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Is Goonswarm wrong to target every Exhumer in Empire for nothing?

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Relaed Minmatar Shadows of the Dead The Dawn of Darkness	Posted - 2008.03.02 04:49:00 - [1] http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills Killboard Seems Goonswarm has decided to target and destroy every exhumer they can get their hands on. Over 140 Exhumers in one week so far, and counting. There is no war dec or anything, so what is going on CCP? Is it wrong for the Largest Alliance in the game to be able to use their overwhelming resources from 0.0. to build and suicide Battleships, just to harrass and ruin the game experience in empire space, for some many people, those that don't want to take part in 0.0 affairs? It is wrong. Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Seems CCP really needs to address this problem, punish the offending corp and or alliance for such blatant harassment, instead of locking it down and trying to hide the serious issue this is becoming. Would you pay to play a game where all the high level characters could just come in and destroy everything you have worked for, with and for no good reason, and your losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? Where do we go to petition all these losses in empire space that are uninsured, and should be considered exploitative, harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. I think each corp and alliance represented by the attackers, should have their security standings reduced, every member. What do you folks think?
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.02 04:51:00 - [2] OLD NEWS
Manipulator General o.0	Posted - 2008.03.02 04:55:00 - [3] No.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.02 04:56:00 - [4] Originally by: Relaed Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Says who. Originally by: Relaed losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? You are never assured that in empire you are completely safe. Originally by: Relaed harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. Lag ruins eve online for far more than 140 people and hey, its still there.
hangnoose Caldari Thundercats RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.02 04:58:00 - [5] LOOK LOOK I'M CARING! Wait........... no i'm not.
Dimagus	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:00:00 - [6] Suiciding 140 different people is okay. Suiciding the same person 140 times is not. Are you claiming something insane like it's a BoB conspiracy botnet running 140 miner accounts, or are you just whining because you/your corp/your mining gang lost an exhumer?
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:01:00 - [7] Miner tears. They suck.
Adarr Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:01:00 - [8] If CCP builds it, they will come.
Frug Repo Industries R.E.P.O.	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:01:00 - [9] Originally by: Dimagus Suiciding 140 different people is okay. Suiciding the same person 140 times is not. Since when? I can suicide you all I want. - - - - - - - - - Do not use dotted lines - - - - - - - If you think I'm awesome, say BOOO BOOO!! - Ductoris Neat look what I found - Kreul Hey, my marbles
Zemi Dahut GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:05:00 - [10] No.

Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:07:00 - [11] Originally by: Frug Originally by: Dimagus Suiciding 140 different people is okay. Suiciding the same person 140 times is not. Since when? I can suicide you all I want. Because it gets called griefing although you could probably complain that you can't wardec them since they'll just drop corp
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:09:00 - [12] what about the alliance coalition against macro miners? they are fighting in the tourny while we speak and have been doing the same thing for a long time. why didn't they get any hot water?
Manipulator General o.0	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:11:00 - [13] No.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:16:00 - [14] Edited by: cal nereus on 02/03/2008 05:17:57 I understand and appreciate where you are coming from, Relaed. Before I go on, I would like to recommend that you and other Exhumer pilots in high-sec take steps to defend yourself in-game. Start defenses gangs, use intel, use clever counter-strategies, fly through lower-population systems, avoid hotspots for these attacks, etc. I sympathize with your plight and hope you can find an in-game solution for your difficulties. Show those Goons what a miner with teeth is really capable of. That said... I would like to point out that Goons aren't attacking Exhumers for nothing. It isn't really harassment either, since they're attacking indiscriminately. CCP fully endorses "suicide" attacks in high-sec, as long as Concord gets to pew-pew too. Goons are playing within the rules of the game, but you can fight back against them within the rules of the game too. Use the infinite tools you have at your disposal to counter their actions. You don't need an out-of-game power to save you. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Scorsigaar	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:25:00 - [15] Is goonswarm like a wow guild or something?
Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:27:00 - [16] Edited by: Aprudena Gist on 02/03/2008 05:27:54 man its only 140 this week there is way more if you check the other weeks too. its about 300 total exhumers so far.
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:27:00 - [17] Originally by: Relaed Is it wrong for the Largest Alliance in the game to be able to use their overwhelming resources from 0.0. to build and suicide Battleships, just to harrass and ruin the game experience in empire space, for some many people, those that don't want to take part in 0.0 affairs? It is wrong. It's unethical in the extreme but since when has being unethical been "wrong" in Eve? I'd be mad at them if they suicide ganked me, but there's enough Goon newbs around that you can always find someone to get revenge on. You can also hang around known killzones in Empire and just loot the goon wrecks.
Alekseyev Karrde Noir.	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:27:00 - [18] I sympathize, but there's really nothing surprising about this. Goonswarm has stated from day one they are in EVE to break it, and ever since they've been trying various ways to do this. Now that they're the dominant 0.0 power they are turning toward the vast majoirty of the players in the game, which do reside in empire and hardly leave, and are becoming "terrorists". Now there are many solutions to this from the miner perspective. One in particular I'll advance because it's my area of "expertise": Hire mercenaries against Goonswarm. I've seen the killboard link and quite frankly any decently equipped merc corp would be able to nip an aspiring Goon ganker in the bud. Sure it would be expensive, but if several victems pooled their resources and bargined collectivly, it wouldnt be all that bad compared to the increased costs and loss of peace of mind Goonswarm is currently causing. Dont expect the playerbase to defend or pity support you because you got suicide ganked alongside a few hundred others. Not much in EVE gets done through charity, anything being related to Chribba being a notable exception. However, I'll put it forward that my corp would be more than happy to be the, or one of the, units contracted for such an undertaking. Get organized, pool your resources, and contract out to those who specialize in what you need done. Zombie Apocalypse Guitar-Wielding Superteam
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:28:00 - [19] You link a killboard yet don't add up that there making a circuit of regular miner havens. Leave don't go near these areas for the next few weeks. If you use local you can tell when these people are in system so why keep mining when there around? There is so many things you can do to combat this just use your head. This will be the last time I say this but goons are actually doing a good thing for EvE .
Dirk Magnum Spearhead Endeavors	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde I sympathize, but there's really nothing surprising about this. Goonswarm has stated from day one they are in EVE to break it, and ever since they've been trying various ways to do this. Now that they're the dominant 0.0 power they are turning toward the vast majoirty of the players in the game, which do reside in empire and hardly leave, and are becoming "terrorists". Now there are many solutions to this from the miner perspective. One in particular I'll advance because it's my area of "expertise": Hire mercenaries against Goonswarm. I've seen the killboard link and quite frankly any decently equipped merc corp would be able to nip an aspiring Goon ganker in the bud. Sure it would be expensive, but if several victems pooled their resources and bargined collectivly, it wouldnt be all that bad compared to the increased costs and loss of peace of mind Goonswarm is currently causing. Dont expect the playerbase to defend or pity support you because you got suicide ganked alongside a few hundred others. Not much in EVE gets done through charity, anything being related to Chribba being a notable exception. However, I'll put it forward that my corp would be more than happy to be the, or one of the, units contracted for such an undertaking. Get organized, pool your resources, and contract out to those who specialize in what you need done. And on top of this don't assume for a second that the Goons are going to remain as strong as they are today. When the Coalition has finished circle jerking over BoB they'll just turn on each other. That will be especially true if the Goons continue to victimize random people not involved with alliance ops.

Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:52:00 - [21] Not only is it not wrong for Goonswarm to do this, it is one of the few things Goonswarm has actually done right! Bit of advice for the carebears: by clicking the "subscribe" button, you consent to PvP. There is no such thing as "safe space", only "I can kill you easily and take your stuff" and "I have to work a bit harder to kill you and take your stuff". Saying you were killed "for nothing" is just silly, there is no such thing as "for nothing" in EVE. Everything from "you have stuff I want" to "I like to see pretty explosions" to "it's tuesday and I'm eating a pizza" is a legitimate reason to kill you. As for your laughable idea of petitioning the losses, allow me to quote CCP's player guide (you know, that thing you should have read) on this issue: ... Ratings of 0.5 and above can be considered relatively safe ... Please note that no matter where you are, there is no absolute guarantee you will not be attacked. Concord hands out retribution, but cannot promise constant protection. So yeah, I feel so dirty saying this, but good hunting, Goonswarm!
James Duar Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:54:00 - [22] Maybe those exhumers should stop wearing such revealing clothing.
karttoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 05:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Not only is it not wrong for Goonswarm to do this, it is one of the few things Goonswarm has actually done right! Bit of advice for the carebears: by clicking the "subscribe" button, you consent to PvP. There is no such thing as "safe space", only "I can kill you easily and take your stuff" and "I have to work a bit harder to kill you and take your stuff". Saying you were killed "for nothing" is just silly, there is no such thing as "for nothing" in EVE. Everything from "you have stuff I want" to "I like to see pretty explosions" to "it's tuesday and I'm eating a pizza" is a legitimate reason to kill you. As for your laughable idea of petitioning the losses, allow me to quote CCP's player guide (you know, that thing you should have read) on this issue: ... Ratings of 0.5 and above can be considered relatively safe ... Please note that no matter where you are, there is no absolute guarantee you will not be attacked. Concord hands out retribution, but cannot promise constant protection. So yeah, I feel so dirty saying this, but good hunting, Goonswarm! sniff I love you too man!
PaddyPaddy Nihildarnik Gallente MASS Ministry Of Amarrian Secret Service	Posted - 2008.03.02 06:15:00 - [24] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Not only is it not wrong for Goonswarm to do this, it is one of the few things Goonswarm has actually done right! Bit of advice for the carebears: by clicking the "subscribe" button, you consent to PvP. There is no such thing as "safe space", only "I can kill you easily and take your stuff" and "I have to work a bit harder to kill you and take your stuff". Saying you were killed "for nothing" is just silly, there is no such thing as "for nothing" in EVE. Everything from "you have stuff I want" to "I like to see pretty explosions" to "it's tuesday and I'm eating a pizza" is a legitimate reason to kill you. As for your laughable idea of petitioning the losses, allow me to quote CCP's player guide (you know, that thing you should have read) on this issue: ... Ratings of 0.5 and above can be considered relatively safe ... Please note that no matter where you are, there is no absolute guarantee you will not be attacked. Concord hands out retribution, but cannot promise constant protection. So yeah, I feel so dirty saying this, but good hunting, Goonswarm! Exactly right. Quite whining and find an ingame solution. You have already had one person suggest merc protection. Despite what you may have heard or believed when you come onto these forums but ccp encourages a harsh environment. If it was all cotton candy you wouldnt have anyone to sell those minerals to cos noone would be loosing ships. Simply put, if you dont want to deal with the real loss and real gain of eve, there are plenty of mmo's out there that are soft and fluffy and let you "resurrect" your avatar with all your gear. Why you would be motivated beyond looking at different graphics is beyond me however. Congrats goons on another eve player **ed off @ you. Enjoy the lolz. Objective achieved. Peace WithinSo if the theory of relativity is true, shouldn't i arrive at my destination before i warped in the first place? Neon Ghost**You do, but this is compensated for by lag
Celeritas 5k Caldari Initrode United For 0rder	Posted - 2008.03.02 06:26:00 - [25] Threads like this are what make eve pretty much the best game ever. - Always be Happy, Never be satisfied.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.02 06:28:00 - [26] mining highsec in a hulk is like running level 4s in a carrier. also whine about tri ganking mission runners
Grimpak Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.03.02 06:30:00 - [27] Originally by: Relaed http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills Killboard Seems Goonswarm has decided to target and destroy every exhumer they can get their hands on. Over 140 Exhumers in one week so far, and counting. There is no war dec or anything, so what is going on CCP? Is it wrong for the Largest Alliance in the game to be able to use their overwhelming resources from 0.0. to build and suicide Battleships, just to harrass and ruin the game experience in empire space, for some many people, those that don't want to take part in 0.0 affairs? It is wrong. Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Seems CCP really needs to address this problem, punish the offending corp and or alliance for such blatant harassment, instead of locking it down and trying to hide the serious issue this is becoming. Would you pay to play a game where all the high level characters could just come in and destroy everything you have worked for, with and for no good reason, and your losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? Where do we go to petition all these losses in empire space that are uninsured, and should be considered exploitative, harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. I think each corp and alliance represented by the attackers, should have their security standings reduced, every member. What do you folks think? dude. repeat after me: hi-sec = safer safer safer now, after you hammer that on your head with a sledgehammer, keep in mind that GS does that, because they can. want to do something about it? fight back. --- Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.02 06:32:00 - [28] Quick! Somebody make a thread about this! Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton mining highsec in a hulk is like running level 4s in a carrier. No. People who say this learned everything they know about industry from the voices inside the bubble. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.02 06:32:00 - [29] stikcing 3 hulks in a belt with a hauler and a logistics would be quite a pain in the ass for them
UGWidowmaker Caldari Setenta Corp	Posted - 2008.03.02 06:54:00 - [30] exhumers got nothing to do in empire. respect to goon for this campaign, keep it going... OMFG I am the widowmaker stay tuned.

Stakhanov Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:03:00 - [31] Mine in lowsec , it's safer Originally by: CCP Mitnal Hi, my name's Mitnal and I'm addicted to locking threads
Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:05:00 - [32] I'm so jealous of MrBad right now. Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
Karanth Gallente Eve's Brothers of Destiny Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:13:00 - [33] First "people don't 'get' Goons" post. And I'll say this as a Hulk pilot. If you can't be bothered to find the reason the Swarm is using to slaughter you all, or try and find safer areas to mine, or fight back, or do anything that would actually be useful, instead of whining on the forums... You don't deserve to fly that ship. Just, just dock it, contract it to me, and do something else. Because you seem to fail at everything that is important to mining. "Current Earth-Destruction Status"
Mr QUE Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:15:00 - [34] Originally by: UGWidowmaker exhumers got nothing to do in empire. respect to goon for this campaign, keep it going... I see ICE prices going up :) got to love it nice work Goons lol
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:18:00 - [35] Originally by: Mr QUE Originally by: UGWidowmaker exhumers got nothing to do in empire. respect to goon for this campaign, keep it going... I see ICE prices going up :) got to love it nice work Goons lol Pfffft. not enough to dip into my reserves. FFS GOONS GET WITH TEH PROGRAM! Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Dimagus	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:23:00 - [36] While not politically correct, here is a chart explaining the risk in EVE: 0.0 = International Waters 0.1-0.4 = Middle East 0.5-1.0 = US High School Infer the comparisons for pirates and suicide gankers at your own discretion.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:24:00 - [37] Originally by: Dimagus While not politically correct, here is a chart explaining the risk in EVE: 0.0 = International Waters-and mexico 0.1-0.4 = Middle East 0.5-1.0 = US High School Infer the comparisons for pirates and suicide gankers at your own discretion. fixed
Marcus TheMartin Gallente Deadly Addiction Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:26:00 - [38] Originally by: MotherMoon Originally by: Dimagus While not politically correct, here is a chart explaining the risk in EVE: 0.0 = International Waters-and Sudan 0.1-0.4 = Middle East 0.5-1.0 = US High School Infer the comparisons for pirates and suicide gankers at your own discretion. fixed Double fixed
Vasile Ion	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:31:00 - [39] Edited by: Vasile Ion on 02/03/2008 07:32:03 OP, you are quite right in your claims. What Goonswarm is doing is quite against the rules. It is simply a result of broken game balance and people willing to take advantage of it. It's one thing for it to be profitable to suicide someone who carries arround very expensive cargo, and it's quite another thing for the loss of common transport and mining ships to be many time more expensive then the ships it takes to suicide into them with no possible counter. The rules say: "A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersÆ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. " "At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account." I see no mention of "eve is a harsh place and everything is allowed". Don't hold your breath for the GMs to do anything about it though.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:35:00 - [40] Originally by: Vasile Ion ..Sweet Carebear Tears.. Whilst I myself have no particular love or hate of teh Goonies I will say this: Its about fekin time empire had some risk. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."

Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:37:00 - [41] Originally by: Vasile Ion with no possible counter Wardec them if you're getting hit bad enough. They're already attacking you anyway so you have nothing to lose but your inability to strike first. Hell, those ships are probably either minimally tanked or not tanked at all since they're just going to get blowed up real good anyway. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:46:00 - [42] Edited by: Zeba on 02/03/2008 07:46:57 Originally by: Quelque Chose Hell, those ships are probably either minimally tanked or not tanked at all since they're just going to get blowed up real good anyway. hehe. Its the hulks that need to think about tanking. One of the killmails poasted had a hulk with a small booster I and em hardner I as its tank with the other two mids empty. Yes indeed they deserved it. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:48:00 - [43] Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 02/03/2008 07:46:57 Originally by: Quelque Chose Hell, those ships are probably either minimally tanked or not tanked at all since they're just going to get blowed up real good anyway. hehe. Its the hulks that need to think about tanking. One of the killmails poasted had a hulk with a small booster I and em hardner I as its tank with the other two mids empty. Yes indeed they deserved it. I'll have two of whatever it is you're drinking tonight. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:48:00 - [44] speak of which anyone watch the video cearbear hell where over 400 bilion wroth f carebear ships are taken out by 3 guys? yeah forget about goonswarm they are light weights. nudge nudge
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:50:00 - [45] we're all guilty of something Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
Haclya	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:52:00 - [46] Originally by: Relaed http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills Killboard Seems Goonswarm has decided to target and destroy every exhumer they can get their hands on. Over 140 Exhumers in one week so far, and counting. There is no war dec or anything, so what is going on CCP? Is it wrong for the Largest Alliance in the game to be able to use their overwhelming resources from 0.0. to build and suicide Battleships, just to harrass and ruin the game experience in empire space, for some many people, those that don't want to take part in 0.0 affairs? It is wrong. Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Seems CCP really needs to address this problem, punish the offending corp and or alliance for such blatant harassment, instead of locking it down and trying to hide the serious issue this is becoming. Would you pay to play a game where all the high level characters could just come in and destroy everything you have worked for, with and for no good reason, and your losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? Where do we go to petition all these losses in empire space that are uninsured, and should be considered exploitative, harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. I think each corp and alliance represented by the attackers, should have their security standings reduced, every member. What do you folks think? This is helping me :D Hope you lose more exhumers. You are in week corp and alliance hope you loose al your isk. By the way im a miner and prod of my work but you are no TRUE miner.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 07:54:00 - [47] Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Zeba Edited by: Zeba on 02/03/2008 07:46:57 Originally by: Quelque Chose Hell, those ships are probably either minimally tanked or not tanked at all since they're just going to get blowed up real good anyway. hehe. Its the hulks that need to think about tanking. One of the killmails poasted had a hulk with a small booster I and em hardner I as its tank with the other two mids empty. Yes indeed they deserved it. I'll have two of whatever it is you're drinking tonight. mmmm. a fine single malt whiskey localy made and bottled. But.. My point still stands. If even a fraction of the victims had invested in tanking skills then the goonies would be having a far worse time of it than they are now. Trust I did my own share of scanning barges to see if suisiding would be an effective way to drive up ice and mineral prices. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:04:00 - [48] Originally by: Zeba mmmm. a fine single malt whiskey localy made and bottled. But.. My point still stands. If even a fraction of the victims had invested in tanking skills then the goonies would be having a far worse time of it than they are now. Trust I did my own share of scanning barges to see if suisiding would be an effective way to drive up ice and mineral prices. Forget it. Ironically, they're a wealthy and decadent imperialist superpower; an extra BS per gank is no object to them. No, if you really want to put the hurt on a great Trollop Of Babylon 5 like that, you've got to draw them into a lengthy guerrilla war and bleed them white. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:06:00 - [49] Don't forget the insurance payout Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Syniztur Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:06:00 - [50] Originally by: Dimagus While not politically correct, here is a chart explaining the risk in EVE: 0.0 = International Waters 0.1-0.4 = Middle East 0.5-1.0 = US High School Infer the comparisons for pirates and suicide gankers at your own discretion. This... was... Brilliant!!! ----------------------------------------------- \| Do unto others, before they can do unto you! \| -----------------------------------------------

Earl Black	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:10:00 - [51] Privateer's used the rules to bring PvP too many corps who thought empire was "safe" Sadly they were deemed unacceptable to continue making empire fun. Goons, while losing ships to suicide ganks seem little better, but this is welcomed, what a turn around, if every kill was a "aaaaahjk" I can see some merit in this venture, but the stated reason is just to shift their stockpile of ships, market pvp I guess. Venom from some, who seem to deny that a large portion of the player base, lives and works in empire and has no wish to become just another meat shield. Some of this envy is probably driven by the many afk miners alt tab'ing while they run a mission or multiple mining op's.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:11:00 - [52] Edited by: Zeba on 02/03/2008 08:15:08 Originally by: Quelque Chose Originally by: Zeba mmmm. a fine single malt whiskey localy made and bottled. But.. My point still stands. If even a fraction of the victims had invested in tanking skills then the goonies would be having a far worse time of it than they are now. Trust I did my own share of scanning barges to see if suisiding would be an effective way to drive up ice and mineral prices. Forget it. Ironically, they're a wealthy and decadent imperialist superpower; an extra BS per gank is no object to them. No, if you really want to put the hurt on a great Trollop Of Babylon 5 like that, you've got to draw them into a lengthy guerrilla war and bleed them white. Won't happen as all the empire miners I've ever met are all soloish players. I tried for 2 years strait to organise a mutual defense system againt this inevitable outcome but eveyone was like: luz we are in empire wit concord protection lulz no need to have a plan lulz.. f1 f2 f3 mine away. YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO ME YOU ANAL RETENTIVE NUBS AND NOW YOUR IN HIDING AND MAKING ZERO ISK. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:16:00 - [53] Originally by: Zeba Won't happen as all the empire miners I've ever met are all soloish players. I tried for 2 years strait to organise a mutual defense system but eveyone was like: luz we are in empire wit concord protection lulz no need to have a plan lulz.. f1 f2 f3 mine away. Yeah, that's absolutely true, it'll never happen. Those guys don't seem to realize that if you just park the hulks for a while they'll still be there when the smoke clears. Plus, they'll no doubt expect everybody else to do the work while they continue to pile up filthy lucre. But it would be hilarious if it did happen, wouldn't it? If I wasn't an 8 week newb and totally alone I'd see what I could scratch up anyway just for the hell of it. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:28:00 - [54] Edited by: Berrik Radhok on 02/03/2008 08:28:52 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Mr QUE Originally by: UGWidowmaker exhumers got nothing to do in empire. respect to goon for this campaign, keep it going... I see ICE prices going up :) got to love it nice work Goons lol Pfffft. not enough to dip into my reserves. FFS GOONS GET WITH TEH PROGRAM! We're not blowing up the people mining the ice we use, silly. Also, people saying this is against the rules: the EULA disagrees with you.
Stern Maxwell Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:31:00 - [55] Seems kind of funny to look down the list and see all Exhumers, lol. ___________________________________________
karttoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:32:00 - [56] Originally by: Berrik Radhok We're not blowing up the people mining the ice we use, silly. I am. Deadtear's going to *****me.
Primnproper	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:39:00 - [57] No its not wrong, its eve exactly how its designed to be. As for where your supposed to be safe, i'm afraid thats no where in eve. And so I ask a counter question... Is it wrong that despite CCP being very clear that this is a game of non consensual pvp set in a brutal, dark and hostile world, that people still think that its not and that they should be safe just for being somewhere and that they don't have to do anything to protect themselves. And is it wrong that when their illusions about what kind of game this is are smashed that they come on the forums and whine about it in attempt to get it changed. Yes it is wrong....
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 08:47:00 - [58] Originally by: Berrik Radhok Edited by: Berrik Radhok on 02/03/2008 08:28:52 Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Mr QUE Originally by: UGWidowmaker exhumers got nothing to do in empire. respect to goon for this campaign, keep it going... I see ICE prices going up :) got to love it nice work Goons lol Pfffft. not enough to dip into my reserves. FFS GOONS GET WITH TEH PROGRAM! We're not blowing up the people mining the ice we use, silly. Ya think? I want you to blow up the people mining ice that everyone else uses. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Silam Ryder	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:14:00 - [59] Originally by: Zeba Alot of crap Hmmm you speak of mining in highsec yielding 50 - 100 mil a hour. How do you do that? Id like to know as ive been mining since forever and you clearly know a secret I dont know. You speak of sweet carebear tears, have you ever figured what would happend if noone buildt stuff in this game? No then go get a clue. You also mentioned some great tank the hulk can have? Well instead of flaming all carebears perhaps you can make a post here with that fitting and what lvl required and what lvl recomended for each skill? How old are you btw?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:20:00 - [60] Originally by: Silam Ryder Originally by: Zeba Alot of crap Hmmm you speak of mining in highsec yielding 50 - 100 mil a hour. How do you do that? Id like to know as ive been mining since forever and you clearly know a secret I dont know. You speak of sweet carebear tears, have you ever figured what would happend if noone buildt stuff in this game? No then go get a clue. You also mentioned some great tank the hulk can have? Well instead of flaming all carebears perhaps you can make a post here with that fitting and what lvl required and what lvl recomended for each skill? How old are you btw? To answer all your question in order: 4 max skill hulks easily rake in that amount of isk depending on how many shows I have recorded. I have my little piddys dipped into every aspect of the game mate. YOU are my competition for isk hence anything that keeps you docked makes me profit. As far as fittings if you can't figure it out yourself then maybe Eve is a bit too complicated then? And I'm older than dirt and younger than God. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."

Rawr Cristina Caldari Cult of Rawr	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:22:00 - [61] Originally by: Zeba YOU SHOULD HAVE LISTENED TO ME YOU ANAL RETENTIVE NUBS AND NOW YOUR IN HIDING AND MAKING ZERO ISK. quoted for reasons unknown Fight Piracy - Encourage PvP in Lowsec!
AmTek Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:37:00 - [62] If you think it is grief play, then petition it. Otherwise adapt. Grief Play and the Eve EULA: http://www.eve-online.com/faq/faq_01.asp 12.11 What is grief play? A grief player, or "griefer," is a player who devotes much of his time to making othersÆ lives miserable, in a large part deriving his enjoyment of the game from these activities. Grief tactics are the mechanics a griefer will utilize to antagonize other players. This should not be confused with standard conflict that might arise between two players. At our discretion, players who are found to be consistently maliciously interfering with the game experience for others may receive a warning, temporary suspension or permanent banning of his account. EVE OnlineÖ END USER LICENSE AGREEMENT 7. CONDUCT C. Compliance with Rules of Conduct You agree to observe and abide by the Rules of Conduct as may be amended by CCP from time to time. The current version of the Rules of Conduct may be viewed at http://www.eve-online.com/pnp/terms.asp, and are incorporated in the EULA by reference. EVE Online TERMS OF SERVICE 3 You may not organize nor be a member of any corporation or group within EVE Online that is based on or advocates any anti-ethnic, anti-***, anti-religious, racist, sexist or other hate-mongering philosophies 4 You may not use ôrole-playingö as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy.
Euriti Gallente Black Podding	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:47:00 - [63] Carebear tears, the fuel of life. :D Honestly, this is hilarious, keep going Goonswarm.
Lorieen	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:50:00 - [64] Maybe it time to go back to the ways it use to be done yrs ago and just mine in battleships. Won't help with ice mining but will with any other mining.
Industrial Jay	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:50:00 - [65] LoL this is funny. I would be willing to bet that a lot of the exhumers being sold in empire now are being sold by Goons.
Rod Blaine Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.02 09:54:00 - [66] I don't think this was intended. But neither were macro miners and noobcorp-veterans. So it's all good, you never know what purpose it serves. [center] Old blog
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:03:00 - [67] I can see the DCU II (and maybe even Local Hull Reinforced Bulkheads) becoming standard fitting on Exhumers for the next few weeks. . . Oh, and Jihadswarm, post your losses. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:06:00 - [68] Edited by: Dai Nau on 02/03/2008 10:06:24 no
Burnharder	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:09:00 - [69] Originally by: Jurgen Cartis Oh, and Jihadswarm, post your losses. Haha yes indeed.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:09:00 - [70] Originally by: Industrial Jay LoL this is funny. I would be willing to bet that a lot of the exhumers being sold in empire now are being sold by Goons. I wouldn't be surprised by that either. --- Join BH-DL Skills

Silam Ryder	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:20:00 - [71] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Silam Ryder Originally by: Zeba Alot of crap Hmmm you speak of mining in highsec yielding 50 - 100 mil a hour. How do you do that? Id like to know as ive been mining since forever and you clearly know a secret I dont know. You speak of sweet carebear tears, have you ever figured what would happend if noone buildt stuff in this game? No then go get a clue. You also mentioned some great tank the hulk can have? Well instead of flaming all carebears perhaps you can make a post here with that fitting and what lvl required and what lvl recomended for each skill? How old are you btw? To answer all your question in order: 4 max skill hulks easily rake in that amount of isk depending on how many shows I have recorded. I have my little piddys dipped into every aspect of the game mate. YOU are my competition for isk hence anything that keeps you docked makes me profit. As far as fittings if you can't figure it out yourself then maybe Eve is a bit too complicated then? And I'm older than dirt and younger than God. Hmmm funnily I have dipped something into every aspect of the game aswell. I dont wanna show you my epeen, but you would probs start sucking on it since youre a****.. I wanna see some calculations on youre maxed skilled hulks. Keep isk out of the picture. Make it m3. And its not really that hard to find fittings on theese forums, I just figured you had some magical fitting since you claim to be the ultimate carebear I like the way you avoided all the answers.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:23:00 - [72] Originally by: Silam Ryder inept attempt at getting a rise out of someone who knows better Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Bazman Caldari Shinra Shinra Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:23:00 - [73] Why don't people be enterprising instead of whining about the ganking? Theres now a demand for more Exhumers, get building! :P -----
Silam Ryder	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:27:00 - [74] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Silam Ryder inept attempt at getting a rise out of someone who knows better Ah anyways, soz you aint a****. But well how many m3 can you really pull on theese hulks? Be honest now. I can atm only pull 1670 m3 per laser. But then again I havent spendt isk on implants and stuff. And by that neglecting my tank.
Fanjita	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:31:00 - [75] Originally by: Relaed http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills Killboard Seems Goonswarm has decided to target and destroy every exhumer they can get their hands on. Over 140 Exhumers in one week so far, and counting. There is no war dec or anything, so what is going on CCP? Is it wrong for the Largest Alliance in the game to be able to use their overwhelming resources from 0.0. to build and suicide Battleships, just to harrass and ruin the game experience in empire space, for some many people, those that don't want to take part in 0.0 affairs? It is wrong. Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Seems CCP really needs to address this problem, punish the offending corp and or alliance for such blatant harassment, instead of locking it down and trying to hide the serious issue this is becoming. Would you pay to play a game where all the high level characters could just come in and destroy everything you have worked for, with and for no good reason, and your losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? Where do we go to petition all these losses in empire space that are uninsured, and should be considered exploitative, harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. I think each corp and alliance represented by the attackers, should have their security standings reduced, every member. What do you folks think? To answer your question yes i would im doing so now by playing eve.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:33:00 - [76] Originally by: Silam Ryder Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Silam Ryder inept attempt at getting a rise out of someone who knows better Ah anyways, soz you aint a**. But well how many m3 can you really pull on theese hulks? Be honest now. I can atm only pull 1670 m3 per laser. But then again I havent spendt isk on implants and stuff. And by that neglecting my tank. By max skill I really mean max skill. All have level 5 in the relevant skills with 5% hardwireings for yield and tank with the gang leader having max leadership for tanking,yield and a mindlink. Do the math and fire up quick fit and you will get to the numbers and setups fast enough. If I'm being vauge then I apologize for being a Darwinist. Originally by:** MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
akkria	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:36:00 - [77] "Is goonswarm wrong to target every Exhumer in empire for nothhing?" -no, but hopefully they start branching out and start suiciding everything. If they push hard enough people are going to start pushing back. then maybe their alliance will be destroyed and i wont have to read the word goonswarm so often.
Rickroller	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:43:00 - [78] If G00nSW4RM is wrong... I dun want to be R1GHT lol! New EVE fansite with recent wardec and industrial data: http://eve-fanatics.org
Sphynx Stormlord Gallente Anqara Tech	Posted - 2008.03.02 10:57:00 - [79] One might assume that they are partialy in it for profit. Ie maybe they have a big stockpile of minerals they want to sell, after the prices have increased due to reduced supply. Or they are making the very ships they are ganking, and wanted to increase demand. Those would both be very rational reasons for doing it. Alternativly they just find it fun.
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:01:00 - [80] Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord One might assume that they are partialy in it for profit. Ie maybe they have a big stockpile of minerals they want to sell, after the prices have increased due to reduced supply. Or they are making the very ships they are ganking, and wanted to increase demand. Those would both be very rational reasons for doing it. Alternativly they just find it fun. Or, they could just be doing it because it gives bored Goons something to shoot besides BoB or blues. And if said Goons cannot get to the front, you can be sure the leadership want them shooting something that is at least, not actively on their side. -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth

Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:01:00 - [81] 420 shoot blues every day
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:09:00 - [82] The main thread was closed for a reason. I will summarize the thread with one character: o
Kyoto Luyi MX3 Development Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:10:00 - [83] Originally by: Marcus TheMartin OLD NEWS This. Look Ma, I R poasting in anudder goons fred! -- The views or opinions I express are solely my own and do not reflect those of my Corporation or Alliance.. Oh, and I'm NOT allowed in CAOD either :)
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:12:00 - [84] fooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo twentyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express Frontier Trade League	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:23:00 - [85] Originally by: cal nereus Edited by: cal nereus on 02/03/2008 05:17:57 I understand and appreciate where you are coming from, Relaed. Before I go on, I would like to recommend that you and other Exhumer pilots in high-sec take steps to defend yourself in-game. Start defenses gangs, use intel, use clever counter-strategies, fly through lower-population systems, avoid hotspots for these attacks, etc. I sympathize with your plight and hope you can find an in-game solution for your difficulties. Show those Goons what a miner with teeth is really capable of. That said... I would like to point out that Goons aren't attacking Exhumers for nothing. It isn't really harassment either, since they're attacking indiscriminately. CCP fully endorses "suicide" attacks in high-sec, as long as Concord gets to pew-pew too. Goons are playing within the rules of the game, but you can fight back against them within the rules of the game too. Use the infinite tools you have at your disposal to counter their actions. You don't need an out-of-game power to save you. Most of your measures will not work. There is no way to stop anyone from suiciding you. By the sheer fact they are suiciding they already expect to lose their ship and since you can't fire first then guards are meaningless. The game needs to give in game tools to assist in such situations. Some Ideas: 1. Instead of just the ship you targetting them auto targetting you, all ships in their gang autotarget you. (Of course this won't beat a passive targeter) 2. Allow an escort type skill that if you are ganged with someone and are assigned as escort you can do things for them, such as absorbing damage, firing on someone that targets them without Concord destroying you etc. It is the lack of proper escort tools in game that causes these incidents. You could also lesson them if you removed concord payouts for ships destroyed while doing a criminal enterprise. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Andtha Splits	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:31:00 - [86] No.
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:36:00 - [87] man I haven't listened to the offspring since like the 4th grade
Krackles	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:40:00 - [88] Spotted in Balle system about 20 minutes before downtime, lol. Pay up guys, and perhaps they will leave ya alone. But then again, they are Goons after all. Celot > if you want to be in a hulk in empire in safety from allah's warriors you got to pay 50m/month Celot > or 1b for your corp
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:43:00 - [89] Originally by: Krackles Spotted in Balle system about 20 minutes before downtime, lol. Pay up guys, and perhaps they will leave ya alone. But then again, they are Goons after all. Celot > if you want to be in a hulk in empire in safety from allah's warriors you got to pay 50m/month Celot > or 1b for your corp that's me!!1 celot is best celot is best celot best
mentalmarsupial	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:48:00 - [90] Just to say nice work Goons, clever way of pushing up prices. Quit crying 'bears and join a real corp for mutual benifit instead of just filling you banks.

Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:51:00 - [91] by the way those offers of safety in exchange for isk are legitimate offers of extortion and will be enforced
Maor Raor	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:52:00 - [92] Originally by: Sphynx Stormlord One might assume that they are partialy in it for profit. Ie maybe they have a big stockpile of minerals they want to sell, after the prices have increased due to reduced supply. Or they are making the very ships they are ganking, and wanted to increase demand. Those would both be very rational reasons for doing it. Alternativly they just find it fun. Id put money on them doing it for 2 reasons. firstly a moral booster after failing to dislodge bob Seccondly to try and stem the flow of ice products to bob thus making PoS war less lame. Personaly i think CCP need to think about how goons have behaved towards ccp in the Past and ask themselves are Goons realy "just in it for the fun" or are goons realy trying to stop people from playing the game. I have no problem with suiside ganks in general other than the insurence issue. I do think that a blanket War on Carebears is Grief play and should be treeted as such by CCP.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:54:00 - [93] Originally by: Krackles Spotted in Balle system about 20 minutes before downtime, lol. Pay up guys, and perhaps they will leave ya alone. But then again, they are Goons after all. Celot > if you want to be in a hulk in empire in safety from allah's warriors you got to pay 50m/month Celot > or 1b for your corp Way to disincentive folks.....after all at that price it would be cheaper to hire mercs.... There is a common misconception, most people in Empire are not making a lot less than folks think. Many are casual players and a hulk or other exhumer might represent months of work for them. Now this isn't true for the isk farmers, but the average players is much poorer than they are portrayed. Everyone that afk mines is also not a farmer, a lot of folks do homework, read etc while mining because its a way to play and enjoy another activity. So just because they don't respond immediately doesn't mean they are a macroer. What's going to happen is Goons is going to push the button once to many times and just like with Privateers they'll find that CCP changes the rules on them, after all it is in CCPs interest to have paying customers.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:55:00 - [94] Oops my post above I mean are making a lot less than folks think :), I made an editing mistake :(
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:57:00 - [95] Originally by: El'Niaga Originally by: Krackles Spotted in Balle system about 20 minutes before downtime, lol. Pay up guys, and perhaps they will leave ya alone. But then again, they are Goons after all. Celot > if you want to be in a hulk in empire in safety from allah's warriors you got to pay 50m/month Celot > or 1b for your corp Way to disincentive folks.....after all at that price it would be cheaper to hire mercs.... There is a common misconception, most people in Empire are not making a lot less than folks think. Many are casual players and a hulk or other exhumer might represent months of work for them. Now this isn't true for the isk farmers, but the average players is much poorer than they are portrayed. Everyone that afk mines is also not a farmer, a lot of folks do homework, read etc while mining because its a way to play and enjoy another activity. So just because they don't respond immediately doesn't mean they are a macroer. What's going to happen is Goons is going to push the button once to many times and just like with Privateers they'll find that CCP changes the rules on them, after all it is in CCPs interest to have paying customers. don't care
Ransomizer	Posted - 2008.03.02 11:59:00 - [96] hi, there is something that i dont understand, plz can any1 clear that up for me... lets say u use an geddon to suicide that bears, taken the standart market price is around 55m + 20m for platin insurance, ull get back 65m after the show, well they might have highly researched bpo as they r a big ally with a huge backbone.. so that can prolly come out as a 0 loss.. when u fit just gunz and heatsinks :) but the think i dont get is the loss of security, killing some ppl should get u down pretty fast, then u need to grind it again and imo that is something not that easy.. lvl 4 missions dont give u a **** and ratting, not that fast either.. they might have jump clones in 00 and jumping systems to get the maximum out of it... but cant think that this is going as fast as they kill miners in highsec... what do i miss ???
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:00:00 - [97] we're hacking
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:00:00 - [98] Originally by: Ransomizer what do i miss ??? hi, you missed 55m + 20m - 65m = 10m not 0
Sean Dillon Caldari Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:01:00 - [99] I have suicided alot in the past, the goons are just imposters doing it on a grand scale.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:03:00 - [100] Originally by: Ransomizer hi, there is something that i dont understand, plz can any1 clear that up for me... lets say u use an geddon to suicide that bears, taken the standart market price is around 55m + 20m for platin insurance, ull get back 65m after the show, well they might have highly researched bpo as they r a big ally with a huge backbone.. so that can prolly come out as a 0 loss.. when u fit just gunz and heatsinks :) but the think i dont get is the loss of security, killing some ppl should get u down pretty fast, then u need to grind it again and imo that is something not that easy.. lvl 4 missions dont give u a **** and ratting, not that fast either.. they might have jump clones in 00 and jumping systems to get the maximum out of it... but cant think that this is going as fast as they kill miners in highsec... what do i miss ??? The fact they keep it up they won't be able to buy a ship that cheap.

