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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Joan Greywind
No Swag Initiative
279
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:39:00 -
[271] - Quote
embrel wrote:E-2C Hawkeye wrote:Tippia wrote:E-2C Hawkeye wrote:If neither the defenders nor the offenders will use it then whats the problem?? Then it's just a 5% income nerf for nullsec rank and file that completely lacks and reason or purpose. Seems to me it has its purpose. CCP hired an economist specifically for this reason.....but let me guess I am sure you know more or better than that person......well of course you do, what was I thinking? good to see that after the financial crisis there are still a few who trust in economists. being one myself, I don't much. In the regard of the 5% nerf: how do you know what their assumption was regarding how much ESS would be used? CCP might have assumed that ESS will lead to more ISK in the game.
Yes because if there is a plague, it's the doctors to blame, cool logic. And we all know if some doctors **** some **** up, then we never trust all the the doctors forever.
Crisis happen, experts make mistakes, sometimes big one, doesn't mean the average joe is more knowledgeable now. And if you are an economist, you'd know that the crisis was caused by politicians and financial salesman that think they know jack **** about economics, and average joes that think they can beat the market. Real economist were warning about the highly leveraged economy and housing bubble before it happened (not all, but a significant number). People just didn't listen.
The reason of the ESS was never stated to be about "more isk", so stop making **** up. The reason behind it is to create tools that incentivise combat. Maybe it is less isk maybe it isn't, but you can bet on one thing, more explosions. |
La Nariz
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1422
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:41:00 -
[272] - Quote
Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:Pinky Hops wrote:La Nariz wrote:How about we experiment with this ESS first in Highsec. Then if its such a great idea and not just a useless thing no one will put up we can try it in nullsec. because the purpose of this whole change as stated by CCP Somiwhatever is to reduce nullsec ratting bounties as they have become some sort of out-of-control ISK faucet. i doubt highsec rats are much of an isk faucet as their bounties suck. Oh if that's the case we're already in highsec on our alts running l4s and doing incursions. So that means if they want to nerf nullsec income the ESS needs to be exclusively a highsec thing. It works perfectly that way. incursions and l4's dont generate a ton of isk. they generate a ton of loyalty points. which can be converted into an income, but they aren't pure isk faucets - or even close. they mostly generate wealth that is sold on the market. ratting is basically a pure isk faucet. note i'm not defending the ESS. i think it's a terrible idea - just pointing out some facts.
That doesn't matter, we are still in highsec doing those things so that means if they want to nerf our income then highsec is where these things need to be not nullsec. This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. |
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
3769
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:41:00 -
[273] - Quote
This is what happens when they pick ideas from the 'one-line bad ideas' thread. |
embrel
BamBam Inc.
101
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:47:00 -
[274] - Quote
Joan Greywind wrote: Crisis happen, experts make mistakes, sometimes big one, doesn't mean the average joe is more knowledgeable now. And if you are an economist, you'd know that the crisis was caused by politicians and financial salesman that think they know jack **** about economics, and average joes that think they can beat the market. Real economist were warning about the highly leveraged economy and housing bubble before it happened (not all, but a significant number). People just didn't listen.
The reason of the ESS was never stated to be about "more isk", so stop making **** up. The reason behind it is to create tools that incentivise combat. Maybe it is less isk maybe it isn't, but you can bet on one thing, more explosions.
Of course they didn't create it. However, I'm not sure about whether the "real economists" warned out of the right reasons. There are always some calling "Doom's coming". And when it comes, some were right.
but, let's not hijack the thread.
Was it then stated that ESS aims at reducing ISK? Didn't read it. Guess it was aimed at increasing pew and they thought that ISK would be roughly balanced otherwise they could adapt it later. |
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CCP Falcon
5725
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:47:00 -
[275] - Quote
It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design.
That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner.
Cheers.
