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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3558
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:01:00 -
[331] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Tippia wrote:S Byerley wrote:This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP. The materials required for different ships depend to a great extent on which race they belong to, and what ores and minerals are associated with their home regions. Quote:If you like: is material cost a factor in balance? No. In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking. Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease.
Freighter ganking isn't as frequent as you seem to think it is, so your cost balancing argument is entirely irrelevant. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |

Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
367
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:03:00 -
[332] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos. Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12838
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:04:00 -
[333] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Tippia wrote:S Byerley wrote:This might be a valid differentiating factor if T1 ships weren't all built out of, more or less, the same material; and if availability and yield weren't also determined by CCP. The materials required for different ships depend to a great extent on which race they belong to, and what ores and minerals are associated with their home regions. Quote:If you like: is material cost a factor in balance? No. In the context of this thread, regards to freighter ganking, yes it is. It directly relates to ganking ability, frequency and profitability. If catalysts cost 100 million each because material costs to build them was increased there would not be catalysts ganking. Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Freighter ganking isn't as frequent as you seem to think it is, so your cost balancing argument is entirely irrelevant. Exhumer ganking isn't either, people still bleat like sheep about it despite CCP stating that it's at all time low.
One freighter a month would be too much for some people.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

Phil Defer
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:04:00 -
[334] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Lugalbandak wrote:Wy would de base cargohold heavily nerfed? because fitting a single cargo expander would allow freighters to move packaged capitals in to high sec, which is an issue easily avoided by not letting freighters fit cargo modules. Who cares if you move them into highsec. As long as you can't assemble them which is easily fixed. you mean aside from the fact that your ill thought idea has knock on consequences that will require time and effort to fix when instead CCP can carry on ignoring the dumb people who fill their freighter with all their worldly goods and hit undock. yeah i know, let's make a load of issues just to protect dumb people. hint; ccp have never protected dumb people, that's why scamming is a perfectly legitimate profession in eve.
"ccp have never protected dumb people"
Yeah , that's why ccp make pop a window when someone try to buy a item + 100% of the average price , i believe
|

Ammzi
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1415
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:04:00 -
[335] - Quote
Lucy Hastmena wrote:Even this freighter http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=19440276was killed by them because it dosnt cost them anything really worthfull (sec status is for an 00 alliance not a problem and of course you can buy it easy after the last patch if you need it)
To be fair, the providence was a test run to get people some experience :D
quote CCP Spitfire
"Hello Im Blue,"
|

Dave Stark
3432
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:06:00 -
[336] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos. Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo. thank you for finally admitting freighter EHP is fine. |

Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1626
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:07:00 -
[337] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo. How much of a buff does it need? Oh god. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12841
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:07:00 -
[338] - Quote
Phil Defer wrote:Dave Stark wrote: hint; ccp have never protected dumb people, that's why scamming is a perfectly legitimate profession in eve.
"ccp have never protected dumb people" Yeah , that's why ccp make pop a window when someone try to buy a item + 100% of the average price , i believe Yet despite the pop up window, being dumb wins.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3558
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:08:00 -
[339] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos. Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.
You realise that we ganked freighters using Talos' for an entire year right? The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |

Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3558
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:09:00 -
[340] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos. Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.
Ganking an empty freighter is not profitable. The guy who was sitting next to me in the first nullsec round table who had obviously not had a shower since before boarding his flight to Iceland, you really stank. You know who you are. |

Dave Stark
3432
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:09:00 -
[341] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos. Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo. You realise that we ganked freighters using Talos' for an entire year right? yeah but we all know that catalysts are only the ship of choice because miniluv is broke and poor. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12841
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:10:00 -
[342] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos. Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo. Ganking an empty freighter is not profitable. It is fun though, explosions are pretty.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1250
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:11:00 -
[343] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Riot Girl wrote:Infinity Ziona wrote:Since the next best thing, cruisers cost 5 x more (due to material costs) ganking freighters overall would be more expensive and overall ganks on freighters would likely decrease. Only temporarily until people train up to fly a Brutix or Talos. Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo.
Confirming once again that the only reason people gank freighters is for profit. Repeat, nothing in EVE is ever done just for laughs. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16267
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:11:00 -
[344] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Which is why freighters need a HP buff or tank fitting ability. To drive up the cost of ganking to a point it was originally at, profitable to gank a pi+¦ata but not an empty freighter or just carrying a typical cargo. GǪso in other words, no buff in HP GÇö and no nerf in the form of fitting ability GÇö is really needed.
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:18:00 -
[345] - Quote
Tippia wrote:No. And before you try again,
You'll have to forgive me for making sure we're on the same page; you have a fondness for autistic semantics and several others on your end of the discussion seem to disagree.
Quote:let's make this clear once again: no matter what label you try to use, the answer will still be no, because you're still assuming the wrong direction of the relationship.
The other direction would be a balancing factor is a material requirement. That doesn't make sense to me. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:20:00 -
[346] - Quote
Domanique Altares wrote:Confirming once again that the only reason people gank freighters is for profit. Repeat, nothing in EVE is ever done just for laughs.
If you're doing it for ***** and giggles you shouldn't have an issue with CCP making it less profitable? |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16268
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:22:00 -
[347] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:You'll have to forgive me for making sure we're on the same page Have you tried reading what I write rather than just skipping over it and inventing your own claims that you then try to attribute to me?
Quote:The other direction would be a balancing factor is a material requirement. The other direction would be that cost is a product of balance; that balance is a factor in cost. You know, the things you've been trying to reverse every time I've mentioned it?
GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Dave Stark
3433
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:23:00 -
[348] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Domanique Altares wrote:Confirming once again that the only reason people gank freighters is for profit. Repeat, nothing in EVE is ever done just for laughs. If you're doing it for ***** and giggles you shouldn't have an issue with CCP making it less profitable?
Players can make it less profitable. CCP doesn't need to get involved. |

