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Is Goonswarm wrong to target every Exhumer in Empire for nothing?

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Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:47:00 - [511] Quote: Goonies must not have made it to Auvergne yet. I was pirating there last night, and the first 7 belts were empty of roids, with a stalled macro-miner Hulk just floating there in each one. Some with TWO Hulks. Just floating there, waiting for a suicider. Did they have anything good equipped? Sounds like I'll need to fly around in my covops a bit tonight :p
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:47:00 - [512] Originally by: Ulstan Quote: Isn't it against some rule/policy of CCP, to bring RL politics or regligion into the game? Not only is that a ******** rule, I don't see how you could enforce it. O.o It's not even what's happening here, so why that point even got raised I'll never know. Oh perhaps someone was referring to their video? Oh well. Talk to Youtube. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:49:00 - [513] Edited by: Nasta443 on 04/03/2008 18:49:09 Originally by: TeddyBr FTW The Goons are soon to be dying. Come on over to see why... and how to help out. Goonie Gasbags On Notice: Death Is Coming That looks like a failthread. btw, yes, i agree they most liekly have no effect. but even if they do, its a good one as i have stated. so pinatas have no reason to complain.
Dingi223	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:51:00 - [514] Edited by: Dingi223 on 04/03/2008 18:55:57 Edited by: Dingi223 on 04/03/2008 18:55:04 Edited by: Dingi223 on 04/03/2008 18:53:53 Edited by: Dingi223 on 04/03/2008 18:51:29 Originally by: Zeba 20ish goonies killing a couple of hundred barges will have no effect on production levels of the literally thousands of miners out there. It would suprise me greatly if even a fraction of the greater minerbase even knows anything about the jihadswarm or has seen anyone actually get ganked. According to the 3rd QEN, there were 5,850 Hulks flying about. Granted, this doesn't count Hulks sitting in hangars unusued, however let's assume this reasonably reflects the serious miners out there. According to the 4th QEN, the production of Hulks was around 4,000 per month for the months of Oct, Nov and Dec '07. It appears then that Hulks have a fairly large turnover, or people are hoarding more and more of them to gather dust. Either way, we have the number. GS have destroyed 400 Exhumers, let's assume 50% are Hulks and 50% are Mack's. So 200 Hulks in 3 weeks odd, let's say 300 a month once we extrapolate the data to a full month. Unfortunately I do not have the data to know out of the Hulks in existence if all are active. I would have to assume CCP's data only includes active subscriptions, and therefore most are active. Summary GS have managed to kill 5% of all Hulks in existence. According to Hulk production, this can be replaced within 3 days, so they have impacted the production cycle by 3 days, or 10% a month. Let's say this again, in 1 month, they have will have killed 3 days worth of production. Sure, some pilots will not be able to simply buy a new Hulk, but more experienced miners and players will, they'll adapt, and keep going I'm sure. Taking a step back, I just don't see how that is going to impact the larger scheme of the economy or mineral prices. In addition, they are only hitting 1 class of mining ship out of many, so the impact on the overall economy is miniscule. I appreciate that they may be enjoying themselves, but it's a drop in the ocean. If they notched this Jihad up a few notches, and got those figures in 20-30% range, then I think you would see a notable squeeze.
Rustiko Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:53:00 - [515] It's actually a brilliant strategy to dominate 0.0. They are mostly targeting ice miners who keep the empire ice costs relatively low. By eliminating or scaring them off the price will increase, making the maintenance and/or taking of 0.0 space using POS's more costly. Large alliances, however, will have enough 'safe' space to be able to mine their own ice in 0.0 or to have resident corps who mine it and put it on the market. I'm guessing this is the plan and in my opinion is a very crafty one. This whole venture is easily financed by one or two Dysprosium moons in 0.0. Either that or they are extremely bored... Does anyone know if you already have existing concord in a belt if the response time is quicker? If you bring an alt in a noob ship and attack yourself you can effectively build up a concord force to protect a belt. Not sure if that increases response time.
