Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 .. 53 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Pandora Carrollon
Dawn of a New Horizon The Republic.
643
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:13:01 -
[631] - Quote
Roland Schlosser wrote:Alphas should not be allowed multiple clients open. The feature is intended to bring new blood in, not allow current players to have as many disposable alts as they please.
Corporation management should also be removed form the Alpha skills list, same reasoning as above. New, potentially temporary, players should be funneled into existing Corps, not allowed to create permanent in game entities.
I agree on your last point but disagree on your first. At least 1 F2P account should be allowed on line per sub account, otherwise a sub account becomes a detriment. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. 1 F2P account likely wouldn't create any more havoc than normal and might balance out some of the multi-boxing issues that currently exist. It would also be incentive for the F2P players to get a sub account so they could multi-box.
In all fairness, I am representing my own self interest here as this is something *I'd* like to be available to me. So, full disclosure there.
8 Golden Rules of EVE GÇó EVE is entirely PvP
|
Soltys
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
150
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:18:10 -
[632] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:This is a terrific idea - give old Omega's a few days/week to come back and try EvE again, then flop to the Alpha status. Could be something CCP does on a recuring basis to bring some of our old bro's back.
Instead of recurring make it automatic, for example:
For each account that hasn't logged for 1 month or more, offer free Omega clone for say 2 days. Up to 7 days maxium.
Or anything similar along those lines, with whatever granularity deemed sensible.
Jita Flipping Inc.: Solmp / Kovl
|
Hendrick Tallardar
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
483
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:18:28 -
[633] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The Leopardess wrote:Just because I send silly amounts of money to this game whenever I look at it sideways doesn't mean I think everyone should - or can. Free play means more people to kill and buy my crap! Yay! I doubt I will even bother owning an alpha unless maybe an extra scout or something. yeah tell that to SWOTR.... god that game went down hill
SWTOR's woes weren't solely due to the free-to-play implementation. It was **** years before that. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2942
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:18:35 -
[634] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:The Leopardess wrote:Just because I send silly amounts of money to this game whenever I look at it sideways doesn't mean I think everyone should - or can. Free play means more people to kill and buy my crap! Yay! I doubt I will even bother owning an alpha unless maybe an extra scout or something. yeah tell that to SWOTR.... god that game went down hill You sir are 100% correct SWTOR has become nothing but a meh game attached to a Pay Shop. In that case, however, the free-to-play mechanics came in AFTER the game was already headed downhill in a hurry, and that was entirely related to the lackluster design of the original game. It was basically a 4-player co-op game that attempted to also be an MMO and failed. I think you guys are getting your causation mixed up. Yes, in the majority of cases where an MMO went free-to-play, it came in after a dramatic loss of players associated with bad design decisions, but that isn't the case here. EVE has experienced a slow decline in players primarily due to old veterans growing up and moving on with their lives, and more people deciding they don't want to get locked in to spending $15 a month for years to play a video game. The whole thing of every reduction of the PCU count being as a result of CCP driving away their customers is bullshit. That's the same bullshit that was brought up before EVERY update this game has ever had even while it was expanding in player count year after year. As many people have pointed out before me, EVE Online is the game that has been dying and in it's last few months of life ever since it launched in 2003 if you believe the Forums. Again, pointing out your concerns so they can be addressed is exactly what CCP has been requesting multiple times in each of these last two DevBlogs, but throwing around doom prophecies because you're scared of change isn't going to help anything. Yes, when Skill Injectors were first announced, I had a STRONG knee-jerk reaction and thought it was a terrible idea. Then I took some time to think about how the idea was presented and how it would function and realized that it would actually have no impact whatsoever on my day-to-day experience and would be quite beneficial for others. Everyone here in this thread right now needs to give themselves the time to calm down and think rationally.
no the major decline doesn't even come from gameplay directly but in things like customer help. suddenly there are more ppl needing help and most of those ppl are not paying enough to keep the support staff growing at the same rate. THIS is what leads to the majority of issues and ppl getting dissatisfied.