CCP Falcon -á || -á EVE Community Manager -á || -á EVE Illuminati
@CCP_Falcon -á || -á-á@EVE_LiveEvents |
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Dave Stark
4199
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:49:00 -
[276] - Quote
just like orange is the new black, mixed opinions are the new overwhelmingly negative.
also there's no blue tag on the thread, i sense strange forum voodoo. |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
1727
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Posted - 2014.01.16 15:53:00 -
[277] - Quote
It's pretty clear CCP want to sell more GTCs and to do so they've decided to reduce players' profits and increase spendings. Thus sudden increase in material cost of battleships + decrease in income of ratters. I will not be surprised if we'll see increase in material cost of cruisers, then frigates + decrease in income from missions / FW / incursions / etc. |
Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
291
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:04:00 -
[278] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design. That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner. Cheers. the opinions don't seem to be very mixed to me... seems almost everyone hates it. we're ridiculing it for a reason.
welp, back to the drawing board |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2313
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:05:00 -
[279] - Quote
Lipbite wrote:It's pretty clear CCP want to sell more GTCs
This just in: Business Desires To Sell More Product, Member Of Public : "This is A Disgrace and directly related to my sads" *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
707
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:06:00 -
[280] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design. That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner. Cheers.
I hope you are also planning on gathering feedback from the 58-page threadnaught. I have questions I'm going to cross-post here, in the hope they get noticed and maybe (pie in the sky, I know) answered.
Eram Fidard wrote:Something that I am still quite curious about (and has not been answered yet): Was the ESS the feature referred to in the CSM8 Summer Summit Minutes? Soniclover moved on to discuss an additional disruption feature. This feature was shelved due to CCP and CSM concerns expressed during the summit, until a more satisfactory solution could be found.
If yes, what changes were made that are considered to be "a more satisfactory solution"? What concerns were expressed? How and why did this feature make it to singularity (and a dev blog) without further review? If no, (I am trying really, really hard to write this post so it cannot possibly be construed as "inflammatory") did you discuss the ESS at the CSM8 Summer Summit? What feature was "shelved due to CCP and CSM concerns"? If the feature shelved was not the ESS, just how bad of an idea was it, to get shelved, while such a fundamentally flawed concept (the ESS) managed to "pass muster"? Thank you in advance for answering any of these questions you can, SoniClover. I look forward to seeing if any other DEVs chime in, as well. This thread has turned into "SoniClover vs. EVE".
Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
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Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2313
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:06:00 -
[281] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote: seems almost everyone hates it.
Hence mixed, you frickin gump-slat *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Kate stark
1555
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:07:00 -
[282] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:the opinions don't seem to be very mixed to me...
a similar post just said the same thing. but we can't discuss moderation. shh. Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this. |
P'tank
Antwerpse Kerels Fidelas Constans
1
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:18:00 -
[283] - Quote
A big BOO for the ESS
To sum it up:
- Bubble: T3's and inties can avoid it - System wide: big BOO - will cause drama - Risk loosing 20% to gain 5% .. right .. - Use it to draw make pvp more rewarding: great .. but who's paying? Right the newbies. Vets don't rat, they got enough cash.
Suggestion: don't make it system wide, but limit it to a single grid? Make a special version of the mobile tractor unit which has such effects?
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Money Makin Mitch
Paid in Full
291
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:20:00 -
[284] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote: seems almost everyone hates it. Hence mixed, you frickin gump-slat he said very mixed. that would imply this piece of crap has a lot of support.
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die Retribution.
121
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:22:00 -
[285] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Quote:You know nullsec alliance are annoying as hell. You want free isk and do nothing for it. You want moon gold. You refuse to rat, you refuse to mine, you refuse to do anything that requires some effort. The reason they're annoying is because you're clueless. They don't want anything for free (or they'd be in highsec); they don't refuse to rat; they don't refuse to mine; they don't shy away from effortGǪ
let me get this straight you total absolute trolling idiot. I have lived in nullsec for years, i know damn well what i am talking about. All you ever do is post completely bigotted posts. to be honest i am totally sick of your constant moaning and trolling and derailing of topics because people dont agree with you. I am now going to block/hide you from the forums, because quite frankly i am tired of the trash that comes out of your mouth. You have no clue about anything. Good Day... ad you can post your usual pathetic retort because i wont see it - thank god
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Genseric Tollaris
SniggWaffe WAFFLES.
