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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 20 post(s) |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
752
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:50:00 -
[361] - Quote
Vincent Ageon wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Vincent Ageon wrote:...Is the ship itself OP? As it stands, its awesome, yes but perhaps not OP. As an exploration ship? Yes. OP as hell. It's intended as an exploration combat ship. It's also unique in that specialization. If it's not OP in that niche wouldn't that mean it has failed in design? As a cruiser sized hull that would do this much better than most BC hulls? Sure. Id take the smaller ship any day over something much more bulky and potentially more skill intensive to get the same results. This isnt the next Cynabal, Gila, or Vigilant. As pirate faction ships those should still shine, as they do as awesome ships but long term deployment exploration is something THOSE ships weren't exactly meant for. Covops is already a powerful tool. The concept as it stands is great but in application there is serious doubt thats what the majority of users will be using it for. If the bonuses stand as is, id look of for these as hunters. In lore as well, Sisters of EVE methods have at times been questionable or rumored to be so, bu never out right pirat like. If anything there explorers with strong defensive/evasive capabilities. Little bit of teeth? Sure, when fighting is forced, but the Cruiser hull will be the one forcing fights if its not looked at what players will most likely do with it verses the reason for why the ship is being introduced to begin with. If CCP was looking to give us another combat focused ship, Id want say a serpentis version of the Brutix (since the serp vexor skin was already used as a torni prize). Opinions regarding what we'd like to see added regarding ships isn't really the best feedback here, but that aside, part of what is desired from a combat PvE ship, which is where the cruiser is aimed vs it's frigate counterpart for non-combat sites, is damage output and application. If the ship becomes anemic in DPS or falls significantly below it's counterparts, even the non cloaky ones, it will not find use. Of course this means it will be used in other ways, but honestly that is a non issue to me as this is a combat ship. It will be used for PvP so long as it has any real capability there. And it will if it's any good in its intended role. |
Dehval
Risk Breakers Fidelas Constans
12
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Posted - 2013.10.03 00:51:00 -
[362] - Quote
Ravasta Helugo wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Dehval wrote:That fact that you can choose your targets is what makes the 1.1k dps so extreme. No other ship with that kind of damage output has that ability.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think the problem is not that huge dps is that it can field the ogres whiel having PLENETY space for backup drones. REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved I think the drone bay makes sense, actually. They just combined the two drone-weapon races for the first time. The drone bay should be incredible. Honestly? If I had my way I would lower the drone damage bonus to 5% per level, but give it a 5% Laser damage bonus per Amarr cruiser level as well. Switch the cap usage to 100% bonus damage, drop down to 2 (maybe 3) hardpoints. It is now more focused towards lasers (the original intent) and the Blaster Gank fit is no longer viable. The overall dps of the ship suffers a little now that you can't just stack DDAs to get over 900, but at least it isn't in Hyperion/Talos levels of bullshit damage for a covert class cruiser. |
Vincent Ageon
Phoenix Administration
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:54:00 -
[363] - Quote
200m3 Drone bay 900m3 Cargo 5/5/5 4TH
40% Scan bonus 7.5% Virus Strength 15% Ship Tractor speed (not tractor beam) 25% Hacking/Analyzer module range
(stats not mentioned proposed to remain the same)
Thoughts?
This would make it more marketable as a explo anom runner, still give it offensive ability but not to match other ships specialized FOR that role, addresses the drone bay and cargo issue, keeps the High for utility but drops a turret to push for it. Thoughts? |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
331
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:54:00 -
[364] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote: REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved
The drone bay is fine as is. Given the role of extended deployment/exploration a large drone bay is necessary. If you can't replace lost drones while deployed deep in nullsec then the ship is useless. That's why the drone bay and cargo are so large, its a necessity of the role. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1612
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:57:00 -
[365] - Quote
Dehval wrote:Ravasta Helugo wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Dehval wrote:That fact that you can choose your targets is what makes the 1.1k dps so extreme. No other ship with that kind of damage output has that ability.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think the problem is not that huge dps is that it can field the ogres whiel having PLENETY space for backup drones. REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved I think the drone bay makes sense, actually. They just combined the two drone-weapon races for the first time. The drone bay should be incredible. Honestly? If I had my way I would lower the drone damage bonus to 5% per level, but give it a 5% Laser damage bonus per Amarr cruiser level as well. Switch the cap usage to 100% bonus damage, drop down to 2 (maybe 3) hardpoints. It is now more focused towards lasers (the original intent) and the Blaster Gank fit is no longer viable. The overall dps of the ship suffers a little now that you can't just stack DDAs to get over 900, but at least it isn't in Hyperion/Talos levels of bullshit damage for a covert class cruiser. that will only change the lol shield gank fit to, 950 DPS before heat and t2 mods. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Nyancat Audeles
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
496
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 00:59:00 -
[366] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Dehval wrote:That fact that you can choose your targets is what makes the 1.1k dps so extreme. No other ship with that kind of damage output has that ability.
