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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
23
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:05:00 -
[541] - Quote
I am putting a suggestion out for comment. Please do not shoot me down on it, try to keep it constructive. Lots of thoughts on the ship being overpowered in certain conditions.
If the stratios had one light turret for getting aggression and no other turret slot and totally dependent on drones, would it solve the over powered issue or do you feel it would cripple an otherwise good ship?
If you think it is now underpowered what would you add back?
Please comment.....
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Ashente
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:05:00 -
[542] - Quote
These ships will be amazing. Will we be getting them from the SOE LP store? |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1620
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:06:00 -
[543] - Quote
TheFace Asano wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:I think the actual intent is a solo pve ship that can have great combat capabilities for pvp if set up for it. If they pull any dps from the cruiser, it will not run sites as designed to. A re-adjustment to push people into lasers would be appropriate. I really like the idea of a 100% damage bonus to 2 laser turrets, and pull a high slot in exchange maybe. Pretty sure 4 unbonused lasers aren't the reason this thing can supposedly pull off 6/10s. I don't think it is either, it is the 5x bonused sentry drones of multiple types and ranges you can deploy + the armor resists. This is probably a good reason to give the faction a battleship with 125mb bandwidth and the cruiser with 100mb. And what makes you think that a Cloaky BS will be any more accepted than this? Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1620
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:07:00 -
[544] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:I am putting a suggestion out for comment. Please do not shoot me down on it, try to keep it constructive. Lots of thoughts on the ship being overpowered in certain conditions. If the stratios had one light turret for getting aggression and no other turret slot and totally dependent on drones, would it solve the over powered issue or do you feel it would cripple an otherwise good ship? If you think it is now underpowered what would you add back? Please comment..... It honestly can do with just 2 unbonused turrets and perform just fine. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
23
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:08:00 -
[545] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:TheFace Asano wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:I think the actual intent is a solo pve ship that can have great combat capabilities for pvp if set up for it. If they pull any dps from the cruiser, it will not run sites as designed to. A re-adjustment to push people into lasers would be appropriate. I really like the idea of a 100% damage bonus to 2 laser turrets, and pull a high slot in exchange maybe. Pretty sure 4 unbonused lasers aren't the reason this thing can supposedly pull off 6/10s. I don't think it is either, it is the 5x bonused sentry drones of multiple types and ranges you can deploy + the armor resists. This is probably a good reason to give the faction a battleship with 125mb bandwidth and the cruiser with 100mb. And what makes you think that a Cloaky BS will be any more accepted than this?
OMG covert cloaked battleship. Now you really are NOT talking exploration unless the exploration is of other peoples wreckage.
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Dehval
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
19
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:10:00 -
[546] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:I am putting a suggestion out for comment. Please do not shoot me down on it, try to keep it constructive. Lots of thoughts on the ship being overpowered in certain conditions. If the stratios had one light turret for getting aggression and no other turret slot and totally dependent on drones, would it solve the over powered issue or do you feel it would cripple an otherwise good ship? If you think it is now underpowered what would you add back? Please comment..... They could remove the damage bonus on the drones and just give a speed/tracking/hp bonus. 5 heavies/sentries on their own do quite a chunk of damage even before the 10% per level. Give the Amarr a second bonus, 5% damage to lasers, and you have a slightly more balanced ship that is still capable of doing 6/10s with little trouble.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1620
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:12:00 -
[547] - Quote
Dehval wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:I am putting a suggestion out for comment. Please do not shoot me down on it, try to keep it constructive. Lots of thoughts on the ship being overpowered in certain conditions. If the stratios had one light turret for getting aggression and no other turret slot and totally dependent on drones, would it solve the over powered issue or do you feel it would cripple an otherwise good ship? If you think it is now underpowered what would you add back? Please comment..... They could remove the damage bonus on the drones and just give a speed/tracking/hp bonus. 5 heavies/sentries on their own do quite a chunk of damage even before the 10% per level. Give the Amarr a second bonus, 5% damage to lasers, and you have a slightly more balanced ship that is still capable of doing 6/10s with little trouble. Seeing as the Guristas lineup is most likely having its drone focus removed, these are the new drone ships. And it seems they are supposed to be as much a laser ships as the Guristas ships are missile ships. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
23
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:13:00 -
[548] - Quote
Good suggestions keep them coming so CCP can see what we want |
Jenn aSide
STK Scientific Initiative Mercenaries
2965
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:14:00 -
[549] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote: Seeing as the Guristas lineup is most likely having its drone focus removed, these are the new drone ships.