DasNara Aethelwulf Blackwater Syndicate ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.03.04 19:59:00 - [516] You know, as an idividual that spends probably 80% of his time mining, I mixed feelings on the topic of this thread. part of me is cheering them on. Bot's are a problem, I can't fight very well, so I'm glad that an Alliance is at least trying to do something about it. The interesting question I have is if GS does this too much or if they abuse this, CCP will probably eliminate suicide ganking as an option (I'm not sure that it counts under non-constentual combat; yeah you didn't want it, but if it's allowed, why do you take the sec hit and Concord shoot at you?) They may be thinking about eleiminating Concord so that you can gank anyone anywhere. The worry that I have is I would like to get an Hulk some day, I might end up loosing it to this kind of attack. But then, prices will raise for minerals....It's a mixed bag. The thing about it is that I think this Jihad is a cover to; like the previous post said; raise fuel prices, if that's the case it's brillant. It's not a exploit, it's a legitimate tactic, and I support it as such. If that's the case; I have a suggestion for GS. Until CCP rules on this particular method; use privateers, fiance other corps to do it. Governments do that all the time So for now, No, GoonSwarm is not wrong to do this; as I've stated in the feature forum, they could not kill enough miners to effect anything unless they all do it; But I think that I will root for GS because I can't fight the bots. My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:58:00 - [517] Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 04/03/2008 23:58:19 Originally by: Rustiko It's actually a brilliant strategy to dominate 0.0. They are mostly targeting ice miners who keep the empire ice costs relatively low. By eliminating or scaring them off the price will increase, making the maintenance and/or taking of 0.0 space using POS's more costly. Large alliances, however, will have enough 'safe' space to be able to mine their own ice in 0.0 or to have resident corps who mine it and put it on the market. I'm guessing this is the plan and in my opinion is a very crafty one. This whole venture is easily financed by one or two Dysprosium moons in 0.0. Either that or they are extremely bored... Does anyone know if you already have existing concord in a belt if the response time is quicker? If you bring an alt in a noob ship and attack yourself you can effectively build up a concord force to protect a belt. Not sure if that increases response time. I'm guessing they're extremely bored. Or at least, this wasn't planned, and grew out of some joke among the Goons into a larger set of ganks. Now it looks even bigger because we're making 18 (Edit: 19!) page threads yelling about it. As for CONCORD, I believe they do respond immediately to aggression when they're already in the area. I was in a Kestrel when someone tricked another player (also in a Kestrel) into suicide attacking me. CONCORD spawned and spanked him. A few minutes later in the same belt, a Raven tried to kill me. Only one missile out of his volley actually hit me, and CONCORD proceeded to gank him. Unfortunately he had corpmates nearby, so I couldn't loot him. I did get the salvage though. The funny thing is, I wasn't even carrying anything remotely valuable! -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:26:00 - [518] Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:34:00 - [519] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could. It would be amusing if CCP calculated the GTC sales were rising because of the gihadÖ and they therefore decided to let it run... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:39:00 - [520] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could. It would be amusing if CCP calculated the GTC sales were rising because of the gihadÖ and they therefore decided to let it run... I'm not sure if i believe it tbh, in the weeks before the torp nerf I killed several isk farmer haulers and guess what? Entirely full of cruise missile launchers and cruise missile skill books, the isk farmers are well prepared, perhaps this jihadswarm will just cause more isk farming ravens to head to 0.0 or mission farming instead of mining macros. We also killed quite a few isk farmer haulers full of cruise missiles in anchorable containers heading out there, we would get about 20mil per can that dropped so up to 60mil per hauler, but they would keep coming until they got at least 2 haulers through and hidden deeper in 0.0 I have no idea how much money you can make ratting in 1 day if you need 120mil worth of missiles to do it

Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:42:00 - [521] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could. It would be amusing if CCP calculated the GTC sales were rising because of the gihadÖ and they therefore decided to let it run... I'm not sure if i believe it tbh, in the weeks before the torp nerf I killed several isk farmer haulers and guess what? Entirely full of cruise missile launchers and cruise missile skill books, the isk farmers are well prepared, perhaps this jihadswarm will just cause more isk farming ravens to head to 0.0 or mission farming instead of mining macros. We also killed quite a few isk farmer haulers full of cruise missiles in anchorable containers heading out there, we would get about 20mil per can that dropped so up to 60mil per hauler, but they would keep coming until they got at least 2 haulers through and hidden deeper in 0.0 I have no idea how much money you can make ratting in 1 day if you need 120mil worth of missiles to do it That's more likely a longer term deplyment then a day. Anyways the best ratting can be done ammo less.
