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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Sheimi Madaveda
Arma Purgatorium Neutral in Local.
13504
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 01:05:00 -
[1561] - Quote
Buckethead bot wrote:i really dont see a single reason to take cruor over a sentinel, not to mention it will be x2/x3 more expensive. The pg nerf + only 3 mid/low slot lodout is making it a horrible ship to fit, get a decent tank , not to mention it dps. I Maybe would fly it if he will get an additional mid or low slot, plus maybe bit more PG.
Atm i will take 30 km neut range of sentinel any day over cuor (with 3 neuts you are going to cap dry a frigate target in 1/2 cycles, shuting down its prop mod = better speed reduce than the cruors single web) + i have t2 resists , a bonused td , less dps but i have an abiliti to have 4 ecm drones in my bay . And alot of isk saved
Yeah, the proposed web bonus on the Cruor only 'helps' it get 'close' (AKA 13-11km) to use shorter ranged neuts, which is a fancy way of saying that the Cruor has to use more slots, put itself in greater danger, and for what? Either marginally higher DPS or almost no DPS and marginally better neuting... but not enough to make it worth being close ranged.
I think it is odd that the Cruor gets a lot of stats that make it look just like a tackle frigate, like decently low sig (nothing to truly write home about, but it's not too shabby), the BEST lock time of a combat frigate (953 with max skills, compared to 775 of Kestrel or 1100 of Taranis) 4/3/3 utility high slot setup, low tank, and ship bonuses to tackle module -webs for the Blood Raiders- but it lacks two things to fulfill this role (besides being expensive):
Agility/Speed. Cruor lacks a lot of speed, and a bit of agility. If you'd just hand it 375m/s base speed (Fed Navy Comet) then the Daredevil and Dram would be faster as well as more agile, but the Cruor would have 20km web to abuse and utility neuts. To improve the agility, I would adjust the mass/inertia modifiers to make it so that plates don't weigh it a whole lot [GIVE IT BACK THE POWERGRID!] to make plate and active tank both viable choices with clear advantages.
Other good changes would involve buffing scan resolution so it locks more like a Taranis (the slowest locking inty in game). It's also nearly impossible to shoot drones without using metastasis rigs on Gatling Pulse if you don't swap your web onto the drone once your MWD is off so perhaps a role bonus to tracking would help it here. Or better drones (15mb/25m3 kinda deal)
Not saying that these suggestions are THE BEST EVAR GUYZ... but it makes sense that the Cruor would be a tackle frigate. I mean, Blood Raiders need fast tacklers too, right?
As for use as a solopwnmobile - buffing speed/agility makes it easier to use against potential kiters, and more tracking/drone power helps a little bit, too. Not a whole lot in that direction. Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png-á |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
209
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Posted - 2014.05.19 03:45:00 -
[1562] - Quote
Sheimi Madaveda wrote:
Yeah, the proposed web bonus on the Cruor only 'helps' it get 'close' (AKA 13-11km) to use shorter ranged neuts, which is a fancy way of saying that the Cruor has to use more slots, put itself in greater danger, and for what? Either marginally higher DPS or almost no DPS and marginally better neuting... but not enough to make it worth being close ranged.
I think it is odd that the Cruor gets a lot of stats that make it look just like a tackle frigate, like decently low sig (nothing to truly write home about, but it's not too shabby), the BEST lock time of a combat frigate (953 with max skills, compared to 775 of Kestrel or 1100 of Taranis) 4/3/3 utility high slot setup, low tank, and ship bonuses to tackle module -webs for the Blood Raiders- but it lacks two things to fulfill this role (besides being expensive):
Agility/Speed. Cruor lacks a lot of speed, and a bit of agility. If you'd just hand it 375m/s base speed (Fed Navy Comet) then the Daredevil and Dram would be faster as well as more agile, but the Cruor would have 20km web to abuse and utility neuts. To improve the agility, I would adjust the mass/inertia modifiers to make it so that plates don't weigh it a whole lot [GIVE IT BACK THE POWERGRID!] to make plate and active tank both viable choices with clear advantages.