Did ccp say something like this somewhere? Link if you got one, I'd be all for the Rattlesnake being a real missile ship. |
Trii Seo
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
175
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:14:00 -
[550] - Quote
Dehval wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:I am putting a suggestion out for comment. Please do not shoot me down on it, try to keep it constructive. Lots of thoughts on the ship being overpowered in certain conditions. If the stratios had one light turret for getting aggression and no other turret slot and totally dependent on drones, would it solve the over powered issue or do you feel it would cripple an otherwise good ship? If you think it is now underpowered what would you add back? Please comment..... They could remove the damage bonus on the drones and just give a speed/tracking/hp bonus. 5 heavies/sentries on their own do quite a chunk of damage even before the 10% per level. Give the Amarr a second bonus, 5% damage to lasers, and you have a slightly more balanced ship that is still capable of doing 6/10s with little trouble.
+1
Been thinking about suggesting losing the drone bonus for a laser one but seems everyone's in love with the bloody things lately.
There already is a dedicated covert drone cruiser too - the Pilgrim. For all that's worth It's easier to balance it basing on weapon bonuses too, damage-wise.
As for exploring and people's wrecks... we're all looking for something - some are looking for a trinket in a can, others for the one who found it. In hopes of hearing him scream before he dies and claiming the spoils of his hard work, all in a brief display of violence in a tribute to forsaken gods of war. Is it Hotdrop O'Clock yet?
Covert pilots unite! Safer working conditions, less accidental limb loss due to unfortunate Cyno accidents! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=258986 |
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epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
23
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:16:00 -
[551] - Quote
Trii Seo wrote:Dehval wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:I am putting a suggestion out for comment. Please do not shoot me down on it, try to keep it constructive. Lots of thoughts on the ship being overpowered in certain conditions. If the stratios had one light turret for getting aggression and no other turret slot and totally dependent on drones, would it solve the over powered issue or do you feel it would cripple an otherwise good ship? If you think it is now underpowered what would you add back? Please comment..... They could remove the damage bonus on the drones and just give a speed/tracking/hp bonus. 5 heavies/sentries on their own do quite a chunk of damage even before the 10% per level. Give the Amarr a second bonus, 5% damage to lasers, and you have a slightly more balanced ship that is still capable of doing 6/10s with little trouble. +1 Been thinking about suggesting losing the drone bonus for a laser one but seems everyone's in love with the bloody things lately. There already is a dedicated covert drone cruiser too - the Pilgrim. For all that's worth It's easier to balance it basing on weapon bonuses too, damage-wise. As for exploring and people's wrecks... we're all looking for something - some are looking for a trinket in a can, others for the one who found it. In hopes of hearing him scream before he dies and claiming the spoils of his hard work, all in a brief display of violence in a tribute to forsaken gods of war.
Got to laugh
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1065
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:17:00 -
[552] - Quote
TheFace Asano wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Quote:I think the actual intent is a solo pve ship that can have great combat capabilities for pvp if set up for it. If they pull any dps from the cruiser, it will not run sites as designed to. A re-adjustment to push people into lasers would be appropriate. I really like the idea of a 100% damage bonus to 2 laser turrets, and pull a high slot in exchange maybe. Pretty sure 4 unbonused lasers aren't the reason this thing can supposedly pull off 6/10s. I don't think it is either, it is the 5x bonused sentry drones of multiple types and ranges you can deploy + the armor resists. This is probably a good reason to give the faction a battleship with 125mb bandwidth and the cruiser with 100mb.