Jair Aequanimitas Gallente Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:11:00 - [522] I have noticed that minerals in my area are more expensive... It seems to be something that happened over the last 3 weeks... not just the last week... but perhaps?
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:15:00 - [523] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could. It would be amusing if CCP calculated the GTC sales were rising because of the gihadÖ and they therefore decided to let it run... I'm not sure if i believe it tbh, in the weeks before the torp nerf I killed several isk farmer haulers and guess what? Entirely full of cruise missile launchers and cruise missile skill books, the isk farmers are well prepared, perhaps this jihadswarm will just cause more isk farming ravens to head to 0.0 or mission farming instead of mining macros. We also killed quite a few isk farmer haulers full of cruise missiles in anchorable containers heading out there, we would get about 20mil per can that dropped so up to 60mil per hauler, but they would keep coming until they got at least 2 haulers through and hidden deeper in 0.0 I have no idea how much money you can make ratting in 1 day if you need 120mil worth of missiles to do it When we hear more crying about how hard it is for solo players to make it in 0.0 then we'll know... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:27:00 - [524] Wait, people use ammo to rat? --- Join BH-DL Skills
Wloire Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:53:00 - [525] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Wloire Real Wolrd Physics coming into this argument. Can you as a random citizen of whatever country you belong to be shot and killed in front of a police station? Considering how inept or outright corrupt the law is in most of the world you so gladly suggested as an RL reference, I propose that you, a random citizen of whatever country, are just as likely to be shot IN the police station as in front of it. I think CONCORD's pretty realistic in this regard. Like most law enforcement agencies, they're thoroughly inept and excessively brutal. They'll gladly wipe out a battleship crew of six thousand because their vessel shot an inanimate cargo can, but won't respond fast enough to save a dying miner. I also think the cries of these bleating carebears will go as unheard as the cries of Kitty Genovese in 1964 New York - now that's a real world allegory you should look up. See I'm in support of your agument. I believe I failed to mention that in my original post.
ceyriot Crimson Rebellion	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:44:00 - [526] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: Relaed Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Says who. Originally by: Relaed losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? You are never assured that in empire you are completely safe. Originally by: Relaed harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. Lag ruins eve online for far more than 140 people and hey, its still there. 1. Says who? says pretty much everyone except you. Its now about 500 exhumers. The game is designed so you are almost safe in empire space. Lag ruins EvE for many people? umm....sure...hopefully you're one of them so you can now quit and gtfo.
Zantrei Kordisin True Centii	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:45:00 - [527] Originally by: Thread Topic Is Goonswarm wrong to target every Exhumer in Empire for nothing? No. It's actually pretty funny, really. I'm a bit of a bastard though, I guess.
