Virtually no tank? lol. It can fit very well an extender and resists to allow the scimitars to keep it easily alive.

No other hac have EVEN CLOSE to the same tank while able to hit at 80 km with that level of damage.

No sosrry they are not the TRULY fastest. EFT warriros might think so, but in REAL game, where acceleration matters, minmatar shps are trashed. What that means? THat before they can reach their final superior speed a gallente boat will outaccelerate them and tackle them.

Minmatar need to go back to their roots. Lose a bit of EHP and lose a bit of mass (or gain agility)

You just made my point. It cant tackle anything. Fitting a bunch of drone damage amps and tracking mods deals a lot of damage, but targets larger than dessies can just warp away without taking any real damage. As far as schimitars go, I was speaking of only solo Ishtars. If we're talking t2 logi and hacs thats hard to kill. T2 shields resists.....even on a armor hac are quite high. Add in a fleet in general..........using similar ships with similar capabilities all sniping....same applies to t2 rails and beam lasers(<---which ive never seen used) Its not invincible though or op. Armor hacs with shield logi will die in close range. Lets not forget the old vexor navy issue either.

However this was discussed in great depth a long time ago. Before the balance pass begun.

Speed and accelleration are too powerful to have both. I personnally wanted Minmatar to be the most agile and retain acceleration and have Gallente have the fastest straight line speed. However it went the other way but it is balanced.

Speed OR Acceleration. You can't have both.

...Minmatar are among the worst kite ships due to their high mass and bad agility.

News at 11.. NO ONE TACKLES when fleets have over 100 people!!!

Speed is USeless without acceleration. Just test the following. EAGLE.. yes eagle with mwd slow boating while a vagabon orbit it. A vaga will want to orbit roughly around 16 km to avoid web while at same time do some real damage. The eagle can Tackle the vgabond AT WILL!!! Just because vagabond alck of agility makes it unable to turn ad gain speed fast enough . The eagle will TAKE on the vaga and tackle it EASILY.


Speed without acceleration is ok when you have a good damage projection. When trackign enhancers were nerfged.. that was gone.


We as a corp are quite renowed for flying 99% kite ships. And guess what.. we use almost only caldari and gallente ships.... NEver minamtar. Why? Because minmatar are among the worst kite ships due to their high mass and bad agility.

The best kite boats in game are the Orthrus and The TENGU!!!


My Kiting focused clone has a NOMAD set, not a snake set.. know why? Becuase agility is Far far more relevant in real fight conditions. Your max speed is irrelevant if you take so long to get there that you are tackled before you reach 30% of it...


Minmatar should have OK mass and agility. NO need to have the best. But beign HORRIBLE is not acceptable and cancels completely their speed advantage. MInmatar should have reasonable agility and as compensation LESS EHP!!!!!

You just made my point. It cant tackle anything. Fitting a bunch of drone damage amps and tracking mods deals a lot of damage, but targets larger than dessies can just warp away without taking any real damage. As far as schimitars go, I was speaking of only solo Ishtars. If we're talking t2 logi and hacs thats hard to kill. T2 shields resists.....even on a armor hac are quite high. Add in a fleet in general..........using similar ships with similar capabilities all sniping....same applies to t2 rails and beam lasers(<---which ive never seen used) Its not invincible though or op. Armor hacs with shield logi will die in close range. Lets not forget the old vexor navy issue either.

i expected the ishtar change ... will the domi change aswell then?

Eagle
- i did say in the HAC page it was far too slow .. would be nice at 200 along with some drones .. it has a dronebay now on the model and would allow for blaster variants then instead of only rails ...

Vagabond
- please nerf its speed ... resilience is the theme of HACS remember so why is it just as quick as a stabber and cynabal???

how would you feel about an 8/4/7 Tempest?

So the over the top bonus that some races get to specific damage types causes weird issues, especially at the meta level. Such as any laser orientated fleet concept will be instantly vulnerable to facing T2 Minnie, similar things happen to rail and blaster ships vs caladari.

