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t20 and Hellmar speak on recent events

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
John Tasker Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:15:00 - [1711] Originally by: All Edited by: All on 10/02/2007 21:05:41 Edited by: All on 10/02/2007 21:03:15 Please do not discuss moderation on the forums.Email [email protected] Thanks.Laurelin did the moment i got the email and sent a reply asking for explanation still waiting for an explanation... and i`m still waiting for an explanation...
Novina Agrari	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:16:00 - [1712] Originally by: Lady Galadriel Pete Rose ... who is he.. cant find that player in game.. I'm not sure, CCP won't tell us who t20's newest character is. ;)
Mariko San Saints Surrounded	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:20:00 - [1713] Originally by: Audri Fisher One more note. BoB just had a sizable chunk of there senior leadership forcibly removed. Kick em when they are down I say! Where did you hear this?
Erin Athena	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:21:00 - [1714] Right I read about 12 pages but i'm a bit impatient to say my piece now: 1: The rule is if a dev breaks the rules, they are gone. This dev has confessed to breaking the rules. 2: Writing in forums and game subscriptions are as rl as breathing or a genuine letter writen in real ink. A tree falling in the forest with no-one to hear it might very well fail to make a sound but there are people who can read this, making it exist in thousands of human brains as well as on hard disks and RAM. 3: If 15k people are mildly ticked off then thats the eqivelant of how much torture? 100 people having elecrtic shocks in intimate places for 5 hours? 4:Its sad that you can't get ahead in this game. Its really impossible, this guy I hear you just can't fire him because hes too important. So when his precious corp faces the howling guns of the rest of the single server he just crashes it, then gives BOB members priority login so they decimate the logged out armadas. If you can't afford to fire him then appology or not he could do this, and when caught say sorry and you have to keep him. 5:How many people are in this BOB thing anyway? 10k? 6: This whistleblower is good, offer him a job monitoring DEVs and if you are lucky he might accept. Whatever else I remember. I want to read all the snipped things by the way, the ammount of censored on this forum makes me wonder what else is being covered up.
John Tasker Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:25:00 - [1715] 48
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:25:00 - [1716] Originally by: Audri Fisher One more note. BoB just had a sizable chunk of there senior leadership forcibly removed. Kick em when they are down I say! I'd like to hear a source on this one as well... t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Valan	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:29:00 - [1717] CCP provides a competitive game were everyone interacts. Oveur said it himself everyone PvPs even the industrialists. A Dev cheating and not only that cheating for a top alliance should be a sackable offense. It affects all of us. For those who say its only a game. Its only a game that we pay for and I for one don't expect to get rolled over by a Dev. Should be sacked even if its to preserve the integrity of CCP. Such a public **** up would automatically mean the sack in any other organisation. THE only reason the Devs didn't fire him is because they thought we wouldn't find out and hence didn't have to. They covered it up and thought it had gone away. The deleted accounts were just a clean up and damage limitation exercise. Now its out its more smoke and mirrors to pretend they dealt with effectiveley ages ago. They're doing this becasue its all across the web an mmorpg game boards and now they see why they should've dealt with it properly in the first place. They didn't tell the truth then there will be multitudes of things they haven't disclosed and we can't trust them to deal with it. This is the fourth example I can think of but if I mention it snip by the usual suspect I might add. /start sig I love old characters that post 'I've beeen playing the game three years' when I know their account has been sold on. /end sig
Myz Toyou the Organ Grinder and Company Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:30:00 - [1718] Originally by: Dred'Pirate Jesus Ok I see the paranoia train is on the tracks again and its only getting more interesting.. Guess I'll just kick back and observe until this is all forgotten in short order.. As things like this always are.. But plz continue posting your opinions though so I can get a larger profile sample.. Enjoy the Conspiracy of the Month and keep a roll of reynolds wrap handy.. \o DBPreacher ? Dianabolic ? Molle ? Fire59 ? witch one you are, poor little alt CYVOK > All you station jockies better get out their and start killing these idiots
Ishmael Hansen No Quarter. C0VEN	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:32:00 - [1719] Originally by: Eclipsen413 this is silly, if i stacked a box wrong at my store should i be fired? If you worked in the Bank of England and you gave your friends the stuff you produce for free, while everyone else in the universe has to work for it, hmm, I'd say you would be fired.