Other good changes would involve buffing scan resolution so it locks more like a Taranis (the slowest locking inty in game). It's also nearly impossible to shoot drones without using metastasis rigs on Gatling Pulse if you don't swap your web onto the drone once your MWD is off so perhaps a role bonus to tracking would help it here. Or better drones (15mb/25m3 kinda deal)
Not saying that these suggestions are THE BEST EVAR GUYZ... but it makes sense that the Cruor would be a tackle frigate. I mean, Blood Raiders need fast tacklers too, right?
As for use as a solopwnmobile - buffing speed/agility makes it easier to use against potential kiters, and more tracking/drone power helps a little bit, too. Not a whole lot in that direction.
It it was beefy and could rely on nos to power a dual rep setup, I could see it doing well as a solo ship.
Double the neut/nos bonus and remove a high to a low, and THEN there's some things you can do with it. PG won't be as much of an issue if you only have one nos/neut to fit.
edit
It wouldn't be completely overpowered with the suggestions I made. The cap would be extremely fragile, and the dps wouldn't be stellar. Things like asb ships with capless weapons would give it pretty big problems. |
Sheimi Madaveda
Arma Purgatorium Neutral in Local.
13504
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 04:23:00 -
[1563] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote: It it was beefy and could rely on nos to power a dual rep setup, I could see it doing well as a solo ship.
Double the neut/nos bonus and remove a high to a low, and THEN there's some things you can do with it. PG won't be as much of an issue if you only have one nos/neut to fit.
edit
It wouldn't be completely overpowered with the suggestions I made. The cap would be extremely fragile, and the dps wouldn't be stellar. Things like asb ships with capless weapons would give it pretty big problems.
Hmmm, I think I like that sort of change a lot. I have always been wanting that fourth low slot, and if you look at that change for pure neut style Cruor, it makes the ship nearly self sufficient as the Nos provides enough cap to run the neuts for a very long time, while lending it a greater tank. For solo Cruor, the nos would hit like a neut... Not particularly stellar but tbh the fact that it gives you capacitor back makes it all worthwhile. Arma Purgatorium - Once for the State, Now for the King Low Sec, PvP, Industrial - Open for Recruiting http://armapurgatorium.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/arpur_recruit1.png-á |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
355
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 06:25:00 -
[1564] - Quote
Sheimi Madaveda wrote:Templar Dane wrote: It it was beefy and could rely on nos to power a dual rep setup, I could see it doing well as a solo ship.
Double the neut/nos bonus and remove a high to a low, and THEN there's some things you can do with it. PG won't be as much of an issue if you only have one nos/neut to fit.
edit
It wouldn't be completely overpowered with the suggestions I made. The cap would be extremely fragile, and the dps wouldn't be stellar. Things like asb ships with capless weapons would give it pretty big problems.
Hmmm, I think I like that sort of change a lot. I have always been wanting that fourth low slot, and if you look at that change for pure neut style Cruor, it makes the ship nearly self sufficient as the Nos provides enough cap to run the neuts for a very long time, while lending it a greater tank. For solo Cruor, the nos would hit like a neut... Not particularly stellar but tbh the fact that it gives you capacitor back makes it all worthwhile. the pure neut cruor works fine as is. the new cruor with pure neut wont neut anything because it doesnt have 90% webs. simple.
you would have to have 2 nos's to run the 2 neuts the ab the scram the web 1 nos wouldnt do it. so it wouldnt be a pure neut cruor at all. |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Cascade Imminent
89
|
Posted - 2014.05.19 12:34:00 -
[1565] - Quote
Flyinghotpocket wrote: the pure neut cruor works fine as is. the new cruor with pure neut wont neut anything because it doesnt have 90% webs. simple.
you would have to have 2 nos's to run the 2 neuts the ab the scram the web 1 nos wouldnt do it. so it wouldnt be a pure neut cruor at all.