Negative. The entire selling point of this thing is it's supposed ability to perform long range, deep space self reliant exploration.
Even if you took away 25mb of bandwidth, giving it that theoretical dps back in the form of turrets would be worthless to everyone but the people who just want it to gank.
Range matters to the people who want to use it for PvE. But for us gankers, all I care about is how much output I can throw at you from about 2500m away.
And will people quit talking about the purely theoretical battleship? For Christ's sake, let's balance the ship we actually have in front of us before the expac hits. There's probably a different thread for wishlisting, while this thread is about the ship balance of the frigate and the cruiser.
[Edit: Oh, and can we get some damned launcher hardpoints on this thing? I know that can't possibly be too much to ask. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1620
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:19:00 -
[553] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote: Seeing as the Guristas lineup is most likely having its drone focus removed, these are the new drone ships.
Did ccp say something like this somewhere? Link if you got one, I'd be all for the Rattlesnake being a real missile ship.
CCP Rise wrote:Naomi Anthar wrote:Grarr Dexx wrote:More bandwidth on a cruiser than on any battleship? Are the rest of the pirate factions going to be following this design trend? This is just better than the Gila in every way. You may be correct ... but pirate ships are before balance pass. So this Gila may be diffrent from new Gila. Confirming new Gila will be different and hopefully very cool.
Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
23
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:30:00 -
[554] - Quote
Ok, have I got this right, Balance suggestions for CCP 10% virus strength Bigger scanning bonus Drone bonus affects hit points signature and tracking.plus reduced damage bonus. 2 bonused laser turrets only? Bigger cargo hold.
This would feel a good compromise for everyone?
Please comment
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Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
1065
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:32:00 -
[555] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ok, have I got this right, Balance suggestions for CCP 10% virus strength Bigger scanning bonus Drone bonus affects hit points signature and tracking.plus reduced damage bonus. 2 bonused laser turrets only? Bigger cargo hold.
This would feel a good compromise for everyone?
Please comment
No to all but the cargo hold. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1620
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:36:00 -
[556] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ok, have I got this right, Balance suggestions for CCP 10% virus strength Bigger scanning bonus Drone bonus affects hit points signature and tracking.plus reduced damage bonus. 2 bonused laser turrets only? Bigger cargo hold.
This would feel a good compromise for everyone?
Please comment
The +5 virus strength is fine, especially if you use T2 analyzers. Even the scanning bonus is fine. I regularly scan down everything but 2.5% sigs with an unbonused ship, sisters core scanner probes,a T1 probe launcher, no impants, and no scanning mods. Without the drone damage bonus, you are looking at a base 316 DPS form Ogre IIs. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
23
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:43:00 -
[557] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ok, have I got this right, Balance suggestions for CCP 10% virus strength Bigger scanning bonus Drone bonus affects hit points signature and tracking.plus reduced damage bonus. 2 bonused laser turrets only? Bigger cargo hold.
This would feel a good compromise for everyone?
Please comment
The +5 virus strength is fine, especially if you use T2 analyzers. Even the scanning bonus is fine. I regularly scan down everything but 2.5% sigs with an unbonused ship, sisters core scanner probes,a T1 probe launcher, no impants, and no scanning mods. Without the drone damage bonus, you are looking at a base 316 DPS form Ogre IIs.
Is that in nullsec? Most seem to need that 10%virus strength in null I know I do. Reducing the drone damage mifgt be a bit much in my opinion, but seeking suggestions to limit any overpower issues.
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1621
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:47:00 -
[558] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ok, have I got this right, Balance suggestions for CCP 10% virus strength Bigger scanning bonus Drone bonus affects hit points signature and tracking.plus reduced damage bonus. 2 bonused laser turrets only? Bigger cargo hold.
This would feel a good compromise for everyone?