Maor Raor	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:04:00 - [101] Originally by: Ransomizer hi, what do i miss ??? Sec loss means nothing to 0.0 players. Plus they can still Get loads of ganks before you have to worry about recycleing their alts or grinding rats. And it dont take that long to fix sec
Ransomizer	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:04:00 - [102] Originally by: Chirruper Originally by: Ransomizer what do i miss ??? hi, you missed 55m + 20m - 65m = 10m not 0 no, with standart market prices u would make -10m without equipment on each kill, but asuming that a highly researched bpo will cover that (and the loot from the hulks mostly around 2-15m each) will give u a financial +/- 0 at the end
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:04:00 - [103] Originally by: El'Niaga The fact they keep it up they won't be able to buy a ship that cheap. never post again
Ransomizer	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:08:00 - [104] well for me, last time i checked gaining sec status again was rly pita, and u need it to enter empire again to suicide xD btw does fast talk work again or still bugged ??
Kyoto Luyi MX3 Development Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:15:00 - [105] Originally by: Maor Raor ... they can still Get loads of ganks before you have to worry about recycleing their alts ... Bannable offense... -- The views or opinions I express are solely my own and do not reflect those of my Corporation or Alliance.. Oh, and I'm NOT allowed in CAOD either :)
Marcus Xavier Minmatar Xavier Institute for Higher Learning	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:42:00 - [106] I certainly feel it's bad PR for Goons to attack exhumers indiscriminately and it will hurt them in the long run. However, it is the cost of doing business for you. The solution is simple: set Goon standings to "horrible", change the "horrible" standing settings to a flashing color (orange or yellow), and take appropriate actions when they enter the system. ---------------- Mutatis Mutandis
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:52:00 - [107] Edited by: Ulstan on 02/03/2008 12:53:10 No no, I'm sure CCP definitely envisioned hi sec miners in exhumers being killed on a regular basis by a single battlecruiser. The only question is, why does it even take one? Shouldn't exhumers just randomly explode every now and then?
Ransomizer	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:56:00 - [108] i think its completely legal !! as they dont grief a certain player or a certain group of players! hell flying a hulk doesent make u part of a this group, my alt miner flying hulks too but doesent feel offended by any means from this as he knows how to protect himself. further theire actions r random clearance, so i dont see any reason this should be forbidden. and for the reputation... i think atleast for me, goons got a serious boost on theire reputation :) so go on, and plz tell me ur security status gain secret ^^ hahah
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:58:00 - [109] Originally by: Marcus Xavier I certainly feel it's bad PR for Goons to attack exhumers indiscriminately and it will hurt them in the long run. However, it is the cost of doing business for you. The solution is simple: set Goon standings to "horrible", change the "horrible" standing settings to a flashing color (orange or yellow), and take appropriate actions when they enter the system. Goons want good PR? Why wasn't I notified? Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.02 12:58:00 - [110] The goons actions against hulks can be seen as a a bid to control vital resources and supply routes by acts of state (goonswarn is a state) sponsered terrorism underwritten by its victims, and it looks like they have read the neo-con manual on deception and propaganda as well as the corporate imperialism one.

Omega Man The Geddy Foundation	Posted - 2008.03.02 13:01:00 - [111] And to think the sheep in empire been looking forward to the day the evil BOB falls. Welcome to a taste of the new world order. - - Happy user of CAOD troll cleaner http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=584345
Duncan Bannatyne Machiavellian Intuition	Posted - 2008.03.02 13:19:00 - [112] Originally by: Omega Man And to think the sheep in empire been looking forward to the day the evil BOB falls. Welcome to a taste of the new world order. ^^ Covers the whole situation tbfh. Duncan Bannatyne The Dragons Are Taking Over...
Dravius Luxor	Posted - 2008.03.02 13:32:00 - [113] Originally by: Relaed http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills Killboard Seems Goonswarm has decided to target and destroy every exhumer they can get their hands on. Over 140 Exhumers in one week so far, and counting. There is no war dec or anything, so what is going on CCP? Is it wrong for the Largest Alliance in the game to be able to use their overwhelming resources from 0.0. to build and suicide Battleships, just to harrass and ruin the game experience in empire space, for some many people, those that don't want to take part in 0.0 affairs? It is wrong. Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Seems CCP really needs to address this problem, punish the offending corp and or alliance for such blatant harassment, instead of locking it down and trying to hide the serious issue this is becoming. Would you pay to play a game where all the high level characters could just come in and destroy everything you have worked for, with and for no good reason, and your losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? Where do we go to petition all these losses in empire space that are uninsured, and should be considered exploitative, harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. I think each corp and alliance represented by the attackers, should have their security standings reduced, every member. What do you folks think? 1. No it is not wrong, it is in fact perfectly feasible. 2. Yes, I do pay to play a game where I can be killed by "high level" characters, for no good reason except that they feel like killing me. 3. To petition these cases, please contact Blizzard customer service. 4. Please don't post such nonsense with your Minmatar character, after all we are terrorists/freedom fighters, and thus can understand the validity of suicide tactics in a game where one can literally come back to life.
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.02 13:37:00 - [114] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Goons want good PR? Why wasn't I notified? Truth. Goon. Swarm. They are the Goblin Hordes of EVE; they play antogists, lots of em. There is a reason every other game throws them in as NPCs. EVE gives us ones with actual human intelligence, however high or low you think it is. They love doin it, I love em for it and I'm sure I'm not alone here
Niccolado Starwalker Shadow Templars	Posted - 2008.03.02 13:41:00 - [115] WOW! Call the press! Goonswarm are doing something right for a change! Good work! Really! On your carnage I hope you prioritize those who can be possible macros IF you HAVE TO CHOOSE between two kinds of Exhumers? Originally by: CCP Whisper I got your ambulation right here... <walks off to get more wine>
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.02 13:57:00 - [116] How many ehps can you get on a tanked up hulk? That's my only real concern with highsec suicide ganking - barges are pretty fragile, even when tanked (haulers are too, but transports/warp to zero makes them pretty safe). -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates	Posted - 2008.03.02 13:59:00 - [117] Originally by: Chirruper Originally by: Ransomizer what do i miss ??? hi, you missed 55m + 20m - 65m = 10m not 0 3 strip miner IIs, and 2 mining laser upgrades ~= 15m -- Crane needs more grid 249km locking?
Kyoto Luyi MX3 Development Zzz	Posted - 2008.03.02 14:23:00 - [118] Edited by: Kyoto Luyi on 02/03/2008 14:24:59 Originally by: James Lyrus How many ehps can you get on a tanked up hulk? That's my only real concern with highsec suicide ganking - barges are pretty fragile, even when tanked (haulers are too, but transports/warp to zero makes them pretty safe). I get 19,744 EHP on my hulk (Edit: forgot to change from "no skills" on EFT ) -- The views or opinions I express are solely my own and do not reflect those of my Corporation or Alliance.. Oh, and I'm NOT allowed in CAOD either :)
Ungdall Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 15:11:00 - [119] Originally by: Marcus Xavier I certainly feel it's bad PR for Goons to attack exhumers indiscriminately and it will hurt them in the long run. However, it is the cost of doing business for you. The solution is simple: set Goon standings to "horrible", change the "horrible" standing settings to a flashing color (orange or yellow), and take appropriate actions when they enter the system. 1) aaaaahahahaha 2) We prefer minmatar towers, wonder what kinda ice they use, I bet wherever that ice is, it's a lot safer from goons...
Scout 99	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:30:00 - [120] Originally by: Ulstan Edited by: Ulstan on 02/03/2008 12:53:10 No no, I'm sure CCP definitely envisioned hi sec miners in exhumers being killed on a regular basis by a single battlecruiser. The only question is, why does it even take one? Shouldn't exhumers just randomly explode every now and then? Haha I find the fact that people try to make parallels to the "real world" is hilarious... In the real world, the police would declare your "organisation" for criminal and hunt you down. No country accepts economic criminality, its in fact one of the offenses that are punished the hardest because it hits (potentially undermining) the entire society. So yeah, drawing a parallel is lulz Its quite clear that the game should punish people suicide ganking like this. Dont tell me that CCP envisioned having people do this when they implemented concorde. Have them get no insurance (i dont think that you would get any insurance if you break the law "in the real world" (lulz ) or simply be flagged by the empire they did their transgression in for a day or more, meaning a quick death if they enter 0.5 and above. There are many SIMPLE solutions that CCP could introduce to help this, but as long as theres so many 0.0 kids that have been picked on since they began in school and feels they need to pick on someone smaller than themselves... im not holding my breath for any improvements. But the matter of the fact is NO empire would accept a large entity like goonswarm come in and destroy the economics like this (in a RP perspective) - but they (CCP) arent doing anything about it. Sound right? Not really...

Madelchai Gallente Stimulus The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:36:00 - [121] Nothing wrong with it far as I see. ------ Revolution. The only solution.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:36:00 - [122] In the real world, Goonswarm would be a megacorporation with orbital space stations, a security division that rivals the largest, and most technological armies. And, South America creeping all the way up into the US would be owned and operated by Goonswarm, and called the United Federation of Goons, where we wage our war on the rest of the world. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:38:00 - [123] Originally by: Dai Nau by the way those offers of safety in exchange for isk are legitimate offers of extortion and will be enforced Smart way to nullify griefing petitions. Nice. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Scout 99	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:39:00 - [124] Originally by: An Anarchyyt In the real world, Goonswarm would be a megacorporation with orbital space stations, a security division that rivals the largest, and most technological armies. And, South America creeping all the way up into the US would be owned and operated by Goonswarm, and called the United Federation of Goons, where we wage our war on the rest of the world. And sadly, you would still fail just as badly as you do in this game.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:42:00 - [125] It's true. I'm busy being camped in a station in Syndicate right now. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Karash Amerius Evolution Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:55:00 - [126] They are doing it just to try and force CCP to change their game to more carebear-ish mode (ie, no insurance for concord deaths). When your stated goal is the ruin the game, this seems to be an effective way of accomplishing that. CCP will change the insurance rules soon (im guessing) to no isk for concord deaths, and the game will be a much crappier game for it. "Fighting Broke" - An Ex-Merc Blog
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.02 16:57:00 - [127] Originally by: An Anarchyyt In the real world, Goonswarm would be a megacorporation with orbital space stations, a security division that rivals the largest, and most technological armies. And, South America creeping all the way up into the US would be owned and operated by Goonswarm, and called the United Federation of Goons, where we wage our war on the rest of the world. your confused GoonSwarm are the USofA who crept down and controlled South America, your vassals will eventually revolt.
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.02 17:03:00 - [128] Originally by: Karash Amerius They are doing it just to try and force CCP to change their game to more carebear-ish mode (ie, no insurance for concord deaths). When your stated goal is the ruin the game, this seems to be an effective way of accomplishing that. CCP will change the insurance rules soon (im guessing) to no isk for concord deaths, and the game will be a much crappier game for it. Alliance space has no Concord so why all the 0.0 dwelling grizzlybears moaning about the suggestion that Insurance should not be paid for willfull acts of terrorism, its intentional loss of a ship, its the intentional part that voids the insurance.
Sekhmet Orion Mandatory Suicide Incorporated	Posted - 2008.03.02 17:03:00 - [129] Edited by: Sekhmet Orion on 02/03/2008 17:03:07 Originally by: Karash Amerius When your stated goal is the ruin the game, this seems to be an effective way of accomplishing that. CCP will change the insurance rules soon (im guessing) to no isk for concord deaths, and the game will be a much crappier game for it. Isn't there enough threads in CAOD already where you and Goons can trade insults.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 17:05:00 - [130] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo your confused GoonSwarm are the USofA who crept down and controlled South America, your vassals will eventually revolt. No, I don't own a confused. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person

Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.02 17:11:00 - [131] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Brainless Bimbo your confused GoonSwarm are the USofA who crept down and controlled South America, your vassals will eventually revolt. No, I don't own a confused. As i said earlier: Originally by: Brainless Bimbo So it looks like they have read the neo-con manual on deception and propaganda as well as the corporate imperialism one.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.02 17:55:00 - [132] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo Originally by: Karash Amerius They are doing it just to try and force CCP to change their game to more carebear-ish mode (ie, no insurance for concord deaths). When your stated goal is the ruin the game, this seems to be an effective way of accomplishing that. CCP will change the insurance rules soon (im guessing) to no isk for concord deaths, and the game will be a much crappier game for it. Alliance space has no Concord so why all the 0.0 dwelling grizzlybears moaning about the suggestion that Insurance should not be paid for willfull acts of terrorism, its intentional loss of a ship, its the intentional part that voids the insurance. Like self-destructing...? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Tortun Nahme Minmatar Heimatar Services Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.02 17:58:00 - [133] rule of thumb, everything goonswarm does is wrong, but it's a waste of breath to whine about it Originally by: Cecil Montague They should change that warning on entering low sec to: "Go read Crime and Punishment for a few days then come back."
Frisky Minx Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.02 18:04:00 - [134] Everyone rises to their level of incompetence...
Astiria X	Posted - 2008.03.02 18:07:00 - [135] There are a few Simple defense Tactics to use against any type of Suicide Ganking from the goonies. First Off if you haven't already done so...set there corporation/alliance to -10 standings both personal and corporate. This way you can readily and easily Identify them when they are in a system you are inhabiting. Now this is primarily for corps...if mining individually I hope you have friends because it will make life easier. 1) Post a watch: Have some corp mates sit on the opposite sides of the jump gates leading into the system you are mining. When a goonie comes into the system...then you have more then enough time to react and get out if the are deemed a threat. If your flying solo hire a noob or someone to do this for ya. Giving a Noob 1M ISK/hr to stand watch might be boring...but its easier then running lvl 1 mishes or mining in a rookie ship with a lot better payout. 2) Always be aligned for warp...exhumers move slowly so any advantage you will get to already be aligned will help you out tremendously 3) Make sure you Tank your ship. Forgo the mining upgrades for something else such as Armor and shield Tanking, If you can afford it (which most miners with Hulks can) Buy another Hulk and rig it for a tank. Later after this has all died down you can always sell it again for minimal losses 4) Get Concord already where your mining: Create a few noob characters and warp them into the belt where you are mining...then just have one attack another...the agression will pull Concord to that location to blow up the agressor ship. Well now Concord is sitting in your backyard while your mining. SO there response time to threats will be 0. Im not sure how long they will actually sit there...but I am pretty sure its like a few hours. Complaining about what Goonswarm is doing will get you nowhere. I agree with the fact that any ship destroyed by Concord should forfeit any insurance claim...but other then that they are taking advantage of game mechanics to suit their own purposes. Main thing is this. You are confronted with a challenge, just adapt to the situation. It just takes less whining and more planning. Oh and on another note...if your still skeered....COvetors are cheap and they can be insured
Robert0288 Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.02 18:09:00 - [136] Goons : 140 Miners: 0 looks like a win to me, and all you people you complain its against the spirit of the game, Less exhumers = less mins = higher prices. Game function.
Sale gueule	Posted - 2008.03.02 18:27:00 - [137] Originally by: Robert0288 Goons : 140 Miners: 0 looks like a win to me, and all you people you complain its against the spirit of the game, Less exhumers = less mins = higher prices. Game function. Goons : 140 Miners : 0 Gallente ship manufacturers : 140 keep that in mind !! That s a good thing for me =)
Robert0288 Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.02 18:34:00 - [138] Support goons, support the gallente ship industry?
Sale gueule	Posted - 2008.03.02 18:37:00 - [139] Definetly go goons GO !!!
MenanceWhite Amarr Fruit Fellatio	Posted - 2008.03.02 18:39:00 - [140] Originally by: Sale gueule Originally by: Robert0288 Goons : 140 Miners: 0 looks like a win to me, and all you people you complain its against the spirit of the game, Less exhumers = less mins = higher prices. Game function. Goons : 140 Miners : 0 Gallente ship manufacturers : 140 keep that in mind !! That s a good thing for me =) Goons : 140 Miners : 0 Goon ship manufacturers : 140 Hey do you need a new ship? What? no I already have a ship WELL NOW YOU DONT --- Originally by: Torfi There's alot. That can be done. With.. corpses Originally by: Oveur

Anglo Minmatar Astral Mexicans	Posted - 2008.03.02 19:10:00 - [141] Originally by: Karash Amerius They are doing it just to try and force CCP to change their game to more carebear-ish mode (ie, no insurance for concord deaths). When your stated goal is the ruin the game, this seems to be an effective way of accomplishing that. CCP will change the insurance rules soon (im guessing) to no isk for concord deaths, and the game will be a much crappier game for it. only bob think that would ruin the game, then again arent all of u lads demoted into suicide gangs.. as in you die all the time ????
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.02 19:31:00 - [142] In response to the PR argument, I disagree. This is probably one of the only events that has improved Goonswarm's PR with the unrelated masses: which of course is not an objective of their's. They could care less about PR. Exhumer pilots... there's a very good reason why only a small minority of you are getting attacked by Goons. The majority of Exhumer pilots have avoided hot-spots and populated areas. In fact, when I was an empire miner () I made it a policy to mine in low-population systems. I'm surprised there are miners that aren't doing the same. If you can't be bothered to avoid high-population systems, then try to defend yourself in combat instead. You CAN do it. Or if you lack confidence in your ability to defend yourself, and still can't be bothered to avoid high-population systems, then try a group intel channel. You aren't the only one who wants to avoid getting ganked in high-sec. If you create and use an intel channel, maybe you can survive. Maybe. But if working with others is too difficult, then I suppose the best you can settle for is revenge. Use those deep pockets of yours and hire mercenaries to slap some Goons on the wrist. You miners... you have a lot of in-game options to defend yourself. Don't expect big Mommy-CCP to save you. Save yourselves. You CAN do it. You have the power. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.02 19:32:00 - [143] Originally by: cal nereus Exhumer pilots... there's a very good reason why only a small minority of you are getting attacked by Goons. The majority of Exhumer pilots have avoided hot-spots and populated areas. I have learned a very important lesson from MMOs: Sheep will be sheep even if they are fish in a barrel.
Mysteriax Eve University	Posted - 2008.03.02 19:45:00 - [144] Edited by: Mysteriax on 02/03/2008 19:46:43 Originally by: Robert0288 Goons : 140 Miners: 0 looks like a win to me, and all you people you complain its against the spirit of the game, Less exhumers = less mins = higher prices. Game function. Huh why Miners 0? I'm sure we shot down 3 of there gank ships and I havent seen any losses in our corp so far yet.
ZerKar Caldari Zen'Tar	Posted - 2008.03.02 20:12:00 - [145] Personally I would like to see this Goonswarm crapfest result in a freeze on mining and industrail work in all of Empire. Just everyone cease what you are doing for awhile. After all, they are making it too expensive to be worth your time anyway right? Let that Freeze last a fair while and see what it does to the economy. Watch the newbs drop like flies as the pricess of things slowly climb. Watch the isk sellers get super rich selling now beautifully "limited" isk for very high pricesses to all those folks who need to keep buying all those expensive modules and ships. It would be great fun to watch some large portion of EvE just shut right down. +++++++++++++++ For the LAST time... Keep your UGLY Typhoon off my SEXY Hurricane
Burnharder	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:14:00 - [146] Originally by: MenanceWhite Goons : 140 Miners : 0 Gallente ship manufacturers : 140 Goons don't do math. If these are all suicide attacks, then -140.
Jhyme Amarr Igneus Auctorita	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:15:00 - [147] It's probably not for nothing-- a lot of macro exhumers with expanded cargoholds and cargo rigs have died. Ruining the game for players using bots really does deserve a carnal heavenly reward. Also goons have been known to shoot blues in 0.0 if they turn out to be $$ selling isk farmers. Furthermore,
Glassback Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:28:00 - [148] The fact that this can happen is the reason I play this game every day. G. LinkedIn
Wensbane Amarr Space Voyagers	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:31:00 - [149] Originally by: Glassback The fact that this can happen is the reason I play this game every day. Same here, actually.
Channa ErOs Rebuck Holdings	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:32:00 - [150] Originally by: Roger Douglas Edited by: Roger Douglas on 02/03/2008 09:12:57 Ya know, all you empire miners might actually be safer out in 0.0.... Recruiting forums are ---->>> that way. Lots of corps can use a larger industrial wing. Oh, and Hello Kitty Online Island Adventure is: <<<-------- That way. And as a shipbuilder and inventor I'm cheering goons all the way to the bank Having tried the PvP in Hello Kitty I have to be perfectly honest its far more brutal than the PvP in EvE. In EVE you know its all about a bunch of leet 13 years olds who take their pleasure by rogering you with their immature big guns... However in Hello Kitty its girls who do you over and they hurt far more. And TBH the next idiot who says that CCP has no interest in a non-PvP game try and tell me why so many aspects of EvE have nothing to do with PvP? Counter Strike is PvP, EvE isn't 100% PvP... ((Missions, Market, Trading, etc)) Channa ErOs - CEO

Draeca Combat-Evolved	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:33:00 - [151] It's not wrong if it's fun.
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:35:00 - [152] Originally by: Channa ErOs And TBH the next idiot who says that CCP has no interest in a non-PvP game try and tell me why so many aspects of EvE have nothing to do with PvP? Counter Strike is PvP, EvE isn't 100% PvP... ((Missions, Market, Trading, etc)) Trading and Market are not PvE, they are "nonviolent" PvP. Who do you think you're undercutting?
Wayson Minmatar Trans Nebula Inc. The Threshold	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:46:00 - [153] Right, wrong, it doesn't matter. The point is they're doing it. ___ Victory smiles upon those who anticipate the changes in the character of war, not upon those who wait to adapt themselves after they occur. ~Guilio Douhet
000Hunter000 Gallente Missiles 'R' Us	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:52:00 - [154] As of yet, there arn't many complaints from miners beeing suicided by Goonies, but u can bet ur ass that ccp will do something about it if the whinefests go out of hand (which might happen if they take it too far) _______________________________________________________ CCP, let us pay the online shop with Direct Debit!!!
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.02 21:53:00 - [155] Originally by: ZerKar Personally I would like to see this Goonswarm crapfest result in a freeze on mining and industrail work in all of Empire. Just everyone cease what you are doing for awhile. After all, they are making it too expensive to be worth your time anyway right? Let that Freeze last a fair while and see what it does to the economy. Watch the newbs drop like flies as the pricess of things slowly climb. Watch the isk sellers get super rich selling now beautifully "limited" isk for very high pricesses to all those folks who need to keep buying all those expensive modules and ships. It would be great fun to watch some large portion of EvE just shut right down. Good idea. Dectuple my mining income - THAT will make me hate goons SO MUCH. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Valkazm Amarr Knights of Tiberius Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.02 22:06:00 - [156] Well the jihad seems to be succesful when the infidels are scared ! ....................................... Signature Breaking Eve news
a panda	Posted - 2008.03.02 22:10:00 - [157] Quote: How many ehps can you get on a tanked up hulk? Just over 27,000 ehp ( thats without mining upgrades )
Lougra Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.02 22:16:00 - [158] Originally by: Silam Ryder Originally by: Zeba Alot of crap Hmmm you speak of mining in highsec yielding 50 - 100 mil a hour. How do you do that? Id like to know as ive been mining since forever and you clearly know a secret I dont know. You speak of sweet carebear tears, have you ever figured what would happend if noone buildt stuff in this game? No then go get a clue. You also mentioned some great tank the hulk can have? Well instead of flaming all carebears perhaps you can make a post here with that fitting and what lvl required and what lvl recomended for each skill? How old are you btw? You forgot to tell for the needed ammount for that tanking ability. Carebear is the surname that others gives you, if you enjoy to play eve, in other way than the rest want YOU to play it.
Dai Nau Mothership Connection Inc. GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.02 22:24:00 - [159] 420
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:07:00 - [160] Confirming I have 4 ships that I sold on GF killboard. Keep it up.

Kong iverz Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:08:00 - [161] Down with the sickness AHHH AHHH BOOOM BOOOM
hundurinn Wreckless Abandon Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:18:00 - [162] I'm gona watch minerals prices closely. May be only a drop in the ocean but it would be interesting if these kills affect the normal fluxuation of ice and mineral prices.
Jmanis Catharg Caldari Stickler inc	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:27:00 - [163] I always love seeing new stuff like this hitting the game. It keeps it interesting :)
Alerdo	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:32:00 - [164] A fair solution to this problem would be to stop paying insurance for ships destroyed by Concord. That would not stop all high sec ganking but it would surely make the attackers choose their pray more carefuly.
Corstaad	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:36:00 - [165] This just me but I've generaly noticed the PvE crowd is actually the younger bunch. Most of the players from other heavy PvP games have played the PvE stuff into the ground and want no part of it anymore. In fact my old corp from another game was all Mud people . Its not 13 year olds or 36 year old hermits. Its people that been there done that so like anything else sometimes it you might want to listen to them rather then label them.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.02 23:39:00 - [166] Goonswarm is doing a good job. All the Elite Mining Barges shouldn't be stripping high-sec belts! ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:03:00 - [167] You know, I've listened to the other side here, and I want to take back my previous post. Goonswarm's griefing tactics are completely unfair, and have no place in EVE. Goonswarm is entirely wrong, and should be forced to either change their tactics or suffer permanent bans. Limiting the kills to Hulks is completely unfair to all the non-Hulk carebears that need to die. Goonswarm, start killing more people or I will petition you!
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:05:00 - [168] Originally by: Merin Ryskin You know, I've listened to the other side here, and I want to take back my previous post. Goonswarm's griefing tactics are completely unfair, and have no place in EVE. Goonswarm is entirely wrong, and should be forced to either change their tactics or suffer permanent bans. Limiting the kills to Hulks is completely unfair to all the non-Hulk carebears that need to die. Goonswarm, start killing more people or I will petition you! Come to think of it, you're right, their selectiveness is so unfair. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Bart ForHire	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:29:00 - [169] Edited by: Bart ForHire on 03/03/2008 00:30:42 Edited by: Bart ForHire on 03/03/2008 00:30:11 I as so very tired of all the pirates in the game Saying ôFight or Leaveö. I think all carebears should all cancel their accounts in March, or April of 2008 to protest. CCP for 5 years, almost always, takes the pirates side in most things. CCP needs to know that there are enough of us that they need to listen. Put ôI am a carebearö in the reason for leaving. If the pirates want us gone, then we should leave, and let CCP find if they can run the game without all of us. Enough is enough. Time for the Carebears to Roar.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:35:00 - [170] Originally by: Bart ForHire I as so very tired of all the pirates in the game Saying ôFight or Leaveö. I think all carebears should all cancel their accounts in March, or April of 2008 to protest. CCP for 5 years, almost always, takes the pirates side in most things. CCP needs to know that there are enough of us that they need to listen. Put ôI am a carebearö in the reason for leaving. If the pirates want us gone, then we should leave, and let CCP find if they can run the game without all of us. Enough is enough. Time for the Carebears to Roar. Goodbye. Can I have your stuff? I don't have an industrial alt at the moment, but with all my competition leaving, now would be a good time to start one. And if I get all your stuff, I won't even have to work at it to go straight into profitable business.

Bart ForHire	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:42:00 - [171] Edited by: Bart ForHire on 03/03/2008 00:44:21
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 00:45:00 - [172] I like all the whines about how CCP should do something. The thing that makes Eve great is you don't need CCP to do something. There are so many things that you can do on your own to prevent this. Your safety it not CCPs job, it is your own. If it is really that enraging, fight back. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:00:00 - [173] Then I'm on the right track. Now I just need to beat your Libya and Iran. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Dynast	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:06:00 - [174] I doubt CCP is frothing at the bit to change anything just yet; this is a self-correcting problem. Anyone who has actually dropped their security status into the deep negatives knows the score -- it takes for *&#$ing ever to raise it. "Just a few weeks" is a few weeks in a video game. That's practically forever. And if you decide to do some more suicide ganking, you're back to square one. End result, for every day of serious hulk-ganking, you need to spend at leak 7-10 days of ratting in 0.0, which means that while a group of people can make a huge splash at the start.. in the long run, they can only do so much damage over the months, and the whole thing will blow over. Now.. if this ballooned into a Privateer sized orgy of miner-killing, then maybe something might change. But I doubt it. If anything changed, it'd be CCP devoting a few more GM man-hours to examining logs to swat anyone using throwaway alts.
Bart ForHire	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:08:00 - [175] Edited by: Bart ForHire on 03/03/2008 01:09:26 Originally by: An Anarchyyt I am not saying "fight or leave". I could care less if you leave or not. I am saying, your safety is in your hands, and you have no one to blame but yourself for the loss of your ship. Yes, fighting back is one option. However, there are many solutions that don't involve fighting, you can just take some precautions. Move to a less populous area, set us to -10 so you can easily see us coming into local. Don't go AFK while mining. Stay aligned. Fit a better tank. Etc etc. You made your Point, You Don't Care about other player, why should other players care what you want to make them do. But maybe we should instead stand and make CCP ban You. But that would make us like you, and EVE would be a Bad place to Play.
Komen Gallente Trinity Nova	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:09:00 - [176] CCP have stated that knowingly attacking a neutral target within high security with enough force to destroy the target before concord shows up, is legitimate gameplay and 'within the bounds' of the intended functioning of the rules. Since your question is posited on whether this is within bounds, then no, there is nothing wrong with Goons using their massive resources to suicide-gank exhumers. If you ask this out of personal stake, I'd suggest you dock up for a while until Goons find some other way to amuse themselves (assuming this didn't come to your attention via being ganked, in which case, my condolences on the loss). Hope this helps. Trinity Nova Mercenary Services Web Site - Nominated for the 2008 E-ON Magazine Awards
Lyria Skydancer Amarr Home 0f Bored Occultists	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:11:00 - [177] Originally by: Relaed Is it wrong for the Largest Alliance in the game to be able to use their overwhelming resources from 0.0. to build and suicide Battleships, just to harrass and ruin the game experience in empire space, for some many people, those that don't want to take part in 0.0 affairs? It is wrong. Haha. Game experience is sitting afk mining? I think they are doing a great job cleaning up the lame miners. Maybe miners should be forced to watch their screen while making money. Keep it up goons. -------------------------------------- [Video]Skirmish Warfare
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:12:00 - [178] Originally by: Bart ForHire You made your Point, You Don't Care about other player, why should other players care what you want to make them do. But maybe we should instead stand and make CCP ban You. But that would make us like you, and EVE would be a Bad place to Play. I don't really think you understand. We're not doing anything against the rules. And no one is forcing you to do anything. If you don't want to do anything about it, that is fine too. But every action has its consequence. This is Eve, where non-consensual PvP has been a cornerstone since launch day. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Bart ForHire	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:23:00 - [179] Edited by: Bart ForHire on 03/03/2008 01:24:26 Originally by: An Anarchyyt I don't really think you understand. We're not doing anything against the rules. And no one is forcing you to do anything. If you don't want to do anything about it, that is fine too. But every action has its consequence. This is Eve, where non-consensual PvP has been a cornerstone since launch day. Yes your Are trying to Force players to Stop Miningin highsec or Fight. A thugs alway says that i didn't break any laws. But they are Still Thugs, the kind that steal for the old, because the care, and make easy prey. You have almost unlimited ISK from Lowsec mining and Pirating. No on else that has lived in Highsec can match you Spending, so Yes you will win every time. And Drive More players, that are not of our mind set, from the game. at least for a while.
Fofalus III ELEMENTS	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:29:00 - [180] Originally by: Bart ForHire Yes your Are trying to Force players to Stop Miningin highsec or Fight. A thugs alway says that i didn't break any laws. But they are Still Thugs, the kind that steal for the old, because the care, and make easy prey. You have almost unlimited ISK from Lowsec mining and Pirating. No on else that has lived in Highsec can match you Spending, so Yes you will win every time. And Drive More players, that are not of our mind set, from the game. at least for a while. Failure of a comparison. Thugs break the law by stealing. Goons break no rule. Quit QQing its not gonna change. Die or adapt and I hope you die.

An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:29:00 - [181] Many of us do not have unlimited ISK. But please, tell us what rules we have broken. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.03 01:59:00 - [182] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Many of us do not have unlimited ISK. But please, tell us what rules we have broken. The rule... of love. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Gimpb	Posted - 2008.03.03 02:01:00 - [183] Perhaps it's some attempt at large scale market manipulation... and even if it's not that would be a more than suitable excuse for doing it. So, can't see you getting very far calling it griefing.
Adarr Caldari g guild Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.03 02:04:00 - [184] Originally by: cal nereus Originally by: An Anarchyyt Many of us do not have unlimited ISK. But please, tell us what rules we have broken. The rule... of love. stop... in the naaaame of looove befoooore you pop my huuulk
Javus Talrath	Posted - 2008.03.03 02:11:00 - [185] If killing lots of haulers in highsec is a problem with the game, the best way to ever point it out is to exploit it to the fullest. A few dozen people whining never got anything changed :o Personally I don't se a problem with highsec ganking being possible, but I think Concord are too lenient on the offenders. It shouldn't be something you can keep doing every day without having to go spend alot of time ratting in exchange. Same thing with Privateers and war decs, war deccing is a part of the game but it was simply too cheap.
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.03 02:23:00 - [186] If high sec was supposed to represent consensual PvP, then they would have done something stupid like disabled your attack buttons, or the "suppression gas" excuse of Anarchy Online.
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 02:43:00 - [187] Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde I sympathize, but there's really nothing surprising about this. Goonswarm has stated from day one they are in EVE to break it, and ever since they've been trying various ways to do this. Now that they're the dominant 0.0 power they are turning toward the vast majoirty of the players in the game, which do reside in empire and hardly leave, and are becoming "terrorists". Keep in mind goonswarm has never claimed that. BOB has claimed that we are in the game to break it. its propaganda. We are attacking empire because it belongs to goonswarm. Thats all. -----------
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 02:47:00 - [188] Originally by: Dynast I doubt CCP is frothing at the bit to change anything just yet; this is a self-correcting problem. Anyone who has actually dropped their security status into the deep negatives knows the score -- it takes for *&#$ing ever to raise it. "Just a few weeks" is a few weeks in a video game. That's practically forever. And if you decide to do some more suicide ganking, you're back to square one. End result, for every day of serious hulk-ganking, you need to spend at leak 7-10 days of ratting in 0.0, which means that while a group of people can make a huge splash at the start.. in the long run, they can only do so much damage over the months, and the whole thing will blow over.. Yeah. I'm out for the count so I can get my sec up a few points. CCP, make killing people in null-sec give you a sec status increase tia. -----------
Sara Alkensia	Posted - 2008.03.03 03:12:00 - [189] I bet Minmatar space is pretty safe for at least Mackinaws. Goon's use minnie towers, which means they need Minmatar isotopes so they'd only **** themselves if people stop mining them there. If they were bright they'd clean out Amarr space since it'd hurt BoB.
WarMongeer	Posted - 2008.03.03 03:30:00 - [190] No. It's a good idea for several reasons: 1. Even though the swarm probably can't force people out into 0.0, they'll teach people to be a little bit smarter about mining. And given the choice between getting repeatedly ganked in highsec vs some of the more profitable areas of 0.0, they may cause some people to rethink mining op locations. 2. They make exploration gravimetric sites just a little bit more appealing. 3. Hulk producers have put on their pom poms and are cheering loudly. 4. They're not breaking any of the rules of the game. Like many of the people above me have stated, just set the goons to red and watch local. If that's not working for you, stay out of the belts and purchase (or find) exploration site belts to mine from. Adjust. It's what the goons are doing.

Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 03:39:00 - [191] Originally by: duckmonster Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde I sympathize, but there's really nothing surprising about this. Goonswarm has stated from day one they are in EVE to break it, and ever since they've been trying various ways to do this. Now that they're the dominant 0.0 power they are turning toward the vast majoirty of the players in the game, which do reside in empire and hardly leave, and are becoming "terrorists". Keep in mind goonswarm has never claimed that. BOB has claimed that we are in the game to break it. its propaganda. We are attacking empire because it belongs to goonswarm. Thats all. I agree. And the Empires should response by cancelling your Insurance and making war on you. Including on your alts making money in hisec. C'mon, it'll be fun. Simultaneous hits on Goonspace by Empire navies every time lag goes up in some system somewhere. Remember, Empire space belongs to you !
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:09:00 - [192] Right after we finish changing concord to attack everyone not criminally flagged Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:12:00 - [193] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 04:12:39 Like I said, if you hate the way things are going in EVE, don't just threaten to quit and whine about how nobody helps you. Just quit. And give me your stuff. In fact, give me your character, just to remove any temptation to come back. Assuming your character is actually worth buying, I will give you a month's subscription in the MMORPG of your choice in exchange. Either back up your threat and take my offer, or stop making it. The simple fact is, you will not be missed. Even if you convince every other carebear to quit, none of you will be missed. The mission-runners add literally nothing to the game outside of their subscription fee. The miners and manufacturers will be replaced. First, you won't even get all of them to quit, plenty of people with mining/production skills are happy to kill people as well. And one the competition is removed, the rest of us will train production alts, and we go right back to business as usual. Yeah, ok, prices will go up, but who cares. If you're in a big alliance, you have dedicated industrial support, and do not even notice the change. If you're a solo/small group PvPer, your kills-to-profit total doesn't change at all. If it takes you a 10-1 kill ratio to make a profit, if you double all prices, you double both your own ships AND the loot you get off your victims. Result: still a 10-1 kill ratio required. If you're a casual PvPer who does some PvE to fund some PvP on the side, your losses get more expensive, but all of your PvE activities pay more. Really, the only people who get hurt by you leaving are your fellow carebears!
Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:18:00 - [194] You misunderstand me. I dont have a problem with the Goons doing this. I just think the Empires should respond to this threat to their sovreingty and tax base. An economic embargo, with cancellation of Goonswarm's insurance policies is the obvious first step. Actually, my friend from BoB, explain how you think BoB would respond if someone was blowing up Exhumer's in BobSpace. I have $20 that says you'd say 'We'd go smack them if we could, and secure our space in any case'. All I'm saying is that NPC shouldnt mean 'stupid', and that they should do the same thing.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:18:00 - [195] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 04:12:39 Like I said, if you hate the way things are going in EVE, don't just threaten to quit and whine about how nobody helps you. Just quit. And give me your stuff. In fact, give me your character, just to remove any temptation to come back. Assuming your character is actually worth buying, I will give you a month's subscription in the MMORPG of your choice in exchange. Either back up your threat and take my offer, or stop making it. The simple fact is, you will not be missed. Even if you convince every other carebear to quit, none of you will be missed. The mission-runners add literally nothing to the game outside of their subscription fee. The miners and manufacturers will be replaced. First, you won't even get all of them to quit, plenty of people with mining/production skills are happy to kill people as well. And one the competition is removed, the rest of us will train production alts, and we go right back to business as usual. Yeah, ok, prices will go up, but who cares. If you're in a big alliance, you have dedicated industrial support, and do not even notice the change. If you're a solo/small group PvPer, your kills-to-profit total doesn't change at all. If it takes you a 10-1 kill ratio to make a profit, if you double all prices, you double both your own ships AND the loot you get off your victims. Result: still a 10-1 kill ratio required. If you're a casual PvPer who does some PvE to fund some PvP on the side, your losses get more expensive, but all of your PvE activities pay more. Really, the only people who get hurt by you leaving are your fellow carebears! /thread Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:19:00 - [196] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 03/03/2008 04:20:23 Originally by: Brun Thorvald You misunderstand me. I dont have a problem with the Goons doing this. I just think the Empires should respond to this threat to their sovreingty and tax base. An economic embargo, with cancellation of Goonswarm's insurance policies is the obvious first step. Actually, my friend from BoB, explain how you think BoB would respond if someone was blowing up Exhumer's in BobSpace. I have $20 that says you'd say 'We'd go smack them if we could, and secure our space in any case'. All I'm saying is that NPC shouldnt mean 'stupid', and that they should do the same thing. I'd be fine with that if faction navies didn't use cheat/hax modules, and if concord didn't completely hax, and the bloody sentries were destructable. Then we could have fun showing you who the empires REALLY belong to. The mission runners/etc would either protect themselves instead of relying on faction navy + concord combo or die Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Kian Qel'Droma	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:20:00 - [197] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 04:12:39 Like I said, if you hate the way things are going in EVE, don't just threaten to quit and whine about how nobody helps you. Just quit. And give me your stuff. In fact, give me your character, just to remove any temptation to come back. Assuming your character is actually worth buying, I will give you a month's subscription in the MMORPG of your choice in exchange. Either back up your threat and take my offer, or stop making it. The simple fact is, you will not be missed. Even if you convince every other carebear to quit, none of you will be missed. The mission-runners add literally nothing to the game outside of their subscription fee. The miners and manufacturers will be replaced. First, you won't even get all of them to quit, plenty of people with mining/production skills are happy to kill people as well. And one the competition is removed, the rest of us will train production alts, and we go right back to business as usual. Yeah, ok, prices will go up, but who cares. If you're in a big alliance, you have dedicated industrial support, and do not even notice the change. If you're a solo/small group PvPer, your kills-to-profit total doesn't change at all. If it takes you a 10-1 kill ratio to make a profit, if you double all prices, you double both your own ships AND the loot you get off your victims. Result: still a 10-1 kill ratio required. If you're a casual PvPer who does some PvE to fund some PvP on the side, your losses get more expensive, but all of your PvE activities pay more. Really, the only people who get hurt by you leaving are your fellow carebears! ^^This
Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:22:00 - [198] Originally by: Cpt Branko I'd be fine with that if faction navies didn't use cheat/hax modules, and if concord didn't completely hax, and the bloody sentries were destructable. Then we could have fun showing you who the empires REALLY belong to. The mission runners/etc would either protect themselves instead of relying on faction navy + concord combo or die You call them 'hax'. I call them 'tier 3'.
Berrik Radhok GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:33:00 - [199] Frankly, anyone stupid enough to try to solo mine in a Hulk in the space of an alliance they don't have standings to deserves whatever they get.
Valkazm Amarr Knights of Tiberius Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:35:00 - [200] Originally by: theteck all dead like freighter and exumers need to have prossibility to tank ccp need to put all this super armor to fix this problem ... just yesterday i see 5 gang suicide all system start to be laggy with all this concord that my point Good point nerf concord they create lagg ....................................... Signature Breaking Eve news

Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:35:00 - [201] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Brun Thorvald I just think the Empires should respond to this threat to their sovreingty and tax base. Why? Are the Hulk pilots actually paying anything for this protection? Are the Hulk pilots members of NPC factions (in a relevant way, not just having default NPC corp status, with zero taxes or membership obligations)? Quote: An economic embargo, with cancellation of Goonswarm's insurance policies is the obvious first step. Why? Why would NPC factions (the insurance company being one of them) give up their profits and refuse to deal with Goonswarm? The NPC factions aren't being attacked, why should they care? Quote: Actually, my friend from BoB, explain how you think BoB would respond if someone was blowing up Exhumer's in BobSpace. I have $20 that says you'd say 'We'd go smack them if we could, and secure our space in any case'. All I'm saying is that NPC shouldnt mean 'stupid', and that they should do the same thing. No, actually we wouldn't do anything about it. The Hulk pilots are not NPC faction members or allies in any meaningful way. So by your analogy, we're talking about people blowing up neutrals in BoB space, and who cares. We might be annoyed that we didn't get to kill them first (by NBSI rules), but we aren't going to protect random strangers from their own stupidity. So actually, the empires are doing MORE than a player faction would, since CONCORD kills the criminal ship and gives a security status penalty, while your average player faction would just ignore the attacks. When the cargos get sold in ie Jita, the Empire gets it's cut. And as to your attitude - yup, thats part of why you ran out of pets. Finally, if you think the Insurance Company is making a profit off the Goonswarm, I'd have a look at your killboard and do some math. If I was the Insurers, I'd be begging for an excuse to declare them Held Covered.
Billy Sastard Amarr Life. Universe. Everything.	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:39:00 - [202] Originally by: Glassback The fact that this can happen is the reason I play this game every day. G. QFT -=^=-
Preditor Scorpious	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:40:00 - [203] You know being a miner in high sec I don't like goon coming in and popping my fellow miners. This is however within the rules of eve and so be it. But what I think CCP does need to do is stop paying insurance isk out for ships that get concorded for these offenses. It isn't right for a thief to get paid for stealing and it isn't right that somone breaking a law in eve to get paid for the destruction of there ship well they are breaking said law. I know the gankers will say but I lost my ship and should get paid for it but now they are the ones crying becouse they are not making isk on causing someone else to loose out.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:45:00 - [204] Originally by: Brun Thorvald When the cargos get sold in ie Jita, the Empire gets it's cut. This is true. When those Hulk pilots have to buy new ships, the NPC faction gets its cut. When the Goons sell the loot from the destroyed ships, the NPC faction gets its cut. Quote: And as to your attitude - yup, thats part of why you ran out of pets. Nice job missing the point. If the destroyed Hulks in BoB space were allies (pets), of course we (and most other player groups) would avenge them. The point you miss is that the dead miners are not NPC allies. They are neutrals. Ever hear of the NBSI rule, which most 0.0 alliances operate under? Quote: Finally, if you think the Insurance Company is making a profit off the Goonswarm, I'd have a look at your killboard and do some math. If I was the Insurers, I'd be begging for an excuse to declare them Held Covered. This is only because insurance in general makes no sense from a business perspective. If we were working by real-world rules, the insurance companies would have been out of business long before Goonswarm was even formed. So we have to assume that there is some way (magic, essentially) of making a profit from insurance deals. If full insurance is profitable enough to offer at all, there is no reason for the insurance company to give up Goonswarm as potential customers.
Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 04:52:00 - [205] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: Brun Thorvald When the cargos get sold in ie Jita, the Empire gets it's cut. This is true. When those Hulk pilots have to buy new ships, the NPC faction gets its cut. When the Goons sell the loot from the destroyed ships, the NPC faction gets its cut. Quote: And as to your attitude - yup, thats part of why you ran out of pets. Nice job missing the point. If the destroyed Hulks in BoB space were allies (pets), of course we (and most other player groups) would avenge them. The point you miss is that the dead miners are not NPC allies. They are neutrals. Ever hear of the NBSI rule, which most 0.0 alliances operate under? Quote: Finally, if you think the Insurance Company is making a profit off the Goonswarm, I'd have a look at your killboard and do some math. If I was the Insurers, I'd be begging for an excuse to declare them Held Covered. This is only because insurance in general makes no sense from a business perspective. If we were working by real-world rules, the insurance companies would have been out of business long before Goonswarm was even formed. So we have to assume that there is some way (magic, essentially) of making a profit from insurance deals. If full insurance is profitable enough to offer at all, there is no reason for the insurance company to give up Goonswarm as potential customers. Absolutely about NBSI. And I've also noted the ... liberal ... attitude of the NPC corps aka Empires in setting just about everyone Blue, and how hard you have to work to lose it. But once you are NotBlue, then you get do indeed get shot, which is why they call it "suicide ganking" (ps note the Goon upthread noting how he has to spend time getting his security rating back up to Blue with Concord). I'm arguing those running Exhumers were Blue to the Empires, and therefore should get avenged. After all, ask the Angels about NBSI in Empire space.
Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:02:00 - [206] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 04:46:37 This is only because insurance in general makes no sense from a business perspective. If we were working by real-world rules, the insurance companies would have been out of business long before Goonswarm was even formed. So we have to assume that there is some way (magic, essentially) of making a profit from insurance deals. If full insurance is profitable enough to offer at all, there is no reason for the insurance company to give up Goonswarm as potential customers. Insurance makes lots of sense, even insurance in war zones (ie Lloyds were actually offering during the Tanker War. You just had ... high ... premiums). But you limit the insurance to good risks, or you charge bad risks through the nose. I believe I can build you an insurance company that makes an ISK profit in EVE. What I cant build without magic isk created out of thin air is an insurance program that is prepared to pay out to bad risks. For a start, only insure Industrial ships, and their Policy Amount is multiplied by the Sec Status of the system you lost it in. Lose three or more ships and you're a Bad Risk and we dont write you further business.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:09:00 - [207] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 05:15:19 The NPC factions do not use a literal NBSI system, but it's closer to that than anything else. Neutrals are not actively hunted, but the NPC factions only do the absolute minimum to protect you. In this case, CONCORD blows up the attacker's ship and gives you kill rights on them. Any harsher punishment would be reserved for attacks on allies of the NPCs, something the Hulk pilots are clearly not. And yes, I know what insurance is, I am not an idiot. I'm talking about the system in EVE. If EVE actually obeyed real-world business rules, the insurance companies would have been bankrupt long before this little incident. Even ignoring suicide gankers completely, they'd still be bankrupt just from general combat. Since insurance is still offered, we must conclude that there is just something strange about the EVE markets, and the insurance company has a very profitable secret. Now, this means two things: 1) Covering suicide gankers makes perfect sense. If full insurance is profitable for the insurance company for whatever magical reason, it doesn't matter whether the ship is destroyed by CONCORD or by legal combat. Refusing to cover suicide gankers means turning down profitable insurance sales, something completely out of character for EVE's "profit at costs" ethical system. 2) Covering Goonswarm makes perfect sense. They are not attacking the insurance company, so covering them is profitable. In fact, covering them is MORE profitable than covering your average industrial pilot, because they know Goonswarm will be back again and again to buy more insurance. Why would the insurance company turn down easy profit because some other NPCs have a bad opinion of Goonswarm?
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:27:00 - [208] Gentlemen and gentlemen pretending to be ladies... I give you the only cool BoB Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
PhantomMenace Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:30:00 - [209] goonswarm rock
RigelKentaurus Flying Tartiflette Caldari Deep Space Industral	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:31:00 - [210] Originally by: AndrewRyan People are only cheering the goons because its miners, miners in EVE are considered as some kind of less than human sub species so everybody applauds. If they where doing this to haulers or the first ship they saw in high sec the whining would be through the ceiling right about now. "If you're not like me or not the way I want you to be, then you deserve to die." EVE must be among the best moderns ways to allow true human nature to show itself despite millenia of civilization. _________ Someday, EVE may look like this.

cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:35:00 - [211] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 05:15:19 1) Covering suicide gankers makes perfect sense. If full insurance is profitable for the insurance company for whatever magical reason, it doesn't matter whether the ship is destroyed by CONCORD or by legal combat. Refusing to cover suicide gankers means turning down profitable insurance sales, something completely out of character for EVE's "profit at costs" ethical system. 2) Covering Goonswarm makes perfect sense. They are not attacking the insurance company, so covering them is profitable. In fact, covering them is MORE profitable than covering your average industrial pilot, because they know Goonswarm will be back again and again to buy more insurance. Why would the insurance company turn down easy profit because some other NPCs have a bad opinion of Goonswarm? I never thought about insurance like this before, but now that I am, I have to agree with Merin. --- Join BH-DL Skills
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.03 05:38:00 - [212] Cry me a river. Forcing out non combatants is lag reduction in its purest form. If you want to make shooting neutrals a bannable offense then all of the NPC corps need to be war deccable in keeping with eves "No one is safe" philosophy. Instead of whining why dont you band together and war dec goon, or pay mercs to, or go to 0.0 and kill them. No excuses... get it done or deal with being at the bottom of the food chain in silence.
Dimagus	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:09:00 - [213] Edited by: Dimagus on 03/03/2008 06:10:26 Sounds like the CCP Insurance Company needs to do an audit and post the numbers for everyone to see. How much players pay per month, how much insurance pays out, the net profit, and how often that both the target and the suicider are insured by the same Company
Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:16:00 - [214] Originally by: Merin Ryskin 1) Covering suicide gankers makes perfect sense. If full insurance is profitable for the insurance company for whatever magical reason, it doesn't matter whether the ship is destroyed by CONCORD or by legal combat. Refusing to cover suicide gankers means turning down profitable insurance sales, something completely out of character for EVE's "profit at costs" ethical system. 2) Covering Goonswarm makes perfect sense. They are not attacking the insurance company, so covering them is profitable. In fact, covering them is MORE profitable than covering your average industrial pilot, because they know Goonswarm will be back again and again to buy more insurance. Why would the insurance company turn down easy profit because some other NPCs have a bad opinion of Goonswarm? And if they are attacking the insurance company's clients then ... oh, I forgot. (Insurance payouts - insurance total insurer premiums paid) does not equal Insurer Loss in your universe.
Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:21:00 - [215] Originally by: Dimagus Edited by: Dimagus on 03/03/2008 06:10:26 Sounds like the CCP Insurance Company needs to do an audit and post the numbers for everyone to see. How much players pay per month, how much insurance pays out, the net profit, and how often that both the target and the suicider are insured by the same Company I'd like to see this broken down further into Ship Types. And then have CCP Insurance refusing to insure unprofitable ships. Yes, PvPers will whine. But there's plenty of ways to make ISK, and as they do not cease to tell gankees, 'Dont fly what you cant lose'.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:36:00 - [216] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 06:36:32 Originally by: Brun Thorvald And if they are attacking the insurance company's clients then ... oh, I forgot. (Insurance payouts - insurance total insurer premiums paid) does not equal Insurer Loss in your universe. Actually that's the ideal situation! This way, you get twice as many insurance sales. The guy who got blown up insures his new ship, and the guy who killed him insures his new ship. On the other hand, if the killer blows up someone who isn't a client, you only get one new sale. Remember, EVE operates under the "profit at all costs" system of ethics... selling to both sides of a war is not only ethically acceptable, it's good business. And no, you can't count an insurance contract that is never paid out as profit in the long run. Two reasons: 1) Most ships in EVE are destroyed before the contract expires. If the insurance company is going to have to pay anyway, it's best to have it done ASAP so the client can purchase another contract. 2) Yes, this contract is nice.... once. After that, the client is likely to think he is safe without insurance, and he will not renew his contract. The better alternative is the client constantly loses ships, requiring the purchase of more and more insurance contracts. Remember, we're operating under the assumption that somehow the insurance company is making a profit off each contract sold. Otherwise, Goonswarm is irrelevant, the insurance company would have gone bankrupt long before Goonswarm was formed.
Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 06:47:00 - [217] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Remember, we're operating under the assumption that somehow the insurance company is making a profit off each contract sold. Otherwise, Goonswarm is irrelevant, the insurance company would have gone bankrupt long before Goonswarm was formed. No, that is your assumption. I, on the other hand, can count, and have an interest in an economy that actually is Player Run, rather than handwaved into existance by CCP. The Insurance Company is such a handwave, formed by CCP for the metagaming reason so PvPers (consenting or not) dont whine too much when their ships get blown up and they cant afford another one. It might have been neccessary for game balance in the good old days. These days, players have the economy figured out and we're swimming in Isk. Now, if we handwave that the Empire States supported the Insurance Company to encourage exploration, trade, and so on, then I can handwave it (ie the British government insured shipping in WW2. It also had the Navy blow the crap out of raiders on sight). But, what I cannot handwave is the insurance company backed by Empire states covering the people openly blowing up **** in Empire states. Now, I dont mind Goonswarm doing this, really. I like the fact the Evil Mean Barbarians are PCs really, just like the Old Evil Empire are also PCs. But I think the Empires should respond when their pets are being blown up, an an appropriate first step is cancelling Goonswarms insurance coverage. And if that doesnt work, then they should take further steps.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:09:00 - [218] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 07:11:28 Fine, then remove insurance period. If it is not profitable, it should not be given to anyone, but that's a completely irrelevant issue here. If you disagree, please tell me the difference between the following scenarios: 1) Full insurance on a Goonswarm suicide ship, which pays out far more than it costs. 2) Full insurance on a mission-running Raven, which pays out far more than it costs. Both ships will eventually die, and the owner will have to be paid. It doesn't make any difference that the Goonswarm ships will die more frequently, both are losing contracts and would never be issued in the first place. The only way to salvage any kind of sense from the system is to assume that there is some bizarre unknown mechanism that allows the insurance contract to be profitable for the insurance company. If this is true, the insurance company wants to sell contracts as fast as possible, and this means selling to everyone who wants one. In fact, Goonswarm is doing the insurance companies a huge favor, by generating high sales volume. And once again: those Hulk pilots are NOT empire "pets". They are neutrals, and in EVE's profit-at-all-costs system of ethics, the are only a number in the accounting books. The empires have no interest in keeping those pilots from being blown up, they will pay their taxes just as much whether they are trading in minerals or buying new Hulks. In fact, the Hulk pilots actually get MORE protection than they should, as CONCORD blows up the attacker and issues a security status penalty. And that's still no reason to cancel their insurance coverage. Cancelling insurance to ALL combat pilots would make sense, but why would illegal acts be relevant? If pilots who frequently lose ships are profitable to insure, Goonswarm is profitable. EVE's ethical system leaves no room for "protect the innocent", if Goonswarm is profitable to deal with, the insurance company will deal with them, no matter how many people they murder.
Akkrillo Dread Lords	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:15:00 - [219] Quote: blah blah, insurance... let us all take a moment and remember its a game. not everything has to fit with perfect rp logic. The eve insurance agency is not supposed to function as an actual insurance agency that is out to make a profit. it exists to provide isk back so when people go out into combat they can get a new ship without spending weeks to get another. And now its time for me to provide you all with my personal opinions. dont like what i say, then eat glass for all i care.- suicide gankers should not be provided with insurance payouts. they know all too well they will be losing their ships when they engage a target. This is the hand that will blind your eyes and split your spine This is the blade thatÆll visit your flesh and release the wine
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:24:00 - [220] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 07:24:17 Originally by: Akkrillo Quote: blah blah, insurance... let us all take a moment and remember its a game. not everything has to fit with perfect rp logic. It has to fit with RP logic when he's using RP logic as the reason for removing insurance payouts from suicide ganks. Quote: The eve insurance agency is not supposed to function as an actual insurance agency that is out to make a profit. it exists to provide isk back so when people go out into combat they can get a new ship without spending weeks to get another. Good. Then it should give Goonswarm money to be sure they can go right back to combat without having to spend weeks to get a new battleship. Since insurance makes those ship losses fairly trivial, I would say it's doing a very good job. Quote: And now its time for me to provide you all with my personal opinions. dont like what i say, then eat glass for all i care.- suicide gankers should not be provided with insurance payouts. they know all too well they will be losing their ships when they engage a target. And how is this different from any other form of PvP in EVE? Virtually every ship you take into PvP will be lost at some point, the only question is how many kills you get before this happens. By this reasoning, people who are bad at PvP should not get insurance, because they know they are going to lose their ships. I should not get insurance on my interdictors, because I know they are going to die whenever I take them into a fleet battle. Industrial pilots who fly with valuable cargo should not get insurance because they know they are going to lose the ship if they undock with a cargo worth suicide ganking. Etc.

Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:31:00 - [221] Merin, I keep reminding myself that you must be one of BoB's soldiers, rather than someone who keeps their economy going. Yes, the people being blown up are pets. They sell every day at the station. Yes, they should pay more taxes, but they do pay some transaction taxes. If they lose too many Exhumers, the miners have to stop mining, and then even those taxes dont get paid. And if you let your pets get smeared too often, they leave, you whine about being backstabbed, and then you get locked in Delve by superior numbers rather than ruling the vast tracts of space as is your birthright as BoB. No, really, I think the Caldari State has seen what happens if you dont look after your pets and they successfully get targeted by Goons. Again, the pets leave, and then you get locked in Delve by superior numbers. As it happens, yes, I personally believe no combat ship should have insurance, as they are bad risks. I also believe that as of now, Goonswarm get a large cheque every month for Insurance. While I personally believe that Empires should take more assertive action, cutting off their insurance is a nice first step until they start playing nice with the Empires, and stop challenging their sov and tax base.
Zorlag Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:37:00 - [222] The Empire factions don't buy isotopes. There aren't any NPC buy orders. Evidently, the only demand created for ice mining is by pod pilots and Empire factions couldn't care less if you do it. Also, it's fun to blow you all up and watch the screams. Lately I've noticed that the screaming in local begins even before I warp to a belt, which is nice.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:41:00 - [223] Originally by: Brun Thorvald Yes, the people being blown up are pets. They sell every day at the station. Yes, they should pay more taxes, but they do pay some transaction taxes. If they lose too many Exhumers, the miners have to stop mining, and then even those taxes dont get paid. The empires do not care if taxes are paid on mineral sales or on replacement Hulks and Goonswarm's loot sales. Mining does not generate ISK, it just makes it change hands... if all the miners die, the only difference is whose hands that money will be going into. The same taxes are paid either way, so the empires do not care. Quote: And if you let your pets get smeared too often, they leave, you whine about being backstabbed, and then you get locked in Delve by superior numbers rather than ruling the vast tracts of space as is your birthright as BoB. No, really, I think the Caldari State has seen what happens if you dont look after your pets and they successfully get targeted by Goons. Again, the pets leave, and then you get locked in Delve by superior numbers. Way to bring politics into the discussion. Funny how I, as a BoB player and the eternal enemy of Goonswarm, can put aside politics and celebrate some carebear massacres, but you have to fall back on political attacks as your only argument. And once again: those miners are NOT pets. They contribute absolutely nothing to the NPC empires beyond a minimal sales tax (and NO corporate tax) that every player pays. Those miners should be glad that they have the protection they currently get, as it's way more than they would get from any human corporation. Quote: As it happens, yes, I personally believe no combat ship should have insurance, as they are bad risks. Fine, then take it to a new thread. The issue you're complaining about is not Goonswarm's actions, it's the flaws of the insurance system in general. In fact, we could use the same reasoning to deny insurance for the miners. After all, Goonswarm's little miner killing spree has made the EVE news and attracted plenty of attention. If the suicide attackers don't deserve it for being high-risk customers, neither does anyone who takes an expensive barge into an area where suicide gankers are known to operate. Quote: While I personally believe that Empires should take more assertive action, cutting off their insurance is a nice first step until they start playing nice with the Empires, and stop challenging their sov and tax base. Why would they cut off insurance? Under the assumption that insurance is a profitable business (a required one to make any sense of the system at all), Goonswarm are not only not poor customers, they are providing an excellent service for the insurance company. Every time Goonswarm suicide ganks a Hulk, the insurance company gets at least two new sales. Turning away such valuable customers would be utterly insane! And nobody is challenging the tax base. Remember, this is profit-at-all-costs ethics we're dealing with, the NPC empires do not care if they collect taxes on a miner selling minerals, or on Goonswarm selling the miner's loot.
Babel Polyglot Cunning Linguists and Associates	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:44:00 - [224] On that note, wouldn't it be funny if the Empire newbie corps did charge a tax?
Akkrillo Dread Lords	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:45:00 - [225] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 07:24:17 And how is this different from any other form of PvP in EVE? Virtually every ship you take into PvP will be lost at some point, the only question is how many kills you get before this happens. By this reasoning, people who are bad at PvP should not get insurance, because they know they are going to lose their ships. I should not get insurance on my interdictors, because I know they are going to die whenever I take them into a fleet battle. Industrial pilots who fly with valuable cargo should not get insurance because they know they are going to lose the ship if they undock with a cargo worth suicide ganking. Etc. the difference is that when people go into combat, they want to be the victors. their ships remain while their enemies are drifting debris. by removing insurance from ships that are basically self destructed by their pilots(self destructing voids insurance payouts by the way), will stop people from commiting a criminal act with relatively no repercussions. dont get me wrong, im all for suiciding a target that will make you a profit. said profits should be taken into account when choosing a victim though- will it cover our ships and ammo? is it worth the sec loss? our time? This is the hand that will blind your eyes and split your spine This is the blade thatÆll visit your flesh and release the wine
Brun Thorvald	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:52:00 - [226] Merin, I'm reviewing your comments, and stuff it. You're a pilot. Can you get me the name of someone in BoB with a clue about markets, and then I'll discuss this with them. Your 'mining doesnt make ISK' comment was the end of it to me. I mean, where do you think all that tritanium in your ship comes from ? () () Yeah I know. Melted ratting/mission loot, magic handwaves on masses of cheap Caldari shuttles and the occasional multi-million Trit haul from ratting.
Jhyme Amarr Igneus Auctorita	Posted - 2008.03.03 07:55:00 - [227] Just tried this a few times in empire, and it's hard for a dumb noob like me. We failed two times-- the first time my alt covops (flying a covops for the first time) ran into an asteroid and uncloaked... very slick. And then I realized at the last second that the intended target was blue: the covops was neutral and did not have standings. The second time, I forgot I had warp core stabs fitted from empire war dec dodging, and was wondering why I couldn't target the target while my partner got violated in the rear by Concord. Failswarm.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:06:00 - [228] Quote: the difference is that when people go into combat, they want to be the victors. their ships remain while their enemies are drifting debris. by removing insurance from ships that are basically self destructed by their pilots(self destructing voids insurance payouts by the way), will stop people from commiting a criminal act with relatively no repercussions. Except self-destructed ships DO get insurance. So, learn about the game before you whine.
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:10:00 - [229] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 08:14:52 Originally by: Akkrillo the difference is that when people go into combat, they want to be the victors. their ships remain while their enemies are drifting debris. by removing insurance from ships that are basically self destructed by their pilots(self destructing voids insurance payouts by the way), will stop people from commiting a criminal act with relatively no repercussions. Actually self-destructing does NOT void insurance payout. And why does it matter if you plan to win a couple fights before you die? If I take a ship into combat, why does the insurance company care if I suicide it right now, or if I lose it a couple days from now after scoring a couple kills? It's still a lost ship and the insurance company has to pay for it. There are two possible options here: 1) Insurance on lost ships is profitable. The insurance company celebrates every time I buy a new ship and have to insure it. If this is true, suicide ganking is awesome for the insurance company, you buy your new insurance policy immediately (and another one, and another one, etc), and so does your target. 2) Insurance on lost ships is not profitable. In this case, neither ship should be insured. Yes, losing ships more frequently means more losses for the insurance company, but no sane company will take EITHER deal. It doesn't matter if I have a 99% chance or a 99.5% chance of losing the ship soon, both are losing deals. Or, for another example, consider my interdictors. Every time I take one into a fleet battle, I expect it to die. Dropping a bubble on the enemy fleet is a one-way trip 95% of the time. But I still get my insurance payout, and I don't see anyone complaining about this fact. Why not? If suicide ganking doesn't deserve an insurance payout, there are a lot more things that need to get your insurance revoked. Originally by: Brun Thorvald Your 'mining doesnt make ISK' comment was the end of it to me. I mean, where do you think all that tritanium in your ship comes from ? () You know, you should actually know what you're talking about before you go around insulting people. Mining does not MAKE* ISK, it transfers it from one character to another. The total amount of ISK in the economy remains exactly the same. The exact same amount of ISK is being spent and taxed, the only difference is who is getting that ISK. From your perspective, there is a huge difference, but from the perspective of the NPC empire it doesn't matter. Since tax income is the same, the NPC empire has no interest in your survival. Consider these two scenarios: 1) I need a cruiser. You mine minerals, and I give you 5 million ISK to build me a ship. 2) You are dead. A Goonswarm pilot sells me your loot for 5 million ISK. Both transactions provide the same tax income to the NPC empire. Since EVE's ethics consist of "profit at all costs, and sucks to be the guy you screwed to do it", the NPC empire has no reason to make any effort to keep you alive.
Mekela	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:32:00 - [230] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 08:14:52 If I take a ship into combat, why does the insurance company care if I suicide it right now, or if I lose it a couple days from now after scoring a couple kills? It's still a lost ship and the insurance company has to pay for it. There are two possible options here: 1) Insurance on lost ships is profitable. The insurance company celebrates every time I buy a new ship and have to insure it. If this is true, suicide ganking is awesome for the insurance company, you buy your new insurance policy immediately (and another one, and another one, etc), and so does your target. 2) Insurance on lost ships is not profitable. In this case, neither ship should be insured. Yes, losing ships more frequently means more losses for the insurance company, but no sane company will take EITHER deal. It doesn't matter if I have a 99% chance or a 99.5% chance of losing the ship soon, both are losing deals. Or, for another example, consider my interdictors. Every time I take one into a fleet battle, I expect it to die. Dropping a bubble on the enemy fleet is a one-way trip 95% of the time. But I still get my insurance payout, and I don't see anyone complaining about this fact. Why not? If suicide ganking doesn't deserve an insurance payout, there are a lot more things that need to get your insurance revoked. Just to let you know, insurance does not work that way. Insurance is based on the idea that they won't have to pay you. All insurance is run this way, especially RL. When you take out an insurance policy they are hoping that they never have to pay you. Alot of people will cancel their contracts or have them expire without them ever being payed out on and thus the insurance company makes alot of money. That is why when they do have to pay out they jack up your prices - to much pay out and they won't insure you any more. They have been told that empire space while not safe will provide consequences to the attackers. However for all we can see this is a lie, there are almost no consequences for the goons actions.(sure there are some but they are next to usless) The funny thing is the "carebears" for the most part are not advocating the end of ganking or the end of pvp. What they want is what they were promised, consequences for those that attack them.

Sakura Nihil Stimulus The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:38:00 - [231] Goonswarm, I heartily encourage your attempts to kill these people in highsec.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:38:00 - [232] Edited by: Surfin''s PlunderBunny on 03/03/2008 08:38:55 Insurance Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 08:55:00 - [233] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 08:55:38 Originally by: Mekela Just to let you know, insurance does not work that way. Insurance is based on the idea that they won't have to pay you. All insurance is run this way, especially RL. When you take out an insurance policy they are hoping that they never have to pay you. Alot of people will cancel their contracts or have them expire without them ever being payed out on and thus the insurance company makes alot of money. That is why when they do have to pay out they jack up your prices - to much pay out and they won't insure you any more. Again, I know how real-life insurance works, I am not an idiot. My point is that insurance IN EVE clearly works differently. EVE's insurance system would bankrupt any real company almost instantly. The only way to make any sense of this is to assume that insurance companies in EVE have found a way to make their business profitable even when paying out claims to everyone. Maybe it's legitimate, maybe it's dishonest accounting, maybe it's a losing investment that covers criminal activity, maybe it's charity from a rich idiot, who cares. Just note the fundamental point here: "Insurance is based on the idea that they won't have to pay you". This is completely false in EVE. Virtually every ship will eventually be destroyed eventually, the vast majority of them within the duration of the insurance contract. The few ships that are actually expected to survive long enough for the contract to expire are the ones nobody bothers to insure! Quote: This whole conversation is besides the point. I am unhappy because I feel CCP has lied to me, and I think alot of people feel the same. We have been told that empire space while not safe will provide consequences to the attackers. However for all we can see this is a lie, there are almost no consequences for the goons actions.(sure there are some but they are next to usless) The funny thing is the "carebears" for the most part are not advocating the end of ganking or the end of pvp. What they want is what they were promised, consequences for those that attack them. So we try to be helpfull and say here is how to fix the problem and help us feel more like CCP is trying to do what it has stated. 3l33t players in the mean time are screaming bloody murder to not have the loophole closed because they are about as elite as a virgin strawberry Daiquiri. Whine more please. Nobody lied to you. CCP told you very clearly that high-sec is not safe, the only safety promised is that your attacker must hate you enough to be willing to lose their ship to kill you. And guess what, these are exactly the consequences Goonswarm is suffering. Sucks to be you that you made yourself a target, huh? The solution is for you carebears to shut up and fight back, instead of whining to CCP to protect you. Or just leave, really. If you wish to quit, I will (assuming you actually fly a Hulk) give you a month's subscription to the MMORPG of your choice in exchange for your character. This goes to anyone whining about losing their ship, I will be happy to help you leave and go to WoW.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:00:00 - [234] It said consequences, not effective consequences Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Denzai d'Ray	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:01:00 - [235] Thinking about it a bit, and playing the Devil's advocate here, so don't shoot my creative brain (rather aim at my rear-end :); GS are megacarebears! Hitting exhumers is the same level of carebear play that miners choose to do. Why, coz ya suiciding 300+ exhumers in a couple weeks time and the only downfall you have is loosing a cheap ship and pop ya back in station buying another one a few secs later. That's carebear in da extreme, the miner atleast took some risks and plays the game (if he likes it or not :)) So if CCP should do something about da game, it should be making it less carebear!!!! GS don't be such a baby carebears, take a change, take some risks, play EVE!
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:14:00 - [236] Edited by: umop 3pisdn on 03/03/2008 09:16:50 Originally by: Dimagus While not politically correct, here is a chart explaining the risk in EVE: 0.0 = International Waters 0.1-0.4 = Middle East 0.5-1.0 = US High School Infer the comparisons for pirates and suicide gankers at your own discretion. I find this chart to be highly accurate. Also Merin Ryskin for new BoB CEO, your posts are wonderful. Any miner with a brain would fly an insured covetor for the duration of the murder spree, but that would ruin your wonderful, safe, isk/hour rates wouldnt it? and we cant have that...
LtCol DukeNukem	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:29:00 - [237] Edited by: LtCol DukeNukem on 03/03/2008 09:30:42 Originally by: Preditor Scorpious You know being a miner in high sec I don't like goon coming in and popping my fellow miners. This is however within the rules of eve and so be it. But what I think CCP does need to do is stop paying insurance isk out for ships that get concorded for these offenses. It isn't right for a thief to get paid for stealing and it isn't right that somone breaking a law in eve to get paid for the destruction of there ship well they are breaking said law. I know the gankers will say but I lost my ship and should get paid for it but now they are the ones crying becouse they are not making isk on causing someone else to loose out. I agree just like in the "real world" (Yup there's that ugly phrase) that would be called INSURANCE FRAUD and we all know that, it is illegal! Now if EVE was the Real World it would be illegal also so WHY ISN'T IT!!!!
BlondieBC Minmatar Rising Knights SMASH Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:38:00 - [238] Good Job Goon. Keep Killing potential macro miners.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:39:00 - [239] Maybe because it isnt the real world. You can easilly take out a hulk with a well skilled vexor pilot, no doubt about that. Vexors cost like 5mil, I think you'll find the only people who would lose out of your "insurance fix" are people ganking freighters with BS (which doesnt happen much anymore thanks to nerfs) and people who accidentally open fire in highsec. I've done it twice I think since I started, I would be ****ed if I hadn't gotten the insurance to soften the blow of what is a very simple mistake during an empire war. So basically STOP WHINING. Deal with it. Fly t1 fitted retrievers and benefit from the same system? Ever think of that? Dont fly what you cant afford to lose, continue crying this river of sweet tears You do not realise it but the goons are collecting every single sweet tear and outburst and taking them to their leader. This mythical Queen bee known as "Sesfan" feeds his enormous Hive Mind! with your salty carebear tears. This hive mind is what is winning the war for goon! You have only yourself to blame when it is over and the only thing left for goon to shoot is carebears in empire, because 5000 goons will do a lot more damage than a few dozen. Heed thy warning.
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:42:00 - [240] Hmm I like the calls that the carebears are violating the risk vs reward by mining in Empire. What's the risk to the pilots suiciding them? I see no risk for the suiciders. With insurance payout they pretty much make back all of their expenses. What little is left can easily be made up selling the modules they steal off the now destroyed Exhumers. So there is no risk for them. Thus by their own logic in order to balance the risk vs reward, there needs to be an adjustment. In order to reintroduce the risk vs reward in this instance and all such instances it seems fair that CCP recode insurance such that it does not pay out when the insured uses their ship in a criminal act and it is destroyed for such. If you do it enough and harass enough people they will change the rules, they've done it in the past and will do it again. Also calling for carebears to leave the game is not productive. The game needs them as much as it needs combat people. Without the carebears, you'd have no ships, ammo, modules etc other than what you can loot off NPCs and well lets face it that's not all that exciting. The same is also true without the PVPers the carebears would have noone to buy their goods. Both are needed for EVE. Hampering the carebears really only hampers the PVPers in the long run. If they can't mine and build stuff to sell to you, you'll run out of stuff to fight with eventually. Most of the 0.0 empires also depend on empire ice to maintain their vast number of POSs, they simply can't mine enough on their own. If you destroy all those mining ice, then in the end your hurting yourself as much as them. So wise up, stop complaining about the carebears and realize they provide a valuable service to the game. Stop harassing them to the point they can't do anything as it only hurts the game as a whole and yourself in the long run.

Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 09:48:00 - [241] Originally by: El'Niaga Most of the 0.0 empires also depend on empire ice to maintain their vast number of POSs, they simply can't mine enough on their own. If you destroy all those mining ice, then in the end your hurting yourself as much as them. You'll notice the ice miners in certain areas are not being hassled at all... we won't endanger our POS fuel supply. This isn't about the carebears.... this is about business Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:20:00 - [242] I agree don't complain about being suicideganked at gates/belts in empire.CCP wants the game to be as it is , so don't complain. Either deal/ live with it or stop your subscript.I did the last one with my 3 accounts just as a few good mates of mine because we are fed up with it. It's a free world out there....
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:44:00 - [243] Could be that the insurance companies are subsidized a fixed amount per contract, so they have an incentive to make as many contracts as possible. The ones doing the subsidizing are the same people in government who are trying to get people to leave the planets and join the pod-pilot culture in outer space, even if it yields a net financial loss. It could all be part of a long-term plan to get people into space (literally, that's what CCP wants). --- Join BH-DL Skills
Burnharder	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:47:00 - [244] Originally by: flakeys CCP wants the game to be as it is , so don't complain. Either deal/ live with it or stop your subscript.I did the last one with my 3 accounts just as a few good mates of mine because we are fed up with it. It's a free world out there.... Not quite true. If you go OTT with current game mechanics, they will be changed/nerfed. Simple as that. It's happened many times before. If this continues for a considerable period of time, that's exactly what I expect will happen.
Hey You Destructive Influence Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:51:00 - [245] Originally by: Relaed Is it wrong? What do you folks think? No. I think you should stop posting stupid threads. What is going on? People having fun maybe? EvE Being all that it can be? You are not safe in EvE. Anywhere. Not even in 1.0 system. Dont afk mine in empire. Dont drive haulers afk with billions in it. Etc. __________________________________ We Ride Together We Die Together We Few, We Happy Few...
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.03 10:57:00 - [246] Originally by: cal nereus Could be that the insurance companies are subsidized a fixed amount per contract, so they have an incentive to make as many contracts as possible. The ones doing the subsidizing are the same people in government who are trying to get people to leave the planets and join the pod-pilot culture in outer space, even if it yields a net financial loss. It could all be part of a long-term plan to get people into space (literally, that's what CCP wants). This. That's the problem with trying to draw RL parallels; there is always a way to reason around it. The insurance system is fine because people are afraid enough of losing their ships. Goons are an exception to the that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 11:09:00 - [247] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 05:15:19 The NPC factions do not use a literal NBSI system, but it's closer to that than anything else. Neutrals are not actively hunted, but the NPC factions only do the absolute minimum to protect you. In this case, CONCORD blows up the attacker's ship and gives you kill rights on them. Any harsher punishment would be reserved for attacks on allies of the NPCs, something the Hulk pilots are clearly not. And yes, I know what insurance is, I am not an idiot. I'm talking about the system in EVE. If EVE actually obeyed real-world business rules, the insurance companies would have been bankrupt long before this little incident. Even ignoring suicide gankers completely, they'd still be bankrupt just from general combat. Since insurance is still offered, we must conclude that there is just something strange about the EVE markets, and the insurance company has a very profitable secret. Now, this means two things: 1) Covering suicide gankers makes perfect sense. If full insurance is profitable for the insurance company for whatever magical reason, it doesn't matter whether the ship is destroyed by CONCORD or by legal combat. Refusing to cover suicide gankers means turning down profitable insurance sales, something completely out of character for EVE's "profit at costs" ethical system. 2) Covering Goonswarm makes perfect sense. They are not attacking the insurance company, so covering them is profitable. In fact, covering them is MORE profitable than covering your average industrial pilot, because they know Goonswarm will be back again and again to buy more insurance. Why would the insurance company turn down easy profit because some other NPCs have a bad opinion of Goonswarm? Logical from start to finish. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.03 11:13:00 - [248] Originally by: cal nereus Could be that the insurance companies are subsidized a fixed amount per contract, so they have an incentive to make as many contracts as possible. The ones doing the subsidizing are the same people in government who are trying to get people to leave the planets and join the pod-pilot culture in outer space, even if it yields a net financial loss. It could all be part of a long-term plan to get people into space (literally, that's what CCP wants). Following this train of thought further, lets compare the governing bodies with real life America. The people in government are the same people on the boards of the companies drilling oil and making weapons, so any war for oil is good for them. Weapons and equipment get sold, price of oil goes up due to one supply becoming a war zone and there you have it, profit in motion. Same thing?
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 11:37:00 - [249] Originally by: El'Niaga Crybaby whining for CCP to make the nasty men go away As more miners get ganked, and either stop mining or raise their prices to cover the risk, mineral prices will rise. Consequently so will ship prices. As ship prices rise, suiciding becomes less profitable. Soon an equilibrium is reached where the marginal cost of suiciding a ship becomes greater than the expected reward of ganking a hulk. If ship prices don't rise, then it implies that either: (1) This latest escapade while creating a lot of forum tears, is insignificant in the greater EvE economy. (2) That hi-sec miners are't as vital to that economy as some of them are claiming. (3) Both of the above. For those miners pinning their hopes on an "Alliance P" style nerf, remember that it took CCP 6 months to do that. Mal's advice: stop crying to CCP because you don't understand (or just plain won't accept) that YOUR SHIP IS AT RISK THE INSTANT YOU UNDOCK, and take the very minimal steps required to protect yourself. If people can successfully and profitably mine in 0.0, with no CONCORD, no faction police and not even security penalties for attackers, then how in the name of all things fail can you guys not manage it in empire which has all of those advantages. Jesus here's one I'll throw out for free: USE THEIR OWN TECHNIQUES AGAINST THEM. You can create a reasonable T1 cruiser combat alt in a couple of weeks (thorax, blackbird, rupture, rifter, kestrel, punisher, whatever ships are cheap and effective). Create an NPC miners intel channel, and put your alts into a new corp. Have that corp wardec goonswarm. Scour hi-sec for goon noobs and haulers and goonswarm them right back. Insure your cruisers so they're 'free'. (In fact you can mine the minerals for the ships and the mods, so you will make a profit every time you lose one - double win! You don't need skills, you don't need tactics, you don't need to be very good at PvP: you just need numbers. Fly around in mobs of 30-50+. There are thousands of hi-sec miners - at least as many as goonswarm has active players - and you're all in empire, whereas the majority of goons are in 0.0. Your locust-horde of disposable T1 cruiser alts could scour empire clean of goons in a few days: they'll either have to withdraw from empire or break off from fighting BoB & co. If they do come to empire in force, no problem: every time you lose a ship, you're making a profit anyway, and if they really kick your ass, just dock up and don't log your combat alt. Properly fitted combat ships are much too expensive to suicide so you can probably go back to mining - just have a few scouts in cloakers keep an eye on the goon fleets and relay their position to your intel channel. If goons disperse to start ganking your mining ships, dock up and log your mineswarm alts again and kill them in brutally unfair 50 vs 7 fights. Let me repeat: you would not need lots of PvP skillpoints - goons have proved that. You would not need to be very experienced - goons have proved that. You would not care about losses of disposable, insured, T1-fitted frigates and cruisers - goons have proved that. You only need numbers and the will to close, lock, point and fire - goons have proved that. Now given that what I have outlined is provably achievable, why on earth should CCP lift a finger to do for you what you won't even try to do for yourselves? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
RagnarH Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.03 11:40:00 - [250] 2 Words. Exhumer BPO. By killing all those exhumers they are increasing the demand for them, therefor the price will go up. Simple as that. -------------------------- For your termination of Lord Zap we have paid you the bounty that was set to his head: 15,817,032 ISK

Jean Curtien	Posted - 2008.03.03 11:46:00 - [251] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Decent real life parallel This is good stuff. The big empires should actually encourage this type of behavior because it makes them MORE money. Exhumer Pilot buys ship, pays taxes, buys modules, pays taxes, sells minerals, pays taxes. Goon Ganker buys gank ship, pays taxes, buy modules, pays taxes. Both pilots buy insurance. Goon Ganker explodes Exhumer Pilot, CONCORD'ing ensues. Dust settles, both parties buy all new things, pay taxes AGAIN on fresh equipment. BUT WAIT! Some of the loot is still there from the destroyed ships, meaning some of the things that were bought earlier, and had taxes paid on them already, are sold for profit and, you guessed it, taxed again! More money into the public coffers due to resale and retaxing of already purchased/sold merchandise. As to this whole insurance issue, I wish the few arguing with Merin could read, because they do seem to write like educated people. We know how insurance works in real life; that has no basis for comparison here. We're dealing with internet spaceships on the internet. In space. Internet Spaceship Insurance is a whole different animal, and is likely (as has been previously postulated) to be subsidized by one or more government entities, resulting in a net gain for the insurance company on any paid out insurance contract on any ship. In this case insurance works in the exact opposite way it does in real life: The people who DON'T lose ships are the bad risks. More losses = more contracts = greater subsidy = net profit. Hooray for the magic of big government. Finally, I've got to say, the comment about 'mining doesn't make ISK' is hilarious. Not in and of itself, but because of the response it generated. Seriously, do you guys have a rank 50 skill that refines asteroids into money? Because all I get are minerals that I trade to other players for money they have that ALREADY EXISTS. It is not magically created to fulfill the requirements of the transaction. I think there's been a mix-up in the meanings of "creating currency" (the actual creation of new money from thin air), and "makin' that money" (money that already exists changing hands in exchange for goods/services). Okay, all important points touched on, props to goons, props to Merin, props to me for not being stupid enough to mine in an exhumer in these conditions, props to killboards for letting people who aren't fools find out where to mine. Also, Angry Industry People: Can I have your 'roids?
Dreiden Kisada GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 11:49:00 - [252] Originally by: Malcanis goonswarm them right back. Insure your cruisers so they're 'free'. (In fact you can mine the minerals for the ships and the mods, so you will make a profit every time you lose one - double win! You don't need skills, you don't need tactics, you don't need to be very good at PvP: you just need numbers. Fly around in mobs of 30-50+. Let me repeat: you would not need lots of PvP skillpoints - goons have proved that. You would not need to be very experienced - goons have proved that. You would not care about losses of disposable, insured, T1-fitted frigates and cruisers - goons have proved that. You only need numbers and the will to close, lock, point and fire - goons have proved that. This. Do this. Though my brain might pop with such a roll reversal... The preceding statements are my opionion. Not to be confused with anything official.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Cadien Cybernetics	Posted - 2008.03.03 12:00:00 - [253] Well, are they wrong in what they're doing? I don't know. It's well inside of current game mechanics, and as we know that's one of the devs' or GMs' favourite phrases. Do I like what they're doing? Kinda.. because macromining is rampant. Lots of macro'ers get hurt. That's the part I like. Lots of innocent people also get hurt, which is the part I don't like. Of course I would prefer it if they only targeted faceless test-tube babies in NPC corps. Overall it's an interesting 'event'. Like all such occurrences, it will pass. ___________________________________ - Balance is power, guard it well - Please stop using the word 'nerf' Nothing spells 'incompetence' or 'don't take me serious' like those four letters
Empty Vee	Posted - 2008.03.03 12:00:00 - [254] just a suggestion: 1) stop mining&selling ice in empire 2) wait 6 weeks 3) form a fleet 4) go to goon space and kill their barges while they have to mine ice for their pos
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.03 12:12:00 - [255] Originally by: Empty Vee just a suggestion: 1) stop mining&selling ice in empire 2) wait 6 weeks 3) form a fleet 4) go to goon space and kill their barges while they have to mine ice for their pos People like talking about it, why not just do it? Its not like the hulks being ganked belong to carebears with zero concept of pvp....oh wait.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 12:19:00 - [256] Plz kill more carebears they are cute when tehy wine on the forum and maybe they will grow a pair of balls and go to 0.0 or lowsec ktnkxbai
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.03 12:23:00 - [257] Nothing wrong with this at all.It's all legal and to top it all,really funny to see people that spend their entire Eve life operating without any risk at all suddenly having to buck up their ideas and start playing Eve rather than an afk mining simulator. I would love to see empire descend into anarchy and chaos. Only the strong will survive.Everyone else is just fodder for the Blood God. ps I sold another exhumer.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 12:28:00 - [258] Some practical advice. Set Goonfleet to -5 standings, tweak your Overview so that ppl with -5 show up with a red minus in local. Now. Keep local open. Scroll through periodically to scan for red minuses. Anytime local pop jumps, you scan for hostiles. Don't mine from the warp-in point. Move to the edge and mine from there. That way if they warp in on you, they're at least 20-30 kliks out, so you have time to warp out, especially if you're... Aligned. Align to a celestial object. A planet. A gate. A station. Anything. Align to it, so if necessary you can warp away. If you're a miner you REALLY should consider joining a 0.0 entity, most of em would love to have you, the money's way better, and the physical risks are comparable to highsec mining. Put it this way, you're already getting ganked in highsec for a crummy 3 mil an hour. If you're gonna get ganked, do it for 25 mil an hour. Ya dig? Also wouldn't it be a form of poetic justice to end up supplying minerals to an alliance that's killing Goons? The only reason they're coming after you is they're frustrated fighting BoB. Its like the guy who gets whooped by another guy in a bar, and goes home to beat his wife.
AndrewRyan	Posted - 2008.03.03 12:50:00 - [259] "Miners should mine in 0.0 mot hide in high sec with minimum risk" The goons should be killing barges in 0.0 not hiding in high sec with minimum risk "Goonswarm are facing risks they can be wardecced" Miners in player corps face the same wardec risk The arguments everyone's using just justify this are applicable in reverse, not that I'm against it but just pointing out the arguments cut both ways. ========================================= A Man chooses, a slave obeys.
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.03.03 13:20:00 - [260] Edited by: flakeys on 03/03/2008 13:25:12 Originally by: Nasta443 Plz kill more carebears they are cute when tehy wine on the forum and maybe they will grow a pair of balls and go to 0.0 or lowsec ktnkxbai Ever considered some people don't sit in empire semi afk mining/hauling because they are too scared of low sec?When i didn't have a job , wife and kid i played alllll day and night.I have lived in 0.0 at those times. Nowadays if i can only game if i need to stay behind the computer my playtime is limited to what...20 minutes a day tops?And i know there are a lot of older players like me.Those are the ones that get fedd up with this and just cancel the sub and move.We don't play a game to get the 'i-win'-option.We don't cry over loosing a ship.We DO get fedd up with not being able to mine/npc/trade without some bored suicideganker coming along.We are here to relax after a day off a nagging boss/wife/kid or whatever . I can bet you you would cry harder over loosing a capship then i would tough boy...It's not the loss that makes this suicideganking stupid for me and a lot of other 'carebears'...it's about not being able to play a few hours a night just for fun without keeping your eye on the screen all the time.The suicidesquad costed me 2bille in assets over just a week time but that didn't hurt my isk or business in any way.What it did hurt was my fun in this game to log on at night.Yes i know i can avoid it by being behind the comp all the time.Yes i know i can avoid it by not setting autopilot on in empire.There are many ways to avoid it but in the end all i want out of this game is to be able to talk with the wife , watch some tv in between and have a lill ingame fun.Now the choice is forced between these and i choose rl above the game then. As mentioned earlier people are free to do what they want and if GOONS/TRI or any other suicidesquad wants to blow up the miners/npcers etc good for them so this is not meant as a crypost.It's for people like the one i quoted in the hope...and it's a small one... that they will realise why some people are carebears in thsi game and don't see the fun in the new playstyles used. NO one in this thread and the other threads who's saying :blow up the carebears etc seems to think about what i just said.But hey no prob...wait till the day your playtime is going down by a lot....let's see how much fun your having then if the same type of gamestyle is forced upon you.And MAN i hope it does....

Rassalon Simessa	Posted - 2008.03.03 13:49:00 - [261] Originally by: AndrewRyan "Miners should mine in 0.0 mot hide in high sec with minimum risk" The goons should be killing barges in 0.0 not hiding in high sec with minimum risk "Goonswarm are facing risks they can be wardecced" Miners in player corps face the same wardec risk The arguments everyone's using just justify this are applicable in reverse, not that I'm against it but just pointing out the arguments cut both ways. But they really do not reverse well, I suppose on face value they do, but in reality they do not. First off, the majority of empire based industrial capacity is small corps. And this is a unilateral action by an alliance of thousands. A small corp has no recourse- they aren't going to go to war against a massive alliance. Second, the goon gankers are (at least in some cases) de-corping so as not to be detected at system entry. So a negative standing set does not help in detection. So really, an empire player has no recourse other than to hook up with a 0.0 alliance and be defended in that manner- this is of course under current game mechanics. Many players however tend to favor empire life. So if the term "terrorism" applies to the current goon action, then what would be the response of the sovereign state where the terrorism occurred? Well, if the Gallente federation acted like a real government, they would perhaps do things like make an alliance that holds sovereignty KOS with denied docking rights for terrorist activities. Terrorism isn't a law enforcement issue, so it shouldn't be dealt with by using law enforcement penalties. However, since the goons (at least in some cases) are decorping to avoid detection by standings set, enforcement of something like this becomes a problem. So in essence it doesn't break the current rules of the game, but it may change the rules for joining/leaving alliances and/or change the rules that sov holding alliances must adhere to. After all, conducting terrorist activities in another government's space is an act of war- regardless of the corp being ganked. Hello, factional warfare.
Gefex Genco Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.03 13:50:00 - [262] eheh, this thread is so full of win. Its almost as funny as smartbombing the undocking ports in Jita
Rassalon Simessa	Posted - 2008.03.03 13:56:00 - [263] Originally by: flakeys NO one in this thread and the other threads who's saying :blow up the carebears etc seems to think about what i just said.But hey no prob...wait till the day your playtime is going down by a lot....let's see how much fun your having then if the same type of gamestyle is forced upon you.And MAN i hope it does.... Ya but dude.... you're missing the point. Many of these people will probably never have real life commitments like work or family. I've always felt that EVE was a unique game in that how you play EVE directly reflects how you live life. It's the great divisor- if you want to find out what someone's character actually is- give them an EVE account and check in three months later. It will turn a pastor into a pirate or a criminal into a carebear.
Sinder Ohm Infinite Improbability Inc Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2008.03.03 14:20:00 - [264] Hey goonies keep up the good work I lubz you I think I am actually slowly starting to "get" the goons after a few of them joined our TS and started singing "little bee", playing a fine rendetion of "sunshine lollypop" and generally talking trash (funny trash I almost fell off my chair laughing)
Vymorna Grom Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 14:22:00 - [265] As long as the TOS/EULA is not being violated, all is fair in love and war. It's called the changing balance of power, shifted by war and politics. There will be winners, there will be losers. The point is, CHANGE is inevitable. Makes no difference whether Goonfleet is the agent of change. New reality: carebears arming themselves, learning how to mine in packs, more mining "fleets" with strong support/escort elements. Done. A few months from now, this might change yet again. You all wanted a sandbox game with as much realism as possible while enjoying some fantasy fulfillment, didn't you? So when the game becomes CHALLENGING you start whining? Sit down, put pen to paper, talk to your corpmates, talk to your fellow miners, and work out and execute a PLAN. I can't believe the OP wants to actually petition for these "losses."
Bart ForHire	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:07:00 - [266] Edited by: Bart ForHire on 03/03/2008 15:08:17 Originally by: Vymorna Grom As long as the TOS/EULA is not being violated, all is fair in love and war. It's called the changing balance of power, shifted by war and politics. There will be winners, there will be losers. The point is, CHANGE is inevitable. Makes no difference whether Goonfleet is the agent of change. New reality: carebears arming themselves, learning how to mine in packs, more mining "fleets" with strong support/escort elements. Done. A few months from now, this might change yet again. You all wanted a sandbox game with as much realism as possible while enjoying some fantasy fulfillment, didn't you? So when the game becomes CHALLENGING you start whining? Sit down, put pen to paper, talk to your corpmates, talk to your fellow miners, and work out and execute a PLAN. I can't believe the OP wants to actually petition for these "losses." The Biggest Lossers in this game are the players, To have to play with players like you. Pirates are Jerks, and not one wants to play a game with a bunch of jerks. Every other MMO has learned this but CCP never will. This is a game that should be able to be played with out every becoming a Pirate, but that will never happen. CCP loves the pirates in the game, that is why we have 20-40K players on-line instead of 300K and the lag problems fix. CCP will never Learn untill someone else come out with a Sci-Fi game that is Good. Then they will learn by the game closing.
Burnharder	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:13:00 - [267] Originally by: Vymorna Grom New reality: carebears arming themselves, learning how to mine in packs, more mining "fleets" with strong support/escort elements. Done. A few months from now, this might change yet again. You Sir, are being unrealistic. The point about Goons is that yes, they can do whatever in Empire and it's all within game mechanics and all within the rules, however, at the point at which it stops being in the spirit of the rules and is continued past the point at which it's just a bit of fun, CCP will smack it down with the nerf bat. I don't know how long you've been in the game, but I've seen this kind of thing happen many times before, with the perpetrators heading to the forums as if they are the first ever to do it (you know the, "look at me everybody!" kind of vanity postings we are getting a lot of from Goons recently) and the victims doing the same (but opposite). Like I say, if it continues or expands, it'll be stopped by game changes - and I get the impression nobody wants that. This is why I think "pirates" (yarr) often are their own worst enemies.
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:16:00 - [268] Originally by: Bart ForHire This is a game that should be able to be played with out every becoming a Pirate, but that will never happen. CCP loves the pirates in the game, that is why we have 20-40K players on-line instead of 300K and the lag problems fix. CCP will never Learn untill someone else come out with a Sci-Fi game that is Good. Then they will learn by the game closing. Yeah, hold your breath Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Sethra Levode Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:20:00 - [269] Got to think about this topic this weekend when I brought up the market to sell my current stash of alloyed tritanium bars. I saw that the market price had easily doubled. I speculate that an urge to put a hurting on macro farmers is one of the reasons. My underlying speculation is that a good number within the GOONSWARM fleet are producers of cargo rigs. The resurgence of farmers plus a drop in cargo rig production may be a spur to go and blow up a good number of cargo rig wearing Hulks. These hulks also have a potential to be isk farmers. Just a random thought, from someone that thinks like that on occasion. Sethra
Agent Li Caldari Galactic Defence Consortium BLACKHAWK FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:22:00 - [270] This goonswarm thing would be far more comical if they just took one night, and suicide ganked everyone in Jita for a few hours. Every kind of ship - not just exhumers. ------------------ Let me show you around. That's my lab table, and this is my workstool. And over there is my intergalactic spaceship. And here's where I keep assorted lengths of wire.

Bart ForHire	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:26:00 - [271] Originally by: Rassalon Simessa But they really do not reverse well, I suppose on face value they do, but in reality they do not. First off, the majority of empire based industrial capacity is small corps. And this is a unilateral action by an alliance of thousands. A small corp has no recourse- they aren't going to go to war against a massive alliance. Second, the goon gankers are (at least in some cases) de-corping so as not to be detected at system entry. So a negative standing set does not help in detection. So really, an empire player has no recourse other than to hook up with a 0.0 alliance and be defended in that manner- this is of course under current game mechanics. Many players however tend to favor empire life. So if the term "terrorism" applies to the current goon action, then what would be the response of the sovereign state where the terrorism occurred? Well, if the Gallente federation acted like a real government, they would perhaps do things like make an alliance that holds sovereignty KOS with denied docking rights for terrorist activities. Terrorism isn't a law enforcement issue, so it shouldn't be dealt with by using law enforcement penalties. However, since the goons (at least in some cases) are decorping to avoid detection by standings set, enforcement of something like this becomes a problem. So in essence it doesn't break the current rules of the game, but it may change the rules for joining/leaving alliances and/or change the rules that sov holding alliances must adhere to. After all, conducting terrorist activities in another government's space is an act of war- regardless of the corp being ganked. Hello, factional warfare. Well Said. Most corps in empire space are <15 players with only 4-6 on at a time. Small corps like this can not survie in 0.0, and can not defended against gank squads. so again the truth is Fight or stop mining. Fight or leave. A bully with a smile and say he is doing you a favor(which is a lie) is a bully.
Wensbane Amarr Space Voyagers	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:30:00 - [272] Originally by: Vymorna Grom You all wanted a sandbox game with as much realism as possible while enjoying some fantasy fulfillment, didn't you? Yes we did, so PLEASE, for the love of GOD or whatever deity you all worship (if any), don't turn it into World of Spacecraft - The Return of the Carebear. If people want to play the role of "futuristic kamikaze squads", let them. That's what I love about EVE, it's the ONLY game out there, where you are never 100% safe, just like in real life. And just like in real life, you have to be smart if you want to survive. Surround yourself with the right people and keep your eyes open and ALL will be well. With that said, I'm a casual player myself, and I admit that losing a ship can be a pain, but the truth is that I'll just keep playing and will eventually get a new one! If I'm playing a mission in Command & Conquer and get all of my tanks blown up because I wasn't smart enough, I'll just restart it, collect more resources to build new ones and try again. I certainly don't go to the forums to whine about it, so why should I do it here?
alexadria pendragon	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:41:00 - [273] Hell people love to say well done goon and in there next post complain about bob. Funny thing is that with goon having there gank thing going on they are not having all there people out fighting bob. So that bob guy is going to do what he can to keep it going. (Way to go bob get your opponents to change there targets so you don't need to fight them. Not getting paid if i get popped while doing suiside on a ship well if I want to kill someone that bad I'll do it even if I loose isk but $hit if you get a few frigs with losts of dps you can kill a hulk easy and you loose what thre mil and tehy loose like 150 mil? Sounds to me like if your collecting isk damage pro and con the gankers got it made no matter what. If goon wants to kill macro miners cool i like doing that myself but to just go kill people becouse tehy are mining with a hulk is fragged. Hold them for ransom thats a way to still let tehm know that they are not safe and who knows you might even recrute some to be your miner pets so you can get ships in your fights. I know slam my ideas down becouse I don't know $hit about alliance politics but you know what if people really like the game they wouldn't make those who just like to sit and play in the dirt lives such a pain thats the can tippers job.
FastJack316	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:50:00 - [274] Edited by: FastJack316 on 03/03/2008 15:50:39 Originally by: Malcanis Let me repeat: you would not need lots of PvP skillpoints - goons have proved that. You would not need to be very experienced - goons have proved that. You would not care about losses of disposable, insured, T1-fitted frigates and cruisers - goons have proved that. You only need numbers and the will to close, lock, point and fire - goons have proved that. Now given that what I have outlined is provably achievable, why on earth should CCP lift a finger to do for you what you won't even try to do for yourselves? THIS, SERIOUSLY. Jihadswarm is not a lot of guys. Most of us are busy getting blown up a dozen times a month fighting bob, so its really only a couple dozen or so people bopping off to go allah ackbar. So if you really, really hate this then make a Miner Protection Agency corp or something and start recruiting each other's combat alts, so you don't have to make all of your little independent corps wardec but can do it centrally. Make a seperate security channel in-game for miners to join regardless of corp and report goon movement in. You can make combat alts that can fly tackling combat frigates with zero training time and just ***** murder independent jihadswarm ships with weight of numbers. Not only is this feasible, this is exactly what goonswarm did when it got started to great success; kill a bunch of**gots in battleships and twinked cruisers with disposable ships piloted by newbies with zero combat experience.
Rassalon Simessa	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:53:00 - [275] Originally by: Bart ForHire Well Said. Most corps in empire space are <15 players with only 4-6 on at a time. Small corps like this can not survie in 0.0, and can not defended against gank squads. so again the truth is Fight or stop mining. Fight or leave. A bully with a smile and say he is doing you a favor(which is a lie) is a bully. Thanks. I also failed to mention and important point. While some in this thread have said things like "get a fleet together to guard you"- it's obvious to someone who has actually played the game that this will not work. In empire your guard-fleet cannot fire on a possibly hostile ship without being popped themselves. Once the possibly hostile ship actually becomes hostile, it will pop the mining op (in the case of smartbombs) faster than defenders can react- and then the hostile is popped by Concord. So there really is no recourse unless the corp in question has the military to go to war with the goons. So it does become an exploit in that there is no recourse at all. The offender is already destroyed, so kill rights have no bearing either. But then again- that is the goal of terrorism.
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:54:00 - [276] A sexy Cylon once said "Death becomes a learning experience." While I dont agree with what goonswarm is doing I do think that its needed for miners as a lesson. As a miner myself I once had my ship blown up by a pirate. The end result is that it taught me a stern lesson about life in eve as a miner which was: - DO NOT LET YOUR GUARD DOWN FOR A SECOND -. If you get comfortable you get lazy. If you get lazy you get sloppy. If you get sloppy you dont realize the gun is pointed at your head until the bullet is exiting the skull and your out 3-130 million isk. The purpertrator doesnt care if it was your first mining barge with all your savings sunk into it or your third hulk with another three sitting in their packaging waiting to be assembled and the sooner you accept this fact the sooner you learn how to think in this game. Adapt. Have your CEO set standing on GoonSwarm, map their kill board, if you have to, move to another region or even empire. Instead of mining go run some missions to get the rep of your local global corp up to 6.75 for perfect refine. This is just a storm that is eventually going to dissapate either due to Goonswarm getting bored or unable to continue doing it or CCP eventually stepping in. In the mean time adapt. EvE offers the player so much besides guns and rocks, go explore them.
FastJack316	Posted - 2008.03.03 15:57:00 - [277] Originally by: Rassalon Simessa So there really is no recourse unless the corp in question has the military to go to war with the goons. I swear to god I get like five alliance mails a week from random corps I've never even heard of wardeccing on goons and we never do anything about it. What are we going to do to a corp of miner alts in disposable frigates scattered across empire? Pos-spam jita?
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:02:00 - [278] Originally by: FastJack316 Originally by: Rassalon Simessa So there really is no recourse unless the corp in question has the military to go to war with the goons. I swear to god I get like five alliance mails a week from random corps I've never even heard of wardeccing on goons and we never do anything about it. What are we going to do to a corp of miner alts in disposable frigates scattered across empire? Pos-spam jita? Exactly. We are not going to even give a second look at the wardec mail. Giving you the wardec will allow you to attack those suiciding you, and dumb goons who are flying around in empire. That's about it, we are not gonna send some 200+ man op up into empire to cleanse you, because really, how stupid does that sound? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:04:00 - [279] The Goonswarm have made the appropriate sacrifices at the Temple of Grief, and auguries of carebear bones show that this new initiative is indeed blessed. The winds of grief are at your back, Goonswarm - may the belts of Empire clog with Hulk wrecks and carebear corpses for months to come.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:11:00 - [280] Originally by: FastJack316 Edited by: FastJack316 on 03/03/2008 15:50:39 Originally by: Malcanis Let me repeat: you would not need lots of PvP skillpoints - goons have proved that. You would not need to be very experienced - goons have proved that. You would not care about losses of disposable, insured, T1-fitted frigates and cruisers - goons have proved that. You only need numbers and the will to close, lock, point and fire - goons have proved that. Now given that what I have outlined is provably achievable, why on earth should CCP lift a finger to do for you what you won't even try to do for yourselves? THIS, SERIOUSLY. Jihadswarm is not a lot of guys. Most of us are busy getting blown up a dozen times a month fighting bob, so its really only a couple dozen or so people bopping off to go allah ackbar. So if you really, really hate this then make a Miner Protection Agency corp or something and start recruiting each other's combat alts, so you don't have to make all of your little independent corps wardec but can do it centrally. Make a seperate security channel in-game for miners to join regardless of corp and report goon movement in. You can make combat alts that can fly tackling combat frigates with zero training time and just ***** murder independent jihadswarm ships with weight of numbers. Not only is this feasible, this is exactly what goonswarm did when it got started to great success; kill a bunch of**gots in battleships and twinked cruisers with disposable ships piloted by newbies with zero combat experience. Additional benefit: they can keep this structure up and use it to deal with other threats after goons get bored. It's a zero-cost effort, apart from keeping a single office rented somewhere so more alts can join. No corp or alliance in the game can take lightly the threat of hundreds of attackers who are completely indifferent to their survival so long as they get the enemy. I can promise that any mineswarm-protected corp will be left severely alone by everyone except perhaps NPC corp alts. (And then we might start to see carebears singing a different tune about experienced players hiding in NPC corps...) CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Rassalon Simessa	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:13:00 - [281] Originally by: FastJack316 Originally by: Rassalon Simessa So there really is no recourse unless the corp in question has the military to go to war with the goons. I swear to god I get like five alliance mails a week from random corps I've never even heard of wardeccing on goons and we never do anything about it. What are we going to do to a corp of miner alts in disposable frigates scattered across empire? Pos-spam jita? Nice selective quote. In every other PVP encounter in the game there is either a route of escape or the chance for winning combat. With a suicide gank there is no recourse other than war. Besides- you guys are decorping to avoid detection. You can't war dec a newb corp. Even if the miners banded together- they could not defend against decorped goons. So your suggestion- well, has no worth. Unless industry has no value and the game goes totally pew pew. Which would last about a week.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:16:00 - [282] http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills Do exactly who is decorping? Because all those kills seem to be in GS to me. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Rassalon Simessa	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:17:00 - [283] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: FastJack316 Originally by: Rassalon Simessa So there really is no recourse unless the corp in question has the military to go to war with the goons. I swear to god I get like five alliance mails a week from random corps I've never even heard of wardeccing on goons and we never do anything about it. What are we going to do to a corp of miner alts in disposable frigates scattered across empire? Pos-spam jita? Exactly. We are not going to even give a second look at the wardec mail. Giving you the wardec will allow you to attack those suiciding you, and dumb goons who are flying around in empire. That's about it, we are not gonna send some 200+ man op up into empire to cleanse you, because really, how stupid does that sound? Except that you are lying. The gank squads are DECORPED. Those are the one's I've seen.
FastJack316	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:18:00 - [284] Originally by: Rassalon Simessa Besides- you guys are decorping to avoid detection. You can't war dec a newb corp. Even if the miners banded together- they could not defend against decorped goons. No they are not decorping, check the killboard. http://www.jihadswarm.com/
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:18:00 - [285] No, they're not wrong. What they're doing is completely legal and they are free to do it. You could argue that obviously an exhumer shouldn't be vulnerable to suicide ganking by a single throw away battlecruiser while performing its intended function of mining, but that's a whole separate discussions.
duckmonster GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:18:00 - [286] Edited by: duckmonster on 03/03/2008 16:18:58 SECRET KNOWLEDGE ITT Jihadswarm has been ordered not to suicide attack in Minmitar space. If you mine there, you are safe. If you mine in other areas, specifically Ammar, you will be destroyed. Jihadswarm is committed to protecting the Emperors Astroid belts from roid poachers. Jihadswarm is about love, not honour, or honor. SECRET KNOWLEDGE ENDS HERE -----------
Rimhawk Caldari Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:33:00 - [287] I'm wondering about something since I haven't mined in ages... I'm not even sure how it works anymore (they changed it a few times over the past years). So: If I'm mining in a tanked hulk and in a gang with a corpmate who is there with a combat ship and people shoot me, can my corpmate then shoot them as well? Or does he have to wait for me to return fire? If the answer is that your corpmate can't shoot them, I would consider is improper application of game mechanics and the 'defend yourself' argument is null and void. If your gangmates can shoot the agressors however, or help to tank you, I don't see a problem, just take a high-DPS guard or logistics ship along and watch the concord BBQ. :P .
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:35:00 - [288] As far as I know, you can heal them, but you can't directly attack the agressor as without a wardec, agression timers and kill rights are personal. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Zorlag Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:36:00 - [289] Originally by: Rassalon Simessa Except that you are lying. The gank squads are DECORPED. Those are the one's I've seen. Ha ha, you're dumb, look how dumb you are
Chloey Rans	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:39:00 - [290] Remove insurance payouts for ship losses due to criminal acts and let EvE's great economy sort things out by itselve.

Rimhawk Caldari Vengeance 8 Interceptors	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:39:00 - [291] Originally by: An Anarchyyt As far as I know, you can heal them, but you can't directly attack the agressor as without a wardec, agression timers and kill rights are personal. Well that's something but many (new) people can't fly logistics ships, so the newer people couldn't defend themselves that well if they are in your gang. Are they also going after covetors btw or just hulks? But as long as gangmates cannot help to defend you, I'll consider it to be an exploit or a very bad game mechanic. If CCP gave corpmates the ability to defend gangpmates (or rather corpmates) that are under attack then I wouldn't be bothered by this at all. Not that I am that bothered that much right now, I don't mine. .
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:47:00 - [292] Originally by: Rimhawk I'm wondering about something since I haven't mined in ages... I'm not even sure how it works anymore (they changed it a few times over the past years). So: If I'm mining in a tanked hulk and in a gang with a corpmate who is there with a combat ship and people shoot me, can my corpmate then shoot them as well? Or does he have to wait for me to return fire? If the answer is that your corpmate can't shoot them, I would consider is improper application of game mechanics and the 'defend yourself' argument is null and void. If your gangmates can shoot the agressors however, or help to tank you, I don't see a problem, just take a high-DPS guard or logistics ship along and watch the concord BBQ. :P When they attack your hulk and get a GCC anybody can attack them. Your hulk won't be flashy red so your gangmates can help you all they want with no flag. Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:52:00 - [293] Originally by: Rimhawk Originally by: An Anarchyyt As far as I know, you can heal them, but you can't directly attack the agressor as without a wardec, agression timers and kill rights are personal. Well that's something but many (new) people can't fly logistics ships, so the newer people couldn't defend themselves that well if they are in your gang. Are they also going after covetors btw or just hulks? But as long as gangmates cannot help to defend you, I'll consider it to be an exploit or a very bad game mechanic. If CCP gave corpmates the ability to defend gangpmates (or rather corpmates) that are under attack then I wouldn't be bothered by this at all. Not that I am that bothered that much right now, I don't mine. You don't need to be flying a T2 Logistics ship. An Osprey works very well indeed as a shield repper, especially if it doesn't need to last too long. Fit a small cap booster with 400s in to keep going for a couple of extra cycles. Same with an Exequeror. With a couple of best named remote shield/armour reppers, these ships can add a remarkable amount of tank. Just have 1 per 4 hulks, keep the hulks fairly close together and have them pre-targetted. As soon as one of your flock starts to take damage, hit the shield reps on it. They're pretty easy to skill for, and heck they can even mine a bit while they're waiting. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:53:00 - [294] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Rimhawk Originally by: An Anarchyyt As far as I know, you can heal them, but you can't directly attack the agressor as without a wardec, agression timers and kill rights are personal. Well that's something but many (new) people can't fly logistics ships, so the newer people couldn't defend themselves that well if they are in your gang. Are they also going after covetors btw or just hulks? But as long as gangmates cannot help to defend you, I'll consider it to be an exploit or a very bad game mechanic. If CCP gave corpmates the ability to defend gangpmates (or rather corpmates) that are under attack then I wouldn't be bothered by this at all. Not that I am that bothered that much right now, I don't mine. You don't need to be flying a T2 Logistics ship. An Osprey works very well indeed as a shield repper, especially if it doesn't need to last too long. Fit a small cap booster with 400s in to keep going for a couple of extra cycles. Same with an Exequeror. With a couple of best named remote shield/armour reppers, these ships can add a remarkable amount of tank. Just have 1 per 4 hulks, keep the hulks fairly close together and have them pre-targetted. As soon as one of your flock starts to take damage, hit the shield reps on it. They're pretty easy to skill for, and heck they can even mine a bit while they're waiting. What he said, or an Exequeror, or the others. And there is one very good way that corpmates can help, and has been said numerous times, a wardec. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 16:53:00 - [295] Originally by: Chloey Rans Remove insurance payouts for ship losses due to criminal acts and let EvE's great economy sort things out by itselve. EvE's great economy will sort things out by itself even if "insurance" is left untouched. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Snoon	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:00:00 - [296] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 04:21:33 Like I said, if you hate the way things are going in EVE, don't just threaten to quit and whine about how nobody helps you. Just quit. And give me your stuff. In fact, give me your character, just to remove any temptation to come back. Assuming your character is actually worth buying, I will give you a month's subscription in the MMORPG of your choice in exchange. Either back up your threat and take my offer, or stop making it. The simple fact is, you will not be missed. Even if you convince every other carebear to quit, none of you will be missed. The mission-runners add literally nothing to the game outside of their subscription fee. The miners and manufacturers will be replaced. First, you won't even get all of them to quit, plenty of people with mining/production skills are happy to kill people as well. And once the competition is removed, the rest of us will train production alts, and we go right back to business as usual. Yeah, ok, prices will go up, but who cares. If you're in a big alliance, you have dedicated industrial support, and do not even notice the change. If you're a solo/small group PvPer, your kills-to-profit total doesn't change at all. If it takes you a 10-1 kill ratio to make a profit, if you double all prices, you double both your own ships AND the loot you get off your victims. Result: still a 10-1 kill ratio required. If you're a casual PvPer who does some PvE to fund some PvP on the side, your losses get more expensive, but all of your PvE activities pay more. Really, the only people who get hurt by you leaving are your fellow carebears! lol this made me laugh. Erm, if everyone quit then Eve wouldnt exist, then you would have to play hello kitty online . Im sure CCP would #miss# their subscription fee
Vymorna Grom Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:03:00 - [297] I don't have to actually agree with GS's actions in order to concede that those actions are legitimate. Do I like the goonies? Not really. Am I tempted to pew-pew them now and then? Sure. Do I think they have a right to stake a claim as much as I do? Hell yes. Again, when an alleged exploit works in your favour (and hurts another) we don't see the beneficiary posting about that and pleading for balance. When another alleged exploit hurts you (and benefits someone else), you (the so-called victim) is all over the boards engaging in major whinage. The reality is, is that all activities that are not contrary to the TOS/EULA are legitimate. If you don't like a particular action, formulate an appropriate reaction or response to the situation - within the confines of the game. It's all fair. Devise a solution. Complaining on the forums is not a solution. It's both unrealistic in terms of having to go outside the game, and worse, it's an admission of defeat. No longer safe to mine in high-sec? Move operations elsewhere. Perhaps in the near future it will be safe once again and you can move back. Then again, if you're inflexible and not open to change, and not willing to sit down and plan (read: THINK) out a solution, then you'll get eaten and spat out. EVE is a harsh world, which seems to be a salient feature of the game from day 1. Deal with it. Can CCP change this alleged exploit that exists because of clever, calculating players? Sure they can. But it will be due to players deciding to go outside the parameters of the EVE universe (easy way out) in order to plead for an imposed solution, because the EVE universe has bested them. Quite a shame.
Dramaticus GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:06:00 - [298] Originally by: Rassalon Simessa Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: FastJack316 Originally by: Rassalon Simessa So there really is no recourse unless the corp in question has the military to go to war with the goons. I swear to god I get like five alliance mails a week from random corps I've never even heard of wardeccing on goons and we never do anything about it. What are we going to do to a corp of miner alts in disposable frigates scattered across empire? Pos-spam jita? Exactly. We are not going to even give a second look at the wardec mail. Giving you the wardec will allow you to attack those suiciding you, and dumb goons who are flying around in empire. That's about it, we are not gonna send some 200+ man op up into empire to cleanse you, because really, how stupid does that sound? Except that you are lying. The gank squads are DECORPED. Those are the one's I've seen. uh we dont drop corp for this because getting back into GF takes forever since our auth people are lazy as **** Please don't use RL pictuers of players in Sig without permission. - WeatherMan
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:14:00 - [299] Originally by: Snoon Originally by: Merin Ryskin Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 04:21:33 Like I said, if you hate the way things are going in EVE, don't just threaten to quit and whine about how nobody helps you. Just quit. And give me your stuff. In fact, give me your character, just to remove any temptation to come back. Assuming your character is actually worth buying, I will give you a month's subscription in the MMORPG of your choice in exchange. Either back up your threat and take my offer, or stop making it. The simple fact is, you will not be missed. Even if you convince every other carebear to quit, none of you will be missed. The mission-runners add literally nothing to the game outside of their subscription fee. The miners and manufacturers will be replaced. First, you won't even get all of them to quit, plenty of people with mining/production skills are happy to kill people as well. And once the competition is removed, the rest of us will train production alts, and we go right back to business as usual. Yeah, ok, prices will go up, but who cares. If you're in a big alliance, you have dedicated industrial support, and do not even notice the change. If you're a solo/small group PvPer, your kills-to-profit total doesn't change at all. If it takes you a 10-1 kill ratio to make a profit, if you double all prices, you double both your own ships AND the loot you get off your victims. Result: still a 10-1 kill ratio required. If you're a casual PvPer who does some PvE to fund some PvP on the side, your losses get more expensive, but all of your PvE activities pay more. Really, the only people who get hurt by you leaving are your fellow carebears! lol this made me laugh. Erm, if everyone quit then Eve wouldnt exist, then you would have to play hello kitty online . Im sure CCP would #miss# their subscription fee Clue: you are not "everyone". Even if 1000 miners quit, that still leaves 249,000 subs to fund CCP. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Dankaroo	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:15:00 - [300] Sighs and looks around. Whiners to the left of me, mouthy defend yourself players to the right. Look mates its simple really. Goons has nailed my ppl while we were napped with em in the past. Our alliance didnt feel the need to fight back. We left, waited a couple of weeks so our actions woulden't reflect on them, though they have labeled me a loose cannon it's understandable as they try to distance themselves. All of you screaming bloody murder about fighting back need to put your collective isk where your mouths are. I look at goons wars and see two entities fighting them. My angels and another. You want to make a differance then get in touch with me. Otherwise STFU and carebear somewhere else. Right or wrong matters not it's only the will to see something done that makes it real. Have a nice day.