44
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:23:00 -
[286] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:i quite frankly would rather you all buggered off and stayed in null, less competition for fleet spots in high sec incursions. *shrug* but, that doesn't stop the ESS being terrible and the 5% bounty nerf being so far unjustified.
Yeah I wasn't serious. I make my isk farming lp in fw and trading in high sec. Tried incursions, they ain't my thing.
Personally, I like the idea of shaking up null income, and I agree with the goons I've seen suggest these should be in high sec as well. Hell they should be personal bounty siphons that you can put in any sec system and you get a cut of all bounties paid out. Suspect timer for thieving or shooting one that isn't yours. Don't last long, can't be scooped and don't go into reinforced and need to be scanned down. That'd really shake it up, and anything that allows players to interfere with other players is a good thing in my book. The mission hubs would sure be a lot more lively
Either way the reward certainly doesn't seem to justify the hassle of using the ESS for anything other than interfering with others just to **** them off. And if its to be introduced I think it needs more concrete applications other than tear harvesting. It could be pretty decent if it offered the potential for a sizable buff to bounty rewards. Perhaps the bonus it provides could increase over time the longer you can keep it intact. There's a lot better things that could be done with it, but as it is, it looks like it needs more work. |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2313
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:25:00 -
[287] - Quote
Money Makin Mitch wrote:Ramona McCandless wrote:Money Makin Mitch wrote: seems almost everyone hates it. Hence mixed, you frickin gump-slat he said very mixed. that would imply this piece of crap has a lot of support.
No it wouldnt; it would mean not everyone is having an eppy over its existance. *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Ramona McCandless
Epic Boo Bees
2314
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:27:00 -
[288] - Quote
[quote=tiberiusric total absolute trolling idiot....... ad you can post your usual pathetic retort because i wont see it - thank god [/quote]
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
Seriously, rather than actually answer the post you just start with the insults.
Its pretty obvious that you Sir are a hypocrit of the highest order
GOOD DAY *** Vote MTU For CSM *** "They feel the need to cover their ears and eyes in horror at your very presence." --áPontianak Sythaeryn Omnis nomiom nom nom nomi |
Eram Fidard
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
708
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:32:00 -
[289] - Quote
tiberiusric wrote:Tippia wrote:Quote:You know nullsec alliance are annoying as hell. You want free isk and do nothing for it. You want moon gold. You refuse to rat, you refuse to mine, you refuse to do anything that requires some effort. The reason they're annoying is because you're clueless. They don't want anything for free (or they'd be in highsec); they don't refuse to rat; they don't refuse to mine; they don't shy away from effortGǪ let me get this straight you total absolute trolling idiot. I have lived in nullsec for years, i know damn well what i am talking about. All you ever do is post completely bigotted posts. to be honest i am totally sick of your constant moaning and trolling and derailing of topics because people dont agree with you. I am now going to block/hide you from the forums, because quite frankly i am tired of the trash that comes out of your mouth. You have no clue about anything. Good Day... ad you can post your usual pathetic retort because i wont see it - thank god
Good posting you got there... Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Academy The ROC
2112
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:32:00 -
[290] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design. That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner. Cheers.
I would like to point out that if, as CCP SoniClover states, Nullsec ratting income is really too much of an isk faucet, you should simply nerf them.
The ESS manages to be both overly complicated and hamfisted in it's purpose. The opportunity cost for using it vastly outweighs any benefit of it's use. It should not make live in it's current state. Not posting on my main, and loving it.-á Because free speech.-á |
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tiberiusric
Comply Or Die Retribution.
122
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:43:00 -
[291] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:[quote=tiberiusric total absolute trolling idiot....... ad you can post your usual pathetic retort because i wont see it - thank god
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
Seriously, rather than actually answer the post you just start with the insults.