Citadel worm hole tax
|
Dark Lord Trump
Pandemic Horde Inc. Pandemic Horde
102
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:19:44 -
[635] - Quote
A question I've seen asked once or twice here, but not answered: What happens to the referral system? Obviously you won't be getting a longer trial from it, but will there still be buddy links that award PLEX (or whatever we're going to use for Omega upgrades) when my friend subscribes? It would be nice to be able to toss some ISK the way of a friend, but I don't have the cash reserves to be handing out a bil to everyone who joins up.
I'm going to build a big wall that will keep the Gallente out, and they're going to pay for it!
|
Pirokobo
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
32
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:21:06 -
[636] - Quote
Questions:
1. Is it deliberate that alphas can't train any levels of infomorph psychology?
2. Isn't that kind of a **** thing to do to them? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1198
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:23:37 -
[637] - Quote
Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are,
could you make it any more obvious how poorly the csm is treated by ccp |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2943
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:26:58 -
[638] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Quote:The CSM heard about this concept just a couple days ago--basically the same time you are, could you make it any more obvious how poorly the csm is treated by ccp
you could look at examples from the last two years
i mean at least this time they just didn't tell them
they could have showed them one version of it got their approval and then go ahead with something completely different
Citadel worm hole tax
|
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:28:34 -
[639] - Quote
so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free |
MidnightWyvern
Night Theifs Curatores Veritatis Alliance
332
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:36:08 -
[640] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone!
How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand?
EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors.
Rattati Senpai noticed us! See you in the next FPS!
Alts: Saray Wyvern, Mobius Wyvern (Dust 514)
|
|
Christopher Mabata
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
409
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:39:53 -
[641] - Quote
So i heard about this on the news apps i follow earlier, got about 12 different texts from friends who knew i used to play and had to come see for myself. So it seems it is true, and i'm impressed.
Now i may be out of touch since i haven't played since early 2015 late 2014 but i think a stream of new characters joining the game is good, both for CCP and for many people here as well. My only real concern here though is the race restriction. I understand wanting to keep alphas out of pirate faction ships but for returning players such as myself it could prove an issue for a select few of us. ( or perhaps not so few, who am i to know? )
Now on to my point:
See when i started the game, knowing absolutely nothing years ago i choose the Caldari because i liked the way the ships looked ( Except the Blackbird Back then and the Condor ) and because i liked the sound of the faction, now years later i wound up specializing in Gallente and Amarr as well to the point now where i have more SP in Gallente related skills than i do in Caldari. ( More ships, More Drones SP, More Gunnery SP than missiles, Tank, etc. )
If i ever lapsed down to Alpha when things got slow for me again being locked out of ships such as the vexor would be frustrating since i can fly that much better than i can a caracal right now. Granted i have shy of 3 months to prepare, which i re-subbed for and am doing now, but for others who come back later and cannot make a skill queue now; who did the same thing i did it could be a rough edge that might keep some older players away from even the alpha stage to ease back into things. Not to mention brand-newbies but ill get into that in a sec
I would propose simply making the ships themselves require Alpha/Omega Status so players could still use a vexor or a caracal or an arbitrator if they chose Matari as their base race rather than sticking them in a faction they may no longer even fly. And at the same time as an Alpha i cant hop in a Cruor or whatever others i can fly without paying to access the ship like everyone in Omega status.
I get that its trying to restrict these clones to the 5Million SP range but restricting a new player like that could mean they put a lot of time into their pilot ( in terms of alphas not the long game for many of us 50/100m SP+ Accounts ), decide they like another faction more and then have to start all over if they dont want to subscribe yet which could be discouraging. then the older players such as myself like i already stated and so on. At least they should be able to sample each faction even if its only up to cruisers with T1 fits like the list seems to suggest is the case.
Just my 2 cents, now anyways back to figuring out the better part of 2 years of patch notes 07
GÖú Theory-Crafter GÖú Free Agent GÖú Immortal Space Pirate GÖú "Better the Devil you Know than the devil you don't" -Observing and dismantling F&I Discussion Threads since 2013Gäó
|
Eternus8lux8lucis
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
931
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:41:14 -
[642] - Quote
Okay seeing as Im not going to read the entire 32 pages and growing thread Ill put in my two cents right now instead
FW LP farming and anom farming will be the most abused. Venture mining in high sec with max skills will net half of a starting characters yield in a procurer. 6.2m2 but will have a tank of a wet paper bag and be alphable by thrashers all over the place.
