When exactly do you have 10's of thousands of pilots per region? :)

I do agree anoms could use a buff. Though they're still better than L4s at higher anom levels.

How?

We have the numbers and none show that anoms get anywhere near what high sec level 4s can earn.

Please show us where you are finding these anoms.

Your numbers don't add up because you are comparing multiple account holding multiple ship running missioners who game the system so they only take the best LP offers by using their multiple accounts to spam agents in many systems.

The average missioner has one mission ship and one account and run missions as they come up. If they do decline twice they have to travel to a new agent to do the mission.

In that case your numbers are wrong. I ran missions to get isk since 2003 and there is no way to make 100 million per hour IMO.

Then you are bad at running missions. We have easy access to data that gives the rewards for every mission, how long it takes to run them, how much time is spent in warp and payment breakdowns.

All of this information is easy to find on several sites and in game if you take the time to test this like we have done. We are continuing to gather more and more data so that we can hand it over to CCP in CSM meetings and get them to fix this very long standing balance problem which will help with getting more people in smaller corps/alliances interested in trying to take a bitof null for themselves. Right now there is no reason to fight us for a worthless null system.

After salvage/loot you might get an extra 10-15mil

Some chains of missions, with full salvage/loot however you get quite a bit more.

The problem is that the majority of anomalies in 0.0 are never run because they're ****-tier. I'm sorry but "let's make 2-3 types of worthwhile anomalies and, to balance it out, make the rest so horrible that nobody will run them" isn't good game design.

A fully upgraded system with good truesec should support more than a few simultaneous anomaly runners. Make them more challenging, whatever, but make them worth running.

The problem is that the majority of anomalies in 0.0 are never run because they're ****-tier. I'm sorry but "let's make 2-3 types of worthwhile anomalies and, to balance it out, make the rest so horrible that nobody will run them" isn't good game design.

A fully upgraded system with good truesec should support more than a few simultaneous anomaly runners. Make them more challenging, whatever, but make them worth running.

The problem is that the majority of anomalies in 0.0 are never run because they're ****-tier. I'm sorry but "let's make 2-3 types of worthwhile anomalies and, to balance it out, make the rest so horrible that nobody will run them" isn't good game design.

A fully upgraded system with good truesec should support more than a few simultaneous anomaly runners. Make them more challenging, whatever, but make them worth running.

No the problem is you're renting your space instead of using it. Stop whining.

The ownership model does not affect how many people a single system can support.

It affects how many systems they have to run and that affects how many high end anoms are available in total to run.

Jump-drives and force projection means that there is no "behind the line", there are no "far-away places".

Because of jump-drives, pod-jumping, clone-jumping and bridges of all kinds, the universe is very small.

This is part of why the little guy can't do anything.

Then there is the sov system. Millions of HPs to grind, mails telling the owners what's going on etc.

There is no suprise, no stealth. You can't stealthly attack any sov structure nor any POSes because the owners will receive a mail instantly.

There is no guerilla, because in EVE, the entire US army moves as fast and as effectively as a BlackHawk with an elite SEAL squad.

There is no "small objective", because all structures have millions of HP and there is no possiblity for a suprise attack because you need to tell everyone what you're doing by anchoring and onlining SBUs.

This explains force projection issues pretty well

Let's see what's currently happening in nullsec. CFC vs N3. Won't talk about Proviblock because well, they're kinda irrelevent in the big picture.

CFC bitchslapped N3. What's going to happen now ? What is stopping the CFC from capturing N3's territory ? Nothing. Nothing in this game but DBRB's boring stories and Vily's *******-fueled welps can stop the CFC from capturing anything they want, anywhere.

Alright, let's say something happens. CFC captures N3 territory and resets Russians. Russians split in two. Alright, great, that's 4 coalitions !

No, look again. Russians will eventually fight eachother for no meaningful ingame ressource or anything, just an ego fight or a "I don't like you" kind of thing. Alright.

The CFC won't ever lose territory anywhere because of force projection.

Proviblock will probably stay in Providence until the CFC or the Russians decide that it's enough and they want that place.

Is this what we call "Not stagnant" ?

Map from 2007

Map from 2014

If you remove the usual chokepoint fights from 2007, there were 5 warzones. Yes, FIVE.

Now come 2014, the game has grown a lot, the playerbase has grown a lot too. How many warzones ?

One. Proviblock was told to sit in a corner by the CFC because they dared put up some SBUs in some place the CFC isn't even using or are remotely interested in.

Yes, THIS, IS CALLED "STAGNATION".

LOL..yes, people certainly believe any proof coming from a goon, who set the standard for honesty in the game.
Hey baltec, according to another study with equal veracity as this, you are considered as a safer person for 3rd party super-cap trading than Chribba.