Its pretty obvious that you Sir are a hypocrit of the highest order
GOOD DAY[/quote]
Jeez gonna be blocking a few people today
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March rabbit
Federal Defense Union
1178
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:47:00 -
[292] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:tiberiusric wrote: total absolute trolling idiot....... ad you can post your usual pathetic retort because i wont see it - thank god
Seriously, rather than actually answer the post you just start with the insults. what other answer you want to that crap posted by Tippia? You really want people to seriously answer to that nonsense? The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
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Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
1035
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:51:00 -
[293] - Quote
EES sounds like good idea. However if the goal is to create more occasion for solo/small gang conflict around a "territorial" module and setting a prize for activelly patrolling/engaging (and an ISK loss for losing/evading the fight) then probably the gamble is not enough and should be on a wider range.
As others already said in the thread I also think ESS should beallowed in HS and low. Not sure how to handle the flagging related issue, but could be a good improvement.
And, yes, as others already pointed out, if was just to nerf ratting they had more efficient and easy ways to do it.
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Mr R4nd0m
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:54:00 -
[294] - Quote
Ramona McCandless wrote:[quote=tiberiusric total absolute trolling idiot....... ad you can post your usual pathetic retort because i wont see it - thank god
Do you kiss your mother with that mouth?
Seriously, rather than actually answer the post you just start with the insults.
Its pretty obvious that you Sir are a hypocrit of the highest order
GOOD DAY
Lol who is this douche?, tippia's alt probably or hes got a crush on him and is a little butthurt. |
Mr R4nd0m
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
155
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:56:00 -
[295] - Quote
Anyway it would be good if CCP would actually tell people the reasoning behind this in the first place? They just post something without giving any context or background as to why they are doing it. Probably would have saved half of the angry posts tbh |
seth Hendar
I love you miners
379
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:58:00 -
[296] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:It's quite clear that there are very mixed opinions on this, and we'll be looking to gather the feedback from this thread and hand it over to game design. That said, if people are annoyed, it's still not justification for taking a dump all over the forum rules. Make sure that your feedback is presented in a calm and concise manner. Cheers. 80 to 90% of ppl saying NO to a thing is not "mixed opinion", just sayin.
also, the current attitude of CCP Soniclover in the original thread, answering the 2 or 3 comments going his way and ignoring 40+ pages of comments going against IS, i quote you "taking a dump all over" the players.
not that we are not used to it since a few years, but maybe ppl start to be fed up with this general attitude, thus get more and more virulent at each new occurence of it......
hint: upsetting a playerbase in a recurrent manner is NOT A GOOD IDEA, sooner or later, this will swing back, just a matter of time, it already happened once, and it wasn't pretty.......
i love this game, hence why i do comment on incoming features, because i hope to help improve the game (same goes for mass test / bug reports etc....).
but lately, i tend to avoid it as much as possible, whatever feedback we give, it's plain ignored, mass test and bug reports following, or even TQ bug reports are just a pain in the rear to do, with NO FEEDBACK at all (sic!).
the feeling i have is that CCP doesn't care anymore about eve, and put it on the back burner, throwing a bunch of easy thing (deployable) in the hope the player keep playing, to milk as long as possible the diyng cow |
Mildew Wolf
130
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Posted - 2014.01.16 16:59:00 -
[297] - Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIZbGSXeWWE |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
9829
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:02:00 -
[298] - Quote
So if this is simply a way to nerf null income again I have to ask why they feel null needs another nerf given that it already lags behind high sec income.
What incentive exactly is there to make your isk in null these days? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Khalid DeCroix
Blackwater Swat. Against ALL Authorities
3
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:04:00 -
[299] - Quote
The ess is stupid, but I won't riot. I'll just blow it up every time I see it until blues quit anchoring the crap. |
Infinity Ziona
Cloakers
1409
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Posted - 2014.01.16 17:09:00 -
[300] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:So if this is simply a way to nerf null income again I have to ask why they feel null needs another nerf given that it already lags behind high sec income.
What incentive exactly is there to make your isk in null these days? The incredible drops, the almost complete safety, the exclusive benefits null sec gets over high sec?
The ESS sounds pretty damn fantastic. Why - because it means people using it have to decide if a) a neut enters system and they dock up like nullbears b) a nuetral enters system and they don't dock up like nullbears.
Besides there is an easy and totally safe solution to using it if you wanna be massive cretins...
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