To solve the ganking yes yellow or green safeties only because we want them to steal loot and be fiendish without ganking.
Multiple log ins should be curtailed to some degree definitely. Eyes in every system will be the norm I think.
Give all the racial industrials to everyone. It is the one ship class that shouldnt be limited to racial lines. Mostly because then you will end up with most being gallente or else you are stuck with sub par industrials for everything. Gallente got the buff with the iteron split and the implementation of specific holds to the different races need to still be something everyone can enjoy.
In regards to manufacturing and trade. The skills limit Manufacturing to 5 production lines and 12 trade orders. This is an abuseable number imo. We already see the Jita alts that come in numbered into the hundreds of alts and this will simply make it worse AND create it in all the hubs en masse. With the introduction of Citadels and their 0% broker fees and the range to change orders at L2 it will create a HUGE imbalance as free alts sit and trade all day and manufacture as well.
The implementation is actually well done and doesnt **** me off at all tbh as Eve was already free to play if you had even half a brain. Though I do doubt it will bring in the new subs as much as originally thought but it could so Im okay waiting and seeing what the future holds.
Have you heard anything I've said?
You said it's all circling the drain, the whole universe. Right?
That's right.
Had to end sometime.
|
Desiderya
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Wrecking Machine.
1123
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:41:52 -
[643] - Quote
Nice idea. I think fitting skills - akin to the learning skills of old they're a bit annoying - should be a little less restricted. Getting the basic ones to V and AWU to 3 should help. This is from the perspective of someone routinely supplying ships to people.
Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.
|
Rendering
Ten Dollar Bond GoonSwarm
7
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:42:04 -
[644] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone! How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand? EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors.
EvilWeasel isn't really known for reading comprehension. |
Mitch Taylor
Dark-Rising Wrecking Machine.
100
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:45:31 -
[645] - Quote
I think they know what they are doing...
they do know what they are doing right?
DARK
RISING
Stop playing EVE
Start living it
|
Kopaka Newton
Sanctuary of Shadows Triumvirate.
15
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:48:43 -
[646] - Quote
I don't think alpha clones should be racially locked. The other restrictions are fine, but really it wouldn't tip the balance of the game if an alpha had acess to all the T1 frigs on the same character. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
2943
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:51:48 -
[647] - Quote
Mitch Taylor wrote:I think they know what they are doing... they do know what they are doing right?
yeah i mean they added dailies for S- .... well i mean i'm sure they do why doubt them
Citadel worm hole tax
|
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:51:54 -
[648] - Quote
MidnightWyvern wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone! How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand? EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors. holy **** you're dumb
you can fill up way more than one extractor per plex cycle |
Fedo Otsolen
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:53:51 -
[649] - Quote
#burnjita still not trending.... I think this is a troll.... |
Ichi Uno
Jackwagon Express
0
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:54:11 -
[650] - Quote
Rendering wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone! How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand? EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors. EvilWeasel isn't really known for reading comprehension.
The current barrier to entry in the SP farming trade is the initial 5 mil SP. You extract at 5.5 mil back down to 5 mil, rinse & repeat. Assuming that this change drives SP farming margins to 0, its still worth doing to provide near unlimited Omega alts after the sunk cost for things like PI, Skiff miners, cyno, AFK cloakys - whatever you want |
|
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
924
|
Posted - 2016.08.31 23:59:56 -
[651] - Quote
My $0.02: By and large, I think this is a good idea from CCP and it's one I hope will be accompanied by an advertising blitz to draw in new players.
I'll be interested to see what, if any, multiple log-in restrictions are implemented.
A few points: 1: Alphas should not be able to use Cloaks nor light Cynosural Fields. Cloaks are great. Cynos are great. Free disposable alts with cloaks and cynos? Please think very carefully about that one.