Heh, "how much time spent in warp" Kid you keep talking about this "data" you have, and well I don't really feel like spending an hour or 2 trying to find this misery data. If you'd be so kind, post a link.


Personally I've been missioning for most the whole time I've been play, with the exception of a few months in WH, and a year in null.
Missioning, even with a pimpfit ship (which since the Nado is more of a liability than a benefit) and playing your cards right on LP (Though you can get a little more if you just spammed SOE LP, cause there's always a need for SOE probes. they really need to add a competing brand)
You might be lucky to break 65mil/hr.
If you have a ship set up for a specific mission, and you place yourself in an area with several agents and can get that mission often. In my case, this mission is Angel Extravaganza, and its run with a Golem (back on that whole, pimpfit mach is a liability, T2 golem gets scanning ships in missions but they leave after scanning for deadspace mods and finding nothing worth the cost of the 6 nadoes sitting a jump away that my friend is warning me about)
I might make 75-80mil/hr.
After salvage/loot you might get an extra 10-15mil

Some chains of missions, with full salvage/loot however you get quite a bit more.
#1 I'm pointing to is the Enemies Abound mission chain, which if you blast though in a ship (I used my Golem for it, even before the bastion mod) its not unreasonable in the 1.25-2.5 hours you do the chain, to see a nice 175-225 mil from it. (adjusted depending on local prices for tags, I've managed to get almost 250% over Jita prices by sell-ordering some tags a couple regions over)

During my time in null however, running around with a 100% dps Abaddon, in the drone regions (read that as theres no loot to make it more worthwhile) I was easily getting 100mil/hr + occasional niceties from sentients. Hell I was getting about 50-60mil/hr with a Drake. If only if only I'da had a Nightmare out there.



Yes though they do need to nerf L4s a bit income wise. Changing that though won't fix the bots, and it won't make it all that much better to try and move into null for the little guy because the big guys still have too much force projection.
ALso they jsut need to fix the smaller anoms. There should be the ability for people in null to anom without having to use common nullbear-grade battleships or carriers. Make some incentive for everyone in null to be anoming in their panicfleet HACs and BCs

No the problem is you're renting your space instead of using it. Stop whining.

in fact I advise anyone reading this thread to just ignore whatever Infinity Ziona says because he literally posts complete lies in every thread about 0.0 (such as "I make 100 billion isk per hour in -0.1 systems it's not broken!!!!") and in fact doesn't really have the first clue about the subjects he talks about

I just want to see Goons burn

So, here's your main problem: you salvage and loot. This has a tendency to massively reduce your income, especially if you do it fully.

It was fairly easy to get 75M/h four years ago, when the tools and mission manipulation abilities weren't nearly as good as they are today.

You are also running them wrong. You don't aim for the most isk when running level 4 missions, you go for the most LP.

Well when going for navy or equivalent LPs is really unworth it, and the SOE LPs seems to jsut pull aggro from gankers wever present in those systems. Going for the LPs only really works well for the navies if you have enough friends in lowsec to get you L5s without much danger.

Also I think its silly when people calim that LP is the best goal of missioing. In your isk/hr are you factoring all the extra time in that you search out a good market inwhich to sell your goods? What about hauling time? Or does everyone just live/sell in jita in your world?

I don't count LPs as part of the ISK/hr in missioning because they often require several more hours to get your money out of.
But hey I'm just a casual player and only put a couple hours into the game at a time when I can.

I don't personally loot/salvage any mission other than the EA chain (because thats the only way it becomes profitable)

I fleet up with noobs and let them salvage my missions for free (cause I like noobs). But I always have them give me a listing of what money they made.



Well when going for navy or equivalent LPs is really unworth it, and the SOE LPs seems to jsut pull aggro from gankers wever present in those systems. Going for the LPs only really works well for the navies if you have enough friends in lowsec to get you L5s without much danger.

Also I think its silly when people calim that LP is the best goal of missioing. In your isk/hr are you factoring all the extra time in that you search out a good market inwhich to sell your goods? What about hauling time? Or does everyone just live/sell in jita in your world?
I don't count LPs as part of the ISK/hr in missioning because they often require several more hours to get your money out of.
But hey I'm just a casual player and only put a couple hours into the game at a time when I can.

Also I think its silly when people calim that LP is the best goal of missioing. In your isk/hr are you factoring all the extra time in that you search out a good market inwhich to sell your goods? What about hauling time? Or does everyone just live/sell in jita in your world?
I don't count LPs as part of the ISK/hr in missioning because they often require several more hours to get your money out of.
But hey I'm just a casual player and only put a couple hours into the game at a time when I can.