Couldn't have said it better myself. I think the problem is not that huge dps is that it can field the ogres whiel having PLENETY space for backup drones. REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved The problem with a 200 meter drone bay, is if you lose a drone or two it is back to the station to regroup and then head out again. kinda makes the extended engagement a little shorter than extended.
THIS.
It's an exploration ship. Stop focusing on PvP. EFT DPS is NOT EFFECTIVE DPS.
EDIT: Shield gank fit anything, and that's exactly what it will be: Shield gank with high dps.
But nerfing a ship based on how it performs in a shield gank role is plain stupid. Because then for the actual purpose of the ship - long deployment exploration - it will be absolutely useless. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
752
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:01:00 -
[367] - Quote
Vincent Ageon wrote:200m3 Drone bay 900m3 Cargo 5/5/5 4TH
40% Scan bonus 7.5% Virus Strength 15% Ship Tractor speed (not tractor beam) 25% Hacking/Analyzer module range
(stats not mentioned proposed to remain the same)
Thoughts?
(perhaps dropping drone damage to 5% per level and add laser dmg per level as someone stated above?)
This would make it more marketable as a explo anom runner, still give it offensive ability but not to match other ships specialized FOR that role, addresses the drone bay and cargo issue, keeps the High for utility but drops a turret to push for it. Thoughts? "15% Ship Tractor speed (not tractor beam)" > I'm not understanding here "200m3 Drone bay" > Why are we nerfing the intended use (prolonged deployment) but not the cloaky gank fit? |
Vincent Ageon
Phoenix Administration
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:01:00 -
[368] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved
The drone bay is fine as is. Given the role of extended deployment/exploration a large drone bay is necessary. If you can't replace lost drones while deployed deep in nullsec then the ship is useless. That's why the drone bay and cargo are so large, its a necessity of the role.
Carry a mobile fitting array and you wont ever need to have a large drone bay unless you were PvPing and didnt know what you were engaging. |
Vincent Ageon
Phoenix Administration
0
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:03:00 -
[369] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Vincent Ageon wrote:200m3 Drone bay 900m3 Cargo 5/5/5 4TH
40% Scan bonus 7.5% Virus Strength 15% Ship Tractor speed (not tractor beam) 25% Hacking/Analyzer module range
(stats not mentioned proposed to remain the same)
Thoughts?
(perhaps dropping drone damage to 5% per level and add laser dmg per level as someone stated above?)
This would make it more marketable as a explo anom runner, still give it offensive ability but not to match other ships specialized FOR that role, addresses the drone bay and cargo issue, keeps the High for utility but drops a turret to push for it. Thoughts? "15% Ship Tractor speed (not tractor beam)" > I'm not understanding here "200m3 Drone bay" > Why are we nerfing the intended use (prolonged deployment) but not the cloaky gank fit?
When you run a data site, your trying to grab all these little cargo containers. Your ship has a standard tractor and you can grab one container at a time. This often leads to a loss of several containers as theres just not time to grab all of them. And with Rubicon were getting a mobile fitting array so the drones you'd want would just sit in your cargo until you needed them. |
Sven Viko VIkolander
Stay Frosty.
88
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:08:00 -
[370] - Quote
POWER CREEP.
Enough said. |
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Eko Fromtv
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
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Posted - 2013.10.03 01:10:00 -
[371] - Quote
Vincent Ageon wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved
The drone bay is fine as is. Given the role of extended deployment/exploration a large drone bay is necessary. If you can't replace lost drones while deployed deep in nullsec then the ship is useless. That's why the drone bay and cargo are so large, its a necessity of the role. Carry a mobile fitting array and you wont ever need to have a large drone bay unless you were PvPing and didnt know what you were engaging.
The depot that you carry will surely be packaged. (Ice) Miner for life. |
Unezka Turigahl
Det Som Engang Var
131
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:13:00 -
[372] - Quote
If Stratios gets 500 drone bay then Ishtar wants 500 drone bay too. Hrmph!
Or at least 400, like the Gila. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
1612
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:15:00 -
[373] - Quote
Unezka Turigahl wrote:If Stratios gets 500 drone bay then Ishtar wants 500 drone bay too. Hrmph! Or at least 400, like the Gila. If the Ishtar gets 500 drone bay then Stratios gets t2 resists. Novis Initiis is Recruting-á --á Ideas for Drone Improvement |
Kai Ho
true carebear club
1
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:15:00 -
[374] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:HERE THEY ARE Stratios
Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Useless bonus. Pilots will fit some Projectile in this ship, which dont use capacitor . Give them some damage or tracing bonus, if you want user Energy Turret. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
310
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:21:00 -
[375] - Quote
Nyancat Audeles wrote:
THIS.
