:00 -
[319] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:S Byerley wrote:
It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.
Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market. So the amounts on the bill of materials was determined by whom if not CCP? Are you illiterate?
Correct. Hence, most of this thread. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12837
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:48:00 -
[320] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: Lol what specifically doesn't relate to the topic at hand? Or are you hoping to obfuscate?
You tell me, you're the expert at it.
I'm not saying that ship balance is unrelated to the topic at hand, you're denying that you were talking about it, despite all the evidence to the contrary.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
367
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:48:00 -
[321] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:S Byerley wrote:
It's not though? By far the most significant factor in trade hub price is the raw material cost determined by CCP.
Build cost is not determined by CCP. The bill of materials is, but the cost of those materials is determined by the player market. So the amounts on the bill of materials was determined by whom if not CCP? Are you illiterate? Sometimes. Depends if its a weekend or not. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1249
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:49:00 -
[322] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Tippia wrote:GǪthe players. The last time the cost of those materials was determined by CCP was back when trit was capped by NPC-made shuttles. This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP. If you like: is material cost a factor in balance? One might call materials consumed in the process a cost or even a price of manufacture.
One does call them that.
The prices of those materials, and hence the cost to build things, are determined by the player market, and not by CCP. CCP's in-game blueprint may tell you that Item X requires 100 Tritanium to manufacture. What it does not tell you is that YOU MUST PAY XXXX isk for that Tritanium. Stop confusing material requirements with material costs. The words do not mean the same thing. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16266
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:50:00 -
[323] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP. The materials required for different ships depend to a great extent on which race they belong to, and what ores and minerals are associated with their home regions.
Quote:If you like: is material cost a factor in balance? No. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
367
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:50:00 -
[324] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Lol what specifically doesn't relate to the topic at hand? Or are you hoping to obfuscate?
You tell me, you're the expert at it. Obfuscating then. Need to do better than find a bunch of posts validating my position. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12837
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:54:00 -
[325] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote: Lol what specifically doesn't relate to the topic at hand? Or are you hoping to obfuscate?
You tell me, you're the expert at it. Obfuscating then. Need to do better than find a bunch of posts validating my position. Actually I found a bunch of posts where you were talking about ship balancing, something you later denied.
Have you considered a career in politics? Lying through your teeth is a valid skillset there.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:57:00 -
[326] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:If you like: is material cost a factor in balance? No.
Perhaps material requirements then?
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Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
367
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Posted - 2013.08.31 15:57:00 -
[327] - Quote
Tippia wrote:S Byerley wrote:This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP. The materials required for different ships depend to a great extent on which race they belong to, and what ores and minerals are associated with their home regions. Quote:If you like: is material cost a factor in balance? No. In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking.
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. |
Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1626
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 15:59:00 -
[328] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos. Oh god. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1249
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:00:00 -
[329] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote: In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking.
Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.
Ridiculous hypotheticals are an excellent tactic for argument.
Did you know that if freighters cost 100 billion each because material costs to build them were increased, hardly anyone would bother owning them, and we wouldn't have so many inept freighter pilots creating these whine threads? Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16266
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:01:00 -
[330] - Quote
On a different note, wtf people?!
All week, Falcons have been selling like crazy and Zealots have been slow as molasses, and suddenly it's the other way around? Buy more Falcons dammit!
It may have nothing to do with the topic, but since this seems to be the current angry thread, I thought I'd vent some of mine as well.
S Byerley wrote:Perhaps material requirements then? No. And before you try again, let's make this clear once again: no matter what label you try to use, the answer will still be no, because you're still assuming the wrong direction of the relationship. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
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