Given that the Ishtar is overpowered in (at least) the current meta.
And given that the primary complaint is its use of "drop & run" sentries...

What if its drone damage bonus was modified to Light, Medium and Heavy drones, leaving sentries usable but unbonused.

The Ishtar existed before Sentries were introduced, it still ran the "dump and run" shield fits (with heavies) but armour brawlers were also seen...


I will say that I've had Ishtars since about 2006 though I've never been rich enough to use them in PvP.

damage bonuses to specific sized drones is the best way forward i feel

Ishtar
Gal bonuses
10% damage/HP to light and medium drones, 7.5% damage/HP to heavy drones, 5% damage to sentry drones
7.5% heavy drone max velocity and tracking speed

HAC bonuses
5% tracking/optimal range to sentry drones
5km to drone operation range

dronebay 125/325

Navy Vexor
Gal bonuses
10% damage/HP to light and medium drones, 7.5% damage/HP to heavy drones, 5% damage to sentry drones
5% drone max velocity and tracking speed

You are really being biased on how the ishtards's are used . Solo combat does not usually mean that an ishtar has to come n tackle u . True u cud warp off like u say .. but if i see a solo ishtar fit with triple exentender triple DDA .. there is absolutely no ship that can go after it in the same class . So is the case with most ishtar running sites .. all u have to do is kite to 100 km from the accelgate land and sit .. by the time what ever tackle lands .. u get hit by warderns .. at 70 and gardes at 50 and when ur land ur tackle on it .. ur have already taken a lot of damage from the ishtar and u realized u have to chew thru some 14 k of passive shields . The ishtar uses a weapon system that consumes no pwr grid . Wepons cannot b neutralized, tracking disrupted ( lol really not an option even tho u can ) or damped. It has 5 med slots ( unlike ur beloved VNI) and it can fit 3 exentenders 1 prop and 1 propjamming module. It lands for perfect at 70km dealing 550 dps with warderns . Could u please tell me any other Faction cruiser or HAC capable of doing so .

News at 11.. NO ONE TACKLES when fleets have over 100 people!!!

Where? in null sec bubble? Because unless you can alpha someone off field they need to be held long enough to kill them. Hero tackles always dies first. Then again with 100 people shooting at one target that guy is dead regardless of weapons system, sniping or brawling.

Where? in null sec bubble? Because unless you can alpha someone off field they need to be held long enough to kill them. Hero tackles always dies first. Then again with 100 people shooting at one target that guy is dead regardless of weapons system, sniping or brawling.

The WHOLE complain about ishtar is exactly on that large fights. No one is complaining of ishtars in hihg sec mercenary combat that invovles 3-4 ships.

And no its not dead regardless of weapons. What other hac can kill at same range targets with so much EHP and at same time be able to sniper tackler at closer range? NO OTHER HAC CAN!

10% is not really enough for usable mediums. it should do the same medium drone dps as a gila's mediums.

errrm, people are complaining about the Ishtars abilities in small gang aswell as large scale.

The Ishtar is obscenely overpowered. I still believe that the whole issue would simply be fixed by creating small and medium sentry drones. Then reducing the Ishtars bandwidth to 50M/Bit and changing the bonuses to medium drones. The damage bonus would have to be increased a little but the projection issue (which I think is the biggest issue) would be solved.

On small scale fights I do not even see the isthar that much. And when I say small I do nto mean 50 man roaming gnags. Those are already LARGE fleets. Small scale means 3-4 people.

I see them all the time and use them all the time. Small Ishtar gangs are actually killing PvP.

Even solo Ishtars! I warp to anything in an Ishtar and they run away. Seriously. It's rediculous. Even when I'm PvE fit competing for a site with a strategic cruiser. They run away and leave me to the site.

If I'm solo myself, I will always avoid an Ishtar. That is a problem. And I'm extremely Leeroy Jenkins. I've whelped fleets just fun fun but if I see Ishtars and I know we don't have moar Ishtars than them then we don't engage.