the idea is to increase the neut/nos bonus to compensate for the moved high which would give it a 50% per lvl bonus but even with that change and with its old power grid back I can't see the cruor match up to the other pirate frigates/sentinel in power just because its power is so very situational and it is mandatory to use A-type nos on it
I think it should absolutely get a 75% nos/neut range role bonus Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
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Draco Knight
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
2
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Posted - 2014.05.19 21:21:00 -
[1566] - Quote
Crazy KSK wrote:Flyinghotpocket wrote: the pure neut cruor works fine as is. the new cruor with pure neut wont neut anything because it doesnt have 90% webs. simple.
you would have to have 2 nos's to run the 2 neuts the ab the scram the web 1 nos wouldnt do it. so it wouldnt be a pure neut cruor at all.
the idea is to increase the neut/nos bonus to compensate for the moved high which would give it a 50% per lvl bonus but even with that change and with its old power grid back I can't see the cruor match up to the other pirate frigates/sentinel in power just because its power is so very situational and it is mandatory to use A-type nos on it I think it should absolutely get a 75% nos/neut range role bonus
To keep it distinct from the curse and more so, true to the blood raider line and the new nos buff, it could just be a range bonus on nos range and effectiveness.
60% range per level on cruor 20% range per level on ashimmu No range bonus on bhaalgorn, since heavy nos range is fine.
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CCP Rise
C C P C C P Alliance
4236
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Posted - 2014.05.20 13:51:00 -
[1567] - Quote
Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. @ccp_rise |
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
700
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 14:02:00 -
[1568] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think.
I think just drop the webbing thing and drop the midslots down to 2, give it tank bonus and more lows. that makes a much more generally usable ship. 3 lows and no tank bonus is extremely limiting. add the ridiculously powerful web bonus, and you're primary forever in all frig gangs ever. less 'glass cannon', more versatile. I think lasers and neuts/nos is enough flavour for one line of ships, they don't need the web thing as well. |
Buckethead bot
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
10
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Posted - 2014.05.20 14:23:00 -
[1569] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think.
Cruor realy needed it, now you can have a fair combination of tank/dmg while still utilizing cruor bonuses. Maybe its not perfect but definietly flyable
if only the blood riders implant setup gave you neuting range not speed buff
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Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
815
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:12:00 -
[1570] - Quote
mm.. pirate racial implants bonuses.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
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Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Brave Collective
1171
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:32:00 -
[1571] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote: We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Its not entierly related, but I feel like there are two ways of considering drones for the game balance team.
- On one side, ships with drone bays have a precisely crafted drone bay with precise volumes (see my quote above to illustrate how the drone bay was 10m3 - an odd number already- to 5m3 -even odder-). So on this side things looks cool and balanced. Yes its odd to see a ship with less than five drones, but on the other hand this one or two extra drone make a noticeable impact.
- On the other side, you have ships (to quote a few : Moa, Garmur, Naga... even Eagle when compared to other HACs), with ZERO drone bay. Its straight, definitive... and bad?
Would these ships be so unbalanced with, say, 10/15m3 of brandwidth? Especially when other ships in their very same class have double or triple the amount of brandwidth without even being drone boats. I'd love to see more small drone bays on ships. Especially now that the drone gameplay and the choice it implies in terms of drone race, is getting better.
Any thoughts on that? Signature Tanking - Best Tanking. Beware the french guy!
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Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Cascade Imminent
89
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:39:00 -
[1572] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think.
This is very much a step in the right direction thank you Having flown the cruor a lot on the test server, I have to say that this will not be enough however, to bring it up to par with the other four it needs to have its drawback softened a bit. The most major drawback is the fact that it can be kited out of nos/neut range very easily, to alleviate that I suggest increasing the range on faction nos and neuts, overheated t2 scrams are currently the same range as a-type nos so even if you fit for bling you will still be kited halve the time by a ship fit much cheaper. Its dps is also so very low that I don't think the removal of the one light drone was necessary, I have lost to buffer fit ships simply because I could not kill them before I ran out of cap even though they where out of cap too
Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
2653
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Posted - 2014.05.20 15:41:00 -
[1573] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think.
