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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12865
   |
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:31:00 -
[421] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:They were asking for a specific corporation because the usual suspects killboards and figures didn't match up to your claim. Tippia may have been the first to openly dispute it, but he certainly wasn't the first to call you out on it. Perhaps they should have clarified the context of their question.
How unclear is "name the corp that ganks a freighter every 20 minutes"?
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16269
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:31:00 -
[422] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Justify it to who? Fools and their money are soon parted; operate a freighter like a fool, and you're going to lose it, and whatever is inside of it. Someone is going to benefit from that. It requires no justification. GǪand at the end of the day, and no matter where the number crunching ends up, that's really the whole point:
If you offer up bajillions worth of rewards and someone comes along to collect it, you aren't really in a position to complain that they are raking in bajillions worth of rewards.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Matari Akiga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:32:00 -
[423] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:S Byerley wrote:
ITT Freighter gankers try to justify their ... paychecks.
Justify it to who? Fools and their money are soon parted; operate a freighter like a fool, and you're going to lose it, and whatever is inside of it. Someone is going to benefit from that. It requires no justification. edit: Brevity. Also, how much they may or may not make is irrelevant to freighter balance, but is a function of how much crap was inside the freighter.
This, so much this +1 to you sir.
As a freighter pilot this is something you should take into consideration every time you undock.
Trust me fly with this in mind you massively lower the risk you are at.
CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.
Improvise, adapt and overcome! |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
1259
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:33:00 -
[424] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Who is Mr. Man? and why is he the person I should take things up with?
Mr. Man. Mr. Straw Man. There's a picture of him here, somewhere. Byerley would rather you argue with Mr. Man.
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
Gunmen of the Apocalypse
185
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:33:00 -
[425] - Quote
It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.
If someone craps in your sandbox:
1. Light it on fire
2. Grab your shovel
3. Throw it back at them. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3571
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:36:00 -
[426] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:They were asking for a specific corporation because the usual suspects killboards and figures didn't match up to your claim. Tippia may have been the first to openly dispute it, but he certainly wasn't the first to call you out on it. Perhaps they should have clarified the context of their question.
If this wasn't clear enough for you, then....
S Byerley wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:
Because the downside of ganking in high sec is supposed to be the cost? Can you name another ship that has alt corporations dedicated to ganking one indiscriminately every ~20 minutes?
Can you name an alt corporation that actually does this, because I don't know of any.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
1262
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:36:00 -
[427] - Quote
Qolde wrote:It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.
Unfortunately for freighter pilots, all of the stuff they get filled with is priced according to the player market.
Fortunately for freighter pilots, there is absolutely no requirement that their ship be full before they undock.
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:36:00 -
[428] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Except we don't actually make that much isk from ganking freighters. You seem to be ignoring this fact.
baltec claimed that 15+ people made 60b in one day... then claimed that figure matched up with your 2m/hour/person.
You'll have to fogive me if that gets a little confusing. |
Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1628
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:37:00 -
[429] - Quote
Qolde wrote:It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships. It's not defenceless though. It can be defended for a comparatively small cost.
Oh god. |
baltec1
Bat Country
7755
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:37:00 -
[430] - Quote
Qolde wrote:It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.
Its meant for bulk hauling low value items. Stuffing it full high value items is where people go wrong. |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
172
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:37:00 -
[431] - Quote
Qolde wrote:It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships.
A freighter full of trit is around 500M. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12867
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:37:00 -
[432] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Who is Mr. Man? and why is he the person I should take things up with? Mr. Man. Mr. Straw Man. There's a picture of him here, somewhere. Byerley would rather you argue with Mr. Man. Oh I see, :homer: Arguing with an inanimate object would probably be more productive to be honest.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
1262
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:38:00 -
[433] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:S Byerley wrote:
ITT Freighter gankers try to justify their ... paychecks.
Justify it to who? Fools and their money are soon parted; operate a freighter like a fool, and you're going to lose it, and whatever is inside of it. Someone is going to benefit from that. It requires no justification. edit: Brevity. Also, how much they may or may not make is irrelevant to freighter balance, but is a function of how much crap was inside the freighter. If you'd like to come full circle, I'd having trouble filling a Freighter up with anything while not making it profitable to gank.
There's a joke:
A man goes to a doctor, and tells him, "Doctor, when I move my arm this way, it hurts."
The doctor replies, "Then don't move your arm that way."
In your case, the joke is that you hold the belief that your freighter needs to be full in order to leave station. If it gets ganked being full, don't fill it.
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3571
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:40:00 -
[434] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:S Byerley wrote:
ITT Freighter gankers try to justify their ... paychecks.