Please comment
The +5 virus strength is fine, especially if you use T2 analyzers. Even the scanning bonus is fine. I regularly scan down everything but 2.5% sigs with an unbonused ship, sisters core scanner probes,a T1 probe launcher, no impants, and no scanning mods. Without the drone damage bonus, you are looking at a base 316 DPS form Ogre IIs. Is that in nullsec? Most seem to need that 10%virus strength in null I know I do. Reducing the drone damage mifgt be a bit much in my opinion, but seeking suggestions to limit any overpower issues. I was successfully doing null sites with a t1 analyzer in my Proteus, which gives it a total strength of 30. With a T2 analyzer you would have a strength of 35 in this ship. So yes null sec sites are fine with a strength of 35. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
25
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Posted - 2013.10.03 15:58:00 -
[559] - Quote
Is that in nullsec? Most seem to need that 10%virus strength in null I know I do. Reducing the drone damage mifgt be a bit much in my opinion, but seeking suggestions to limit any overpower issues. [/quote] I was successfully doing null sites with a t1 analyzer in my Proteus, which gives it a total strength of 30. With a T2 analyzer you would have a strength of 35 in this ship. So yes null sec sites are fine with a strength of 35.[/quote]
Ah that explains it, in my helios I have 10% ship bonus and 20 for t1 that works. Doesn't work with imicus and t1 25% So unless Ccp only expect us to use t2 analysers with this ship it will need 10% like the helios.
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Rhavas
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
178
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:00:00 -
[560] - Quote
On a side note, I did some research, analysis and speculation into the names chosen for these two boats.
Here's the EVE Fiction forum thread
Here's my analysis: It May Not Make Sense At First Author of Interstellar Privateer Shattered Planets, Wormholes and Game Commentary |
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Bouh Revetoile
TIPIAKS
357
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:05:00 -
[561] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ah that explains it, in my helios I have 10% ship bonus and 20 for t1 that works. Doesn't work with imicus and t1 25% So unless Ccp only expect us to use t2 analysers with this ship it will need 10% like the helios.
You look like not willing to train skills for these T2 analyzers...
And what will be left to covops if the Astero is better than them for their job AND better at pew pew at the same time ? |
Kel hound
Lycosa Syndicate Surely You're Joking
53
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:05:00 -
[562] - Quote
To the people lamenting that the Astrero does not have room for turrets with a standard explorer fit, can I just point out that no other exploration frigate can field 3 sets of 5 light drones? This ship does not NEED any turrets and if it had them then it would be poorer for it. I was more tempted to ask for an extra mid, so I could fit mine with prop, tackle, cargo scanner and hacking mods - but that would be greedy. I am very happy with this ship as it is and plan to make it my frigate alts new ship of choice.
The Stratios is awesome too, I love the fitting choices your forcing with the lack of cloak bonus, plus I have a reason to fit the more expensive smoke screen cloak. Im blown away by the 5 large drone bay, I was not expecting that at all. Im going to have to train up T2 sentries and heavys now, this ship demands it.
Overall I am very excited for these ships, combined with the Depot I might just go full nomad and vanish into the depths of lowsec :D |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
508
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:09:00 -
[563] - Quote
These ships are amazing, CCP!
But they could do with a better laser bonus. Cap reduction? Really? ROF/Optimal/etc might be better.
Or, a 50% reduction in blaster cap usage / 7.5 or 5% (per level) bonus to optimal laser range.
EDIT: The drone bonus is nice! 125mb is great for a cruiser that doesn't have a turret DPS bonus! |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
508
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:14:00 -
[564] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Was considering optimal bonus instead of cap use. Maybe can continue to consider that. We didn't want to do damage bonus in the role bonus because then you would have like 900 dps covert cloaking cruiser which is way too much. Optimal might work though.
This is a good idea. It would make the ship more versatile for exploration sites, especially if we don't have all racial drones trained up!
Otherwise, everything on this ship seems perfect for the explorer! I can't wait to get my hands on one of these. Will be great for long exploration runs away from home. |
epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
25
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:15:00 -
[565] - Quote
Bouh Revetoile wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ah that explains it, in my helios I have 10% ship bonus and 20 for t1 that works. Doesn't work with imicus and t1 25% So unless Ccp only expect us to use t2 analysers with this ship it will need 10% like the helios.