i somehow don't see how the cruor might compete with the sentinel. They are both very different ships. Even if you would increase the neut/nos range of the cruor it wouldn't change much on the fact that they are very different. Its a bit like comparing dragoon with a sentinel, its a bit closer but still very different. eve style bounties (done) dust boarding parties imagine there is war and everybody cloaks - join FW |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
816
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:45:00 -
[1574] - Quote
Crazy KSK wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. This is very much a step in the right direction thank you Having flown the cruor a lot on the test server, I have to say that this will not be enough however, to bring it up to par with the other four it needs to have its drawback softened a bit. The most major drawback is the fact that it can be kited out of nos/neut range very easily, to alleviate that I suggest increasing the range on faction nos and neuts, overheated t2 scrams are currently the same range as a-type nos so even if you fit for bling you will still be kited halve the time by a ship fit much cheaper. Its dps is also so very low that I don't think the removal of the one light drone was necessary, I have lost to buffer fit ships simply because I could not kill them before I ran out of cap even though they where out of cap too
perhaps the module tiercide could help with this .. by having a longer range role meta and perhaps it OH bonus would be range also.. Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... module tiercide FTW role based instead of tiers please. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
700
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 15:45:00 -
[1575] - Quote
Altrue wrote:CCP Rise wrote: We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Its not entierly related, but I feel like there are two ways of considering drones for the game balance team.
- On one side, ships with drone bays have a precisely crafted drone bay with precise volumes (see my quote above to illustrate how the drone bay was 10m3 - an odd number already- to 5m3 -even odder-). So on this side things looks cool and balanced. Yes its odd to see a ship with less than five drones, but on the other hand this one or two extra drone make a noticeable impact.
- On the other side, you have ships (to quote a few : Moa, Garmur, Naga... even Eagle when compared to other HACs), with ZERO drone bay. Its straight, definitive... and bad?
Would these ships be so unbalanced with, say, 10/15m3 of brandwidth? Especially when other ships in their very same class have double or triple the amount of brandwidth without even being drone boats. I'd love to see more small drone bays on ships. Especially now that the drone gameplay and the choice it implies in terms of drone race, is getting better.
Any thoughts on that?
there's also the issue that not all slots are equal. +1 midslot on a frigate is absolutely huge, while +1 utility high (assuming you don't have crazy neut bonuses) is no big deal. |
RTSAvalanche
The Imperial Fedaykin Amarrian Commandos
37
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Posted - 2014.05.20 19:07:00 -
[1576] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think.
Being able to control range is the one thing that the Cruor has going for it (-90% web)... and now you plan to get rid of its best attribute!? (web range bonus = hyena... donotwant for cruor) |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
702
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 19:25:00 -
[1577] - Quote
RTSAvalanche wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. Being able to control range is the one thing that the Cruor has going for it (-90% web)... and now you plan to get rid of its best attribute!? (web range bonus = hyena... donotwant for cruor)
you also can control range by capping out your target |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
365
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 19:43:00 -
[1578] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. thank you so much for listening. these improvements are really needed. now i have a few more suggestions.
Drones on ships just arnt they answer to everything, even if you take off the 1 drone and bump up the role damage bonus to 150% it still wont even do half the dps a daredevil does, or the new worm. and i know more people would rather have that extra turret dps than having a drone that provides only an extra 25% dps to the cruor that can be destroyed. (25% damage increase on the cruor with 1 drone, think about that)
the same kind of goes for the ashimmu, blood has just to much to do. neut/nos the target, do dps, gotta active tank (ashimmu only now, maybe the new cruor) put drones one the target, chase down targets with your web and hope you have enough cap to run your tank. playing around in EFT and sinking 800 mil into the new ashimmu it still only had mediocre dps, tank, (huge speed buff thank you) that most other pirate cruiser get by fitting a t2 tank. I know this is for the cruiser thread but you will see it one time or another no point in wasting posts.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
211
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Posted - 2014.05.20 19:53:00 -
[1579] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. I think just drop the webbing thing and drop the midslots down to 2, give it tank bonus and more lows. that makes a much more generally usable ship. 3 lows and no tank bonus is extremely limiting. add the ridiculously powerful web bonus, and you're primary forever in all frig gangs ever. less 'glass cannon', more versatile. I think lasers and neuts/nos is enough flavour for one line of ships, they don't need the web thing as well.
