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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14484
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Posted - 2016.10.04 13:41:22 -
[1] - Quote
Hey folks! This will be the specific feedback thread for the Orca revamp coming this November. You can check out the dev blog here for the whole context. Other feedback threads are available for the Porpoise, Rorqual, and the mining foreman gameplay as a whole.
ORCA Industrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level): 5% bonus to ship cargo capacity and ore hold 3% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst Strength and Duration 1% bonus to Shield Command Burst Strength and Duration 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield -10% reduction in drone ice harvesting cycle time Role bonus: 100% bonus to drone mining yield -25% reduction in drone ice harvesting cycle time 100% bonus to drone damage 400% bonus to Remote Shield Booster optimal range 90% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue Can fit three Command Burst modules 50% bonus to Command Burst Area of Effect Range 250% bonus to Tractor Beam range 100% bonus to Tractor Beam velocity 500% bonus to Survey Scanner range
Slot layout: 6H (+3), 5M (+1), 2L Fittings: 1200 PWG (+240), 550 CPU (+120) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 30,000 (+19,250) / 7000 (+100) / 45,000 (-1000) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 40 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 35 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 8000 (+3800) / 1200s (+400) / 6.67 (+1.42) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 60 / 0.26 (+0.1) / 150,000,000 (-100,000,000) / 54.07s (-1.38) Warp Speed: 2 au/s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 200 (+125) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km (+10) / 75 / 7 (+5) Sensor strength: 30 Magnetometric (+15) Signature radius: 1000 Cargo Hold: 30,000m3 Ore Hold: 150,000m3 (+100,000) Fleet Hangar: 40,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay: 400,000m3
Cost: ~700m isk Max Yield: ~1400m3 per minute + drone travel time Max DPS: ~800 dps
Let us know what you think!
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
14484
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Posted - 2016.10.04 13:41:33 -
[2] - Quote
Reserved
Game Designer | Team Five-0
Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
431
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Posted - 2016.10.04 17:37:26 -
[3] - Quote
6 HS orca, that's awesome, so, with the Command Processor Rig you can burst 2 shield related and 2 mining related bursts... *wants to ghost fit an orca*, since I assume the equipment booster is still not valued at all.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
7
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Posted - 2016.10.04 17:43:56 -
[4] - Quote
I, for one, welcome our new Mining Foreman Ship overlords. |
Valkin Mordirc
2554
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Posted - 2016.10.04 17:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
I'm not a miner but the prospect of baiting people out with a battle orca sounds amazing.
#DeleteTheWeak
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Echo Mande
82
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Posted - 2016.10.04 17:48:02 -
[6] - Quote
Please, pretty please, add ore compression as an Orca/Rorqual ability, even if this has to be enabled with a module and skill. Ore compression in the field would IMO be much more useful, and support the fleet much better, than a larger ore hold would. It would allow the Orca/Rorqual to tractor in cans, compress and store the contents and then allow a single hauler to be far more useful hauling compressed ore/ice to station. It would also keep the command pilot more involved and in the field. Not giving compression to the Porpoise would give the Orca/Rorqual an extra force multiplier bonus over the Porpoise.
On a related note, are the command ships' ore holds accessable to the fleet, like a fleet hangar?
Wallet remarks everywhere
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3412
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Posted - 2016.10.04 17:51:49 -
[7] - Quote
We are getting Ice Mining Drones? Or did we already have them?
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Tyanshe
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
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Posted - 2016.10.04 17:52:07 -
[8] - Quote
The added high slots make me really happy. The only thing I would want is a bigger ship maint array. The hisec carrier and wh base of operations orca is real. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc Tactical-Retreat
2078
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:00:53 -
[9] - Quote
Awww nice buff, but I'm a bit sad that the SMA size remains the same. I like this assembled ship suitcase ability of the Orca. Makes for a very tiny mobile home, I'd have loved to see some thoughts given to that kind of nomadic gameplay.
Signature Tanking Best Tanking
[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr
Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
431
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:07:58 -
[10] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:We are getting Ice Mining Drones? Or did we already have them?
They are new, read the whole blog ;)
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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TheSmokingHertog
Julia's Interstellar Trade Emperium
431
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:08:53 -
[11] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Awww nice buff, but I'm a bit sad that the SMA size remains the same. I like this assembled ship suitcase ability of the Orca. Makes for a very tiny mobile home, I'd have loved to see some thoughts given to that kind of nomadic gameplay.
I use a combo of Orca and the ORE hauler for a mobile mining fleet.
"Dogma is kind of like quantum physics, observing the dogma state will change it." ~ CCP Prism X
"Schrödinger's Missile. I dig it." ~ Makari Aeron
-= "Brain in a Box on Singularity" - April 2015 =-
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Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
7
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:17:29 -
[12] - Quote
Might be an idea to tune belt rat AI to attack drones ? |
KrazyTaco
Yellow Duck Consortium
5
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:22:25 -
[13] - Quote
Has any thought been given to the implications for NPC corp miners in High Sec now being able to essentially use the Orca as a near invincible default mining platform instead of the traditional barge / exhumer?
Given that the Orca will remain around the same price and it can now mine just as well as a yield fit Mackinaw, receives an extra 33k ehp base, and has a huge ore hold, what will stop a proliferation of Orcas that can't be engaged with in any meaningful way than by all but the largest gank fleets in High Sec? |
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
637
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:23:23 -
[14] - Quote
Love it, but isn't it maybe a tad bit OP?
I'm pretty sure that it could solo run most L4 missions AFK, with that amount of drone damage, coupled with that much tank.
And, with the bonused tractor range/speed, extra highs and large cargo hold, it could also easily do its own looting & salvaging. |
Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
7
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:31:43 -
[15] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:Love it, but isn't it maybe a tad bit OP?
I'm pretty sure that it could solo run most L4 missions AFK, with that amount of drone damage, coupled with that much tank.
And, with the bonused tractor range/speed, extra highs and large cargo hold, it could also easily do its own looting & salvaging.
Missions is a relatively easy fix, just remove there gate access, although it'll make mission miners sad I assume. |
Jasper Sinclair
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
41
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:42:36 -
[16] - Quote
The Orca was already one of the most useful ships in the game. Now even more so. Ironically, even though I'm in RvB I endorse all efforts to make PvE gameplay more fun, interesting and rewarding.
Acting Blue CEO, Senior Combat Coordinator, admirer of Caracals
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Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
180
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:42:42 -
[17] - Quote
The lowered mass on the orca will kill its job as high risk- high reward roller in WHs. Not that higgs-WCS-BS have not done that already.
Will also make hauling in WHs easier since the hole will not collapse as fast. |
Soldarius
O C C U P Y Test Alliance Please Ignore
1533
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:45:46 -
[18] - Quote
At a price point of 700M isk, I feel like this ship gives a lot for the cost/risk.
http://youtu.be/YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Alphaphi
KASK deep space drilling
27
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:47:09 -
[19] - Quote
KrazyTaco wrote:Has any thought been given to the implications for NPC corp miners in High Sec now being able to essentially use the Orca as a near invincible default mining platform instead of the traditional barge / exhumer?
Given that the Orca will remain around the same price and it can now mine just as well as a yield fit Mackinaw, receives an extra 33k ehp base, and has a huge ore hold, what will stop a proliferation of Orcas that can't be engaged with in any meaningful way than by all but the largest gank fleets in High Sec?
The orca will have a lower yield per minute as a result of the drone traveltime. and as far as i am concerned, drones are NOT affected by the command bursts, so wouldnt the exhumer have a higher m3/minute?
but it will very well make it a new carebear boat. |
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
842
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Posted - 2016.10.04 18:51:02 -
[20] - Quote
As a long time Orca Pilot, I'm very Happy with these changes! |
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6201
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Posted - 2016.10.04 19:04:13 -
[21] - Quote
Echo Mande wrote:Please, pretty please, add ore compression as an Orca/Rorqual ability, even if this has to be enabled with a module and skill. Ore compression in the field would IMO be much more useful, and support the fleet much better, than a larger ore hold would. It would allow the Orca/Rorqual to tractor in cans, compress and store the contents and then allow a single hauler to be far more useful hauling compressed ore/ice to station. It would also keep the command pilot more involved and in the field. Not giving compression to the Porpoise would give the Orca/Rorqual an extra force multiplier bonus over the Porpoise.
On a related note, are the command ships' ore holds accessable to the fleet, like a fleet hangar?
Quote:Enables Ore and Ice Compression
The industrial core turns on the ability to compress ore.It's pretty much always had this option.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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AgentMaster
Platinum Octopus Infernal Octopus
3
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Posted - 2016.10.04 19:17:40 -
[22] - Quote
All these numbers and calculations look nice, but i have a simple question: How fast will full hold one retriever under the new orca boost at max skills
Blessed is the man who has nothing to say and remain silent yet!!
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Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
825
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Posted - 2016.10.04 19:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mining Drone II (Quote: The Mining Drone II will remain largely unchanged in November, as it represents the current baseline for drone mining) = 33m-¦ per 60s
Mining Drone Operations V: +25% yield Mining Drone Spez V: +10% yield Industrial Command Ship V: +50% yield Orca Role Bonus: +100% yield 2x T2 Drone Rig (stackingpenalty ignored): +30% yield 1x T1 Drone Rig (stackingpenalty still ignored): +10% yield Number of Mining Drones: 5 (until Guardian Orca released...)
33m-¦ x 1.25 x 1.10 x 1.5 x 2.0 x 1.3 x 1.1 x 5 = 973.29m-¦ per 60s
x 1.09 for Augmented Mining Drones = 1,060.89m-¦ per 60s
Still 30-40% below Quote: "Max Yield: ~1400m3 per minute + drone travel time"
Am I missing a skill / module / imp / drug / math?
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
238
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Posted - 2016.10.04 19:26:55 -
[24] - Quote
It looks great so far. But can we please get ore compression on the orca? And what about an visual update for the orca and the rorqual?
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Oradric Cube
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
8
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Posted - 2016.10.04 19:47:48 -
[25] - Quote
According to http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Timers#Remote_assistance and my understanding of the remote repair mechanics the orca pilot would get a concord suspect flag (yellow blinky) if they perform remote repair on a fleet member that has been attacked by another player in hisec triggering concord criminal (red blinky).
Saying it another way: Player A is piloting an orca in hisec with Player B piloting a retriever when Player C arrives in a catalyst. None of them have any timers yet. Player C then attacks Player B triggering concord response and a concord criminal (red blinky) flag on Player C. Player B is taking damage (but not dead yet) and has a Capsuleer Log-Off Timer and I believe a Limited Engagement Timer with Player C. If Player A has remote repair modules fitted and activates them on Player B (requiring a safety setting of yellow) then I believe Player A will inherit the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Limited Engagement Timer with Player C and I think Player A will also get a concord suspect timer (yellow blinky).
Am I correct in my understanding?
What about the new boost mechanism? How will it interact with the existing timer system? If in my example Player A did not use remote repair modules at all but instead hit Player B with a boost pulse/tick would Player A inherit the timers or not? |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
554
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Posted - 2016.10.04 19:52:59 -
[26] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:Mining Drone II (Quote: The Mining Drone II will remain largely unchanged in November, as it represents the current baseline for drone mining) = 33m-¦ per 60s
Mining Drone Operations V: +25% yield Mining Drone Spez V: +10% yield Industrial Command Ship V: +50% yield Orca Role Bonus: +100% yield 2x T2 Drone Rig (stackingpenalty ignored): +30% yield 1x T1 Drone Rig (stackingpenalty still ignored): +10% yield Number of Mining Drones: 5 (until Guardian Orca released...)
33m-¦ x 1.25 x 1.10 x 1.5 x 2.0 x 1.3 x 1.1 x 5 = 973.29m-¦ per 60s
x 1.09 for Augmented Mining Drones = 1,060.89m-¦ per 60s
Still 30-40% below Quote: "Max Yield: ~1400m3 per minute + drone travel time"
Am I missing a skill / module / imp / drug / math?
You miscalc'd your rigs. Each rig is a multiplicator on their own. Edit: Oh, and you forgot Drone Interfacing. Which is anothert x1.5 |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5896
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:01:24 -
[27] - Quote
The tripling in size of the ore hold on this beast, along with 25% bonus to ore hold size thanks to Industrial Command Ships 5 GÇö boosting total capacity to about 187,500m3 GÇö more than makes up for lack of ore compression IMHO. Now I'll be able to vacuum my usual mining haul into the Orca in one go without having a miner switch to hauling. I'd love this update even if it wasn't for the improvements that make mining drones actually useful.
Though one thing still bothers me: "90% reduction to effective distance travelled for jump fatigue" indicates to me that mistakes have been made in designing certain game mechanics.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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nezroy
Nice Clan
32
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:01:26 -
[28] - Quote
Oradric Cube wrote:According to http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Timers#Remote_assistance and my understanding of the remote repair mechanics the orca pilot would get a concord suspect flag (yellow blinky) if they perform remote repair on a fleet member that has been attacked by another player in hisec triggering concord criminal (red blinky).
No. Neutral logi only gets a suspect flag if there is an LE on the target being repped. Being attacked in hisec does not give you an LE with the attacking pilot UNLESS YOU SHOOT BACK. If you do nothing, you will have no flags (other than logoff timer) and anyone can rep you safely.
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Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
825
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:06:10 -
[29] - Quote
Syrias Bizniz wrote:You miscalc'd your rigs. Each rig is a multiplicator on their own. Edit: Oh, and you forgot Drone Interfacing. Which is anothert x1.5
Have to take a closer look to rigs. Drone Interfacing is in fact the skill I missed with huge impact. Now I'm at 1,020.93m-¦ with T2 drones without rigs. Adding rigs and maybe harvester drones will give 1,400m-¦.
Thanks for pointing this out.
Oh wait... you are a Goon... Grrr Goons! :p
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Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:16:55 -
[30] - Quote
KrazyTaco wrote:Has any thought been given to the implications for NPC corp miners in High Sec now being able to essentially use the Orca as a near invincible default mining platform instead of the traditional barge / exhumer?
Given that the Orca will remain around the same price and it can now mine just as well as a yield fit Mackinaw, receives an extra 33k ehp base, and has a huge ore hold, what will stop a proliferation of Orcas that can't be engaged with in any meaningful way than by all but the largest gank fleets in High Sec?
Orcas are very easy to bump. And I see they made the align even worse, by quite a lot. A few bumpers could knock any orcas out of the belt very quickly. |
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Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
842
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:33:37 -
[31] - Quote
Oradric Cube wrote:According to http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Timers#Remote_assistance and my understanding of the remote repair mechanics the orca pilot would get a concord suspect flag (yellow blinky) if they perform remote repair on a fleet member that has been attacked by another player in hisec triggering concord criminal (red blinky). Saying it another way: Player A is piloting an orca in hisec with Player B piloting a retriever when Player C arrives in a catalyst. None of them have any timers yet. Player C then attacks Player B triggering concord response and a concord criminal (red blinky) flag on Player C. Player B is taking damage (but not dead yet) and has a Capsuleer Log-Off Timer and I believe a Limited Engagement Timer with Player C. If Player A has remote repair modules fitted and activates them on Player B (requiring a safety setting of yellow) then I believe Player A will inherit the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Limited Engagement Timer with Player C and I think Player A will also get a concord suspect timer (yellow blinky). Am I correct in my understanding? What about the new boost mechanism? How will it interact with the existing timer system? If in my example Player A did not use remote repair modules at all but instead hit Player B with a boost pulse/tick would Player A inherit the timers or not? If this was the case ALOT of Anti-Ganker Logi would get a suspect flag at every gank they try to prevent... |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3627
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:47:21 -
[32] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote: If this was the case ALOT of Anti-Ganker Logi would get a suspect flag at every gank they try to prevent...
In this instance, the only way the Orca Pilot gets a timer is if the Miner agrees to a dual with the ganker...which is why you see ALOT of ~elite pvpers~ only fight at Jita unlock with 5-6 neutral logi within instant docking range...
Wrong. If the Barge shoots back to defend themselves even if it's a criminal attack, the Orca pilot would then go suspect. The only ways the Orca pilot doesn't go suspect is if both Orca & Barge are in the same corp and are at war (and not 100% sure on that not making the Orca suspect), or if the Barge never defends itself but just sits there. Last I tested even same alliance but different corp at war you still went suspect. Because it counted as repping a war target.
Darrien wrote:Might be an idea to tune belt rat AI to attack drones ? Belt AI 'can' attack drones since it's the same AI as missions, but they need to make the belt AI spawns tougher so elite spawns happen and more damage is done in general by belt spawns. Non elite frigates don't engage lights, only mediums if I recall the drone agro charts correctly. |
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.10.04 20:54:22 -
[33] - Quote
Where can we get some info on the new ice harvesting drones? Need stats! Info given was only for yield on normal mining drones. |
Syrias Bizniz
Zebra Corp Goonswarm Federation
555
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:02:36 -
[34] - Quote
I, for one, welcome our new highsec PvP overlords! |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
44
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:02:45 -
[35] - Quote
I LOVE YOU CCP! MY BEAUTIFUL ORCA! AHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA |
Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
843
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:10:04 -
[36] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:]
If the Barge shoots back to defend themselves even if it's a criminal attack, the Orca pilot would then go suspect. The only ways the Orca pilot doesn't go suspect is if both Orca & Barge are in the same corp and are at war (and not 100% sure on that not making the Orca suspect), or if the Barge never defends itself but just sits there. Last I tested even same alliance but different corp at war you still went suspect. Because it counted as repping a war target.
Only if the Barge defends itself...otherwise I would've lost my Orca a LONG time ago...yes I'm including the fact that both Orca and Barge pilot are in different Corps. Otherwise any and all Anti-Ganker Logi used in repping a Freighter under a Gank would die almost instantly! (Just go play around the hotspots where Freighters go to die and watch...) |
Selak Zorander
Mord-Sith
7
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:11:13 -
[37] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Echo Mande wrote:Please, pretty please, add ore compression as an Orca/Rorqual ability, even if this has to be enabled with a module and skill. Ore compression in the field would IMO be much more useful, and support the fleet much better, than a larger ore hold would. It would allow the Orca/Rorqual to tractor in cans, compress and store the contents and then allow a single hauler to be far more useful hauling compressed ore/ice to station. It would also keep the command pilot more involved and in the field. Not giving compression to the Porpoise would give the Orca/Rorqual an extra force multiplier bonus over the Porpoise.
On a related note, are the command ships' ore holds accessable to the fleet, like a fleet hangar? Quote:Enables Ore and Ice Compression The industrial core turns on the ability to compress ore.It's pretty much always had this option.
he is referring to making it such that there is a version of the industrial core that can be used on the orca. currently only the rorqual can use it as far as i am aware. |
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:14:13 -
[38] - Quote
Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. It should not be able to mine at all, or, if you want it to be able to mine, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners die their yields being the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Crazy. |
Sullen Decimus
Polaris Rising The Bastion
28
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:24:12 -
[39] - Quote
Altrue wrote:Awww nice buff, but I'm a bit sad that the SMA size remains the same. I like this assembled ship suitcase ability of the Orca. Makes for a very tiny mobile home, I'd have loved to see some thoughts given to that kind of nomadic gameplay.
Making the sma bigger would start to cut into the bowhead territory. Rather than doing that though I mentioned taking a look at the barge sizes and if you read the blog they are reducing the volume of the hulk/covetor by 25%. That should make those mobile ops a little easier :)
Twitter: Sullen_Decimus
Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus
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Sullen Decimus
Polaris Rising The Bastion
28
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:25:26 -
[40] - Quote
Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers.
I imagine they'll be taking a look at it if it ever gets to that point. For now though orcas now can be piloted by someone rather than just an alt sitting in a pos.
Twitter: Sullen_Decimus
Tweetfleet: @sullen_decimus
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Mai Khumm
172.0.0.1
843
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Posted - 2016.10.04 21:27:27 -
[41] - Quote
Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers. That math only applies to the new Drones only Available to the Rorqual, sure the Orca gets a nice bump, but you won't see fleets of Orcas in Highsec...
Quote: The Mining Drone II will remain largely unchanged in November, as it represents the current baseline for drone mining.
So a Maxed out Orca Pilot drones equals 1.5x the yield of the drones today... |
Ripard Teg
Ice Fire Warriors Escalating Entropy
1323
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 21:33:14 -
[42] - Quote
Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it.
aka Jester, who apparently was once Deemed Worthy To Wield The Banhammer to good effect.
|
KrazyTaco
Yellow Duck Consortium
8
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 21:35:55 -
[43] - Quote
Mai Khumm wrote:Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers. That math only applies to the new Drones only Available to the Rorqual, sure the Orca gets a nice bump, but you won't see fleets of Orcas in Highsec... Quote: The Mining Drone II will remain largely unchanged in November, as it represents the current baseline for drone mining. So a Maxed out Orca Pilot drones equals 1.5x the yield of the drones today...
At the end of Fozzie's post he mentioned
Quote:Max Yield: ~1400m3 per minute + drone travel time
A yield fit mackinaw using T2 strip miners and no mining drones pulls in 1,308m3/ minute. The drone travel time is a penalty but not really, the orca just sits on the rock it;s mining and it's virtually no delay. This puts the Orca at least at the level of a yield fit mackinaw if not slightly surpassing it. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5896
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 21:36:41 -
[44] - Quote
Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
My Skiffs can mine at ~1280m3/minute, not including mining drone yield or Orca boosts. The theoretical yield of 1400m3/min for the Orca includes a 150% bonus to mining drone yield, meaning an expected base yield of drone + skills being around 560m3/min (not including travel time). This means that my Skiffs will be pulling in around 1840m3/min not including drone travel time.
Assume for a moment that drone travel time reduces mining drone yield by about half (velocity is about 400m/s plus skills and modules, range to asteroid is around 15-25km, so travel time is around 30s each way, cycle time is around 60s, so round trip time is 60s travel, 60s mining, for a 50% duty cycle): this means drone yield for the Orca drops to about 700m3/min, while total yield for the Skiff drops to about 1560m3/min.
Do you still think the Orca is an overpowered Mackinaw replacement that needs to be nerfed?
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
44
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 21:42:57 -
[45] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids. My Skiffs can mine at ~1280m3/minute, not including mining drone yield or Orca boosts. The theoretical yield of 1400m3/min for the Orca includes a 150% bonus to mining drone yield, meaning an expected base yield of drone + skills being around 560m3/min ( not including travel time). This means that my Skiffs will be pulling in around 1840m3/min not including drone travel time. Assume for a moment that drone travel time reduces mining drone yield by about half ( velocity is about 400m/s plus skills and modules, range to asteroid is around 15-25km, so travel time is around 30s each way, cycle time is around 60s, so round trip time is 60s travel, 60s mining, for a 50% duty cycle): this means drone yield for the Orca drops to about 700m3/min, while total yield for the Skiff drops to about 1560m3/min. Do you still think the Orca is an overpowered Mackinaw replacement that needs to be nerfed?
lol a easy fix to increase yield is to have the orca follow the edge of the belt. mining the roids as it slowly goes forem one side to the other.
I LOVE THE NEW ORCA! |
Ya'akov Hebrew
Jarlhettur's Drop
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 21:49:10 -
[46] - Quote
is there a reduction in the cargo hold of the Orca? you are listing it as 30,000m3 when its current size is 96,913 m3. Is there a change ? |
Jeanne Deveroux
Society Of Mutual Adoration
2
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 21:50:19 -
[47] - Quote
Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers.
This.
Just rename it to Ultimate AFK Miner and remove all other mining ships from the game. |
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
268
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 21:54:07 -
[48] - Quote
Will the Orca inherit the ship maintenance bay restrictions of the Rorqal, being able to only store barges, exhumers and industrial ships? Currently it can carry anything. |
Gibbel Charante
Cerberus Federation Cede Nullis
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:03:28 -
[49] - Quote
Personally I'm liking the new changes. It's nice that Orca Pilots now get the opportunity to actually do something while mining. Especially considering Orca pilots cannot just sit AFK somewhere in space because now they have to ' actively' boost. These changes give the Orca Pilots something to do. |
XxUltradmbxX
Girl Friends Please Ignore League of Unaligned Master Pilots
14
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:17:36 -
[50] - Quote
is the max yield with rigs and augmeted drones or all5 with t2 drones? |
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:32:26 -
[51] - Quote
Another buff to freighter ehp o_O
I guess you really needed to go back and buff those freighters that could already fit a DC2.
The bowhead does not need more EHP. If they get caught outside highsec a little extra ehp won't help them. In highsec max tank bowheads almost never die. Go look at the killboards if you don't believe me.
The agility buff is weird too because everyone and their dog uses a mwd.
The orca is getting way too many buffs at once. Specific bays (ore, pi, whatever) have been used excessively already and mostly just remove any need to make choices when fitting a ship. This means people will be free to just fit max tank while at the same time getting more base ehp.
I realise the orca is getting more shield to make it survivable outside high sec. I think it's pretty obvious that if you want to keep the orca balanced in high sec it needs to lose way more hull to balance out the shield gain.
~just one more nerf~
|
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5896
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:34:33 -
[52] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it.
Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job.
A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet.
Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid.
Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:36:58 -
[53] - Quote
Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers.
CCP has mostly given up on balance and is trying to just release "cool stuff". See citadels in wormhole space.
Is the orca cooler now? Yes.
Is it way too powerfull? Yes.
Does, CCP care? ... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1991
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:37:23 -
[54] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:The orca is getting way too many buffs at once. Specific bays (ore, pi, whatever) have been used excessively already and mostly just remove any need to make choices when fitting a ship. This means people will be free to just fit max tank while at the same time getting more base ehp. Removing fitting concerns is exactly what they're for. They keep large bays from being able to be expanded farther than intended since they can't be modified by mods. That eliminates the need to nerf them to the point that they have to be expanded to begin with.
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:38:28 -
[55] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it.
"My 400k ehp afk mining boat isn't strong enough!" |
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:44:01 -
[56] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job. A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet. Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid. Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up.
No, no the orca needs more buffs because maybe I might potentially at some point have to interact with another player. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1991
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:46:02 -
[57] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job. A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet. Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid. Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up. No, no the orca needs more buffs because maybe I might potentially at some point have to interact with another player. Interesting response considering the complaint is about not being able to interact with an aggressing player before the NPC police arrive. |
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:52:15 -
[58] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: Interesting response considering the complaint is about not being able to interact with an aggressing player before the NPC police arrive.
We could just delay concord and facpo by 20 seconds if that's what you want.
That reminds me, when is CCP announcing the corresponding buff to ganking?
CCP Fozzie wrote:we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1991
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 22:57:21 -
[59] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Interesting response considering the complaint is about not being able to interact with an aggressing player before the NPC police arrive.
We could just delay concord and facpo by 20 seconds if that's what you want. That reminds me, when is CCP announcing the corresponding buff to ganking? CCP Fozzie wrote:we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance Or not buff Concord and instead look at whether the Orca's combat buff is intended as a gank response tool. Seems better to address the direct issue than get hyperbolic about it and pretend nerf all ganking is the only tool in the toolbox.
Is there a specific reason for not wanting the scan res? Or is this just general disagreement with the buff as a whole? |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3628
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 23:02:19 -
[60] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote: We could just delay concord and facpo by 20 seconds if that's what you want.
If we also get buffs to PG, CPU, & slots on all industrials and all barges, sure we can have slower concord. Or you know, we could consider that a single ship that wasn't heavily targeted by gankers anyway is not a significant nerf to ganking and CCP considered that that particular ship was too weak for it's class & cost. |
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 23:10:24 -
[61] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Jin Kugu wrote: We could just delay concord and facpo by 20 seconds if that's what you want.
If we also get buffs to PG, CPU, & slots on all industrials and all barges, sure we can have slower concord. Or you know, we could consider that a single ship that wasn't heavily targeted by gankers anyway is not a significant nerf to ganking and CCP considered that that particular ship was too weak for it's class & cost.
I doubt this was aimed at ganking but the orca will become way too strong in high sec. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1991
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 23:20:07 -
[62] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:I doubt this was aimed at ganking but the orca will become way too strong in high sec. The only real difference here is that there will be something worth fitting that isn't pure tank. With the active mining role and the ability to actually fit a decent sized prop mod it will actually function like a real ship rather than a punching bag.
The innate HP could be toned down if only the concept that indy ships need pigeonholed with limited slots and fitting could die in a fire. So long as they can't have options equivalent to their combat peers of course the HP and function is going to be baked in at high levels.
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 23:29:50 -
[63] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:The only real difference here is that there will be something worth fitting that isn't pure tank. With the active mining role and the ability to actually fit a decent sized prop mod it will actually function like a real ship rather than a punching bag.
The innate HP could be toned down if only the concept that indy ships need pigeonholed with limited slots and fitting could die in a fire. So long as they can't have options equivalent to their combat peers of course the HP and function is going to be baked in at high levels.
You don't need the mids or lows for mining, it's not much of a choice when the only option is tank.
The problem is that the base EHP is going up AND it gets a new mid AND it gets a bigger ore hold. Oh and the orca will be a totally viable combat ship too if with limited uses. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
835
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 23:42:15 -
[64] - Quote
Oradric Cube wrote:According to my understanding of the remote repair mechanics the orca pilot would get a concord suspect flag (yellow blinky) if they perform remote repair on a fleet member that has been attacked by another player in hisec triggering concord criminal (red blinky).
This is my understanding too UNLESS the pilot is a member of your own corp. Then you are free to repair without going suspect. Another option would be to quickly accept a duel invite from the one requiring logi -- this especially useful in case the target you wish to rep is another Orca.
EDIT: WOOOPS apparently you wouldn't even get a flag if your reptarget didn't aggress anything. Even better then \o/ Woo-hoo!
Changes are looking excellent by the way - so glad I didn't sell mine back when I didn't really need it anymore. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1991
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 23:43:30 -
[65] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:The only real difference here is that there will be something worth fitting that isn't pure tank. With the active mining role and the ability to actually fit a decent sized prop mod it will actually function like a real ship rather than a punching bag.
The innate HP could be toned down if only the concept that indy ships need pigeonholed with limited slots and fitting could die in a fire. So long as they can't have options equivalent to their combat peers of course the HP and function is going to be baked in at high levels.
You don't need the mids or lows for mining, it's not much of a choice when the only option is tank. The problem is that the base EHP is going up AND it gets a new mid AND it gets a bigger ore hold. Oh and the orca will be a totally viable combat ship too if with limited uses. The EHP is going up because it's actually going somewhere useful if you tank it or want to receive reps from friendly help. And if is a good word to use there since enough paper thin orcas have died to say it's not obvious to everyone what (or even if apparently) to fit. Even more soon when drone mining rigs/DDAs/500mn MWDs aren't laughable suggestions.
And someone's still going to fit expanders. |
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 23:49:05 -
[66] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The EHP is going up because it's actually going somewhere useful if you tank it or want to receive reps from friendly help. And if is a good word to use there since enough paper thin orcas have died to say it's not obvious to everyone what (or even if apparently) to fit. Even more soon when drone mining rigs/DDAs/500mn MWDs aren't laughable suggestions.
And someone's still going to fit expanders .
Orcas can already fit a pretty massive tank. I would be all in favour of making more of that EHP shields instead of hull but keeping the massive hull plus a massive shield boost is too much. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
835
|
Posted - 2016.10.04 23:49:38 -
[67] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote: And someone's still going to fit expanders.
Last guys who suggested triple cargo rigs and full cargohold expanders in the lows got laughed at so hard by yours truly they had to close the thread LOL
That comment of yours just gave me an afterchuckle YaY! For common sense |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1991
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 00:05:30 -
[68] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The EHP is going up because it's actually going somewhere useful if you tank it or want to receive reps from friendly help. And if is a good word to use there since enough paper thin orcas have died to say it's not obvious to everyone what (or even if apparently) to fit. Even more soon when drone mining rigs/DDAs/500mn MWDs aren't laughable suggestions.
And someone's still going to fit expanders .
Orcas can already fit a pretty massive tank. I would be all in favour of making more of that EHP shields instead of hull but keeping the massive hull plus a massive shield boost is too much. Agreed that the hull drop is pitiful compared to what was gained in shield HP and utility, but I can see the logic: It's moving to an always in the belt role, it's becoming an active miner, a logi? and a capable defender.
So more HP I guess. |
Avon Salinder
20
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 00:34:33 -
[69] - Quote
Holy crap. I was expecting more power for this ship but this might be a little bit nuts.
I foresee a future of nothing but orcas in highsec belts, all but immune to ganking and quite possibly leading to a proliferation of bots, since the ore hold is so vast a pilot can just walk away from their keyboard ... unless there are further mining changes in the works of course |
Ivan Beer
The Scope Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 00:35:39 -
[70] - Quote
Hello all.
I have a quick question or two, am and still reading the entire blog.
When will the new 'blueprints' be available?
When will the new 'skill books' be available?
Thanks in advance!
|
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zaayr
MUSE LLP
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 00:53:01 -
[71] - Quote
um, I don't know if it is me but I can already lock 5 with my orca so 7 is only a +2 |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1131
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 00:57:14 -
[72] - Quote
Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. Auto agress will allow the drones to attack any catalysts that attack the Orca. The proviso being that combat drones have to be out before being aggressed.
Attentive Orca pilots will manage that ok I think (we won't really know until some data is in).
With the +1 midslot, there's always the option to fit a sebo as opposed to extra tank, propulsion, tackle, etc.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3553
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 01:13:00 -
[73] - Quote
Came expecting a buff to ore hold. Instead got a mini FAX that will enjoy having angry sex with battleships.
If you think they are going to be good running missions however, i should point out a few things:
- They are slow as ****. Until CCP remove pockets linked by accel gates, getting them from room to room will be agony. - The dps is less than cheaper battleships. - It's drones are vulnerable when engaging targets at range.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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TomyLobo
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
146
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 01:13:24 -
[74] - Quote
As someone who uses the orca for tranporting materials for manufacturing and finished goods, I like the new bonuses but I would rather have a 100,000m3 fleet hangar and 100,000m3 ore hold compared to what is being proposed. It makes the orca more flexible to the needs of the manufacturing base not just mining. We shouldn't be forced to use freighters when moving anything above 140,000m3 and below 200,000m3. |
TomyLobo
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
146
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 01:22:55 -
[75] - Quote
Goati wrote: Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
Bring more dps?
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
45
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 01:40:13 -
[76] - Quote
TomyLobo wrote:Goati wrote: Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
Bring more dps?
People working together need to be continuesly nerfed compared to lazy people.