2: Think very carefully about allowing Alphas to fly the Venture. My first thought when reading about this was: Sweet, I can stash a 20 Alpha Account Venture fleet in my Wormhole to crack any Ore anomalies that turn up. I'll do it too, unless there's some mechanical reason preventing me. I have a rather grunty PC. If I go into potato mode, I daresay I could fairly easily run those 20 accounts. I also daresay I won't be the only one.
Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze
This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura
|
beakerax
Pator Tech School
301
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:00:10 -
[652] - Quote
We should stop calling this free to play. This is more like indefinite trials (but with even more restrictions).
Ichi Uno wrote:The current barrier to entry in the SP farming trade is the initial 5 mil SP. Since the alpha clone skills already cannot be extracted, why not make them also not count towards the 5mil extraction minimum? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:00:35 -
[653] - Quote
Ichi Uno wrote: The current barrier to entry in the SP farming trade is the initial 5 mil SP. You extract at 5.5 mil back down to 5 mil, rinse & repeat. Assuming that this change drives SP farming margins to 0, its still worth doing to provide near unlimited Omega alts after the sunk cost for things like PI, Skiff miners, cyno, AFK cloakys - whatever you want
yeah
only real barrier is making one of the alphas on the account wasted sitting in jita for maximum laziness in skillgoop extraction |
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:07:38 -
[654] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:MidnightWyvern wrote:EvilweaselSA wrote:so with the ability to get to 5m sp, skill injector prices are going to crash as people can create a farm of 100 skillgoop bastards for free then only subscribe them to train + extract once its profitable
also, t1 production could not be more dead when you can scale t1 production jobs infinitely for free The DevBlog specifically states that you CANNOT extract skills from an Alpha Clone! How many of you are just reading the title and then clicking the Comments thread to scream about things you don't even understand? EDIT: Okay, I see what you're saying about subscribing them afterwards, but how do you make a profit with that? PLEX cost more than Skill Injectors. holy **** you're dumb you can fill up way more than one extractor per plex cycle
Holy **** you're dumb.
Note he wrote injectors.
And he is slightly incorrect. If you fill up 3 injectors worth of SP you make about as much as a PLEX costs.
The prices of extractors, injectors were speculated to end up close to the cost of a PLEX...and look it is.
So if you are going to create 100 "skillgoop bastards" (which is not free as there is opportunity costs; if setting up 100 accounts is your idea of time well spent...you're pretty pathetic) you'll rarely sub them and log them in and if you did, by the time you are done skilling any profit you might have obtained could very well vanish.
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1200
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:14:24 -
[655] - Quote
Teckos Pech wrote: Holy **** you're dumb.
Note he wrote injectors.
And he is slightly incorrect. If you fill up 3 injectors worth of SP you make about as much as a PLEX costs.
The prices of extractors, injectors were speculated to end up close to the cost of a PLEX...and look it is.
So if you are going to create 100 "skillgoop bastards" (which is not free as there is opportunity costs; if setting up 100 accounts is your idea of time well spent...you're pretty pathetic) you'll rarely sub them and log them in and if you did, by the time you are done skilling any profit you might have obtained could very well vanish.
thinking, reading, and math are all not really your strong suit as you have embarrassed yourself on all three here
|
Ikshuki
Trump Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:14:43 -
[656] - Quote
I am now in a crossroad, after playing this amazing game i ever played for 9 years, i'm now wondering if i should unsub for good, this F2P system will destroy the playerbase and all initiative to keep subbed, the whole point of having plex is to play for free, why do we need a F2P model on top of an already existing F2P model, all one has to to do now to keep playing is to create 10 F2P accounts, get them in barges, buy up skill injectors using subbed accounts to counter the skilling slowdown, and farm isk to buy plex, this system will ultimately ruin eve as a whole, this really saddens me CCP, and this disappoints me |
Ikshuki
Trump Enterprises
24
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:17:48 -
[657] - Quote
Mephiztopheleze wrote:My $0.02: By and large, I think this is a good idea from CCP and it's one I hope will be accompanied by an advertising blitz to draw in new players.
I'll be interested to see what, if any, multiple log-in restrictions are implemented.
