CCP Rise can you post us some cargo capacity numbers for these?

should the cruiser also have the cpu requirement reduction on cloak? or is it supposed to only have 300 effective cpu?

frigate needs another high, can't fit covops cyno, cloak and probes

You're probably supposed to make sacrifices. You can't fit cloak, salvager, and a probe launcher at the same time as well.

resist profile for those ? Same as gallente or amarr. Or completly diffrent ?

I guess those ships are not overpowered. Look cool and all. Dunno why there is no energy bonus on frig for dem lasers as on cruiser tho.

FIRST.

Only 2 High slots on the Astero?? So, if you have a cloak and a probe launcher, you get no turrets at all, just drones...

I like the setup on the Stratios though.

Can I join your corp.

I do question the armor resistance bonus only on the fact you (CCP) have said how you really dislike the passive resistance bonuses. Is it wise to be introducing more ships with these into the game?

Can you jumps these via covert jump portals? Don't care about cyno.

Can you jumps these via covert jump portals? Don't care about cyno.

Please,if you can't increase the virus strength to match covert ops, let the covert ops skill add the other 5% i would hate not to be able to use this and forced to use covert ops instead. This is sisters of eve! They are meant to be good at scanning and exploration!

:( @ the 2/4/4 on the frig; needs more highs for pew pew and cloak/probe. 4/4/4 would be great!

The laser cap bonus is kind of an arbitrary bonus, without a damage or tracking bonus it will be neglected for what ever the pilots favored weapon will be. Usually autocannons.

The 37.5% scan bonus is a perfect fit as is the +5 to virus strength.

I'm not liking the 5/5/5 slot layout, a 4/5/6 would optimize the ship for exploration. Or better a 5/4/6.

More bandwidth on a cruiser than on any battleship? Are the rest of the pirate factions going to be following this design trend? This is just better than the Gila in every way.

You may be correct ... but pirate ships are before balance pass. So this Gila may be diffrent from new Gila.

I second that ... faction ship may have bigger bonus than standard t1 even if it is not T2. (just to mention 25% bonus energy turret on augoror/slicer etc)

Was considering optimal bonus instead of cap use. Maybe can continue to consider that. We didn't want to do damage bonus in the role bonus because then you would have like 900 dps covert cloaking cruiser which is way too much. Optimal might work though.

Funny, I was expecting something more faction neutral, like the Gnosis, where you can choose pretty much what weapons system you want. Could've been interesting. And since there is no role bonus anyway on dmg or projection, most people will end up fitting autocannons ! So ... What about removing the laser capa bonus, and replacing it either by a bonus for each weapon system (and add 2 missiles points), or replacing it by another exploration bonus, and letting us choose our weapons ?

Was considering optimal bonus instead of cap use. Maybe can continue to consider that. We didn't want to do damage bonus in the role bonus because then you would have like 900 dps covert cloaking cruiser which is way too much. Optimal might work though.

Confirming new Gila will be different and hopefully very cool.

Confirming new Gila will be different and hopefully very cool.

Do you have the Warp speed stats for the two? as it will become quite important.

And cap bonuses on a weapon system... didn't we all agree that we dislike those? can't you give it something that makes you actualy fit lasers instead of projectiles...

On the cpu issue: I think the ship is so cpu limited, that people will be forced into fitting autocannons instead of lasers, particularly if you want to hunt ratters in it (cloak + combat probes is already most of your cpu)

Can I ask somethign...? you intend to visit the recons before or after the pirate ships?

In case it got missed, can you confirm the resist profiles for the ships? They are normal t1 gallente resists, not t2 hac or something silly?

Ask yourself this, what pirate ship has any kind of advanced resistances?

Yes, normal t1 resists.

We'll talk about the CPU thing. We've talked about it some already of course, but we'll spend some more time and make sure we're happy with it.

From a pure data/relic exploration perspective the racial covops frigates still look to have a significant leg up. Anyone planning on just doing data/relic may want to just stick to their favorite covops.

Covops frigs enjoy an extra +10% flight speed per level, +5 extra virus strength, and better potential + probe scan strength (+10% per level vs static 37.5%). The virus strength bonus is marginal right up until it's amazing when you're hacking one of those darn restoration + virus strength weakening containers. The flight time is a nice bonus just to speed things up. Scan strength you can take or leave depending on your skills.