Once upon a time eve had great stories that happend in high sec like hulkageddon and ice interdictions. Because lazy people like you keep whining for more EHP that potential dissapeared. Now not much of note ever happens in high sec. |
IV Dystopia
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 02:28:36 -
[77] - Quote
AMAZING!!!
#deathtoexhumers
Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?
This is going to be awesome!!!!
I'm sooooo bad at this game the new Orca/ Rorqual changes might make me good...?
Maybe not, but here are some dots............................................................................... |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1131
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 02:36:06 -
[78] - Quote
IV Dystopia wrote:Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?... You can already get a cloak on an Orca.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
IV Dystopia
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 02:37:06 -
[79] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:IV Dystopia wrote:Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?... You can already get a cloak on an Orca.
/wink not a Cov Ops Cloak...sweetie... |
Sir SmashAlot
The League of Extraordinary Opportunists Intergalactic Conservation Movement
204
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 03:07:05 -
[80] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job. A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet. Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid. Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up.
Drone assists do not work in high sec for killing suspects or criminals |
|
Igzorn Buelle
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 03:14:29 -
[81] - Quote
man i cant wait for the changes. i was skeptic about the mining burst thing, but since it now make sense to sit in the belts i am more at ease. at last it will nomore be confined to a pos or citadel. |
IV Dystopia
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 03:28:08 -
[82] - Quote
Sir SmashAlot wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job. A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet. Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid. Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up. Drone assists do not work in high sec for killing suspects or criminals
Honest question without my usual snarky sarcasm.
Why does everything associated with high-sec have to devolve into ganking?
Basing the entire high-sec meta on the potential of getting or avoiding ganking is crippling.
Be creative and Jog on...(DOTS)
|
Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
464
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 04:37:53 -
[83] - Quote
Avon Salinder wrote:Holy crap. I was expecting more power for this ship but this might be a little bit nuts. I will point out the obvious here that these changes make the mackinaw and skiff obsolete. We seem to have another Svipul effect going on - ships that have been underpowered for a long time get a massive buff, ruining game balance and making other ships in a similar role pointless. I foresee a future of nothing but orcas in highsec belts, all but immune to ganking and quite possibly leading to a proliferation of bots, since the ore hold is so vast a pilot can just walk away from their keyboard ... unless there are further mining changes in the works to provide more engaging gameplay of course
I am always puzzled when i see people type afk miners.....
You need to target and assign drones/strips to the roids. This cannot be automated, unless you want your account banned. most high sec roids are quit small and eaten in minuted by a hulk or mack....so walking away and eating a belt is simply not happening, unless you are a bot or using illegal software.
As for the fear of fleets of orca's I dont think the overall boost to the mining drones will lead to that for most industrialists. Im sure you will see more of them out in the belts now, but that is because they have to be there, instead of irbiting stations or docked in a pos.
Overall I am pleased with the changes I see for the hull. I think I too would have preferred a 5/5/3 layout but the additional slots are appreciated. The increased ore bay is a very welcome addition allowing the ship to stay on field longer for support.
I do agree with the suggestion that the ship scan resolution needs to be increased, the dps is not usefull if you cannot apply it. Right now she locks about as fast as a snail.
I am a bit confused regarding the mindlink - it loses the 15% mining yield bonus, how is this being offset? |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1132
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 04:57:01 -
[84] - Quote
IV Dystopia wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:IV Dystopia wrote:Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?... You can already get a cloak on an Orca. /wink not a Cov Ops Cloak...sweetie... /throwup there's no advantage to a covops over any other cloak for the Orca.
Covops provides 2 general advantages:
1. no reduction in sub-warp speed 2. warp cloaked
In relation to 1, the Orca aligns like a brick anyway, so aligning while cloaked in order to warp and relying on a covops cloak is no better than MWD/cloak trick. Actually worse. Anyone that wants to decloak an aligning Orca would have to be dead not to be able to find a ship so big and so slow. So in terms of aligning to warp, covops !> other cloak.
If it's already cloaked and just moving, then the speed isn't critical. Being cloaked is providing the greatest aspect of risk management and all 3 cloaks are ok in that regard.
In relation to 2, again there is no major advantage. You are either already cloaked in a position you want to be in and moving, or in such a big slow ship, you'd want to be ensuring wherever you are headed is already safe enough that you don't need a cloak when warping.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
BahWeepGrahNaWeep MiniBom
Bah Weep Grah Na Weep Mini Bahm StarBlazers Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 05:40:37 -
[85] - Quote
Echo Mande wrote:Please, pretty please, add ore compression as an Orca/Rorqual ability, even if this has to be enabled with a module and skill. Ore compression in the field would IMO be much more useful, and support the fleet much better, than a larger ore hold would. It would allow the Orca/Rorqual to tractor in cans, compress and store the contents and then allow a single hauler to be far more useful hauling compressed ore/ice to station. It would also keep the command pilot more involved and in the field. Not giving compression to the Porpoise would give the Orca/Rorqual an extra force multiplier bonus over the Porpoise.
On a related note, are the command ships' ore holds accessable to the fleet, like a fleet hangar?
I completely agree with this, the orca needs compression or unlock the rorq and give it hisec access. it is a major pita to have to have 1 person dedicated to flying a cargo ship just to take ore back to station. The orca is large enough that it should have it available to it. I still do not truely understand why a rorq can not mine in hisec. I know most will say it isn't needed, but i say it i as it has compression availble to it. what would be nicer than to be able to stay out and go belt to belt until full of compressed ore. it would be alot better than ok guy, hold i gotta unload again or hey bill, need you to switch to cargo for 5 minutes. If you can compress, you can stay out longer, that simple. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1142
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 06:25:50 -
[86] - Quote
Sullen Decimus wrote:Altrue wrote:Awww nice buff, but I'm a bit sad that the SMA size remains the same. I like this assembled ship suitcase ability of the Orca. Makes for a very tiny mobile home, I'd have loved to see some thoughts given to that kind of nomadic gameplay. Making the sma bigger would start to cut into the bowhead territory. Rather than doing that though I mentioned taking a look at the barge sizes and if you read the blog they are reducing the volume of the hulk/covetor by 25%. That should make those mobile ops a little easier :) Even reducing those 2 by 25% doesn't change anything as far as the SMA goes, you can still only fit 2 of them in an Orca. Before - 4 Skiffs (100K), 2 Mack's (150K), or 2 Hulks (200K). After - Still the same, the reduction in size has no effect on hauling ships.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1142
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 06:56:01 -
[87] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Jin Kugu wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:
The EHP is going up because it's actually going somewhere useful if you tank it or want to receive reps from friendly help. And if is a good word to use there since enough paper thin orcas have died to say it's not obvious to everyone what (or even if apparently) to fit. Even more soon when drone mining rigs/DDAs/500mn MWDs aren't laughable suggestions.
And someone's still going to fit expanders .
Orcas can already fit a pretty massive tank. I would be all in favour of making more of that EHP shields instead of hull but keeping the massive hull plus a massive shield boost is too much. Agreed that the hull drop is pitiful compared to what was gained in shield HP and utility, but I can see the logic: It's moving to an always in the belt role, it's becoming an active miner, a logi? and a capable defender. So more HP I guess. As a lowsec miner - I'd liked to have seen a 3rd lowslot and T2 resists but as my orca will now have a slightly better chance of not only surviving the odd attack but have the ability to deal some DPS as a deterrent, I say these changes are just about right.
No more being held on grid for 10 minutes by a lone ceptor while his buddies travel 10 jumps to get on the kill. -- - -- - -- - -- A compression module for the Orca would be nice, having to dock it up every 16 or 17 minutes to empty it or have a freighter on standby (especially in lowsec), pretty much defeats its ongrid role.
Suggestion; Highslot module, lowsec/nulsec activation only, 300 Heavy water to activate (reduces by 25% per lvl Capital Industrial Ships) 60 second activation time, no auto repeat. Works just like its Rorqual counterpart by immobilizing the Orca for the duration of the cycle (has a nice clear animation so everyone nearby can see it is active)
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
IV Dystopia
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 08:00:17 -
[88] - Quote
Shae Tadaruwa wrote:IV Dystopia wrote:Shae Tadaruwa wrote:IV Dystopia wrote:Can I get a cloak on my Orca and maybe a BFG?... You can already get a cloak on an Orca. /wink not a Cov Ops Cloak...sweetie... /throwup there's no advantage to a covops over any other cloak for the Orca. Covops provides 2 general advantages: 1. no reduction in sub-warp speed 2. warp cloaked In relation to 1, the Orca aligns like a brick anyway, so aligning while cloaked in order to warp and relying on a covops cloak is no better than MWD/cloak trick. Actually worse. Anyone that wants to decloak an aligning Orca would have to be dead not to be able to find a ship so big and so slow. So in terms of aligning to warp, covops !> other cloak. If it's already cloaked and just moving, then the speed isn't critical. Being cloaked is providing the greatest aspect of risk management and all 3 cloaks are ok in that regard. In relation to 2, again there is no major advantage. You are either already cloaked in a position you want to be in and moving, or in such a big slow ship, you'd want to be ensuring wherever you are headed is already safe enough that you don't need a cloak when warping.
Thank you sooooo much for your wisdom and knowledge.
All I can hope is that you never stop sharing it with the Eve Community.
.......(DOT)......(DOT).....(MORE DOTS)....... |
Shae Tadaruwa
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1132
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 08:05:44 -
[89] - Quote
IV Dystopia wrote:Thank you sooooo much for your wisdom and knowledge.
All I can hope is that you never stop sharing it with the Eve Community.
.......(DOT)......(DOT).....(MORE DOTS)....... Thank you for the sentiment and I agree.
Wisdom is worth sharing.
Dracvlad - "...Your intel is free intel, all you do is pay for it..." && "...If you warp on the same path as a cloaked ship, you'll make a bookmark at exactly the same spot as the cloaky camper..."
|
Gunrunner1775
Empire Hooligans
108
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 08:34:04 -
[90] - Quote
been trying and trying, and starting to bleed from my eyes and ears
the numbers, my god the numbers
what will yield fit miners (w/ max skill + implants) be sitting at with the new version of the boosts
max skill orca + foreman link, providing boosts for 3 max yield skiffs w/ implants |
|
MrB99
Astral Mining
14
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 09:10:50 -
[91] - Quote
Fozzie -
Can you comment on what the game design thinking behind originally making the default Orca lock time so slow, and keeping it that way if it's supposed to have a new role of defending the fleet?
Thx |
Anne Sol
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 09:51:12 -
[92] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:TomyLobo wrote:Goati wrote: Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
Bring more dps? People working together need to be continuesly nerfed compared to lazy people. Once upon a time eve had great stories that happend in high sec like hulkageddon and ice interdictions. Because lazy people like you keep whining for more EHP that potential dissapeared. Now not much of note ever happens in high sec.
Well, gankers having a butt hurt due to changes in industrials, talking about ships they ain't using, and hoping to nerf industrials to make them flying pi+¦atas, because it is so great to shoot ships which can't defend themselves.
The only thing would be great in the orca changes is to have it align in 25 seconds instead of 50 and rorqual 60-ish. |
iTransport
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 11:04:36 -
[93] - Quote
As an Orca pilot that uses it as a suitcase, i love all these changes. Harder to gank and can fit more tank, increased agility, and it can now use most wormholes. The 800DPS is just the cherry on top. |
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 11:10:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP went too far, the orca does too much now, and all for just 700m. The EHP is insane, that's one thing that's crazy. The other and more ruining thing is the high yield. The orca should not have the same yield as an Exhumer. The Orca is meant to support Exhumers, not behave as a supertank afk miner.
Reduce Orca yield to be about 50% of Exhumer yield and everything will be right. Exhumers should be primary miners, not the support vessel. How anyone could not see this defies belief. |
Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3412
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 11:22:17 -
[95] - Quote
TheSmokingHertog wrote:Omnathious Deninard wrote:We are getting Ice Mining Drones? Or did we already have them? They are new, read the whole blog ;) Read it when I had more time. It looks like it will be a nice addition to the mining field.
On a separate note, when the DDAs were introduced messing with Drone ROF did nasty things to the server IIRC. Is that something that has been fixed now, and does this mean that drones could be looked at for a tweak for different ROF for different races and the DDAs go from pure Damage boosting to DPS boosting?
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
|
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
4
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 11:53:07 -
[96] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. "My 530k ehp afk mining boat isn't strong enough!" EDIT: apparently a t2 fit orca will easily hit 530k ehp, uggh
Calculations show a T2 orca can now easily reach more than 600k EHP. |
TomyLobo
Bros Before Holes The Devils' Rejects
146
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 11:58:31 -
[97] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:TomyLobo wrote:Goati wrote: Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
Bring more dps? People working together need to be continuesly nerfed compared to lazy people. Once upon a time eve had great stories that happend in high sec like hulkageddon and ice interdictions. Because lazy people like you keep whining for more EHP that potential dissapeared. Now not much of note ever happens in high sec. Spare me the BS, plz. Suicide ganking, I believe, should always be about getting a point across and the emotions that come with it, not making profit, which is what most in that community make it out to be. If fielding enough talos/tornados to kill a well fit orca is a problem for you, maybe it's time to look at another occupation? |
Elenahina
agony unleashed Agony Empire
1280
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 12:32:42 -
[98] - Quote
Sir SmashAlot wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. Guard your fleet with a fast-locking destroyer or interceptor, with sentry drones deployed by the mining fleet assisted to the guard. At a pinch you can use a scan-resolution-boosted hauler for the same job. A lateral option is to have two Orcas, each providing one command burst and permanent remote reps to the rest of the fleet. Fit for agility rather than tank, and warp out before hostiles land on grid. Fit warp core stabilisers and warp out before getting blown up. Drone assists do not work in high sec for killing suspects or criminals
The guard command works ok though, afaik. Or keep an resebo frigate in your SMA and have one of your barge pilots switch out when trouble appears. There are a multitude of ways to deal with slow lock times.
Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you.
Also, iderno
|
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2861
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 12:42:49 -
[99] - Quote
Anne Sol wrote: Well, gankers having a butt hurt due to changes in industrials, talking about ships they ain't using, and hoping to nerf industrials to make them flying pi+¦atas, because it is so great to shoot ships which can't defend themselves.
The only thing would be great in the orca changes is to have it align in 25 seconds instead of 50 and rorqual 60-ish.
Since I actually use those ships myself to great effect (not for mining) I am absolutely thrilled about those changes. Especially the Orca will be an awesome tool. The only thing that is missing is a buff to the SMA which would be a really great assets for everyone using the Orca correctly.
Also shooting ships is not the only weapon in our arsenal. Expect some increased bumping action. Really looking forward to provide some nice content for the miners with this new tools.
Praise James
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 13:14:38 -
[100] - Quote
TomyLobo wrote:Jin Kugu wrote:TomyLobo wrote:Goati wrote: Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
Bring more dps? People working together need to be continuesly nerfed compared to lazy people. Once upon a time eve had great stories that happend in high sec like hulkageddon and ice interdictions. Because lazy people like you keep whining for more EHP that potential dissapeared. Now not much of note ever happens in high sec. Spare me the BS, plz. Suicide ganking, I believe, should always be about getting a point across and the emotions that come with it, not making profit, which is what most in that community make it out to be. If fielding enough talos/tornados to kill a well fit orca is a problem for you, maybe it's time to look at another occupation?
Luckily no one cares what you think suicide ganking should be about |
|
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
47
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 13:16:03 -
[101] - Quote
Goati wrote:Jin Kugu wrote:Ripard Teg wrote:Please increase the Scan Resolution on the Orca.
Put it this way: can a high-sec Orca even lock one of the Catalysts ganking it before (a) the Orca dies, or (b) all of the Catalysts die? Can the same Orca lock and kill an untanked gank Talos before CONCORD does the job for him?
DPS is useless if you can't apply it. "My 530k ehp afk mining boat isn't strong enough!" EDIT: apparently a t2 fit orca will easily hit 530k ehp, uggh Calculations show a T2 orca can now easily reach more than 600k EHP.
Yeah, I forgot the new mid slot. This EHP race to the top is getting ridiculous. |
Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
693
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 13:22:30 -
[102] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Yeah, I forgot the new mid slot. This EHP race to the top is getting ridiculous. The EHP race is getting necessary.
Perspective: Orca does a lot of different things. But it's now being tasked with sitting pretty in belts, where it used to have better defense sitting on a station or deep safe. Miners got the Skiff, Rorq got EHP buff, Orca gets EHP buff, because they're being brought on-grid. If the opposite were happening - that they were being unchained and allowed to boost from POS's...then an EHP buff would seem ridiculous. But remember this is what balance looks like. Orca becomes a more visible, gets EHP boost to compensate.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
|
Galinius Valgani
Albertross Mining Corp. Off The Reservation.
9
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 13:29:20 -
[103] - Quote
So what is the new Gank calculation
600k EHP
1 Gank Catalyst with 600 DPS 20 seconds Concord reaction time Thats 12000 Damage Done per Catalyst before Concord.
So it will require 50 Catalyst to gank a Orca? Perhaps a ganker with more accurate numbers may update?
I Think otherwise it is a bit too abstract if the Orca is to strong or to weak. I do not want to gank...I simply want to estimate the new power of the Orca properly. |
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
825
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 14:47:20 -
[104] - Quote
Galinius Valgani wrote:So it will require 50 Catalyst to gank a Orca?
It will require 1 Stabber with an oversized MWD to bump the Orca 50km off the belt within 60 seconds where his Mining Drones are next to useless. That's 15m ISK invest. Next we will see a website coming up... it will be called "minerBUMPING.com" and those bumpers will celebrate that they can bump Orcas out off the belts in highsec 24/7 without criminal flag, without sec loss, without CONCORD showing up and - to talk about balancing - WITHOUT ANYTHING THE ORCA PILOT CAN DO TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. Oh wait - the website already exists - they have just forgotten where they come from.
500k eHP is next to useless if you are 50km away from the belt and can't warp for as long the bumper don't want him to warp.
Brain-in-a-box is a nice thing, unfortunately most people forget to put it back into their heads when crying about ungankable Orcas in highsec. This is EVE - you don't need guns to ruin a miners day.
|
Coelomate
Gilliomate Corp
58
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:05:38 -
[105] - Quote
These changes look really exciting - lots of new options and moving parts, which will make for fun theorycrafting and experimentation. Thanks CCP!
Re: the Orca's ore drones: The blog's 1,400m3 max yield number probably assumes use of the new faction mining drones (augmented mining drones). Without stats for those, it might be impossible to do the math. So the number will be lower with just mining drone IIs.
As others have noticed, 1,400m3 yield for the Orca looks really strong until you realize that (a) mining drone flight time is currently quite low (drone nav computer orca new meta?), and (b) drones don't receive any mining command boosts, so you have to compare the Orca's drone yield peak against boosted barges/exhumers.
A hulk with Orca boosts easily clears 2,000m3 with no drone flight time worries, so I doubt you'll see a lot of multiboxed orca mining fleets. I think the Orca's yield number is in a really good place, as it means an Orca will almost always increase total yield of the fleet, rather than only increasing total yield after fleet size gets above ~4 pilots. Small mining ops or players multiboxing just 2 or 3 clients now have more interesting and expensive tools at their disposal, which is great.
Given the number of roles the Orca can now occupy, fits will be really interesting. Max tank will still be the 'correct' choice in many applications, but you'll see some silly things done to maximize travel time, cargo capacity, and drone mining - which should provide plenty of ganking content. Just like with freighters, choice is good, as it means people can play correctly to increase safety/income or play recklessly and risk the consequences.
Love,
~Coelomate
|
Lady Ayeipsia
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
1208
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:14:10 -
[106] - Quote
I use my Orca in a slightly non traditional sense... As a mobile traveling base for my exploration character. It's cheaper and more useful than a bowhead. He has never used the ore hold but instead the cargo bay, fleet hangar, and ship bay. In the ship bay he fits a HAC, a Cruiser, a T2 covert ops probe ship, and a T2 faction frig for smaller sites.
Now granted, some of the changes to the ship are wonderful. However, is there any chance we could get a small bonus to probing lumped in with the boosts to survey scan? It does not have to be a boost to probe strength but maybe a role bonus to probe scan speed? This boost could apply to all types and help scan down gas sites faster. |
Zhul Chembull
Booze and Blues inc. Soviet-Union
108
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:22:11 -
[107] - Quote
Avon Salinder wrote:Holy crap. I was expecting more power for this ship but this might be a little bit nuts. I will point out the obvious here that these changes make the mackinaw and skiff obsolete. We seem to have another Svipul effect going on - ships that have been underpowered for a long time get a massive buff, ruining game balance and making other ships in a similar role pointless. I foresee a future of nothing but orcas in highsec belts, all but immune to ganking and quite possibly leading to a proliferation of bots, since the ore hold is so vast a pilot can just walk away from their keyboard ... unless there are further mining changes in the works to provide more engaging gameplay of course
Wrong. Those of us with multiple accounts and have mined for a decade will still only field one at a time with the mining ships. People will be poaching, so you have to make your losses acceptable when the inevitable cyno is lit and you are dropped. People are far more organized than these boards realize. I promise you a well fit T3 will still blow these up no problem. |
Zhul Chembull
Booze and Blues inc. Soviet-Union
108
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:24:49 -
[108] - Quote
Jeanne Deveroux wrote:Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers. This. Just rename it to Ultimate AFK Miner and remove all other mining ships from the game.
Drama drum roll. Just for you. You do not play the same game I do obviously. |
Zhul Chembull
Booze and Blues inc. Soviet-Union
108
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:29:49 -
[109] - Quote
Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers.
It is not. It will get ganked in high sec and killed. It will be ganked in low/null and be killed. Just because its not the most useless ship on the board now means nothing. People are organized and cant wait to get on a kill that is halfway challenging. I am an indy guy and cant wait to get in on some of these juicy kills myself. Very cool changes. Believe me, there will be counter flames soon saying they are not strong enough, players are far more crafty than realized. All in all, it is a good balance. |
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
7
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:33:05 -
[110] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers. It is not. It will get ganked in high sec and killed. It will be ganked in low/null and be killed. Just because its not the most useless ship on the board now means nothing. People are organized and cant wait to get on a kill that is halfway challenging. I am an indy guy and cant wait to get in on some of these juicy kills myself. Very cool changes. Believe me, there will be counter flames soon saying they are not strong enough, players are far more crafty than realized. All in all, it is a good balance.
Only non fit ones will be ganked and killed. A properly fit one will have 600k ehp. Nobody is going to suicide gank them with that much HP, just as they don't suicide gank the 400k EHP properly fit orcas we have now.
The only counter to this Orca set up is bumping it. As it's the only counter, there's going to be a lot of mad players getting bumped all over the place. |
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Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite CODE.
2863
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:45:10 -
[111] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:WITHOUT ANYTHING THE ORCA PILOT CAN DO TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. Well that is a bit exaggerated isn't it? I mean you can always just gank the bumper, they have a lot less EHP than an Orca. As someone else already mentioned in this thread:
TomyLobo wrote:If fielding enough talos/tornados to kill a well fit orca stabber is a problem for you, maybe it's time to look at another occupation?
the Code ALWAYS wins
Elite PvPer, #74 in 2014
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Black Pedro
Yammerschooner
2799
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:47:32 -
[112] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:Galinius Valgani wrote:So it will require 50 Catalyst to gank a Orca?
It will require 1 Stabber with an oversized MWD to bump the Orca 50km off the belt within 60 seconds where his Mining Drones are next to useless. That's 15m ISK invest. Next we will see a website coming up... it will be called "miner BUMPING.com" and those bumpers will celebrate that they can bump Orcas out off the belts in highsec 24/7 without criminal flag, without sec loss, without CONCORD showing up and - to talk about balancing - WITHOUT ANYTHING THE ORCA PILOT CAN DO TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. Oh wait - the website already exists - they have just forgotten where they come from. 500k eHP is next to useless if you are 50km away from the belt and can't warp for as long the bumper don't want him to warp. Brain-in-a-box is a nice thing, unfortunately most people forget to put it back into their heads when crying about ungankable Orcas in highsec. This is EVE - you don't need guns to ruin a miners day. This is true, bumping will be a thing, and probably a pretty entertaining thing given how much more rage it generally induces in highsec miners.
But that number of 50 Catalysts probably should merit a second look. That amount of DPS is almost unseen in highsec, even in current freighter ganking fleets. 50 people don't get together to do anything in highsec, especially to gank a mining ship at a loss. These things literally won't die.
That's fine if that is CCPs intention to make these things ungankable (which highsec miscreants will also exploit to carry out risk-free logistics and ship-switching), but that means there is nothing you can do to explode one you take issue with unless you can muster a null-sec sized fleet. Are you sure you want these things to be that safe CCP?
In any case, this may all be moot. If Rorqual adoption becomes wide-spread, the ore market is in for a massive realignment with highsec miners ending up on the (very) short end of the stick. If highsec mining income is cut by a factor of two or four by fleets of super-boosted Rorquals out-competing them, then even multiboxing fleets might not be worth the time to run in highsec and we may not see anyone in the belts at all but new players mining for peanuts. I guess ice mining will still be a thing though.
Interesting times are indeed ahead.
The 8 Golden Rules of Eve
Why Do They Gank?
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Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
826
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 15:54:33 -
[113] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:As someone else already mentioned in this thread: TomyLobo wrote:If fielding enough talos/tornados to kill a well fit orca stabber is a problem for you, maybe it's time to look at another occupation? We did it during the last Ice Interdiction where Bumpers where much more of a threat than Goonswarms Catalysts. Yet there are already several 'pro-gankers' donating high-quality tears to the new afk-miner-masterrace without even considering that bumping is much more annoying than ganking. I'm not asking for a bump-resistance. I think the Orca boni are a bit overpowered and will get adjusted early next year. Ofc, this is EVE, I'm trying to exploit as much of its power until it is nerfed.
I consider sth balanced when both sides - gankers and miners - share tears :) Alphaclone Bumpers will have a lot of fun while some bored Orca pilots will get some ISK for their skills. Fair play. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
93
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 16:36:27 -
[114] - Quote
There are so many calls for the Orca to have compression in this thread. I have a slightly better idea, a deployable compression array similar to the MTU or mobile depot. POS compression arrays will be going the way of the dodo soon enough. I recommend taking the POS compression array feature set, make it deployable and give it the same reinforcement mechanics as a mobile depot.
Doing this would: - Provide for a perceived need (compression in the belts)
- And supplement multiple hulls (mining frigates, mining barges, exhumers, the Porpoise and the Orca)
- While creating conflict drivers (gank/war targets)
It could possible even revive the mining battleship
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Darrien
Ouroboros Logistics
9
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 17:07:15 -
[115] - Quote
Rapscallion Jones wrote:There are so many calls for the Orca to have compression in this thread. I have a slightly better idea, a deployable compression array similar to the MTU or mobile depot. POS compression arrays will be going the way of the dodo soon enough. I recommend taking the POS compression array feature set, make it deployable and give it the same reinforcement mechanics as a mobile depot. Doing this would: - Provide for a perceived need (compression in the belts)
- And supplement multiple hulls (mining frigates, mining barges, exhumers, the Porpoise and the Orca)
- While creating conflict drivers (gank/war targets)
It could possible even revive the mining battleship
With all the public Citadels dotted about these days, can't really see the need for the Orca to have compression. |
Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
93
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 17:25:32 -
[116] - Quote
Darrien wrote:Rapscallion Jones wrote:There are so many calls for the Orca to have compression in this thread. I have a slightly better idea, a deployable compression array similar to the MTU or mobile depot. POS compression arrays will be going the way of the dodo soon enough. I recommend taking the POS compression array feature set, make it deployable and give it the same reinforcement mechanics as a mobile depot. Doing this would: - Provide for a perceived need (compression in the belts)
- And supplement multiple hulls (mining frigates, mining barges, exhumers, the Porpoise and the Orca)
- While creating conflict drivers (gank/war targets)
It could possible even revive the mining battleship With all the public Citadels dotted about these days, can't really see the need for the Orca to have compression.
I think you missed my point...(read the bold underline) |
Careby
294
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 17:28:01 -
[117] - Quote
Rapscallion Jones wrote:There are so many calls for the Orca to have compression in this thread. I have a slightly better idea, a deployable compression array similar to the MTU or mobile depot. POS compression arrays will be going the way of the dodo soon enough. I recommend taking the POS compression array feature set, make it deployable and give it the same reinforcement mechanics as a mobile depot.
In my opinion the first thing that needs to be done to ore compression is to give citadel owners the option to turn it off or charge for it. It's currently free and can't be disabled as long as the reprocessing service is running. This makes no sense to me. If compression adds value, why is it free? And if it's going to continue to be free and widely available, why not add it to the Orca? Even gankers should support it because an Orca with a full hold of compressed ore will make a very fine killmail.
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Rapscallion Jones
Omnibus Solutions
93
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 18:39:05 -
[118] - Quote
Careby wrote:Rapscallion Jones wrote:.... I have a slightly better idea, a deployable compression array similar to the MTU or mobile depot... In my opinion the first thing that needs to be done to ore compression is to give citadel owners the option to turn it off or charge for it. It's currently free and can't be disabled as long as the reprocessing service is running. This makes no sense to me. If compression adds value, why is it free? And if it's going to continue to be free and widely available, why not add it to the Orca? Even gankers should support it because an Orca with a full hold of compressed ore will make a very fine killmail.
I don't disagree with your points regarding the citadels compression abilities, tbh I don't understand why CCP did this. I say remove compression from citadels completely and implement my suggestion or something similar to it. It is a content promoter where as compression in citadels does nothing but provide a free service to freeloaders. |
Zhul Chembull
Booze and Blues inc. Soviet-Union
109
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 18:52:42 -
[119] - Quote
Goati wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids.
Why even use Exhumer any more? Orca costs 2-3 times more sure, but you only pay that once. You can be sure it won't be ganked if you know how to fit it, especially with the the new EHP.
I think CCP have gotten carried away and made it way too powerful. If you must keep the mining abilities, it should be able to mine at max about 50% the rate of an exhumer - that way it's more worth to mine in Exhumers and we don't get the ridiculous situation of people choosing Orcas over Exhumers as primary miners as their yields are the same.
Seriously, with Exhumer level yield and 187k m3 ore hold, who wouldn't spend 2-3 times more and just mine in an orca instead of an Exhumer? Fit right It will be near ungankable and is an afk miners dream, crazy. It is beyond a joke.
The solution; make the Orca max personal mining ability be at about 50% of that of an Exhumer. Still worth an additional mining for the fleet without taking the role as best/primary miner away from Exhumers. It is not. It will get ganked in high sec and killed. It will be ganked in low/null and be killed. Just because its not the most useless ship on the board now means nothing. People are organized and cant wait to get on a kill that is halfway challenging. I am an indy guy and cant wait to get in on some of these juicy kills myself. Very cool changes. Believe me, there will be counter flames soon saying they are not strong enough, players are far more crafty than realized. All in all, it is a good balance. Only non fit ones will be ganked and killed. A properly fit one will have 600k ehp. Nobody is going to suicide gank them with that much HP, just as they don't suicide gank the 400k EHP properly fit orcas we have now. The only counter to this Orca set up is bumping it. As it's the only counter, there's going to be a lot of mad players getting bumped all over the place.
Ill link the km when it happens. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1992
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 19:39:32 -
[120] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Agreed that the hull drop is pitiful compared to what was gained in shield HP and utility, but I can see the logic: It's moving to an always in the belt role, it's becoming an active miner, a logi? and a capable defender.
So more HP I guess.
As a lowsec miner - I'd liked to have seen a 3rd lowslot and T2 resists but as my orca will now have a slightly better chance of not only surviving the odd attack but have the ability to deal some DPS as a deterrent, I say these changes are just about right. No more being held on grid for 10 minutes by a lone ceptor while his buddies travel 10 jumps to get on the kill. -- - -- - -- - -- A compression module for the Orca would be nice, having to dock it up every 16 or 17 minutes to empty it or have a freighter on standby (especially in lowsec), pretty much defeats its ongrid role. Suggestion; Highslot module, lowsec/nulsec activation only, 300 Heavy water to activate (reduces by 25% per lvl Capital Industrial Ships) 60 second activation time, no auto repeat. Works just like its Rorqual counterpart by immobilizing the Orca for the duration of the cycle (has a nice clear animation so everyone nearby can see it is active) Sure, as i said the role is changing a great deal. I just think the drop in hull HP could have been more substantial from a highsec perspective since the shield HP is all that much more valuable typically. I'm not saying a 1:1 relation of shield gained to hull lost of anything, but there could be a slightly greater sacrifice for the full package gained.
Either way it's IMHO not enough to be worth fighting over.
|
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1992
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 19:44:59 -
[121] - Quote
Ima Wreckyou wrote:Samsara Toldya wrote:WITHOUT ANYTHING THE ORCA PILOT CAN DO TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. Well that is a bit exaggerated isn't it? I mean you can always just gank the bumper, they have a lot less EHP than an Orca. As someone else already mentioned in this thread: TomyLobo wrote:If fielding enough talos/tornados to kill a well fit orca stabber is a problem for you, maybe it's time to look at another occupation? Question from someone who's not terribly familiar with ganking: How many tornado pilots does it take to effectively deter 1 bumper with 3 bump stabbers in a system ready to go in succession?
Seems unless the bumper is the kind soul who waits for the criminal timer to expire you're going to have to roll characters on anti-bumping duty before even factoring sec status issues over time. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5899
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 19:55:16 -
[122] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Interesting response considering the complaint is about not being able to interact with an aggressing player before the NPC police arrive.
We could just delay concord and facpo by 20 seconds if that's what you want. That reminds me, when is CCP announcing the corresponding buff to ganking? CCP Fozzie wrote:we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance
Allowing the target to shoot back/first is a buff to ganking.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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MrB99
Astral Mining
14
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Posted - 2016.10.05 20:01:32 -
[123] - Quote
I'm reading all these posts about the sky is falling from gankers because the EHP is up on the Orca, yet all the recent killboard examples of high EHP Orca kills in high sec now are during war, not ganks. All the observed ganks are on Orca configs with other fitting tradeoffs like max cargo. The EHP change seems like a zero negative impact change on observed actual high sec gameplay.
Bumping will be a much bigger source of harassment if CCP still doesn't fix it. It's a 1-account, 1-player activity that can stop a group activity. Now bumping with a single Stabber or Mach can prevent an Orca pilot from doing their role as a hauler. (You can bump an Orca 100km+) With the November mechanics, optimized bumping will prevent Orca pilots from doing their roles as hauler, fleet booster and maybe the new roles of fleet defender or miner. (Both a stabber and mach can bump an Orca out of the new 50km max range for boosting -- and potentially too far for drones to operate in a usable way). An Orca pilot will mine or do other gameplay if all their roles are impossible to perform when another player is disrupting the fleet.