Zantrei Kordisin True Centii	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:47:00 - [528] Originally by: ceyriot 1. Says who? says pretty much everyone except you. Its now about 500 exhumers. The game is designed so you are almost safe in empire space. I'm pretty certain that CONCORD is there to like, provide consequences to actions, not to prevent the actions from taking place. Else, it would have been designed differently. There is no 'safe' space. Only 'safer' space. The sooner people understand that high sec isn't supposed to be 100% risk free, the better. All this forum whining is getting rather irritating. Well, actually it's fairly entertaining, provides a lot of opportunity to laugh at the stupidity of others.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:03:00 - [529] Edited by: cal nereus on 05/03/2008 03:04:01 CONCORD and the Faction Fleets are not out to serve and protect. They are out to punish and destroy. They also have a short attention span. And they blob. And they gate camp. And they sometimes shoot people just for entering their space. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:09:00 - [530] Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin I'm pretty certain that CONCORD is there to like, provide consequences to actions, not to prevent the actions from taking place. Else, it would have been designed differently. Suicide ganking has no consequences. Use T1 ship. Insurance pays you. You buy another. No consequences.

Sarakiel	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:26:00 - [531] Originally by: Cipher7 Suicide ganking has no consequences. Use T1 ship. Insurance pays you. You buy another. No consequences. By your logic flying a covetor has no consequences either. The fact is there are consequences no matter what, they only vary by degree of time and money. Keep it up goons.
Barwinius Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:33:00 - [532] DonÆt worry; Goons will be out of sec status sooner or later. 50 down, 5600 to go!
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:34:00 - [533] Originally by: Dingi223 According to the 4th QEN, the production of Hulks was around 4,000 per month for the months of Oct, Nov and Dec '07. It appears then that Hulks have a fairly large turnover, or people are hoarding more and more of them to gather dust. Either way, we have the number. So each month almost every single hulk in the EvE universe is destroyed and a new one is built? The thing to realize here is that some parts like 0.0 will have a large turnover, while high-sec hulks will live for months. --- Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:37:00 - [534] More ships are destroyed in empire than in 0.0. So, I suspect more hulks are destroyed in empire than in 0.0 too. I'm calling it now. I have no facts or figures to back it up, but none of you cares about that, so I'm safe. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:41:00 - [535] Originally by: Sarakiel By your logic flying a covetor has no consequences either. If it was insurable that would be true.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:43:00 - [536] Originally by: cal nereus More ships are destroyed in empire than in 0.0. So, I suspect more hulks are destroyed in empire than in 0.0 too. I'm calling it now. I have no facts or figures to back it up, but none of you cares about that, so I'm safe. Open your map. Set it to "ships destroyed in last 24 hours" See the giant red blob in the middle? That's hisec. Now look at 0.0 See how it's nice and clear? 0.0 is as safe or safer than "high sec."
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.03.05 04:07:00 - [537] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Sarakiel By your logic flying a covetor has no consequences either. If it was insurable that would be true. And it is insurable. I would suggest you brush up on Eve before posting.
Banichi Atigieni	Posted - 2008.03.05 04:55:00 - [538] Edited by: Banichi Atigieni on 05/03/2008 04:56:38 Wrong toon.
Gark32 X Bane X	Posted - 2008.03.05 04:58:00 - [539] Carebears, This game is more like Reality than anything you may experience in your entire life. if you're at work, flipping burgers of testing Kleenexes or whatever it is that you do, and someone comes up to you and grabs you what do you do? Fight? Run? Scream bloody murder til someone comes to help? i'm guessing option three. so you scream, and you scream, waah the bad man is hurting me! Eventually the police or a security guard or a five year old or someone will come to help. what you've done then is exactly what you're doing now, to defend yourself: Nothing. Crying to the powers (and five year olds) that be, hoping that someone will do what you're not willing to: Put up your dukes, learn to defend yourself, and stop being a child. you want someone to take you by the hand, walk you to school then to work then back home and tuck you in. guess what? Life isn't like that. Eve isn't like that. Deal with it, or /wrists.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 05:09:00 - [540] hey guys i'm about to beat celot on the jihadswarm killboard ~BOOYAH~ i have to buy brutixes in bulk im going through them so fast its pretty awesome so hello thread! i am v. happy that you are happy!



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