My Cheetah and I will keep fighting the good fight.

But then again these are general purpose ships so vov

always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.

From a pure data/relic exploration perspective the racial covops frigates still look to have a significant leg up. Anyone planning on just doing data/relic may want to just stick to their favorite covops.

Covops frigs enjoy an extra +10% flight speed per level, +5 extra virus strength, and better potential + probe scan strength (+10% per level vs static 37.5%). The virus strength bonus is marginal right up until it's amazing when you're hacking one of those darn restoration + virus strength weakening containers. The flight time is a nice bonus just to speed things up. Scan strength you can take or leave depending on your skills.

My Cheetah and I will keep fighting the good fight.

But then again these are general purpose ships so vov

Hello CCP Rise,

Thank you for this AWESOME line of ships. However, there are some minor things that seem to ... not play out as you hope to.
For example, you state that they will support




Which is pretty cool imo, since this isn't the Ammarrian approach on drones (If we have drones, we either have missiles or don't use any other weapon system at all).
However, the bonuses you worked out don't favor the use of lasers. For example the Astero. You're giving it 2 Hardpoints, while at the same time, only 2 highslots. So if people decide to fly it into combat, they most likely would use the cov ops cloak, too, leaving the ship with one turret to use - which then isn't even bonused to use lasers.
For the Stratios you grant a Role Bonus for a 50% reduction in capacitor use, but that's it again, there's no other bonus for lasers. So why would anyone use lasers here over, let's say Blasters since they're going to be able to sneak up close, or autocannons so they can choose the damage they want do deal?

If i were to emphasize their use onto lasers and drones, i would probably reduce the hardpoints, like Sansha and Bloodraider have, while giving them a similar rolebonus on their damage. This forces them into lasers, while granting a cap-bonus the same time.


Next up, the damage potential of an Astero. You'll have 5 drones + 1, maybe 2 unbonused turrets - if you give up on the cloak. This leaves you with ~100 dps from a flight of hobgoblins + 1/2 unbonused turrets, so i think people will be able to top out at ~200 dps in a ganky setup. Which is pretty, ... let's say, average. Because for this you sacrifice a lot of the ship's role. A Firetail, a navy frig (which can't covops cloak to be fair), can do some 160-170 dps in a relative tanky setup. Keep in mind that the Comet and Slicer can top this with relative ease, and maybe you start, like me, feeling that it might pack SOME more punch.

I would for example suggest a reduced bandwidth with a rolebonus on drone damage. The Maulus or Crucifier for example have 4 respecitvely 3 drones.
For the Asteros i would suggest a rolebonus of 100% towards Drone damage, Repair amount and E-War strength (maybe not for ECM) (and maybe some Access Difficulty Bonus for salvage drones?), while giving it 15 Mbit bandwidth and 60m-¦ bay.
This would allow it to run with 6 effective drones while giving it a good bay to support a huge variety of drones. It would also improve the ship's performance with very rarely used (cause ineffective) drones like Stasis Webbers.

I would also consider moving it from 2/4/4 to 3/3/4, but then again this would cripple a lot of the exploration stuff this ship is also meant to do.






And just running some experiments with the Stratios right now:

The CPU is Enough. There is no need to buff it. I'm currently having something like the following:

[Stratios, Test test]
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Medium Armor Repairer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II

10MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Stasis Webifier II
Stasis Webifier II
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800

425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
425mm AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet Phased Plasma M
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II

Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Nanobot Accelerator I
Medium Anti-Explosive Pump I

Ogre II x5



Raw Armor: 3000
Resistance Profile (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 74,5 / 66,8 / 61,7 / 70,2
Active Tank: ~ 180 dps
Damage Output: 850 DPS
CPU Used: 475/500
Powergrid used: 993,54 / 1150


If i go with heavy neutrons i end up with 499/500 CPU and still ~100 free Powergrid and 900 raw dps.

Let's be honest: Remove the lousy 'Capuse Bonus' and give it 100% reduced locking delay after decloaking

It is because autocannons don't use any cap.

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550

Vexor Navy Issue: 5 heavy drones make this a very exciting ship, at the expense of almost all the gun damage. Flies like a modified Ishtar or Gila, sacrificing resists and dronebay for easier damage application.
Cruiser skill bonuses:
5% bonus to drone velocity and tracking
10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield
Slot layout: 4 H(-1), 4 M(+1), 6 L, 2(-3) turrets
Fittings: 800 PWG(+100), 310(+10) CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1650(-635) / 3000(+539) / 3000(+187)
Shield Recharge Time: 1250s(-550)
Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / average cap per second): 1500(+125) / 490s(-1.25) / 3
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 220(+40) / 0.44(-0.106) / 11310000(+400,000) / 6.9s(-1.36)
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125(+25) / 200(+100)
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 52.5km / 285(+9) / 7(+1)
Sensor strength: 20(+3) Magnetometric
Signature radius: 135
Cargo capacity: 460(+195)

I'm comparing the Stratios to a N.Vexor





Both have 10% drone HP and Damage
Both have same base resist profile.

Stratios has larger drone bay
Stratios has a larger Cargo Bay.
Stratios can utilize covert cloaks.
Stratios has better fittings.
Stratios has better capacitor.
Stratios gets role bonuses to Exploration (Scanning, Hacking, Analyzing)
Stratios has a 4%/level to Armor resists compared to a 5% drone velocity and tracking bonus.
Stratios has one less low, for an extra low and an extra high.

NVexor gets 25% more armor and hull.
NVexor has 25% faster base speed, but unsure how it will compare in mwd velocity.


TBH, doesn't this new ship pretty much obsolete the Navy Vexor?

I'm comparing the Stratios to a N.Vexor





Both have 10% drone HP and Damage
Both have same base resist profile.

Stratios has larger drone bay
Stratios has a larger Cargo Bay.
Stratios can utilize covert cloaks.
Stratios has better fittings.
Stratios has better capacitor.
Stratios gets role bonuses to Exploration (Scanning, Hacking, Analyzing)
Stratios has a 4%/level to Armor resists compared to a 5% drone velocity and tracking bonus.
Stratios has one less low, for an extra low and an extra high.

NVexor gets 25% more armor and hull.
NVexor has 25% faster base speed, but unsure how it will compare in mwd velocity.


TBH, doesn't this new ship pretty much obsolete the Navy Vexor?

The only source of this ship will be LP from null sec missions.

What are the LP prices for these?

Funnya s you testes AC and blasters and ignored the LASER. Specially at a REASONABLE range. Only the most innocent look at raw DPS numbers and think they mean something. Check damage on each 3 weapon systems at 20 km ( near edge of tackle range)

I prefer to kil lmy enemy faster with superior weapons > if you have half the dps in the AC you will end up using MORE cap at the fight (becausse of the other modules)

Unbonused laser DPS is nice. Until you're shooting into their highest resist and doing nothing because you can't actually select the damage you're doing to them.

Unbonused laser DPS is nice. Until you're shooting into their highest resist and doing nothing because you can't actually select the damage you're doing to them.

So you swap to berserkers.

Edit: Lets be honest - every rat hunter version of this ship will fit no turrets of any type. It will be cloak, probes, neuts, (cyno)

Base resist of ARMOR .. Pulses do about same damage as AC with FUSION. And when firing against shields Pulse lasers are far more powerful than AC with EMP.

AC are only strogn when they have their ROF bonus.

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L

Wondering a bit about the supposed 'large' cargo capacity on the cruiser. 550m3 is on the larger side for cruisers, but I was really expecting something more along the lines of the Gnosis -- that huge 900m3 cargo bay would really let this ship stay off the grid and out exploring for a really long time.

before bonuses apply, a 425mm Autocannon with RF Fusion will deal 37,3 dps. While shooting explosive. Or em. Or therm.
A Heavy Pulse laser with IN Multifreq will deal 41.6 dps. While being holed into EM / Therm.

So unless you're shooting ships that have a hole on EM / Therm, Projectiles are always better. and even then, they're maximum SLIGHTLY WORSE. It is true that it will be better at scorching ranges, but i already showed you earlier that this is basically where you want Railguns already.

Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and tracking speed

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75

Is there a Battleship planned, or just the Frigate and Cruiser? (cool with the 2 ships, just curious)

Stratios

Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 4H, 5M, 6L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550

For the later date i would say... maby Summer ?

not sure if the ship needs that many high slots. i would get more use out of an extra low so i can fit more tank or more gank but no real need to split weapon focus here.

before bonuses apply, a 425mm Autocannon with RF Fusion will deal 37,3 dps. While shooting explosive. Or em. Or therm.
A Heavy Pulse laser with IN Multifreq will deal 41.6 dps. While being holed into EM / Therm.

So unless you're shooting ships that have a hole on EM / Therm, Projectiles are always better. and even then, they're maximum SLIGHTLY WORSE. It is true that it will be better at scorching ranges, but i already showed you earlier that this is basically where you want Railguns already.

Was considering optimal bonus instead of cap use. Maybe can continue to consider that. We didn't want to do damage bonus in the role bonus because then you would have like 900 dps covert cloaking cruiser which is way too much. Optimal might work though.

No thanks, 5 HighSlots are ideal. Not too much, not too little. Well, a damage bonus for lasers would be even better, or at least a compromise, something like 25% cap usage bonus and 25% damage bonus for lasers.

Someone can dream, right?

HERE THEY ARE

I think we will have a lot of discussion here, these ships will be great for a lot of different things meaning people will be trying to tug them in a few different directions. That's fine!

What we're shooting for is ships that are themed around exploration and therefor make good platforms for a range of activities including probing, hacking, exploration combat sites, anoms, killing anom runners, spying on people, looking super sexy and generally being kind of awesome.

We're supporting that model with things like:

Covert cloaks

Exploration role bonuses

Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often

Extremely high ship agility

And more!

Anyways you guys can toy around with these specs and let me know what we missed or what you think would be better and I'll try to make everyone happy (which is usually easy).

Thanks!

Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and tracking speed

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 32 PWG, 170 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 540 / 600 / 600
Capacitor (amount) : 430
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 312 / 2.87 / 975000 / 3.88s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 25 / 75
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 37km / 620 / 6
Sensor strength: 13
Signature radius: 35
Cargo Capacity: 210

---

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Slot layout: 5H, 5M, 5L; 4 turrets, 0 launchers
Fittings: 920 PWG, 400 CPU
Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 1950 / 2400 / 2450
Capacitor (amount) : 1700
Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 182 / .47 / 9350000 / 6.09s
Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500
Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 55km / 275 / 7
Sensor strength: 20
Signature radius: 150
Cargo Capacity: 550

PICTURES (Sorry don't have in-client shots yet)

honestly i thought split weapon system was a thing of the past....

i would wait for blops reblance first... perhaps 1.1?

my assumption is the ship will be simular in function.

always amazes me how people liek to fit the weakest weapon system on this condition. AC have less dps than ANY weapon system, that is because minmatar ships have the ROF bonuses (strogner than damage ones). Lasers and blasters are far stronger when unbonused.

But are they just general purpose ships? that's not the idea about pirate faction ships, is it? From the lore description they are all round exploration ships,able to scan down and get the goodies in a hostle environment, why gimp down its advantage by giving it T1 frigate virus strength, if it was only meant to do easystuff in hisec why bother at all?
Please CCP make it what it is meant to be, use covert ops skills if you must, but let it shine at exploring! The cruiser too!

I don't see it that way. Drones are not a primary weapon system for me, I use them more for utility (ECM, anti-frigate / anti-drone) then as an actual weapon. Even my Pilgrim has two heavy beam lasers I somehow forced in between probe launcher and cov-ops cloak!

On the Astero, it does not get a drone damage bonus. Hypothetically speaking if it did get a bonus are the following DPS values too much for a frigate? Using Hobgoblin IIs
1 DDA 182.6 DPS
2 DDA 219.17 DPS
3 DDA 247.93 DPS (lol Shield Tanked)
4 DDA 264.06 DPS (Trolol Shield Tanked)

The cruiser is literally a straight upgrade to the Ishtar. It does everything better. I don't like that.

i would not remove the ability to fit lasors... just see no use in having a cap reduction bonus when its not the primary damage weapons system... if the ship had a lasor bonus instead of a drone damage bonus i would be with you on the utility argument...

but ccp likes options... and if enough people are happy with it i am fine with the majority rules.