All the calls to suicide the bumper assumes miners have 10-50 suicide cat accounts waiting to login and come to the rescue, and that they can chase down a speed-optimized bumping ship. CCP will have to give these gank accounts to miners for free if they want that to be normal gameplay and the counter to minerbumping. |
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
12
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 21:27:37 -
[124] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:A compression module for the Orca would be nice, having to dock it up every 16 or 17 minutes to empty it or have a freighter on standby (especially in lowsec), pretty much defeats its ongrid role.
Suggestion; Highslot module, lowsec/nulsec activation only, 300 Heavy water to activate (reduces by 25% per lvl Capital Industrial Ships) 60 second activation time, no auto repeat. Works just like its Rorqual counterpart by immobilizing the Orca for the duration of the cycle (has a nice clear animation so everyone nearby can see it is active)
Is 17 minutes factoring in the increased orehold?
I'd prefer a deployable and non-scoopable mobile compressor. (consumables are good for business). Which would also give soloist potential usage if it was small enough in cargo. Destoryable similar to the mobile tractor - so agressors can get action. If it was scoopable, then a compression loss at 1 in 6. |
Echo Mande
83
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 21:48:53 -
[125] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:A compression module for the Orca would be nice, having to dock it up every 16 or 17 minutes to empty it or have a freighter on standby (especially in lowsec), pretty much defeats its ongrid role.
Suggestion; Highslot module, lowsec/nulsec activation only, 300 Heavy water to activate (reduces by 25% per lvl Capital Industrial Ships) 60 second activation time, no auto repeat. Works just like its Rorqual counterpart by immobilizing the Orca for the duration of the cycle (has a nice clear animation so everyone nearby can see it is active) Is 17 minutes factoring in the increased orehold? I'd prefer a deployable and non-scoopable mobile compressor. (consumables are good for business). Which would also give soloist potential usage if it was small enough in cargo. Destoryable similar to the mobile tractor - so agressors can get action. If it was scoopable, then a compression loss at 1 in 6.
That 17 minutes is including the increased ore hold. Currently I can use 4 non-maxed hulks to fill a skill-V Miasmos (63K m3 ore hold) in about 5 cycles (350 seconds).
The idea of a mobile compressor unit, expendable or otherwise, is an interesting one. I for one would probably use one quite a bit.
Wallet remarks everywhere
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croakroach
Free Candy Get In The Van Free Candy Get In The Van Alliance
24
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Posted - 2016.10.05 22:30:10 -
[126] - Quote
Soldarius wrote:At a price point of 700M isk, I feel like this ship gives a lot for the cost/risk.
I have to agree. An 800 DPS, mining command ship?
I would rather see it become more defensive, something along the lines of:
Role bonus: 100% bonus to drone mining yield - Drop this, that's what mining barges are for. 100% bonus to drone damage - Drop this Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 40 / 50 - Buff this to maybe T2 levels? Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 200 (+125) - Leave at 50 Capacitor: Just under cap stability with T2 X-Large shield booster and 2x invul. ~ 2k DPS tank? Maybe remote shield transfer amount bonus too?
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Omnathious Deninard
Novis Initiis
3412
|
Posted - 2016.10.05 23:04:15 -
[127] - Quote
For anyone who has not checked, 800DPS is with 'Augmented' Hammerheads and 2 Officer DDAs
If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
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Avon Salinder
20
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Posted - 2016.10.05 23:22:51 -
[128] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:
I am always puzzled when i see people type afk miners.....
You need to target and assign drones/strips to the roids. This cannot be automated, unless you want your account banned. most high sec roids are quit small and eaten in minuted by a hulk or mack....so walking away and eating a belt is simply not happening, unless you are a bot or using illegal software.
You have obviously never done ice mining, where you turn on your harvesters and leave it for half an hour, because each iceteroid has 100-130(ish) units of ice in it. And hey look, new ice mining drones! An orca will be able to sit there til the iceteroid simply vanishes, and still have room to eat another one.
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Avon Salinder
20
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Posted - 2016.10.05 23:32:42 -
[129] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Avon Salinder wrote:Holy crap. I was expecting more power for this ship but this might be a little bit nuts. I will point out the obvious here that these changes make the mackinaw and skiff obsolete. We seem to have another Svipul effect going on - ships that have been underpowered for a long time get a massive buff, ruining game balance and making other ships in a similar role pointless. I foresee a future of nothing but orcas in highsec belts, all but immune to ganking and quite possibly leading to a proliferation of bots, since the ore hold is so vast a pilot can just walk away from their keyboard ... unless there are further mining changes in the works to provide more engaging gameplay of course Wrong. Those of us with multiple accounts and have mined for a decade will still only field one at a time with the mining ships. People will be poaching, so you have to make your losses acceptable when the inevitable cyno is lit and you are dropped. People are far more organized than these boards realize. I promise you a well fit T3 will still blow these up no problem. You seem to have missed the part where I was referring to HIGHSEC , where it's impossible to light a cyno, champ. |
Amarisen Gream
Divine Demise
292
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 02:36:04 -
[130] - Quote
Oradric Cube wrote:According to http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Timers#Remote_assistance and my understanding of the remote repair mechanics the orca pilot would get a concord suspect flag (yellow blinky) if they perform remote repair on a fleet member that has been attacked by another player in hisec triggering concord criminal (red blinky). Saying it another way: Player A is piloting an orca in hisec with Player B piloting a retriever when Player C arrives in a catalyst. None of them have any timers yet. Player C then attacks Player B triggering concord response and a concord criminal (red blinky) flag on Player C. Player B is taking damage (but not dead yet) and has a Capsuleer Log-Off Timer and I believe a Limited Engagement Timer with Player C. If Player A has remote repair modules fitted and activates them on Player B (requiring a safety setting of yellow) then I believe Player A will inherit the Capsuleer Log-Off Timer, the Limited Engagement Timer with Player C and I think Player A will also get a concord suspect timer (yellow blinky). Am I correct in my understanding? What about the new boost mechanism? How will it interact with the existing timer system? If in my example Player A did not use remote repair modules at all but instead hit Player B with a boost pulse/tick would Player A inherit the timers or not?
Not sure if it has been answered - remote assist modules don't require sefty settings to be anything but green. And when it fleet, if one party member is attacked everyone in fleet has the right to attack. But if I understand it right concord is only flagged for the original hostile action.
It will come down to playing a game of suspect timers to keep Conrod from aggressing the aggressor
"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger
All of his fury and rage.
He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels"
- The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1
DIDE- is open to new members
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3638
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 02:46:09 -
[131] - Quote
Amarisen Gream wrote:
Not sure if it has been answered - remote assist modules don't require sefty settings to be anything but green. And when it fleet, if one party member is attacked everyone in fleet has the right to attack. But if I understand it right concord is only flagged for the original hostile action.
It will come down to playing a game of suspect timers to keep Conrod from aggressing the aggressor
Very very wrong. You don't have a clue about high sec mechanics. |
Rin Vocaloid2
Dust University Ivy League
36
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Posted - 2016.10.06 03:27:07 -
[132] - Quote
Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick! My Orca! |
Jalxan
Spoopy Newbies Brave Collective
38
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 05:09:24 -
[133] - Quote
Oh....my....gods! *Tears of joy* My beautiful ships! I was so afraid of the changes....but they're....perfect! Now I can actually fit the MWD WITHOUT implants (or sacrificing cargohold)! I can add a better tank, and maybe even run both! I can run even more links, or tractor beams or, or, or...
And they even reduced the mass! As a wormholer, who uses Orcas for transport... that's a lifesaver. Thank you, CCP! I look forward to it! |
Grookshank
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
125
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 06:12:25 -
[134] - Quote
You sure you want to make a miner the strongest combat battleship? |
Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
465
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 07:37:21 -
[135] - Quote
Avon Salinder wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:
I am always puzzled when i see people type afk miners.....
You need to target and assign drones/strips to the roids. This cannot be automated, unless you want your account banned. most high sec roids are quit small and eaten in minuted by a hulk or mack....so walking away and eating a belt is simply not happening, unless you are a bot or using illegal software.
You have obviously never done ice mining, where you turn on your harvesters and leave it for half an hour, because each iceteroid has 100-130(ish) units of ice in it. And hey look, new ice mining drones! An orca will be able to sit there til the iceteroid simply vanishes, and still have room to eat another one.
actually many times...and anyone worth half their salt is using skiffs n procs to mine out entire ice anoms in an hour or less. So a slow orca with drones will get a couple blocks before the procs n skiffs have chewed the rest. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
243
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 08:00:36 -
[136] - Quote
Goati wrote:KrazyTaco wrote:Has any thought been given to the implications for NPC corp miners in High Sec now being able to essentially use the Orca as a near invincible default mining platform instead of the traditional barge / exhumer?
Given that the Orca will remain around the same price and it can now mine just as well as a yield fit Mackinaw, receives an extra 33k ehp base, and has a huge ore hold, what will stop a proliferation of Orcas that can't be engaged with in any meaningful way than by all but the largest gank fleets in High Sec? Orcas are very easy to bump. And I see they made the align even worse, by quite a lot. A few bumpers could knock any orcas out of the belt very quickly. No
CCP Fozzie wrote: Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 60 / 0.26 (+0.1) / 150,000,000 (-100,000,000) / 54.07s (-1.38)
Align time: - 1.38 sec. Inwarp time with mwd=10sec.
Edit: What happend to the plans with the unbumpable warp after 3 minutes. Any new information about this? Or is it online and i didn't noticed it?
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
243
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 08:39:15 -
[137] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Mara Rinn wrote:Goati wrote:Who else thinks the Orca is way too powerful now? The idea that it can mine at the rate of an exhumer, with a 187.5k m3 ore hold, with huge EHP, it's just ridiulous. Orca is meant to be a support ship, not an exhumer equivalent mining vessel on steroids. My Skiffs can mine at ~1280m3/minute, not including mining drone yield or Orca boosts. The theoretical yield of 1400m3/min for the Orca includes a 150% bonus to mining drone yield, meaning an expected base yield of drone + skills being around 560m3/min ( not including travel time). This means that my Skiffs will be pulling in around 1840m3/min not including drone travel time. Assume for a moment that drone travel time reduces mining drone yield by about half ( velocity is about 400m/s plus skills and modules, range to asteroid is around 15-25km, so travel time is around 30s each way, cycle time is around 60s, so round trip time is 60s travel, 60s mining, for a 50% duty cycle): this means drone yield for the Orca drops to about 700m3/min, while total yield for the Skiff drops to about 1560m3/min. Do you still think the Orca is an overpowered Mackinaw replacement that needs to be nerfed? lol a easy fix to increase yield is to have the orca follow the edge of the belt. mining the roids as it slowly goes forem one side to the other. I LOVE THE NEW ORCA! If this works and the orca comes close at mining with drones to a boosted exhumer without drones, then i will replace my 5 skiffs with orcas and don't think about mining burst range any more. How long would it take, to fill up one orca then. Can somebody do the math please? I'm not god at this.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Gosch Ti
The Scope Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2016.10.06 10:17:57 -
[138] - Quote
Assuming 187.5k m-¦ ore bay and 1400m-¦/minute: 133.9 minutes without traveling time
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Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
846
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 11:08:00 -
[139] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:For anyone who has not checked, 800DPS is with 'Augmented' Hammerheads and 2 Officer DDAs
You sound as if people don't have 4 orca's fit like this laying around already lol.....
Like the EHP rants too. They'd be the 2 to 3 t2 rigs hull tank ones. Bulkhead and DCU II lows as well....no cargo mods for you. With shield dual tank so mids also shot for anything else.
These live to haul, and are gimped for anything else. With the downside carrying capacity is reduced. You can 5 the rig skill but pyfa/eft says not a do or die train really. YOu've gimped, accept and move on really.
These also extended from the success of gankers. They want to whine, they should not have been as effective really. With the changes and these meant to be on belts ccp realized for 0.0 use if a t1 dessie party well run can kill these little issue....they needed some more ass to soak up the hits for 0.0 where hunters spend a bit more to get more dps.
They don't have concord to worry about....they splurge on shooty ships. empire is just getting the side benefit of an Orca meant to not be easy killing for 0.0 roams will also be a pita in empire as well. CCP had no choice here really. Orca in its current state would have issues out in the open.
heard the 700 mil rants. These if they release as is in blog won't be 700 mil ships. This is a limited production area. Sellers can set the prices. JNot all indy markets are cut throat rock bottom making a few mil over production costs. Especially the ones like this were production is complicated.
If this orca delivers even half as well as I expect it too prices may rise and yes...people will pay. Hell not even a miner and eyeing funky stuff to do with my orca (nice for moving around a small ship pve setups like pirate cruiser or t3) if all these changes reach gold disk stage. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3556
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 11:32:36 -
[140] - Quote
Omnathious Deninard wrote:For anyone who has not checked, 800DPS is with 'Augmented' Hammerheads and 2 Officer DDAs
To put it in relative terms, it has the same effective drone dps as a domi/geddon/rattler before mods with medium drones.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
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Drigo Segvian
Black Fox Marauders
21
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 11:39:58 -
[141] - Quote
If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
846
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 13:03:02 -
[142] - Quote
Drigo Segvian wrote:If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP
I think some are just mad because they abused ship swap out ability under shady mechanics that got fixed. This new orca...would make that so much better. Shame they wore out that welcome already long ago lol. Why I am taking there rants with a grain of salt. They used to love the crap out of orca. For the EHP it has even now. mixed with refit/reship.
They got greedy, had a questionable mechanic skylined to wtf levels....it met nerf bat. If they didn't abuse that ability they could have maybe kept it in some way and could enjoy new and improved orca.
Inb4 not all gankesrs used this. Enough did to invalidate the EHP is/will be BS. This didn't become an issue till after they abused a mechanic and had it taken away. Don't abuse mechanics, maybe you get to keep nice toys the moral to the story there. I know some other forums I have seen combat orca mentioned. Lets not mess this up guys as she is looking to get real nice soon, remember the moral above lol. Use it but not to the point CCP goes umm, yeah, nerf lol. |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
836
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 20:56:18 -
[143] - Quote
Doubt you can keep this thing in a belt though. Won't be long before it's bumping so hard it's drones can't even catch up to the bay and you're stranded with no boosts, no mining and no place to go.
We might see an uptick in bumperinoes... and by the time there'll be one in any ole' belt, at least it would be worth my time suicideXploding all dem machs.
Will keep a close eye on it, to see how this plays out ... |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1996
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 21:05:25 -
[144] - Quote
I pretty much certain that will be the case unless people forego boosts in highsec. That's just going to be a side effect of targets being visible.
I'm still in the dark on the feasibility of counter-bump ganking but just looking at it it doesn't seem worthwhile compared to just not having a booster. |
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 21:41:15 -
[145] - Quote
These new Orcas are so ridicluous that I can tell you now that they will be bumped out of belts on a constant basis. Due to boosts now required to be within 45km to be received it will be very easy to keep anyone using these new Orcas as a booster/hauler/miner (bloody ridiculous) from being of any use at all.
If bumped away the new Orca can't mine, can't boost, and can't haul. That's the one counter to this new ridiculous booster/super hauler/miner all in one. It's not ganker tears we're going to see, it's going to be miner tears galore. |
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
13
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 21:50:03 -
[146] - Quote
Goati wrote:These new Orcas are so ridicluous that I can tell you now that they will be bumped out of belts on a constant basis. Due to boosts now required to be within 45km to be received it will be very easy to keep anyone using these new Orcas as a booster/hauler/miner (bloody ridiculous) from being of any use at all.
If bumped away the new Orca can't mine, can't boost, and can't haul. That's the one counter to this new ridiculous booster/super hauler/miner all in one. It's not ganker tears we're going to see, it's going to be miner tears galore.
No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?
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Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
836
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 21:50:53 -
[147] - Quote
Yeap. Pretty much. Can't safelog either-- but don't dare to call it 'broken' on the forums or you'll be stigmatised Bear For Life ;-) Blowing them up may not be the most elegant solution and there sure won't be any loot in it, but at least it looks good on the KB. Until they start winning the ISK war with, say, plated bumpVentures or something. Stay tuned, folks! |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
836
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 21:51:48 -
[148] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote: No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?
What's a "GSC" |
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
9
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 22:11:55 -
[149] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Goati wrote:These new Orcas are so ridicluous that I can tell you now that they will be bumped out of belts on a constant basis. Due to boosts now required to be within 45km to be received it will be very easy to keep anyone using these new Orcas as a booster/hauler/miner (bloody ridiculous) from being of any use at all.
If bumped away the new Orca can't mine, can't boost, and can't haul. That's the one counter to this new ridiculous booster/super hauler/miner all in one. It's not ganker tears we're going to see, it's going to be miner tears galore. No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?
Lol, good luck if you think that will help save a single Orca from bumping.
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Sylvia Kildare
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
15
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 22:40:09 -
[150] - Quote
Darrien wrote:Sizeof Void wrote:Love it, but isn't it maybe a tad bit OP?
I'm pretty sure that it could solo run most L4 missions AFK, with that amount of drone damage, coupled with that much tank.
And, with the bonused tractor range/speed, extra highs and large cargo hold, it could also easily do its own looting & salvaging. Missions is a relatively easy fix, just remove there gate access, although it'll make mission miners sad I assume.
There are missions that don't have gates, though, so... |
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
243
|
Posted - 2016.10.06 22:45:58 -
[151] - Quote
Brokk Witgenstein wrote:Penance Toralen wrote: No it's already beaten. The orca pilot can just dump and anchor a dozen GSC in a sphere around the ship forming a cage. No bumping put. What's the next plan?
What's a "GSC" Giant secure container, i guess.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Elijah Boondock
Murphys-Law
2
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Posted - 2016.10.07 00:52:59 -
[152] - Quote
I'm concerned for a few reasons. > Lack of system wide mining bonus > Battle mining fleets using the orca and skiffs that are impossible to kill. > How about a mining increase to exhumers? so everyone that wasted training to mining barge level V for the hulk which got Raped Nerf-ed can have it back again. I use to be able to mine 1,100 m3 with three laser's and have a cargohold over 15k so i didn't need a haler or orca. just me. > This isn't a mining boost! I feel robbed by CCP's title! no mining ship got a boost non mining ships became mining ships. I'm a dual boxer nothing in this mining boost is going to help me unless i deiced to become a HS orca AFK miner. "next patch we remove the reason why we made plex's and allow every Asian farmer back into the game and return there isk" Clone grade alpha!
STORY A few years back my friend kept his Rorqual under a bubble as it was to expensive to loose. So he took this experience and used it for his orca as at the time Corp Jihads were a thing and 700 mil each was way too much to be replacing.
The bonus for fleet went the whole system tho. Under this new system you won't be able to leave expensive ships safe. Like WH. I don't care how cool you make the Rorqual i still think for the price it belongs under a bubble which are going away too.
Maybe eve is for a new generation and im just too old.
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Neugeniko
Insight Securities
79
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 02:51:10 -
[153] - Quote
Hi, Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.
T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute 5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25% 5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50% 5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10% 5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50% Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%
*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.
Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute 5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute
For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute
With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit from mining drone specialization thou.
Cheers, Neug
Indices/Mining Simulator V6.41 UPDATED*
Daily Forge Mineral Sales Summary V1.5
Neug's Prime Industrial Real Estate V1.3
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Marox Calendale
Human League Eleven Signs Network
86
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 08:55:11 -
[154] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:... Slot layout: 6H (+3), ... Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 60 / 0.26 (+0.1) / 150,000,000 (-100,000,000) / 54.07s (-1.38) ... Ore Hold: 150,000m3 (+100,000) ... Let us know what you think! These changes are really awesome. Additional High Slots were really needed to support mining fleets. Now you can boost and collect cans at one time. Great!
The Mass and orehold changes are also really awesome. You can-¦t image how happy I am with that. Now the orca is much better an alternative to jump ore thru any kind of wormhole to a T2 Hauler. These still have the better Mass/Orehold ratio, but now it is not as worse as it was before. But could we get a PI Extention too? Please! It is so annoying to jump PI thru wormholes. Even with T2 Haulers it is not very better to bring in 1 Million m-¦ of Pi. What about an Ore/Planetary Interaction Hold for the Orca? |
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 09:56:44 -
[155] - Quote
Neugeniko wrote:Hi, Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.
T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute 5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25% 5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50% 5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10% 5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50% Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%
*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.
Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute 5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute
For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute
With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit from mining drone specialization thou.
Cheers, Neug
So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1142
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 09:56:46 -
[156] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:A compression module for the Orca would be nice, having to dock it up every 16 or 17 minutes to empty it or have a freighter on standby (especially in lowsec), pretty much defeats its ongrid role.
Suggestion; Highslot module, lowsec/nulsec activation only, 300 Heavy water to activate (reduces by 25% per lvl Capital Industrial Ships) 60 second activation time, no auto repeat. Works just like its Rorqual counterpart by immobilizing the Orca for the duration of the cycle (has a nice clear animation so everyone nearby can see it is active) Is 17 minutes factoring in the increased orehold? I'd prefer a deployable and non-scoopable mobile compressor. (consumables are good for business). Which would also give soloist potential usage if it was small enough in cargo. Destoryable similar to the mobile tractor - so agressors can get action. If it was scoopable, then a compression loss at 1 in 6. It is, I have to dock up to empty it every 10 to 12 minutes now. It won't take much longer to fill the new ore hold.
I discarded a deployable as an option, as orca bumping is going to be a real thing.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
5902
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 11:34:57 -
[157] - Quote
Marox Calendale wrote:GǪ alternative to jump ore thru any kind of wormhole to a T2 Hauler. These still have the better Mass/Orehold ratio, but now it is not as worse as it was before. But could we get a PI Extention too? Please! It is so annoying to jump PI thru wormholes. Even with T2 Haulers it is not very better to bring in 1 Million m-¦ of Pi. What about an Ore/Planetary Interaction Hold for the Orca?
Sounds like you need to suggest a T2 epithal, and the place for that is F&I discussion :D
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6201
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 11:56:12 -
[158] - Quote
Goati wrote:Neugeniko wrote:Hi, Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.
T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute 5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25% 5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50% 5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10% 5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50% Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%
*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.
Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute 5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute
For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute
With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit from mining drone specialization thou.
Cheers, Neug
So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well.
That's mining drones though. Which have travel time to and from roids. Even when you're right on top of them, the drones orbit at 5km, so you do lose time on it.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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HandelsPharmi
Pharmi on CharBazaar
1823
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 12:23:59 -
[159] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Goati wrote:Neugeniko wrote:Hi, Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.
T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute 5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25% 5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50% 5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10% 5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50% Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%
*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.
Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute 5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute
For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute
With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit from mining drone specialization thou.
Cheers, Neug
So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well. That's mining drones though. Which have travel time to and from roids. Even when you're right on top of them, the drones orbit at 5km, so you do lose time on it.
up to 3 cans ore per hour... this is not even close to a Venture I do not understand, what are you comparing. An unfitted Hulk without any MLUs?
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Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1997
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 18:37:46 -
[160] - Quote
Goati wrote:Neugeniko wrote:Hi, Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.
T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute 5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25% 5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50% 5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10% 5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50% Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%
*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.
Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute 5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute
For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute
With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit from mining drone specialization thou.
Cheers, Neug
So basically an orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well. Depends on which exhumer. A 2 MLU Hulk mines 1698m^3/min WITHOUT boosts and ~2500 with a mindlinked max skilled Orca. A skiff 1203m^3/min without boosts, ~1780 with those same boosts.
If the idea is to have the Skiff and Mack stand out more then the orca could stand to be toned down a bit, but maybe the expectation is that most will forego full yield rigging and faction drones? |
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Flashmala
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
47
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 19:58:53 -
[161] - Quote
Drigo Segvian wrote:If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP
Let the CODE salt flow...
Age does not diminish the extreme disappointment of having a scoop of ice cream fall from the cone.
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Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
11
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 21:03:19 -
[162] - Quote
Flashmala wrote:Drigo Segvian wrote:If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Let the CODE salt flow...
Tanked orcas were already not ganked anyway. 400k or 600k ehp, they are left alone.
The main change is that it will now be possible to shut down the fleet boosts of miners by bumping their Orca away. And the icing on the cake is that the Orca will not be able to mine either if it is bumped away.
Such a shame miners, to have such an overpowered vessel be completely countered by a bumper. |
Flashmala
Rogue Clones Yulai Federation
47
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 21:06:27 -
[163] - Quote
Goati wrote:Flashmala wrote:Drigo Segvian wrote:If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Let the CODE salt flow... Tanked orcas were already not ganked anyway. 400k or 600k ehp, they are left alone. The main change is that it will now be possible to shut down the fleet boosts of miners by bumping their Orca away. And the icing on the cake is that the Orca will not be able to mine either if it is bumped away. Such a shame miners, to have such an overpowered vessel be completely countered by a bumper. Isn't bumping getting the 3-minute nerf?
Age does not diminish the extreme disappointment of having a scoop of ice cream fall from the cone.
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Balhut Fakutori
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 21:06:39 -
[164] - Quote
Hello :)
First pillar, new boosts are solid imo, but Orca should have ore compression module instead of increased ore hold, some smaller version of industrial core, like siege and bastion modules. In the old days to compress ore in hisec you needed your own pos, but now you can compress ore for free anywhere (or 1-2 jumps away) thanks to citadels so why don't do it in belt. This would cover helping miners because orca would perform tasks that exhumers can't (boosts and ore keeping). You can haul in a hauler/freighter you don't need orca for that.
Second pillar, as said before security in hisec does not come from dps but from tank compared to value of your ship/fit/cargo, so if you fly cheap ship with tons of ehp you are safe, but if you have billions in cargo in untanked t1 hauler you are asking for trouble. This is true with mining ships too, and now mining ice with anything other than proc/skiff is suicide. So it would be cool that the same industrial module could extend orca's regular shield to be 5 km in radius so all mining ships can hide under it. And you would need to kill orca's shield in order to gank miners. This would provide protection because now one catalyst is enough to kill ret/covetor in few seconds. This module would allow only fleeted industrials to enter and make orca immobile and immune to bumping and it could run on heavy water or something.
Third pillar, mining in orca is good as long as it not outperform exhumers in this role.
you asked for feedback, you have it :) and sorry for my English thanks |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
838
|
Posted - 2016.10.07 23:19:38 -
[165] - Quote
Balhut Fakutori wrote:Orca should have ore compression module
...
if you fly cheap ship with tons of ehp you are safe, but if you have billions in cargo in untanked t1 hauler you are asking for trouble.
How much cargo value do you think an Orca filled with compressed ore would amount to? "asking for trouble" levels? |
Jalxan
Spoopy Newbies Brave Collective
42
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 01:33:34 -
[166] - Quote
I don't see why people are so concerned about bumping. If I ever need to worry about bumping, a 500mn MWD, and an Anchor rig, will easily boost that ship to 400,000,000kg. And that would put the relative end to that. It won't make it impossible, but it will surely make it far more difficult. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1997
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 02:47:29 -
[167] - Quote
Flashmala wrote:Goati wrote:Flashmala wrote:Drigo Segvian wrote:If the gankers are crying then its a good change. +1 CCP Let the CODE salt flow... Tanked orcas were already not ganked anyway. 400k or 600k ehp, they are left alone. The main change is that it will now be possible to shut down the fleet boosts of miners by bumping their Orca away. And the icing on the cake is that the Orca will not be able to mine either if it is bumped away. Such a shame miners, to have such an overpowered vessel be completely countered by a bumper. Isn't bumping getting the 3-minute nerf? For warping yes, but that doesn't stop someone from bumping you again once you warp back.
It's going to be interesting to see how much dedication there is to the bumping cause. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
847
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 03:05:11 -
[168] - Quote
Jalxan wrote:I don't see why people are so concerned about bumping. If I ever need to worry about bumping, a 500mn MWD, and an Anchor rig, will easily boost that ship to 400,000,000kg. And that would put the relative end to that. It won't make it impossible, but it will surely make it far more difficult.
EDIT - I actually would like to see the ability to stack Anchor rigs, instead of being limited to just one. Or, alternatively, make a tech 2 rig which adds 150% or more instead.
Its the fitting tradeoff issue some would have. As seen in the CCP fix BS threads as well. Posters put up solutions in game now...and its I don't want to do that. I want to fit my ship my way the reasoning.
Me I see your point. some fits I have for many things are built around what may happen from other people and not the actual dream fit I'd like. Its an open sandbox mmo....sometimes you have to build your sand castles around other peoples stuff lol.
My orca just hauls crap and my smaller rat killing pve ships. I go with a mWD fit setup I saw somewhere else. Day comes I meet this issue, well guess we can tug of war between my mwd setup and their bumping till one side gets bored or I win and clear the situation lol.
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
244
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 05:14:53 -
[169] - Quote
Jalxan wrote:I don't see why people are so concerned about bumping. If I ever need to worry about bumping, a 500mn MWD, and an Anchor rig, will easily boost that ship to 400,000,000kg. And that would put the relative end to that. It won't make it impossible, but it will surely make it far more difficult.
EDIT - I actually would like to see the ability to stack Anchor rigs, instead of being limited to just one. Or, alternatively, make a tech 2 rig which adds 150% or more instead. My Orca does have an 500MWD onbord (10 sec to warp is priceless), while an AB too brings the same amount of extra mass . A well fitted Machariel or Stabber still can bump me to a speed of over 1000m/s. I tried an Higgs-Anchor but it did not help. On sisi, i even was able to bump a Rorqual with an MWD and a Higgs-Anchor on Indu-Mode with a Skiff. Not much, but it works.
If it can move, you can bump it.
If something seems impossible to do in EVE, people will find a way to do it.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
634
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 13:44:29 -
[170] - Quote
Ok, I'll put this out there.
For the min/max crowd and math geniuses.
Looking at the mining boosts the Orca only needs 2, Optimisation and Enhancement, which will leave 4 high slots. You don't need a tractor as you can just toss a mtu out.
So we'll have 4 slots to use....
What would the yield be if they were fitted with mining lasers along with the drones?
Along with the boosts ofc.
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
244
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 13:54:17 -
[171] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote:Ok, I'll put this out there.
For the min/max crowd and math geniuses.
Looking at the mining boosts the Orca only needs 2, Optimisation and Enhancement, which will leave 4 high slots. You don't need a tractor as you can just toss a mtu out.
So we'll have 4 slots to use....
What would the yield be if they were fitted with mining lasers along with the drones?
Along with the boosts ofc. Orcas can't use turrets.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Drago Shouna
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
634
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 14:38:05 -
[172] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:Drago Shouna wrote:Ok, I'll put this out there.
For the min/max crowd and math geniuses.
Looking at the mining boosts the Orca only needs 2, Optimisation and Enhancement, which will leave 4 high slots. You don't need a tractor as you can just toss a mtu out.
So we'll have 4 slots to use....
What would the yield be if they were fitted with mining lasers along with the drones?
Along with the boosts ofc. Orcas can't use turrets.
Pffft
Solecist Project...." They refuse to play by the rules and laws of the game and use it as excuse ..."
" They don't care about how you play as long as they get to play how they want."
Welcome to EVE.
|
perpetua Isimazu
Perkone Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 18:45:29 -
[173] - Quote
What with all the references to bumping, I think it might be interesting to see a watered down version of the industrial core for the orca and make all these new buffs to drone mining only accessible when said core was active.
That core should probably act the same way as the cores for the rorq when it comes to mobility.
Be interesting to see what new griefing methods would be employed if the orca was unable to be bumped. Perhaps those 50 man gank fleets that have been referenced in this thread might actually appear.
Or not.
Either way, it'd throw the cat among the pigeons and be fun to see what happened. ;) |
Brokk Witgenstein
Extreme Agony
840
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 19:16:30 -
[174] - Quote
I've never seen a pigeon eat a cat |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
244
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 21:13:16 -
[175] - Quote
It's more like a bunch of cats(catalysts) vs one cow(orca).
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
244
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 21:14:07 -
[176] - Quote
perpetua Isimazu wrote:What with all the references to bumping, I think it might be interesting to see a watered down version of the industrial core for the orca and make all these new buffs to drone mining only accessible when said core was active.
That core should probably act the same way as the cores for the rorq when it comes to mobility.
Be interesting to see what new griefing methods would be employed if the orca was unable to be bumped. Perhaps those 50 man gank fleets that have been referenced in this thread might actually appear.
Or not.
Either way, it'd throw the cat among the pigeons and be fun to see what happened. ;) Please read post#169
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6205
|
Posted - 2016.10.08 21:45:49 -
[177] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:It's more like a bunch of cats(catalysts) vs one cow(orca).
Hippo amongst lions.
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
244
|
Posted - 2016.10.09 01:05:17 -
[178] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote:It's more like a bunch of cats(catalysts) vs one cow(orca). Hippo amongst lions. Hippos kill more people per year then lions. Orcas in Eve are more like vegetarian.
New comparision: 20 white sharks vs. 1 blue whale.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
PhosGate
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.09 05:03:13 -
[179] - Quote
lots of todo being made on how much ORE this will be able to pull in while in high sec.
Augmented mining drones will not see that much use in high sec. Maybe islands and quite regions of low and null but not the standard high use areas of high sec. They are much too squishy for the cost. I am not a ganker but if I see aug mining drones on D I absolutely will be grabbing a Thrasher with unstacked arti's warping to zero on the Orca and popping one to three of them as he tries to pull them back into the drone bay. Being able to do that much isk damage that easily will be a thing. These drones will be over 200mil each and unlike ORE mining lasers, will be hanging out in space all by their onesies alone and afraid. I will be compelled to put them out of their misery and most certainly will not be the only one doing this. Might even be a new thing for highsec. Gankers, bumpers and now drone rapers or some such thing. I'll leave the naming convention to you cool kids. Figure your mining calculations for the Orca in highsec with T2 drones when comparing how much they can mine as related to barge/exhumer. |
Roy ThunderRoad
Viziam Amarr Empire
3
|
Posted - 2016.10.09 09:39:16 -
[180] - Quote
@ PhosGate
Lol I have no axe to grind on this subject either way - but Sir I salute your post for two reasons.
1 - I like your style of putting your point accross
2 - you have, in this single post, nullified half the whine in this thread
o7
Cheers Roy
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JanSVK
Gladiators of Rage ChaosTheory.