Yeah, prop mod and web makes so much sense. It's not like anybody would ever want to solo in a pirate frigate.
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TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
702
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Posted - 2014.05.20 20:05:00 -
[1580] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. I think just drop the webbing thing and drop the midslots down to 2, give it tank bonus and more lows. that makes a much more generally usable ship. 3 lows and no tank bonus is extremely limiting. add the ridiculously powerful web bonus, and you're primary forever in all frig gangs ever. less 'glass cannon', more versatile. I think lasers and neuts/nos is enough flavour for one line of ships, they don't need the web thing as well. Yeah, prop mod and web makes so much sense. It's not like anybody would ever want to solo in a pirate frigate.
are you being terrible again |
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Draco Knight
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:10:00 -
[1581] - Quote
CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think.
Noone but you, is forcing the cruor to compete with the sentinel.
You changed how nos works(old nos) on BR ships, you also buffed nos amount. You/I want to fit nos, but it is useless, when we dont live to apply it. Giving the ship a nos range bonus only, would make us able to at least put pressure on targets cap within web and point range.
The additional low and pg/cpu changes are nice, but just scrap the drone bay altogether and add nos range.
I do not wish to/want to fit neuts on my cruor!!! I do that on my sentinel and as it stands even after this latest "buff", the sentinel is still waaay better in every way, since it caps out any frigate within 30km in 2 cycles and have TD for bigger targets. Cruor remains pointless.
I dream of a nos range bonus too for the ashimmu. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
702
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:17:00 -
[1582] - Quote
Draco Knight wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. Noone but you, is forcing the cruor to compete with the sentinel. You changed how nos works(old nos) on BR ships, you also buffed nos amount. You/I want to fit nos, but it is useless, when we dont live to apply it. Giving the ship a nos range bonus only, would make us able to at least put pressure on targets cap within web and point range. The additional low and pg/cpu changes are nice, but just scrap the drone bay altogether and add nos range. I do not wish to/want to fit neuts on my cruor!!! I do that on my sentinel and as it stands even after this latest "buff", the sentinel is still waaay better in every way, since it caps out any frigate within 30km in 2 cycles and have TD for bigger targets. Cruor remains pointless. I dream of a nos range bonus too for the ashimmu.
could nerf sentinel instead |
Draco Knight
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
3
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 20:22:00 -
[1583] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote: could nerf sentinel instead
Nice bait, not taking it... |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
211
|
Posted - 2014.05.20 21:07:00 -
[1584] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:Templar Dane wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:CCP Rise wrote:Hey guys
Getting caught up on some feedback here finally and working on the Cruor a bit as a result.
What I'd really like to do is get the Cruor into a place where it can keep the Blood bonus layout and still be powerful enough to see battle. The request that's been made several times for an extra low makes a lot of sense but I really didn't think it could afford to give up a high (1 turret? only 1 utility high?) or a mid (web bonus) so I was a bit stuck and then I realized there's no reason it can't have 11 slots, so that's what I'm going to do.
We're also going to up the base PG from 50 to 57 and the base CPU from 140 to 150. Finally, to pay a little back for these improvements we're taking one drone away (from 10m3 to 5m3).
Hopefully all in all this gives enough flexibility in fitting to let you take advantage of the slightly divergent bonuses and that lets us keep the faction line in tact and leave the Cruor as a very unique ship in the frigate class rather than forcing it to compete directly with the Sentinel.