You look like not willing to train skills for these T2 analyzers... And what will be left to covops if the Astero is better than them for their job AND better at pew pew at the same time ?
No you misunderstand, I am training those to 5 currently, and that will be there before launch, the question is what is CCP's expectation for these.If they demand lv skills for it then fine If not then they have missed the target. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1621
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:25:00 -
[566] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ah that explains it, in my helios I have 10% ship bonus and 20 for t1 that works. Doesn't work with imicus and t1 25% So unless Ccp only expect us to use t2 analysers with this ship it will need 10% like the helios.
You look like not willing to train skills for these T2 analyzers... And what will be left to covops if the Astero is better than them for their job AND better at pew pew at the same time ? No you misunderstand, I am training those to 5 currently, and that will be there before launch, the question is what is CCP's expectation for these.If they demand lv skills for it then fine If not then they have missed the target. Ships are balanced around t2 modules, not t1. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
epicurus ataraxia
Unchained Industrial Collective Defiance Enterprises
25
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:37:00 -
[567] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Bouh Revetoile wrote:epicurus ataraxia wrote:Ah that explains it, in my helios I have 10% ship bonus and 20 for t1 that works. Doesn't work with imicus and t1 25% So unless Ccp only expect us to use t2 analysers with this ship it will need 10% like the helios.
You look like not willing to train skills for these T2 analyzers... And what will be left to covops if the Astero is better than them for their job AND better at pew pew at the same time ? No you misunderstand, I am training those to 5 currently, and that will be there before launch, the question is what is CCP's expectation for these.If they demand lv skills for it then fine If not then they have missed the target. Ships are balanced around t2 modules, not t1.
It has not been made clear, but i believe these ships will not require the covert ops skill.this leads me to believe that they are trying to increase the accessability of these vessels. You will need to train up the cloaking skill and the prerequise skills to fit the cloak anyway. I do not believe, but i could be wrong, that the intention is to make a ship less powerful than the current covert ops ships, and there is nothing to stop them adding features to those to increase the desireability. Have they been through their review yet?
The point is that if the virus strength remains at 5% there is absolutely no reason to fly them apart from pew pew. A covert ops does the exploring side better. |
Kenpo
61st Angry Angels
14
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:38:00 -
[568] - Quote
Well done Rhavas, good read, I enjoyed the revelation of the layers of this onion called EvE. Caution, rubber gloves and faceshield required when handling this equipment. |
Piraal
Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
3
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:39:00 -
[569] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.
It can't be that hard to understand......... Fitting requirements are much lower on 425mm AC, then they are on Heavy pulse, and on a ship that many are saying is going to be very tight, this is kinda a big deal. The cap usage, and the ability to pick damage types are the main reasons why people pick AC, over pulse normally. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1621
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Posted - 2013.10.03 16:44:00 -
[570] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote: It has not been made clear, but i believe these ships will not require the covert ops skill.this leads me to believe that they are trying to increase the accessability of these vessels. You will need to train up the cloaking skill and the prerequise skills to fit the cloak anyway. I do not believe, but i could be wrong, that the intention is to make a ship less powerful than the current covert ops ships, and there is nothing to stop them adding features to those to increase the desireability. Have they been through their review yet?
The point is that if the virus strength remains at 5% there is absolutely no reason to fly them apart from pew pew. A covert ops does the exploring side better.
I don't think you understand my point, The +10 virus strength for covert ops ships makes them very powerful in one role. the SOE ships are supposed to be all in one ships capable of pew pew and hacking. by rights it should not be able to do a specialized role better than a t2 ship, but be able to perform its role better than all other ships.
The 35 virus strength that the ship will have is good enough to do null sec sites, but a covert ops will do it better still. the difference is if a covert ops ship is caught in the site it will die, these ships have a fighting chance.
I can only assume that when the +5 virus strength was chosen T2 relic and data analyzers were in mind and not T1 relic and data analyzers. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
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