13
|
Posted - 2016.10.09 10:07:28 -
[181] - Quote
I like the boost to he ORCA.
I just a few notes and suggestions
suggestion: 1, Reduce the orcas Packed size so we could transport it in a JF. Right now the only way to transport this ship is via Titan/POS bridge or gates..
note: 2, With his the ORCA will become the new AFK miner. Mackinaw MK III.
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rondoLV
Brotherhood Of Equal Cohortes Triarii
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.09 10:37:45 -
[182] - Quote
I only have one sugestion. Let the Orca finaly Compres Ore |
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
834
|
Posted - 2016.10.10 13:19:30 -
[183] - Quote
PhosGate wrote:These drones will be over 200mil each Last time I checked the market even Harvester Drones weren't that expensive. And those only reached the 150+m ISK level because they were limited. That's going to change.
Augmented Mining Drones should pretty soonGäó be at the same level as Augmented Hobgoblins are. They yield 9% more than T2 drones. No way they'll be 1000% above T2 drones in price for 9% more yield.
If you are wasting sec and a Trasher to kill 20m ISK in drones you are welcome.
But I think you are talking about the GÇÿExcavatorGÇÖ Mining Superdrones which should be 200+m ISK if a single one can yield exhumer levels. Unfortunately you won't see them in Highsec as they can only be used on a Rorqual - and there are zero Rorqual in Highsec. Even Chribba won't be able to use them on his Veldnaught.
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Uhdana Di'Clutz
Drifter Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.10 13:35:28 -
[184] - Quote
Love the changes. Agree with others though. The one change missing that I was hoping for was the ability to compress ore in belt. Someone mentioned the idea of an module that ran off of charges. Yes please. I would equip something like that in a heartbeat. High slot that could hold enough charges to last the same total amount of time as a fully loaded command burst module. |
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
48
|
Posted - 2016.10.10 14:04:17 -
[185] - Quote
I do like these feedback threads with no dev interaction at all. It causes threads to degrade rapidly into useless drivel allowing those same devs to just ignore all the feedback given. |
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory Peoples United Republic Empire
207
|
Posted - 2016.10.10 17:57:13 -
[186] - Quote
give orca single strip miner . this will make them more powerful |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
1999
|
Posted - 2016.10.10 19:06:08 -
[187] - Quote
Given what's already proposed they don't really need any more power. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1144
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 00:31:59 -
[188] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Given what's already proposed they don't really need any more power. "Balance" combined with optimal use, the Orca doesn't need mining drones over a way to compress ore. I'd much rather have the ability to compress ore for miners in my fleet, than use drones to pull ore.
The Orca is a command ship, let it be the best it can be at the ONE thing it is designed for (aside from boosting), hauling ore - Compression module..
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2000
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 00:38:17 -
[189] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Given what's already proposed they don't really need any more power. "Balance" combined with optimal use, the Orca doesn't need mining drones over a way to compress ore. I'd much rather have the ability to compress ore for miners in my fleet, than use drones to pull ore. The Orca is a command ship, let it be the best it can be at the ONE thing it is designed for (aside from boosting), hauling ore - Compression module.. It pretty much is the best at that save the ships designed to beat it in capacity. Short of a freighter/rorq there isn't anything I'm aware of that can haul that much ore. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1145
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 04:16:49 -
[190] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Given what's already proposed they don't really need any more power. "Balance" combined with optimal use, the Orca doesn't need mining drones over a way to compress ore. I'd much rather have the ability to compress ore for miners in my fleet, than use drones to pull ore. The Orca is a command ship, let it be the best it can be at the ONE thing it is designed for (aside from boosting), hauling ore - Compression module.. It pretty much is the best at that save the ships designed to beat it in capacity. Short of a freighter/rorq there isn't anything I'm aware of that can haul that much ore. And right there is the whole issue, having to mine with a freighter on grid is just wrong but unless you want to lose 5 to 8 minutes of mining efficiency every 15 minutes or so, it is what will need to happen.
In reality, the new Orca holds around 20K more than a max space fit Orca does now. It's 100K more if you continue to fit for max space, or around 7 minutes of on grid time (not a lot of time).
Of course the larger the mining fleet, the less time the Orca has till it's full.. I am using my small fleet as an example, so on grid times will vary a lot. Doubling that time by giving the Orca compression ability, 1 means more ore mined for time on grid, 2 higher value ganks with more ore in the victims hold.
It would also help for mining anoms or even just belts in un-stationed back water systems. No-one is going to put up a citadel to go mining in a lucrative spot for a day or 2, right now I use pos's. Up in an hour, online compression array, move miners in, mine what I want, pull pos down and move on.
It would be a small concession that could vastly improve the QoL for roaming miners, like me.
Purely selfish reasoning but then Eve is a selfish game.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Dieter Ottenbach
Ottenbach Industries LTD
1
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 05:02:41 -
[191] - Quote
I like most of the changes. However I'm a little concerned over the 22.5 km base AoE (Orca). Occasionally I do have separations of 30-40 km. 22km zone edge is really going to be a new PITA and too close when considering multiple mining barges that you naturally will want to spread across the belt as far as possible - each with a laser range increased to about 18km now, hmmm) It takes leveling up through all 5 lvl on 3 separate skill sets to eventually increase the AoE to ~46.75 km (without implants). Doable but like I said, starting out it might be a PITA.
Also, I keep seeing references by people saying one has to now continually re-boost (manually clicking). However I don't see any justification for this assumption (if that's what they are). Cycle time is about 1 minute, but nothing I've seen indicates they will not auto-cycle (and I think they should as a matter of principle). I'll just say it here now, if the boost for mining doesn't auto-cycle that WILL SUCK!!
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
244
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 05:53:31 -
[192] - Quote
Dieter Ottenbach wrote:I like most of the changes. However I'm a little concerned over the 22.5 km base AoE (Orca). Occasionally I do have separations of 30-40 km. 22km zone edge is really going to be a new PITA and too close when considering multiple mining barges that you naturally will want to spread across the belt as far as possible - each with a laser range increased to about 18km now, hmmm) It takes leveling up through all 5 lvl on 3 separate skill sets to eventually increase the AoE to ~46.75 km (without implants). Doable but like I said, starting out it might be a PITA.
Also, I keep seeing references by people saying one has to now continually re-boost (manually clicking). However I don't see any justification for this assumption (if that's what they are). Cycle time is about 1 minute, but nothing I've seen indicates they will not auto-cycle (and I think they should as a matter of principle). I'll just say it here now, if the boost for mining doesn't auto-cycle that WILL SUCK!!
Use mid-grade harvest implants for your miners and a laser field boost for the orca and the laser range will increase to over 30 km on ore and over 20 km on ice. With ORE harvester it increases to 39/27km. And when i read the burst data correct, it will be even more in movember.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2000
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 05:59:51 -
[193] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Given what's already proposed they don't really need any more power. "Balance" combined with optimal use, the Orca doesn't need mining drones over a way to compress ore. I'd much rather have the ability to compress ore for miners in my fleet, than use drones to pull ore. The Orca is a command ship, let it be the best it can be at the ONE thing it is designed for (aside from boosting), hauling ore - Compression module.. It pretty much is the best at that save the ships designed to beat it in capacity. Short of a freighter/rorq there isn't anything I'm aware of that can haul that much ore. And right there is the whole issue, having to mine with a freighter on grid is just wrong but unless you want to lose 5 to 8 minutes of mining efficiency every 15 minutes or so, it is what will need to happen. In reality, the new Orca holds around 20K more than a max space fit Orca does now. It's 100K more if you continue to fit for max space, or around 7 minutes of on grid time (not a lot of time). Of course the larger the mining fleet, the less time the Orca has till it's full.. I am using my small fleet as an example, so on grid times will vary a lot. Doubling that time by giving the Orca compression ability, 1 means more ore mined for time on grid, 2 higher value ganks with more ore in the victims hold. It would also help for mining anoms or even just belts in un-stationed back water systems. No-one is going to put up a citadel to go mining in a lucrative spot for a day or 2, right now I use pos's. Up in an hour, online compression array, move miners in, mine what I want, pull pos down and move on. It would be a small concession that could vastly improve the QoL for roaming miners, like me. Purely selfish reasoning but then Eve is a selfish game. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I'm coming up with ~190k total orca space currently while fully expanded. The new one gives 220k base, which is a 30k increase. Further expansion can get you another ~50k, making a total potential increase of about 80k.
I can certainly see how it helps, but I'm not sure the idea of a > 100x increase in mineral capacity is intended here or can be considered balanced even without the mining capacities. Not with the hold going up anyways. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1147
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 08:59:30 -
[194] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Given what's already proposed they don't really need any more power. "Balance" combined with optimal use, the Orca doesn't need mining drones over a way to compress ore. I'd much rather have the ability to compress ore for miners in my fleet, than use drones to pull ore. The Orca is a command ship, let it be the best it can be at the ONE thing it is designed for (aside from boosting), hauling ore - Compression module.. It pretty much is the best at that save the ships designed to beat it in capacity. Short of a freighter/rorq there isn't anything I'm aware of that can haul that much ore. And right there is the whole issue, having to mine with a freighter on grid is just wrong but unless you want to lose 5 to 8 minutes of mining efficiency every 15 minutes or so, it is what will need to happen. In reality, the new Orca holds around 20K more than a max space fit Orca does now. It's 100K more if you continue to fit for max space, or around 7 minutes of on grid time (not a lot of time). Of course the larger the mining fleet, the less time the Orca has till it's full.. I am using my small fleet as an example, so on grid times will vary a lot. Doubling that time by giving the Orca compression ability, 1 means more ore mined for time on grid, 2 higher value ganks with more ore in the victims hold. It would also help for mining anoms or even just belts in un-stationed back water systems. No-one is going to put up a citadel to go mining in a lucrative spot for a day or 2, right now I use pos's. Up in an hour, online compression array, move miners in, mine what I want, pull pos down and move on. It would be a small concession that could vastly improve the QoL for roaming miners, like me. Purely selfish reasoning but then Eve is a selfish game. Maybe I'm doing something wrong but I'm coming up with ~190k total orca space currently while fully expanded. The new one gives 220k base, which is a 30k increase. Further expansion can get you another ~50k, making a total potential increase of about 80k. I can certainly see how it helps, but I'm not sure the idea of a > 100x increase in mineral capacity is intended here or can be considered balanced even without the mining capacities. Not with the hold going up anyways. I'll put it in nice easy English. Right now I run a max cargo Orca because it sits in a pos for 90% of its time so is at little risk. Come November, I won't be sitting in lowsec with a max cargo Orca now forced to sit on grid. So all in all I gain 30K from the increased ore hold AND lose my boosts for longer on each trip to the pos. (unless of course boosting is changing so it can be active while the Booster is in warp) This gets even worse once pos's are removed and if Devs don't get it right now, by then it will be too late. The Orca won't get another balance pass.
While currently, the only time I am not boosting is while in warp, come November I am losing at least 4 mins out of every 20 or +12 minutes (nearly an Orca load) every hour in productivity.
+30K per load (from 14 to +-19 minutes to fill orca) minus 12 minutes per hour unable to boost - I go from 3.5 orca loads per hour to 2 and a bit. NB; I used to have a dedicated freighter alt to haul but it is not viable isk wise, there just isn't enough profit to afford another alt that isn't able to produce income.
Bottom line, if i can't find a way to make up the loss of productivity due to being forced to have my orca on grid (for no real gain but a lot more risk) - I just unsub all my miners and other industrial characters, go back to running lvl 5's to make isk for my main and be done with it.
Most industrial efforts are undertaken by small groups or individuals with a few (or lots) of alts. If these changes cost too much in productivity, those individuals will look elsewhere to spend their time. Probably outside eve as most industrialists have no inclination to do anything else.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
173
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 09:55:16 -
[195] - Quote
O.O That is a lot of versatility packed into one hull. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2000
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 18:34:11 -
[196] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:I'll put it in nice easy English. Right now I run a max cargo Orca because it sits in a pos for 90% of its time so is at little risk. Come November, I won't be sitting in lowsec with a max cargo Orca now forced to sit on grid. So all in all I gain 30K from the increased ore hold AND lose my boosts for longer on each trip to the pos. (unless of course boosting is changing so it can be active while the Booster is in warp) This gets even worse once pos's are removed and if Devs don't get it right now, by then it will be too late. The Orca won't get another balance pass.
While currently, the only time I am not boosting is while in warp, come November I am losing at least 4 mins out of every 20 or +12 minutes (nearly an Orca load) every hour in productivity.
+30K per load (from 14 to +-19 minutes to fill orca) minus 12 minutes per hour unable to boost - I go from 3.5 orca loads per hour to 2 and a bit. NB; I used to have a dedicated freighter alt to haul but it is not viable isk wise, there just isn't enough profit to afford another alt that isn't able to produce income.
Bottom line, if i can't find a way to make up the loss of productivity due to being forced to have my orca on grid (for no real gain but a lot more risk) - I just unsub all my miners and other industrial characters, go back to running lvl 5's to make isk for my main and be done with it.
Most industrial efforts are undertaken by small groups or individuals with a few (or lots) of alts. If these changes cost too much in productivity, those individuals will look elsewhere to spend their time. Probably outside eve as most industrialists have no inclination to do anything else. That sounds like a logistics issue. If keeping the boosts continually active is the goal then the obvious suggestion is a secondary hauler and the Orca only acting as in belt storage and boosts. Yes, it takes a miner or 2 depending on the chosen hauler but the size of your operation sounds like the gains may be worth it if the losses from the boost turn out to be greater.
Also, don't think I'm not understanding the issue. There's clearly a point to a limit on the orca's capacity, and if the intended for the Orca itself to operate independently while supporting a sizable fleet for a significant period of time I'd think they would have made it to do just that. But they didn't. They made that exclusively the domain of the Rorq.
But more than that the change to boosts as a whole is designed to be disruptive to the current meta of always having boosts without issue and what you're asking for is a partial pass. Threats to unsub or no, what you're asking for infringes on the next step up and seeks to undo part of the change.
And really if you do make good on your unsubs that may be for the better as groups that are sized for the ships they use or do use additional support will be that much better off doing what they do without the competition. |
Blavish
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
14
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 22:05:35 -
[197] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Another buff to freighter ehp o_O
I guess you really needed to go back and buff those freighters that could already fit a DC2.
The bowhead does not need more EHP. If they get caught outside highsec a little extra ehp won't help them. In highsec max tank bowheads almost never die. Go look at the killboards if you don't believe me.
The agility buff is weird too because everyone and their dog uses a mwd.
The orca is getting way too many buffs at once. Specific bays (ore, pi, whatever) have been used excessively already and mostly just remove any need to make choices when fitting a ship. This means people will be free to just fit max tank while at the same time getting more base ehp.
I realise the orca is getting more shield to make it survivable outside high sec. I think it's pretty obvious that if you want to keep the orca balanced in high sec it needs to lose way more hull to balance out the shield gain.
~just one more nerf~
Gotta love the gankers complain about mining ships actually getting useful
https://zkillboard.com/character/92133499/ |
Cade Windstalker
571
|
Posted - 2016.10.11 22:40:10 -
[198] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:I'll put it in nice easy English. Right now I run a max cargo Orca because it sits in a pos for 90% of its time so is at little risk. Come November, I won't be sitting in lowsec with a max cargo Orca now forced to sit on grid. So all in all I gain 30K from the increased ore hold AND lose my boosts for longer on each trip to the pos. (unless of course boosting is changing so it can be active while the Booster is in warp) This gets even worse once pos's are removed and if Devs don't get it right now, by then it will be too late. The Orca won't get another balance pass.
While currently, the only time I am not boosting is while in warp, come November I am losing at least 4 mins out of every 20 or +12 minutes (nearly an Orca load) every hour in productivity.
+30K per load (from 14 to +-19 minutes to fill orca) minus 12 minutes per hour unable to boost - I go from 3.5 orca loads per hour to 2 and a bit. NB; I used to have a dedicated freighter alt to haul but it is not viable isk wise, there just isn't enough profit to afford another alt that isn't able to produce income.
Bottom line, if i can't find a way to make up the loss of productivity due to being forced to have my orca on grid (for no real gain but a lot more risk) - I just unsub all my miners and other industrial characters, go back to running lvl 5's to make isk for my main and be done with it.
Most industrial efforts are undertaken by small groups or individuals with a few (or lots) of alts. If these changes cost too much in productivity, those individuals will look elsewhere to spend their time. Probably outside eve as most industrialists have no inclination to do anything else.
Couple of points and FYIs.
First off, you should go read the dev blog on how boosts are changing. Short version, they're an AOE pulse that sticks to the ships affected, so you can boost, warp off in your Orca, drop your stuff and warp back. If you're smart about where you put your Citadel you can probably have zero or close to zero downtime on your mining boosts.
I'd also like to point out that CCP have been pretty good about revisiting changes that needed it over the last few years. The longest standing complaints right now are probably Jump Fatigue and T3Ds, and the former is getting a tweak in November I believe.
You're also forgetting that the Orca can mine now, which means it's directly contributing to your ore yields in a way that it wasn't before. |
Lelob
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
237
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 02:25:17 -
[199] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks! This will be the specific feedback thread for the Orca revamp coming this November. You can check out the dev blog here for the whole context.Other feedback threads are available for the Porpoise, Rorqual, and the mining foreman gameplay as a whole. ORCAIndustrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level):5% bonus to ship cargo capacity and ore hold 3% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst Strength and Duration 1% bonus to Shield Command Burst Strength and Duration 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield -10% reduction in drone ice harvesting cycle time Role bonus:100% bonus to drone mining yield -25% reduction in drone ice harvesting cycle time 100% bonus to drone damage 400% bonus to Remote Shield Booster optimal range 90% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue Can fit three Command Burst modules 50% bonus to Command Burst Area of Effect Range 250% bonus to Tractor Beam range 100% bonus to Tractor Beam velocity 500% bonus to Survey Scanner range Slot layout: 6H (+3), 5M (+1), 2L Fittings: 1200 PWG (+240), 550 CPU (+120) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 30,000 (+19,250) / 7000 (+100) / 45,000 (-1000) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 40 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 35 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 8000 (+3800) / 1200s (+400) / 6.67 (+1.42) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 60 / 0.26 (+0.1) / 150,000,000 (-100,000,000) / 54.07s (-1.38) Warp Speed: 2 au/s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 200 (+125) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km (+10) / 75 / 7 (+5) Sensor strength: 30 Magnetometric (+15) Signature radius: 1000 Cargo Hold: 30,000m3 Ore Hold: 150,000m3 (+100,000) Fleet Hangar: 40,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay: 400,000m3 Cost: ~700m isk Max Yield: ~1400m3 per minute + drone travel time Max DPS: ~800 dps Let us know what you think!
Please let me fit a grappler. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1154
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 09:49:32 -
[200] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:I'll put it in nice easy English. Right now I run a max cargo Orca because it sits in a pos for 90% of its time so is at little risk. Come November, I won't be sitting in lowsec with a max cargo Orca now forced to sit on grid. So all in all I gain 30K from the increased ore hold AND lose my boosts for longer on each trip to the pos. (unless of course boosting is changing so it can be active while the Booster is in warp) This gets even worse once pos's are removed and if Devs don't get it right now, by then it will be too late. The Orca won't get another balance pass.
While currently, the only time I am not boosting is while in warp, come November I am losing at least 4 mins out of every 20 or +12 minutes (nearly an Orca load) every hour in productivity.
+30K per load (from 14 to +-19 minutes to fill orca) minus 12 minutes per hour unable to boost - I go from 3.5 orca loads per hour to 2 and a bit. NB; I used to have a dedicated freighter alt to haul but it is not viable isk wise, there just isn't enough profit to afford another alt that isn't able to produce income.
Bottom line, if i can't find a way to make up the loss of productivity due to being forced to have my orca on grid (for no real gain but a lot more risk) - I just unsub all my miners and other industrial characters, go back to running lvl 5's to make isk for my main and be done with it.
Most industrial efforts are undertaken by small groups or individuals with a few (or lots) of alts. If these changes cost too much in productivity, those individuals will look elsewhere to spend their time. Probably outside eve as most industrialists have no inclination to do anything else. Couple of points and FYIs. First off, you should go read the dev blog on how boosts are changing. Short version, they're an AOE pulse that sticks to the ships affected, so you can boost, warp off in your Orca, drop your stuff and warp back. If you're smart about where you put your Citadel you can probably have zero or close to zero downtime on your mining boosts. I'd also like to point out that CCP have been pretty good about revisiting changes that needed it over the last few years. The longest standing complaints right now are probably Jump Fatigue and T3Ds, and the former is getting a tweak in November I believe. You're also forgetting that the Orca can mine now, which means it's directly contributing to your ore yields in a way that it wasn't before. Boosts stop as soon as you dock, jump through a stargate or enter a starbase forcefield. Presuming the blog is written correctly once an Orca enters a pos or docks in a citadel to unload, the boost cycle it started will cease activity. If I'm wrong here, I'm wrong but I have read that part of the blog several times and believe my understanding to be correct. Otherwise, with a max skilled Orca pilot you can still virtually run offgrid boosts, only having to warp to your miners every 5 minutes or so, collect cans and return to safety. Any ship in warp is invulnerable, so I'm pretty sure Devs don't intend Orca's to start boosts and leave grid for the duration.
Fatigue and T3d's are indeed the longest standing unaddressed complaints - Neither of which is being changed in November. Capital ships are getting an extra 1LY jump range AND the added fatigue to match. A zero outcome change, except there will now be more choke points for hunters to watch. The change is actually 2LY for dreads and carriers, 1 LY for supers and titans. As subcaps can only jump as far as a titan - The net increase for all capitals is, 1LY. Another change that shows how little understanding Devs have of how the game they develop is played.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
6212
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 11:42:10 -
[201] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:I'll put it in nice easy English. Right now I run a max cargo Orca because it sits in a pos for 90% of its time so is at little risk. Come November, I won't be sitting in lowsec with a max cargo Orca now forced to sit on grid. So all in all I gain 30K from the increased ore hold AND lose my boosts for longer on each trip to the pos. (unless of course boosting is changing so it can be active while the Booster is in warp) This gets even worse once pos's are removed and if Devs don't get it right now, by then it will be too late. The Orca won't get another balance pass.
While currently, the only time I am not boosting is while in warp, come November I am losing at least 4 mins out of every 20 or +12 minutes (nearly an Orca load) every hour in productivity.
+30K per load (from 14 to +-19 minutes to fill orca) minus 12 minutes per hour unable to boost - I go from 3.5 orca loads per hour to 2 and a bit. NB; I used to have a dedicated freighter alt to haul but it is not viable isk wise, there just isn't enough profit to afford another alt that isn't able to produce income.
Bottom line, if i can't find a way to make up the loss of productivity due to being forced to have my orca on grid (for no real gain but a lot more risk) - I just unsub all my miners and other industrial characters, go back to running lvl 5's to make isk for my main and be done with it.
Most industrial efforts are undertaken by small groups or individuals with a few (or lots) of alts. If these changes cost too much in productivity, those individuals will look elsewhere to spend their time. Probably outside eve as most industrialists have no inclination to do anything else. Couple of points and FYIs. First off, you should go read the dev blog on how boosts are changing. Short version, they're an AOE pulse that sticks to the ships affected, so you can boost, warp off in your Orca, drop your stuff and warp back. If you're smart about where you put your Citadel you can probably have zero or close to zero downtime on your mining boosts. I'd also like to point out that CCP have been pretty good about revisiting changes that needed it over the last few years. The longest standing complaints right now are probably Jump Fatigue and T3Ds, and the former is getting a tweak in November I believe. You're also forgetting that the Orca can mine now, which means it's directly contributing to your ore yields in a way that it wasn't before. Boosts stop as soon as you dock, jump through a stargate or enter a starbase forcefield. Presuming the blog is written correctly once an Orca enters a pos or docks in a citadel to unload, the boost cycle it started will cease activity. If I'm wrong here, I'm wrong but I have read that part of the blog several times and believe my understanding to be correct. Otherwise, with a max skilled Orca pilot you can still virtually run offgrid boosts, only having to warp to your miners every 5 minutes or so, collect cans and return to safety. Any ship in warp is invulnerable, so I'm pretty sure Devs don't intend Orca's to start boosts and leave grid for the duration. Fatigue and T3d's are indeed the longest standing unaddressed complaints - Neither of which is being changed in November. Capital ships are getting an extra 1LY jump range AND the added fatigue to match. A zero outcome change, except there will now be more choke points for hunters to watch. The change is actually 2LY for dreads and carriers, 1 LY for supers and titans. As subcaps can only jump as far as a titan - The net increase for all capitals is, 1LY. Another change that shows how little understanding Devs have of how the game they develop is played.
The new command bursts don't care what happens to the ship which fires them off. Only what happens to the ship which receives them. This is one of the reasons they're as short as they are. (minute, minute and a half)
Woo! CSM XI!
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 21:27:24 -
[202] - Quote
Interesting changes,but one or two things bugging me:
1-I don t really understand the ehp buff especially the shield and armor part,Orca is already an overtanked ship easily reaching 470k to 500 K EHP depending on the ammunition used.I honnestly waited a nerf to bring that thing back into the 300-350 K.
2-Why nerfing the align time High sec is already sick of bumping online and need more actual gank...Dissapointed
i really look forward to the introduction of those changes ,just those 2 points that seems out of the line for my taste. |
Echo Mande
86
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:23:37 -
[203] - Quote
Here's a proposal that might solve a lot of the various issues the Orca has or might have. Allow the Orca to mount the Industrial Core modules the same way the Rorqual can, with the difference that the Orca receives much less or no burst strength bonus and drone bonuses (at most half listed as Rorqual bonuses). This would be an analog to a Marauder's bastion module in that it would be an optional module to increase power at the cost of mobility.
This would IMO create something a lot like a miniature Rorqual, useable in highsec, and create an intermediate level between a mobile Orca and a mobile Rorqual. Additionally it would allow the Orca to be used for mining as it IMO should be used, not as a ship but as a mobile support platform optimised for mining operations. A deployed Orca would support the operation by serving as a central ore collection node, providing stronger boosts and providing longer range RR protection than a mobile Orca. By having compression it would also support the operation by vastly reducing the amount of hauling needed.
The mobile platform role, with or without Industrial Core, is in my opinion the best way of seeing the Orca as a boosting ship. As an ore hauler it is certainly capable, warping in and aligning while grabbing half a dozen or so cans (6 highs, 6 tractors, 6 cans :)) before warping off but I think that a miasmos or DST is better equipped to do that even if they need more runs. For smaller mobile operations, including fill-and-go ones, IMO you should get a Porpoise as booster.
A smaller but IMO worthwhile change to the Orca as proposed would be to change the bonuses so that the Orca can mount Capital tractor beams at listed range instead of small tractor beams with a bonus.
Commentary anyone?
Wallet remarks everywhere
|
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
19
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 22:37:09 -
[204] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:The new command bursts don't care what happens to the ship which fires them off. Only what happens to the ship which receives them. This is one of the reasons they're as short as they are. (minute, minute and a half)
So we have exchanged OGB for OCD. The auto cycle is 60sec. But the duration can be 90sec. Which means either waste ammo or manually cycle. I can see that getting old fast. |
Cade Windstalker
571
|
Posted - 2016.10.12 23:27:59 -
[205] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Boosts stop as soon as you dock, jump through a stargate or enter a starbase forcefield. Presuming the blog is written correctly once an Orca enters a pos or docks in a citadel to unload, the boost cycle it started will cease activity. If I'm wrong here, I'm wrong but I have read that part of the blog several times and believe my understanding to be correct. Otherwise, with a max skilled Orca pilot you can still virtually run offgrid boosts, only having to warp to your miners every 5 minutes or so, collect cans and return to safety. Any ship in warp is invulnerable, so I'm pretty sure Devs don't intend Orca's to start boosts and leave grid for the duration.
Fatigue and T3d's are indeed the longest standing unaddressed complaints - Neither of which is being changed in November. Capital ships are getting an extra 1LY jump range AND the added fatigue to match. A zero outcome change, except there will now be more choke points for hunters to watch. The change is actually 2LY for dreads and carriers, 1 LY for supers and titans. As subcaps can only jump as far as a titan - The net increase for all capitals is, 1LY. Another change that shows how little understanding Devs have of how the game they develop is played.
You seem to be thinking in terms of the old system, boosts stop as soon as *the affected ship* docks, jumps, ect. The boosting ship can get blown to kingdom come, deleted by CCP, or jump off to Jove space and the ships it has boosted will remain boosted. It is explicitly stated several times in the dev blog and the relevant thread that boosts are no longer tied to the ship that dispensed them.
If you hit your boosts right before a mining laser cycle, warp off, dock, unload, and warp back as long as you're back before the boosts run out you'll have zero boosting downtime. Whether or not you can do that will be mostly subject to timing, how far you have to warp, and the align time on undocking from the citadel.
Longer jump range actually means less choke points and less predictable routs, not more. If you read the thread the devs understand perfectly what they're doing, they're just not doing what you want them to, which isn't a problem in and of itself. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
855
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 01:25:16 -
[206] - Quote
Nya Kittenheart wrote:Interesting changes,but one or two things bugging me: 1-I don t really understand the ehp buff especially the shield and armor part,Orca is already an overtanked ship easily reaching 470k to 500 K EHP depending on the ammunition used.I honnestly waited a nerf to bring that thing back into the 300-350 K. 2-Why nerfing the align time High sec is already sick of bumping online and need more actual gank...Dissapointed i really look forward to the introduction of those changes ,just those 2 points that seems out of the line for my taste.
EHP is to not die easy in 0.0 since they will be on belts. And with no concord 0.0, and low sec and wh even, roamers aren't scared to spend a bit more to fly something better than a dessie for more damage with less ships. This can tank better if fit for that to better deal with that. In current state they'd be easy kill targets really.
The uber high ehp orca's of today are also spec'd for this. You can make them high ehp but they take hits elsewhere.
DCU II and bulkhead in lows kills lows whit the bulkheads killing cargo space and agility.. Double tank it with shield over the hull tank kills mids. And the traverse bulkhead rigs kill cargo space. And you need at least 2 of them imo. I run 2 T2 (I opted to make third hyperspatial to not have warps suck as much time wise), Uber tank t1 rig needs 3. In short..tanky orca's rigs are spoken for and directed to this one task.
Orca align time is countered by MWD fitting. Ye old hit warp, one second spam of MWD. Should have you off the line at 10 seconds. If memory servers orca getting a bit of grid boost to make this easier to fit. Currently orca has issues fitting MWD. You can shoe horn in a Y-TB 500mn MWD....barely. the new grid will help with that a little. On the player to run the MWD, as it is now. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
268
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 02:47:44 -
[207] - Quote
Echo Mande wrote:Here's a proposal that might solve a lot of the various issues the Orca has or might have. Allow the Orca to mount the Industrial Core modules the same way the Rorqual can, with the difference that the Orca receives much less or no burst strength bonus and drone bonuses (at most half listed as Rorqual bonuses). This would be an analog to a Marauder's bastion module in that it would be an optional module to increase power at the cost of mobility.
This would IMO create something a lot like a miniature Rorqual, useable in highsec, and create an intermediate level between a mobile Orca and a mobile Rorqual. Additionally it would allow the Orca to be used for mining as it IMO should be used, not as a ship but as a mobile support platform optimised for mining operations. A deployed Orca would support the operation by serving as a central ore collection node, providing stronger boosts and providing longer range RR protection than a mobile Orca. By having compression it would also support the operation by vastly reducing the amount of hauling needed.
The mobile platform role, with or without Industrial Core, is in my opinion the best way of seeing the Orca as a boosting ship. As an ore hauler it is certainly capable, warping in and aligning while grabbing half a dozen or so cans (6 highs, 6 tractors, 6 cans :)) before warping off but I think that a miasmos or DST is better equipped to do that even if they need more runs. For smaller mobile operations, including fill-and-go ones, IMO you should get a Porpoise as booster.
A smaller but IMO worthwhile change to the Orca as proposed would be to change the bonuses so that the Orca can mount Capital tractor beams at listed range instead of small tractor beams with a bonus.
Commentary anyone?
No, the orca does not need an Indy core. Hell that thing should of been removed onthe Rorqual for more interesting and easier gameplay. 6 tractor beams??? 6 Cans???
dude why do you think it has a fleet hangar and getting the increase to the Ore hold? Warp on the group, fill up and then warp off....or give boosts while there and use a DST to transport ore.
Do you have any idea how many public Cits are in highsec? We do not need a ship that can Compress ore in Highsec, its redundant. |
Nya Kittenheart
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 12:05:16 -
[208] - Quote
Quote:EHP is to not die easy in 0.0 since they will be on belts. And with no concord 0.0, and low sec and wh even, roamers aren't scared to spend a bit more to fly something better than a dessie for more damage with less ships. This can tank better if fit for that to better deal with that. In current state they'd be easy kill targets really.
The uber high ehp orca's of today are also spec'd for this. You can make them high ehp but they take hits elsewhere.
DCU II and bulkhead in lows kills lows whit the bulkheads killing cargo space and agility.. Double tank it with shield over the hull tank kills mids. And the traverse bulkhead rigs kill cargo space. And you need at least 2 of them imo. I run 2 T2 (I opted to make third hyperspatial to not have warps suck as much time wise), Uber tank t1 rig needs 3. In short..tanky orca's rigs are spoken for and directed to this one task.
Edit: I do the above since all I do haul stuff. Mining wise my orca not of much use fitting wise. It just need to carry rat killing BC's size and below ships around really.
Orca align time is countered by MWD fitting. Ye old hit warp, one second spam of MWD. Should have you off the line at 10 seconds. If memory servers orca getting a bit of grid boost to make this easier to fit. Currently orca has issues fitting MWD. You can shoe horn in a Y-TB 500mn MWD....barely. the new grid will help with that a little. On the player to run the MWD, as it is now.
-350 K is not something that die easily even in 0.0 or lows sec,especially when u spew 800 dps with drones and FFS this is eve when in 0.0 and or low sec protect your damn mining Op. -The trade for EHP is non existant you should always fit max tank ,honnestly who cares about losing cargohold space really when u get a x3 larger ore bay in the process with bonuses ... -Speaking about hyperspatial u ll mostly use them to haul in high sec where u ll trade ehp for warpspeed that is only fair. In low or 0.0 there is very low chance your orca move more than a few jumps away and you ll probably having someone hauling for you anyway even more now than it s going to mine for itself so warp speed isnt really critical. -With the align time issue isnt warp out time but Bumping,i'm sick of it and think capital hull sized should more resilient to bumping.Less bumping more actual fight.