Mag's Rampage Eternal Ka-Tet	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:32:00 - [1720] I personally know of 3 players leaving the game because of this. I class these people as friends and it makes me rather sad. It's a shame you let it get to this stage, it should have been sorted way before now. I and I guess many others, do not believe what we have been told, to be all of the truth and all of the facts. Trust is hard to gain, easy to lose.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. INVICTUS.	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:35:00 - [1721] Originally by: maximus babbarus Originally by: Malachon Draco Originally by: maximus babbarus snip Umm, I know I don't win prizes for being the most rational poster on here , but this is taking it too far dude. Don't bring that into it. Jokes about fighting the Russians in the Winter, sure, but not this. Stay clear of that please. hang on im in no way comparing a few bpos acount sharing h4xoring to world war 2 that would be ludicres what i am comapering is the line of defence taken is the same in both cercumstances by the lower lvl "minions" and that as any rpg /mmoprg models its self on rl and that the rl stance is "ignorance is in no way an exscuse" by acepting one you acept the other and by denouncing one you denounce the other and the intent behind it. and imho ignorance to a crime thats happened at your feet isnt an exscuse Not suggesting you do, but I'd stay as far away as possible from any comparisons to that darkest piece of history. -------------- In completely unrelated news, after careful research, the Guiding Hand Social Club concludes that no member of the Guiding Hand Social Club is guilty of corptheft.
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:36:00 - [1722] Quote: Originally by: Various PlayersWhy were <players> from <corporation/alliance> not banned for account sharing due to being part of a cynonet network if t20 was managing the network of an alliance? This is a question I had to do some research to get. Until reading the community response thread, I had not heard of a cynonet network and had to ask around to get some answers. As for the question itself... It is my understanding that cynonet networks are a relatively new development in alliance warfare, primarily due to the recent commonness of dreads and carriers. I have been informed that t20's characters were removed from play before long before cynonetworks became common place and he was not aware of alleged account sharing. If anyone has evidence of account sharing in a cynonet network on the part of players, submit a petition. The GM team will investigage the evidence in the petition and take appropriate action. If you had any credibility left, there it went. /me waves goodbye to it. The head of the capital fleet of a large corporation was unaware of the existence of cynonets within his corporation and the account sharing that can accompany them? Are you alleging that he must simply not have been reading the forums of the corporation of which he was a director or am I miscontruing the only possible interpretation of what you just said? Was t20 playing with a blindfold on and earplugs in? That is an outright, bald-faced, 100% lie. You would have been better of chanelling GM reimbursement petition replies and saying "out logs show no evidence of anything, sorry." If you want to gain back trust start telling the truth, start being transparent. Offering up one dev for slaughter will not defuse this situation. You cannot regain what you once had by deflecting community concerns and offering up vacuous excuses and meaningless apologies. The Enemy's Gate is Down
Benny Hill Caldari Deceased Inc	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:44:00 - [1723] Edited by: Benny Hill on 10/02/2007 21:42:27 CCP was trying to fix the game for BoB, and more than likely are still doing so. They knew about this last year and didn't do a thing concerning the bpo's until a forum hacker outed CCP's complicity with fixing the game. And they did this for money. CCP wants a large alliance to succeed so the rest of Eve fights them, so CCP can advertise the Star Wars story-line for more subscriptions.
Murmeltante	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:46:00 - [1724] Its really sad. I feel a little bit like: "I pay to get cheated!". Why do i run my R&D agent? Can i get some T2 BPOs for a half year? I will only take a look on them and make no profit The information we got is nothing. The actions which has been taken only ensures in my eyes that such cases does not get public in the future.