dakari	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:29:00 - [301] Originally by: Chloey Rans Remove insurance payouts for ship losses due to criminal acts and let EvE's great economy sort things out by itselve. yes, please continue with the killing and ganking goonswarm, I love my new 3.2 tritanium prices and I soon hope to be able to charge 5 ISK per pyrite. Thank you goonswarm! As a side note, all you other people who mass buy minerals in high security, it might behoove you to wardec goonswarm enmasse and so you can get your nice cheap minerals back before the costs really explode.
Malaan Tabfassh The Flowing Penguins	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:38:00 - [302] Sorry for not reading all pages, but: I LOVE THIS GAME cause of such actions . If Goonswarm is mighty enough to kill all barges out there (including mine), they shall do. An advice for the people moaning and whining around here: This game has an intro (one of the best intros in game history ever imho), now go check the button "watch intro on next login" and pay attention when it comes to the part about megacooperations.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:40:00 - [303] Deny insurance claims for Concord kills. Sucks we have to go down this path due to rampant abuse of hisec mechanics, but I really see no other option. Hisec is not supposed to be more dangerous than 0.0, for that matter 0.0 is not supposed to be safer than 0.4, the risk/reward is supposed to scale, thats how we protect noobs in this game and ensure that everyone gets a level of risk they are comfortable with, corresponding to an appropriate reward for taking more risks. Eve right now serves %10 of the players at the expense of the other %90. I look forward to a little balance in the game mechanics.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:47:00 - [304] Originally by: Cipher7 Deny insurance claims for Concord kills. Sucks we have to go down this path due to rampant abuse of hisec mechanics, but I really see no other option. Hisec is not supposed to be more dangerous than 0.0, for that matter 0.0 is not supposed to be safer than 0.4, the risk/reward is supposed to scale, thats how we protect noobs in this game and ensure that everyone gets a level of risk they are comfortable with, corresponding to an appropriate reward for taking more risks. Eve right now serves %10 of the players at the expense of the other %90. I look forward to a little balance in the game mechanics. Lets assume for a minute, that your ridiculous rabble is true, where exactly is it said that low-sec is not meant to be more dangrous than 0.0? The purpose of 0.0 is simply that it is player-ruled. That says nothing about how safe or not safe, it is meant to be. If you look at it at the way it is, 0.0 is divided into a high and low-sec type area. High-sec is the area that the empires claim, and protect. Low-sec is the areas that the empires claim, but do not protect, for whatever reason. Any alliance has a base area, which in normal times, is relatively safe. Lots of people around to protect, and hostile incursions generally don't get in there that far. So that is the 0.0 equivalent of high sec. And of course, as these alliances spread out, they can not patrol every single area of their space. These are the areas that are much more empty, have a lot less friendlies, and are also often less desirable, this is the low-sec equivalent of low-sec. Therefore, it is much easier for hostiles and neutrals to hang out in these areas and do whatever they want. So, there is no division that the game is high-sec, low-sec and 0.0. There is high-sec and low-sec as the empire space entity. And then there is the separate division of 0.0 as non-empire, player controlled space. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Vymorna Grom Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 17:56:00 - [305] Originally by: dakari Originally by: Chloey Rans Remove insurance payouts for ship losses due to criminal acts and let EvE's great economy sort things out by itselve. yes, please continue with the killing and ganking goonswarm, I love my new 3.2 tritanium prices and I soon hope to be able to charge 5 ISK per pyrite. Thank you goonswarm! As a side note, all you other people who mass buy minerals in high security, it might behoove you to wardec goonswarm enmasse and so you can get your nice cheap minerals back before the costs really explode. Thank you. Action X gets reaction Y. Beautiful. Wars do have an effect on prices. So who will formulate the appropriate response or reaction in order to either establish balance or swing things in the other direction completely? God I love this game.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:15:00 - [306] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Lets assume for a minute, that your ridiculous rabble is true, where exactly is it said that low-sec is not meant to be more dangrous than 0.0? I dunno, maybe the words in the top left corner of the screen where it says, "SECURITY LEVEL" So higher security is supposed to mean more dangerous right? From the Official Eve Player Guide : Space consists of star systems. Each of these is assigned a security rating, from 0.0 (Lawless) to 1.0 (Secure). You could imagine the EVE galaxy as a flower, where the secure Empire space is the middle of the flower and the outer lawless regions are the leaves. The ultimate goal in EVE is power. It can be power over the market, military dominance, financial power, or political power. These are all achievable in EVE at degrees varying from local system, regional level, or even universe-wide. EVE caters to many different play styles, ranging from the hard core combat commander to the patient miner New Player Protection New characters enter the EVE world in high security areas of space, heavily guarded by police ships and sentry guns. Making Money Mining There are many forms of mining, ranging from solo prospecting to large scale strip mining by industrial corporations. The latter requires considerable planning and coordination, but solo mining does not require much skill or knowledge. That sounds like the perfect job for you! Don't worry; every dashing space hero and galactic corporate mogul had to start somewhere. A suitable system for launching your new mining career should meet the following criteria: * Be 1.0 to 0.8 security.
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:24:00 - [307] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Lets assume for a minute, that your ridiculous rabble is true, where exactly is it said that low-sec is not meant to be more dangrous than 0.0? I dunno, maybe the words in the top left corner of the screen where it says, "SECURITY LEVEL" So higher security is supposed to mean more dangerous right? From the Official Eve Player Guide : Space consists of star systems. Each of these is assigned a security rating, from 0.0 (Lawless) to 1.0 (Secure). You could imagine the EVE galaxy as a flower, where the secure Empire space is the middle of the flower and the outer lawless regions are the leaves. The ultimate goal in EVE is power. It can be power over the market, military dominance, financial power, or political power. These are all achievable in EVE at degrees varying from local system, regional level, or even universe-wide. EVE caters to many different play styles, ranging from the hard core combat commander to the patient miner New Player Protection New characters enter the EVE world in high security areas of space, heavily guarded by police ships and sentry guns. Making Money Mining There are many forms of mining, ranging from solo prospecting to large scale strip mining by industrial corporations. The latter requires considerable planning and coordination, but solo mining does not require much skill or knowledge. That sounds like the perfect job for you! Don't worry; every dashing space hero and galactic corporate mogul had to start somewhere. A suitable system for launching your new mining career should meet the following criteria: * Be 1.0 to 0.8 security. Lol just LOL ...
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:26:00 - [308] Edited by: Cipher7 on 03/03/2008 18:26:47 The core issue : The ultimate goal in EVE is power. It can be power over the market, military dominance, financial power, or political power. CCP claim to have a game for all playstyles, but really there is only 1 playstyle.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:29:00 - [309] Originally by: flakeys Lol just LOL ... Yeah I lol'd too. They should advertise the game with "b*tch we gonna gank you!" because that's really more accurate and honest than "Eve is a world where everybody can pursue their own playstyle blah blah blah."
Vladimir Griftin	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:42:00 - [310] Originally by: Cipher7 Yeah I lol'd too. They should advertise the game with "b*tch we gonna gank you!" because that's really more accurate and honest than "Eve is a world where everybody can pursue their own playstyle blah blah blah." Oh stop being so wet

flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:43:00 - [311] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: flakeys Lol just LOL ... Yeah I lol'd too. They should advertise the game with "b*tch we gonna gank you!" because that's really more accurate and honest than "Eve is a world where everybody can pursue their own playstyle blah blah blah." Yep since that seems to be the only thing the pro-suiciders and us have in common..the sence that eve only is left for those who want to pvp.Why not make it all 0.0 then?
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:44:00 - [312] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Giving you the wardec will allow you to attack those suiciding you, and dumb goons who are flying around in empire. That's about it, we are not gonna send some 200+ man op up into empire to cleanse you, because really, how stupid does that sound? Is that a trick question? Cuz I've heard this story of a 200+ man gang and a saber...
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:44:00 - [313] Originally by: Vladimir Griftin Originally by: Cipher7 Yeah I lol'd too. They should advertise the game with "b*tch we gonna gank you!" because that's really more accurate and honest than "Eve is a world where everybody can pursue their own playstyle blah blah blah." Oh stop being so wet Stop being s·ch a 'one-liner-ass' and just leave a decent commont like others who don't agree with him do.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:49:00 - [314] Originally by: Cipher7 From the Official Eve Player Guide : Hey can you post something about epic massive fleet battles too?
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:51:00 - [315] Originally by: flakeys Ever considered some people don't sit in empire semi afk mining/hauling because they are too scared of low sec?When i didn't have a job , wife and kid i played alllll day and night.I have lived in 0.0 at those times. Nowadays if i can only game if i need to stay behind the computer my playtime is limited to what...20 minutes a day tops?And i know there are a lot of older players like me.Those are the ones that get fedd up with this and just cancel the sub and move. Well then. If you don't have time to play the game you'd be better off canceling. Cuz 20 minutes in eve aint even foreplay. If ccp cared they'd make missions shorter and split rooms across mulitiple part missions so you can actually do something in a more casual way.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:53:00 - [316] Originally by: flakeys Why not make it all 0.0 then? Bingo. Lets cut out the cutesy "sandbox world where all playstyles are possible" crap. Make the whole thing 0.0 and lets do away with the false advertising.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 18:59:00 - [317] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: Cipher7 From the Official Eve Player Guide : Hey can you post something about epic massive fleet battles too? I will, just as soon as epic massive fleet battles become possible.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:02:00 - [318] Originally by: Nasta443 Well then. If you don't have time to play the game you'd be better off canceling. Cuz 20 minutes in eve aint even foreplay. Yeah you're right, I think %90 of Eve should just consider canceling. Because if you're not unemployed and obese, you're just not hardcore enough to hang.
Heavyn	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:20:00 - [319] Edited by: Heavyn on 03/03/2008 19:20:55 I can make this simple for everybody...and even from multiple threads. although I dont like what GS is doing (having been one of the ones that lost) it is fair to say that is allowed until the Gods that be do something. But the simple fact is, as far as I know, I'm the only one paying my sub fees, who the hell are some of you people to tell me to play 'your' game. I play my game....period, and not to please you. So dont tell me (or anyone else that you arent paying for) to come to 0.0, you'd gripe at the overpopulation, and dont tell me (or anyone else your not paying for) to stop being the bad guy...if you do, your an idiot What i'd like to see, quite honestly (and this really is not said out of hostility from losing a hulk, I could care less) is a statement from an actual leader...I'd love to know what the motive is behind it, for the simple fact is, it's unique. Economic? do you have too many BPC's, idle BPO's, moon minerals? I'm tired of reading through 8 pages of peon 'bees' trying to justify that which they probably dont have a clue why they are doing it. Lets hear from the actual minds behind the monster!! oh yea, my views are my own only, I'll admit, it was an alt account that lost the hulk...no views here except my own, and I accept my own consequenses. (bad speller btw.) I'm Heavyn, fear me...someday
Bart ForHire	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:31:00 - [320] Everyone keeps saying to Wardec Goons, but most of their gank squads are quiting corp so they can be seen, so wardec will not help.

FastJack316 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:36:00 - [321] Originally by: Bart ForHire Everyone keeps saying to Wardec Goons, but most of their gank squads are quiting corp so they can be seen, so wardec will not help. This is a complete lie as one glance at the jihadswarm killboard linked several times during the thread including the op will show. Secret info: Goonswarm guys are posting all their kills there because there's a prize for most hulks killed.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:45:00 - [322] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: Cipher7 From the Official Eve Player Guide : Hey can you post something about epic massive fleet battles too? I will, just as soon as epic massive fleet battles become possible. But the official marketing blurb says they already are!
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:49:00 - [323] Edited by: Nasta443 on 03/03/2008 19:50:26 Originally by: Cipher7 Yeah you're right, I think %90 of Eve should just consider canceling. Because if you're not unemployed and obese, you're just not hardcore enough to hang. No employment status or weight gives you the rights to fly in a bubble of invulnerability in empire. Specially not if you are making isks. (Exceptions can be made perhaps if you are morbidly fat and threaten people that you'll send them naked pictures)
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:50:00 - [324] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: flakeys Ever considered some people don't sit in empire semi afk mining/hauling because they are too scared of low sec?When i didn't have a job , wife and kid i played alllll day and night.I have lived in 0.0 at those times. Nowadays if i can only game if i need to stay behind the computer my playtime is limited to what...20 minutes a day tops?And i know there are a lot of older players like me.Those are the ones that get fedd up with this and just cancel the sub and move. Well then. If you don't have time to play the game you'd be better off canceling. Cuz 20 minutes in eve aint even foreplay. If ccp cared they'd make missions shorter and split rooms across mulitiple part missions so you can actually do something in a more casual way. Read up dude i just DID cancel my accounts.And for your reasoning , i was able to play for a few hours at least a night but divide my time in docking/emptying hulk then start back mining and having fun with my son/wife.Now if i need to dock every time something interupts and i need to leave the screen then i'd get the playtime mentioned above.But hey i wouldn't expect any of the schoolboys/unemployed and people who really shouldn't be married and have kids in the first place to understand what i am saying.
dakari	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:53:00 - [325] Originally by: Heavyn Edited by: Heavyn on 03/03/2008 19:20:55 I can make this simple for everybody...and even from multiple threads. although I dont like what GS is doing (having been one of the ones that lost) it is fair to say that is allowed until the Gods that be do something. But the simple fact is, as far as I know, I'm the only one paying my sub fees, who the hell are some of you people to tell me to play 'your' game. I play my game....period, and not to please you. So dont tell me (or anyone else that you arent paying for) to come to 0.0, you'd gripe at the overpopulation, and dont tell me (or anyone else your not paying for) to stop being the bad guy...if you do, your an idiot What i'd like to see, quite honestly (and this really is not said out of hostility from losing a hulk, I could care less) is a statement from an actual leader...I'd love to know what the motive is behind it, for the simple fact is, it's unique. Economic? do you have too many BPC's, idle BPO's, moon minerals? I'm tired of reading through 8 pages of peon 'bees' trying to justify that which they probably dont have a clue why they are doing it. Lets hear from the actual minds behind the monster!! oh yea, my views are my own only, I'll admit, it was an alt account that lost the hulk...no views here except my own, and I accept my own consequenses. (bad speller btw.) I'm Heavyn, fear me...someday Honestly, I'm one of the people who will stick to empire until I can afford to move deeper in. I stopped playing 3 years ago due to the release of WoW, came back about 2 months ago because WoW has gotten boring. 3 years ago I was a miner with a builder alt and at the end of third month I played I was based in 0.2 space in a low traffic route that had a lab that I could research my BPO's and build my stuff.The only problem I had really was moving stuff to 0.5 to sell it but with the amount of money I was making from selling ships and items and the ease at which I got most of the minerals made it a fair trade off to lose a ship every other day. Now that I am back, I have no money and needed to "regear" my characters into hulks and whatnot I am sticking to empire until I have a nice wallet and a few ships to burn through and losing 170mil would not be such a big deal. Way off point, but it's a little bit of background on me, I liked the dodging of pirates and privateers, I liked the feeling of proving myself smarter at the game of cat and mouse than the people who happened to come across me while I was in low security, but as I learned and have read on these forums it's almost the exact same in empire, you have to watch your assets and take precautions. I think what goonswarm is doing is like west virginia hillbillies inbreeding and saying "hey pappy who is also my brother and uncle, how about we go gank us some miners and drive up low grade mineral prices!!". It's a dumb idea and will only make more enemies for them in the long run, not just the miners, but anyone who has to buy large quantities of low grade minerals.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 19:57:00 - [326] Originally by: flakeys Now if i need to dock every time something interupts and i need to leave the screen then i'd get the playtime mentioned above. Welcome to eve. Quote: But hey i wouldn't expect any of the schoolboys/unemployed and people who really shouldn't be married and have kids in the first place to understand what i am saying. I know enough people that have put eve to rest out of real life and family commitments. Sometimes it's the right thing to do. I've also read (on the internets!) some married woman posting complaining that her kids meals interferred with her wow raiding and that they (parents) had managed to minimize disruption by feeding the kids frozen dinners.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:05:00 - [327] Originally by: dakari It's a dumb idea and will only make more enemies for them in the long run, not just the miners, but anyone who has to buy large quantities of low grade minerals. They don't care and are second in the Hate List after bob. And by creating all this racket I wouldn't be surprised if they created another yihad campaign once this is over.
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:09:00 - [328] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: flakeys Now if i need to dock every time something interupts and i need to leave the screen then i'd get the playtime mentioned above. Welcome to eve. Tell me then why was i able to play this game the way i did for years till the suicidegankstars started a month or 4 back with a huge increase with the goons last weeks? Your message should be : WELCOME TO THE NEW EVE ... and no thanks CYA
Dorsnefran II	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:19:00 - [329] And when all the Exhumers are gone who will be doing the mining to supply the market with the necessary raw materials for building the produce. What use is a market that will be so extortionately inflated that no one will be able to afford to buy what few resources are left... Get real ... So Hi Sec is only safer, accepted but indiscriminate terrorist acts should have an equal cost to the ones bringing about the anarchistic exploits of the giant Corps/Alliances ... What say all miners simply stop mining and everyone just PvP their way in to oblivion ... I wonder how long that would take to come about ... one thing for sure it is a certainty if such things go unchecked or at least with a more realistic and timely support from the Concord to even the playing field some.
Ryan Scouse'UK omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:26:00 - [330] Originally by: Syniztur Originally by: Dimagus While not politically correct, here is a chart explaining the risk in EVE: 0.0 = International Waters 0.1-0.4 = Middle East 0.5-1.0 = US High School Infer the comparisons for pirates and suicide gankers at your own discretion. This... was... Brilliant!!! The man is correct - this is 1 of most amusen thing ever to come on EG - we have some very witty people on here ;)

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:26:00 - [331] Originally by: dakari Originally by: Heavyn Edited by: Heavyn on 03/03/2008 19:20:55 I can make this simple for everybody...and even from multiple threads. although I dont like what GS is doing (having been one of the ones that lost) it is fair to say that is allowed until the Gods that be do something. But the simple fact is, as far as I know, I'm the only one paying my sub fees, who the hell are some of you people to tell me to play 'your' game. I play my game....period, and not to please you. So dont tell me (or anyone else that you arent paying for) to come to 0.0, you'd gripe at the overpopulation, and dont tell me (or anyone else your not paying for) to stop being the bad guy...if you do, your an idiot What i'd like to see, quite honestly (and this really is not said out of hostility from losing a hulk, I could care less) is a statement from an actual leader...I'd love to know what the motive is behind it, for the simple fact is, it's unique. Economic? do you have too many BPC's, idle BPO's, moon minerals? I'm tired of reading through 8 pages of peon 'bees' trying to justify that which they probably dont have a clue why they are doing it. Lets hear from the actual minds behind the monster!! oh yea, my views are my own only, I'll admit, it was an alt account that lost the hulk...no views here except my own, and I accept my own consequenses. (bad speller btw.) I'm Heavyn, fear me...someday Honestly, I'm one of the people who will stick to empire until I can afford to move deeper in. I stopped playing 3 years ago due to the release of WoW, came back about 2 months ago because WoW has gotten boring. 3 years ago I was a miner with a builder alt and at the end of third month I played I was based in 0.2 space in a low traffic route that had a lab that I could research my BPO's and build my stuff.The only problem I had really was moving stuff to 0.5 to sell it but with the amount of money I was making from selling ships and items and the ease at which I got most of the minerals made it a fair trade off to lose a ship every other day. Now that I am back, I have no money and needed to "regear" my characters into hulks and whatnot I am sticking to empire until I have a nice wallet and a few ships to burn through and losing 170mil would not be such a big deal. Way off point, but it's a little bit of background on me, I liked the dodging of pirates and privateers, I liked the feeling of proving myself smarter at the game of cat and mouse than the people who happened to come across me while I was in low security, but as I learned and have read on these forums it's almost the exact same in empire, you have to watch your assets and take precautions. I think what goonswarm is doing is like west virginia hillbillies inbreeding and saying "hey pappy who is also my brother and uncle, how about we go gank us some miners and drive up low grade mineral prices!!". It's a dumb idea and will only make more enemies for them in the long run, not just the miners, but anyone who has to buy large quantities of low grade minerals. Little-known fact: you do not need a lot of ISK to survive in 0.0 CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:27:00 - [332] Originally by: Dorsnefran II And when all the Exhumers are gone who will be doing the mining to supply the market with the necessary raw materials for building the produce. What use is a market that will be so extortionately inflated that no one will be able to afford to buy what few resources are left... Get real ... So Hi Sec is only safer, accepted but indiscriminate terrorist acts should have an equal cost to the ones bringing about the anarchistic exploits of the giant Corps/Alliances ... What say all miners simply stop mining and everyone just PvP their way in to oblivion ... I wonder how long that would take to come about ... one thing for sure it is a certainty if such things go unchecked or at least with a more realistic and timely support from the Concord to even the playing field some. The smart miners who are willing to spend the minimal effort to protect themselves will make huge profits. Prices will rise, so suiciding ships becomes expensive. Ganks will be reduced. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:28:00 - [333] Edited by: Nasta443 on 03/03/2008 20:28:27 Originally by: flakeys Tell me then why was i able to play this game the way i did for years till the suicidegankstars started a month or 4 back with a huge increase with the goons last weeks? Your message should be : WELCOME TO THE NEW EVE ... and no thanks CYA There's plenty of posts of people who have been suicided and lost their life savings. There's even more posts about suicides and freighters dropping cans. Etc. Nothing new... its just that it's now hitting miners more when it was previously hitting haulers.
Heavyn	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:28:00 - [334] Edited by: Heavyn on 03/03/2008 20:32:07 'Laws' do not always do what they are intended, any legal aid should be able to tell you that....can any of you relate it to this? and I love the way in all the games i've beta'd, and arguments i've raised, I rarely get a response from the sane....I still want to know who wants to pay my subscription fee for me to play their way (thanks to the one that did respond, and I fully understand) H....the only sensible one...and yeah, I've been in 0.0 for awhile....my Ind alt hasnt
Cpt Fina Mutually Assured Distraction	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:35:00 - [335] Originally by: Cipher7 Hisec is not supposed to be more dangerous than 0.0, for that matter 0.0 is not supposed to be safer than 0.4, the risk/reward is supposed to scale, Quote: I dunno, maybe the words in the top left corner of the screen where it says, "SECURITY LEVEL" So higher security is supposed to mean more dangerous right? From the Official Eve Player Guide : Space consists of star systems. Each of these is assigned a security rating, from 0.0 (Lawless) to 1.0 (Secure). You could imagine the EVE galaxy as a flower, where the secure Empire space is the middle of the flower and the outer lawless regions are the leaves. Lawless space isn't the same as dangerous or less secure space. Corporations and alliances can claim space and enforce their own playerfiendly rules upon it. The level of security comes from the ability to uphold said rules, something that alot of alliances manages to do just fine during times of peace. Yes, the space is lawless in the sense that the "official" empires can't or wont enforce their law there but it can very well be secure when the player-alliances does.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:36:00 - [336] Originally by: flakeys Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: flakeys Now if i need to dock every time something interupts and i need to leave the screen then i'd get the playtime mentioned above. Welcome to eve. Tell me then why was i able to play this game the way i did for years till the suicidegankstars started a month or 4 back with a huge increase with the goons last weeks? Your message should be : WELCOME TO THE NEW EVE ... and no thanks CYA Search back... oh, say a year ago. I'd say further back but I've only been playing 18 months. Suicide ganks are not news CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:44:00 - [337] Quote: If you don't have time to play the game you'd be better off canceling. That's a great idea. Can't understand why the EVE marketing team isn't pushing it.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:52:00 - [338] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: flakeys Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: flakeys Now if i need to dock every time something interupts and i need to leave the screen then i'd get the playtime mentioned above. Welcome to eve. Tell me then why was i able to play this game the way i did for years till the suicidegankstars started a month or 4 back with a huge increase with the goons last weeks? Your message should be : WELCOME TO THE NEW EVE ... and no thanks CYA Search back... oh, say a year ago. I'd say further back but I've only been playing 18 months. Suicide ganks are not news /truth Hey miner guys. Want to make 80% of your normal isk per hour and not have to worry too much about getting ganked? Hulks mining ore. Buy a Covetor and fit it with T1 strips, a med extender with pdu and mining upgrade. Insure it. Go find an out of the way .5~.7 system with a 50% refinery and set up shop. Will take a bit longer to haul it to a system with top prices but hey your making most of your isk per hour and thumbing your nose at GS. If your one of the unlucky ones and still get ganked well instead a huge gaping loss your simply out a few mil. Hulks/Macks mining ice. Buy a covetor and fit it with T1 ice strips a small extender and 2 cargohold II. Take a shuttle or even better a mwd frigate and go as far away from the blobs of miners and set up as many BMs as you have the patience to make at different places along the belt. Insure your Covetor. Mine for 2 cycles and dock then warp to a random bm and repete until your ice quota is filled. If your unlucky and still get ganked well same as the guy mining ore your only out a few mil instead of getting wtfpwd on your wallet. Enjoy. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Heavyn	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:52:00 - [339] Happy, happy....Joy, Joy my experiment is done....I my now finish my Dr thieses!!! H...Love me now, because I'm the only one the makes sense
Aaron Mirrorsaver R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 20:57:00 - [340] i know for certain if ccp start losing too many subs because of it, they'll nip this in the bud, dont know the measure they will take, but they wont let this e-jihad go on if thats the case.. Go Hard, or go Home.

Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:00:00 - [341] Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver i know for certain if ccp start losing too many subs because of it, they'll nip this in the bud, dont know the measure they will take, but they wont let this e-jihad go on if thats the case.. Maybe. But forum-crying is not the same as lost subs. All these people bleating that they're gonna have to watch local and align to a safe are paying $15/month for the priv. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:15:00 - [342] Originally by: Malcanis Maybe. But forum-crying is not the same as lost subs. All these people bleating that they're gonna have to watch local and align to a safe are paying $15/month for the priv. You are correct. And right now there will be very few cancelled subscriptions. But you can bet that CCP also watches how many players are active in what regions and systems, determining trends in order to assist in node balancing. If they start seeing the number of players start dropping off and can see fewer and fewer players that are generally mining logging in, they will take action also. After all, its one thing to cancel a subscription you might have a couple of months left on and a whole different thing to not re-up one because you aren't playing anymore If you compare this to the Privateers last year, you can see this happening. I was keeping track of the daily number of players online during my play-period and towards the end of the Privateer's heyday it had dropped over 4000 each night even though CCP was claiming overall subscriptions had risen. It wasn't until 3 months after the Privateer nerf that those numbers came back. I doubt they lost many subs due to that either, but had it continued a lot of those 3-6 month GTC players would have stopped renewing. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:21:00 - [343] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 03/03/2008 21:24:47 Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: An Anarchyyt Lets assume for a minute, that your ridiculous rabble is true, where exactly is it said that low-sec is not meant to be more dangrous than 0.0? I dunno, maybe the words in the top left corner of the screen where it says, "SECURITY LEVEL" So higher security is supposed to mean more dangerous right? From the Official Eve Player Guide : Space consists of star systems. Each of these is assigned a security rating, from 0.0 (Lawless) to 1.0 (Secure). You could imagine the EVE galaxy as a flower, where the secure Empire space is the middle of the flower and the outer lawless regions are the leaves. The ultimate goal in EVE is power. It can be power over the market, military dominance, financial power, or political power. These are all achievable in EVE at degrees varying from local system, regional level, or even universe-wide. EVE caters to many different play styles, ranging from the hard core combat commander to the patient miner New Player Protection New characters enter the EVE world in high security areas of space, heavily guarded by police ships and sentry guns. Making Money Mining There are many forms of mining, ranging from solo prospecting to large scale strip mining by industrial corporations. The latter requires considerable planning and coordination, but solo mining does not require much skill or knowledge. That sounds like the perfect job for you! Don't worry; every dashing space hero and galactic corporate mogul had to start somewhere. A suitable system for launching your new mining career should meet the following criteria: * Be 1.0 to 0.8 security. Except of course, like many other things in the knowledge base, it only applies to certain situations and is simply wrong, and badly in need of an update. The first thing, is that "Security level" is specifically in response to NPC security. So yes, there is no CONCORD in 0.0, and gate guns and station guns only attack you if you are dumb enough to agress them. Calling 0.0 lawless is just plain wrong. What it is saying, is that there is no NPC law in there, no CONCORD. So the players are free to make the law. There is most certainly law in 0.0 regions, Whether it is the NRDS policy of CVA, or the RoR policies of many alliances for fellow allies in home regions. These all sound like law to me. But, I guess if someone has never been in 0.0, or only in NPC 0.0, then they would't really understand this. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:23:00 - [344] And I will repeat my offer again: To those of you who are threatening to strike/quit/whatever, please do so. Don't just threaten, do it right now. To help you strike this blow against CCP, I will remove the temptation to ever return to EVE. Assuming your character is able to fly a Hulk, I will give you a month's subscription to the MMORPG of your choice in exchange for it. Now, either take the deal, or shut up about how you're going to quit and screw all of us PvPers. Your empty threats are just irritating.
Heavyn	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:28:00 - [345] can make this simple for everybody...and even from multiple threads. although I dont like what GS is doing (having been one of the ones that lost) it is fair to say that is allowed until the Gods that be do something. But the simple fact is, as far as I know, I'm the only one paying my sub fees, who the hell are some of you people to tell me to play 'your' game. I play my game....period, and not to please you. So dont tell me (or anyone else that you arent paying for) to come to 0.0, you'd gripe at the overpopulation, and dont tell me (or anyone else your not paying for) to stop being the bad guy...if you do, your an idiot What i'd like to see, quite honestly (and this really is not said out of hostility from losing a hulk, I could care less) is a statement from an actual leader...I'd love to know what the motive is behind it, for the simple fact is, it's unique. Economic? do you have too many BPC's, idle BPO's, moon minerals? I'm tired of reading through 8 pages of peon 'bees' trying to justify that which they probably dont have a clue why they are doing it. Lets hear from the actual minds behind the monster!! Oh yeah, the BoB 'bees' can be included in that 'peon' statement, until they prove otherwise. oh yea, my views are my own only, I'll admit, it was an alt account that lost the hulk...no views here except my own, and I accept my own consequenses. (bad speller btw.) I'm Heavyn, fear me...someday, but love and kisses until then
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:28:00 - [346] Edited by: Chirruper on 03/03/2008 21:28:45 For the record, there is a carebear WoW in space now if they need help quitting.
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:29:00 - [347] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Now, either take the deal, or shut up about how you're going to quit and screw all of us PvPers. Your empty threats are just irritating. So is getting ganked and smacked about it in the forums. Dude, I'm so totally quitting the game. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:30:00 - [348] Originally by: Merin Ryskin And I will repeat my offer again: To those of you who are threatening to strike/quit/whatever, please do so. Don't just threaten, do it right now. To help you strike this blow against CCP, I will remove the temptation to ever return to EVE. Assuming your character is able to fly a Hulk, I will give you a month's subscription to the MMORPG of your choice in exchange for it. Now, either take the deal, or shut up about how you're going to quit and screw all of us PvPers. Your empty threats are just irritating. Heh. Not just "can I have your stuff" but "Can I have your skillpoints". Nice. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:31:00 - [349] Originally by: Aaron Mirrorsaver i know for certain if ccp start losing too many subs because of it, they'll nip this in the bud, dont know the measure they will take, but they wont let this e-jihad go on if thats the case.. And thats what you call mediocrity. What the carebears demand, ccp does. Because they are multitude. Maybe if you wined long and loud enough they could change it so that when your ship explodes it gets transported to your hangar with modules included but suffering some minor repairable damage... ANd why not. You just have to threaten to cancel subscriptions.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:31:00 - [350] Originally by: Heavyn can make this simple for everybody...and even from multiple threads. although I dont like what GS is doing (having been one of the ones that lost) it is fair to say that is allowed until the Gods that be do something. But the simple fact is, as far as I know, I'm the only one paying my sub fees, who the hell are some of you people to tell me to play 'your' game. I play my game....period, and not to please you. So dont tell me (or anyone else that you arent paying for) to come to 0.0, you'd gripe at the overpopulation, and dont tell me (or anyone else your not paying for) to stop being the bad guy...if you do, your an idiot What i'd like to see, quite honestly (and this really is not said out of hostility from losing a hulk, I could care less) is a statement from an actual leader...I'd love to know what the motive is behind it, for the simple fact is, it's unique. Economic? do you have too many BPC's, idle BPO's, moon minerals? I'm tired of reading through 8 pages of peon 'bees' trying to justify that which they probably dont have a clue why they are doing it. Lets hear from the actual minds behind the monster!! Oh yeah, the BoB 'bees' can be included in that 'peon' statement, until they prove otherwise. oh yea, my views are my own only, I'll admit, it was an alt account that lost the hulk...no views here except my own, and I accept my own consequenses. (bad speller btw.) I'm Heavyn, fear me...someday, but love and kisses until then From what I know of goons, I'd say that their primary motivation is very likely to be able to read posts like the one you made. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Heavyn	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:35:00 - [351] Then I guess reality realy does move in a circular motion....but your response isnt good enough to satisfy my real curiosity. H....pay for me, if you want to rule me
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:36:00 - [352] Originally by: Heavyn Then I guess reality realy does move in a circular motion....but your response isnt good enough to satisfy my real curiosity. H....pay for me, if you want to rule me The short answer is "ADD"
Minertor	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:37:00 - [353] that a good plan :) but need a noob fleet motivated to do this hehehe :) not easy Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: El'Niaga Crybaby whining for CCP to make the nasty men go away As more miners get ganked, and either stop mining or raise their prices to cover the risk, mineral prices will rise. Consequently so will ship prices. As ship prices rise, suiciding becomes less profitable. Soon an equilibrium is reached where the marginal cost of suiciding a ship becomes greater than the expected reward of ganking a hulk. If ship prices don't rise, then it implies that either: (1) This latest escapade while creating a lot of forum tears, is insignificant in the greater EvE economy. (2) That hi-sec miners are't as vital to that economy as some of them are claiming. (3) Both of the above. For those miners pinning their hopes on an "Alliance P" style nerf, remember that it took CCP 6 months to do that. Mal's advice: stop crying to CCP because you don't understand (or just plain won't accept) that YOUR SHIP IS AT RISK THE INSTANT YOU UNDOCK, and take the very minimal steps required to protect yourself. If people can successfully and profitably mine in 0.0, with no CONCORD, no faction police and not even security penalties for attackers, then how in the name of all things fail can you guys not manage it in empire which has all of those advantages. Jesus here's one I'll throw out for free: USE THEIR OWN TECHNIQUES AGAINST THEM. You can create a reasonable T1 cruiser combat alt in a couple of weeks (thorax, blackbird, rupture, rifter, kestrel, punisher, whatever ships are cheap and effective). Create an NPC miners intel channel, and put your alts into a new corp. Have that corp wardec goonswarm. Scour hi-sec for goon noobs and haulers and goonswarm them right back. Insure your cruisers so they're 'free'. (In fact you can mine the minerals for the ships and the mods, so you will make a profit every time you lose one - double win! You don't need skills, you don't need tactics, you don't need to be very good at PvP: you just need numbers. Fly around in mobs of 30-50+. There are thousands of hi-sec miners - at least as many as goonswarm has active players - and you're all in empire, whereas the majority of goons are in 0.0. Your locust-horde of disposable T1 cruiser alts could scour empire clean of goons in a few days: they'll either have to withdraw from empire or break off from fighting BoB & co. If they do come to empire in force, no problem: every time you lose a ship, you're making a profit anyway, and if they really kick your ass, just dock up and don't log your combat alt. Properly fitted combat ships are much too expensive to suicide so you can probably go back to mining - just have a few scouts in cloakers keep an eye on the goon fleets and relay their position to your intel channel. If goons disperse to start ganking your mining ships, dock up and log your mineswarm alts again and kill them in brutally unfair 50 vs 7 fights. Let me repeat: you would not need lots of PvP skillpoints - goons have proved that. You would not need to be very experienced - goons have proved that. You would not care about losses of disposable, insured, T1-fitted frigates and cruisers - goons have proved that. You only need numbers and the will to close, lock, point and fire - goons have proved that. Now given that what I have outlined is provably achievable, why on earth should CCP lift a finger to do for you what you won't even try to do for yourselves?
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:38:00 - [354] Originally by: Chirruper The short answer is "ADD" equips gas harvesters to start making ritalin I'm gonna be rich! ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Minertor	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:44:00 - [355] i understand what you say :) the fun its gone like Originally by: flakeys Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: flakeys Ever considered some people don't sit in empire semi afk mining/hauling because they are too scared of low sec?When i didn't have a job , wife and kid i played alllll day and night.I have lived in 0.0 at those times. Nowadays if i can only game if i need to stay behind the computer my playtime is limited to what...20 minutes a day tops?And i know there are a lot of older players like me.Those are the ones that get fedd up with this and just cancel the sub and move. Well then. If you don't have time to play the game you'd be better off canceling. Cuz 20 minutes in eve aint even foreplay. If ccp cared they'd make missions shorter and split rooms across mulitiple part missions so you can actually do something in a more casual way. Read up dude i just DID cancel my accounts.And for your reasoning , i was able to play for a few hours at least a night but divide my time in docking/emptying hulk then start back mining and having fun with my son/wife.Now if i need to dock every time something interupts and i need to leave the screen then i'd get the playtime mentioned above.But hey i wouldn't expect any of the schoolboys/unemployed and people who really shouldn't be married and have kids in the first place to understand what i am saying.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:47:00 - [356] Originally by: Minertor that a good plan :) but need a noob fleet motivated to do this hehehe :) not easy Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: El'Niaga Crybaby whining for CCP to make the nasty men go away My plan Maybe, maybe not. The point being that it's flat out wrong to say that the situation is "unfair" or "hopeless" when it is manifestly, demonstrably, provably neither. The plan I outlined is perfectly achievable. All that it requires to succeed is to be attempted. Given that, why should CCP change 1 line of code? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:48:00 - [357] Originally by: Minertor that a good plan :) but need a noob fleet motivated to do this hehehe :) not easy Yeah tell me about it. Most of the replies I got could be summed up like this: "hurhur i'll just go play wow till they get bored" Which to be completely fair in most purely empire miners cases would probably be the best thing to do. Originally by: MM0RPG EVE Review "if you aren't my friend you are my income."
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:51:00 - [358] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Minertor that a good plan :) but need a noob fleet motivated to do this hehehe :) not easy Yeah tell me about it. Most of the replies I got could be summed up like this: "hurhur i'll just go play wow till they get bored" Which to be completely fair in most purely empire miners cases would probably be the best thing to do. Well with a commitment like that to the game, it's easy to see why they deserve to have things changed to suit them Candidly, EvE is better off without such people. GG goons. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Princess Jodi Vendetta Underground Rule of Three	Posted - 2008.03.03 21:57:00 - [359] Let's try some origial thinking on this phenomenom: - Ice in Empire is running out. Plenty of Ice in 0.0. Since 0.0 is where the POS's are, that's where the Ice Mining should be as well. Maybe this will get people to mine ice in 0.0, as most will abandon ice mining in favor of more profitable 0.0 occupations at present. - The 'Defend Yourself' crowd missed the point: its not that people can't defend themselves, its that doing so takes extra toons which means they eat a cut of profits. By increasing costs of mining in empire via the need for greater security, the miners are learning to work within an Alliance framework where security is provided by others. - Goonswarm might be in danger/desire of ****ing off enough of Eve to get themselves killed. Look at why the Coalition against Bob exists if you need any examples. - In the extreme, Goons might wanna be like the main alliance on the China server. Should one group ever control enough of Eve to dictate the means of play for all others, I think Eve would die. Some confirm that this is Goonswarm's goal, some deny it. - Factional Warfare might someday make it actually mean something to be part of a Faction. When that day comes, it would be nice to see Empire NPC's actually declaring War on Player Alliances. That would solve the people hiding in NPC corps problem, as well as broaden the needs of an alliance. For example, they would need Calderi Mission Runners to offset suicide ganks in Jita. - Hulk-using CareBears are the richest group in Eve. Too bad they are mostly solo players. If they chose to focus their economic might, they could easily overcome the Griefers military might. But the solo lifestyle prevents that focus. Maybe this ganking will provide incentive for a Mining Consortium Alliance, with Mercenaries benefiting from the contracts.
Technovar Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:04:00 - [360] Originally by: ZerKar Personally I would like to see this Goonswarm crapfest result in a freeze on mining and industrail work in all of Empire. Just everyone cease what you are doing for awhile. After all, they are making it too expensive to be worth your time anyway right? Let that Freeze last a fair while and see what it does to the economy. Watch the newbs drop like flies as the pricess of things slowly climb. Watch the isk sellers get super rich selling now beautifully "limited" isk for very high pricesses to all those folks who need to keep buying all those expensive modules and ships. It would be great fun to watch some large portion of EvE just shut right down. Excellent! An opportunity for the smarter, hungrier miners and industrialists to make some good profit while you fail to compete!

cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:11:00 - [361] If the entire empire economy shuts down, I guess I'll have to break out my own industrial skills and make stuff myself (I can do it, I just choose not to because someone else is doing it for me). --- Join BH-DL Skills
Pezzle Amarr Imperial Dreams Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:15:00 - [362] I heard about this happening. After reading the first 2-3 posts here I thought this could be a brilliant move by Goonswarm. Or it could just be Goons being Goons. If CCP decides it is out of control no doubt they can find a way to curb the behavior. If not, learn to weather the storm.
Hamfast Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:22:00 - [363] I think we have seen the truth... Goons are popping Exhumers because they were afraid of facing them in the tourny --------*****-------- It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face.
jdok Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:32:00 - [364] Fail logic of goon leadership. Surprised?! They start to fight BOB seriously, don't do so well, instead of rallying and keeping pressure on they take members out of the corp to suicide unrelated miners in empire. Drives up isk prices, empire mineral prices, empire ship prices perhaps. Maybe even insurance companies get wise and up the ante. Either way, this all just screws Goons tactically. None of this really effects bob, who fly T2 0.0 manufactured ships, and really screws goons flying empire produced t1 insurable ships. Maybe your newer members will start to pay a heftier price when dying in your blobs and stop thinking its such a great idea to be part of a fail alliance with the reputation of a bunch of ****ers. Sure you can stroke your e-peens with your killboard stats, but really in the long term how does this benefit goons? I guess your suicide pilots can horde some money in the short term with the suicide profits, but as an alliance overall how the hell does this help you? I guess in Goon logic this builds up some pride and moral after failing to do what you thought would be so easy. Gotta keep the noobswarm interested in being sheep. As for the miner proletariat, if you are part of a serious alliance, doesn't this just show how you are mistreated? Are you avenged by your employers? Do they even care that this just lowers your wage even further? The large 0.0 business elite will profit from this while you slave away in empire in dangerous working conditions, making a fraction of what the 0.0 alliances make. Workers of EvE unite! Rise against your oppressors, and against those who do their bidding. Demand protection! Set traps for these goon fools! Leave your abusive alliances to join PvP revolutionaries! Take the fight to goon space! ___________________________
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:41:00 - [365] Remember when Privateers first came out and started abusing the wardec mechanics? All the "hardcore 0.0 PvP'ers" started whining like children "boo hoo I cant get my hauler full of Zyd to Jita" And what did CCP do, they tweaked it. Same thing here. If you are against what the Goons are doing, then do it yourself, do more of it, make it your mission in life to abuse the game mechanics, grief all the new customers out of the game, grab the economy by its nipels and squEEEEzzze. CCP will take notice.
Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:46:00 - [366] Originally by: Cipher7 Remember when Privateers first came out and started abusing the wardec mechanics? All the "hardcore 0.0 PvP'ers" started whining like children "boo hoo I cant get my hauler full of Zyd to Jita" And what did CCP do, they tweaked it. Same thing here. If you are against what the Goons are doing, then do it yourself, do more of it, make it your mission in life to abuse the game mechanics, grief all the new customers out of the game, grab the economy by its nipels and squEEEEzzze. CCP will take notice. people who fly hulks are by no means new players.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:48:00 - [367] Originally by: jdok I get all my information from CAOD! Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Baby Bear	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:51:00 - [368] I like watching all the little goon ships turning into fireballs. Concord FTW. BTW my son flys Goon. He'll soon be thirteen. That about sums up that
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 22:55:00 - [369] Originally by: Princess Jodi - Hulk-using CareBears are the richest group in Eve. Too bad they are mostly solo players. If they chose to focus their economic might, they could easily overcome the Griefers military might. But the solo lifestyle prevents that focus. Maybe this ganking will provide incentive for a Mining Consortium Alliance, with Mercenaries benefiting from the contracts. I don't think you can call that original when I already suggested it But seriously, I'd like to see this happen. Why should empire miners be weak and powerless? They're rich, they have production resources, they're numerous. At the cost of 1-3 weeks training they could have combat alts (or wtf they could just buy a 5-10M SP combat character...) for counter-griefing ops, they could collectively afford mercenaries, they could use their collective production for political influence. All this crying? God, it amazes me... this deliberate choice to be weak and victimised rather than powerful and feared. WHY? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:00:00 - [370] I'll tell you what the ultimate solution to this is : CCP should work this into a storyline. CONCORD and all the major empires declare GS (and possibly anyone with positive standings towards them) as persona-non-grata in empire. They are instantly attacked by faction police in say 0.1 - 0.5. > 0.5 they are insta-Concorded. To fight the alt problem, take it further. Send a Concord task force or three into 0.0 and toast 50% of their POS's. This would preserve the PvP sanctity of the game and would also provide a "realistic" (yes, I know that's a weird term to use) view of what a real sovereign empire would do to an out of control band of pirates. Man, that'd rule :)

dakari	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:04:00 - [371] Little-known fact: you do not need a lot of ISK to survive in 0.0 How much is "not alot" of money? Isn't that solely dependant upon what the individual player wants to do or feels is necessary?not to mention how much support said person gets from a corp or alliance?
Anaalys Fluuterby Caldari	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:07:00 - [372] Originally by: Malcanis WHY? Same reasons we are in High Sec.... We play to relax and have fun. To many that doesn't include ganking on a massive scale. We take our chances on suicides, wardecs, market prices, etc but many do not enjoy physical confrontation on a large scale. Many of us find the periodic wardec fun too, but once it lasts more than a week or so it isn't fun anymore and we just wait it out. See, we are playing a game. If the game doesn't give us what we like we move on. The Eve universe is supposed to be a dark, cold universe and we LIKE the danger that goes along with that but once it crosses a certain line then it isn't fun and the carebears log and find something else to do that IS fun. Now if it were truely a "cold" universe CCP would take known criminals and deny clones for them. IRL a criminal was eventually hunted down and executed, in Eve they just wake up in the next station, buy another ship and wait for the 15 minute aggression timer to go away. Hence Eve will never progress as "civilization", which is fine. But also expect whines when our current society is more advanced civilly that this one 1000s of years in the future. Originally by: Audri Fisher On the other, the emo tears being cryed in this thread tell me that just because you shoot somebody for a living, does not mean you aren't a carebear
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:15:00 - [373] Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby Originally by: Malcanis WHY? Same reasons we are in High Sec.... We play to relax and have fun. To many that doesn't include ganking on a massive scale. We take our chances on suicides, wardecs, market prices, etc but many do not enjoy physical confrontation on a large scale. Many of us find the periodic wardec fun too, but once it lasts more than a week or so it isn't fun anymore and we just wait it out. See, we are playing a game. If the game doesn't give us what we like we move on. The Eve universe is supposed to be a dark, cold universe and we LIKE the danger that goes along with that but once it crosses a certain line then it isn't fun and the carebears log and find something else to do that IS fun. Now if it were truely a "cold" universe CCP would take known criminals and deny clones for them. IRL a criminal was eventually hunted down and executed, in Eve they just wake up in the next station, buy another ship and wait for the 15 minute aggression timer to go away. Hence Eve will never progress as "civilization", which is fine. But also expect whines when our current society is more advanced civilly that this one 1000s of years in the future. You missed answering some of my post. OK you just really dislike PvPing: I'll accept that -as you quite rightly point out, it's your game time and you're paying for it after all. I can't help thinking you might like it if you tried it but that's the way I'm wired. But what about politics? Using your combined economic muscle to get the results you want? What of that? Surely, and I'm pleading with you to consider this point very carefully, it's infinitely better for the players to come up with a player-based solution to a player-caused problem than to have CCP step in and take the toys away? I say this as someone who absolutely loves this crazy weird frustrating wonderful game, but shouldn't the players be in some way obligated to try to solve the problem before crying for changes that will have very drastic effects. As an additional argument, I cite the Law of Unintended Consequences. The changes being asked for may well come back to bite the petitioners in the ass. Need I mention can-baiting...? CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:20:00 - [374] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Edited by: Spacy Tracy on 03/03/2008 23:07:05 I'll tell you what the ultimate solution to this is : CCP should work this into a storyline. CONCORD and all the major empires declare GS (and possibly anyone with positive standings towards them) as persona-non-grata in empire. They are instantly attacked by faction police in say 0.1 - 0.5. > 0.5 they are insta-Concorded. To fight the alt problem, take it further. Send a Concord task force or three into 0.0 and toast 50% of their POS's. This would preserve the PvP sanctity of the game and would also provide a "realistic" (yes, I know that's a weird term to use) view of what a real sovereign empire would do to an out of control band of pirates. I mean, you know haulers are next, right? It's coming. So, rather than let GS ruin the game for everyone (carebears and PvPers who like things they way they are), why not have the game itself fight back and give the d-bags a taste of their own medicine? Waste 50% of their assets and they'll reap what they sow :) Man, that'd rule :) If concord and the faction navies cant even eradiate NPC pirate factions like the Guristas, what makes you think they can take on capsuleer alliances that utterly decimate those pirate factions? I'd say the various 0.0 alliances are MORE powerful than the 4 empires. We can kill their ships by hundreds without loss, who do you think you're fighting when you run a lvl 4 mission?
dakari	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:27:00 - [375] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Princess Jodi - Hulk-using CareBears are the richest group in Eve. Too bad they are mostly solo players. If they chose to focus their economic might, they could easily overcome the Griefers military might. But the solo lifestyle prevents that focus. Maybe this ganking will provide incentive for a Mining Consortium Alliance, with Mercenaries benefiting from the contracts. I don't think you can call that original when I already suggested it But seriously, I'd like to see this happen. Why should empire miners be weak and powerless? They're rich, they have production resources, they're numerous. At the cost of 1-3 weeks training they could have combat alts (or wtf they could just buy a 5-10M SP combat character...) for counter-griefing ops, they could collectively afford mercenaries, they could use their collective production for political influence. All this crying? God, it amazes me... this deliberate choice to be weak and victimised rather than powerful and feared. WHY? You're starting to fail pretty bad at posting about this subject. You post as if this is a PvP'er vs carebear situation when in fact this is a eve universe situation. Goons kill off the high security miners, some may be isk farmers some not, people have to switch up to mission running or slower methods of mining, prices rise, production slows, if this lasts any amount of time all the valuable products are bought up and then resold at 2x-3x the normal price and price gouging starts happening. All the people who do not depend upon self sustaining alliances are forced to run missions to acquire ISK to outfit ships that once used to cost 350mil that now cost 1 billion or more. The only people who will be rich are the ones who are already rich and those most definately are not the 'just in a hulk" semi noobs, but those established characters who are good at playing the market and forcasting how the market will fluctuate. And I'm betting those people right now have bought up all the really cheap tech 2 items and within a week or so will be putting them up at 3x normal price. Believe me, when you yourself are whining about the cost of tech 2 prices in the next couple weeks, you sure as hell will try to blame the miners but in reality it will be you PvP'ers who are to blame. And as I said earlier, I'll probably still mine in my hulk or covetor OR retrievers, but I'll just be smart about it.
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:40:00 - [376] Edited by: Spacy Tracy on 03/03/2008 23:41:23 Originally by: Gamesguy We can kill their ships by hundreds without loss, who do you think you're fighting when you run a lvl 4 mission? Ok, so just make it Concord. The 4 empires have decided that GS has started having too great of an economic impact on their sovereign areas (true in both the real-life and Eve-life sense). So, they send in unstoppable CONCORD to teach the Goons a lesson. Wreck 50% of their holdings (or more, if necessary) and something will change, I guarantee it. They send in a supercap fleet to stop CONCORD, it gets squished. This solves multiple problems in one stroke. - It's a one-off. It's not changing the game fundamentally in any way. It doesn't break any of the things which keep the game "open". - It adds a little life to the very very otherwise dead empires. Like a real game event. - Goons get an anal reaming that they so richly deserve. No one loses except them. PvPers and normal griefers can continue doing what they always do. Carebears can carebear. Goons get smacked real hard as any rogue nation-state would. I tells ya, those ******* would have a hard time grinning and saying "we LOVE this!" all clever-like if that went down :)
Jacob Mei	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:45:00 - [377] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Edited by: Spacy Tracy on 03/03/2008 23:41:23 Originally by: Gamesguy We can kill their ships by hundreds without loss, who do you think you're fighting when you run a lvl 4 mission? Ok, so just make it Concord. The 4 empires have decided that GS has started having too great of an economic impact on their sovereign areas (true in both the real-life and Eve-life sense). So, they send in unstoppable CONCORD to teach the Goons a lesson. Wreck 50% of their holdings (or more, if necessary) and something will change, I guarantee it. They send in a supercap fleet to stop CONCORD, it gets squished. This solves multiple problems in one stroke. - It's a one-off. It's not changing the game fundamentally in any way. It doesn't break any of the things which keep the game "open". - It adds a little life to the very very otherwise dead empires. Like a real game event. - Goons get an anal reaming that they so richly deserve. No one loses except them. PvPers and normal griefers can continue doing what they always do. Carebears can carebear. Goons get smacked real hard as any rogue nation-state would. I tells ya, those ******* would have a hard time grinning and saying "we LOVE this!" all clever-like if that went down :) Would give the inner circle of concord a scape goat to explain their blunder in sending ships into null sec =p.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:45:00 - [378] CCP has tried using NPC dreadnaughts to help BoB before, way back in the day. It didn't go down to well, thats why they use more covert means of supporting bob now. So I dont think we will see concord foraying into goons space any time soon.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:46:00 - [379] Originally by: dakari Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Princess Jodi - Hulk-using CareBears are the richest group in Eve. Too bad they are mostly solo players. If they chose to focus their economic might, they could easily overcome the Griefers military might. But the solo lifestyle prevents that focus. Maybe this ganking will provide incentive for a Mining Consortium Alliance, with Mercenaries benefiting from the contracts. I don't think you can call that original when I already suggested it But seriously, I'd like to see this happen. Why should empire miners be weak and powerless? They're rich, they have production resources, they're numerous. At the cost of 1-3 weeks training they could have combat alts (or wtf they could just buy a 5-10M SP combat character...) for counter-griefing ops, they could collectively afford mercenaries, they could use their collective production for political influence. All this crying? God, it amazes me... this deliberate choice to be weak and victimised rather than powerful and feared. WHY? You're starting to fail pretty bad at posting about this subject. You post as if this is a PvP'er vs carebear situation when in fact this is a eve universe situation. Goons kill off the high security miners, some may be isk farmers some not, people have to switch up to mission running or slower methods of mining, prices rise, production slows, if this lasts any amount of time all the valuable products are bought up and then resold at 2x-3x the normal price and price gouging starts happening. All the people who do not depend upon self sustaining alliances are forced to run missions to acquire ISK to outfit ships that once used to cost 350mil that now cost 1 billion or more. The only people who will be rich are the ones who are already rich and those most definately are not the 'just in a hulk" semi noobs, but those established characters who are good at playing the market and forcasting how the market will fluctuate. And I'm betting those people right now have bought up all the really cheap tech 2 items and within a week or so will be putting them up at 3x normal price. Believe me, when you yourself are whining about the cost of tech 2 prices in the next couple weeks, you sure as hell will try to blame the miners but in reality it will be you PvP'ers who are to blame. And as I said earlier, I'll probably still mine in my hulk or covetor OR retrievers, but I'll just be smart about it. Your post is so full of unsupported assumptions, I don't know where to begin. There: I admit it. Your forum-fu defeats me. I can't contest with irrationality on this scale. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Dreiden Kisada GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:52:00 - [380] Edited by: Dreiden Kisada on 03/03/2008 23:52:02 Originally by: dakari Little-known fact: you do not need a lot of ISK to survive in 0.0 How much is "not alot" of money? Isn't that solely dependant upon what the individual player wants to do or feels is necessary?not to mention how much support said person gets from a corp or alliance? Let me put this into perspective for you. You can buy an Osprey, and a badger, fitted for 0.0 travel for around 10 to 15 mil. This includes T2 miners. You can, if you are careful, move both ships into an out of the way, non-dead end 0.0 system only a few jumps from empire. Don't go for one of the real low truesec areas. You can mine there as long as you pay attention to the game and are careful. move your ore out for refining. Its not great money, but you can mine right out from hostile's noses. I did this for a week to pay for a battleship once. Also, at least now we know for a fact that none of these people are spies, or else they'd know it takes a week to get into goonswarm even if you've been a goon for 7 years. :D PS: Seriously guys make frig/cruiser alts and get together and wardec us. The preceding statements are my opionion. Not to be confused with anything official.

Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:52:00 - [381] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 03/03/2008 23:54:15 Originally by: Spacy Tracy Ok, so just make it Concord. The 4 empires have decided that GS has started having too great of an economic impact on their sovereign areas (true in both the real-life and Eve-life sense). So, they send in unstoppable CONCORD to teach the Goons a lesson. Wreck 50% of their holdings (or more, if necessary) and something will change, I guarantee it. They send in a supercap fleet to stop CONCORD, it gets squished. This solves multiple problems in one stroke. - It's a one-off. It's not changing the game fundamentally in any way. It doesn't break any of the things which keep the game "open". - It adds a little life to the very very otherwise dead empires. Like a real game event. - Goons get an anal reaming that they so richly deserve. No one loses except them. PvPers and normal griefers can continue doing what they always do. Carebears can carebear. Goons get smacked real hard as any rogue nation-state would. I tells ya, those ***** would have a hard time grinning and saying "we LOVE this!" all clever-like if that went down :) ** NO. Take a look at my corp/alliance over on the left. I do not like Goonswarm, and will be quite happy to see them die. But even I think this idea is just utterly stupid. Having invulnerable god-NPCs come in and arbitrarily kill a player faction destroys the entire concept of EVE. Forget all the various cheating scandals, this would be far, far worse than any of those. I'd much rather see the developers giving free BPOs, faction battleships, etc, to all their friends. At least then, there is still a chance to kill them. CONCORD fleets, on the other hand... If you really want to kill EVE, this is how to do it. Make all player accomplishments subject to arbitrary destruction by the GMs, and every 0.0 player will cancel their subscription. The ONLY way an "event" like this would be even remotely legitimate is if the NPC fleets were given standard player ships (at best) and the possibility of losing the fight (with consequences for the NPC empire and rewards for Goonswarm). But even then I wouldn't like it.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:54:00 - [382] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Edited by: Spacy Tracy on 03/03/2008 23:41:23 Originally by: Gamesguy We can kill their ships by hundreds without loss, who do you think you're fighting when you run a lvl 4 mission? Ok, so just make it Concord. The 4 empires have decided that GS has started having too great of an economic impact on their sovereign areas (true in both the real-life and Eve-life sense). So, they send in unstoppable CONCORD to teach the Goons a lesson. Wreck 50% of their holdings (or more, if necessary) and something will change, I guarantee it. They send in a supercap fleet to stop CONCORD, it gets squished. This solves multiple problems in one stroke. - It's a one-off. It's not changing the game fundamentally in any way. It doesn't break any of the things which keep the game "open". - It adds a little life to the very very otherwise dead empires. Like a real game event. - Goons get an anal reaming that they so richly deserve. No one loses except them. PvPers and normal griefers can continue doing what they always do. Carebears can carebear. Goons get smacked real hard as any rogue nation-state would. I tells ya, those ******* would have a hard time grinning and saying "we LOVE this!" all clever-like if that went down :) We have concord ships in 0.0. If you ever ran a mission for a pirate faction you'd know this. They die by the hundreds like every other faction navy, to ravens. Now we know why the Caldari state is so strong, because ravens kill everything without fail.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:58:00 - [383] Originally by: Aprudena Gist people who fly hulks are by no means new players. If it can be done to a hulk it can be done to a bantam.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.03 23:59:00 - [384] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Aprudena Gist people who fly hulks are by no means new players. If it can be done to a hulk it can be done to a bantam. If a giant meteor hits earth we're all going to die. About as relevant as your comment.
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:00:00 - [385] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Make all player accomplishments subject to arbitrary destruction by the GMs, and every 0.0 player will cancel their subscription. Nah. It's not "arbitrary". If CCP sees that GS is legitimately causing them to lose players (let's just for now assume this is the case - who knows if it's really true). They're a business and at some point they're not going to allow a bunch of idiots to ruin their playerbase. If that happened (again, if) - what would you rather have happen? They change the game mechanics so you can't even fire a gun in high-sec, or having the d0uchebags who forced the situation take it right up the ass? I know which I'd prefer. In the 6 years Eve's been running, they've never had to do this before (possibly excepting the MoO thing). Why not make it fun and grief the griefers?
Doonoo Boonoo Amarr	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:08:00 - [386] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Aprudena Gist people who fly hulks are by no means new players. If it can be done to a hulk it can be done to a bantam. Are GS ganking Bantams or BSs or Cruisers or Destroyers?
Merin Ryskin FinFleet Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:17:00 - [387] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Nah. It's not "arbitrary". If CCP sees that GS is legitimately causing them to lose players (let's just for now assume this is the case - who knows if it's really true). They're a business and at some point they're not going to allow a bunch of idiots to ruin their playerbase. It's entirely arbitrary. Nothing Goonswarm has done breaks any rule of EVE. There is no punishment in the rules that involves destroying half of an alliance's assets. If CCP decides to just randomly invent new rules and punish people for breaking them before the rule was announced, EVE is dead. And who cares if CCP loses customers. At no point in the history of EVE has CCP tried to make EVE appealing to everyone. From day one, EVE has been a harsh, unforgiving PvP game. The people who would quit after discovering this fact are the people we didn't want here in the first place. Quote: If that happened (again, if) - what would you rather have happen? They change the game mechanics so you can't even fire a gun in high-sec, or having the d0uchebags who forced the situation take it right up the ass? I know which I'd prefer. I would rather have CCP say "sucks to be you, carebears, you were clearly told that there is no such thing as safe space". The fact that people are too stupid and/or lazy to protect themselves does not mean that game mechanics need to be changed. Quote: In the 6 years Eve's been running, they've never had to do this before (possibly excepting the MoO thing). Why not make it fun and grief the griefers? Because it doesn't need to be done at all. Giving arbitrary punishments for actions that are entirely within the rules will kill EVE. If high-sec suicide ganking becomes too much of a problem (which it hasn't), then the mechanics can be changed, and Goonswarm will no longer be able to do it as easily. But that does NOT mean that Goonswarm needs to be punished for it. Just look at the case of Privateers. CCP (wrongly, in my opinion) decided that the war dec system needed to be changed. But that is ALL they did, there were no CONCORD fleets hunting down Privateers, no "in-character" permanent -10.0 security status hits applied, etc.
Fourty Niner	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:20:00 - [388] Edited by: Fourty Niner on 04/03/2008 00:21:44 Humm, you know this "empire wars" thing that CPP are always talking about, whereby the Minmatar go to WAR with the Ammar? Well, couldnt this, (when in place) be used against corps with a really big negative to each nation? That is, allow the goons to do this (which I think is a fair tactic), but each time they get a kill like this in empire space they (as a crop) get a neg to their empire rateing, and a neg to whatever nations space its in. Then (lets say), after a bit any goon in minmatar space has the local fleets attacking them AND anyone with a high enough positive standing to that faction has kill rights on them as well? In fact I dont care if it stops goon ganking I want it in place NOW, so I get a pm from the Republic Fleet, "XXXX Corp, Known Enemies of the Minmatar nation have entered XXX three jumps from you, please Accept a place in the defence force" You will be paid 5,000,000 isk for this mission, and bounty on any ship kills equal to half their value. And when I get there, they might be tanking the local police fleet, but every Empire PvP player within three/five jumps is also there. (Which could possibly include the low sec pirates, just cos they are pirates doesnt mean they have no national pride) And its been my experiance that all the PVP players within an Empire region know each other anyway, and it could be good kudos scoreing to kill more of the incoming than XXX corp.
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:22:00 - [389] One of this biggest reasons CCP supports suicide ganking in high-sec as I see it is because kill contracts would completely useless if people could just hide in high-sec. In that vein, someone in GS put a kill contract of sorts on all exhumers. Hilarity ensues.
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:28:00 - [390] Originally by: Merin Ryskin If CCP decides to just randomly invent new rules and punish people for breaking them before the rule was announced, EVE is dead. Fair enough. They do have a "harrassment" policy. Maybe it needs to get expanded. Even though pretty much everyone deep down inside knows that they're abusing a mechanic, let's be formal about it. No problems there. Quote: And who cares if CCP loses customers. It's all a matter of scale. Eventually, CCP will care. Then they have to start making hard choices. Again, I ask, when it becomes hard-choice time, would you rather have them making the game-mechanic-altering warhammer of a choice (ie, your Privateer example), or would you rather have them do a one-off that punishes a very specific instance? I understand it sounds like incrementalism. And maybe if done wrong, it would be. But I submit that at some point, scale becomes an issue and it is reasonable to say "quit it" in the time-honored Eve tradition : blowing their **** up.

Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:45:00 - [391] Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Aprudena Gist people who fly hulks are by no means new players. If it can be done to a hulk it can be done to a bantam. Are GS ganking Bantams or BSs or Cruisers or Destroyers? Its not like Bantams haven't been ganked before. Who cares about GS, this post is about the disease not the symptom. Put it this way, ppl say "Concord provides consequences, not safety" Insurance pays out, so there is no consequence. You lose your ship, so what, you go buy another one with insurance, it's like free rookieships. Where's the Concord consequence? There is none.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:50:00 - [392] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Quote: And who cares if CCP loses customers. It's all a matter of scale. Eventually, CCP will care. Then they have to start making hard choices. Again, I ask, when it becomes hard-choice time, would you rather have them making the game-mechanic-altering warhammer of a choice (ie, your Privateer example), or would you rather have them do a one-off that punishes a very specific instance? A stitch in time saves nine. There comes a point where a small problem becomes a big problem, there comes a point where 1000 subscriptions turns into 100,000 subscriptions. The "I don't care" ideology works both ways, let Eve die then, I don't care either. But guess who cares. CCP. And I believe they will try to nip it in the bud.
Zorlag Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 00:55:00 - [393] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Spacy Tracy Quote: And who cares if CCP loses customers. It's all a matter of scale. Eventually, CCP will care. Then they have to start making hard choices. Again, I ask, when it becomes hard-choice time, would you rather have them making the game-mechanic-altering warhammer of a choice (ie, your Privateer example), or would you rather have them do a one-off that punishes a very specific instance? A stitch in time saves nine. There comes a point where a small problem becomes a big problem, there comes a point where 1000 subscriptions turns into 100,000 subscriptions. The "I don't care" ideology works both ways, let Eve die then, I don't care either. But guess who cares. CCP. And I believe they will try to nip it in the bud. Just because we got titans nerfed doesn't mean that your opinion means anything at all.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:00:00 - [394] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Spacy Tracy Quote: And who cares if CCP loses customers. It's all a matter of scale. Eventually, CCP will care. Then they have to start making hard choices. Again, I ask, when it becomes hard-choice time, would you rather have them making the game-mechanic-altering warhammer of a choice (ie, your Privateer example), or would you rather have them do a one-off that punishes a very specific instance? A stitch in time saves nine. There comes a point where a small problem becomes a big problem, there comes a point where 1000 subscriptions turns into 100,000 subscriptions. The "I don't care" ideology works both ways, let Eve die then, I don't care either. But guess who cares. CCP. And I believe they will try to nip it in the bud. Please produce some evidence that 1000 subs ar at stake, never mind 10,000. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:19:00 - [395] Edited by: Spacy Tracy on 04/03/2008 01:21:05 Originally by: Zorlag edit: And for that matter, who cares about you Empire pubbies at all? Everyone, CCP included, realizes that you'll do whatever meaningless repetitive task to get imaginary space money to do the tasks faster. Sure - up to a point. And I'm not even claiming doom and gloom here. I have no evidence that what GS is doing is having any effect at all. What I -am- saying is, should the time come, how awesome would it be for you guys to get screwed instead of screwing everyone else by changing the game mechanics? This would be a most excellent reversal of what you guys are really trying to do, right? Oh, you'd put on your brave faces and say "you don't GET Goons" and all that other crap. But you'd be ****ed. Deep down inside. And that would just be awesome, brosef :) Since the punch-people-in-the-face-via-standard-TCP technology is a long ways off, this would be an awesome substitute.
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:19:00 - [396] The real crime against humanity here is 40 pages of circular bickering. I think everyone has made their point.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:27:00 - [397] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Nah. It's not "arbitrary". If CCP sees that GS is legitimately causing them to lose players (let's just for now assume this is the case - who knows if it's really true). They're a business and at some point they're not going to allow a bunch of idiots to ruin their playerbase. If that happened (again, if) - what would you rather have happen? They change the game mechanics so you can't even fire a gun in high-sec, or having the d0uchebags who forced the situation take it right up the ass? I know which I'd prefer. In the 6 years Eve's been running, they've never had to do this before (possibly excepting the MoO thing). Why not make it fun and grief the griefers? Hahaha... aaaah, yeah, the old "CCP will come beat up the griefers for us" daydream. Please, good carebear. You're vastly overstating the importance of your ilk to this game community. Eve has proven over and over, that for every one of you that quits from grief, three badass griefers join up because they read about how hard you got sacked. Carebears die, subscription numbers fly. Your blood is the fuel for this expansion. The threats of a miner strike amuse me even more. Are you serious? You people love hitting the rock more than Whitney Houston. I bet you go into withdrawal symptoms if you go for more than two hours without hearing the soothing fzz-fzz-fzz of your mining beams.
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:30:00 - [398] Who says I'm a carebear? I'm blue with GS right now and haven't lived in high sec in nearly a year. That aside - you may THINK that the carebears don't matter. But the economics blog says otherwise. The large majority of players live in high-sec. If it becomes uninhabitable (read : not fun) then that'll have a much bigger impact on CCP's bottom line than boning 5000 very-deserving d0ouchbags who live out in 0.0.
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:34:00 - [399] Edited by: Chirruper on 04/03/2008 01:34:23 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Eve has proven over and over, that for every one of you that quits from grief, three badass griefers join up because they read about how hard you got sacked. This. Guilty as charged (I'm new).
Maor Raor	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:37:00 - [400] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Hahaha... aaaah, yeah, 13 yearold drivvle. And what makes you somuch a better person than a miner? If a miner continues to mine knowing that there is risk he has already shown the has more balls than the Gankbears that plague this game. This thread is full of the same crap that the old priveter threads were full of. GankBears highfiveing eachother and trying to impress with their uber carebear flames. this more than anything tells me that its in for a Nerf.

Scoundrelus Dark Tornado Synchr0nicity	Posted - 2008.03.04 01:37:00 - [401] I am a disgusting filthy STD ridden pirate, and I think that it has become far too dangerous for carebears in high sec. In high sec you don't know who your enemies are till your dead. If you did then we wouldn't have 140 dead exhumers now would we. I think that carebears will find it much safer in low sec as it is less populated and has better ore. Go into low sec, establish a source of isk. Find out who the biggest baddest pirates in your area are and pay them for protection. You will find MANY pirates who not only will leave you alone for isk, but act as bodyguards too. Adding the possibility of danger to your lives will also make the game more exciting, and if your smart you won't die to gatecamps. Give it a shot, move down to low sec. Better ore, better rats, same agents and less danger.
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.04 02:05:00 - [402] You know, something occurred to me as I was driving home from work. Dare I say it - you guys cheering Goons on don't "get" Goons. Bear with me. Goons have stated unequivocally that their desire is to ruin the game. Straight up - that's their goal. Now, a very simple interpretation of that would lead you to the thinking I'm seeing on this thread : "ruin the game....for CAREBEARS. So, who cares! Woohoo!". But that's not their goal. Their goal is to ruin EVE - for the player who love Eve for what it represents. That open, anything goes, PvP centric sandbox that makes it so different from other MMO's. In other words, they are targeting YOU, the guys who appreciate Eve for what it really is. The fact that they've got you cheering along for them to succeed is really why they're so brilliant. They would love nothing more than to force CCP's hand to make things all tied down and completely safe. If they woke up a few years hence and Eve had been nerfed all to hell and was basically WoW in space, they'd think to themselves "mission accomplished". That they got some carebears to whine in the process was just a side bonus. They got to ruin YOUR (you, the hardcore appreciator of Eve) game, and got you to even cheerlead them on. I submit - **** them. Who cares if they and they only get screwed? You think RA and TCF would have a hissy fit if they had to decide on how divide up Goon space?
Avarice Dreams	Posted - 2008.03.04 02:14:00 - [403] Goons have stated unequivocally that their desire is to ruin the game. Straight up - that's their goal. Now, a very simple interpretation of that would lead you to the thinking I'm seeing on this thread : "ruin the game....for CAREBEARS. So, who cares! Woohoo!". But that's not their goal. Their goal is to ruin EVE - for the player who love Eve for what it represents. That open, anything goes, PvP centric sandbox that makes it so different from other MMO's. /signed
FastJack316 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 02:48:00 - [404] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Who says I'm a carebear? I'm blue with GS right now and haven't lived in high sec in nearly a year. This is a damn shame.
Wloire Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.04 03:10:00 - [405] Real Wolrd Physics coming into this argument. Can you as a random citizen of whatever country you belong to be shot and killed in front of a police station?
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.04 03:12:00 - [406] Yep. And if it happened 100 times in a week and the guys left their driver's licenses at the scene of the crime, you can be sure there'd be some raids going on :)
FastJack316 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 03:12:00 - [407] Originally by: Wloire Real Wolrd Physics coming into this argument. Can you as a random citizen of whatever country you belong to be shot and killed in front of a police station? What does this have to do with the price of tea in china?
Bart ForHire	Posted - 2008.03.04 03:40:00 - [408] Originally by: Zorlag Edited by: Zorlag on 04/03/2008 00:56:54 Originally by: Cipher7 There comes a point where a small problem becomes a big problem, there comes a point where 1000 subscriptions turns into 100,000 subscriptions. The "I don't care" ideology works both ways, let Eve die then, I don't care either. But guess who cares. CCP. And I believe they will try to nip it in the bud. Just because we got titans nerfed doesn't mean that your opinion means anything at all. edit: And for that matter, who cares about you Empire pubbies at all? Everyone, CCP included, realizes that you'll do whatever meaningless repetitive task to get imaginary space money to do the tasks faster. Then maybe they will solve the problem by baning you entire group from the game. Let's see your group or the lost of 100,000 other players, who are they going to pick?
Spacy Tracy	Posted - 2008.03.04 04:53:00 - [409] Originally by: FastJack316 Hey how do you feel about Concord having specific numbers of ships, actual stats, and Empire space being conquerable? Dunno. Never thought about it. I kind of like being able to take a little vacation every once in a while and just tool around empire. Seems to me the huge number of systems in 0.0 should be more than sufficient. No alliance has ever been able to hold more than, say 50% so why add more? Quote: Probably about the same as I feel about your ******** idea. fofofofofo
FastJack316 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 05:04:00 - [410] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Dunno. Never thought about it. I kind of like being able to take a little vacation every once in a while and just tool around empire. Seems to me the huge number of systems in 0.0 should be more than sufficient. No alliance has ever been able to hold more than, say 50% so why add more? missin da point itt

Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.04 05:31:00 - [411] I hate it when others force their will upon the weak. I hope they fail, and if I can, I will do what I can to ensure their failure. See you on the field ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Grendelsbane	Posted - 2008.03.04 05:32:00 - [412] Edited by: Grendelsbane on 04/03/2008 05:34:04 Quote: You speak of sweet carebear tears, have you ever figured what would happend if noone buildt stuff in this game? No then go get a clue. Well, if "no one" built ships and modules and ammo, or mined ore or ice, then we'd probably have a problem. But if the lazy, non-teamworkin', I'm-going-to-tool-about-empire-where-I-can-frolic-in-false-safety-and-play-singleplayer-EVE carebears stopped doing all that... well, then the adults would simply do it themselves and drive on. They are, after all, the pilots who actully have their ^%#& together and are out in 0.0 space, pulling off very difficult things against very determined enemies. I think they can handle having to take a time out to laser a few rocks. I mean, maybe it's a shock, but some pilots are actually willing to do things they don't like, or that are dangerous or boring, in order to attain a larger goal. People keep going on and on about "hey, don't pick on us, you NEEEEED us carebears!". That's crap. We don't need carebears, we need someone to man the barge and stuff the BP's in the oven. Anyone can do this; we certainly don't need the pilots who cannot work as a team, unless we're running short on target drones. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of competent and shrewd players who sit around in empire all day, laser rocks, and run missions and brag about how l337 they are... but there are a hell of a lot more who do that because it's their only option.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.04 05:49:00 - [413] Originally by: Grendelsbane Edited by: Grendelsbane on 04/03/2008 05:34:04 Quote: You speak of sweet carebear tears, have you ever figured what would happend if noone buildt stuff in this game? No then go get a clue. Well, if "no one" built ships and modules and ammo, or mined ore or ice, then we'd probably have a problem. But if the lazy, non-teamworkin', I'm-going-to-tool-about-empire-where-I-can-frolic-in-false-safety-and-play-singleplayer-EVE carebears stopped doing all that... well, then the adults would simply do it themselves and drive on. They are, after all, the pilots who actully have their ^%#& together and are out in 0.0 space, pulling off very difficult things against very determined enemies. I think they can handle having to take a time out to laser a few rocks. I mean, maybe it's a shock, but some pilots are actually willing to do things they don't like, or that are dangerous or boring, in order to attain a larger goal. People keep going on and on about "hey, don't pick on us, you NEEEEED us carebears!". That's crap. We don't need carebears, we need someone to man the barge and stuff the BP's in the oven. Anyone can do this; we certainly don't need the pilots who cannot work as a team, unless we're running short on target drones. Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of competent and shrewd players who sit around in empire all day, laser rocks, and run missions and brag about how l337 they are... but there are a hell of a lot more who do that because it's their only option. applauds with gusto0 --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 05:54:00 - [414] Originally by: Spacy Tracy Ok, so just make it Concord. The 4 empires have decided that GS has started having too great of an economic impact on their sovereign areas (true in both the real-life and Eve-life sense). So, they send in unstoppable CONCORD to teach the Goons a lesson. So you want concord to play the game for you Carebears.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 06:08:00 - [415] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 04/03/2008 06:11:08 You know, I kinda wonder. People talking about all the "lost" subscriptions and stuff....with the various newbee drives that Goonswarm has done, is there any other single player entity in Eve that has been directly responsible for more subscriptions than GS? Originally by: Spacy Tracy Goons have stated unequivocally that their desire is to ruin the game. Straight up - that's their goal. So, when exactly did we "say" this? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Surfin's PlunderBunny Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 06:52:00 - [416] Originally by: An Anarchyyt Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 04/03/2008 06:11:08 You know, I kinda wonder. People talking about all the "lost" subscriptions and stuff....with the various newbee drives that Goonswarm has done, is there any other single player entity in Eve that has been directly responsible for more subscriptions than GS? Originally by: Spacy Tracy Goons have stated unequivocally that their desire is to ruin the game. Straight up - that's their goal. So, when exactly did we "say" this? I think it was on a 'Wired' article actually... Originally by: Avaricia look a goon lol
Fofalus III ELEMENTS	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:01:00 - [417] Originally by: Surfin's PlunderBunny Originally by: An Anarchyyt Originally by: Spacy Tracy Goons have stated unequivocally that their desire is to ruin the game. Straight up - that's their goal. So, when exactly did we "say" this? I think it was on a 'Wired' article actually... I think that was Sir Molle actually.
Sarakiel	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:04:00 - [418] Keep it up goons. Make them feel safe nowhere.
Jane Err	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:28:00 - [419] Actually there is no exploit but there is a problem. CCP should allow t2 ships to be insured for fair market price, or what the ship is worth in materials, not what the price is for the base ship. If a hulk could be insured for what it is worth there would be no real reason to whine on and on. This is ofcourse a problem with all t2 ships but has been brought to light with the hulk hunt going on atm.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:30:00 - [420] Originally by: Jane Err Actually there is no exploit but there is a problem. CCP should allow t2 ships to be insured for fair market price, or what the ship is worth in materials, not what the price is for the base ship. If a hulk could be insured for what it is worth there would be no real reason to whine on and on. This is ofcourse a problem with all t2 ships but has been brought to light with the hulk hunt going on atm. So if we get T2 insurance then we can safely suicide gank using hacs and command ships for only a few mil lost each gank? ROFLno. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------

gallente OU812	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:43:00 - [421] Actually zeba you missed my point. My post isn't about 'fixing the goon problem'. There is no goon problem. My point is t2 ship should be able to be properly insured. That's it. It has nothing to do with goons.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:48:00 - [422] Originally by: gallente OU812 Actually zeba you missed my point. My post isn't about 'fixing the goon problem'. There is no goon problem. My point is t2 ship should be able to be properly insured. That's it. It has nothing to do with goons. Irrelevant. Fully insured T2 ships would be the plauge of every battlefield. How the hell are you gonna have a war of attrition if your enemy just goes "lulz I waz insurde. I only lost 15 minutes of ratting in isk hurhur^^:B" --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Jane Err	Posted - 2008.03.04 07:55:00 - [423] LOL, since when is plague a bad thing. Besides, didn't goonswarm pioneer the idea that a blob of t1 can 'plague' a battlefield?
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.04 08:04:00 - [424] Originally by: Jane Err LOL, since when is plague a bad thing. Besides, didn't goonswarm pioneer the idea that a blob of t1 can 'plague' a battlefield? T1 is one thing due to its average tank and decent dps. You need alot of them to be effective. T2 on the other hand with its uber resists and painful dps are something you don't want to see in throwaway ganks or ongoing alliance warfare. T2 insurance would completely obsolete the entire T1 line of ships due to the new cost effectiveness of risking your T2 in battle with no risk that couldn't be overcome by an hour or so ratting in 0.0 or a few level 4 missions. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.04 09:19:00 - [425] I think it was explained somewhere at sometime that CONCORD is not the police. They aren't protecting people's lives, they're just popping ships that don't follow the standard operating procedures of killing people. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.04 09:30:00 - [426] 400 exhumers since feb 12 is exactly what percentage of of total high sec exhumers? Anyway, the GoonSwarm are playing yankie corporate neo-con, control the basis of the engine of production if not by possession then by terror or coersion and you control the world. Also notice how all the losses the goon alliance suffered by suicide are not listed on thier operation board, another neo-con trick to fool both us and thier worker bee's. They don't even honour thier martyrs so they know its a shamefull act and not a struggle. The only point raised regards the game engine is that "A Concord kill should VIOD the criminals insurance" Every thing else is geo-politics with the NPC states being too frightened to acknowledge that war in a phyicial and ecomonic sense has been declared on them, but maybe their forces are using the more appropriate and less visible police route instead of the military overkill route as its more effect against terror.
Sam Ryder	Posted - 2008.03.04 09:37:00 - [427] Tbh I cant see what the problem is. Ive been a carebear for a year or so on quite a few accounts. In 6 months or so I can afford a Titan, Atm I can afford a deadspace fitted mothership or two. So how bad is it if they kill a couple hulks? Let the goons play, apparantly 0.0 isnt fun after theyve blobbed it to pieces with their 3 - 4 mil sp t1 cruiser pilots The fun here is when all those very able commandship pilots takes their 65 billion isk and joins the side who fights goons. This is what I would want to see..
Raekone	Posted - 2008.03.04 09:51:00 - [428] You OMG ADAPT people are so ridiculously clueless it's actually funny. lol. If someone puts into practise to regularly and reliably blow up people in highsec, then 1) CCP are more than likely to change the game mechanics to accommodate the industrialists. 2) CCP are more than likely to change the game mechanics to accommodate the industrialists. 3) CCP are more than likely to change the game mechanics to accommodate the industrialists. 4) CCP are more than likely to change the game mechanics to accommodate the industrialists. 5) CCP are more than likely to change the game mechanics to accommodate the industrialists. So basically in the end everyone except the miners will suffer. Or is this difficult to understand? So as a quick bit of fun, blowing up miners is good - but as some kind of bold statement against carebear miners and the security of highsec it just plain fails
Krebbs GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 10:38:00 - [429] Edited by: Krebbs on 04/03/2008 10:44:15 Edited by: Krebbs on 04/03/2008 10:40:30 Interesting to see Hulk miners on both sides of the fence here. I noticed that the ones screaming the loudest for CCP to intervene at the same time refuse to take measures to protect their investment. Those that do are either indifferent or happy to see other miners getting blown up (Less Competition). All it takes to reduce your risk is drop your mining laser upgrades in favor of a proper tank. The ISK you keep from not having to replace your ship should far outweigh the extra 1~2 mil per hour you get with upgrades. Also, lets be realistic. At any given moment there are maybe 15-20 suicide gankers killing exhumers in hisec (Yeah, I pulled it out of my *, but even that seems a little high). There are approximately a lot more than 20 systems you could be mining in RELATIVE** safety. I'd bet money that most if not all of them are in heavily populated mining systems looking for soft targets. Is it that hard to go one or two jumps out of your way to avoid traffic and suicide gankers? P.S. Show me a serious post from a GS director saying we are out to destroy the game, and I will believe your BS. (CAOD doesn't count)
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.04 10:51:00 - [430] Originally by: Krebbs Edited by: Krebbs on 04/03/2008 10:44:15 approximately a lot more than 20 I dunno man you seem awfully sure of that number. But anyway, what are you nuts? Shut up already! I spent plenty of time searching out low traffic, high yield systems and a lot more time than that (approximately) grinding tax break missions for unpopular (and rightly so) NPC corps precisely so I wouldn't have to put up with the yammering nincompoops you're now trying to foist off on me. For shame sir, for shame. You are truly the most grievous griefer of the lot. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."

Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:01:00 - [431] Goons are the first power in eve history that is both strong enough and have the proper resolution and midset to chalange empire. THis goon movment might be the best thing that ever happened in eve. Of course will not run forever, eventually they will get bored. But its Needed. Eve should have at most 20% of its people living in empire, because they are not strogn enough to go out. People mining in barges in high sec are very very very suspicious to me. Why woudl anyone, except ifyou are reaaally adicted to mining (a.ka chriba) stay mining in high sec? Well because you are a macro or you need to do it 23/7 to sell it. Of course there are exceptions, and fair players. But i feel they are the minority of high sec barge players.
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:13:00 - [432] Hey, I absolutely love what Goonswarm is doing, I caught my first Hulk today in a low-sec belt. The noob went mining to Tama, of all the places. There's probably 100ish ship deaths there every day and just four belts (the only system which is worse then it is really Amamake (which is madness). What's not to love about what they're doing? ;) Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Nianda SeCann	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:15:00 - [433] Originally by: Jane Err LOL, since when is plague a bad thing. Besides, didn't goonswarm pioneer the idea that a blob of t1 can 'plague' a battlefield? no wasn't them, that idea was round back when most of the goonies were thin. Long time ago judging by thier membership vid
flakeys Tier 3 Technologies Inc Lazy is our middle name	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:15:00 - [434] Originally by: Merin Ryskin And I will repeat my offer again: To those of you who are threatening to strike/quit/whatever, please do so. Don't just threaten, do it right now. To help you strike this blow against CCP, I will remove the temptation to ever return to EVE. Assuming your character is able to fly a Hulk, I will give you a month's subscription to the MMORPG of your choice in exchange for it. Now, either take the deal, or shut up about how you're going to quit and screw all of us PvPers. Your empty threats are just irritating. Ah crap must have missed that one.I ordered POTBS allready last night so uhm....can i get a refund from you?
Anita Pakonen	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:30:00 - [435] All barges/exhumers must be cleansed out of the empire space.
Keden Minmatar Black Company Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:37:00 - [436] Carebears arent people, they are just giant floating pinatas
Gealbhan Caldari The SAS The Kano Organisation	Posted - 2008.03.04 11:50:00 - [437] Nowhere in Eve is 100% safe and I like that fact. Yes, I feel sorry for someone that just got their Hulk or whatever and it gets splattered but that's life in Eve-o. My only fear is enough people will whine and empire will be made totally non-pvp except for war declarations & that would bight. In a perverse kind of way it could be Goon trying to rid empire of macro miners? I can see it now on EvE-TV, the Killer Bees swarm is moving through (system name) lock your windows and stay inside! "Concentrate all your fire on one target, when it is destroyed, move on to the next. That is how you secure victory". - Tactica Imperium.
Oriella Trikassi Trikassi Enterprises	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:12:00 - [438] Originally by: Seishomaru People mining in barges in high sec are very very very suspicious to me. My mining alt does so. She doesn't sell the ore, she mines for her Corp. She's also a factory slave so she can't base herself out in the wilds, she just pops out and mines when I'm doing other things, like reading forums. Since it's just her she's not emptying fields and depriving newbies of anything. It would be no meaningful loss for her to be ganked, though I might start quibbling and call her into the office for a chat if it got to a Hulk a day! If the Goons or anyone else enjoy running around annoying people that's fine with me and entirely within the spirit of Eve. There is little competition in my chosen Eve occupations, and I'd welcome more of it. --- Trikassi Enterprises, oiling the jumpgates of commerce without microbidding.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:16:00 - [439] Originally by: Wloire Real Wolrd Physics coming into this argument. Can you as a random citizen of whatever country you belong to be shot and killed in front of a police station? Considering how inept or outright corrupt the law is in most of the world you so gladly suggested as an RL reference, I propose that you, a random citizen of whatever country, are just as likely to be shot IN the police station as in front of it. I think CONCORD's pretty realistic in this regard. Like most law enforcement agencies, they're thoroughly inept and excessively brutal. They'll gladly wipe out a battleship crew of six thousand because their vessel shot an inanimate cargo can, but won't respond fast enough to save a dying miner. I also think the cries of these bleating carebears will go as unheard as the cries of Kitty Genovese in 1964 New York - now that's a real world allegory you should look up.
Seishomaru	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:22:00 - [440] Originally by: Oriella Trikassi Originally by: Seishomaru People mining in barges in high sec are very very very suspicious to me. My mining alt does so. She doesn't sell the ore, she mines for her Corp. She's also a factory slave so she can't base herself out in the wilds, she just pops out and mines when I'm doing other things, like reading forums. Since it's just her she's not emptying fields and depriving newbies of anything. It would be no meaningful loss for her to be ganked, though I might start quibbling and call her into the office for a chat if it got to a Hulk a day! If the Goons or anyone else enjoy running around annoying people that's fine with me and entirely within the spirit of Eve. There is little competition in my chosen Eve occupations, and I'd welcome more of it. there is the point! You use it to "play afk" CCP devs stated several times this game is not to be played afk and they usually make things to make life as hard as possible for afk players.

Whineroy	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:25:00 - [441] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I also think the cries of these bleating carebears will go as unheard as the cries of Kitty Genovese in 1964 New York - now that's a real world allegory you should look up. Bleating carebears... And here, kids and adults, is yet another textbook example of some "pirates" at Eve being nothing more than people who have hard time in RL and who have to compensate for that by having power trips at online games (and without a pair to admit that they are having such power trips). Especially considering the fact that anyone with more than one brain cell realizes that Goons themselves are just as much carebears in this issue as their victims (ISK loss is minimal and sec status can be got back in few hours), just that admitting that would ruin all those beautiful "me big bad, that means me > all the f00king n00b carebears"- fantasies. Sad, yet also funny.
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:30:00 - [442] Originally by: Whineroy Bleating carebears... And here, kids and adults, is yet another textbook example of some "pirates" at Eve being nothing more than people who have hard time in RL and who have to compensate for that by having power trips at online games (and without a pair to admit that they are having such power trips). Especially considering the fact that anyone with more than one brain cell realizes that Goons themselves are just as much carebears in this issue as their victims (ISK loss is minimal and sec status can be got back in few hours), just that admitting that would ruin all those beautiful "me big bad, that means me > all the f00king n00b carebears"- fantasies. Sad, yet also funny. Wrong. Some people just see the absurdity in applying humanitarian ethics to virtual property. Its called the thrill of the hunt.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:31:00 - [443] Yes, it's true. I have never had a job/friend/girlfriend/life/degree from school, and infact, live in a basement and all the light I get is from the computer screen. You have totally pegged us all, with your expert Jungian analysis. I'm gonna go cry now. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Cpt Branko Surge. Night's Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:32:00 - [444] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 04/03/2008 13:32:36 Originally by: Whineroy Bleating carebears... And here, kids and adults, is yet another textbook example of some "pirates" at Eve being nothing more than people who have hard time in RL and who have to compensate... blah blah blah, they all live in mother's basement and compensate for their small e-peen by ganking poor innocents, blah blah Well, see, that's a bleating carebear (and a truly superb psychologist, at that, all carebears seem to be!) While suicide ganking is not very risky ISK-wise (I mean, the ship loss you've already accepted and fitted accordingly plus got premium insurance), partaking in not very risky schemes does not define someone as a carebear. Look at who's pulluting the forums by 'I got ganked, nerf!'? Bleating carebear tears would not be as tasty if they weren't crying/whining about it so much. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:32:00 - [445] after enjoying a fine dining experience in nol goonswarm returns the favor to bob by not only making bob market dominance more profitable but also bringing them very determined applicants Trashed sig, Shark was here
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:41:00 - [446] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I also think the cries of these bleating carebears will go as unheard as the cries of Kitty Genovese in 1964 New York - now that's a real world allegory you should look up. Every time I read about that it makes my blood boil
so broke	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:48:00 - [447] All I ask is for CCP give me one more highslot on the Hulk.... I need a gun.
Barbaro55a Caldari Amesha Spentaz Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:48:00 - [448] Originally by: hangnoose LOOK LOOK I'M CARING! Wait........... no i'm not. Quoting from front page.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:49:00 - [449] Originally by: flakeys Originally by: Merin Ryskin And I will repeat my offer again: To those of you who are threatening to strike/quit/whatever, please do so. Don't just threaten, do it right now. To help you strike this blow against CCP, I will remove the temptation to ever return to EVE. Assuming your character is able to fly a Hulk, I will give you a month's subscription to the MMORPG of your choice in exchange for it. Now, either take the deal, or shut up about how you're going to quit and screw all of us PvPers. Your empty threats are just irritating. Ah crap must have missed that one.I ordered POTBS allready last night so uhm....can i get a refund from you? If you can fly a hulk decently I'll be more than happy to purchase your character in exchange for a month of potbs if merin doesn't follow through.
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:50:00 - [450] Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 04/03/2008 13:52:29 Originally by: Whineroy Bleating carebears... And here, kids and adults, is yet another textbook example of some "pirates" at Eve being nothing more than people who have hard time in RL and who have to compensate for that by having power trips at online games (and without a pair to admit that they are having such power trips). Admit it? I've only been admitting it for the past four years of playing Eve. I even admitted it on national TV. I am not a pirate, I am a griefer - and I loathe your kind. I would much rather kill a defenceless, bleating, terrified carebear than an equally skilled PVPer. The PVPer is not satisfying to kill - he will simply say 'gg' and get on with life. Not the carebear. The carebear will scream, hiss, spit, threaten your life, petition you, fill evemails and forum posts with such wonderful vitriol and hatred... mmm. I relish it, like a delectable wine. I draw succour from your misery. After all, why hurt it if it won't scream? I look forward to your next psychoanalysis :>

Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:51:00 - [451] Originally by: SiJira after enjoying a fine dining experience in nol goonswarm returns the favor to bob by not only making bob market dominance more profitable but also bringing them very determined applicants If the node could take the load bob would already be buried. But hey they must be living sieged and cornered like a vile rat.
Poreuomai Minmatar Naval Protection Corp	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:51:00 - [452] Originally by: Seishomaru there is the point! You use it to "play afk" CCP devs stated several times this game is not to be played afk and they usually make things to make life as hard as possible for afk players. My corp mate wasn't afk and still got suicided. Such is EVE ...
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:55:00 - [453] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: SiJira after enjoying a fine dining experience in nol goonswarm returns the favor to bob by not only making bob market dominance more profitable but also bringing them very determined applicants If the node could take the load bob would already be buried. But hey they must be living sieged and cornered like a vile rat. yes because if a dozen caps and battleships and 500 t1 frigs and cruisers cant do it then a dozen caps and battleships and 2000 t1 frigs and cruisers will be able to do it for sure Trashed sig, Shark was here
Jin Gle Gallente The Topal Corporation	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:56:00 - [454] Why the JihadSwarm gimmick? Is this funny to Americans/goons/anybody? I dont find it offensive or anything. Just horribly unfunny. You're not doing much justice to SA. ps. :)=~~ Space Lion
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 13:59:00 - [455] Originally by: SiJira yes because if a dozen caps and battleships and 500 t1 frigs and cruisers cant do it then a dozen caps and battleships and 2000 t1 frigs and cruisers will be able to do it for sure yes exactly as you say
Chirruper	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:00:00 - [456] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Not the carebear. The carebear will scream, hiss, spit, threaten your life, petition you, fill evemails and forum posts with such wonderful vitriol and hatred... mmm. I relish it, like a delectable wine. I draw succour from your misery. After all, why hurt it if it won't scream? A man after my own heart
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:04:00 - [457] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Not the carebear. The carebear will scream, hiss, spit, threaten your life, petition you, fill evemails and forum posts with such wonderful vitriol and hatred... And they are the "good" guys...?
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:10:00 - [458] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: SiJira yes because if a dozen caps and battleships and 500 t1 frigs and cruisers cant do it then a dozen caps and battleships and 2000 t1 frigs and cruisers will be able to do it for sure yes exactly as you say the sad thing is you arent even a goon alt you are just a wannabe goon even goons would be disgusted Trashed sig, Shark was here
Slez Caldari R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:22:00 - [459] Edited by: Slez on 04/03/2008 14:22:15 The OP made me laugh. You played WoW didnt you? Learn, adapt, overcome, or gtfo.
Kalokankorm	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:25:00 - [460] Try to look at this in broader sense. It's pretty easy to find that suicide killing exhumers in highsec is not only fun... But might also have a logical reason. Now that goons control so much space, it would be pretty healthy for them to drive mineral and ice products prices up.

Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:43:00 - [461] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: SiJira yes because if a dozen caps and battleships and 500 t1 frigs and cruisers cant do it then a dozen caps and battleships and 2000 t1 frigs and cruisers will be able to do it for sure yes exactly as you say the sad thing is you arent even a goon alt you are just a wannabe goon even goons would be disgusted And I give a flying longcat about what goons think. Besides they are too busy circle jerking in their forums to think at all. Funnily enough they've still managed to kick bob into submission.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:45:00 - [462] Originally by: Nasta443 Funnily enough they've still managed to kick bob into submission. they enjoyed a nice picnic with bob and thats why they are now in empire ganking miners Trashed sig, Shark was here
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:46:00 - [463] I think it's still too hard to suicide exhumers mining. It only takes one battlecruiser, but that's one battlecruiser too many. Couldn't we make them suicidable by noob ships? Or better yet, just explode as soon as anyone else enters local?
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 14:51:00 - [464] Originally by: Ulstan I think it's still too hard to suicide exhumers mining. It only takes one battlecruiser, but that's one battlecruiser too many. Couldn't we make them suicidable by noob ships? Or better yet, just explode as soon as anyone else enters local? yeah and remove those silly mid slots and shield resistances they get so they cant tank anything at all Trashed sig, Shark was here
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:01:00 - [465] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Nasta443 Funnily enough they've still managed to kick bob into submission. they enjoyed a nice picnic with bob and thats why they are now in empire ganking miners I hear that losing region after region gives you mad cooking skills.
Mr Broker	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:06:00 - [466] Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:13:00 - [467] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Nasta443 Funnily enough they've still managed to kick bob into submission. they enjoyed a nice picnic with bob and thats why they are now in empire ganking miners I hear that losing region after region gives you mad cooking skills. i hear the typical way of winning a war is to let your enemy keep their most valuable assets and in leave them in high morale after a failed campaign and then to start a war against very weak targets Trashed sig, Shark was here
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:15:00 - [468] Originally by: Jin Gle Why the JihadSwarm gimmick? Is this funny to Americans/goons/anybody? I dont find it offensive or anything. Just horribly unfunny. You're not doing much justice to SA. ps. :)=~~ SA/Goon members are from all over the world so I imagine that lots of different nationalities think its funneh/stupid/meh. No one country has a monopoly on arsehats and trolls after all. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:17:00 - [469] Their jihad thing doesn't offend me. I just find it terribly cliched and uninspired. Quote: yeah and remove those silly mid slots and shield resistances they get so they cant tank anything at all Actually I'd prefer if every exhumer came with a pith A type small shield booster standard. It wouldn't save them, but it sure would make ganking them a whoooole lot more lucrative.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:24:00 - [470] Originally by: Ulstan Their jihad thing doesn't offend me. I just find it terribly cliched and uninspired. Quote: yeah and remove those silly mid slots and shield resistances they get so they cant tank anything at all Actually I'd prefer if every exhumer came with a pith A type small shield booster standard. It wouldn't save them, but it sure would make ganking them a whoooole lot more lucrative. signed Trashed sig, Shark was here

Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:26:00 - [471] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Nasta443 I hear that losing region after region gives you mad cooking skills. i hear the typical way of winning a war is to let your enemy keep their most valuable assets and in leave them in high morale after a failed campaign and then to start a war against very weak targets I hear that there are some unsatisfied customers of Bob's Morale Uplifting Pep Talks around the block. Or should I say pyramid.
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:30:00 - [472] Originally by: Nasta443 I hear that there are some unsatisfied customers of Bob's Morale Uplifting Pep Talks around the block. Or should I say pyramid. bob it is then Trashed sig, Shark was here
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 15:53:00 - [473] So....GHSC is still active? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:08:00 - [474] Originally by: An Anarchyyt So....GHSC is still active? Active and gainfully employed ;)
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:13:00 - [475] Edited by: An Anarchyyt on 04/03/2008 16:13:34 Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: An Anarchyyt So....GHSC is still active? Active and gainfully employed ;) Not bad. I think I should switch careers. Although being highly visible and annoying at the same time has its rewards as well. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Busnis	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:17:00 - [476] For all those that think ganking all the miners is a good idea.... Wait till you see how much your BS,BC,Ect. will cost after it takes its toll on the market. Don't want to see any threads about the cost of ships after all this...
lord mouse	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:18:00 - [477] I donÆt mind goons doing what they do. What I do mind is the real live religion crap they bring/speak in local while doing it. Allah doesn't care you killed a miner in high sec space, and people are offended by "you" involving a RL religion into the game.
Desiderata Fabian GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:19:00 - [478] This thread is the best thread, it has everything you could want all in one package.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:20:00 - [479] Originally by: Busnis For all those that think ganking all the miners is a good idea.... Wait till you see how much your BS,BC,Ect. will cost after it takes its toll on the market. Don't want to see any threads about the cost of ships after all this... veld has a price cap macro miner isk sellers will mine ganks or no ganks nothing's gonna change
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:23:00 - [480] Originally by: Jin Gle Why the JihadSwarm gimmick? Is this funny to Americans/goons/anybody? I dont find it offensive or anything. Just horribly unfunny. You're not doing much justice to SA. ps. :)=~~ I find it quite funny, FYI. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.

Busnis	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:24:00 - [481] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: Busnis For all those that think ganking all the miners is a good idea.... Wait till you see how much your BS,BC,Ect. will cost after it takes its toll on the market. Don't want to see any threads about the cost of ships after all this... veld has a price cap macro miner isk sellers will mine ganks or no ganks nothing's gonna change Really whats the cap on veld?
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:25:00 - [482] Edited by: Nasta443 on 04/03/2008 16:25:10 Originally by: Busnis Really whats the cap on veld? Shuttles. 3.6 isk per trit
Busnis	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:27:00 - [483] nice boost from 2.3 to 3.6 don't you think?
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:29:00 - [484] Originally by: Busnis nice boost from 2.3 to 3.6 don't you think? if you think gs caused that you are just funny Trashed sig, Shark was here
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:30:00 - [485] Goonies must not have made it to Auvergne yet. I was pirating there last night, and the first 7 belts were empty of roids, with a stalled macro-miner Hulk just floating there in each one. Some with TWO Hulks. Just floating there, waiting for a suicider.
Busnis	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:33:00 - [486] Originally by: SiJira Originally by: Busnis nice boost from 2.3 to 3.6 don't you think? if you think gs caused that you are just funny Not just GS that caused it..Look at the bigger picture here all the PPl that buy up all the trit ect. and run it up to jita..There going to be fighting for it do to there not getting the amounts there used too. Also do you think macrominers only mine velds??
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:41:00 - [487] I AM OFFENDED! EVERYONE DROP EVERYTHING, I HAVE BEEN OFFENDED.
Dimitry Kalashnikov The Black Fleet	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:42:00 - [488] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I AM OFFENDED! EVERYONE DROP EVERYTHING, I HAVE BEEN OFFENDED. Damn, you got the irony. I mean wow, are you just dumb or something?
SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:42:00 - [489] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu I AM OFFENDED! EVERYONE DROP EVERYTHING, I HAVE BEEN OFFENDED. i am also offended because the jihadswarm requires more coverage and suport Trashed sig, Shark was here
lord mouse	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:45:00 - [490] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Edited by: Istvaan Shogaatsu on 04/03/2008 16:39:48 Originally by: lord mouse I donÆt mind goons doing what they do. What I do mind is the real live religion crap they bring/speak in local while doing it. Allah doesn't care you killed a miner in high sec space, and people are offended by "you" involving a RL religion into the game. Then um... stop being offended. Really, you'll breathe easier if you're not getting pissed off by proxy over things that don't even affect you. Isn't it against some rule/policy of CCP, to bring RL politics or regligion into the game?

SiJira	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:46:00 - [491] Edited by: SiJira on 04/03/2008 16:46:34 Originally by: lord mouse Isn't it against some rule/policy of CCP, to bring RL politics or regligion into the game? jihadswarm is about clearing the holy land of caldari amarr and gallente from dirty carebears Trashed sig, Shark was here
Guillome Renard	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:47:00 - [492] Originally by: lord mouse Isn't it against some rule/policy of CCP, to bring RL politics or regligion into the game? You know what? You're right! EVERYONE STOP TALKING ABOUT CORPORATIONS, ALLIANCES, OR THE ENTIRE AMARR NATION! There's corporations, alliances, and the Catholic church IRL too! HONOES!1!!!1!11shiftone. :P (Sorry, but this one had to be said)
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:49:00 - [493] I am offended at using words that may have some sort of connotations in some sort of other case, in some specific topic that is in no way related to Eve. Words/phrases that I never wanna hear: Final Solution It Doing it It is done Any religion God Jesus Amarr Guns Shooting Killing Cloning War Death Crusade Guidebot I demand all these be immediatly censored, as they are offensive to me! Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:49:00 - [494] Originally by: lord mouse Isn't it against some rule/policy of CCP, to bring RL politics or regligion into the game? then hows that theres an alliance full of people with flags of their country in their bios? and in their alliance names? and corps?
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.03.04 16:54:00 - [495] In Frank Herbert's Dune books, the war waged by Paul Atreides to unify humankind was also called a Jihad. If one kind of science fiction setting can refer to it, why can't another? Or do you get offended by Dune as well ;)
Da Bin	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:02:00 - [496] OK...a noobie here. Apparently all this GS activity is going to send me away...well in the two weeks I've been on here, if anything it has made me a better player. Yes, I'm going through the mining stage with my alt character at the moment with a Gallante Industrial ship and trying to build up funds for further adventures, but it has made me think about how to travel through systems, approach asteroid fields and basically sway things more in my favour....not just with GS and pirates, but researching market trends as well. So from this you can probably gather I have no issues with GS doing this, although I do feel maybe the mechanics of the game could be tweaked to cause a little more pain for those that do decide to take on suicide missions. OK, now I have noticed over the last couple of days that asteroid fields in 0.8 and 0.9 sectors are having their asteroid fields whipped out within hours...and low and behold who should be there but the Exhumers. Actually the impact of this for noobies who are just days into the game has far more severe consequences. Oh well, if GS move into 0.8 and 0.9 space I'll be sitting back, enjoying the fireworks and learning from it...and if I get capped in the process...oh well, you live and learn and there is no pain without gain Besides, I have noticed some that act like the vessels are script mining in these sectors, and if so, well they deserve all they get...that's as out of order as the suicide squads. OK, general ramblings from a noobie, so take with a pinch of salt...
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:10:00 - [497] I would get offended at the notion of planets going around the stars but apparently they sit there motionless so its all ok.
Nohl Faugh a Ballagh	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:11:00 - [498] Originally by: An Anarchyyt I am offended at using words that may have some sort of connotations in some sort of other case, in some specific topic that is in no way related to Eve. Words/phrases that I never wanna hear: Final Solution It Doing it It is done Any religion God Jesus Amarr Guns Shooting Killing Cloning War Death Crusade Guidebot I demand all these be immediatly censored, as they are offensive to me! The final solution is, quite obviously, doing it until it is done. Any religion, any God, any Jesus loving Amarr - none of these will save you from our guns. We'll be shooting you, we'll be killing you, destroying your cloning apparatus... this is war! Death to the crusade, Guidebot forever!
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:25:00 - [499] Originally by: Nohl The final solution is, quite obviously, doing it until it is done. Any religion, any God, any Jesus loving Amarr - none of these will save you from our guns. We'll be shooting you, we'll be killing you, destroying your cloning apparatus... this is war! Death to the crusade, Guidebot forever! Neat. Hail Guidebot! Hail!
Jin Gle Gallente The Topal Corporation	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:31:00 - [500] Edited by: Jin Gle on 04/03/2008 17:31:35 Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Jin Gle Why the JihadSwarm gimmick? Is this funny to Americans/goons/anybody? I dont find it offensive or anything. Just horribly unfunny. You're not doing much justice to SA. ps. :)=~~ I find it quite funny, FYI. Can't argue over taste of course, so lets not I don't like taking things too serious, especially on the internet. They just could've come up with something alot smarter then "Jihad" IMHO. Space Lion

Gothrubo	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:45:00 - [501] Connect two threads sweeping the forums: -"I quit because EVE won't protect me in secure space. Surely CCP will fix this to get their players back" -"EVE should be sharded because its become too crowded and keeps growing" This does not compute.
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 17:50:00 - [502] Originally by: Gothrubo Connect two threads sweeping the forums: -"I quit because EVE won't protect me in secure space. Surely CCP will fix this to get their players back" -"EVE should be sharded because its become too crowded and keeps growing" This does not compute. What they mean is that it should be sharded so that everyone else goes away and they stay.
Dimitry Kalashnikov The Black Fleet	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:00:00 - [503] The fact of the matter is, nobody on this forum has a monopoly on what is offensive and what is not. The EVE Playerbase is made up of many relgiions, cultures, and creeds and what may be offensive to them may not be neccesarily offensive to you. That however gives no one the right to state that something SHOULDN'T be offensive to someone else. I personally find Goonswarm saying that blowing up exhumers is the word of Allah, while someone else will not. Is he wrong for not finding it offensive? No, am I wrong for being offended? No. While impossible to completely abolish this behaviour, people do need to do their best to respect the social, religious and cultural sensitivities of others without trying to dictate to others what should or should not be offensive to them. I mean wow, are you just dumb or something?
N1fty Amarr Galactic Shipyards Inc HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:04:00 - [504] Probably posted already. Miners die, fewer minerals. Mineral prices rise, mining becomes more profitable. Ship prices rise, suicide ganking becomes more expensive. Eventually ships will be too expensive to use in suicide runs. Also goons can't constantly kill miners in empire, their sec-status will fall too low, and they will have to rat for a while to gank some more. I reckon the suicide ganking will reduce as players lose security status. Originally by: CCP Eris Discordia I usually close my eyes and just beg, out loud added with a lot of squealing. I swear it helps.
Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:07:00 - [505] From a game-development perspective, Goonswarm are about as useful to EVE as having a group of two thousand pre-schoolers help you complete the apollo-project. ONE person suiciding is a nessisary evil, dozens or hundreds is abuse and eventually forces the developer to consider changing the game. So next time your favorite ship is nerfed it is the result imbalances (perceieved and otherwize). I have seen this kind of behaviour before, and eventually it leads to one of three things: The offending part gets its will, and it's view of the game rules prevail. I hope the mindset of Goons never become dominant in EVE... (no you may not have my stuff if it does). The developer eventually wakes up and realizes he could spend his time improving the game instead of running around putting out fires. This road leads to an ultimatum and eventually a blanket ban on a group of players who simply dont comply. A state of equilibrium develops. The number of morons is kept down by more mature customers/players. How knows.. the realisation might set in at GSHQ, hey maybe NOT treating your fellow gamers like you do is the wrong way to go. I doubt this will happen since EVE needs GS as much as anyone needs Cancer. So, if you want to help. Simply report GS spamposts. File a petition each tiem you get ganked. Tell CCP "look I know it's not against the rules, but I just think it's unfunny". Be sure to elaborate. Be dispassionate, state your grief and leave it piling up on the desk of the guy doing "customer satisfaction" at CCP - eventually either GS will be told to stop or face ban, or the DEVs change the game so high sec ganking is impossible. Thus we end up with a poorer game for our effort, thank you GoonSwarm...
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:18:00 - [506] Originally by: N1fty Probably posted already. Miners die, fewer minerals. Mineral prices rise, mining becomes more profitable. Ship prices rise, suicide ganking becomes more expensive. Eventually ships will be too expensive to use in suicide runs. In which case industrials and miners should be rejoicing about the recent wave of suiciders.
Zeba Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:21:00 - [507] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: N1fty Probably posted already. Miners die, fewer minerals. Mineral prices rise, mining becomes more profitable. Ship prices rise, suicide ganking becomes more expensive. Eventually ships will be too expensive to use in suicide runs. In which case industrials and miners should be rejoicing about the recent wave of suiciders. 20ish goonies killing a couple of hundred barges will have no effect on production levels of the literally thousands of miners out there. It would suprise me greatly if even a fraction of the greater minerbase even knows anything about the jihadswarm or has seen anyone actually get ganked. --------------------- Q: WTF! Why?! A: Because I can. ---------------------
Nohl Faugh a Ballagh	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:22:00 - [508] Originally by: Schani Kratnorr So, if you want to help. Simply report GS spamposts. File a petition each tiem you get ganked. Tell CCP "look I know it's not against the rules, but I just think it's unfunny". Be sure to elaborate. Be dispassionate, state your grief and leave it piling up on the desk of the guy doing "customer satisfaction" at CCP - eventually either GS will be told to stop or face ban, or the DEVs change the game so high sec ganking is impossible. This is definitely the way to go. Spam the moderators who are already up to their neck in reported posts. Spam the GMs who are already up to their neck in useless petitions. Tell CCP, "hey, i know it's not the game you want, but it's the one I want". Elaborate! Tell them why you're such a gifted little twit that you deserve it! There's no way you can lose with awesomeness like this.
TeddyBr FTW Caldari TeddyBr's Revenge	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:43:00 - [509] The Goons are soon to be dying. Come on over to see why... and how to help out. Goonie Gasbags On Notice: Death Is Coming
Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:46:00 - [510] Quote: Isn't it against some rule/policy of CCP, to bring RL politics or regligion into the game? Not only is that a ******** rule, I don't see how you could enforce it. O.o

Ulstan	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:47:00 - [511] Quote: Goonies must not have made it to Auvergne yet. I was pirating there last night, and the first 7 belts were empty of roids, with a stalled macro-miner Hulk just floating there in each one. Some with TWO Hulks. Just floating there, waiting for a suicider. Did they have anything good equipped? Sounds like I'll need to fly around in my covops a bit tonight :p
Winterblink Body Count Inc. Mercenary Coalition	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:47:00 - [512] Originally by: Ulstan Quote: Isn't it against some rule/policy of CCP, to bring RL politics or regligion into the game? Not only is that a ******** rule, I don't see how you could enforce it. O.o It's not even what's happening here, so why that point even got raised I'll never know. Oh perhaps someone was referring to their video? Oh well. Talk to Youtube. warp drive active \| nature vraie
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:49:00 - [513] Edited by: Nasta443 on 04/03/2008 18:49:09 Originally by: TeddyBr FTW The Goons are soon to be dying. Come on over to see why... and how to help out. Goonie Gasbags On Notice: Death Is Coming That looks like a failthread. btw, yes, i agree they most liekly have no effect. but even if they do, its a good one as i have stated. so pinatas have no reason to complain.
Dingi223	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:51:00 - [514] Edited by: Dingi223 on 04/03/2008 18:55:57 Edited by: Dingi223 on 04/03/2008 18:55:04 Edited by: Dingi223 on 04/03/2008 18:53:53 Edited by: Dingi223 on 04/03/2008 18:51:29 Originally by: Zeba 20ish goonies killing a couple of hundred barges will have no effect on production levels of the literally thousands of miners out there. It would suprise me greatly if even a fraction of the greater minerbase even knows anything about the jihadswarm or has seen anyone actually get ganked. According to the 3rd QEN, there were 5,850 Hulks flying about. Granted, this doesn't count Hulks sitting in hangars unusued, however let's assume this reasonably reflects the serious miners out there. According to the 4th QEN, the production of Hulks was around 4,000 per month for the months of Oct, Nov and Dec '07. It appears then that Hulks have a fairly large turnover, or people are hoarding more and more of them to gather dust. Either way, we have the number. GS have destroyed 400 Exhumers, let's assume 50% are Hulks and 50% are Mack's. So 200 Hulks in 3 weeks odd, let's say 300 a month once we extrapolate the data to a full month. Unfortunately I do not have the data to know out of the Hulks in existence if all are active. I would have to assume CCP's data only includes active subscriptions, and therefore most are active. Summary GS have managed to kill 5% of all Hulks in existence. According to Hulk production, this can be replaced within 3 days, so they have impacted the production cycle by 3 days, or 10% a month. Let's say this again, in 1 month, they have will have killed 3 days worth of production. Sure, some pilots will not be able to simply buy a new Hulk, but more experienced miners and players will, they'll adapt, and keep going I'm sure. Taking a step back, I just don't see how that is going to impact the larger scheme of the economy or mineral prices. In addition, they are only hitting 1 class of mining ship out of many, so the impact on the overall economy is miniscule. I appreciate that they may be enjoying themselves, but it's a drop in the ocean. If they notched this Jihad up a few notches, and got those figures in 20-30% range, then I think you would see a notable squeeze.
Rustiko Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.03.04 18:53:00 - [515] It's actually a brilliant strategy to dominate 0.0. They are mostly targeting ice miners who keep the empire ice costs relatively low. By eliminating or scaring them off the price will increase, making the maintenance and/or taking of 0.0 space using POS's more costly. Large alliances, however, will have enough 'safe' space to be able to mine their own ice in 0.0 or to have resident corps who mine it and put it on the market. I'm guessing this is the plan and in my opinion is a very crafty one. This whole venture is easily financed by one or two Dysprosium moons in 0.0. Either that or they are extremely bored... Does anyone know if you already have existing concord in a belt if the response time is quicker? If you bring an alt in a noob ship and attack yourself you can effectively build up a concord force to protect a belt. Not sure if that increases response time.
DasNara Aethelwulf Blackwater Syndicate ANTHRAX DEATH	Posted - 2008.03.04 19:59:00 - [516] You know, as an idividual that spends probably 80% of his time mining, I mixed feelings on the topic of this thread. part of me is cheering them on. Bot's are a problem, I can't fight very well, so I'm glad that an Alliance is at least trying to do something about it. The interesting question I have is if GS does this too much or if they abuse this, CCP will probably eliminate suicide ganking as an option (I'm not sure that it counts under non-constentual combat; yeah you didn't want it, but if it's allowed, why do you take the sec hit and Concord shoot at you?) They may be thinking about eleiminating Concord so that you can gank anyone anywhere. The worry that I have is I would like to get an Hulk some day, I might end up loosing it to this kind of attack. But then, prices will raise for minerals....It's a mixed bag. The thing about it is that I think this Jihad is a cover to; like the previous post said; raise fuel prices, if that's the case it's brillant. It's not a exploit, it's a legitimate tactic, and I support it as such. If that's the case; I have a suggestion for GS. Until CCP rules on this particular method; use privateers, fiance other corps to do it. Governments do that all the time So for now, No, GoonSwarm is not wrong to do this; as I've stated in the feature forum, they could not kill enough miners to effect anything unless they all do it; But I think that I will root for GS because I can't fight the bots. My left is in retreat, my center is giving way; situation excellent, I attack - Joffe 1916
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.03.04 23:58:00 - [517] Edited by: Jurgen Cartis on 04/03/2008 23:58:19 Originally by: Rustiko It's actually a brilliant strategy to dominate 0.0. They are mostly targeting ice miners who keep the empire ice costs relatively low. By eliminating or scaring them off the price will increase, making the maintenance and/or taking of 0.0 space using POS's more costly. Large alliances, however, will have enough 'safe' space to be able to mine their own ice in 0.0 or to have resident corps who mine it and put it on the market. I'm guessing this is the plan and in my opinion is a very crafty one. This whole venture is easily financed by one or two Dysprosium moons in 0.0. Either that or they are extremely bored... Does anyone know if you already have existing concord in a belt if the response time is quicker? If you bring an alt in a noob ship and attack yourself you can effectively build up a concord force to protect a belt. Not sure if that increases response time. I'm guessing they're extremely bored. Or at least, this wasn't planned, and grew out of some joke among the Goons into a larger set of ganks. Now it looks even bigger because we're making 18 (Edit: 19!) page threads yelling about it. As for CONCORD, I believe they do respond immediately to aggression when they're already in the area. I was in a Kestrel when someone tricked another player (also in a Kestrel) into suicide attacking me. CONCORD spawned and spanked him. A few minutes later in the same belt, a Raven tried to kill me. Only one missile out of his volley actually hit me, and CONCORD proceeded to gank him. Unfortunately he had corpmates nearby, so I couldn't loot him. I did get the salvage though. The funny thing is, I wasn't even carrying anything remotely valuable! -------------------- ICE Blueprint Sales FIRST!! -Yipsilanti Pfft. Never such a thing as a "last chance". ;) -Rauth
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:26:00 - [518] Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:34:00 - [519] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could. It would be amusing if CCP calculated the GTC sales were rising because of the gihadÖ and they therefore decided to let it run... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
umop 3pisdn Minmatar Fnck the blob.	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:39:00 - [520] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could. It would be amusing if CCP calculated the GTC sales were rising because of the gihadÖ and they therefore decided to let it run... I'm not sure if i believe it tbh, in the weeks before the torp nerf I killed several isk farmer haulers and guess what? Entirely full of cruise missile launchers and cruise missile skill books, the isk farmers are well prepared, perhaps this jihadswarm will just cause more isk farming ravens to head to 0.0 or mission farming instead of mining macros. We also killed quite a few isk farmer haulers full of cruise missiles in anchorable containers heading out there, we would get about 20mil per can that dropped so up to 60mil per hauler, but they would keep coming until they got at least 2 haulers through and hidden deeper in 0.0 I have no idea how much money you can make ratting in 1 day if you need 120mil worth of missiles to do it

Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 00:42:00 - [521] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could. It would be amusing if CCP calculated the GTC sales were rising because of the gihadÖ and they therefore decided to let it run... I'm not sure if i believe it tbh, in the weeks before the torp nerf I killed several isk farmer haulers and guess what? Entirely full of cruise missile launchers and cruise missile skill books, the isk farmers are well prepared, perhaps this jihadswarm will just cause more isk farming ravens to head to 0.0 or mission farming instead of mining macros. We also killed quite a few isk farmer haulers full of cruise missiles in anchorable containers heading out there, we would get about 20mil per can that dropped so up to 60mil per hauler, but they would keep coming until they got at least 2 haulers through and hidden deeper in 0.0 I have no idea how much money you can make ratting in 1 day if you need 120mil worth of missiles to do it That's more likely a longer term deplyment then a day. Anyways the best ratting can be done ammo less.
Jair Aequanimitas Gallente Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium STELLAR LEGION	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:11:00 - [522] I have noticed that minerals in my area are more expensive... It seems to be something that happened over the last 3 weeks... not just the last week... but perhaps?
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:15:00 - [523] Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: umop 3pisdn Originally by: Mr Broker Isk prices rising :) Thank you goonies. Already? Goons doing what CCP never could. It would be amusing if CCP calculated the GTC sales were rising because of the gihadÖ and they therefore decided to let it run... I'm not sure if i believe it tbh, in the weeks before the torp nerf I killed several isk farmer haulers and guess what? Entirely full of cruise missile launchers and cruise missile skill books, the isk farmers are well prepared, perhaps this jihadswarm will just cause more isk farming ravens to head to 0.0 or mission farming instead of mining macros. We also killed quite a few isk farmer haulers full of cruise missiles in anchorable containers heading out there, we would get about 20mil per can that dropped so up to 60mil per hauler, but they would keep coming until they got at least 2 haulers through and hidden deeper in 0.0 I have no idea how much money you can make ratting in 1 day if you need 120mil worth of missiles to do it When we hear more crying about how hard it is for solo players to make it in 0.0 then we'll know... CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:27:00 - [524] Wait, people use ammo to rat? --- Join BH-DL Skills
Wloire Macabre Votum Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.03.05 01:53:00 - [525] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Originally by: Wloire Real Wolrd Physics coming into this argument. Can you as a random citizen of whatever country you belong to be shot and killed in front of a police station? Considering how inept or outright corrupt the law is in most of the world you so gladly suggested as an RL reference, I propose that you, a random citizen of whatever country, are just as likely to be shot IN the police station as in front of it. I think CONCORD's pretty realistic in this regard. Like most law enforcement agencies, they're thoroughly inept and excessively brutal. They'll gladly wipe out a battleship crew of six thousand because their vessel shot an inanimate cargo can, but won't respond fast enough to save a dying miner. I also think the cries of these bleating carebears will go as unheard as the cries of Kitty Genovese in 1964 New York - now that's a real world allegory you should look up. See I'm in support of your agument. I believe I failed to mention that in my original post.
ceyriot Crimson Rebellion	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:44:00 - [526] Originally by: Nasta443 Originally by: Relaed Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Says who. Originally by: Relaed losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? You are never assured that in empire you are completely safe. Originally by: Relaed harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. Lag ruins eve online for far more than 140 people and hey, its still there. 1. Says who? says pretty much everyone except you. Its now about 500 exhumers. The game is designed so you are almost safe in empire space. Lag ruins EvE for many people? umm....sure...hopefully you're one of them so you can now quit and gtfo.
Zantrei Kordisin True Centii	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:45:00 - [527] Originally by: Thread Topic Is Goonswarm wrong to target every Exhumer in Empire for nothing? No. It's actually pretty funny, really. I'm a bit of a bastard though, I guess.
Zantrei Kordisin True Centii	Posted - 2008.03.05 02:47:00 - [528] Originally by: ceyriot 1. Says who? says pretty much everyone except you. Its now about 500 exhumers. The game is designed so you are almost safe in empire space. I'm pretty certain that CONCORD is there to like, provide consequences to actions, not to prevent the actions from taking place. Else, it would have been designed differently. There is no 'safe' space. Only 'safer' space. The sooner people understand that high sec isn't supposed to be 100% risk free, the better. All this forum whining is getting rather irritating. Well, actually it's fairly entertaining, provides a lot of opportunity to laugh at the stupidity of others.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:03:00 - [529] Edited by: cal nereus on 05/03/2008 03:04:01 CONCORD and the Faction Fleets are not out to serve and protect. They are out to punish and destroy. They also have a short attention span. And they blob. And they gate camp. And they sometimes shoot people just for entering their space. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:09:00 - [530] Originally by: Zantrei Kordisin I'm pretty certain that CONCORD is there to like, provide consequences to actions, not to prevent the actions from taking place. Else, it would have been designed differently. Suicide ganking has no consequences. Use T1 ship. Insurance pays you. You buy another. No consequences.