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TinramSaw
Die Weisse Flotte Wolfsbrigade.
0
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Posted - 2016.10.13 12:55:29 -
[209] - Quote
Goati wrote:Neugeniko wrote:Hi, Just some info for people trying to calculate drone mining on the new orca.
T2 Mining Drone Base Mining Amount = 33 m3 per minute 5 levels of Mining Drone Operation = 25% 5 levels of Drone Interfacing = 50% 5 levels of (NEW) Mining Drone Specialization = 10% 5 levels of Industrial Command Ships = 50% Orca Mining Drone Role Bonus = 100% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T2 Drone mining rig = 15% 1 T1 Drone mining rig = 10%
*Mining drone rigs don't have a stacking penalty currently. Checked and confirmed in client.
Mining Amount per Drone = 33*1.25*1.5*1.1*1.5*2.0*1.15*1.15*1.1 = 297.04 m3 per minute 5 drones is 5 x 297.04 = 1485 m3 per minute
For augmented drones its then 1485*1.09 = 1619 m3 per minute
With current stats harvester drones would do 1636 m3 per minute, they don't benefit from mining drone specialization thou.
Cheers, Neug
So basically an Orca will be able to mine like a boosted Exhumer with an epic sized cargo hold. The only way to counter it in most cases in high-sec is to bump it. This will end well.
Oh god, could you stop talking about orca beats a boosted exhumer? You don't know anything about mining, I presume... All full boosted Hulk, lvl V, T2 Strip Miners with MLU T2 is making beyond 2000 m3 per minute, without implants or drones... IF an Orca is achieving around that 1400 m3 per minute, a Hulk is making double of that, easily! God damn!
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Cade Windstalker
571
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Posted - 2016.10.13 14:22:10 -
[210] - Quote
Yeah, a maxed out boosted Hulk hits around 3km3/m pretty easily. The Orca doesn't even mine as much as a boosted Skiff, though one Orca boosting other mining ships makes a pretty nice total contribution. |
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
64
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Posted - 2016.10.13 14:31:53 -
[211] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Yeah, a maxed out boosted Hulk hits around 3km3/m pretty easily. The Orca doesn't even mine as much as a boosted Skiff, though one Orca boosting other mining ships makes a pretty nice total contribution.
People always complain about how there is no reason to bring an orca out to the belt when you only have 1-2 people mining.
Because the orca itself cant really contribute to the mining op, making it a better choice to just bring another mining barge. Now the orca will be capable of accualy contributing to the op with its enhanced mining drones, making it a loot more viable to bring one to the belt. And when its solo then heck. it can still be used thanks to the fact that it mines like an unboosted exhumer. And with its vastly increased ore hold it can accualy full fill the role of ore hauler. oooor it can mine for around...3 hours all alone wihtout the need to unload thanks to the fact that it does have a large cargo hold and good mining abilities. On top of being super tough with some decent drone damage to booth. Man!... I love this thing. |
Cade Windstalker
571
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 14:50:36 -
[212] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Yeah, a maxed out boosted Hulk hits around 3km3/m pretty easily. The Orca doesn't even mine as much as a boosted Skiff, though one Orca boosting other mining ships makes a pretty nice total contribution. People always complain about how there is no reason to bring an orca out to the belt when you only have 1-2 people mining. Because the orca itself cant really contribute to the mining op, making it a better choice to just bring another mining barge. Now the orca will be capable of accualy contributing to the op with its enhanced mining drones, making it a loot more viable to bring one to the belt. And when its solo then heck. it can still be used thanks to the fact that it mines like an unboosted exhumer. And with its vastly increased ore hold it can accualy full fill the role of ore hauler. oooor it can mine for around...3 hours all alone wihtout the need to unload thanks to the fact that it does have a large cargo hold and good mining abilities. On top of being super tough with some decent drone damage to booth. Its one weakness I guess is the fact that its so slow. altough I dont know what the 100m mass decrease is gonna do to it. Will the after burrner give a better speed boost? cause it curently dosent even give the orca a 100% speed boost. will be intresting to see. Man!... I love this thing.
Oh, yeah, the mining amount here is a nice buff. Not at all trying to say it's insignificant, I'm just saying that I don't think we'll see very many solo Orca miners because you're better off with a single Skiff than a single Orca unless you have a *really* long warp.
Personally I think I'd put the mining yield of the Orca at around the level of a Mining Barge or a full-tank Skiff, which seems pretty reasonable. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
64
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 14:57:43 -
[213] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:RainReaper wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Yeah, a maxed out boosted Hulk hits around 3km3/m pretty easily. The Orca doesn't even mine as much as a boosted Skiff, though one Orca boosting other mining ships makes a pretty nice total contribution. People always complain about how there is no reason to bring an orca out to the belt when you only have 1-2 people mining. Because the orca itself cant really contribute to the mining op, making it a better choice to just bring another mining barge. Now the orca will be capable of accualy contributing to the op with its enhanced mining drones, making it a loot more viable to bring one to the belt. And when its solo then heck. it can still be used thanks to the fact that it mines like an unboosted exhumer. And with its vastly increased ore hold it can accualy full fill the role of ore hauler. oooor it can mine for around...3 hours all alone wihtout the need to unload thanks to the fact that it does have a large cargo hold and good mining abilities. On top of being super tough with some decent drone damage to booth. Its one weakness I guess is the fact that its so slow. altough I dont know what the 100m mass decrease is gonna do to it. Will the after burrner give a better speed boost? cause it curently dosent even give the orca a 100% speed boost. will be intresting to see. Man!... I love this thing. Oh, yeah, the mining amount here is a nice buff. Not at all trying to say it's insignificant, I'm just saying that I don't think we'll see very many solo Orca miners because you're better off with a single Skiff than a single Orca unless you have a *really* long warp. Personally I think I'd put the mining yield of the Orca at around the level of a Mining Barge or a full-tank Skiff, which seems pretty reasonable.
When you have no drone mining rigs on it yeah but if you go full out on that then id say it can mine prety damn good lol. and again that ore hold will let it mine for 2-3 hours. depending on if you do fit it for full tank or full yield lol. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
65
|
Posted - 2016.10.13 18:45:30 -
[214] - Quote
I have to ask, will we be geting an updated Orca hull soon? Im jsut saying it would be nice if we could get vissible drone bays on the Orca like you did with the barges. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
65
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 00:10:49 -
[215] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:I have to ask, will we be geting an updated Orca hull soon? Im jsut saying it would be nice if we could get vissible drone bays on the Orca like you did with the barges.
id say scrath what i said before!
on the test server the orca have little lights moving from around difrent poitns on the hull on the test server! and there is like 9 new skins for all the industrial command ships! holy hek its cool! |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
65
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 00:16:25 -
[216] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:RainReaper wrote:I have to ask, will we be geting an updated Orca hull soon? Im jsut saying it would be nice if we could get vissible drone bays on the Orca like you did with the barges. id say scrath what i said before! on the test server the orca have little lights moving from around difrent poitns on the hull on the test server! and there is like 9 new skins for all the industrial command ships! holy hek its cool!
THE BARGES HAVE IT TOO MY GOOOOOD |
Cade Windstalker
572
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 01:32:36 -
[217] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:RainReaper wrote:RainReaper wrote:I have to ask, will we be geting an updated Orca hull soon? Im jsut saying it would be nice if we could get vissible drone bays on the Orca like you did with the barges. id say scrath what i said before! on the test server the orca have little lights moving from around difrent poitns on the hull on the test server! and there is like 9 new skins for all the industrial command ships! holy hek its cool! THE BARGES HAVE IT TOO MY GOOOOOD
I wonder if this means we'll get actual pirate mining ships for the Mining spawns instead of haulers and Carriers. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1155
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 14:48:06 -
[218] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:RainReaper wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Yeah, a maxed out boosted Hulk hits around 3km3/m pretty easily. The Orca doesn't even mine as much as a boosted Skiff, though one Orca boosting other mining ships makes a pretty nice total contribution. People always complain about how there is no reason to bring an orca out to the belt when you only have 1-2 people mining. Because the orca itself cant really contribute to the mining op, making it a better choice to just bring another mining barge. Now the orca will be capable of accualy contributing to the op with its enhanced mining drones, making it a loot more viable to bring one to the belt. And when its solo then heck. it can still be used thanks to the fact that it mines like an unboosted exhumer. And with its vastly increased ore hold it can accualy full fill the role of ore hauler. oooor it can mine for around...3 hours all alone wihtout the need to unload thanks to the fact that it does have a large cargo hold and good mining abilities. On top of being super tough with some decent drone damage to booth. Its one weakness I guess is the fact that its so slow. altough I dont know what the 100m mass decrease is gonna do to it. Will the after burrner give a better speed boost? cause it curently dosent even give the orca a 100% speed boost. will be intresting to see. Man!... I love this thing. Oh, yeah, the mining amount here is a nice buff. Not at all trying to say it's insignificant, I'm just saying that I don't think we'll see very many solo Orca miners because you're better off with a single Skiff than a single Orca unless you have a *really* long warp. Personally I think I'd put the mining yield of the Orca at around the level of a Mining Barge or a full-tank Skiff, which seems pretty reasonable. When you have no drone mining rigs on it yeah but if you go full out on that then id say it can mine prety damn good lol. and again that ore hold will let it mine for 2-3 hours. depending on if you do fit it for full tank or full yield lol. PS #formom And how efficient that is, 2 or 3 hours sitting in an ice belt, with your one drone out there doing its thing, for one load of ice. When you could use a Skiff and mine twice as much in the same time. That is, if the ice belt stays there long enough for you to fill the Orca, most of the ones around near my operation are gone in an hour.
So unless CCP has plans to remove multiboxing, I wouldn't count on making too much isk with your billion isk mining Orca and its drone.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
67
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 14:50:22 -
[219] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:RainReaper wrote:RainReaper wrote:RainReaper wrote:I have to ask, will we be geting an updated Orca hull soon? Im jsut saying it would be nice if we could get vissible drone bays on the Orca like you did with the barges. id say scrath what i said before! on the test server the orca have little lights moving from around difrent poitns on the hull on the test server! and there is like 9 new skins for all the industrial command ships! holy hek its cool! THE BARGES HAVE IT TOO MY GOOOOOD I wonder if this means we'll get actual pirate mining ships for the Mining spawns instead of haulers and Carriers.
Accualy if you check the lastest releases and nov 8 you can see all the way down in the list that there will be more acctivity in the asteroid belts, with a prowler/wreathe with a angel skin on it surrounded by 3 angel battleships, so npcs will have mining ops themselves. i think nov 8 will be the most intresting expansion yet with new industry buffs to ships and nerfs(complexes) and even npcs having their own ops. altough i do wonder. will they mine up the ore? or will they jsut move around the belts and look like they are mining but not accualy taking the ore from the belts. will be intresting as fack to see it all take place lol |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
67
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 14:52:59 -
[220] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:RainReaper wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:RainReaper wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Yeah, a maxed out boosted Hulk hits around 3km3/m pretty easily. The Orca doesn't even mine as much as a boosted Skiff, though one Orca boosting other mining ships makes a pretty nice total contribution. People always complain about how there is no reason to bring an orca out to the belt when you only have 1-2 people mining. Because the orca itself cant really contribute to the mining op, making it a better choice to just bring another mining barge. Now the orca will be capable of accualy contributing to the op with its enhanced mining drones, making it a loot more viable to bring one to the belt. And when its solo then heck. it can still be used thanks to the fact that it mines like an unboosted exhumer. And with its vastly increased ore hold it can accualy full fill the role of ore hauler. oooor it can mine for around...3 hours all alone wihtout the need to unload thanks to the fact that it does have a large cargo hold and good mining abilities. On top of being super tough with some decent drone damage to booth. Its one weakness I guess is the fact that its so slow. altough I dont know what the 100m mass decrease is gonna do to it. Will the after burrner give a better speed boost? cause it curently dosent even give the orca a 100% speed boost. will be intresting to see. Man!... I love this thing. Oh, yeah, the mining amount here is a nice buff. Not at all trying to say it's insignificant, I'm just saying that I don't think we'll see very many solo Orca miners because you're better off with a single Skiff than a single Orca unless you have a *really* long warp. Personally I think I'd put the mining yield of the Orca at around the level of a Mining Barge or a full-tank Skiff, which seems pretty reasonable. When you have no drone mining rigs on it yeah but if you go full out on that then id say it can mine prety damn good lol. and again that ore hold will let it mine for 2-3 hours. depending on if you do fit it for full tank or full yield lol. PS #formom And how efficient that is, 2 or 3 hours sitting in an ice belt, with your one drone out there doing its thing, for one load of ice. When you could use a Skiff and mine twice as much in the same time. That is, if the ice belt stays there long enough for you to fill the Orca, most of the ones around near my operation are gone in an hour. So unless CCP has plans to remove multiboxing, I wouldn't count on making too much isk with your billion isk mining Orca and its drone. lol hey it all depends on how quick that one drone does mine. and the orca got a role 25% time reduction and also a total 50% reduction with industrial command ship skill att lv 5. on top of 25% from the ice drone skill and an auditional 10% from the ice drone specialisation skill. ofcourse im not saying that its gonna measure up to a bonused exhumer. but i dont think it will be slow lol |
|
Cade Windstalker
578
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 15:59:45 -
[221] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:And how efficient that is, 2 or 3 hours sitting in an ice belt, with your one drone out there doing its thing, for one load of ice. When you could use a Skiff and mine twice as much in the same time. That is, if the ice belt stays there long enough for you to fill the Orca, most of the ones around near my operation are gone in an hour.
So unless CCP has plans to remove multiboxing, I wouldn't count on making too much isk with your billion isk mining Orca and its drone.
FYI an Orca actually mines slightly better than a solo Skiff. Skiff mines about 1400 m3/m max, Orca mines around 1600 m3/m max. That doesn't factor in travel time but if you snuggle up to the rock then you should at least break even with a Skiff's mining rate. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3665
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 19:22:30 -
[222] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: FYI an Orca actually mines slightly better than a solo Skiff. Skiff mines about 1400 m3/m max, Orca mines around 1600 m3/m max. That doesn't factor in travel time but if you snuggle up to the rock then you should at least break even with a Skiff's mining rate.
Are you comparing a T2 Skiff without mining drones with a faction fitted orca here? Remember that the numbers CCP have put forward are max rigged faction/officer fitted fits. Not sensible T2 fits. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
|
Posted - 2016.10.14 19:25:58 -
[223] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: FYI an Orca actually mines slightly better than a solo Skiff. Skiff mines about 1400 m3/m max, Orca mines around 1600 m3/m max. That doesn't factor in travel time but if you snuggle up to the rock then you should at least break even with a Skiff's mining rate.
Are you comparing a T2 Skiff without mining drones with a faction fitted orca here? Remember that the numbers CCP have put forward are max rigged faction/officer fitted fits. Not sensible T2 fits. Is there anything that affects the drones other than the rigs? Obviously we'll have the faction drones themselves which may be prohibitive if they become a target, but aside from rig slots the native HP still makes for s decent defense and leaves slots to spare for other things.
|
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1155
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 01:01:17 -
[224] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:And how efficient that is, 2 or 3 hours sitting in an ice belt, with your one drone out there doing its thing, for one load of ice. When you could use a Skiff and mine twice as much in the same time. That is, if the ice belt stays there long enough for you to fill the Orca, most of the ones around near my operation are gone in an hour.
So unless CCP has plans to remove multiboxing, I wouldn't count on making too much isk with your billion isk mining Orca and its drone.
FYI an Orca actually mines slightly better than a solo Skiff. Skiff mines about 1400 m3/m max, Orca mines around 1600 m3/m max. That doesn't factor in travel time but if you snuggle up to the rock then you should at least break even with a Skiff's mining rate. I think you missed the idea I was trying to get across.
An Orca will have ONE ice mining drone to mine with.
A skiff, will have 2 lasers PLUS an ice mining drone.
Now unless my math is really bad - An Orca will never pull more ice than a Skiff in the same time period.
I dunno, maybe others aren't thinking about using these new drones on exhumers for the faster "full load" times - But I will be.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1155
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 01:11:00 -
[225] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote: FYI an Orca actually mines slightly better than a solo Skiff. Skiff mines about 1400 m3/m max, Orca mines around 1600 m3/m max. That doesn't factor in travel time but if you snuggle up to the rock then you should at least break even with a Skiff's mining rate.
Are you comparing a T2 Skiff without mining drones with a faction fitted orca here? Remember that the numbers CCP have put forward are max rigged faction/officer fitted fits. Not sensible T2 fits. Is there anything that affects the drones other than the rigs? Obviously we'll have the faction drones themselves which may be prohibitive if they become a target, but aside from rig slots the native HP still makes for s decent defense and leaves slots to spare for other things. Roughly, the rigs (2 X T2 + 1 X T1) with stacking penalties will roughly increase your yield by about 200m/s per minute and with less tank, make your Orca more vulnerable to gankers and or have 90K cargo space less.
200 or 300 per minute vs more cargo space or more tank - I suppose it depends on how rich you are to start with and what the insurance payout for a dead Orca is.
Personally, I think gankers will be targeting Orca's. For at least the first few months after the changes, we will see a lot of Orca lossmails.
Add to that, the drones Devs have based max yields on, will be very expensive, again, at least for the first few months..
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
71
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 01:50:19 -
[226] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:And how efficient that is, 2 or 3 hours sitting in an ice belt, with your one drone out there doing its thing, for one load of ice. When you could use a Skiff and mine twice as much in the same time. That is, if the ice belt stays there long enough for you to fill the Orca, most of the ones around near my operation are gone in an hour.
So unless CCP has plans to remove multiboxing, I wouldn't count on making too much isk with your billion isk mining Orca and its drone.
FYI an Orca actually mines slightly better than a solo Skiff. Skiff mines about 1400 m3/m max, Orca mines around 1600 m3/m max. That doesn't factor in travel time but if you snuggle up to the rock then you should at least break even with a Skiff's mining rate. I think you missed the idea I was trying to get across. An Orca will have ONE ice mining drone to mine with. A skiff, will have 2 lasers PLUS an ice mining drone. Now unless my math is really bad - An Orca will never pull more ice than a Skiff in the same time period. I dunno, maybe others aren't thinking about using these new drones on exhumers for the faster "full load" times - But I will be.
i do have to ask. do you know what the final stats of the new ice mining drone will be? not to be rude but id say tis a bit early to assume anything just yet. the ice mining drone might have prety damn good base harvesting time. and combined with the orcas base 25% time reduction AND its total 50% time reduction from the industrial command ship skill it might mine around 2 blocks by the time the skiffs 2 ice harvesters finish a cycle each. now for sure when you combine a skiff with both ice harvesters and an ice mining drone i do belive that it might be a bit faster. but the orca is most likely very close. ofcourse it will be slower the further away form the asteroid the orca is. but you can keep it as close as possible to ensure you get best possible mining time. and again it is in no way shape or form supsoed to outclass the main mining barge ships. cause im sure ccp dosent want them to become obselete, exept with the rorqual but hey tis expensive as heck and super risky to activate that siege to accuire that 18k a min mining rate lol |
Cade Windstalker
582
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 02:34:29 -
[227] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Are you comparing a T2 Skiff without mining drones with a faction fitted orca here? Remember that the numbers CCP have put forward are max rigged faction/officer fitted fits. Not sensible T2 fits.
I was actually comparing base yields on ore, not ice. We don't actually know how much the Ice Mining drones are going to give in yield and per CCP they're going to rely heavily on the ship and link bonuses to be effective.
Other than that yes did forget to turn on the mining drones, but the Orca I was comparing against was just using a T2 fit, T2 rigs, and Augmented mining drones per this post over here.
With mining drones the Orca and Skiff are just about at parity (1620 vs 1619) though that's without the new Drone Spec, and I have no idea what the ice mining is going to look like. Generally speaking though it looks like a Skiff and an Orca are going mine about the same amount.
Sgt Ocker wrote:I think you missed the idea I was trying to get across.
An Orca will have ONE ice mining drone to mine with.
A skiff, will have 2 lasers PLUS an ice mining drone.
Now unless my math is really bad - An Orca will never pull more ice than a Skiff in the same time period.
I dunno, maybe others aren't thinking about using these new drones on exhumers for the faster "full load" times - But I will be.
Yes, your math is bad.
Per the blog post by CCP:
Quote:To avoid any major danger to the ice mining market, these drones rely heavily on the bonuses provided by mining foreman ships to be competitive (but they can be used by any ship that has 50mbits of bandwidth available)
So a single Skiff isn't going to get much out of his Ice Mining drone while a single Orca will.
Sgt Ocker wrote:Roughly, the rigs (2 X T2 + 1 X T1) with stacking penalties will roughly increase your yield by about 200m/s per minute and with less tank, make your Orca more vulnerable to gankers and or have 90K cargo space less.
200 or 300 per minute vs more cargo space or more tank - I suppose it depends on how rich you are to start with and what the insurance payout for a dead Orca is.
Personally, I think gankers will be targeting Orca's. For at least the first few months after the changes, we will see a lot of Orca lossmails.
Add to that, the drones Devs have based max yields on, will be very expensive, again, at least for the first few months..
The rigs aren't stacking penalized, per this person's post.
In high-sec Orcas are almost impossible to gank profitably. You might be able to pull it off if the thing was full of higher end Ores or Ice but even without tank rigs they have too much EHP to be worthwhile targets. Doubly so since this patch is only increasing the EHP of the Orca. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3666
|
Posted - 2016.10.15 04:43:44 -
[228] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:The rigs aren't stacking penalized, per this person's post.In high-sec Orcas are almost impossible to gank profitably. You might be able to pull it off if the thing was full of higher end Ores or Ice but even without tank rigs they have too much EHP to be worthwhile targets. Doubly so since this patch is only increasing the EHP of the Orca. If the rigs aren't stacking penalised then that's a bug happening and shouldn't be calculated on. |
Alana Packham
Wardec Solutions
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 12:11:34 -
[229] - Quote
A bigger tank and remote shield boosters wont help in hi, fitting an anchor will, a fast ship can bump one of these out of any useful range for mining boosts, remote shield boosts and mining drone range in less than a minute. You can't warp away, you cant fight them without losing your ship to concord, in fact you can't do anything and the fleet you're supposed to be helping is on its own.
The new command boost system has just made the ship totally pointless as it can be continually pushed, it always could be ofc but at least when you were 10k away with a stabber up your bum the mining boost still worked.
If you want one of these in hi then make sure you have the exhumer skill as that's what you're going to be flying or a lot of munchies as you watch your ship being pushed around.
CCP sells cheap multiple accounts, they want them.
Every Multi-Accounter has weaknesses, look for them before crying 'It's not fair'.
|
Echo Mande
86
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 14:05:06 -
[230] - Quote
Alana Packham wrote:Fit anchors on mining command ships in hi Which is precisely why I've suggested allowing the Orca to use the Industrial Cores, with slight modifications to their effects (half or less fuel usage, burst strength bonus and drone bonuses).
IMO the Orca is best used as a support platform that stays on station in the belt with the miners. Using one IMO means you've got a hauler alt available to haul (compressed) ore to station.
Wallet remarks everywhere
|
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1160
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 14:21:51 -
[231] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Nevyn Auscent wrote:Are you comparing a T2 Skiff without mining drones with a faction fitted orca here? Remember that the numbers CCP have put forward are max rigged faction/officer fitted fits. Not sensible T2 fits. I was actually comparing base yields on ore, not ice. We don't actually know how much the Ice Mining drones are going to give in yield and per CCP they're going to rely heavily on the ship and link bonuses to be effective. Other than that yes did forget to turn on the mining drones, but the Orca I was comparing against was just using a T2 fit, T2 rigs, and Augmented mining drones per this post over here.With mining drones the Orca and Skiff are just about at parity (1620 vs 1619) though that's without the new Drone Spec, and I have no idea what the ice mining is going to look like. Generally speaking though it looks like a Skiff and an Orca are going mine about the same amount. Sgt Ocker wrote:I think you missed the idea I was trying to get across.
An Orca will have ONE ice mining drone to mine with.
A skiff, will have 2 lasers PLUS an ice mining drone.
Now unless my math is really bad - An Orca will never pull more ice than a Skiff in the same time period.
I dunno, maybe others aren't thinking about using these new drones on exhumers for the faster "full load" times - But I will be. Yes, your math is bad. Per the blog post by CCP: Quote:To avoid any major danger to the ice mining market, these drones rely heavily on the bonuses provided by mining foreman ships to be competitive (but they can be used by any ship that has 50mbits of bandwidth available) So a single Skiff isn't going to get much out of his Ice Mining drone while a single Orca will. Sgt Ocker wrote:Roughly, the rigs (2 X T2 + 1 X T1) with stacking penalties will roughly increase your yield by about 200m/s per minute and with less tank, make your Orca more vulnerable to gankers and or have 90K cargo space less.
200 or 300 per minute vs more cargo space or more tank - I suppose it depends on how rich you are to start with and what the insurance payout for a dead Orca is.
Personally, I think gankers will be targeting Orca's. For at least the first few months after the changes, we will see a lot of Orca lossmails.
Add to that, the drones Devs have based max yields on, will be very expensive, again, at least for the first few months.. The rigs aren't stacking penalized, per this person's post.In high-sec Orcas are almost impossible to gank profitably. You might be able to pull it off if the thing was full of higher end Ores or Ice but even without tank rigs they have too much EHP to be worthwhile targets. Doubly so since this patch is only increasing the EHP of the Orca. So, I'm wrong. Tell me, Dev blog states an Orca with ice mining drone and max skills will mine what an Exhumer does now - OK I can live with that - But, at the same time an exhumer will also be able to use an ice mining drone, not bonused but can use it. So, an Orca pulls what an exhumer can now but then you add the ice mining drone to an Exhumer - Wouldn't the Exhumer then be pulling more than an Orca?
I'm pretty dumb but if the Orca only pulls what an exhumer does now and the Exhumer can then use a drone to increase its yield, how would the Orca be pulling the same as an Exhumer? Would the Exhumer not be pulling more?
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Mole Guy
Band of Builders Inc. Silent Infinity
456
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 19:20:16 -
[232] - Quote
what about mining boosts and those belts that are 1300km wide?
some of the roids are 100km apart which means we will have to boost a miner and they warp to it. on the drone miners, especially the rorqual, we siege and strip a roid, then wait 5 minutes to move to a new roid to siege again.
any chance to shrink those fields since we dont have system wide boosts anymore? |
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
19
|
Posted - 2016.10.16 22:09:48 -
[233] - Quote
Tyberius Franklin wrote:Is there anything that affects the drones other than the rigs? Obviously we'll have the faction drones themselves which may be prohibitive if they become a target, but aside from rig slots the native HP still makes for s decent defense and leaves slots to spare for other things.
Possibly Drone Nav Comps - which should increase the travel speed. I know that works for Salvage Drones. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
75
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 09:07:58 -
[234] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Is there anything that affects the drones other than the rigs? Obviously we'll have the faction drones themselves which may be prohibitive if they become a target, but aside from rig slots the native HP still makes for s decent defense and leaves slots to spare for other things.
Possibly Drone Nav Comps - which should increase the travel speed. I know that works for Salvage Drones.
this is a good idea! drone nav computers to increase the yield from having my mining drones move faster! dident think about it att first lol
BTW you what i think would be cool now that mining drones is something that can be considered? MLU low slot moduels that affect drones. we have drone damage amps so why not make drone mining upgrades? |
Uhdana Di'Clutz
Drifter Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 10:01:24 -
[235] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Penance Toralen wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Is there anything that affects the drones other than the rigs? Obviously we'll have the faction drones themselves which may be prohibitive if they become a target, but aside from rig slots the native HP still makes for s decent defense and leaves slots to spare for other things.
Possibly Drone Nav Comps - which should increase the travel speed. I know that works for Salvage Drones. this is a good idea! drone nav computers to increase the yield from having my mining drones move faster! dident think about it att first lol BTW you what i think would be cool now that mining drones is something that can be considered? MLU low slot moduels that affect drones. we have drone damage amps so why not make drone mining upgrades? Been a while since I read the changes planned but I beleave they do plan for this. Was either the DDA's effecting mining or they were adding in a mining variant. |
Samsara Toldya
Academy of Contradictory Behaviour
858
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 10:05:53 -
[236] - Quote
RainReaper wrote:Penance Toralen wrote:Possibly Drone Nav Comps - which should increase the travel speed. I know that works for Salvage Drones. this is a good idea! drone nav computers to increase the yield from having my mining drones move faster! dident think about it att first lol
Unlike Combat Drones, Mining Drones don't have Microwarpdrives. They won't benefit from Drone Navigation Computers.
|
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1161
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 10:41:08 -
[237] - Quote
Uhdana Di'Clutz wrote:RainReaper wrote:Penance Toralen wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Is there anything that affects the drones other than the rigs? Obviously we'll have the faction drones themselves which may be prohibitive if they become a target, but aside from rig slots the native HP still makes for s decent defense and leaves slots to spare for other things.
Possibly Drone Nav Comps - which should increase the travel speed. I know that works for Salvage Drones. this is a good idea! drone nav computers to increase the yield from having my mining drones move faster! dident think about it att first lol BTW you what i think would be cool now that mining drones is something that can be considered? MLU low slot moduels that affect drones. we have drone damage amps so why not make drone mining upgrades? Been a while since I read the changes planned but I beleave they do plan for this. Was either the DDA's effecting mining or they were adding in a mining variant. Is there another blog I've missed that gives us further information about the new mining drones - Or (more likely) are players best guessing?
NB; I believe the DDA's was in reference to reaching DPS cap - Not sure it mentioned anything about increasing yields for Orca or Rorqual.
Of course if they do introduce a specific module for increasing mining yield - It will be fun killing Orcas and Rorquals using them - Instead of damage or tank mods.
I'm thinking my miners might need to cross train into combat ships - For highsec wardecs on groups using Orcas.. I don't mind a bit of PVP and if even half the Orca's end up fit as some have suggested here, it will be fun killmails.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Cade Windstalker
583
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 14:24:20 -
[238] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:So, I'm wrong. Tell me, Dev blog states an Orca with ice mining drone and max skills will mine what an Exhumer does now - OK I can live with that - But, at the same time an exhumer will also be able to use an ice mining drone, not bonused but can use it. So, an Orca pulls what an exhumer can now but then you add the ice mining drone to an Exhumer - Wouldn't the Exhumer then be pulling more than an Orca?
I'm pretty dumb but if the Orca only pulls what an exhumer does now and the Exhumer can then use a drone to increase its yield, how would the Orca be pulling the same as an Exhumer? Would the Exhumer not be pulling more?
The long and the short of it is that we don't know, but right now from what's in the blog post I'd say either no, that's factored into the statement about the Orca's yield, or yes but with an unbonussed drone it's not a significant amount more. Looking at the bonuses on the Orca and working backwards it looks like that single mining drone will run about 175m3/m with max skills and not counting travel time. That is assuming that I've done my math right though. With maxed riggs for Ice Drone mining I'm showing an Orca with an effective drone count of 9.23 from that one Ice Mining Drone.
Sgt Ocker wrote:I think you'll find the rigs will have a stacking penalty by the time this goes live..
Possibly, but we don't know for sure. Not all rigs have stacking penalties, but either way if they do or don't that means that's what they're balanced around.
Sgt Ocker wrote:As for unprofitable ganking, your joking aren't you - Much of the ganking that goes on is not profitable, it is done because they can do it - If they make a profit it is a bonus. EG; a single cat ganking a single retriever is not anywhere near profitable, the catalyst gets nothing but a gank mail - But, it is still one of the most favorite pass times of gankers. Ganking empty freighters, uields no profit but looking at the lossmails, it is quite common - Ganking isn't about profit, it is about disruption and the jollies of the gankers.
But most of the gankers are engaged in for-profit ganking or at least break even ganks, because that's the easiest form of ganking to maintain. Plus you get less of a reaction when the industrialist looks at what you lost and immediately starts laughing about how much ISK you lost to deny him a few minutes or hours of mining. The few people who do tend to take a 'gank whatever' approach tend to only target cheap ships or pods that can be killed with a single 2m ISK Catalyst.
As for the assertion that people commonly gank empty freighters, the killmails say otherwise. Of all the Freighter losses in High Sec for October 16th only *three* were empty (A Bowhead and two Fenrirs), and all appear to have been lost to war-decs given the faction ships on the killmails and apparent lack of concord response. All others had cargo and all but one of the probable gank targets dropped at least 800m (the one exception was a CODE gank that was carrying fuel blocks and nothing else, and loot fairy said no )
More to the point, the more ships that it takes to kill something the harder it is to gank that target at all. The reason your example there is a Retriever is because it's fairly easy to gank and even reasonably easy to gank profitably if you find one fitted right (or wrong, depending on your perspective). Orcas, on the other hand, are more often bumped than ganked because you need a large number of people to gank one on the cheap, or a still significant number of more expensive ships to gank one with minimal people. |
Uhdana Di'Clutz
Drifter Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.17 16:56:23 -
[239] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Uhdana Di'Clutz wrote:RainReaper wrote:Penance Toralen wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote:Is there anything that affects the drones other than the rigs? Obviously we'll have the faction drones themselves which may be prohibitive if they become a target, but aside from rig slots the native HP still makes for s decent defense and leaves slots to spare for other things.
Possibly Drone Nav Comps - which should increase the travel speed. I know that works for Salvage Drones. this is a good idea! drone nav computers to increase the yield from having my mining drones move faster! dident think about it att first lol BTW you what i think would be cool now that mining drones is something that can be considered? MLU low slot moduels that affect drones. we have drone damage amps so why not make drone mining upgrades? Been a while since I read the changes planned but I beleave they do plan for this. Was either the DDA's effecting mining or they were adding in a mining variant. Is there another blog I've missed that gives us further information about the new mining drones - Or (more likely) are players best guessing? NB; I believe the DDA's was in reference to reaching DPS cap - Not sure it mentioned anything about increasing yields for Orca or Rorqual. Of course if they do introduce a specific module for increasing mining yield - It will be fun killing Orcas and Rorquals using them - Instead of damage or tank mods. I'm thinking my miners might need to cross train into combat ships - For highsec wardecs on groups using Orcas.. I don't mind a bit of PVP and if even half the Orca's end up fit as some have suggested here, it will be fun killmails. It very well could of been player's wishful thinking. Thought I read about it in a comment from a csm or dev in one of the many discussions about the changes. Couldn't find the actual post now that I've gone back through looking for it. Thought it was in reference to what was needed for max yield calculations. |
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
52
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 08:43:06 -
[240] - Quote
I guess CCP is just going to ignore all the feedback that the orca will be broken in high sec.