John Tasker Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:46:00 - [1725] Originally by: Baun stuff lolzz
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:48:00 - [1726] I'm sorry, i fail to comprehend how a Dev abusing the Tech2 Lottery (Which has been whined over enough on these forums as being rigged) gets away with what appears 'a disciplinary action'. As much as i like(d) T20, him being my favorite Dev and all, you have to be consistant. You cannot claim to have the strictest possible measures against Devs, GMs and ISD and not fire him. If i remember correctly, a GM or ISD member spawned himself a faction fitted Raven and lost his job for it. A Dev magically gets himself 8(!) T2 BPOs and is allowed to stay? Stay out of my sig, it's not funny. Thanks for proving my point.
Benny Hill Caldari Deceased Inc	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:48:00 - [1727] Originally by: Mag's I personally know of 3 players leaving the game because of this. I class these people as friends and it makes me rather sad. Just wait until the other space MMORPG's that are in the works go online. If CCP will fix the game, but not fix the lag, there will be mass movement to those games.
Azerrad InExile	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:49:00 - [1728] Since kieron is back answering questions: Why weren't the T2 BPOs in question removed from the game when they were discovered?? t20: "So Let us play and enjoy the game you and I both love on the same level."
Al Franken The Liberal Media	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:50:00 - [1729] from Kieron: Quote: I have been informed that t20's characters were removed from play before long before cynonetworks became common place and he was not aware of alleged account sharing. suuuurreee Because the concept of a cynonet was just absolutely foreign to everyone back in the dark dark days of June '06. Come on Kieron, you can't possibly believe a word of what you are typing. Every alliance worth its salt knew and had maintained a cynonet back then. To say that carriers and dreads only just became common, as opposed to say all of 7 months ago, is completely laughable. It's obvious to everyone that a CCP employee was fully aware of violations of the EULA in the corp/alliance that he was in, but chose to do nothing about it. But yeah, keep trying to cover that up too.
Dagrin RDM Caldari The Knights of the New Republic Forces of Freedom	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:52:00 - [1730] Originally by: Azerrad InExile Since kieron is back answering questions: Why weren't the T2 BPOs in question removed from the game when they were discovered?? Agreed, this is an extremely important question! Originally by: Seroquel it takes a while to get use to the people in eve. they are a little too... friendly. sorta like the texas chainsaw massacre country folk friendly.
Baun 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:54:00 - [1731] Originally by: Dagrin RDM Originally by: Azerrad InExile Since kieron is back answering questions: Why weren't the T2 BPOs in question removed from the game when they were discovered?? Agreed, this is an extremely important question! There are two possible exaplanations: 1) CCP did not know that he actually made BPOs for himself- This seems to have been admitted as false by kieron and Hel. 2) CCP did not care and still do not care- This seems inescapable. They took action only six months after the fact because they were forced to. Accompanying this action they banned the player that forced them to reveal the information and have started lying to us again hoping that we will be sated by an un-fired dev whose punishment is not even known to us. The Enemy's Gate is Down
John Tasker Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:55:00 - [1732] Originally by: Dagrin RDM Originally by: Azerrad InExile Since kieron is back answering questions: Why weren't the T2 BPOs in question removed from the game when they were discovered?? Agreed, this is an extremely important question! that`s an direct question, more luck in the lottery(no not the t2 lottery ;)) then getting a real reply wich makes sense
Fulber	Posted - 2007.02.10 21:56:00 - [1733] As an aside to the postcount torrent that is this thread, I'd just like to tip my hat to Kieron for actually tracking it, and supplying answers. I won't touch upon the accuracy or validity of said answers however. Thank you Kieron for putting up with this monster.
Phil Sagan Direct Intent The Makhai	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:00:00 - [1734] kugutsumen has posted a lot more stuff from the BoB board he hacked, and it's not just the BPO thing that's a big problem, in my opinion. One of the things he uncovered is that the BoB directors have access to a lot of BoB members' accounts, for the purposes of accessing cyno alts. If this is true, CCP are beyond hypocrites for banning other people for account sharing, but looking the other way when it's done in BoB. Not that I think account sharing is that big of a deal, but blatant favoratism is.