Justify it to who? Fools and their money are soon parted; operate a freighter like a fool, and you're going to lose it, and whatever is inside of it. Someone is going to benefit from that. It requires no justification. edit: Brevity. Also, how much they may or may not make is irrelevant to freighter balance, but is a function of how much crap was inside the freighter. If you'd like to come full circle, I'd having trouble filling a Freighter up with anything while not making it profitable to gank.
One thing I've always supported is that suicide ganking should not be profitable at a base level. That means that a few cheap ships should not be able to suicide gank an unfit ship that is carrying no loot & still profit from it (this was the premise of the barge buff, although Fozzie has admitted that they took it too far). Even when using T1 Catalysts ganking an empty freighter is not profitable. The freighter pilot chooses to make himself a profitable gank.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
3571
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:41:00 -
[435] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Except we don't actually make that much isk from ganking freighters. You seem to be ignoring this fact. baltec claimed that 15+ people made 60b in one day... then claimed that figure matched up with your 2m/hour/person. You'll have to fogive me if that gets a little confusing.
Suicide ganking isn't a taxable activity. I see where you're going wrong here, you don't understand game mechanics.
The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16269
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:42:00 -
[436] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:baltec claimed that 15+ people made 60b in one day... then claimed that figure matched up with your 2m/hour/person. No. He claimed that one guy with an undisclosed number of alts made 60bn in a day, and that after the loot from a gank has been split 15 ways, it'll be less per hour than what each of those characters made.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Matari Akiga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:42:00 -
[437] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:
If you'd like to come full circle, I'd having trouble filling a Freighter up with anything while not making it profitable to gank.
So don't fill it, my freighter has been filled above 70% of its maximum cargo maybe 3 or 4 times ever, but it is still invaluable daily.
Just because it has the cargo space does not make it a requirement or a good idea to fill it to capacity.
CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.
Improvise, adapt and overcome! |
S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:44:00 -
[438] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:In your case, the joke is that you hold the belief that your freighter needs to be full in order to leave station. If it gets ganked being full, don't fill it.
But a ship with a massive cargo hold that you can't use is badly designed? and CCP is looking to rework badly designed ships? I even cited reducing the cargo hold as a valid approach.
In any case, I'm off for now. Feel free to prattle on about how you deserve 167m/hr for high sec catalyst ganking and how everyone who disagrees is ignorant or a butt hurt Freighter pilot. |
Qolde
Scrambled Eggs Inc.
Gunmen of the Apocalypse
185
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:48:00 -
[439] - Quote
Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Qolde wrote:It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships. A freighter full of trit is around 500M.
as was stated earlier in the thread who would be inefficient enough to haul a freighter full of trit due to mineral compression? its very evident that the ship balance has been far behind the Meta since abc's and then again when tiericide began. a full freighter is a dead freighter. not saying they should be ungankable with a full stack of estamels, but somethings gotta give
If someone craps in your sandbox:
1. Light it on fire
2. Grab your shovel
3. Throw it back at them. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16271
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:48:00 -
[440] - Quote
Matari Akiga wrote:So don't fill it, my freighter has been filled above 70% of its maximum cargo maybe 3 or 4 times ever, but it is still invaluable daily.
Just because it has the cargo space does not make it a requirement or a good idea to fill it to capacity.
^^^ For example, the Falcons and Zealots I was complaining about earlier required ~300k m-¦ to transport, and the inventory window claimed they were worth about 4bn ISK in total. So we decided to split it in two runs, because the current route to Jita goes straight through an interdicted system, and thus still required Freighter-sized cargo space to get the junk to market.
S Byerley wrote:But a ship with a massive cargo hold that you can't use is badly designed? You can use it just fine, so it's not particularly bad design. People stuffing them full of valuables is a bad decision though, but that's no different from blinging your cruiser-class mission ship up with billions worth of mods. Just because you put Estamels on your Tengu doesn't mean it is poorly designed for having so many midslots.
Quote:Feel free to prattle on about how you deserve 167m/hr The only one who has claimed this is you.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12867
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:48:00 -
[441] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:In your case, the joke is that you hold the belief that your freighter needs to be full in order to leave station. If it gets ganked being full, don't fill it. But a ship with a massive cargo hold that you can't use is badly designed? and CCP is looking to rework badly designed ships? I even cited reducing the cargo hold as a valid approach. In any case, I'm off for now. Feel free to prattle on about how you deserve 167m/hr for high sec catalyst ganking and how everyone who disagrees is ignorant or a butt hurt Freighter pilot.
Why should CCP be forced to change a ship because of player stupidity or greed? We've already experienced that with the barge and exhumer buff, a lot of the players that use them are still stupid enough to not fit a tank, mine afk and fit cargo expanders when the Ore bay isn't affected by them.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
1264
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:49:00 -
[442] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:In your case, the joke is that you hold the belief that your freighter needs to be full in order to leave station. If it gets ganked being full, don't fill it. But a ship with a massive cargo hold that you can't use is badly designed? and CCP is looking to rework badly designed ships? I even cited reducing the cargo hold as a valid approach. In any case, I'm off for now. Feel free to prattle on about how you deserve 167m/hr for high sec catalyst ganking and how everyone who disagrees is ignorant or a butt hurt Freighter pilot.