Let me know what you think. I think just drop the webbing thing and drop the midslots down to 2, give it tank bonus and more lows. that makes a much more generally usable ship. 3 lows and no tank bonus is extremely limiting. add the ridiculously powerful web bonus, and you're primary forever in all frig gangs ever. less 'glass cannon', more versatile. I think lasers and neuts/nos is enough flavour for one line of ships, they don't need the web thing as well. Yeah, prop mod and web makes so much sense. It's not like anybody would ever want to solo in a pirate frigate. are you being terrible again
Yes well it's not like it has 500 dps and can get away with not fitting a point.
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W0lf Crendraven
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
245
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 00:03:00 -
[1585] - Quote
Make up some rp **** for the cruor so it can get a double range bonus for its guns (is not in line, but the bhaal wasnt either for years), making it a lower dps and slower slicer with a web range bonus and powerfull anti tackle neuts (beef its cap up so it can actually run mwd/point/guns/web for a bit).
Not ideal, but makes it usefull. There just isnt anything you can do about the cruor, it is crap design wise since the blood raider stuff really doesnt fit frigates at all.
Or give it a neut and gun range bonus, making it a weaker malice( lowering the pay to win aspect of the at). |
Flyinghotpocket
Amarrian Vengeance Team Amarrica
365
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 00:59:00 -
[1586] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Make up some rp **** for the cruor so it can get a double range bonus for its guns (is not in line, but the bhaal wasnt either for years), making it a lower dps and slower slicer with a web range bonus and powerfull anti tackle neuts (beef its cap up so it can actually run mwd/point/guns/web for a bit).
Not ideal, but makes it usefull. There just isnt anything you can do about the cruor, it is crap design wise since the blood raider stuff really doesnt fit frigates at all.
Or give it a neut and gun range bonus, making it a weaker malice( lowering the pay to win aspect of the at). ccp's trend as of recent years is to nerf all amarr dps and give them longer range. which is stupid. the cruor does not need that amarr trait. neut range is the bonus they should go with.
amarr used to be masters of dps and range, now they are range that tickles you. |
Aliventi
Southern Cross Empire Flying Dangerous
705
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 03:22:00 -
[1587] - Quote
Any chance pirate hulls can get the bump up to 400 calibration Navy ships got? Join [FIGL] Flying Dangerous Today! |
Crazy KSK
Tsunami Cartel Cascade Imminent
89
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 05:09:00 -
[1588] - Quote
W0lf Crendraven wrote:Make up some rp **** for the cruor so it can get a double range bonus for its guns (is not in line, but the bhaal wasnt either for years), making it a lower dps and slower slicer with a web range bonus and powerfull anti tackle neuts (beef its cap up so it can actually run mwd/point/guns/web for a bit).
Not ideal, but makes it usefull. There just isnt anything you can do about the cruor, it is crap design wise since the blood raider stuff really doesnt fit frigates at all.
Or give it a neut and gun range bonus, making it a weaker malice( lowering the pay to win aspect of the at).
this is what I wanted the cruor to be initially but people said it would be op *shrug*
@Rise: since you are so obsessed to keep the cruors bonuses in line with the other blood raider ships how come the dramiel is allowed to keep its bonuses ? cause it works? no that can't be it the 90% web on the cruor worked better.
Quote CCP Fozzie: ... The days of balance and forget are over.
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Dun'Gal
Myriad Contractors Inc.
107
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 07:43:00 -
[1589] - Quote
Well better late than never, something had to give on the Cruor, and while I'm not completely satisfied with the change, I guess beggars can't be choosers (it's better than what was initially proposed.) At least everyone going blue in the face trying to get it looked at again, weren't doing it for nothing. |
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
2143
|
Posted - 2014.05.21 09:00:00 -
[1590] - Quote
Does this mean you're giving up on locking yourself into arbitrary slot numbers? Because that would be great.
Could you now go and give the punisher this? Because it effectively has one slot less than other t1 frigates.. Utility highs are worth about 1/3rd of a normal slot on a frigate.
(Just want to close though by saying I CAN FLY MY CRUOR IN AN UNIRONIC WAY NOW! =D )
You don't often get me being happy about something, well done >_> BYDI recruitment closed-ish |
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