Susitna	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:02:00 - [1735] A couple simple questions. Why are CCP employees allowed to hold leadership positions in player corps and alliances? After this incident will CCP employees still be allowed to hold leadership positions in the future?
Enaria Ferenic	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:04:00 - [1736] Sorry but i don't have the patience to read the whole tread so i'm probably repeating stuff thats allready been said . Firstly, even as a n00b i allways thought there was something just a bit incestuous in the relationship between CCP and BoB....whatching EVE TV's coverage of the Alliance tourney was a bit sickening, the 'official' EVE community thre was allways fawning over BoB and how great they were etc,etc,etc....... Secondly, even though its just one instance of outright fraud, how many unreported and undiscoverd instances have there been in the past? In RL police know that they only catch 1 in every 10 drug shipments, so we can safey asssume that BoB has probably gotten allot more help. Thridly, CCP's 1st reaction was to cover thing sup and turn on the whistleblower....straight away thats a sign of hubris and arrogance...EVE is OUR game....to hell with the EULA....with out the players EVE and CCP would be nothing. CCP's reactions were to spit on the player base, and them offer up some half assed excuses. And finally, there is the question of BoB themselves....their reputaion as this Uber Alliance of EVE's best PvP'ers is now utterly ruined...AFAIK BoB has no reputation left....all their achivements and everything they will do in the future will be forever tainted by this...no matter what they do we will allwaya wonder did they get where they are by cheating? This Char is an Alt.
Elve Sorrow Amarr Shinra Lotka Volterra	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:11:00 - [1737] Hellmar's blog states you have begun forming some sort of institution to closely watch every Dev etc for cheating or otherwise unfair use of their knowledge/equipment. EVE will be 4 years old this year, and the Blog states there have been multiple of these situations, why wasnt this done MUCH MUCH earlier? Stay out of my sig, it's not funny. Thanks for proving my point.
Egne Ver Caldari The Reckoning	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:11:00 - [1738] So if this is the only instance that you uncovered then it will be a complete surprise when the other 5 names are listed right? What about all the ôeventsö that just happen to coincide with ôroad tripsö? What about the rampant sharing of accounts brought to light from within RKK that violates the EULA? Will rules change to allow this sharing to again benefit BOB? Does ôremoved from the gameö mean the same thing as ôname and portrait changedö? Oh and everything that BoB has ôaccomplishedö is suspect, so is everything they might ôaccomplishö. The news is out, several gaming magazines and sites have the story and are running it. Spin control will accomplish nothing at this point, its time for a house cleaning before its too late. This was known to be happening and more is coming out soon.
Sigmorhair Gallente Eisenmetal	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:12:00 - [1739] I was starting to feel a bit better about things, and had some small hope we were finally seeing an honest attempt to do the right thing from CCP. Then I saw this from Keiron: "It is my understanding that cynonet networks are a relatively new development in alliance warfare, primarily due to the recent commonness of dreads and carriers. I have been informed that t20's characters were removed from play before long before cynonetworks became common place and he was not aware of alleged account sharing." This is obviously a bold faced and outright lie. t20 is not aware of Bob account sharing? It's a REQUIREMENT to even be in Bob. (not the cynonet stuff but the account sharing) Back to square one.
Helox Gallente Demonic Retribution Pure.	Posted - 2007.02.10 22:13:00 - [1740] First, I do not need t20 to be fired to keep enjoying the game. But I do not understand why he isn't. I have been working as a system administrator for the past 7 years, and I cannot begin to think of what would happen to me if I were ever to abuse the systems that are trusted to me. It's not CCP that I blame, more compagnies have empoyees they cannot miss, but I cannot believe that t20 himself wants to keep this job. Forgiveness is fine, but by his action he has betrayed the customers as well as his collegues. Other people have pointed out that removing the BPO's is a good way to deal with this. It's unbelievable that CCP thinks this will solve their problem. Right now there is a giant breach in convidance between CCP and their customers, and they better figure something better out to fix it. -- the above is my personal opinion and does not necessarily reflect that of the little voices in my head

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