You can use it; no one says that you can't. But the solution to the problem of getting ganked for carrying too much stuff is to not carry so much stuff.
I'll address your final points out of order: The fact that you are butthurt and ignorant isn't something that needs be prattled on about. You've proven it repeatedly in this thread. Secondly, no ganker deserves 167m/hr for ganking freighters. Rather, the ingorant freighter pilot who turns his ship into a loot buffet, and makes no plans for contingencies, doesn't deserve to keep his cargo.
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Solstice Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
3819
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:52:00 -
[443] - Quote
Conclusion:
Obviously, if i walk through the bronx in an expensive armani suite,
with a golden rolex on my wrist for everybody to see ...
... then it's totally not my fault when i get killed for that.
I know, real life analogies are bad ... but this one fits almost every time. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12867
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:52:00 -
[444] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:snip Rather, the ingorant freighter pilot who turns his ship into a loot buffet, and makes no plans for contingencies, doesn't deserve to keep his cargo. Unlike Matari Akiga, who strikes me as a freighter pilot who plans ahead, takes steps to mitigate risks and is generally the sort of player who will go far.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
baltec1
Bat Country
7755
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:54:00 -
[445] - Quote
Tippia wrote:S Byerley wrote:baltec claimed that 15+ people made 60b in one day... then claimed that figure matched up with your 2m/hour/person. No. He claimed that one guy with an undisclosed number of alts made 60bn in a day, and that after the loot from a gank has been split 15 ways, it'll be less per hour than what each of those characters made.
Best part is that I never it.
|
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
Point Blank Alliance
1265
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 18:56:00 -
[446] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:snip Rather, the ingorant freighter pilot who turns his ship into a loot buffet, and makes no plans for contingencies, doesn't deserve to keep his cargo. Unlike Matari Akiga, who strikes me as the sort of freighter pilot who plans ahead, takes steps to mitigate risks and is generally the sort of player who will go far.
If they all operated that way, you would never see these silly threads, and Bat Country would have to find something else to do for the additional hour or so they would gain everyday from not ganking a freighter every 20 minutes.
Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |
Matari Akiga
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:00:00 -
[447] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:In your case, the joke is that you hold the belief that your freighter needs to be full in order to leave station. If it gets ganked being full, don't fill it. But a ship with a massive cargo hold that you can't use is badly designed? and CCP is looking to rework badly designed ships? I even cited reducing the cargo hold as a valid approach. In any case, I'm off for now. Feel free to prattle on about how you deserve 167m/hr for high sec catalyst ganking and how everyone who disagrees is ignorant or a butt hurt Freighter pilot.
I guess I am the butt hurt freighter pilot who has been offering advice to avoid getting ganked that has served me well for years, I wont complain my hauling is done not for my profit but for the benefit of my alliance mates and my PVP alt paid for the freighter (singular because I have never lost it).
Player actions change if you create an opportunity for someone to make isk at your expense they will, evolve with the times or lose your ship your choice.
P.S. quoted by Tippia I feel very important today.
CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.
Improvise, adapt and overcome! |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16271
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:01:00 -
[448] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Best part is that I never said those words. I gave numbers on what someone with a personal fleet made shooting NPCs Yes, wellGǪ I presumed that you meant L4s since that was the point of comparison in the earlier.
Either way, neither the source nor the number of people involved in making that ISK was what S Byerley suggested. vOv
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |
Elizabeth Aideron
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
172
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:07:00 -
[449] - Quote
Qolde wrote:Elizabeth Aideron wrote:Qolde wrote:It is sort of silly to have a hauler so big and defenseless that ANYTHING you can fill it with is a bad idea. that's as broken as a 600M isk battleship that can't kill any other battleships. A freighter full of trit is around 500M. as was stated earlier in the thread who would be inefficient enough to haul a freighter full of trit due to mineral compression? its very evident that the ship balance has been far behind the Meta since abc's and then again when tiericide began. a full freighter is a dead freighter. not saying they should be ungankable with a full stack of estamels, but somethings gotta give
Sure, if you've got the compression set up. There's also things like ores and ice if you need to move to a refinery system, as well as fitted ships, ihubs, and their upgrades. Those are just off the top of my head. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12868
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 19:10:00 -
[450] - Quote
I have a question..
How soon after Odyssey 1.1 hits will we see more threads like this because someone filled the specialist bay of the ships formerly known as Iterons to the brim, thus making them pinatas, with PI products/minerals/ore/ice/gas?
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
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