1. It needs to lose way more hull ehp 2. the lower mass will be interesting, 2500 m/s orcas when bumped will be used for some crazy shenanigans 3. dedicated bays are very strong, maybe not too strong on the orca, because it removes the need to fit cargo expanders and the disadvantages that come with that |
|
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1164
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 09:46:11 -
[241] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:I guess CCP is just going to ignore all the feedback that the orca will be broken in high sec.
1. It needs to lose way more hull ehp 2. the lower mass will be interesting, 2500 m/s orcas when bumped will be used for some crazy shenanigans 3. dedicated bays are very strong, maybe not too strong on the orca, because it removes the need to fit cargo expanders and the disadvantages that come with that 1. Why? There is no reason to reduce it further,especially when you consider it will be stuck on grid. What reasoning goes with your statement? Why does it need to have hull reduced?
2. It may but I'm pretty sure it won't last, not many players will keep doing something that has no reward at all. So unless Orca pilots decide to pay ransom to bumpers, it will die a natural death pretty fast. The perfect counter to bumpers is, ignore them, they'll give up eventually. They are no more than a small nuisance, unless you start to pay them, then they will never go away.. If anything CCP should come up with a way to provide limited engagements between bumping victims and bumpers.
3. Without cargo expanders and cargo rigs - The extra space is less than 40K - Or around 3 or 4 minutes longer to fill it than current.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Kosa DeGrey
rRED ANTS P-A-T-R-I-O-T-S
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 11:19:32 -
[242] - Quote
-¦-Ç-+-+-ï -ì-é-+ -à-+-Ç-+-ê-+ -+-+ -+-¦-Ç-â -¦-â-Ç-+-¦-ï-à -+-¦-+-¦-Ç-+-¦ -+-¦ -+-+-+-¦-ê-¦-+-+ -¦-ï |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
858
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 13:28:06 -
[243] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:I guess CCP is just going to ignore all the feedback that the orca will be broken in high sec.
1. It needs to lose way more hull ehp 2. the lower mass will be interesting, 2500 m/s orcas when bumped will be used for some crazy shenanigans 3. dedicated bays are very strong, maybe not too strong on the orca, because it removes the need to fit cargo expanders and the disadvantages that come with that
1. The EHP is for out of empire use since will be on belts now.. they don't have concord. Empire just gets a nice bene from that.
2. If the bumpers carry out their threats of bump I predict it will speed up ccp making the idea of 3 minute rule reality. It won't help on belt mining. It will however offset players petitioning when they just want to gtfo and an hour plus later they are still stuck
Petition start
Hey ccp.. I was bumped starting at 2200. Tried to break free of if for an hour and half, Gave up went to bed and said what happens happens. And you know what...I woke up 0600 checked eve for giggles and grins and they were still bumping me. When fishing in wow is more productive to do man you all are really on the right track to a great game.
Fix this please.
Petition End
I have no issues with limited bumping. Seen it deny a few caps whose cyno just a bit too far from slipping into shield/dock range. Thing is...you or your fleet mate bumped the carrier to deny the easy out, dictor and dps hauling ass to lock and drop. Bump with the intent to have backup show up in a timely manner and kill the ship properly...by all means.
Bump because this thrills them for hours and not even going to shoot the damn thing...that is just tarded really. I know some call it emergent game play. Burn Jita, hulkageddon, goon ice interdictions years back....thats emergent game play. Bumping for hours with no plans to commit to a kill....is not emergent. Its a silent cry for help of some kind. Or they need to get laid really really bad.
3. the cargo fills up fast. for mining or even hauling. Only bypass is with ships is to assemble and use the fleet hangar. Which can also fill up fast. Also you always get the people who don't tank their haulers. They will run the expanders no DCU or bulkhead. |
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
559
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 15:29:24 -
[244] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:
2. If the bumpers carry out their threats of bump I predict it will speed up ccp making the idea of 3 minute rule reality. It won't help on belt mining. It will however offset players petitioning when they just want to gtfo and an hour plus later they are still stuck
Petition start
Hey ccp.. I was bumped starting at 2200. Tried to break free of if for an hour and half, Gave up went to bed and said what happens happens. And you know what...I woke up 0600 checked eve for giggles and grins and they were still bumping me. When fishing in wow is more productive to do man you all are really on the right track to a great game.
Fix this please.
Petition End
I have no issues with limited bumping. Seen it deny a few caps whose cyno just a bit too far from slipping into shield/dock range. Thing is...you or your fleet mate bumped the carrier to deny the easy out, dictor and dps hauling ass to lock and drop. Bump with the intent to have backup show up in a timely manner and kill the ship properly...by all means.
Bump because this thrills them for hours and not even going to shoot the damn thing...that is just tarded really. I know some call it emergent game play. Burn Jita, hulkageddon, goon ice interdictions years back....thats emergent game play. Bumping for hours with no plans to commit to a kill....is not emergent. Its a silent cry for help of some kind. Or they need to get laid really really bad.
The way bumping Orcas will work is much like the old miner bumping before the rise of CODE.
After checking to see if the Orca pilot and his flock of minions have mining permits I will bump any non-compliant Orca away from the ice field. Once he's some 100-200 km away I will return to the ice field. If he attempts to slowboat back I will wait until he's getting close enough to start boosting again and I will bump him back to 100-200km.
If he chooses to warp away and warp back into the fleet I will await his return and then immediately bump him back to the aforementioned 100-200km. At all times I will remind him of his obligation to follow the Code and purchase a mining permit. Results on this are mixed as some miners suppose they have "honor!" and "principles!" and would rather suffer the complete shutdown of their boosting or mining than pay the low, never changed, 10 million ISK. These I will keep bumping as long as I choose. The introduction of the three minute "get out jail free" card won't affect my tactics.
In 2012/2013 before ganking became the main weapon of the New Order I often would bump a particular miner for as long as it took for either him to buy the permit, or give up and dock. I'm a little rusty now as I've spent the intervening years ganking miners but I look forward to dusting off the old Invincible Stabber FI and returning to bumping. Of course, my Stabber does fit a scanning module and I have the CODE. freighter ganking fleet on the batphone so they might come a callin'.
All this aside, bumping Orcas will be a reasonable response to a change in highsec mining abilities. You may consider it a reflection of some real life issue we bumpers have but it makes sense in terms of our stated goals for highsec. I like a kill mail as much as the next guy but I'm also fine with forcing another player to comply with my will in whatever method I have available. Bumping Orcas WILL be a thing.
Petitions away!
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
|
Sean Roach
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2016.10.19 19:05:13 -
[245] - Quote
I think the following changes are needed, as a block.
- Ships bumping into one another should do damage inversely proportional to their proportional mass and cause a Newtonian ricochet of both ships, again inversely proportional to their proportional mass. The damage should bypass shield, but not armor. A little stabber bumping a freighter should flatten itself against the hull of that massive ship, with 100% shield and hull damage, before getting it to move by more than a minute of angle. The massive ship should get a scratch. Easily fixed by an armor repper.
- A minigame should pop up every 1D10 mining or salvaging cycles, or drone mining/salvaging cycles, per module/drone. Something simple that functions as a CAPTCHA. An "Are you on station" check. Don't do this to combat, or things will get really hairy really fast, and there's already plenty of reason to stay on station when you're up against moving targets.
Possibly put a timer on the latter, so if you don't address the minigame, or shut down the strip miner/mining laser/salvager within some pre-set time frame, (say, 30 seconds), you get overheating damage to the module or hull damage to the drone. Choices for a minigame could be, fixing a jammed component via remote damage bypass, (similar to the hacking mechanic,) extinguishing a fire, fine-tuning a notch filter to catch the correct elements rather than the chaff, etc.
The combination would heavily nerf bumping, while addressing the supposed issue that "justifies" bumping in the first place: AFK play.
Personally, my reading of the complaints of Orca changes, by the ganker/bumpers is "It's weaker, sure, but it's not weak enough for me". |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1164
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 08:50:34 -
[246] - Quote
Sean Roach wrote:I think the following changes are needed, as a block.
- Ships bumping into one another should do damage inversely proportional to their proportional mass and cause a Newtonian ricochet of both ships, again inversely proportional to their proportional mass. The damage should bypass shield, but not armor. A little stabber bumping a freighter should flatten itself against the hull of that massive ship, with 100% armor and hull damage, before getting it to move by more than a minute of angle. The massive ship should get a scratch. Easily fixed by an armor repper.
- A minigame should pop up every 1D10 mining or salvaging cycles, or drone mining/salvaging cycles, per module/drone. Something simple that functions as a CAPTCHA. An "Are you on station" check. Don't do this to combat, or things will get really hairy really fast, and there's already plenty of reason to stay on station when you're up against moving targets.
Possibly put a timer on the latter, so if you don't address the minigame, or shut down the strip miner/mining laser/salvager within some pre-set time frame, (say, 30 seconds), you get overheating damage to the module or hull damage to the drone. Choices for a minigame could be, fixing a jammed component via remote damage bypass, (similar to the hacking mechanic,) extinguishing a fire, fine-tuning a notch filter to catch the correct elements rather than the chaff, etc.
The combination would heavily nerf bumping, while addressing the supposed issue that "justifies" bumping in the first place: AFK play. Personally, my reading of the complaints of Orca changes, by the ganker/bumpers is "It's weaker, sure, but it's not weak enough for me". A mini game for miners? Your joking right, you have to be because no sane person would even suggest such a thing. If a miner wants to AFK (not as common as one might think), it is his or her right - To risk their ships and income by not paying attention. For multi boxers (a large amount of miners) anything added to it would just be a headache, I'd rather put up with bumpers than be forced to cycle through all my miners every few minutes to do a stupid minigame. I gave up relic and data sites and Discovery is a pita - Should i be forced to give up mining too?
You want the cost of everything in Eve to go up and CCP to lose thousands of subs - Get them to add a mini game to mining.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Cade Windstalker
594
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 14:42:50 -
[247] - Quote
Sean Roach wrote:I think the following changes are needed, as a block.
- Ships bumping into one another should do damage inversely proportional to their proportional mass and cause a Newtonian ricochet of both ships, again inversely proportional to their proportional mass. The damage should bypass shield, but not armor. A little stabber bumping a freighter should flatten itself against the hull of that massive ship, with 100% armor and hull damage, before getting it to move by more than a minute of angle. The massive ship should get a scratch. Easily fixed by an armor repper.
- A minigame should pop up every 1D10 mining or salvaging cycles, or drone mining/salvaging cycles, per module/drone. Something simple that functions as a CAPTCHA. An "Are you on station" check. Don't do this to combat, or things will get really hairy really fast, and there's already plenty of reason to stay on station when you're up against moving targets.
Possibly put a timer on the latter, so if you don't address the minigame, or shut down the strip miner/mining laser/salvager within some pre-set time frame, (say, 30 seconds), you get overheating damage to the module or hull damage to the drone. Choices for a minigame could be, fixing a jammed component via remote damage bypass, (similar to the hacking mechanic,) extinguishing a fire, fine-tuning a notch filter to catch the correct elements rather than the chaff, etc.
The combination would heavily nerf bumping, while addressing the supposed issue that "justifies" bumping in the first place: AFK play. Personally, my reading of the complaints of Orca changes, by the ganker/bumpers is "It's weaker, sure, but it's not weak enough for me".
Neither of these is a good idea.
#1 This just doesn't work. You need speed to be a factor because otherwise cyno jumps and anything else involving large numbers of ships becomes an instant orgy of destruction. This would be funny about once, like the time CCP accidentally made Stargates destructible on Sisi, and then it would get really annoying (literally what happened with the aforementioned stargates bug).
If you include speed then you, pretty much by definition, leave open the potential for suicide ramming as a tactic. Even if you cap the potential damage at the HP level of the ship you've still made ship HP a balance parameter for ganking, which is ridiculous and easily exploited. Just figure out what the cheapest frigate you can throw a MWD and some armor plates on is and go to town, Concord can't gank you, you're already exploded.
This doesn't even touch on how bad Eve's control scheme is for preventing collisions. It's not designed to be, because it doesn't have to, and the alternative is *much* easier. Tons of things would have to be redesigned if collisions caused damage.
#2 Captcha on games is just a terrible idea in general. If people want ot AFK then fine, that's great, they've just made themselves gank targets, not to mention less efficient.
If the idea here is to stop botters that'll work for about a week before they program the bots to play the game, at which point it's now more of a hindrance and annoyance to actual miners than it is to botters.
There's been talk among players for a while now that there should be some kind of optional minigame that boosts yield to make mining more engaging, the problem with this is that it's going to get old very quickly and it's a suggestion mostly proposed by non-miners to make mining fun for them, not by Miners who want something more to do while they're mining. |
Hallvardr
92
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 16:15:18 -
[248] - Quote
Having made my way thru these 12 pages and reading people's comments about this buff making the Orca OP, I suspect that these people that are crying are themselves not Orca pilots. Opinions negated.
Also, someone back around page 5 or 6 inferenced that the orca could now mount strip miners ... I do not think so sir. I didn't read anywhere in the dev blog of this being the case.
Also, as with most "buffs" there is a counter. What are the perceived downsides to this development. Nothing is free. ok- well maybe Alpha clones are but that's an anomaly. |
Arronicus
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Badfellas Inc.
1535
|
Posted - 2016.10.20 18:08:19 -
[249] - Quote
Sean Roach wrote:I think the following changes are needed, as a block.
- Ships bumping into one another should do damage inversely proportional to their proportional mass and cause a Newtonian ricochet of both ships, again inversely proportional to their proportional mass. The damage should bypass shield, but not armor. A little stabber bumping a freighter should flatten itself against the hull of that massive ship, with 100% armor and hull damage, before getting it to move by more than a minute of angle. The massive ship should get a scratch. Easily fixed by an armor repper.
- A minigame should pop up every 1D10 mining or salvaging cycles, or drone mining/salvaging cycles, per module/drone. Something simple that functions as a CAPTCHA. An "Are you on station" check. Don't do this to combat, or things will get really hairy really fast, and there's already plenty of reason to stay on station when you're up against moving targets.
Possibly put a timer on the latter, so if you don't address the minigame, or shut down the strip miner/mining laser/salvager within some pre-set time frame, (say, 30 seconds), you get overheating damage to the module or hull damage to the drone. Choices for a minigame could be, fixing a jammed component via remote damage bypass, (similar to the hacking mechanic,) extinguishing a fire, fine-tuning a notch filter to catch the correct elements rather than the chaff, etc.
The combination would heavily nerf bumping, while addressing the supposed issue that "justifies" bumping in the first place: AFK play. Personally, my reading of the complaints of Orca changes, by the ganker/bumpers is "It's weaker, sure, but it's not weak enough for me".
Crying... Can't handle.... Too funny... Please send help... Oh god. Capchas in eve. Could it get ANY worse? This is almost as bad as that girls game where you type out each action and it plays a cinematic sequence |
Goati
State War Academy Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2016.10.22 10:49:10 -
[250] - Quote
On the test server I am using a drake to test mining burst range. I have all maxed relevant skills, including fleet command 5 and T2 mining burst. With this, my burst range is 43.88km.
That's without the Orca 50% range bonus. So does this mean that a max skilled gang pilot giving mining bursts in an Orca actually had around 60km burst range? Previously people thought it would only be about 45km, but it seems to be a fair bit higher.
(which is a good thing, because otherwise the porpoise burst range was going to be garbage, but as it stands now the max burst range for porpoise will be around 43km, and orca 65km). |
|
Nam Dnilb
Universal Frog
272
|
Posted - 2016.10.24 20:41:51 -
[251] - Quote
New Orca on the test server currently has 250.000.000Kg of mass, is this intentional? It's an absolute pig aligning. Titans do it better. :-B |
munkape
Haul Street Billionaires
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.25 16:33:33 -
[252] - Quote
Interesting to see lots of people saying how great it will be for solo mining. But it's also going to be the mining support ship everyone has always wanted.
It can give the boost's, hold the ore and also mine for itself. No longer a hanger floating in space.
I can't wait for these changes and will be purchasing one before the update is released. |
Choo Mi
Sneggy Pit
16
|
Posted - 2016.10.26 14:26:27 -
[253] - Quote
The Orca is mainly a hi-sec ship and it is going to be totally unusable in hi for anything except possibly hauling things of no value.
Bumping will negate both fleet support or solo mining.
The Ice mining drones are a little late, Ice products are dropping so fast in price people are just mining Ore.
More nails in the coffin of hi sec miners. |
Ded Akara
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.10.26 16:04:29 -
[254] - Quote
Did I hear CCP say they are going to release ice mining drone rigs as well? So far I can't see them on test server. Can anyone else see them? |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
82
|
Posted - 2016.10.26 16:21:27 -
[255] - Quote
Ded Akara wrote:Did I hear CCP say they are going to release ice mining drone rigs as well? So far I can't see them on test server. Can anyone else see them? The old drone mining rigs have gained a % decrease to ice drone mining times. so the old drone mining rigs now affect both regular drones and ice drones. |
FleetAdmiralHarper
Kitchen Sink Kapitals Caldari alliance 54683212
47
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 08:04:54 -
[256] - Quote
I think the Orcas yield is still to low personally. i think it should get another +600 to max mining per min with drones, and i think it should get more ice mining drone cycle bonuses..
Also i think its time they added Capital Strip miners. the orca should beable to put 4 of them on if it wants to.. or atleast put 4 strip miners on... we need a good Capital mining ship.
lastly plz dont forget to make gas mining drones =) |
aldhura
Perkone Caldari State
103
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 18:43:25 -
[257] - Quote
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:I think the Orcas yield is still to low personally. i think it should get another +600 to max mining per min with drones, and i think it should get more ice mining drone cycle bonuses.. I dont feel like this is enough.
i dont care if its "as good as a barge" as some people claim, it also cost 4x what that T2 barge cost so it should be Better at the job.
Also i think its time they added Capital Strip miners. the orca should beable to put 4 of them on if it wants to.. or atleast put 4 normal strip miners on... We have needed a Capital mining ship for a very long time now. Capital and super capital ships take armies of mining alts weeks of boring AFK mining to make even 1 ship..
As for the PVP players out there looking at this change, i want you to think about this.. if CCP makes these ships REALLY attractive, i mean REALLY REALLY freaking attractive for miners to be in them! (and no currently what is purposed is NOT enough for miners to want to risk them) mining. Than that means you will get more really expensive kills on your boards, and people might even try to defend them in belts which means even more fights and kills..
Edit: Ice mining drones are to dang big. please make them 25 m3/bandwidth. and not 50. thx
Oh lastly CCP, plz don't forget to make gas mining drones =)
my 2 cents. 0/
How did you get it be "as good as a barge" ?? I am not a great miner, but was keen to see how close I could get them, but my mack easily out mines the orca. I am sure I have missed something as I still don't know what to do with all 6 HS :/
|
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
82
|
Posted - 2016.10.27 19:05:09 -
[258] - Quote
aldhura wrote:FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:I think the Orcas yield is still to low personally. i think it should get another +600 to max mining per min with drones, and i think it should get more ice mining drone cycle bonuses.. I dont feel like this is enough.
i dont care if its "as good as a barge" as some people claim, it also cost 4x what that T2 barge cost so it should be Better at the job.
Also i think its time they added Capital Strip miners. the orca should beable to put 4 of them on if it wants to.. or atleast put 4 normal strip miners on... We have needed a Capital mining ship for a very long time now. Capital and super capital ships take armies of mining alts weeks of boring AFK mining to make even 1 ship..
As for the PVP players out there looking at this change, i want you to think about this.. if CCP makes these ships REALLY attractive, i mean REALLY REALLY freaking attractive for miners to be in them! (and no currently what is purposed is NOT enough for miners to want to risk them) mining. Than that means you will get more really expensive kills on your boards, and people might even try to defend them in belts which means even more fights and kills..
Edit: Ice mining drones are to dang big. please make them 25 m3/bandwidth. and not 50. thx
Oh lastly CCP, plz don't forget to make gas mining drones =)
my 2 cents. 0/ How did you get it be "as good as a barge" ?? I am not a great miner, but was keen to see how close I could get them, but my mack easily out mines the orca. I am sure I have missed something as I still don't know what to do with all 6 HS :/ 3 highslots are to be used with any combination of shield/mining bursts, as its main role is that of a fleet booster. And then for its remaining 3 slots you can use a combo of tractor beams/salvagers and even remote shield boosters as it got bonuses for tractor beams to help it reach for droped ore cans the miners drop when mining as well as salvaging of npc/ganker wrecks when they haven been taken care of, as well as the new remote shield logi bonuses the orca gets, also even if you mine solo. using the 3 shield bursts will allow the orca to get enhanced tanking abileties. This is because you dont require fleet mates anymore when using the bursts. While the mining bursts dont affect drones the shield bursts will affect the orca. Giving it enhanced shield amounts and resistances. |
Ali Virgo
The Collective DARKNESS.
100
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 04:29:27 -
[259] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey folks! This will be the specific feedback thread for the Orca revamp coming this November. You can check out the dev blog here for the whole context.Other feedback threads are available for the Porpoise, Rorqual, and the mining foreman gameplay as a whole. ORCAIndustrial Command Ships bonuses (per skill level):5% bonus to ship cargo capacity and ore hold 3% bonus to Mining Foreman Burst Strength and Duration 1% bonus to Shield Command Burst Strength and Duration 10% bonus to drone hitpoints, damage and mining yield -10% reduction in drone ice harvesting cycle time Role bonus:100% bonus to drone mining yield -25% reduction in drone ice harvesting cycle time 100% bonus to drone damage 400% bonus to Remote Shield Booster optimal range 90% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue Can fit three Command Burst modules 50% bonus to Command Burst Area of Effect Range 250% bonus to Tractor Beam range 100% bonus to Tractor Beam velocity 500% bonus to Survey Scanner range Slot layout: 6H (+3), 5M (+1), 2L Fittings: 1200 PWG (+240), 550 CPU (+120) Defense (shields / armor / hull) : 30,000 (+19,250) / 7000 (+100) / 45,000 (-1000) Base shield resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 0 / 20 / 40 / 50 Base armor resistances (EM/Therm/Kin/Exp): 50 / 35 / 35 / 10 Capacitor (amount / recharge / cap per second) : 8000 (+3800) / 1200s (+400) / 6.67 (+1.42) Mobility (max velocity / agility / mass / align time): 60 / 0.26 (+0.1) / 150,000,000 (-100,000,000) / 54.07s (-1.38) Warp Speed: 2 au/s Drones (bandwidth / bay): 50 / 200 (+125) Targeting (max targeting range / Scan Resolution / Max Locked targets): 70km (+10) / 75 / 7 (+5) Sensor strength: 30 Magnetometric (+15) Signature radius: 1000 Cargo Hold: 30,000m3 Ore Hold: 150,000m3 (+100,000) Fleet Hangar: 40,000m3 Ship Maintenance Bay: 400,000m3 Cost: ~700m isk Max Yield: ~1400m3 per minute + drone travel time Max DPS: ~800 dps Let us know what you think!
so orca can mine half as much as a rorquals and 70 percent of its tank. and it can live in high sec and has 80 percent dps of a roq... people will just join npc corp and mine in high sec with these
|
Shonit Fargi
ExoGen Foundation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 07:53:57 -
[260] - Quote
Jin Kugu wrote:Tyberius Franklin wrote: Interesting response considering the complaint is about not being able to interact with an aggressing player before the NPC police arrive.
We could just delay concord and facpo by 20 seconds if that's what you want. That reminds me, when is CCP announcing the corresponding buff to ganking? CCP Fozzie wrote:we like to pair buff and nerfs to suicide ganking to keep things in balance
why do you have to gank why its not fun for us miners when you destroy our ships we make the world go round ya we get rich doing it but if all the miners up and quit the game you would have eanugh ships to last a month or 2 and then you would keep up the wars and then no ships and no one to build them for you you pushed us to far were gone game over is that what you want ccp knows that miers are sick and tired of it and more quit every day because you cant leave them alone if we all quit ou wont have ships to buy no one will prduse them miners need you to fight wars and you need miners to build ships so you can keep fighting so stop ganking us wonce the miners say thats it im tired of this bs we will all quit and go play star citazen and eve will die we love eve but we wont take ganking abuse anymore
|
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Shonit Fargi
ExoGen Foundation
0
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 08:30:35 -
[261] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote:Galinius Valgani wrote:So it will require 50 Catalyst to gank a Orca?
It will require 1 Stabber with an oversized MWD to bump the Orca 50km off the belt within 60 seconds where his Mining Drones are next to useless. That's 15m ISK invest. Next we will see a website coming up... it will be called "miner BUMPING.com" and those bumpers will celebrate that they can bump Orcas out off the belts in highsec 24/7 without criminal flag, without sec loss, without CONCORD showing up and - to talk about balancing - WITHOUT ANYTHING THE ORCA PILOT CAN DO TO PREVENT IT FROM HAPPENING. Oh wait - the website already exists - they have just forgotten where they come from. 500k eHP is next to useless if you are 50km away from the belt and can't warp for as long the bumper don't want him to warp. Brain-in-a-box is a nice thing, unfortunately most people forget to put it back into their heads when crying about ungankable Orcas in highsec. This is EVE - you don't need guns to ruin a miners day. WHAT THE HELL DID WE EVER DO TO YOU TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS REALLY BUT HEY ITS OK want to ruin a miners life thats fine you know why its fine because people like you are pushing miners out of eve and you might smile by that but you wont smile when i tell you why we are leaveing star citizen with ships we like good like eve but we can walk around in our ships and every ship for miners and industry are armed to the teeth ive played bata and they can not be killed with a full crew big guns everywhere gamkers are getting torn apart if you keeep it up we will quit eve and the economy will crash when it does you will find it hard to get anything no ships being made no miners mineing just barren citadels in space everything gone all the miners and creaters of ships and parts all gone becuase people like you would not leave us alone had to pick on ships that could not fight back try that in star citizen you will be blasted out of the stars strike fighters that detach from the ship you will get whats coming to you keeep doing this keep bullying us and you wont have anyone to bully we will go and you wont have an eve with out us to build everything YOU WILL BE THE REASON EVE DIED REMEBR THAT WANT TO DO THAT STUFF DO IT IN LOW SEK OR NULL SEK NOT HIGH SEK THE REASON WE PLAY IN HIGH SEK IS TO STAY AWAY FROM YOU AND PEOPLE LIKE YOU WHY YOU GOT TO COME UP IN HIGH SEK BULLY US IM TIRED OF IT KEEP IT UP AND SOON WE WILL ALL BE GONE AND YOU WILL REGERT IT WHEN YOUR GAME FALLS APART WHEN THEERE ARE NO WORKERS TO DO ALL THE BUILDING!
|
Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
85
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 19:09:31 -
[262] - Quote
so how would you get max mining yield in orca....
harvester mining drone has 40m^3. with orca bonus thats 80. with fully trained mining drone skills thats +25% so 100m^3
if you have 5 of them out thats 500m^3
how do you get 1400 o.0 |
Kueyen
Mei-Ha's Light Fleet Coordination Coalition
166
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 22:21:49 -
[263] - Quote
Lasisha Mishi wrote:so how would you get max mining yield in orca....
harvester mining drone has 40m^3. with orca bonus thats 80. with fully trained mining drone skills thats +25% so 100m^3
if you have 5 of them out thats 500m^3
how do you get 1400 o.0
even with the +50% from industrial thats...what 750? Yield: * (1 + 10% * Drone Interfacing level) * (1 + 5% * Mining Drone Operation level) * (1 + 10% * Industrial Command Ships level) * (1 + 100% Orca role bonus) * (1 + 15% Large Drone Mining Augmentor II) ^ 2 * (1 + 10% Large Drone Mining Augmentor I) * (1 + 2% Mining Drone Specialization level) (T2 and 'Augmented' only)
for a maximum total yield modifier of * 8.19296875 for T1 and Harvester, or * 9.001265625 for T2 and 'Augmented'
Velocity: * (1 + 5% * Drone Navigation level) * (1 + 2% * Mining Drone Specialization level) (T2 and 'Augmented' only)
for a maximum total velocity modifier of * 1.25 for T1 and Harvester, or * 1.375 for T2 and 'Augmented'
Max skill summary:
Mining Drone: * Yield: base 25 m-¦/min each, final 204.57 m-¦/min each, or 1022.87 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base 400 m/s, final 500 m/s
Mining Drone II: * Yield: base 33 m-¦/min each, final 297.04 m-¦/min each, or 1485.21 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: 500 m/s, final 687.5 m/s
'Augmented' Mining Drone * Yield: base 37 m-¦/min each, final 333.05 m-¦/min each, or 1665.23 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base: 550 m/s, final 756.25 m/s
Harvester Mining Drone: * Yield: base 42 m-¦/min each, final 342.68 m-¦/min each, or 1718.42 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base: 350 m/s, final 437.5 m/s
Until all are free...
|
Lasisha Mishi
Caldari Strike Witches
85
|
Posted - 2016.10.29 22:30:18 -
[264] - Quote
Kueyen wrote:Lasisha Mishi wrote:so how would you get max mining yield in orca....
harvester mining drone has 40m^3. with orca bonus thats 80. with fully trained mining drone skills thats +25% so 100m^3
if you have 5 of them out thats 500m^3
how do you get 1400 o.0
even with the +50% from industrial thats...what 750? Yield: * (1 + 10% * Drone Interfacing level) * (1 + 5% * Mining Drone Operation level) * (1 + 10% * Industrial Command Ships level) * (1 + 100% Orca role bonus) * (1 + 15% Large Drone Mining Augmentor II) ^ 2 * (1 + 10% Large Drone Mining Augmentor I) * (1 + 2% Mining Drone Specialization level) (T2 and 'Augmented' only) for a maximum total yield modifier of * 8.19296875 for T1 and Harvester, or * 9.001265625 for T2 and 'Augmented' Velocity: * (1 + 5% * Drone Navigation level) * (1 + 2% * Mining Drone Specialization level) (T2 and 'Augmented' only) for a maximum total velocity modifier of * 1.25 for T1 and Harvester, or * 1.375 for T2 and 'Augmented' Max skill summary: Mining Drone: * Yield: base 25 m-¦/min each, final 204.57 m-¦/min each, or 1022.87 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base 400 m/s, final 500 m/s Mining Drone II: * Yield: base 33 m-¦/min each, final 297.04 m-¦/min each, or 1485.21 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: 500 m/s, final 687.5 m/s 'Augmented' Mining Drone * Yield: base 37 m-¦/min each, final 333.05 m-¦/min each, or 1665.23 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base: 550 m/s, final 756.25 m/s Harvester Mining Drone: * Yield: base 42 m-¦/min each, final 342.68 m-¦/min each, or 1718.42 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base: 350 m/s, final 437.5 m/s thanks =D
|
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
25
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 21:40:38 -
[265] - Quote
Kueyen wrote:
Summary: (with the above presumptions)
Mining Drone: * Yield: base 25 m-¦/min each, final 204.57 m-¦/min each, or 1022.87 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base 400 m/s, final 650 m/s
Mining Drone II: * Yield: base 33 m-¦/min each, final 297.04 m-¦/min each, or 1485.21 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: 500 m/s, final 893.75 m/s
'Augmented' Mining Drone * Yield: base 37 m-¦/min each, final 333.05 m-¦/min each, or 1665.23 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base 550 m/s, final 983.13 m/s
Harvester Mining Drone: * Yield: base 42 m-¦/min each, final 342.68 m-¦/min each, or 1718.42 m-¦/min for 5 * Velocity: base 350 m/s, final 568.75 m/s
On Sisi I fitted four Navigation Computers to a Skiff and pushed the speed of Mining Drone II's over 1700 m/s. It is not really practical to sacrifice the shield tanking slots.
I am not specced for Mining Drone skilling, but the Specialization skills are x5 trains.
If you do not have Drone Rigging 5 yet, it should be on your queue now - if you intend to be using the Mining Drone Augument Rigs. They are CPU penalising. Particularly since MLUs also have CPU trade-off. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3574
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 21:43:15 -
[266] - Quote
Shonit Fargi wrote:
why do you have to gank why its not fun for us miners when you destroy our ships we make the world go round ya we get rich doing it but if all the miners up and quit the game you would have eanugh ships to last a month or 2 and then you would keep up the wars and then no ships and no one to build them for you you pushed us to far were gone game over is that what you want ccp knows that miers are sick and tired of it and more quit every day because you cant leave them alone if we all quit ou wont have ships to buy no one will prduse them miners need you to fight wars and you need miners to build ships so you can keep fighting so stop ganking us wonce the miners say thats it im tired of this bs we will all quit and go play star citazen and eve will die we love eve but we wont take ganking abuse anymore
Not every miner hates ganking or bumping. It removes my competition.
You quit? I make more money.
o/
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
Kueyen
Mei-Ha's Light Fleet Coordination Coalition
167
|
Posted - 2016.10.30 23:54:05 -
[267] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:On Sisi I fitted four Navigation Computers to a Skiff and pushed the speed of Mining Drone II's over 1700 m/s. It is not really practical to sacrifice the shield tanking slots. Yup, I wouldn't fit more than one, and even that one has to compete with a scan resolution scripted Sensor Booster II because Orcas take forever locking asteroids (or anything else smaller than a freighter)
Penance Toralen wrote:I am not specced for Mining Drone skilling, but the Specialization skills are x5 trains. I suppose it helps starting out as Gallente ;-)
Penance Toralen wrote:If you do not have Drone Rigging 5 yet, it should be on your queue now - if you intend to be using the Mining Drone Augument Rigs. They are CPU penalising. Particularly since MLUs also have CPU trade-off. So far I've found Orcas to remain mostly powergrid-limited (if you want that 500MN microwarpdrive without using fitting mods or rigs, and you do if you want to enter warp in 12 seconds from stand-still), and not so much CPU-limited. But it never hurts, I suppose. For Mining Barges/Exhumers, despite the impending improved access to better ('Augmented', Harvester) mining drones, and despite the new specialization skill, I'd still not put Drone Mining Augmentor rigs on them. The total yield increase (viewed over the sum of drones + stripminers) is not worth it compared to using all-MLU-lowslot loadouts that boost stripminers (imho). Especially considering that all those friendly Orcas in the belts only improve your stripminer cycle time, and do nothing for your drones.