A few points: 1: Alphas should not be able to use Cloaks nor light Cynosural Fields. Cloaks are great. Cynos are great. Free disposable alts with cloaks and cynos? Please think very carefully about that one.
2: Think very carefully about allowing Alphas to fly the Venture. My first thought when reading about this was: Sweet, I can stash a 20 Alpha Account Venture fleet in my Wormhole to crack any Ore anomalies that turn up. I'll do it too, unless there's some mechanical reason preventing me. I have a rather grunty PC. If I go into potato mode, I daresay I could fairly easily run those 20 accounts. I also daresay I won't be the only one. what's to say some won't do it with 50+ accounts?
|
Teckos Pech
The Executives Executive Outcomes
5160
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:19:57 -
[658] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:Teckos Pech wrote: Holy **** you're dumb.
Note he wrote injectors.
And he is slightly incorrect. If you fill up 3 injectors worth of SP you make about as much as a PLEX costs.
The prices of extractors, injectors were speculated to end up close to the cost of a PLEX...and look it is.
So if you are going to create 100 "skillgoop bastards" (which is not free as there is opportunity costs; if setting up 100 accounts is your idea of time well spent...you're pretty pathetic) you'll rarely sub them and log them in and if you did, by the time you are done skilling any profit you might have obtained could very well vanish.
thinking, reading, and math are all not really your strong suit as you have embarrassed yourself on all three here
Yeah, exactly where is the error?
BTW, look at what you wrote:
Skill Injectors are going to crash!
But....skill injectors will be profitable enough for you to log in.
Which one is it?
"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek
|
loon Mabebu
New Found Prospects Manifesto.
7
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:20:42 -
[659] - Quote
I like the concept of free to play eve. How ever i to have some concerns. Being as i have only ready through 4 pages i may have missed if someone else has already posted this.
I personally would like to see alpha's be completely locked out of Industry all together. By allowing them to do industry they can in high sec afk mine to their hearts content. This will have a large effect on the mineral costs. It will in deed make it so that most mining will be done by ftp accounts. So those that are currently using that as a way to make money in eve will loose out quite a bit.
If you don't wish to make them locked out from it then perhaps make more of the asteroids require deep core mining.
I would recommend limiting ftp accounts to 2 per computer. This allows for basic dual boxing. How ever subbed accounts should not be counted against this measure.
I would also say remove 90% of trading skills (talking about the ones that are already on the list). Again inflation is going to be huge if they are able to do buy and sell orders. Why yet again all they will have to do is sit in station and buy and sell. That is all they will do. It doesn't really contribute to the system. That or else as screwy as it sounds have ftp run on their own economic system.
I like that you currently have them training up just like every other person in eve. How ever i would like to say that free accounts should train at a much slower pace than a subbed account. I know implants can speed up the process but i think that free accounts should start with a higher modifier to there skill training. This make people who are actually subbed from the start already feel the difference. Otherwise why would anyone want to sub right off the bat now.
I also do support the idea that an alpha account should in high sec have there safety locked at green. How ever that may interfere with wars. (not quite sure of the mechanics of it. Can you attack a war target while still green?)
Chat is another piece that i have encountered with ptp games that have gone ftp. I think that the devs should look very closely at how chat systems will work. There are going to be an over abundance of crap put out.
Over all i do not like the idea of a ftp eve account. It is not something i support. I have seen many games be ruined by going to a ftp besides a ptp. While in truth the games did come back they where not necessarily the better for it. My over all opinion is be careful the lines you tread with this. It will open up things that will not do any good for the game if not done/ monitored correctly.
Until then my fellow capsulers fly safe. |
Taxtro Grave
Phantom Squad The Blood Covenant
6
|
Posted - 2016.09.01 00:21:28 -
[660] - Quote
Great idea.
I've tried so many times to get my friends to join over the decade of me playing. Every single time the only reason they would not, is because my friends would rather go buy a 20 sack than pay to play.
This will get them the exposure and make them want to play for real.
As long their 'clone state' is fairly limited (think long ago where seeing a battleship was like seeing a unicorn irl), I'm all for it. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 40 50 .. 53 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |