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Nami Kumamato School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State 578	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:02:23 - [2311] - Quote Terence Bogard wrote: Nothing is set in stone and no, the world is not ending. It's not ? So you mean I bought all that canned pineapple for nothing ? Time to get diabetes then ... " And now my ship is oh so cloaked and fit - I never felt so good, I never felt so hid ! " - Ramona McCandless, Untitled
Terence Bogard Kanetrain Confederacy 0	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:02:50 - [2312] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Arrendis wrote: Dark Spite wrote: Still not said anywhere that an interceptor can fit an Entosis module But strongly implied by: 'Low fitting requirements, uses high power slot.' Well if the idea is to enable occupancy sovereignty, with active, alive, real people living there, they would of course allow the fitting of these modules to spaceships that were able to penetrate gatecamps. If they did not the entire premis fails. And you would have empty space surrounded by impenetrateable borders. Hence the interceptor hysteria. Interceptors and frigates are the tool that will deliver Sov2 Umm ,you can't fly a fleet capable of taking sov through a gate camp in the current state. Not without bashing through it anyway. You will need a sov lazor in your fleet is all, it just wont be carried by your scout/tackle.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 690	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:04:28 - [2313] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Dracvlad wrote: An interceptor will not kite with a T1 module, as it has a limited range if it wants to put the sov module or station into reinforced, so it will need to be a T2 module and at 80m a pop that is a nice drop, in fact 20m on the T1 is not bad. For a possible 80m drop its actually a good target. Part of the issue I'm having with this is that the T2 module, even if it does turn out to have ridiculous training requirements, is just such a significant step up in terms of functionality from the T1. The T2 is a 120 second cycle time, with a range that is frankly ridiculous. Compared to the 300 second cycle of the T1 module, with a tenth of the range. But the tiny cycle time is a prickly problem. It just leaves very little window open for pre-reinforcement defense. Yeah, once the thing is reinforced, bring the fleet until the 4 hr window is up and the timer goes away. But then they finish the timer, and I just login my cov ops alt to pop it again and they have to come back the following day for four hours. In exchange for a few minutes of my time per day(because, once again, I can just sit in their system on an alt on another monitor until they give me an opening), I cost their defense fleet a guaranteed four hours per day. This isn't cat and mouse. This isn't even conflict. This is pointless repetition. I thought we were going away from weaponizing boredom. The T2 module gives differing tactical options, that is why its there, its actually pretty smart, the functionality comes at a significant increased cost and I expect a lot of ships will die trying to RF. Ella's Snack bar
Terence Bogard Kanetrain Confederacy 0	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:05:35 - [2314] - Quote Nami Kumamato wrote: Terence Bogard wrote: Nothing is set in stone and no, the world is not ending. It's not ? So you mean I bought all that canned pineapple for nothing ? Time to get diabetes then ... Sorry hope you bought some canned bacon to go with it
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1571	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:07:12 - [2315] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: Well if the idea is to enable occupancy sovereignty, with active, alive, real people living there, they would of course allow the fitting of these modules to spaceships that were able to penetrate gatecamps. Why? Shouldn't an attacker have to fight through the defenders instead of bypassing them by fiat? Or are you actually making the contention that unless a single system is guarded 24/7 from interceptors and cov ops frigates, that whoever owns that system is undeserving of it? Because last I checked, this was a game, not a job. I can't think of a better way to crowd any and all small groups than to force literally constant defense fleets. I will give some serious thought as to why, you are unable to understand that in a system that is designed to ensure local occupancy and defence, why having inpenetrateable gatecamps 20 jumps out that will ensure that no one gets to the target, and removing the tools that can penetrate them, does not work to achieve those goals. I will give it deep thought, but it may take a while............. And I fear the answer will be 42 There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Papa Digger OEG The Gorgon Empire 19	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:07:30 - [2316] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Papa Digger wrote: Why you think that you will be playing only in offence every day? :) We have the numbers. Then why I see a half of galaxy not owned by CFC? :) Easy to hit, hard to hold.
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 691	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:07:44 - [2317] - Quote Lord TGR wrote: Dracvlad wrote: I do of course recognise all the other entities that like having fun, you are not the only ones, but if you come to troll and only find a TCU next to a death star who is trolling who? Will this "deathstar" really make a dent into a speedtanking interceptor? Well I have seen a fair few interceptors killed by POS guns in my time, but its possible yes. Ella's Snack bar
afkalt Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 818	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:07:45 - [2318] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: Well if the idea is to enable occupancy sovereignty, with active, alive, real people living there, they would of course allow the fitting of these modules to spaceships that were able to penetrate gatecamps. single system is guarded 4/7 Fixed that. And it's not that onerous to chase them off unless they are there in force, but that is not what is being posited.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 270	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:08:35 - [2319] - Quote Papa Digger wrote: baltec1 wrote: Papa Digger wrote: Why you think that you will be playing only in offence every day? :) We have the numbers. Then why I see a half of galaxy not owned by CFC? :) Easy to hit, hard to hold. Who's talking about holding it? You don't build an apartment building on your game preserve...
Torgeir Hekard I MYSELF AND ME 131	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:09:32 - [2320] - Quote Arrendis wrote: We didn't use bombers, for one. :) But technically you could. For the purpose of griefing you can do SB grinding ops bypassing gatecamps and denying actual fights. With current mechanics a fleet of SBs is as substitude for the idea of a fleet of trollceptors.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15383	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:09:41 - [2321] - Quote Papa Digger wrote: baltec1 wrote: Papa Digger wrote: Why you think that you will be playing only in offence every day? :) We have the numbers. Then why I see a half of galaxy not owned by CFC? :) Easy to hit, hard to hold. We have no need for even more useless space. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Terence Bogard Kanetrain Confederacy 0	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:10:24 - [2322] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Terence Bogard wrote: Arrendis wrote: But strongly implied by: 'Low fitting requirements, uses high power slot.' see CCP Fozzie wrote: I'll also probably be quickly spinning off a discussion of the module balance surrounding the Entosis Link, since that's an area where I expect we can calm some fears relatively easily. The short version is that we have all the tools of EVE's module design at our disposal to ensure that no specific tactics get out of hand. So if problems show up in discussion and playtesting we're happy to let players try to find a counter and then relatively easily step in if that counter doesn't materialize. Nothing is set in stone and no, the world is not ending. Oh, totally, but just saying that because it's never explicitly stated that the module will fit on interceptors means there's reason for someone to think it might... that's disingenuous, don't you think? I agree, but it think its more discourteous than disingenuous. He doesn't outright say it but i think it's clear that's what hes hinting at. He should have just put the fears to bed now instead of waiting. A simple "links wont fit on inties" would have been better.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 270	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:12:20 - [2323] - Quote Terence Bogard wrote: I agree, but it think its more discourteous than disingenuous. He doesn't outright say it but i think it's clear that's what hes hinting at. He should have just put the fears to bed now instead of waiting. A simple "links wont fit on inties" would have been better. He probably feels that if he says that, he's ensuring that someone, somehow, will wait until they go in, and then post a 3b isk fitting that requires extensive high-end implants, but manages to fit one. Just to say 'FOZZIE LIED'.
Blast Radius1 30plus Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere 2	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:12:33 - [2324] - Quote Terence Bogard wrote: Arrendis wrote: Terence Bogard wrote: Arrendis wrote: But strongly implied by: 'Low fitting requirements, uses high power slot.' see CCP Fozzie wrote: I'll also probably be quickly spinning off a discussion of the module balance surrounding the Entosis Link, since that's an area where I expect we can calm some fears relatively easily. The short version is that we have all the tools of EVE's module design at our disposal to ensure that no specific tactics get out of hand. So if problems show up in discussion and playtesting we're happy to let players try to find a counter and then relatively easily step in if that counter doesn't materialize. Nothing is set in stone and no, the world is not ending. Oh, totally, but just saying that because it's never explicitly stated that the module will fit on interceptors means there's reason for someone to think it might... that's disingenuous, don't you think? I agree, but it think its more discourteous than disingenuous. He doesn't outright say it but i think it's clear that's what hes hinting at. He should have just put the fears to bed now instead of waiting. A simple "links wont fit on inties" would have been better. Yet, if it was attention they were seeking by not explicitly ruling it out, I would say they have op success, no?
Zappity Stay Frosty. A Band Apart. 1805	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:12:34 - [2325] - Quote Lurifax wrote: Kagura Nikon wrote: Bezdar22 wrote: lemme tell u whats gonna happen... there will be FW like fights in null sec.. no more big fights.. frig fights every where... what they dont understand ppl coe top play this game coz they heard of big fights.. thats what make story .. not small fights. small fights just look cool thats about it.. this game wil become WOW pretty soon.. thats where CCP leading us. There will still be big fights. But wars will not be a LOT of boredom waiting for failed opportunitie sof such big fights.. and then suddenly end after a single big fight. Wars will be more interestign with several smaller engagements, until someone tries to go for a very important target when Big fight WILL happen. The only difference is that the bigh fight will not be on a single grid, but spread all over the constellation. More tactical depth, more strategical opportunities. THe need of real fleet commanders, not people that just call targets. The need of a hierarchy of command because you will have several ' regiments" in a fleet that must spread Have you ever fought a sov war? You are not going to see small gangs zipping around fightting for the nodes. To be fair, you have never fought one of these sov wars either. Nobody has. The real irony is that active FW corps are probably the best adapted to this kind of fighting, with good depth in highly competent pilots. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec.
Speedkermit Damo Demonic Retribution 405	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:14:10 - [2326] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Papa Django wrote: Promiscuous Female wrote: won't take us four hours to RF the entire region, just 30 minutes Stop with the mittani trollceptor. A single ship with a link is enough to counter your ridiculous wing of trollceptor. We can dump several hundred of them on you for fun. Several thousand if someone kicks the hive. Is that the official narrative today? Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:15:28 - [2327] - Quote Dracvlad wrote: The T2 module gives differing tactical options, that is why its there, its actually pretty smart, the functionality comes at a significant increased cost and I expect a lot of ships will die trying to RF. EDIT: By the way, I do not think that the T2 version is meant for smaller ships, even though it may be used for them, I think that its a module thaht require lock so its limited to the targetting range, at least I hope that is the case. The tactical options can come from the 1000% buff to range. The speed buff is simply not necessary. 5 minutes might, in and of itself, be too fast. The only saving grace is that once you activate it, you are stuck on grid for that whole time. Although the question needs to be answered as to whether flying out of range will immediately halt the module (and thus give you back warp ability), or whether the cycle time will still complete but unsuccessfully(thus preventing warp for the entire cycle time). "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Papa Digger OEG The Gorgon Empire 19	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:15:50 - [2328] - Quote Worrff wrote: You know that Goons have a large around the clock presence, yes ? I never thought about it..
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:19:57 - [2329] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: But until people get exhausted form trying fruitlessly, to remove all the tools of the new sov2 it will be hard to move on from that into productive discourse. No one is doing that, you obtuse fool. The only thing stopping productive discourse is you and your pathetic attempts to crow over something that is literally still up in the air, as per the developers themselves. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Papa Digger OEG The Gorgon Empire 19	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:21:28 - [2330] - Quote Arrendis wrote: Who's talking about holding it? You don't build an apartment building on your game preserve... What a point of grief then? You came, take station.. you leave, you lose station. :)
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1571	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:21:32 - [2331] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: I will give some serious thought as to why, you are unable to understand that in a system that is designed to ensure local occupancy and defence, why having inpenetrateable gatecamps 20 jumps out that will ensure that no one gets to the target, and removing the tools that can penetrate them, does not work to achieve those goals. I'm not sure why you think that guarding the external borders of a contiguous area of sovereignty should be a 100% unviable option. Oh, that's right. Your bias is why you think that. Possibly because that is what we have today, large swathes of renters and unoccupied space. It would take a particular brand of denial, not to understand that, this is contrary to the entire concept of Sov2. If you still fail to understand this, I could puzzle over why, until the heat death of the universe and still not reach an understanding why. Unless I consider the obvious. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Terence Bogard Kanetrain Confederacy 0	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:21:54 - [2332] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Logically, they are waiting to see if people actually understand what is being presented here, in depth, rather than feed hysteria. Eventually, people will realise, that the new sovereignty landscape is mobile, to encourage active players in coalitions of many new smaller time zone based alliances, created either from new, or smaller from the current big alliances, to defend their home constellation, and NOT claim ownership, of areas they are neither wishing to live in or defend. But of course people will resist this, because it is different. There are no doubt ways it can be more effective, and enjoyable. But until people get exhausted form trying fruitlessly, to remove all the tools of the new sov2 it will be hard to move on from that into productive discourse. Very true, but they could be waiting a long time. This will be a threadnaught the likes of which we have never seen.
Lord TGR Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 203	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:23:31 - [2333] - Quote Papa Digger wrote: Arrendis wrote: Who's talking about holding it? You don't build an apartment building on your game preserve... What a point of grief then? You came, take station.. you leave, you lose station. :) And they lose the ihub and have to ship one in and re-anchor it and spend up to 100 days rebuilding their sov index etc.
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:24:04 - [2334] - Quote epicurus ataraxia wrote: Possibly because that is what we have today, large swathes of renters and unoccupied space. It would take a particular brand of denial, not to understand that, this is contrary to the entire concept of Sov2. It takes a particular kind of intellectual dishonesty to jump to the wild conclusion that defense is intended to be impossible in this rebalance. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.
Arrendis GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 270	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:24:28 - [2335] - Quote Papa Digger wrote: What a point of grief then? You came, take station.. you leave, you lose station. :) Burning down ihubs to degrade the money you can make in that space. Freeporting the station so SOLAR can get its crap out from where PL stuffed it. maybe blowing up TCUs so the sov drops for things like SCSAAs and jump bridges. Or just to annoy people. There's always reasons to grief. ;)
Dark Spite The Real OC ROC. 5	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:24:57 - [2336] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Dracvlad wrote: The T2 module gives differing tactical options, that is why its there, its actually pretty smart, the functionality comes at a significant increased cost and I expect a lot of ships will die trying to RF. EDIT: By the way, I do not think that the T2 version is meant for smaller ships, even though it may be used for them, I think that its a module thaht require lock so its limited to the targetting range, at least I hope that is the case. The tactical options can come from the 1000% buff to range. The speed buff is simply not necessary. 5 minutes might, in and of itself, be too fast. The only saving grace is that once you activate it, you are stuck on grid for that whole time. Although the question needs to be answered as to whether flying out of range will immediately halt the module (and thus give you back warp ability), or whether the cycle time will still complete but unsuccessfully(thus preventing warp for the entire cycle time). Its stated that target lock is required for the module to work, so its reasonable to assume that going out of locking range will stop the cycle. It then has to be re-initiated. But given how little detail is provided in the blog its difficult to be definite on this. Deathstar POS's with a gunner and web/scram will kill an interceptor. The reason not so many die to POS is lock time of modules, but a fast aligning ship on grid is a totally different matter.
baltec1 Bat Country Goonswarm Federation 15383	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:25:11 - [2337] - Quote Papa Digger wrote: Arrendis wrote: Who's talking about holding it? You don't build an apartment building on your game preserve... What a point of grief then? You came, take station.. you leave, you lose station. :) We freeport it, destroy their ratting and mining and just make life hell for them. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship
Dracvlad Taishi Combine Second-Dawn 691	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:26:50 - [2338] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Dracvlad wrote: The T2 module gives differing tactical options, that is why its there, its actually pretty smart, the functionality comes at a significant increased cost and I expect a lot of ships will die trying to RF. EDIT: By the way, I do not think that the T2 version is meant for smaller ships, even though it may be used for them, I think that its a module thaht require lock so its limited to the targetting range, at least I hope that is the case. The tactical options can come from the 1000% buff to range. The speed buff is simply not necessary. 5 minutes might, in and of itself, be too fast. The only saving grace is that once you activate it, you are stuck on grid for that whole time. Although the question needs to be answered as to whether flying out of range will immediately halt the module (and thus give you back warp ability), or whether the cycle time will still complete but unsuccessfully(thus preventing warp for the entire cycle time). I think that speed buff for T2 was linked to marauders in Bastion mode. I think you should have to stay in the ships locking range, or on grid so flying out of range should halt the module and enable you to warp. But I don't care either way, though it would placate people a bit if they could not warp. My main question is if the attacks end does the 10 minutes start again? I hope that is the case. Ella's Snack bar
epicurus ataraxia Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude 1572	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:26:51 - [2339] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: epicurus ataraxia wrote: Possibly because that is what we have today, large swathes of renters and unoccupied space. It would take a particular brand of denial, not to understand that, this is contrary to the entire concept of Sov2. It takes a particular kind of intellectual dishonesty to jump to the wild conclusion that defense is intended to be impossible in this rebalance. Defence is perfectly feasable if you live in system, however if you wish to hold large unoccupied areas of space, and intend to defend it by helicoptering in support from elsewhere, far from the attack, within your closed borders? Well then, I guess you are pretty much screwed. But of course when they come out of reinforcement, then you can use all the tactics you are familiar with. But so can the opposition. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE
Kaarous Aldurald Glorious Revolutionary Armed Forces of Highsec CODE. 11991	Posted - 2015.03.05 12:27:51 - [2340] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Papa Digger wrote: Arrendis wrote: Who's talking about holding it? You don't build an apartment building on your game preserve... What a point of grief then? You came, take station.. you leave, you lose station. :) We freeport it. I can't help but think that creating a deliberate DMZ of unclaimed systems around space that you actually want to own would be an unintended consequence of how this rebalance is currently planned. If anyone comes to take it to stage into your actual space, you just harass them with timers until they give up in frustration. It only takes two minutes a day to reinforce anything, after all. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws." One of ours, ten of theirs.

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