Until all are free...
|
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
25
|
Posted - 2016.10.31 01:37:03 -
[268] - Quote
#IRT Kueyen
On Sisi I was testing what I could push out a Skiff, ice mining, unboosted (bursted?!).
2 x ice harv II 3 x ILU II
2 x mining drone augumentor (trading off not using an ice rig - might test again with one)
The pinch on the CPU was very noticeable. I needed to step-down to meta for;
1 x named Medium Shield Extender 2 x limited invuls
1 x nav comp II
At this point only 4.7 CPU remained with solid fitting skills and a Gypsy EE-605. (26 power residual)
1 x ML-3 survey scanner to round out.
Only Level 2 of the new Ice Harvesting drone skill. (which has no impact on fitting). But the 50ms bandwidth put its out of the reach of the Procurer or Retriever.
Filled the 15,000 m-¦ orehold with Ice in roughly 11 minutes. I do not have a benchmark to know if this is good or not.
Fields about 53k (or 57) eHP. |
Sitting Bull Lakota
SBL Co
189
|
Posted - 2016.10.31 11:47:16 -
[269] - Quote
Samsara Toldya wrote: WHAT THE HELL DID WE EVER DO TO YOU TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS
You whined like a helpless victim.
Two things:- CCP is not keen on bumping. Their bumping thread said as much. Bumping shouldn't be considered a vulnerability to include in ship balancing.
- Freighters can have millions of ehp, because they don't create resources. They won't strain the economy. A mining barge with freighter ehp and cargohold would.
The orca looks like it was designed to be lord supreme of afk highsec mining/botting. That's just bad. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1188
|
Posted - 2016.10.31 12:44:13 -
[270] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Samsara Toldya wrote: WHAT THE HELL DID WE EVER DO TO YOU TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS
You whined like a helpless victim. Two things: - CCP is not keen on bumping. Their bumping thread said as much. Bumping shouldn't be considered a vulnerability to include in ship balancing.
- Freighters can have millions of ehp, because they don't create resources. They won't strain the economy. A mining barge with freighter ehp and cargohold would.
The orca looks like it was designed to be lord supreme of afk highsec mining/botting. That's just bad. You don't know much about freighters OR mining do you..
Do some research mate, then post how freighters have "millions of EHP" Then look at highsec mining and let us all know where you can AFK mine, aside from the odd ice belt that doesn't get mined out in 45 minutes from spawn (trust me they are very rare and harder to find).
Ore mining, you'll be lucky to get more than 2 or 3 cycles before having to switch rocks (so at best, 4 mins afk)
Ice mining; a bit different, if you get to the belt before anyone else, you might half fill your Orca before the belt is depleted. But still, if these new ice mining drones are everything CCP says, you'll need to have 2 rocks at a time locked ready to switch, so *maybe* you'll get 8 to 10 minutes to watch netflix undisturbed by Eve..
Seems funny to me how no miners are coming in here talking about how good afk mining is - Could that be because AFK mining in highsec is not much more than a myth? When the most common sound you hear (every couple of minutes) while mining is - The Asteroid is Depleted - Your not afk mining..
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
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Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3578
|
Posted - 2016.10.31 13:40:46 -
[271] - Quote
Sgt ocker, how does the orca get only a couple of cycles before its full?
Your naive if you think afk mining is a myth. The most used barges are still retties and macks and rocks don't deplete after a few minutes. Plag rocks with 40-50k units and veld with over 100k units are not uncommon. I don't think ice belts deplete as fast as you think either. Teonusude is a ice mining hot spot but during the week each belt (there are two) can last a couple hours.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
aldhura
Perkone Caldari State
103
|
Posted - 2016.10.31 17:49:49 -
[272] - Quote
Sitting Bull Lakota wrote:Samsara Toldya wrote: WHAT THE HELL DID WE EVER DO TO YOU TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS
You whined like a helpless victim. Two things: - CCP is not keen on bumping. Their bumping thread said as much.
The orca looks like it was designed to be lord supreme of afk highsec mining/botting. That's just bad.
If they wanted to they could stop it. Its nice though that you can now have a free account to bump with, what a coincidence
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3690
|
Posted - 2016.10.31 21:29:09 -
[273] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:Sgt ocker, how does the orca get only a couple of cycles before its full? Literacy, it's that thing you don't have. Now go back and read what he said again.
As for 100k Veld rocks, LMAO...... Yeah, never ever seen one of those in high sec, and I mine in out of the way systems. Maybe in Null you get such amazing things.
Retrievers may still be the most common miner, that's because it saves on down time warping back to station, so you get a higher efficiency, because a lot of high sec miners are not mining in some large operation with 20 pilots in fleet, but solo while chilling and chatting to friends. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
3578
|
Posted - 2016.11.01 14:42:49 -
[274] - Quote
Ah i see. My bad.
Yes indeed, take a trip to teon during the week. I'll show you some dense veld rocks with over 100k units in. I'll also bump some miners for you and show you how they sit still for 20minutes.
EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"
Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
|
Iowa Banshee
Fenrir Vangard
125
|
Posted - 2016.11.02 15:13:58 -
[275] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote:Zan Shiro wrote:
2. If the bumpers carry out their threats of bump I predict it will speed up ccp making the idea of 3 minute rule reality. It won't help on belt mining. It will however offset players petitioning when they just want to gtfo and an hour plus later they are still stuck
Petition start
Hey ccp.. I was bumped starting at 2200. Tried to break free of if for an hour and half, Gave up went to bed and said what happens happens. And you know what...I woke up 0600 checked eve for giggles and grins and they were still bumping me. When fishing in wow is more productive to do man you all are really on the right track to a great game.
Fix this please.
Petition End
I have no issues with limited bumping. Seen it deny a few caps whose cyno just a bit too far from slipping into shield/dock range. Thing is...you or your fleet mate bumped the carrier to deny the easy out, dictor and dps hauling ass to lock and drop. Bump with the intent to have backup show up in a timely manner and kill the ship properly...by all means.
Bump because this thrills them for hours and not even going to shoot the damn thing...that is just tarded really. I know some call it emergent game play. Burn Jita, hulkageddon, goon ice interdictions years back....thats emergent game play. Bumping for hours with no plans to commit to a kill....is not emergent. Its a silent cry for help of some kind. Or they need to get laid really really bad.
The way bumping Orcas will work is much like the old miner bumping before the rise of CODE. After checking to see if the Orca pilot and his flock of minions have mining permits I will bump any non-compliant Orca away from the ice field. Once he's some 100-200 km away I will return to the ice field. If he attempts to slowboat back I will wait until he's getting close enough to start boosting again and I will bump him back to 100-200km. If he chooses to warp away and warp back into the fleet I will await his return and then immediately bump him back to the aforementioned 100-200km. At all times I will remind him of his obligation to follow the Code and purchase a mining permit. Results on this are mixed as some miners suppose they have "honor!" and "principles!" and would rather suffer the complete shutdown of their boosting or mining than pay the low, never changed, 10 million ISK. These I will keep bumping as long as I choose. The introduction of the three minute "get out jail free" card won't affect my tactics. In 2012/2013 before ganking became the main weapon of the New Order I often would bump a particular miner for as long as it took for either him to buy the permit, or give up and dock. I'm a little rusty now as I've spent the intervening years ganking miners but I look forward to dusting off the old Invincible Stabber FI and returning to bumping. Of course, my Stabber does fit a scanning module and I have the CODE. freighter ganking fleet on the batphone so they might come a callin'. All this aside, bumping Orcas will be a reasonable response to a change in highsec mining abilities. You may consider it a reflection of some real life issue we bumpers have but it makes sense in terms of our stated goals for highsec. I like a kill mail as much as the next guy but I'm also fine with forcing another player to comply with my will in whatever method I have available. Bumping Orcas WILL be a thing. Petitions away! Its so elegant: Code ganks miners - Miners get Orcas - Code bump orcas - Miners get Alphas Miners Gank code, The circle is complete |
Bing Bangboom
DAMAG Safety Commission
562
|
Posted - 2016.11.04 21:43:49 -
[276] - Quote
Iowa Banshee wrote: Its so elegant: Code ganks miners - Miners get Orcas - Code bump orcas - Miners get Alphas Miners Gank code, The circle is complete
Kind of off-topic but there are problems with your theory.
1) Miners won't try to gank bumpers because they can't be bothered. 2) Miners can't successfully gank bumpers because CODE. always wins.
And
3) It will give us a kill right on them so their mining days are over for at least a month.
Highsec is worth fighting for.
By choosing to mine in New Order systems, highsec miners have agreed to follow the New Halaima Code of Conduct.-á www.minerbumping.com
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RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
84
|
Posted - 2016.11.05 02:14:43 -
[277] - Quote
Bing Bangboom wrote:Iowa Banshee wrote: Its so elegant: Code ganks miners - Miners get Orcas - Code bump orcas - Miners get Alphas Miners Gank code, The circle is complete
Kind of off-topic but there are problems with your theory. 1) Miners won't try to gank bumpers because they can't be bothered. 2) Miners can't successfully gank bumpers because CODE. always wins. And 3) It will give us a kill right on them so their mining days are over for at least a month.
3 isent exactly a valid point cause they would use a alpha account to do the ganking. not their main account lol |
Cade Windstalker
605
|
Posted - 2016.11.07 16:56:35 -
[278] - Quote
FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:I think the Orcas yield is still to low personally. i think it should get another +600 to max mining per min with drones, and i think it should get more ice mining drone cycle bonuses.. I dont feel like this is enough.
i dont care if its "as good as a barge" as some people claim, it also cost 4x what that T2 barge cost so it should be Better at the job.
Also i think its time they added Capital Strip miners. the orca should beable to put 4 of them on if it wants to.. or atleast put 4 normal strip miners on... We have needed a Capital mining ship for a very long time now. Capital and super capital ships take armies of mining alts weeks of boring AFK mining to make even 1 ship..
As for the PVP players out there looking at this change, i want you to think about this.. if CCP makes these ships REALLY attractive, i mean REALLY REALLY freaking attractive for miners to be in them! (and no currently what is purposed is NOT enough for miners to want to risk them) mining. Than that means you will get more really expensive kills on your boards, and people might even try to defend them in belts which means even more fights and kills..
Edit: Ice mining drones are to dang big. please make them 25 m3/bandwidth. and not 50. thx
Oh lastly CCP, plz don't forget to make gas mining drones =)
my 2 cents. 0/
It's a support ship, you're not supposed to field a fleet of Orcas instead of Mining Barges or Exhumers, you're supposed to field an Orca and a fleet of Exhumers or make your trade-off in survivability for the lower yield of the Orca.
Your suggestions here are just a blatant request to benefit High-Sec miners because it's basically never going to be profitable to gank an Orca, the best you can do is bump them, something CCP is already looking at plans for dealing with as a system because it's riskless gameplay for the attacker and frustrating for the victim. |
Miss Stardust
University of Caille Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.07 19:45:30 -
[279] - Quote
Quote:Unlike Combat Drones, Mining Drones don't have Microwarpdrives. They won't benefit from Drone Navigation Computers.
Sorry, this used to be true, but no longer. Drone Navigation Computers do MOST assuredly work on Mining Drones, and could be really a nice mid-slot add for Orca drivers. I ran them them on my Skiff as a matter of course and they work well.
I see above some have already tested it. Its been true for years and I can't believe it took 13 pages to even discuss.
/dust |
Frances Voltaire
Eldorado Exhumers
2
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 03:45:11 -
[280] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:I think the Orcas yield is still to low personally. i think it should get another +600 to max mining per min with drones, and i think it should get more ice mining drone cycle bonuses.. I dont feel like this is enough.
i dont care if its "as good as a barge" as some people claim, it also cost 4x what that T2 barge cost so it should be Better at the job.
Also i think its time they added Capital Strip miners. the orca should beable to put 4 of them on if it wants to.. or atleast put 4 normal strip miners on... We have needed a Capital mining ship for a very long time now. Capital and super capital ships take armies of mining alts weeks of boring AFK mining to make even 1 ship..
As for the PVP players out there looking at this change, i want you to think about this.. if CCP makes these ships REALLY attractive, i mean REALLY REALLY freaking attractive for miners to be in them! (and no currently what is purposed is NOT enough for miners to want to risk them) mining. Than that means you will get more really expensive kills on your boards, and people might even try to defend them in belts which means even more fights and kills..
Edit: Ice mining drones are to dang big. please make them 25 m3/bandwidth. and not 50. thx
Oh lastly CCP, plz don't forget to make gas mining drones =)
my 2 cents. 0/ It's a support ship, you're not supposed to field a fleet of Orcas instead of Mining Barges or Exhumers, you're supposed to field an Orca and a fleet of Exhumers or make your trade-off in survivability for the lower yield of the Orca. Your suggestions here are just a blatant request to benefit High-Sec miners because it's basically never going to be profitable to gank an Orca, the best you can do is bump them, something CCP is already looking at plans for dealing with as a system because it's riskless gameplay for the attacker and frustrating for the victim.
Well Said Cade! Industrial Command ships with mining drone bonuses is the BIG WIN. It can mine! Even if only 1/2 effective as an Exhumer. If you have an Orca and four Skiffs, you now have a 12.5% buff to your fleet resource gathering. The 187,500m3 maxed out Orca Ore hold has you staying on grid a whole lot longer which ups your fleets overall mining effectiveness. We all just got a GIANT bonus to mining in Orca boosted fleets without one single nerf or increase to risk. Lets quietly take this and be happy with it!
|
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Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1202
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 11:37:17 -
[281] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:I think the Orcas yield is still to low personally. i think it should get another +600 to max mining per min with drones, and i think it should get more ice mining drone cycle bonuses.. I dont feel like this is enough.
i dont care if its "as good as a barge" as some people claim, it also cost 4x what that T2 barge cost so it should be Better at the job.
Also i think its time they added Capital Strip miners. the orca should beable to put 4 of them on if it wants to.. or atleast put 4 normal strip miners on... We have needed a Capital mining ship for a very long time now. Capital and super capital ships take armies of mining alts weeks of boring AFK mining to make even 1 ship..
As for the PVP players out there looking at this change, i want you to think about this.. if CCP makes these ships REALLY attractive, i mean REALLY REALLY freaking attractive for miners to be in them! (and no currently what is purposed is NOT enough for miners to want to risk them) mining. Than that means you will get more really expensive kills on your boards, and people might even try to defend them in belts which means even more fights and kills..
Edit: Ice mining drones are to dang big. please make them 25 m3/bandwidth. and not 50. thx
Oh lastly CCP, plz don't forget to make gas mining drones =)
my 2 cents. 0/ It's a support ship, you're not supposed to field a fleet of Orcas instead of Mining Barges or Exhumers, you're supposed to field an Orca and a fleet of Exhumers or make your trade-off in survivability for the lower yield of the Orca. Your suggestions here are just a blatant request to benefit High-Sec miners because it's basically never going to be profitable to gank an Orca, the best you can do is bump them, something CCP is already looking at plans for dealing with as a system because it's riskless gameplay for the attacker and frustrating for the victim. "Never going to be profitable" Since when has ganking been all about profit?
If ganking for profit was the sole motivation, nearly half of the ganks across New Eden would never happen.
NB; I agree the Orca changes aren't and never should be intended to remove the need for miners in fleet.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Careby
308
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 13:13:26 -
[282] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:...you're not supposed to field a fleet of Orcas instead of Mining Barges or Exhumers...
Since when do EVE players do what they are "supposed" to?
|
Lugh Crow-Slave
3295
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 13:17:43 -
[283] - Quote
Careby wrote:Cade Windstalker wrote:...you're not supposed to field a fleet of Orcas instead of Mining Barges or Exhumers... Since when do EVE players do what they are "supposed" to?
when there is no benefit to not a barge fleet with orca support is just better than a fleet of orcas yield wise since orca boosts don't affect drones
BLOPS Hauler
|
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
50
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 13:19:58 -
[284] - Quote
These changes sound really good. One of the big problems you had as a miner was that someone needs to do the boost job and that someone will have their ore/min heavily reduced by sitting in the Orca. With this change people will love to be the booster as that means they can still go crazy on yield while having the biggest ore storage capacity.
It is tough to say how the Orca will compare to the smaller Porpoise, with lower gain and capacity but for a fraction of the price. My guess is that larger corps will stick with the Orca and smaller ones with the Porpoise.
The fitting upgrades look great, especially the high slots, which have been one of the major issues when fitting and Orca up to now. About the mid slots it would be great to know the passive shield recharge rate to see if those have - again - to be wasted on extenders, or if you can actually focus on mining stuff. I would have expected a slightly higher shield resistance here, as after all this is now the "T2" industrial command ship.
The align time is still a pain, but then this ship just has to have some downsides, so I guess it is ok. I wish there would be like a travel mode that you can switch on/off on stations only, to allow you to move your Orca from one system to another in less than what feels like an eternity. |
Careby
308
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 13:23:49 -
[285] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Careby wrote:Since when do EVE players do what they are "supposed" to?
when there is no benefit to not a barge fleet with orca support is just better than a fleet of orcas yield wise since orca boosts don't affect drones
Yes but a lot of miners choose ore hold over efficiency, for obvious reasons.
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Careby
308
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 13:28:33 -
[286] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:...The align time is still a pain, but then this ship just has to have some downsides, so I guess it is ok. I wish there would be like a travel mode that you can switch on/off on stations only, to allow you to move your Orca from one system to another in less than what feels like an eternity.
A 500MN MWD reduces what feels like an eternity to what feels like only an eon.
|
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
50
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 13:42:38 -
[287] - Quote
Careby wrote:A 500MN MWD reduces what feels like an eternity to what feels like only an eon.
Orca makes you check if you have some leave days left to get your stuff from Amar to Rens. |
Captain Tardbar
Sunken Ships
1173
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 15:11:24 -
[288] - Quote
Jalxan wrote:I don't see why people are so concerned about bumping. If I ever need to worry about bumping, a 500mn MWD, and an Anchor rig, will easily boost that ship to 400,000,000kg. And that would put the relative end to that. It won't make it impossible, but it will surely make it far more difficult.
EDIT - I actually would like to see the ability to stack Anchor rigs, instead of being limited to just one. Or, alternatively, make a tech 2 rig which adds 150% or more instead.
I would like to know more.
Why does the MWD increase mass?
Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?
Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
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Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
50
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 15:13:45 -
[289] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:Why does the MWD increase mass? Because it says so in the description. |
Captain Tardbar
Sunken Ships
1173
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 15:22:04 -
[290] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:Why does the MWD increase mass? Because it says so in the description.
Oh wow. 9 years of playing and learn new stuff all the time.
So if I put on a Higgs rig and 500 mwd then bumping is more difficult?
Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?
Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
|
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Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
50
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 16:12:46 -
[291] - Quote
Captain Tardbar wrote:So if I put on a Higgs rig and 500 mwd then bumping is more difficult? Yes and no. You can no longer push the Orca away from gates and WHs unless you bring heavy ships on your own, but you can still keep it from warping. |
Captain Tardbar
Sunken Ships
1173
|
Posted - 2016.11.10 17:51:05 -
[292] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:So if I put on a Higgs rig and 500 mwd then bumping is more difficult? Yes and no. You can no longer push the Orca away from gates and WHs unless you bring heavy ships on your own, but you can still keep it from warping.
So I guess that is why CCP is considering the 3 minute rule.
So with the rig and MWD, you couldn't be pushed away from the belt, but you couldn't warp out if needed?
What if I get some one to web me?
Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?
Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
|
Malcorath Sacerdos
Rogue Meddlers
38
|
Posted - 2016.11.11 19:55:10 -
[293] - Quote
aldhura wrote:FleetAdmiralHarper wrote:I think the Orcas yield is still to low personally. i think it should get another +600 to max mining per min with drones, and i think it should get more ice mining drone cycle bonuses.. I dont feel like this is enough.
i dont care if its "as good as a barge" as some people claim, it also cost 4x what that T2 barge cost so it should be Better at the job.
Also i think its time they added Capital Strip miners. the orca should beable to put 4 of them on if it wants to.. or atleast put 4 normal strip miners on... We have needed a Capital mining ship for a very long time now. Capital and super capital ships take armies of mining alts weeks of boring AFK mining to make even 1 ship..
As for the PVP players out there looking at this change, i want you to think about this.. if CCP makes these ships REALLY attractive, i mean REALLY REALLY freaking attractive for miners to be in them! (and no currently what is purposed is NOT enough for miners to want to risk them) mining. Than that means you will get more really expensive kills on your boards, and people might even try to defend them in belts which means even more fights and kills..
Edit: Ice mining drones are to dang big. please make them 25 m3/bandwidth. and not 50. thx
Oh lastly CCP, plz don't forget to make gas mining drones =)
my 2 cents. 0/ How did you get it be "as good as a barge" ?? I am not a great miner, but was keen to see how close I could get them, but my mack easily out mines the orca. I am sure I have missed something as I still don't know what to do with all 6 HS :/
3 x boost 1xshield transfer 1xcap transfer 1x tractor beam ? pair them one shield booster and one mining booster trading cap and using shield transfers to keep miner safe. keep two roids locked and the other orca so you can easally rep the orca and keep those mining drones active the last two targets u use to lock up mingships in need of assistance. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 00:32:14 -
[294] - Quote
100% to drone mining yield,
Why not -50% cycle time for ice mining?
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 01:53:10 -
[295] - Quote
Careby wrote:Raw Matters wrote:...The align time is still a pain, but then this ship just has to have some downsides, so I guess it is ok. I wish there would be like a travel mode that you can switch on/off on stations only, to allow you to move your Orca from one system to another in less than what feels like an eternity. A 500MN MWD reduces what feels like an eternity to what feels like only an eon. Since when do 10 sec. count as an eon?
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 02:25:21 -
[296] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Captain Tardbar wrote:So if I put on a Higgs rig and 500 mwd then bumping is more difficult? Yes and no. You can no longer push the Orca away from gates and WHs unless you bring heavy ships on your own, but you can still keep it from warping. Sadly not true.
A well fitted Mach with an 500MWD can bump your 400kt orca still up tp at least 1000m/s. And the 75%speed reduction of the higgs anchor makes it a pain to move back to the field or from one point to another in it.
Spare the higgs and use the 500MWD to bring your orca up to over 400m/s max speed. Watch the Mach and start aligning to it, when it's coming.
And then watch, who is bumping who.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Careby
308
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 09:11:15 -
[297] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:Careby wrote:A 500MN MWD reduces what feels like an eternity to what feels like only an eon.
Since when do 10 sec. count as an eon? Since 37 sec. count as an eternity.
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Ded Akara
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
5
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 12:43:35 -
[298] - Quote
Does anyone know if ice harvester drones got nerfed somehow? My orca on test used to get around 35 sec cycle time with a T2 ice drone but now it gets 50 seconds. That's with all skills maxed and T2 drone mining rigs. |
Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 20:55:46 -
[299] - Quote
There are quite few statments from people about how much is mined by what, but those peps forget about that those exhumers at present are getting boosts, ~2600m3 per min with mackinaw now, so switch from mining ship for orca will be downgrade for that miner. |
RainReaper
RRN Assembly INC
86
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 22:25:00 -
[300] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:There are quite few statments from people about how much is mined by what, but those peps forget about that those exhumers at present are getting boosts, ~2600m3 per min with mackinaw now, so switch from mining ship for orca will be downgrade for that miner. ...and to get those boosts you need an orca. sure any orca after the first one would be kind of a waste. but there is always gonna be room for 1 orca. after that you should bring mining barges/exhumers. |
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 22:33:55 -
[301] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:There are quite few statments from people about how much is mined by what, but those peps forget about that those exhumers at present are getting boosts, ~2600m3 per min with mackinaw now, so switch from mining ship for orca will be downgrade for that miner. But the orca will be the ultimate aft miner with a decent yeild.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Starrakatt
Celtic Anarchy Complaints Department
612
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 22:37:30 -
[302] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:Raven Ship wrote:There are quite few statments from people about how much is mined by what, but those peps forget about that those exhumers at present are getting boosts, ~2600m3 per min with mackinaw now, so switch from mining ship for orca will be downgrade for that miner. But the orca will be the ultimate afk miner with a decent yield. And then i guess, code will adapt and start killing orcaminers. Until they get ganked.
Sneaky bastard.
Complaints Department is recruiting!
We got wardecced, ohnoes!
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Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 22:46:41 -
[303] - Quote
Ded Akara wrote:Does anyone know if ice harvester drones got nerfed somehow? My orca on test used to get around 35 sec cycle time with a T2 ice drone but now it gets 50 seconds. That's with all skills maxed and T2 drone mining rigs. Same as my Sisi orca.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
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Careby
310
|
Posted - 2016.11.12 23:42:40 -
[304] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:But the orca will be the ultimate afk miner with a decent yield. And then i guess, code will adapt and start killing orcaminers.
As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. Now whether or not it will be anywhere near the asteroids you were mining when you went afk is another matter.
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Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
51
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 01:26:12 -
[305] - Quote
Careby wrote:As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. This.
I am not sure how you want to gank an Orca if the pilot has at least the basic skills for tanking. The live Orca has already ~200k EHP and with the patch it gets another boost. How is you plan to kill that in high-sec? Throw Maelstroms at it until there are so many Concord ships that the server crashes? You can't get it with suspect either, as mining drones do not react to loot stealing and besides: there is no loot to steal with a cargo hold that huge.
Now you can probably bump it away, but keep in mind that the drones have up to 60k range, plus another 24k for potential drone links. I'd say that someone who spends that much time bumping an Orca out of a belt really has serious problems. :D |
Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 11:06:56 -
[306] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Careby wrote:As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. This. I am not sure how you want to gank an Orca if the pilot has at least the basic skills for tanking. The live Orca has already ~200k EHP and with the patch it gets another boost. How is you plan to kill that in high-sec? Throw Maelstroms at it until there are so many Concord ships that the server crashes? You can't get it with suspect either, as mining drones do not react to loot stealing and besides: there is no loot to steal with a cargo hold that huge. Now you can probably bump it away, but keep in mind that the drones have up to 60k range, plus another 24k for potential drone links. I'd say that someone who spends that much time bumping an Orca out of a belt really has serious problems. :D
Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? cost few mil. Then concord reaction in 0.5 is 30sec? that gives 18k dps per catalyst, 12 should take current orca down. Now add to that exploit part, that suiciders who have already -10ss, they move arround in pods, and there own alt orca launch catalyst for them in space, so that they can board them and have full time before concord reaction to shoot at your orca. Now add to that fact, that goons are who will gain most from current rorqual changes, somewhere else someone counted how much ratting cariers they lost by last half year, 11, so it will be in there interest to cut down hsec supply, as they will oversupply market in no time with those numbers.
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Careby
311
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 11:58:50 -
[307] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? cost few mil. Then concord reaction in 0.5 is 30sec? that gives 18k dps per catalyst, 12 should take current orca down. Now add to that exploit part, that suiciders who have already -10ss, they move arround in pods, and there own alt orca launch catalyst for them in space, so that they can board them and have full time before concord reaction to shoot at your orca...
It's not impossible to gank a properly fit Orca now, and it won't be impossible to do after the expansion. But the resources and coordination it takes mean it doesn't happen very often. Most highsec Orca losses can be explained. Aside from flying under war dec or kill right, one recurring theme is improper fit. It is possible to "anti tank" an Orca by fitting cargohold modules and rigs, and you can be sure gankers will scan your fittings and do their math before committing themselves. There are usually enough miners with weakly tanked ships to keep them busy.
|
Je'ron
The Happy Shooters
4
|
Posted - 2016.11.13 13:22:55 -
[308] - Quote
ROFL at those "OMG They are getting a 600k EHP, 800 DPS, 250k m3, 1600 m3/min, anchorable/unbumpable, mine fleet protecting, boosting Orca" whines.
You will need to fit a lot of modules and rigs on your Orca to get that: DC2, Reinforced Bulkheads, Transverse Bulkhead, Shield extenders, Shield Hardeners, Defense Field Extenders, DDAs, Drone Nav computers, Sebos, Expanded Cargohold, Cargohold Optimizers, Mining Augmentors, MWD, Higgs Anchor, Remote Reps + Augmentors, Remote Shield boosters, Mining Foreman Bursts, Shield Command Bursts.
Remind me again, how much PG & CPU and how many high, med, low and rig slots does the Orca have? |
Raw Matters
Brilliant Starfire
51
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 00:35:07 -
[309] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? I like math, so let's do some math.
Concord reaction time in 0.5 according to Wiki: ~19s Catalyst fitting: 603 DPS @9,769,467 ISK Orca EHP with reasonable mining fitting: ~250,000 post patch
That's 11,457 damage per Cataclyst, so you need 22 of them to kill the Orca. That means for a total cost of 214,928,274 ISK you can high-sec gank an Orca in 0.5 space.
I don't see this becoming a common thing. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 01:05:30 -
[310] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Raven Ship wrote:Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? I like math, so let's do some math. Concord reaction time in 0.5 according to Wiki: ~19s Catalyst fitting: 603 DPS @9,769,467 ISK Orca EHP with reasonable mining fitting: ~250,000 post patch That's 11,457 damage per Cataclyst, so you need 22 of them to kill the Orca. That means for a total cost of 214,928,274 ISK you can high-sec gank an Orca in 0.5 space. I don't see this becoming a common thing. But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
|
Raven Ship
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 10:21:01 -
[311] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote: I don't see this becoming a common thing.
May be as Orca's in majority do not stay at belt for now. So if you do not look at suicides activity you will definitely not notice it.
Raw Matters wrote: That means for a total cost of 214,928,274 ISK you can high-sec gank an Orca in 0.5 space.
And as you do not see this happening, you do not see also that suicides collect wrecks right after kill, with npc alts, with addiction to insurance if any ever bother, cost for them is much lower. Also from killmails I did seen, it were around 3-5mil per catalyst. |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18406
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 11:49:09 -
[312] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 14:53:10 -
[313] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
Cade Windstalker
606
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 15:26:32 -
[314] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there.
Gotta say Baltec1 you're one of the highlights of the forums. Always nice to see someone fairly reasonable around ready to jump in with actual evidence.
Sorry for any damage this does to your shitposting cred
And yeah, for comparison there are more than 10 pods suicide ganked in Amarr every day. 10 skiffs in a month is a mild annoyance in the grand scheme of things.
Mark O'Helm wrote:there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill.
Then you have no proof of their impact or activities and that makes discussing them pretty much pointless.
I may as well say that there's a super top secret goon Bomber fleet running around killing Titans, but their kills don't show up on zKill so there's no proof... |
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18407
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 17:26:18 -
[315] - Quote
Mark O'Helm wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill.
What do NPC fleets have to do with anything? |
Rowells
ANZAC ALLIANCE Mercenary Coalition
3135
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 17:34:11 -
[316] - Quote
"I know this thread is about the Orca, and imma let you finish-
But ganking is the worst thing of all time" - EVE-O Forums 20XX |
Cade Windstalker
606
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 17:37:35 -
[317] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: What do NPC fleets have to do with anything?
NPC is a Corp (or Alliance, I honestly can't remember). That's their ticker. He's not talking about literal Rats pewing miners. |
Mark O'Helm
Fam. Zimin von Reizgenschwendt
249
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 19:07:15 -
[318] - Quote
I meant players in an npc corp, working together as a fleet of at least 10 catalysts, an unknown count of scouts and at least 2 bumpers.
"Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen.
Aber Frauen wollen keine Frauenversteher.
Weil Frauenversteher wissen, was Frauen wollen." (Ein Single)
"Wirklich coolen Leuten ist es egal, ob sie cool sind." (Einer, dem es egal ist)
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18407
|
Posted - 2016.11.14 19:16:01 -
[319] - Quote
You do realise that km get posted anyway these days. I haven't manually posted a mail for several years now even on my NPC alts. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
254
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 00:19:48 -
[320] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:You do realise that km get posted anyway these days. I haven't manually posted a mail for several years now even on my NPC alts. They don't. Only if you post them manually or if the victim or the char with the final blow has an api key at zkb (or their corps). CCP publicly thought about the idea of making all kills available for a while but dismissed the idea eventually.
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
|
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Anne Sol
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 11:01:06 -
[321] - Quote
Raw Matters wrote:Raven Ship wrote:Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? I like math, so let's do some math. Concord reaction time in 0.5 according to Wiki: ~19s Catalyst fitting: 603 DPS @9,769,467 ISK Orca EHP with reasonable mining fitting: ~250,000 post patch That's 11,457 damage per Cataclyst, so you need 22 of them to kill the Orca. That means for a total cost of 214,928,274 ISK you can high-sec gank an Orca in 0.5 space. I don't see this becoming a common thing. so 250mil for killing 700mil worth ship? I call it fair game then.
|
Captain Tardbar
Hentogaira Miners Alliance
1180
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 14:09:16 -
[322] - Quote
Raven Ship wrote:Raw Matters wrote:Careby wrote:As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. This. I am not sure how you want to gank an Orca if the pilot has at least the basic skills for tanking. The live Orca has already ~200k EHP and with the patch it gets another boost. How is you plan to kill that in high-sec? Throw Maelstroms at it until there are so many Concord ships that the server crashes? You can't get it with suspect either, as mining drones do not react to loot stealing and besides: there is no loot to steal with a cargo hold that huge. Now you can probably bump it away, but keep in mind that the drones have up to 60k range, plus another 24k for potential drone links. I'd say that someone who spends that much time bumping an Orca out of a belt really has serious problems. :D Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? cost few mil. Then concord reaction in 0.5 is 30sec? that gives 18k dps per catalyst, 12 should take current orca down. Now add to that exploit part, that suiciders who have already -10ss, they move arround in pods, and there own alt orca launch catalyst for them in space, so that they can board them and have full time before concord reaction to shoot at your orca. Now add to that fact, that goons are who will gain most from current rorqual changes, somewhere else someone counted how much ratting cariers they lost by last half year, 11, so it will be in there interest to cut down hsec supply, as they will oversupply market in no time with those numbers.
If the Orca has 400k EHP which isn't hard to do. It takes about 23 cats.
I mean if you are a large Corp that isn't a problem, but if you got that many people you might want to do something more lucrative like gank freighters.
Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?
Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18413
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 19:06:10 -
[323] - Quote
Anne Sol wrote: so 250mil for killing 700mil worth ship? I call it fair game then.
Now calculate the profit to be made on such a gank. |
Captain Tardbar
Hentogaira Miners Alliance
1181
|
Posted - 2016.11.15 21:44:02 -
[324] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anne Sol wrote: so 250mil for killing 700mil worth ship? I call it fair game then.
Now calculate the profit to be made on such a gank.
Maybe if the Orca was using ORE drones.
Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?
Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
|
Bitter Fremlin
Heimatar Enhanced Fleet Industries
5
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 13:11:03 -
[325] - Quote
Note: For all those running Orca:Exhumer yield comparisons...
It would appear that max-boosted Exhumer laser yields are down some 20% since Ascension, e.g. a Hulk is down from 1920m3/cycle/laser to1650m3-ish. Whether that is a non-applied bonus bug or simply down to the Mining Foreman skill now giving boost duration buffs rather than the old-style yield buffs I'll leave for people smarter than me to determine. |
Madame Black
Primus Inc. LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 13:45:21 -
[326] - Quote
laser cycle time has gone from max with boost of 69sec to 61sec with new expansion from what I can tell. Not sure if this make up for the yield lost but it might. doesnt matter they made being a boost for a mining fleet stupid now with boost cycle module being 60 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting over 2 mins with skills. You either micro manage or use twice as much ammo to do the same thing. I personally am done boosting and will only drone mine untill this is fix. There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost. Yet another reason for me to leave eve after being away again. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1225
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 15:29:09 -
[327] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill. What do NPC fleets have to do with anything? This particular gang announce in local they are part of the "new order of new eden" (self validation is important to gankers lol) Basically just a bunch of low rank/rent alts in npc corps. More of a part time nuisance than anything.
I've been waiting for their Falcon bumper to go flashy by grabbing the wrong can again - One less Falcon trolling the ice belts for lone retrievers is acceptable.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18416
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 17:23:03 -
[328] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote:baltec1 wrote:Mark O'Helm wrote: But there are fleets of 10 cats ganking skiffs in hs. So, who knows.
5 so far this month. Not exactly a large number given the amount of skiffs out there. there is an 12 man NPC fleet in Everyshore. Their kills often does'nt show up on zkill. What do NPC fleets have to do with anything? This particular gang announce in local they are part of the "new order of new eden" (self validation is important to gankers lol) Basically just a bunch of low rank/rent alts in npc corps. More of a part time nuisance than anything. I've been waiting for their Falcon bumper to go flashy by grabbing the wrong can again - One less Falcon trolling the ice belts for lone retrievers is acceptable.
Thats code. |
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2005
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 19:46:05 -
[329] - Quote
Madame Black wrote:laser cycle time has gone from max with boost of 69sec to 61sec with new expansion from what I can tell. Not sure if this make up for the yield lost but it might. doesnt matter they made being a boost for a mining fleet stupid now with boost cycle module being 60 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting over 2 mins with skills. You either micro manage or use twice as much ammo to do the same thing. I personally am done boosting and will only drone mine untill this is fix. There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost. Yet another reason for me to leave eve after being away again. Why would you chose to not use bursts when the gains are far greater than the isk lost through fuel whether micromanaging them or not? |
Xa Charante
The Antiestablishmentarianists
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:03:56 -
[330] - Quote
I think it's a bad idea not to allow Orca to self boost it's own drone yield. There is almost no incentive to boost others except to be helpful. |
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Xa Charante
The Antiestablishmentarianists
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:06:00 -
[331] - Quote
plz delete. |
Spankerz
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:11:38 -
[332] - Quote
Nice Job on the Orca CCP, thanks!
Also, those sweet sweet ganker tears mmm. Will fill few barrels so I can have some more in those cold winter evenings. Keep em' flowing. |
Xa Charante
The Antiestablishmentarianists
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:11:41 -
[333] - Quote
Xa Charante wrote:Raven Ship wrote:Raw Matters wrote:Careby wrote:As long as you fit it sensibly, it probably won't be ganked. This. I am not sure how you want to gank an Orca if the pilot has at least the basic skills for tanking. The live Orca has already ~200k EHP and with the patch it gets another boost. How is you plan to kill that in high-sec? Throw Maelstroms at it until there are so many Concord ships that the server crashes? You can't get it with suspect either, as mining drones do not react to loot stealing and besides: there is no loot to steal with a cargo hold that huge. Now you can probably bump it away, but keep in mind that the drones have up to 60k range, plus another 24k for potential drone links. I'd say that someone who spends that much time bumping an Orca out of a belt really has serious problems. :D Those suicide catalyst, can deal 600dps? cost few mil. Then concord reaction in 0.5 is 30sec? that gives 18k dps per catalyst, 12 should take current orca down. Now add to that exploit part, that suiciders who have already -10ss, they move arround in pods, and there own alt orca launch catalyst for them in space, so that they can board them and have full time before concord reaction to shoot at your orca. Now add to that fact, that goons are who will gain most from current rorqual changes, somewhere else someone counted how much ratting cariers they lost by last half year, 11, so it will be in there interest to cut down hsec supply, as they will oversupply market in no time with those numbers.
Most Orcas are pushing 450 k ehp, it has almost 500 k ehp with shield burst on. That is a lot more then 12 cats even before I overheat my hardeners which gives me 518 k ehp. |
Xa Charante
The Antiestablishmentarianists
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:17:50 -
[334] - Quote
Je'ron wrote:ROFL at those "OMG They are getting a 600k EHP, 800 DPS, 250k m3, 1600 m3/min, anchorable/unbumpable, mine fleet protecting, boosting Orca" whines.
You will need to fit a lot of modules and rigs on your Orca to get that: DC2, Reinforced Bulkheads, Transverse Bulkhead, Shield extenders, Shield Hardeners, Defense Field Extenders, DDAs, Drone Nav computers, Sebos, Expanded Cargohold, Cargohold Optimizers, Mining Augmentors, MWD, Higgs Anchor, Remote Reps + Augmentors, Remote Shield boosters, Mining Foreman Bursts, Shield Command Bursts.
Remind me again, how much PG & CPU and how many high, med, low and rig slots does the Orca have?
Yeah you cannot get 600 eph and 1600 m3/min. This is miss selling from CCP. Hell you can't even get 1600 m3/min without augmented drones and the new skill at V, and you would need all drone rigs meaning your tank is <400 k I believe. |
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
28
|
Posted - 2016.11.16 22:38:33 -
[335] - Quote
Bitter Fremlin wrote:Note: For all those running Orca:Exhumer yield comparisons...
It would appear that max-boosted Exhumer laser yields are down some 20% since Ascension, e.g. a Hulk is down from 1920m3/cycle/laser to1650m3-ish. Whether that is a non-applied bonus bug or simply down to the Mining Foreman skill now giving boost duration buffs rather than the old-style yield buffs I'll leave for people smarter than me to determine.
If you had a booster within the fleet with a Foreman Mind Link (and they were not in a Command Ship), that was 15% instead of the standard 10% increase in yield - 10/15 has been removed with the burst introduction. Might account for what you are seeing.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Pandemic Legion
18417
|
Posted - 2016.11.17 17:04:16 -
[336] - Quote
Spankerz wrote:Nice Job on the Orca CCP, thanks! Also, those sweet sweet ganker tears mmm. Will fill few barrels so I can have some more in those cold winter evenings. Keep em' flowing.
Looks to me like the tears are from bears. |
Ovigen Cympak
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.19 15:19:59 -
[337] - Quote
Madame Black wrote:laser cycle time has gone from max with boost of 69sec to 61sec with new expansion from what I can tell. Not sure if this make up for the yield lost but it might. doesnt matter they made being a boost for a mining fleet stupid now with boost cycle module being 60 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting over 2 mins with skills. You either micro manage or use twice as much ammo to do the same thing. I personally am done boosting and will only drone mine untill this is fix. There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost. Yet another reason for me to leave eve after being away again.
+111!!! With Command Burst Specialist and Mining Foreman Mindlink boost cycle module being 30 seconds and the fleet duration for applied boost lasting 2 mins with skills
There should be options to make it match or set your own cycle time for module to re apply boost +111!!! |
Dieter Ottenbach
Ottenbach Industries LTD
3
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 02:51:51 -
[338] - Quote
Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........
|
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
894
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 13:23:44 -
[339] - Quote
Dieter Ottenbach wrote:Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........
Or auto run the burst. Tack on the cost of the charges to mineral sales. Boosting others....tell them to give up some charges to get the boosts.
As has been mentioned before tack on new charges to your sales to cover "aggravation" costs of change. Grrr ccp you are making this harder for the isk. Well then up the isk. Crappy low priced selling miners your problem here...and well yeah, its your problem lol.
this is how large scale ship building works. Part of our price is simply charging for the pita of hauling runs. My time on the haul, costs like t2 warp rigs to speed things up (my orca runs one anyway)....this makes it into sales as 5K isk more here, 10k more isk there, etc. |
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1245
|
Posted - 2016.11.20 18:31:09 -
[340] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:Dieter Ottenbach wrote:Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........ Or auto run the burst. Tack on the cost of the charges to mineral sales. Boosting others....tell them to give up some charges to get the boosts. As has been mentioned before tack on new charges to your sales to cover "aggravation" costs of change. Grrr ccp you are making this harder for the isk. Well then up the isk. Crappy low priced selling miners your problem here...and well yeah, its your problem lol. this is how large scale ship building works. Part of our price is simply charging for the pita of hauling runs. My time on the haul, costs like t2 warp rigs to speed things up (my orca runs one anyway)....this makes it into sales as 5K isk more here, 10k more isk there, etc. You know, that is all crap.
You like everyone else sell at market prices or just under, otherwise you would never sell anything.
Tack a bit on here and a bit there for this and that - Your fukin dreaming mate. You can tack on all the extra's you want - and not sell your product (idiots)
NB; It is large scale builders that keep prices low - why do people who have no clue what they are talking about post on topics they have no idea about.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
|
Yudachi POI
Perkone Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 15:57:27 -
[341] - Quote
is anyone can tell me can Command Burst modules effect on my mining drone? |
Cade Windstalker
609
|
Posted - 2016.11.23 16:03:45 -
[342] - Quote
Yudachi POI wrote:is anyone can tell me can Command Burst modules effect on my mining drone?
Nope, Command Bursts don't provide a bonus to Mining Drone yield. You can see this by just looking at the bonuses on the Command Bursts. |
cyennajewelz
The Scope Gallente Federation
3
|
Posted - 2016.11.24 17:46:04 -
[343] - Quote
orca needs about 10 more bandwidth so you can have 2 hobs or 1 hammer out while you ice mine. other than that it works well ore mining with 4 miners and a hob ice mining is where it falls short. |
Shiroe Kumamato
0.0 Massive Dynamic Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
|
Posted - 2016.11.26 14:50:44 -
[344] - Quote
cyennajewelz wrote:orca needs about 10 more bandwidth so you can have 2 hobs or 1 hammer out while you ice mine. other than that it works well ore mining with 4 miners and a hob ice mining is where it falls short.
I agree that ice mining is where it fails. Drop the bandwith needed by ice mining drones enough so the orca can field 2 of them and it would then be balanced to OK.
As a small scale (2 accounts) industrialist, the orca needs to be able to replace an exhumer in the ice belt, for me to use it. |
Gulmuk
Control-Space DARKNESS.
6
|
Posted - 2016.11.27 02:23:48 -
[345] - Quote
Goati wrote:KrazyTaco wrote:Has any thought been given to the implications for NPC corp miners in High Sec now being able to essentially use the Orca as a near invincible default mining platform instead of the traditional barge / exhumer?
Given that the Orca will remain around the same price and it can now mine just as well as a yield fit Mackinaw, receives an extra 33k ehp base, and has a huge ore hold, what will stop a proliferation of Orcas that can't be engaged with in any meaningful way than by all but the largest gank fleets in High Sec? Orcas are very easy to bump. And I see they made the align even worse, by quite a lot. A few bumpers could knock any orcas out of the belt very quickly.
|
Sgt Ocker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1251
|
Posted - 2016.11.27 02:26:21 -
[346] - Quote
Shiroe Kumamato wrote:cyennajewelz wrote:orca needs about 10 more bandwidth so you can have 2 hobs or 1 hammer out while you ice mine. other than that it works well ore mining with 4 miners and a hob ice mining is where it falls short. I agree that ice mining is where it fails. Drop the bandwith needed by ice mining drones enough so the orca can field 2 of them and it would then be balanced to OK. As a small scale (2 accounts) industrialist, the orca needs to be able to replace an exhumer in the ice belt, for me to use it. Sorry but NO it doesn't. The single biggest mistake Devs made was giving Orca's and Rorqual's the ability to mine because there will now always be those who complain "they don't mine well enough".
Shiroe; The Orca is not meant to replace an exhumer - With a single Exhumer mining ice and using the Orca to boost and mine, you are getting roughly the same yield (per minute) as you would with 2 Exhumers (with no boosts), with the added bonus of not having to jet can or dock up each time you fill the Exhumers. So you are actually able to mine more in the same time period..
What would happen if Devs reduce bandwidth of Ice mining drones :- Reduce bandwidth for ice mining drones to 25 m/s - Then increase cycle time by 100%.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
|
Cade Windstalker
612
|
Posted - 2016.11.28 14:42:17 -
[347] - Quote
Shiroe Kumamato wrote:cyennajewelz wrote:orca needs about 10 more bandwidth so you can have 2 hobs or 1 hammer out while you ice mine. other than that it works well ore mining with 4 miners and a hob ice mining is where it falls short. I agree that ice mining is where it fails. Drop the bandwith needed by ice mining drones enough so the orca can field 2 of them and it would then be balanced to OK. As a small scale (2 accounts) industrialist, the orca needs to be able to replace an exhumer in the ice belt, for me to use it.
Then... don't use it? It's a boosting ship, if it's not economical for you to use it then don't use it. Simple as that. The ship isn't meant to be a straight upgrade over an Exhumer.
Sgt Ocker wrote:The single biggest mistake Devs made was giving Orca's and Rorqual's the ability to mine because there will now always be those who complain "they don't mine well enough".
If you haven't noticed the devs are quite adept at ignoring stupid complaints and suggestions. There are five new ones posted in the PFAID forum every day or less and none of the bad ones get so much as a glance from the devs. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
6026
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 02:38:25 -
[348] - Quote
Dieter Ottenbach wrote:Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........
You do not need any third party timer since the buff timers are right there in front of you, assuming you are not AFK.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
6027
|
Posted - 2016.11.29 02:48:19 -
[349] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Anne Sol wrote: so 250mil for killing 700mil worth ship? I call it fair game then.
Now calculate the profit to be made on such a gank.
Now ask the gankers whether they measure profit in ISK or miner tears.
Day 0 Advice for New Players
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Dieter Ottenbach
Ottenbach Industries LTD
3
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 22:03:05 -
[350] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Dieter Ottenbach wrote:Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........ You do not need any third party timer since the buff timers are right there in front of you, assuming you are not AFK.
The purpose of the egg-timer is to draw attention to time just before, and not after, when they (the residual affect on the miners) will expire (and It is not an issue of AFK) - but rather it is situational awareness and "cockpit workload management" issue. Yes, if I only had two accounts running I probably could bother to move the mouse over, hover for a second, wait for the time left to pop back up again every 15 seconds (or alternatively squint to see when the little meter is getting really close on the first miner), but I'm managing several and don't have time for that. The egg-timer is working great thanks... |
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Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3725
|
Posted - 2016.12.02 22:12:29 -
[351] - Quote
Dieter Ottenbach wrote:
The purpose of the egg-timer is to draw attention to time just before, and not after, when they (the residual affect on the miners) will expire (and It is not an issue of AFK) - but rather it is situational awareness and "cockpit workload management" issue. Yes, if I only had two accounts running I probably could bother to move the mouse over, hover for a second, wait for the time left to pop back up again every 15 seconds (or alternatively squint to see when the little meter is getting really close on the first miner), but I'm managing several and don't have time for that. The egg-timer is working great thanks...
Or you could just not fuss about 60k per hour additional cost, because if your operation is even slightly efficient that's insignificant next to what you will be bringing in, and just leave the boosts cycling and worry about the mining and looking out for gankers....... Just a thought. |
Cade Windstalker
623
|
Posted - 2016.12.03 02:40:07 -
[352] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Dieter Ottenbach wrote:
The purpose of the egg-timer is to draw attention to time just before, and not after, when they (the residual affect on the miners) will expire (and It is not an issue of AFK) - but rather it is situational awareness and "cockpit workload management" issue. Yes, if I only had two accounts running I probably could bother to move the mouse over, hover for a second, wait for the time left to pop back up again every 15 seconds (or alternatively squint to see when the little meter is getting really close on the first miner), but I'm managing several and don't have time for that. The egg-timer is working great thanks...
Or you could just not fuss about 60k per hour additional cost, because if your operation is even slightly efficient that's insignificant next to what you will be bringing in, and just leave the boosts cycling and worry about the mining and looking out for gankers....... Just a thought.
While I think this is fair for most people I don't think it's unreasonable to be able to set the auto-cycle to a more useful time, especially when there is a skill that specifically makes the boosts last longer and as things stand the impetus for the majority of pilots to train that skill is going to be pretty minimal.
Basically Eve is about fighting other players, not the UI, and while I agree that it's fair for something like this to not be a major priority for CCP if it's not causing a major inconvenience, it's not fair to say that it's not an issue *just* because it's only 60k ISK per hour or only a few tens of m3 of cargo space to work around it. That's still an issue with the UI and it should be addressed, because an egg timer at your desk doesn't add anything useful or meaningful to the game, it's busy work. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
3726
|
Posted - 2016.12.03 04:18:35 -
[353] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote: Basically Eve is about fighting other players, not the UI, and while I agree that it's fair for something like this to not be a major priority for CCP if it's not causing a major inconvenience, it's not fair to say that it's not an issue *just* because it's only 60k ISK per hour or only a few tens of m3 of cargo space to work around it. That's still an issue with the UI and it should be addressed, because an egg timer at your desk doesn't add anything useful or meaningful to the game, it's busy work.
So instead you want to add busy work to everyone else to have to select the auto cycle time they want and add UI complication at the same time? Your 'fix' is even worse than your problem. |
Cade Windstalker
623
|
Posted - 2016.12.03 20:03:07 -
[354] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:So instead you want to add busy work to everyone else to have to select the auto cycle time they want and add UI complication at the same time? Your 'fix' is even worse than your problem.
That's what default values are for.
CCP would be adding nothing to the chores list of anyone who doesn't care, they would get the same experience as they do now if they don't want to fiddle with the new settings. Besides, something like that is literally a one-time thing, and adds nothing outside of another menu option on the right-click menu for these modules. You wouldn't even need to figure out your cycle time, you'd just need to check the cycle time on the module in space.
That is miles away from worse than the problem unless you just *really* hate change, in which case I think you're playing the wrong game... |
Sikh Sattva
Vibe Squad
0
|
Posted - 2017.01.02 15:00:40 -
[355] - Quote
Am I the only one that is against on-grid boosts? May as-well scrap my Orca and my dream of getting a Rorqual.
At least make it ON GRID... not 30km bursts... |
Regan Rotineque
The Scope Gallente Federation
473
|
Posted - 2017.01.07 12:48:20 -
[356] - Quote
The odd thing I find is that you get these huge bonuses to tractor ranges, yet you have only 35km range on the boosts.
That being said, the overall range thing is an issue in larger belts, anomolies where you are often way over 35km apart from the orca, and rather than being able to complete the belts, anoms easily you are having to slowboat an orca around.
Would make far more sense to match the tractor/boost range on these. So you can have someone say 60-80km away from you and then tractor in the can they drop. |
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1290
|
Posted - 2017.01.08 04:02:45 -
[357] - Quote
Regan Rotineque wrote:The odd thing I find is that you get these huge bonuses to tractor ranges, yet you have only 35km range on the boosts.
That being said, the overall range thing is an issue in larger belts, anomolies where you are often way over 35km apart from the orca, and rather than being able to complete the belts, anoms easily you are having to slowboat an orca around.
Would make far more sense to match the tractor/boost range on these. So you can have someone say 60-80km away from you and then tractor in the can they drop. "Would make far more sense" - Right there is the problem.
What makes sense and would be useful, is not taken into consideration during development.
Bonuses don't match what would be optimal use and never will. From a development point of view, making bonuses and skills useful would be game breaking. This is after all Eve - Where for Devs, getting it half right is the norm.
I mean take the skill "fleet command" as an example - With optimal remap and +3's going from lvl 4 to 5 is 51 days for a measly 5% extra range on bursts. A rank 12 skill that really adds very little for the time it takes to train it, seriously, 50+ days of training 1 level for 2Km extra range to give a maximum range of 49Km.
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Cade Windstalker
709
|
Posted - 2017.01.09 15:35:12 -
[358] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:The odd thing I find is that you get these huge bonuses to tractor ranges, yet you have only 35km range on the boosts.
That being said, the overall range thing is an issue in larger belts, anomolies where you are often way over 35km apart from the orca, and rather than being able to complete the belts, anoms easily you are having to slowboat an orca around.
Would make far more sense to match the tractor/boost range on these. So you can have someone say 60-80km away from you and then tractor in the can they drop. "Would make far more sense" - Right there is the problem. What makes sense and would be useful, is not taken into consideration during development. Bonuses don't match what would be optimal use and never will. From a development point of view, making bonuses and skills useful would be game breaking. This is after all Eve - Where for Devs, getting it half right is the norm. I mean take the skill "fleet command" as an example - With optimal remap and +3's going from lvl 4 to 5 is 51 days for a measly 5% extra range on bursts. A rank 12 skill that really adds very little for the time it takes to train it, seriously, 50+ days of training 1 level for 2Km extra range to give a maximum range of 49Km.
I can almost guarantee you his was taken into consideration, and someone probably went "well, we want the boost range here because that's the bigger balance concern. Should we nerf the tractor range to match?"
At which point someone went "Nah, they'd just complain about that"
So yeah, unless what you're asking for here is for the tractor range bonus to be nerfed I don't think you actually want them to match.
CCP have said very similar things on other questions regarding tractor/salvage/ect bonuses that have very small effects on a ship's overall performance but break conventions like this, and the response has generally been "Well, do you really want us to take this away just to fit convention?" |
Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1290
|
Posted - 2017.01.10 10:41:53 -
[359] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Regan Rotineque wrote:The odd thing I find is that you get these huge bonuses to tractor ranges, yet you have only 35km range on the boosts.
That being said, the overall range thing is an issue in larger belts, anomolies where you are often way over 35km apart from the orca, and rather than being able to complete the belts, anoms easily you are having to slowboat an orca around.
Would make far more sense to match the tractor/boost range on these. So you can have someone say 60-80km away from you and then tractor in the can they drop. "Would make far more sense" - Right there is the problem. What makes sense and would be useful, is not taken into consideration during development. Bonuses don't match what would be optimal use and never will. From a development point of view, making bonuses and skills useful would be game breaking. This is after all Eve - Where for Devs, getting it half right is the norm. I mean take the skill "fleet command" as an example - With optimal remap and +3's going from lvl 4 to 5 is 51 days for a measly 5% extra range on bursts. A rank 12 skill that really adds very little for the time it takes to train it, seriously, 50+ days of training 1 level for 2Km extra range to give a maximum range of 49Km. I can almost guarantee you his was taken into consideration, and someone probably went "well, we want the boost range here because that's the bigger balance concern. Should we nerf the tractor range to match?" At which point someone went "Nah, they'd just complain about that" So yeah, unless what you're asking for here is for the tractor range bonus to be nerfed I don't think you actually want them to match. CCP have said very similar things on other questions regarding tractor/salvage/ect bonuses that have very small effects on a ship's overall performance but break conventions like this, and the response has generally been "Well, do you really want us to take this away just to fit convention?" Actually the problem is the lack of range with boosts combined with the rank of the skills and their minimal effect for training time., If you had bothered to read my whole post you would know that.
The tractor beam bonus is all but irrelevant when you can't have your miners far enough away to make use of it - So yeah I suppose leaving a bonus that has little to no use; is right up devs alley and totally inline with current design trends (half baked, not finished).
I have an idea, fix the bonus given for training leadership skills (wing command & fleet command) so they match the rank of the skills - Wouldn't that be "balanced".
Wing & Fleet Command, 0 to 5.. 94 hours per KM boost range for a maximum of 19KM (not very efficient use of paid game time)
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Cade Windstalker
710
|
Posted - 2017.01.11 20:12:08 -
[360] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Actually the problem is the lack of range with boosts combined with the rank of the skills and their minimal effect for training time., If you had bothered to read my whole post you would know that.
The tractor beam bonus is all but irrelevant when you can't have your miners far enough away to make use of it - So yeah I suppose leaving a bonus that has little to no use; is right up devs alley and totally inline with current design trends (half baked, not finished).
I have an idea, fix the bonus given for training leadership skills (wing command & fleet command) so they match the rank of the skills - Wouldn't that be "balanced".
Wing & Fleet Command, 0 to 5.. 94 hours per KM boost range for a maximum of 19KM (not very efficient use of paid game time)
Boosts intentionally have a limited range to force you to make trade offs and to make positioning at least slightly more important. It also forces you to keep the boosting ship closer to the ships it's affecting, which is important in fleet combat.
There's absolutely nothing half-baked about leaving the tractor beam bonus as-is. Yes, it won't see too much use if you're within boosting range of something, but the options there are to take it away or just leave it as-is so as not to break whatever minimal use it might have.
Your numbers for fleet and wing boosts are laughable. You're taking the level 5 trains, which aren't a big impact, and holding those up as the problem. If you ignore the unneeded level 5s, or even just the level 5 on fleet, you get something much more reasonable for the effect.
No one's forcing you to train those to 5. If you don't want to then don't. |
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Sgt Ocker
What Corp is it
1291
|
Posted - 2017.01.12 13:04:23 -
[361] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:Actually the problem is the lack of range with boosts combined with the rank of the skills and their minimal effect for training time., If you had bothered to read my whole post you would know that.
The tractor beam bonus is all but irrelevant when you can't have your miners far enough away to make use of it - So yeah I suppose leaving a bonus that has little to no use; is right up devs alley and totally inline with current design trends (half baked, not finished).
I have an idea, fix the bonus given for training leadership skills (wing command & fleet command) so they match the rank of the skills - Wouldn't that be "balanced".
Wing & Fleet Command, 0 to 5.. 94 hours per KM boost range for a maximum of 19KM (not very efficient use of paid game time)
Boosts intentionally have a limited range to force you to make trade offs and to make positioning at least slightly more important. It also forces you to keep the boosting ship closer to the ships it's affecting, which is important in fleet combat. There's absolutely nothing half-baked about leaving the tractor beam bonus as-is. Yes, it won't see too much use if you're within boosting range of something, but the options there are to take it away or just leave it as-is so as not to break whatever minimal use it might have. Your numbers for fleet and wing boosts are laughable. You're taking the level 5 trains, which aren't a big impact, and holding those up as the problem. If you ignore the unneeded level 5s, or even just the level 5 on fleet, you get something much more reasonable for the effect. No one's forcing you to train those to 5. If you don't want to then don't. Ok, sorry but your wrong, level 5's are required for anything close to reasonable range. Oh and the prerequisite for "fleet command" is wing command 5 so close to 40 days there alone, for very minimal gain in range unless you consider 30K range on boosts as enough. 37km with roughly 8 days training for wing command 4, then over a month for the next 1km and to unlock the next skill.
What if anything at all does fleet combat have to do with mining? Which is what we were discussing.. Command ships get a role bonus of 100% to boost, which is ok. Yet industrial command ships only get 50%. That 15km makes a big difference..
My opinions are mine.
If you don't like them or disagree with me that's OK.- - - - - -
Just don't bother Hating - I don't care
It really is getting harder and harder to justify $23 a month for each sub.
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Cade Windstalker
711
|
Posted - 2017.01.12 16:53:41 -
[362] - Quote
Sgt Ocker wrote:Ok, sorry but your wrong, level 5's are required for anything close to reasonable range. Oh and the prerequisite for "fleet command" is wing command 5 so close to 40 days there alone, for very minimal gain in range unless you consider 30K range on boosts as enough. 37km with roughly 8 days training for wing command 4, then over a month for the next 1km and to unlock the next skill.
What if anything at all does fleet combat have to do with mining? Which is what we were discussing.. Command ships get a role bonus of 100% to boost, which is ok. Yet industrial command ships only get 50%. That 15km makes a big difference..
I'm not sure of your grasp of the English language or maybe it is just your narrow minded interpretation of what I wrote but I wasn't holding anything up as "the problem" and I certainly didn't say the tractor beam bonus was half baked, I suggested a way to make those lvl 5 skills worth training. A month for 1km of range, just to unlock the next skill that will add minimal range is somewhat a joke - Poor development, poorer implementation of the new boosts.
It is a direct and deliberate nerf to miners.
As for half baked, unfinished things being put into the game - Take a look at Citadels and EC's (EC's especially), there is still more you can't do with them than there is with.
I misspoke, I thought that they'd changed Fleet Command to only require Wing 4, that was my mistake. That said you still don't *need* Fleet 5 to get good range out of these ships. If you do feel you need it, and it's that integral, then it's not that the train isn't worth the time it's that you don't like the time required.
Yes, range does matter, which is why CCP didn't match the boost range to the tractor range. The point of this isn't to make it super easy to cover everyone on grid with a single ship.
If I had to guess mining ships get reduced range because they move less and will have a much easier time positioning meaning they needed the reduced range to cause people to make tradeoffs with their boosting ships and positioning. You could bring another booster, or you could cluster up in a potentially less optimal configuration but trade the second booster for a mining ship.
Combat ships, on the other hand, are more likely to have disparate fleet element in different parts of the grid, so they get a bigger range boost.
By the way I'd appreciate it if you'd leave the personal attacks out of it, thanks, I haven't insulted you so I'd appreciate it if you'd return the favor.
As far as things being "half finished" I disagree on all points. The boosting changes as a whole, when combined with the changes to the mining ships themselves, were absolutely a buff to mining. You can't free-boost from inside a POS now, but you of all people should be in favor of getting rid of a free-lunch mechanic like that. The range changes affect, at best, 1% of belts in the game and most of those are in Null where you can use a sieged Rorqual if you so choose. Other than that it's just a matter of considering your positioning a little more when mining, and industry is nothing if not an activity about calculations and planning if you want to get optimal results.
Citadels are an intentionally piecemeal implementation. That was written on the tin when they started and it's the only reasonable way to put something of that size into the game. Otherwise they'd be in dev for 2-3 years with the players seeing basically nothing, then getting dumped in, inevitably having bugs and other issues all crop up at once, and both the devs and players scrambling to adjust to such a massive change. You're free to disagree if you like, you're also free to go start up your own game studio where you can do things your way. Let me know how that works out for you if you do. |
Penance Toralen
Compass Fox
28
|
Posted - 2017.01.12 21:45:43 -
[363] - Quote
Cade Windstalker wrote:Sgt Ocker wrote:evel 5's are required for anything close to reasonable range. Oh and the prerequisite for "fleet command" is wing command 5 so close to 40 days there alone, for very minimal gain in range unless you consider 30K range on boosts as enough. 37km with roughly 8 days training for wing command 4, then over a month for the next 1km and to unlock the next skill.
What if anything at all does fleet combat have to do with mining? Which is what we were discussing.. Command ships get a role bonus of 100% to boost, which is ok. Yet industrial command ships only get 50%. That 15km makes a big difference..
It is a direct and deliberate nerf to miners. That said you still don't *need* Fleet 5 to get good range out of these ships. If you do feel you need it, and it's that integral, then it's not that the train isn't worth the time it's that you don't like the time required. Yes, range does matter, which is why CCP didn't match the boost range to the tractor range. The point of this isn't to make it super easy to cover everyone on grid with a single ship. If I had to guess mining ships get reduced range because they move less and will have a much easier time positioning meaning they needed the reduced range to cause people to make tradeoffs with their boosting ships and positioning. You could bring another booster, or you could cluster up in a potentially less optimal configuration but trade the second booster for a mining ship.
A nerf to miners? After the Orca received a massive overhaul; improved tanking, capable Shield RR and huge increase in ore carry capacity. I will gladly trade 50% range. I am still looking at WingCmdr V as a bitter pill. (sugar coated Injectors will still leave bad taste). But it is a decision all fleet boosters have to make, regardless of their discipline. The only time I find that range becomes an issue is with Ore Anoms which can be spread over a significant area.
I would point to the option of Harvester Implants to assist overcoming this issue. Which again raises my point that Outer Ring is only available from Null; when both Sisters (Virtue) and Thukker (Nomad) are directly accessible in High-Sec through their LP. Perhaps with the changes to Deep Core Mining and other NPC mining corps, their LP stores could offer a Resource implant series in Slot 9 for miners to increase harvesting ranges.
Clustering up and sitting still are some of the primary contributing factors to miners being targets of convenience. It was the introduction of the Higgs Anchor intended to relieve these factors. So yes, the reduced range is a nerf which lacks a reasonable explanation.
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Khan Wrenth
Ore Oppression Prevention and Salvation
743
|
Posted - 2017.01.13 02:05:18 -
[364] - Quote
Penance Toralen wrote:Clustering up and sitting still are some of the primary contributing factors to miners being targets of convenience
I respectfully disagree. Being spread out is a bad thing. For one, which was just mentioned by you, Orcas now have remote shield rep capability and shield command boost ability, and considering that remote reps operate best in optimal range, yes you should be close to rest of fleet. Also worth noting: drone travel time in regards to defense. I've ganked a few retrievers myself, I freely admit that. The hardest kill I had was a retriever kill smack in the middle of a mining fleet that was almost entirely skiffs. Because they were all clustered together, getting a proper warp-in on him was a nightmare and they almost got me with their defense drones before I could pop him. If the skiffs weren't afk themselves, they would have sent their drones in enough time to save their odd-man-out-in-a-retriever bro. It was their AFK that killed him, not their clustering together. If they were spread out it would have been a piece of cake and no reaction time would have been enough to sic the drones on me due to distance.
So yes, clustering together saves lives. It's the same principle in play for herd animals. There's a reason it's done - it's a good idea.
Now, yes I'm talking about highsec mining. But if we're talking about low or null, I doubt there's anyone fielding a mining fleet with neuts in system or that being spread out is going to save you.
Let's discuss overhauling the way we get intel in EvE.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
3537
|
Posted - 2017.01.20 10:42:00 -
[365] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:Dieter Ottenbach wrote:Looks like I should invest in an egg-timer in order to do efficient Orca Mining boosting ........ You do not need any third party timer since the buff timers are right there in front of you, assuming you are not AFK.
... i use timers for my combat boosts and siege cycles. if you want to be efficient don't go off the in game cycle
BLOPS Hauler
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