Riot Girl
Krypteia Operations
1626
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:24:00 -
[349] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:The other direction would be a balancing factor is a material requirement. That doesn't make sense to me. No, the material requirement is a result of balance, not the other way. Also you might want to edit out your offensive remark.
Oh god. |

Womyn Power
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
58
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:24:00 -
[350] - Quote
i hope this **** becomes a weekly thing for love squad
highsec is such a huge untapped tear reservoir of tears |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:27:00 -
[351] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:The other direction would be a balancing factor is a material requirement. The other direction would be that balance is a factor in cost; that cost is a product of balance. You know, the things you've been trying to reverse every time I've mentioned it?
Material requirements are set by CCP; how can they be a product of balance? Unless you're trying to say that CCP balances ships and then sets material requirements based on that balance - in which case the distinction is purely philosophical and obviously not appropriate to make here. |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:33:00 -
[352] - Quote
Riot Girl wrote:Also you might want to edit out your offensive remark.
I can only assume you take issue with me calling a type of semantics autistic? I can't see why; it's merely the easiest way to refer to an asocial fixation on strict definitions that don't match formal or common usage - obviously related to the common traits of the neural disorder. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12842
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:37:00 -
[353] - Quote
Womyn Power wrote:i hope this **** becomes a weekly thing for love squad
highsec is such a huge untapped tear reservoir of tears Freighter pilots have nothing on miners, the amount of tears, threats and vitriol they produce will keep you going for years.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1250
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:41:00 -
[354] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Womyn Power wrote:i hope this **** becomes a weekly thing for love squad
highsec is such a huge untapped tear reservoir of tears Freighter pilots have nothing on miners, the amount of tears, threats and vitriol they produce will keep you going for years.
Must be due to the staggering amount of freighters that get ganked. Freighter pilots simply don't have any tears left. I know if I were part of a profession where my chosen ship type got ganked every 20 minutes on average, I would be completely beaten down beyond the point of complaint, too. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12843
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:46:00 -
[355] - Quote
You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts.
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |

S Byerley
The Manhattan Engineer District
141
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:49:00 -
[356] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts.
Oh look
|

Matari Akiga
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:50:00 -
[357] - Quote
Infinity Ziona wrote:Yeah they need to be able to fit a tank. Give them fitting abilty. Its pretty stupid an orca can be fit to have 3 times the HP of a freighter.
You'll get a lot of idiots coming into this thread saying theres no problem but they make a living off ganking freighters so theyre biased. You'll also get people who are fanboys of the latter but neither will have a reasonable or sustainable argument so likely you'll get flamed.
I don't gank nor use freighters and its clear to me that when freighters were introduced without fitting it took a sizeable battleship force to kill one. Things have changed a lot and freighters need a rethink.
I fly freighters and use them as part of a sov holding null sec alliances logistic's backbone I do have a PVP toon but I have no interest in hi sec ganks, I use my freighter mainly in hi sec and JF for most of the null work that said I have used the freighter in null and vise versa with the JF, so that is my back ground in this argument.
In the 3 ish years I have used a freighter I have never been the victim of a gank because of taking efforts to reduce the risk which with out going into the details again, see my earlier posts, include managing cargo volume, having a support fleet fly with you and never ever ever flying afk.
I have been scanned but never more because of flying smart. CCP dont need to change everything to suit your play style.
Improvise, adapt and overcome! |

Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
16268
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:52:00 -
[358] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Material requirements are set by CCP; how can they be a product of balance? First CCP determines the balance of a ship. Then they look at it and say GǣhmmGǪ how common do we want this thing to beGǥ. Then they set a price to achieve that goal. To what degree it reflects actual performance depends on the purpose of the ship.
Quote:Unless you're trying to say that CCP balances ships and then sets material requirements based on that balance - in which case the distinction is purely philosophical and obviously not appropriate to make here. No, it's actually a crucial difference and a core part of game design. The direction you're proposing means that an imbalance can be rectified by giving the ship the right cost. This doesn't work, as has been proven byGǪ ohGǪ every attempt at doing so ever. The direction I'm describing means that depending on where the ship sits in the overall scale of things (where balance is but one of many considerations), you assign it a cost that provides an indication of that position. It does not alter the position in any way.
You're trying to say that it's prescriptive; I'm saying that it's (only partially) descriptive. GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: newbie skill plan 2.0. |

Domanique Altares
Rifterlings Point Blank Alliance
1251
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:55:00 -
[359] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts.
But Jonah, it's not sarcasm. It's simply common knowledge that freighters get ganked every 20 minutes in highsec. That's why everything costs so much, because most goods never actually get where they are going. Goonswarm takes all the sacrificial freighter loot and boils it up in a big pot of miner tears, and uses the resultant potion as a mind-altering pablum that they feed to their renter corps in order to make them more passive and agreeable to 3am CTAs in the name of the cause.
It's the circle of life. Rifterlings pirate corporation is now recruiting pilots for lowsec solo & small gang operations. Visit our website at www.rifterlings.com or join our in game channel weflyrifters to speak to a recruiter. |

Jonah Gravenstein
Sweet Sensations Radical Industries
12846
|
Posted - 2013.08.31 16:55:00 -
[360] - Quote
S Byerley wrote:Jonah Gravenstein wrote:You might want to add sarcasm tags Domanique, S Byerley will take your post as proof that freighters die every 20 minutes, regardless of the facts. Oh look Your list of things to learn from this thread now consists of
- the meaning of the word "average"
- what a strawman argument is
Bullshit is a greater enemy of the truth than lies are ~ Harry G. Frankfurt |
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