It's an exploration ship. Stop focusing on PvP. EFT DPS is NOT EFFECTIVE DPS.
EDIT: Shield gank fit anything, and that's exactly what it will be: Shield gank with high dps.
But nerfing a ship based on how it performs in a shield gank role is plain stupid. Because then for the actual purpose of the ship - long deployment exploration - it will be absolutely useless.
"I don't care what anything was designed to do, I care about what it can do. " ~Apollo 13
And it isn't in a shield gank role, it's in a cloaky gank role which puts it in a fundamentally different category. The ship, in its current form, can fit that role regardless of what else it was designed to do. It's up to CCP to decide if it doe cloaky ganking too well, well enough, or not well enough.
There are two types of people in this thread, those that see what this ship will be used for in pvp, and those that want to run 6/10's without using a scout alt to check the gate if its clear to jump in the next system. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
331
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:21:00 -
[376] - Quote
Vincent Ageon wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved
The drone bay is fine as is. Given the role of extended deployment/exploration a large drone bay is necessary. If you can't replace lost drones while deployed deep in nullsec then the ship is useless. That's why the drone bay and cargo are so large, its a necessity of the role. Carry a mobile fitting array and you wont ever need to have a large drone bay unless you were PvPing and didnt know what you were engaging.
We don't know how big the depots will be, and nerfing the drone bay hurts long term exploration more so than PVP. Decreasing drone bay won't hurt cloaky ganker fits as much as it will long term exploration fits. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
331
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:21:00 -
[377] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: "15% Ship Tractor speed (not tractor beam)" > I'm not understanding here
When the cans in Data/Relic sites spew their stupid cans (not a good mechanic CCP, the minigame is good, but the cans are stupid) there is a tractor beam that pulls in the spewcan, which gives you your item when it finally reaches your ship.
Increasing the Ship Tractor beam would reel them in faster.
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy Caldari State
529
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:23:00 -
[378] - Quote
Cage Man wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
Uhh, i'm just kinda wondering... what's that point in the frig, if the cruiser has everything the frig does, and more?
whats the point of any frig then?
That's a no brainer though.. Frigs provide things like tackle and so on... They don't necessarily provide all the same things that a cruiser can provide.
However, in this case, the cruiser is just a bigger better version than the frig..
I mean, does anyone see the point in using the frig over the cruiser?
You're faster... That's about it...
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M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
332
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:26:00 -
[379] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Nyancat Audeles wrote:
THIS.
It's an exploration ship. Stop focusing on PvP. EFT DPS is NOT EFFECTIVE DPS.
EDIT: Shield gank fit anything, and that's exactly what it will be: Shield gank with high dps.
But nerfing a ship based on how it performs in a shield gank role is plain stupid. Because then for the actual purpose of the ship - long deployment exploration - it will be absolutely useless.
"I don't care what anything was designed to do, I care about what it can do. " ~Apollo 13 And it isn't in a shield gank role, it's in a cloaky gank role which puts it in a fundamentally different category. The ship, in its current form, can fit that role regardless of what else it was designed to do. It's up to CCP to decide if it does cloaky ganking too well, well enough, or not well enough. There are two types of people in this thread, those that see what this ship will be used for in pvp, and those that want to run 6/10's without using a scout alt to check the gate if its clear to jump in the next system.
Not to mention that 900 DPS comes at the cost of a poor tank, less than 30k.
Nothing is perfect at everything, and the cruiser-whos-name-I-haven't-yet-learned is not an exception. The gank comes at the cost of tank, and ignoring an armor resist bonus. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Tibalt Avalon
SVER Bloodpack Insidious Empire
21
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:26:00 -
[380] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: Astero
Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus) Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers
Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices
Amarr Frigate Bonus: 4% bonus to Armor Resists
Gallente Frigate Bonus: 20% bonus to drone hitpoints
Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600 Capacitor (amount) : 430 Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75 Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6 Sensor strength: 13 Signature radius: 35 Cargo Capacity: 210
Great but....how come 20% Drone Hitpoints...that is one of the most useful bonuses to me that that could have really...Why can't you add in 10% Drone Damage 10% Drone Tracking or Drone Speed? that would make the ship much more awesome for PVP & PVE
That thing doesn't even have bonus to anything related to damage...pleeeeeeease add some in
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Jeanne-Luise Argenau
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
15
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Posted - 2013.10.03 01:27:00 -
[381] - Quote
i just checked the stats and my first feeling on it is over the top. The Frigate is a damn Light Cruiser in some ways and that cruiser looks to me more like a battlecruiser. but if it is the intent i wont say no. |
Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
24
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Posted - 2013.10.03 01:27:00 -
[382] - Quote
Where is the SOE battleship?