Couple things.

First it seems silly the explo ships designed for explo aren't very good at explo....

If I need to explo in a frig, I'm just gonna get a buzzard and be done with it. It will likely cost less than the faction ship...
While it may not have the defense or the damage of the SOA frig, it is at least good at explo... even though thats not what the buzzard was really designed for in the beginning.

If I want an explo cruiser I'm going to get a t3... again better bonuses, way better defense, and likely same amount of offense, though probably more expensive than the SOE cruisers.

I would like to point out one more thing though. Right now the sisters explo probes are second best(RSS probes are slightly better) and probe launchers are the best in game. Doesn't it seem weird that they have really good launchers and probes but third rate ship bonuses? Shouldn't they at least match t2 bonuses or maybe even exceed them alittle?

Couple things.

First it seems silly the explo ships designed for explo aren't very good at explo....

Right now the sisters explo probes are second best(RSS probes are slightly better) and probe launchers are the best in game. Doesn't it seem weird that they have really good launchers and probes but third rate ship bonuses? Shouldn't they at least match t2 bonuses or maybe even exceed them alittle?

If I need to explo in a frig, I'm just gonna get a buzzard and be done with it. It will likely cost less than the faction ship...
While it may not have the defense or the damage of the SOA frig, it is at least good at explo... even though thats not what the buzzard was really designed for in the beginning.
.

The problem with SoE ships is that they follow the skill-split of pirateships, but cannot be as strong as pirate ships as their supply will be way, way higher (you can thank Osmon for that).

'*snip*

Drone and laser weapon systems with large cargo and drone bays so that you don't have to go home often

Stratios

Role Bonus: 50% reduction in Energy Turret capacitor need

*snip*

Or you could just call them Pilgrim & Curse.

Confirming new Gila will be different and hopefully very cool.

For Exploration Cargo minimum
frigate 325
Cruiser 700
+ hacking 5 is not enough

I think you meant drone and projectile (or hybrid for mad EFT deeps) weapons systems. Nobody used lasers on eg. Mallers before the tiericide gave it a damage bonus.

Only the people with brain use leasers you mean. Stop looking at raw dps numbers and check the real projection of damage.

I woudl love the current bonus exaclty because so many clueles people would fit AC on them makign them utter pathetic.

I love the look. What about adding a bay for those new deployables. Like being able to carry a mobile depot to allow you to refit far away from home.

Fits with the "home away from home" idea

Without any kind of damage bonus will use whatever weapon they like best. The specifics of damage application or weapon effectiveness wont matter.

for example despite the laser bonus I will end up using hybrids.

The best slot layout would have to be 4/5/6.
The +5 virus strength is plenty, for null one would usually be better off with a T3 due to the interdiction nullifier.
The laser bonus I suspect will go mostly unused. But could be wrong.

Hybrids are less bad than AC on an unbonused ship. But lasers have higher base damage and higher range than other turrets and with the cap usage bonus they use LESS capacitor than hybrids.

Stratios

Amarr Cruiser Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Cruiser Bonus:
10% bonus to Drone hitpoints and damage

Drones (bandwidth / bay): 125 / 500

I disagree. 5/5/5 is good, there is no reason to change things around. Especially since you can just lug your mobile depot around to refit on the fly in a safe spot. Besides be honest, you only think 4/5/6 is better because you use it for you favourite fit or something.

Only the people with brain use leasers you mean. Stop looking at raw dps numbers and check the real projection of damage.

I woudl love the current bonus exaclty because so many clueles people would fit AC on them makign them utter pathetic.

7)Laser cap reduction, I assume I'm in the same boat as everyone else as I seem to missing what the reduction in cap would actually be needed for and think most would assume its not and just end up using autocannons anyways. Was there something in the module setup that I missed? Why is the extra cap needed? 4% armor bonuses is awesome and true to the Amarr side of things. Armor rep would be more on the Gallante side but that would make "save as much cap" viable. Perhaps instead of a reduced cap bonus the cruiser can use a nuet bonus instead to shut off warp scrams and the like. That makes the reduced cap need for the lasers viable, uses up a high slot so its not so DPS heavy, allows the ship better survivability if it might escape, and gives it an interesting application in versatility to pvp fleets as everyone loves. The bonus would be small, sure and would definitely not match that of a cruiser designed for the role of neutering in pvp but idk. worth some thought.

Slot layout: 2H, 4M, 4L; 2 turrets, 0 launchers
Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

5/5/5 and shield tanked will get you nearly 1k dps and decent tank still while being able to fly around cloaked (needs a cpu implant and some meta modules). by moving a high to a low, it cuts a decent amount of damage off or prohibits you from being able to warp around cloaked.

Can't really give neut bonuses or you would basically have an (almost) all around better version of the Pilgrim. We really don't need ships stepping on each other's toes as is. I more or less agree with everything else.

4 medium slot are enough for armor tanker even if you will add scanning/hacking modules but 5 lows are not enough for any meaningful tank + damage mods. 6 low will greatly improve this ship.

P.S.
But even in current iteration this ship is overpowered above any reasons, and you called Angel ships "too good". IMHO 5 medium bonused drones + bonused highslots (change cap bonus for damage one please) will be more than enough.

But the main purpose of those new cruisers is exploration, so they need the additional HighSlot to stay viable.

+5 Hacking isn't enough to make it shine in it's chosen area. I get what your thinking but honestly, i'd consider raising it if you want to see them used for any extended length of time rather than that occasional collectors piece you take out as your bored.

As an exploration ship it needs mids, not highs. as a drone ship it doesn't need highs. As an armor ship it needs lows.

But people can and will use this ship for what ever they want to use it for. it will be a real sweet low sec mission ship because of its ability to fly around cloaked and still have good dps.

A small change in the original post - The Astero has 20% drone hp per level, not 10% drone hp/tracking. This was actually just a mistake I made when copying the post over by grabbing an older version of the bonuses. Sorry about that.

Hybrids are less bad than AC on an unbonused ship. But lasers have higher base damage and higher range than other turrets and with the cap usage bonus they use LESS capacitor than hybrids.

In the mean time keep the feedback coming and we'll give you updates as they come.

A small change in the original post - The Astero has 20% drone hp per level, not 10% drone hp/tracking. This was actually just a mistake I made when copying the post over by grabbing an older version of the bonuses. Sorry about that.

In general there's a lot of good feedback coming in already of course and I'm already imagining and beginning to discuss version two with the CSM and Fozzie etc. (looking closely at the drone bandwidth/bay, CPU situation and hacking capability of the cruiser especially) but I want to give plenty of time for us to think it through and let you guys discuss in detail before any changes are made.

In the mean time keep the feedback coming and we'll give you updates as they come.

I put this fit together so far

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II

1MN Afterburner II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II
Cargo Scanner II

Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I

[empty rig slot]
[empty rig slot]

3k EHP, CPU is at 170 I would use something similar to this fit. for, maybe some smaller combat sites, and data and arch sites. A good replacement for my buzzard.

Stratios
I like this ship a lot, and have some ideas for fits

I put this together

Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Damage Control II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II

10MN Afterburner II
Data Analyzer II
Relic Analyzer II
Cargo Scanner II
[empty med slot]

Sisters Core Probe Launcher, Core Scanner Probe I
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II
Focused Medium Pulse Laser II

Sits at 395.5 CPU

these fits i through together in a bit of a hurry... I am also still a beginner with fits. But I think the CPU will end up being a little low overall for these ships. Its manageable but would like to see more. Could always use overclocking rig as well.

let me know what everyone thinks.

HERE THEY ARE
Astero

Role Bonus: 100% reduction in CPU requiement for cloaks
Role Bonus: 37.5% increase Scan Prob Strength (maybe this should be a rounder number? right now it follows the t1 bonus)
Role Bonus: +5 Virus strength for Relic and Data Analyzers

Can fit Cover Ops Cloaking devices

Amarr Frigate Bonus:
4% bonus to Armor Resists

Gallente Frigate Bonus:
20% bonus to drone hitpoints

The frig doesn't get the bonus to drone tracking anymore?

Some food for thought regarding the laser bonus.

The ship has 2 racial qualities and a pirate faction theme.

Amarr qualities
Large Drone Bay, Armor Resistance Bonus.

Gallente qualities
High Drone Bandwidth, Drone Damage Bonus.

Sister of Eve theme
Exploration