All other faction races have battleships.
Come on!
Also let's get some Thukker faction ships with Caldari/Min! |
The Sinister
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
14
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Posted - 2013.10.03 01:29:00 -
[383] - Quote
Joe Risalo wrote:Cage Man wrote:Joe Risalo wrote:
Uhh, i'm just kinda wondering... what's that point in the frig, if the cruiser has everything the frig does, and more?
whats the point of any frig then? That's a no brainer though.. Frigs provide things like tackle and so on... They don't necessarily provide all the same things that a cruiser can provide. However, in this case, the cruiser is just a bigger better version than the frig.. I mean, does anyone see the point in using the frig over the cruiser? You're faster... That's about it... The point of the frig is not exploration LOL I thought u all knew that by now. |
Lloyd Roses
Blue-Fire Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
268
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:30:00 -
[384] - Quote
I wanna BLOPS people with that cruiser so hard! No honestly, 125mbit doesn't go well with a cloak I fear. Fleets of that thing (as it is a sentry heavy droneboat with a covert cloak and armorresistboni) will be all over w-space, pls do not introduce a covops-ishtar! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3633385&#post3633385 - 15% more tank since the 1.1-patch. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
752
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:31:00 -
[385] - Quote
Vincent Ageon wrote:M1k3y Koontz wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote: REduce drone bay to 200 meters and the problem is solved
The drone bay is fine as is. Given the role of extended deployment/exploration a large drone bay is necessary. If you can't replace lost drones while deployed deep in nullsec then the ship is useless. That's why the drone bay and cargo are so large, its a necessity of the role. Carry a mobile fitting array and you wont ever need to have a large drone bay unless you were PvPing and didnt know what you were engaging. Too many unknowns there. At first thought we don't know how easy those will be to transport, fuel or otherwise supply. They also will provide what you don't want, which is a beacon for a good spot to lay a trap. Being glued to one spot or a structure is again the antithesis of the design intent. |
Endo Saissore
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:31:00 -
[386] - Quote
Reducing the drone bay is pointless. It will only effect how long you can explore null/wormhole space (which is the purpose of the SoE cruiser. Long deployment exploration that can bite back). It doesn't address CPU issues, how to entice people to fit lasers on it, or its damage output. Lets please move on. |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
332
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:33:00 -
[387] - Quote
Endo Saissore wrote:Reducing the drone bay is pointless. It will only effect how long you can explore null/wormhole space (which is the purpose of the SoE cruiser. Long deployment exploration that can bite back). It doesn't address CPU issues, how to entice people to fit lasers on it, or its damage output. Lets please move on.
I have to second this, the issue here is more about drones than about the SoE cruiser itself. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Endo Saissore
The Scope Gallente Federation
14
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:34:00 -
[388] - Quote
Lloyd Roses wrote:I wanna BLOPS people with that cruiser so hard! No honestly, 125mbit doesn't go well with a cloak I fear. Fleets of that thing (as it is a sentry heavy droneboat with a covert cloak and armorresistboni) will be all over w-space, pls do not introduce a covops-ishtar! This is not a cov-ops Ishtar. Without a tracking bonus Sentries aren't able to project damage to anything above a battle cruiser. Ishtar wins with drone damage application. |
Thaddeus Eggeras
TwoTenX LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
24
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Posted - 2013.10.03 01:35:00 -
[389] - Quote
I do agree the CPU needs to be looked more into. I do think the frigate should have 3 high slots, just to give it more options all in all. |
PotatoOverdose
SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION
310
|
Posted - 2013.10.03 01:40:00 -
[390] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Not to mention that 900 DPS comes at the cost of a poor tank, less than 30k.
Nothing is perfect at everything, and the cruiser-whos-name-I-haven't-yet-learned is not an exception. The gank comes at the cost of tank, and ignoring an armor resist bonus.
My problem is it does 1127 dps before heat. That's twice as much as a cloaky proteus, and 3 times as much as a typical cloaky loki.
In a typical nullsec site (the one's that people run solo anyway) you'll get about 400-600 incoming dps from the npc's, and then that cruiser uncloaks on top of you and...boom. As a ganker, I think it's a little over the top.
I'll use the ship to gank along with everyone else, but there's a point where it stops being reasonable. You're getting Talos levels of dps on a cruiser with a covops cloak. And the Talos uses blasters, and the Talos gank fit only has 29k ehp, and that had to be nerfed in one of the recent patches.
IDK, it just seems a bit much for a covops cruiser. But I'll happily retire my Cloaky Proteus when it comes out, I guess... |
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