Sarakiel	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:26:00 - [531] Originally by: Cipher7 Suicide ganking has no consequences. Use T1 ship. Insurance pays you. You buy another. No consequences. By your logic flying a covetor has no consequences either. The fact is there are consequences no matter what, they only vary by degree of time and money. Keep it up goons.
Barwinius Ars ex Discordia	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:33:00 - [532] DonÆt worry; Goons will be out of sec status sooner or later. 50 down, 5600 to go!
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:34:00 - [533] Originally by: Dingi223 According to the 4th QEN, the production of Hulks was around 4,000 per month for the months of Oct, Nov and Dec '07. It appears then that Hulks have a fairly large turnover, or people are hoarding more and more of them to gather dust. Either way, we have the number. So each month almost every single hulk in the EvE universe is destroyed and a new one is built? The thing to realize here is that some parts like 0.0 will have a large turnover, while high-sec hulks will live for months. --- Author of rTorrent, the BitTorrent client for real men and mice.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:37:00 - [534] More ships are destroyed in empire than in 0.0. So, I suspect more hulks are destroyed in empire than in 0.0 too. I'm calling it now. I have no facts or figures to back it up, but none of you cares about that, so I'm safe. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:41:00 - [535] Originally by: Sarakiel By your logic flying a covetor has no consequences either. If it was insurable that would be true.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.05 03:43:00 - [536] Originally by: cal nereus More ships are destroyed in empire than in 0.0. So, I suspect more hulks are destroyed in empire than in 0.0 too. I'm calling it now. I have no facts or figures to back it up, but none of you cares about that, so I'm safe. Open your map. Set it to "ships destroyed in last 24 hours" See the giant red blob in the middle? That's hisec. Now look at 0.0 See how it's nice and clear? 0.0 is as safe or safer than "high sec."
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.03.05 04:07:00 - [537] Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: Sarakiel By your logic flying a covetor has no consequences either. If it was insurable that would be true. And it is insurable. I would suggest you brush up on Eve before posting.
Banichi Atigieni	Posted - 2008.03.05 04:55:00 - [538] Edited by: Banichi Atigieni on 05/03/2008 04:56:38 Wrong toon.
Gark32 X Bane X	Posted - 2008.03.05 04:58:00 - [539] Carebears, This game is more like Reality than anything you may experience in your entire life. if you're at work, flipping burgers of testing Kleenexes or whatever it is that you do, and someone comes up to you and grabs you what do you do? Fight? Run? Scream bloody murder til someone comes to help? i'm guessing option three. so you scream, and you scream, waah the bad man is hurting me! Eventually the police or a security guard or a five year old or someone will come to help. what you've done then is exactly what you're doing now, to defend yourself: Nothing. Crying to the powers (and five year olds) that be, hoping that someone will do what you're not willing to: Put up your dukes, learn to defend yourself, and stop being a child. you want someone to take you by the hand, walk you to school then to work then back home and tuck you in. guess what? Life isn't like that. Eve isn't like that. Deal with it, or /wrists.
The Mittani GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 05:09:00 - [540] hey guys i'm about to beat celot on the jihadswarm killboard ~BOOYAH~ i have to buy brutixes in bulk im going through them so fast its pretty awesome so hello thread! i am v. happy that you are happy!

Schani Kratnorr Internal Revenue Service	Posted - 2008.03.05 05:26:00 - [541] Originally by: Nohl Originally by: Schani Kratnorr Stuff I wrote (see above) This is definitely the way to go. Spam the moderators who are already up to their neck in reported posts. Spam the GMs who are already up to their neck in useless petitions. Tell CCP, "hey, i know it's not the game you want, but it's the one I want". Elaborate! Tell them why you're such a gifted little twit that you deserve it! There's no way you can lose with awesomeness like this. Wow you seem mad for a GoonSwarm Alt... The validity of a petition or report is perhaps best left up to the actual GM or moderator to decide. Perhaps you were rejected as GM once? do I detect a touch of bitternes? I sound like I care, I really dont. Now go back into your hole GS alt. plonk (that's you being added to the /ignore list) bye bye.
Blank Protection Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.03.05 06:41:00 - [542] Originally by: Relaed http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills Killboard Seems Goonswarm has decided to target and destroy every exhumer they can get their hands on. Over 140 Exhumers in one week so far, and counting.......... There is no war dec or anything, so what is going on CCP?........ What do you folks think? Well what i think is where is you`re sense of humor?? You can always change you`re Exhumer for a tanking Domi with 5 T2 Cargo extenders and go on mining.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 08:06:00 - [543] Ask yourself: what would Chribba do? --- Join BH-DL Skills
techzer0 IDLE GUNS	Posted - 2008.03.05 08:10:00 - [544] Originally by: cal nereus Ask yourself: what would Chribba do? Honor tank. I saw screenies of the veldnaught ------------ Originally by: CCP Mitnal It's great being a puppetmaster
Jack Turrou Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:03:00 - [545] As a miner myself I might actually be rooting for Goonswarm for getting rid of the competition and the macro miners. However, they aren't doing this. In the system where I mine I've seen Goonswarm pop human hulk miners and leave the macro miners alone, intact, and unharmed. I believe it is possible that macro-miners united and paid Goonswarm a huge sum of ISK to attack all the real miners. So no clap clap for this, though the rise in ice prices is welcomed...
Everir Entar	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:21:00 - [546] Originally by: Jack Turrou As a miner myself I might actually be rooting for Goonswarm for getting rid of the competition and the macro miners. However, they aren't doing this. In the system where I mine I've seen Goonswarm pop human hulk miners and leave the macro miners alone, intact, and unharmed. I believe it is possible that macro-miners united and paid Goonswarm a huge sum of ISK to attack all the real miners. So no clap clap for this, though the rise in ice prices is welcomed... Pure Tin Foil Hattery. Conspiracy + 1 If you see a Goon member in your system, just dock.
Vincent La Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:32:00 - [547] Originally by: Jack Turrou As a miner myself I might actually be rooting for Goonswarm for getting rid of the competition and the macro miners. However, they aren't doing this. In the system where I mine I've seen Goonswarm pop human hulk miners and leave the macro miners alone, intact, and unharmed. I believe it is possible that macro-miners united and paid Goonswarm a huge sum of ISK to attack all the real miners. So no clap clap for this, though the rise in ice prices is welcomed... Macro miners tank Pubbies fit rigs and cargo holds A true mystery
Jack Turrou Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:34:00 - [548] Originally by: Vincent La Macro miners tank Pubbies fit rigs and cargo holds A true mystery Ok, I can understand that. But can a Hulk really tank 6-8BCs? I fly a hulk with a shield tank and 6 destroyers almost took me out.
RedlegSA Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:40:00 - [549] Originally by: Jack Turrou I've seen Goonswarm pop human hulk miners and leave the macro miners alone, intact, and unharmed. Many of the ships I have helped destroy have pods that remain in space for several minutes, go dock, then come back out to the belt in a pod, sit there for several minutes - and repeat this for hours. Its pretty funny to watch.
Jack Turrou Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:44:00 - [550] Originally by: RedlegSA Originally by: Jack Turrou I've seen Goonswarm pop human hulk miners and leave the macro miners alone, intact, and unharmed. Many of the ships I have helped destroy have pods that remain in space for several minutes, go dock, then come back out to the belt in a pod, sit there for several minutes - and repeat this for hours. Its pretty funny to watch. Thanks for the info. If this is true then you're doing everyone a service. Happy hunting...

Vincent La Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:48:00 - [551] Edited by: Vincent La on 05/03/2008 18:49:01 Edited by: Vincent La on 05/03/2008 18:48:22 Originally by: Jack Turrou Originally by: Vincent La Macro miners tank Pubbies fit rigs and cargo holds A true mystery Ok, I can understand that. But can a Hulk really tank 6-8BCs? I fly a hulk with a shield tank and 6 destroyers almost took me out. When alone, you die When with friends, out-tank your friends Civilian shields, cripes
Sekket Caldari White-Noise	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:52:00 - [552] Originally by: Vincent La Originally by: Jack Turrou As a miner myself I might actually be rooting for Goonswarm for getting rid of the competition and the macro miners. However, they aren't doing this. In the system where I mine I've seen Goonswarm pop human hulk miners and leave the macro miners alone, intact, and unharmed. I believe it is possible that macro-miners united and paid Goonswarm a huge sum of ISK to attack all the real miners. So no clap clap for this, though the rise in ice prices is welcomed... Macro miners tank Pubbies fit rigs and cargo holds A true mystery I'm sure macro miners complain in local less also...
Xavieer Naidoo	Posted - 2008.03.05 18:56:00 - [553] I agree - they do it because they can. That's great. BUT... I think we are missing one thing here: the roleplay aspect of the whole operation. Goons are flying "suicide battleships" ? Ships have crews. So... 300+ exhumers destroyed by 300+ "suicide battleships" = 300 x 6500 = 1.950.000 lives lost (Concord provides insta-pop...) Seriously... crews would riot, and would not take part in suicide operations: "Hey... we are all going to die because the captain wants us to destroy that Hulk in the Empire... and they will pay him for that... Roger! Man the battlestations!" Correct me if I'm wrong - as far as the game mechanics go - the whole operation should be possible, but as far as the roleplaying goes - it should not happen.
Vincent La Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:01:00 - [554] Originally by: Sekket I'm sure macro miners complain in local less also... There are a few Goons that speak Chinese, they've gotten us some great chatlogs. It's also fun when I get an evemail full of Engrish rage.
Volir Deep Space HVAC	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:06:00 - [555] Originally by: Xavieer Naidoo I agree - they do it because they can. That's great. BUT... I think we are missing one thing here: the roleplay aspect of the whole operation. Goons are flying "suicide battleships" ? Ships have crews. So... 300+ exhumers destroyed by 300+ "suicide battleships" = 300 x 6500 = 1.950.000 lives lost (Concord provides insta-pop...) Seriously... crews would riot, and would not take part in suicide operations: "Hey... we are all going to die because the captain wants us to destroy that Hulk in the Empire... and they will pay him for that... Roger! Man the battlestations!" Correct me if I'm wrong - as far as the game mechanics go - the whole operation should be possible, but as far as the roleplaying goes - it should not happen. The crews are the true martyrs. They must be happy to die for their God and in his holy service. The conditions that normal citizens endure is deplorable on planets and in stations; they would happily join any of these crews for the glory... and their families are well compensated.
Bish Ounen Gallente Omni-Core Freedom Fighters Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:10:00 - [556] Originally by: Vincent La Originally by: Sekket I'm sure macro miners complain in local less also... There are a few Goons that speak Chinese, they've gotten us some great chatlogs. It's also fun when I get an evemail full of Engrish rage. Hey, you guys gonna visit Auvergne any time soon? Every frigging belt I go to is full of hulks just SITTING there, even after the belt is empty! Auvergne needs a CLEANING! (Then maybe I can actually find more real miners to can flip. Stupid macroers never use cans!)
Saint Lazarus DROW Org Brotherhood of the Spider	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:12:00 - [557] Originally by: Merin Ryskin Not only is it not wrong for Goonswarm to do this, it is one of the few things Goonswarm has actually done right! Bit of advice for the carebears: by clicking the "subscribe" button, you consent to PvP. There is no such thing as "safe space", only "I can kill you easily and take your stuff" and "I have to work a bit harder to kill you and take your stuff". Saying you were killed "for nothing" is just silly, there is no such thing as "for nothing" in EVE. Everything from "you have stuff I want" to "I like to see pretty explosions" to "it's tuesday and I'm eating a pizza" is a legitimate reason to kill you. As for your laughable idea of petitioning the losses, allow me to quote CCP's player guide (you know, that thing you should have read) on this issue: ... Ratings of 0.5 and above can be considered relatively safe ... Please note that no matter where you are, there is no absolute guarantee you will not be attacked. Concord hands out retribution, but cannot promise constant protection. So yeah, I feel so dirty saying this, but good hunting, Goonswarm! L O L, BoB defending Goons ^^ Tis a good post in itself but the fact its a sworn enemy hes defending just makes this whole thing funnier and makes me love EvE that much more, tis a great game GO GO GOONS Please resize signature to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Xavieer Naidoo	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:27:00 - [558] Originally by: Volir The crews are the true martyrs. They must be happy to die for their God and in his holy service. The conditions that normal citizens endure is deplorable on planets and in stations; they would happily join any of these crews for the glory... and their families are well compensated. Ok, Amarr have slaves... what about Gallente crews ?
TeddyBr FTW Caldari TeddyBr's Revenge	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:40:00 - [559] I am providing a service of killing Goonies in high sec space. This service is to provide an outlet for all the miners who have been killed off by the Goonies recently and any others who just plain don't like the Goonies. If enough isk is sent in I will hire a second merc group to hunt down their alt industrial corps to hurt their logistical capabilies. (Bob take notice plz) Goonie Gasbags On Notice: Death Is Coming (R.E.P.O. Hired)
Kash Ka Amarr Cosmic Vacum Cleaners	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:42:00 - [560] I support the JihadSawrm, kill those miners those flthy miners. ---------=================--------- I study the art of pew pew... boom!

cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:44:00 - [561] Edited by: cal nereus on 05/03/2008 19:45:30 A well fitted Hulk can tank just fine actually. Some exhumers have been known to act as bait or even destroy PvP ships themselves. It's not impossible, just rare and inefficient. Of course, you ideally don't want to resort to tanking in a Hulk. Instead, just avoid those systems where Goons go roaming. --- Join BH-DL Skills
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:47:00 - [562] Originally by: Xavieer Naidoo I agree - they do it because they can. That's great. BUT... I think we are missing one thing here: the roleplay aspect of the whole operation. Goons are flying "suicide battleships" ? Ships have crews. So... 300+ exhumers destroyed by 300+ "suicide battleships" = 300 x 6500 = 1.950.000 lives lost (Concord provides insta-pop...) Seriously... crews would riot, and would not take part in suicide operations: "Hey... we are all going to die because the captain wants us to destroy that Hulk in the Empire... and they will pay him for that... Roger! Man the battlestations!" Correct me if I'm wrong - as far as the game mechanics go - the whole operation should be possible, but as far as the roleplaying goes - it should not happen. You forget, this is "jihad"-swarm. Each and every crew-member is promised tons of virgins after death. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Vincent La Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.05 19:56:00 - [563] Originally by: TeddyBr FTW I am providing a service of killing Goonies in high sec space. This service is to provide an outlet for all the miners who have been killed off by the Goonies recently and any others who just plain don't like the Goonies. If enough isk is sent in I will hire a second merc group to hunt down their alt industrial corps to hurt their logistical capabilies. (Bob take notice plz) Goonie Gasbags On Notice: Death Is Coming (R.E.P.O. Hired) More wardecs, please
Xavieer Naidoo	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:23:00 - [564] Originally by: cal nereus You forget, this is "jihad"-swarm. Each and every crew-member is promised tons of virgins after death. Lol. That's a good point. But sut seriously... I know that Amarr people are dumb and might believe in that sort of crap... What about other crews ? Explanation ? Anybody ? From roleplaying point of view, this operation would never be possible.
Gamesguy Amarr D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.05 22:30:00 - [565] Edited by: Gamesguy on 05/03/2008 22:30:15 Originally by: Xavieer Naidoo Originally by: cal nereus You forget, this is "jihad"-swarm. Each and every crew-member is promised tons of virgins after death. Lol. That's a good point. But sut seriously... I know that Amarr people are dumb and might believe in that sort of crap... What about other crews ? Explanation ? Anybody ? From roleplaying point of view, this operation would never be possible. In the backstory, we have an engagement between an armageddon(not pod pilot) that attacked someone else in highsec space. The response was a single raven from the Caldari navy, it wasnt omnipotent concord ships with YOU WILL DIE dps and tank. In the backstory, its quite possible for a pod pilot to commite a crime in highsec, kill the police that tried to fight him, and leave.
Xavieer Naidoo	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:29:00 - [566] Originally by: Gamesguy In the backstory, we have an engagement between an armageddon(not pod pilot) that attacked someone else in highsec space. The response was a single raven from the Caldari navy, it wasnt omnipotent concord ships with YOU WILL DIE dps and tank. In the backstory, its quite possible for a pod pilot to commite a crime in highsec, kill the police that tried to fight him, and leave. Well, I presume that's quite "realistic" and that's how it would look from the roleplay aspect. But we were talking about "suicide battleships" because that's how this looks in EVE right now. The devs are not gonna say: "Well...ummm... they didn't really explode... it's the game mechanics... in reality they've flown away."
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.05 23:51:00 - [567] Well, technically, we have unlimited crew right? That doesn't make sense roleplay-wise, but it's the only reason to explain why so many crews can die while ships are getting replaced left and right. Unless we clone our crews. --- Join BH-DL Skills
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp.	Posted - 2008.03.06 00:03:00 - [568] All I can really make of this is that goonswarm wants its members to mine Veldspar in 0.0.
Tankn00blicus Cosmic Vacum Cleaners	Posted - 2008.03.06 00:55:00 - [569] Hey, now I'm a miner currently flying a retriever and training for a hulk and I like this. Things like this make the game pretty damn interesting.
dropouthighschoolteacher	Posted - 2008.03.06 00:56:00 - [570] Originally by: cal nereus Instead, just avoid those systems where Goons go roaming. Minmatar space is safer it seems. "As of this post, I am now surrendering Minmitar space as unholy land. You will be allowed to mass mine and defile this territory without fear of suicide attacks or aggression from JihadSwarm." http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=message

Fofalus III ELEMENTS	Posted - 2008.03.06 01:28:00 - [571] Originally by: cal nereus Well, technically, we have unlimited crew right? That doesn't make sense roleplay-wise, but it's the only reason to explain why so many crews can die while ships are getting replaced left and right. Unless we clone our crews. Ya we do. There are trillions of people. Lets just say 10 billion people per planet and an average of 6 planets per system with 5000 systems. 300 trillion people total and the living conditions on the planet are unbearable so they will take any star ship job. So with birth rates I am sure we have a near unlimited crew.
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.06 01:33:00 - [572] Originally by: Vincent La Originally by: TeddyBr FTW I am providing a service of killing Goonies in high sec space. This service is to provide an outlet for all the miners who have been killed off by the Goonies recently and any others who just plain don't like the Goonies. If enough isk is sent in I will hire a second merc group to hunt down their alt industrial corps to hurt their logistical capabilies. (Bob take notice plz) Goonie Gasbags On Notice: Death Is Coming (R.E.P.O. Hired) More wardecs, please That's an... interesting fit. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Dorsnefran II	Posted - 2008.03.06 02:03:00 - [573] Originally by: dakari Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Princess Jodi - Hulk-using CareBears are the richest group in Eve. Too bad they are mostly solo players. If they chose to focus their economic might, they could easily overcome the Griefers military might. But the solo lifestyle prevents that focus. Maybe this ganking will provide incentive for a Mining Consortium Alliance, with Mercenaries benefiting from the contracts. I don't think you can call that original when I already suggested it But seriously, I'd like to see this happen. Why should empire miners be weak and powerless? They're rich, they have production resources, they're numerous. At the cost of 1-3 weeks training they could have combat alts (or wtf they could just buy a 5-10M SP combat character...) for counter-griefing ops, they could collectively afford mercenaries, they could use their collective production for political influence. All this crying? God, it amazes me... this deliberate choice to be weak and victimised rather than powerful and feared. WHY? You're starting to fail pretty bad at posting about this subject. You post as if this is a PvP'er vs carebear situation when in fact this is a eve universe situation. Goons kill off the high security miners, some may be isk farmers some not, people have to switch up to mission running or slower methods of mining, prices rise, production slows, if this lasts any amount of time all the valuable products are bought up and then resold at 2x-3x the normal price and price gouging starts happening. All the people who do not depend upon self sustaining alliances are forced to run missions to acquire ISK to outfit ships that once used to cost 350mil that now cost 1 billion or more. The only people who will be rich are the ones who are already rich and those most definately are not the 'just in a hulk" semi noobs, but those established characters who are good at playing the market and forcasting how the market will fluctuate. And I'm betting those people right now have bought up all the really cheap tech 2 items and within a week or so will be putting them up at 3x normal price. Believe me, when you yourself are whining about the cost of tech 2 prices in the next couple weeks, you sure as hell will try to blame the miners but in reality it will be you PvP'ers who are to blame. And as I said earlier, I'll probably still mine in my hulk or covetor OR retrievers, but I'll just be smart about it. Dang... you just given my strategy away
Rufus MacMaranth Shadow Front	Posted - 2008.03.06 04:12:00 - [574] Edited by: Rufus MacMaranth on 06/03/2008 04:12:22 Finally encountered a couple of daft Goonies killing things in Misneden last night trying to spout their 'message'. Have to say it was rather sad and pathetic listening to them supposedly role playing by posting links to their web site, and calling Gallente space 'holy'. No doubt the kiddies will eventually get bored and they will go do something else. Personally I don't really care if they do this, or not, but as I said it is all rather pathetic. For those of us who have been around for a while and can make stuff it will probably be profitable in the long run anyway. Ruf.
Nyabinghi Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.06 05:17:00 - [575] Suicide should be unprofitable. Yes you can quote me. ***
Fallorn GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.06 05:28:00 - [576] Originally by: Nyabinghi Suicide should be unprofitable. Yes you can quote me. Quoting you cause you said I could. I believe if you are smart you will be making quite a bit of profit producing what is used. They should not get profit I agree with Nyabinghi. They support terrorists by producing things they know can be used to support terror. Sig removed. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] with a link to your signature. - Elmo Pug
Schigolch Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.06 10:09:00 - [577] Originally by: The Mittani hey guys i'm about to beat celot on the jihadswarm killboard ~BOOYAH~ i have to buy brutixes in bulk im going through them so fast its pretty awesome so hello thread! i am v. happy that you are happy! If by "Beat Celot" you mean "Fall behind Vincent" But that's ok you can do it little fella keep on chuggin ~No not believin in urself~
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.06 10:31:00 - [578] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: Vincent La More wardecs, please That's an... interesting fit. exuro mortis flying ravens with miners. they are turning into carebears.
Lord Wing Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.06 11:13:00 - [579] Originally by: Dirk Magnum Originally by: Alekseyev Karrde I sympathize, but there's really nothing surprising about this. Goonswarm has stated from day one they are in EVE to break it, and ever since they've been trying various ways to do this. Now that they're the dominant 0.0 power they are turning toward the vast majoirty of the players in the game, which do reside in empire and hardly leave, and are becoming "terrorists". Now there are many solutions to this from the miner perspective. One in particular I'll advance because it's my area of "expertise": Hire mercenaries against Goonswarm. I've seen the killboard link and quite frankly any decently equipped merc corp would be able to nip an aspiring Goon ganker in the bud. Sure it would be expensive, but if several victems pooled their resources and bargined collectivly, it wouldnt be all that bad compared to the increased costs and loss of peace of mind Goonswarm is currently causing. Dont expect the playerbase to defend or pity support you because you got suicide ganked alongside a few hundred others. Not much in EVE gets done through charity, anything being related to Chribba being a notable exception. However, I'll put it forward that my corp would be more than happy to be the, or one of the, units contracted for such an undertaking. Get organized, pool your resources, and contract out to those who specialize in what you need done. And on top of this don't assume for a second that the Goons are going to remain as strong as they are today. When the Coalition has finished circle jerking over BoB they'll just turn on each other. That will be especially true if the Goons continue to victimize random people not involved with alliance ops. i lol'd
Ryan Scouse'UK omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.06 11:48:00 - [580] I laugh as the fact they make profit from killing these ships!! Gist a-type shield boosters will go up in price.. so will hulks =P infact... I wonder if Trit will go up to 10k per unit =P

Ikonz Coristati Red Republic	Posted - 2008.03.06 12:10:00 - [581] ty for the massive amount of lols, goons
Shinori GoonFleet	Posted - 2008.03.06 14:13:00 - [582] We are doing this to force CCP's hand in voiding insurance on Concordekkens. We understand this has been a important player base request, and we feel that we should try and give something back to the community that has always supported us. If you wish to help with logistics or donations for this project, please contact me in-game and I will refer you to the right people.
BhallSpawn	Posted - 2008.03.06 17:45:00 - [583] In a word. Yes.
Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:22:00 - [584] Originally by: Shinori stuff picked up trolling this thread....... begging stuff...... The merry pranksters were someone else, goon ego negates such an idea. ... continued overleaf
Scorpius Scar	Posted - 2008.03.06 18:54:00 - [585] Edited by: Scorpius Scar on 06/03/2008 18:55:23 Edited by: Scorpius Scar on 06/03/2008 18:54:53 CCP = BOB = GOONS = GRIEFERS Consider the case of the Avatar class Titan, flown by the Band of Brothers Guild in the massively multiplayer deep-space EVE Online. The vessel was far bigger and far deadlier than any other in the game. Kilometers in length and well over a million metric tons unloaded, it had never once been destroyed in combat. Only a handful of player alliances had ever acquired a Titan, and this one, in particular, had cost the players who bankrolled it in-game resources worth more than $10,000. So, naturally, Commander Sesfan Qu'lah, chief executive of the GoonFleet Corporation and leader of the greater GoonSwarm Alliance ù better known outside EVE as Isaiah Houston, senior and medieval-history major at Penn State University ù led a Something Awful invasion force to attack and destroy it. "EVE was designed to be a cold, hard, unforgiving world," explains EVE producer Sfgurlina Ingvarsd=ttir. It's this attitude that has made EVE uniquely congenial for Goons. "The ability to inflict that huge amount of actual, real-life damage on someone is amazingly satisfying" says Houston. "The way that you win in EVE is you basically make life so miserable for someone else that they actually quit the game and don't come back." And the only way to make someone that miserable is to destroy whatever virtual thing they've sunk the most real time, real money, and, above all, real emotion into. Find the player who's flying the biggest, baddest spaceship and paid for it with the proceeds of hundreds of hours mining asteroids, then blow that spaceship up. "That's his life investment right there," Houston says. The Goons, on the other hand, fly cheap little frigates into battle, get blown up, go grab another ship, and jump back into the fight. Their motto: "We choke the guns of our enemies with our corpses." Some other players consider the tactic a less-than-sporting end run around a fair fight, still others call it an outright technical exploit, designed to lag the server so the enemy can't move in reinforcements. Either way, it works, and the success just adds force to GoonFleet's true secret weapon: morale. "EVE is the only game I can think of in which morale is an actual quantifiable source of success," Houston says. "It's impossible to make another person stop playing or quit the game unless their spirit is, you know, crushed." And what makes the Goons' spirit ultimately uncrushable is knowing, in the end, that they're actually playing a different game altogether. As one GoonFleet member's online profile declared, "You may be playing EVE Online, but be warned: We are playing Something Awful." http://www.wired.com/gaming/virtualworlds/magazine/16-02/mf_goons?currentPage=all
Mith Dahn	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:09:00 - [586] Goons are a plague upon mmo's, a festering cess pool of all that is wrong with humanity, as is any mmo by association. Thank you for rounding them all up and snaring them in a virtual cage and keeping them out of the real world. If they were really worth anything in the real world they wouldn't have the motivation to be here. Thank you for giving the wanna be terrorists of the world a sterile breeding ground, taking there money, and keeping them passive in real life, our jails are full as it is.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:22:00 - [587] Quotes from this article . "The ability to inflict that huge amount of actual, real-life damage on someone is amazingly satisfying" says Houston. "The way that you win in EVE is you basically make life so miserable for someone else that they actually quit the game and don't come back." "EVE is the only game I can think of in which morale is an actual quantifiable source of success," Houston says. "It's impossible to make another person stop playing or quit the game unless their spirit is, you know, crushed." And what makes the Goons' spirit ultimately uncrushable is knowing, in the end, that they're actually playing a different game altogether. As one GoonFleet member's online profile declared, "You may be playing EVE Online, but be warned: We are playing Something Awful." Okay I don't practice the above viewpoints but I do %100 understand and respect it. In a way yeah I guess it's "anti-civilization", but in a way it's also enlightened, I mean people shouldn't be taking a video game so seriously that they're emotionally crushed when their ship dies.
Cailais Amarr VITOC Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2008.03.06 19:40:00 - [588] Originally by: Cipher7 Quotes from this article . "The ability to inflict that huge amount of actual, real-life damage on someone is amazingly satisfying" says Houston. "The way that you win in EVE is you basically make life so miserable for someone else that they actually quit the game and don't come back." "EVE is the only game I can think of in which morale is an actual quantifiable source of success," Houston says. "It's impossible to make another person stop playing or quit the game unless their spirit is, you know, crushed." And what makes the Goons' spirit ultimately uncrushable is knowing, in the end, that they're actually playing a different game altogether. As one GoonFleet member's online profile declared, "You may be playing EVE Online, but be warned: We are playing Something Awful." Okay I don't practice the above viewpoints but I do %100 understand and respect it. In a way yeah I guess it's "anti-civilization", but in a way it's also enlightened, I mean people shouldn't be taking a video game so seriously that they're emotionally crushed when their ship dies. It's what makes EVE unique amongst MMOs. The harder GS try the more 'EVEy' EVE Online becomes. Kinda cool really. C. Improved Low Sec Idea!!
Vincent La Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:02:00 - [589] Originally by: Schigolch Originally by: The Mittani hey guys i'm about to beat celot on the jihadswarm killboard ~BOOYAH~ i have to buy brutixes in bulk im going through them so fast its pretty awesome so hello thread! i am v. happy that you are happy! If by "Beat Celot" you mean "Fall behind Vincent" But that's ok you can do it little fella keep on chuggin ~No not believin in urself~ The Mackinaws around Jita have started fitting anti-blaster tanks, but it doesn't do much good when you're AFK.
Mith Dahn	Posted - 2008.03.06 20:10:00 - [590] Originally by: Cipher7 In a way yeah I guess it's "anti-civilization", but in a way it's also enlightened, I mean people shouldn't be taking a video game so seriously that they're emotionally crushed when their ship dies. People shouldnt be taking a video game so seriously that they play it solely for the press releases. Anything that is actually worth anything in real life provokes an emotional response. The increase in blood pressure and adrenaline you get from being griefed and or griefing is an emotional response, this is what CCP relies on for money, because its the only emotional response that they can exploit yet do not have to create.

MISERY MAKER	Posted - 2008.03.07 00:37:00 - [591] after 21 pages of goonswarm propaganda i have a few questions..... 1) Goons want every miner to go to o.o and mine in Minmatar space. When I tried to go to 0.0 and check out the possibilities I couldnt get past the first gate to .4 as whenever you come out on the .4 side some gate campers are killing everyone who comes through. After 4 times i stopped. 2) If the Goons really want to run Eve and hate Bob then why are they not killing exhumers and harrassing BoB in Bob space? Are they scared that BoB will really kick their butts? 3) What is with the Allah propaganda? These guys are not Islam.........why the pushy religious aspect? just a few questions that need answers please
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.07 00:37:00 - [592] Originally by: Mith Dahn Anything that is actually worth anything in real life provokes an emotional response. The increase in blood pressure and adrenaline you get from being griefed and or griefing is an emotional response, this is what CCP relies on for money, because its the only emotional response that they can exploit yet do not have to create. A traditional PVE MMO has to PRODUCE content to make your blood pressure rise. The limitation is that nobody can write a book faster than you can read it. Nobody can create a gorgeous dungeon with dragons and other cool stuff faster than a player can run that dungeon. You do the dungeon once, twice, three times, its no longer entertainment. They just can't keep up. 1 month after an expansion is out, people have already shredded it, so games like WoW have to increase the "grind" factor to slow people down, to make them farm keys, farm key fragments, farm rats bats cats to get the components needed to be teleported into the dungeon to play it. That's why PvP is the wave of the future. You don't have to write content. You don't have to create a dungeon with dragons. You just have to create a framework. WoW is an amusement park. Eve is a large warehouse with broken glass and cigarette butts on the floor, with gangs of european soccer hooligans running around carrying bats to beat the schit out of each other.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.07 00:45:00 - [593] Originally by: MISERY MAKER 3) What is with the Allah propaganda? These guys are not Islam.........why the pushy religious aspect? I'm sure Isiah Houston has accepted Allah in his heart.
cal nereus Bounty Hunter - Dark Legion Brutally Clever Empire	Posted - 2008.03.07 01:16:00 - [594] Edited by: cal nereus on 07/03/2008 01:17:44 The idea (from the Goon perspective) is three-fold: 1) Nothing is held sacred. Anything can be made fun of. 2) Everyone else is touchy about one or more subjects. 3) Make fun of those subjects and get a rise out of others. It's really quite simple. Best part is you can do it to Goons too. For example, if a Goon is really obsessed about guns, you can probably irritate/troll him using guns as a subject. That is, if you're objective is revenge. Otherwise, you can just ignore 'em. --- Join BH-DL Skills
riprjak New Fnord Industries	Posted - 2008.03.07 03:51:00 - [595] Edited by: riprjak on 07/03/2008 03:54:26 Firstly I am an unrepentant carebear with the pvp skills of a dead gerbil. This needs saying so you can understand the context of my ravings. Sadly I cant find any basis to fault Goonswarm here. Does this mean I dont personally think they smoke WAAAY too much *****? no; but their approach here has been... choke... reasonable. They DECLARED this undeclared war. They told EVERYONE what was going to happen and they also told EVERYONE where they would be safe. But this isnt actually the point of this post. I actually want to chat about the insurance issue coming up. I find amusing all the "hardcore" players who deride carebears and then carefully find reasons why insurance should still apply to them... Who is the carebear here? Frankly, as a carebear, I dont need insurance; on anything. I can make several thousand percent profit daytrading, sitting INSIDE A STATION in Jita without ever undocking nor needing any skills beyond a handful of levels in marketing and sales. So one solution is to completely remove insurance; perhaps excepting genuinely new players in noobcorps or until a PC corp finds a way to make it profitable (expanded contract system). This way, everyone in every engagement is taking GENUINE risks, if they lose thier ship, they get NO payout. Only winning is profitable. I realise this is extreme, but I personally support an EVE where there is minimal "handwaving" and the maximum possible economic activity is purely player driven. Insurance is definately a handwave. The other reasonable solution would be to introduce "ratings". Insurance which gets more expensive based on the number of ships you lose, fights you start or ships you suicide; to a point where you become "uninsurable" if you go too far. Perhaps a standings scheme with the insurance provider. Every week/day/contract that goes past without a loss is a standing increase, every ship loss or fight initiated a standing decrease and every self destruct or suicide gang a larger standing decrease... And have it apply to player/corp/alliance the way normal standings do (to prevent alt hopping to avoid such repercussions). The no insurance idea is fun because it would mean REAL risk of ruin for pvpers. The ratings idea is fun because it allows what is currently going on to occur, but places an upper limit on how long it can easily be maintained (in fact, comparing this uninsurable loss against profit from selling exhumers would be an interesting study, can the swarm profitably fund the jihad purely from exhumer sales??). Essentially, much as I would dislike being suicide ganked as a miner, this is "fair" in game world terms in my opinion. Much as its surprising for me to feel like praising Goon, their approach in clearly stating intentions to allow those who dont want to be engaged to get out of the line of fire is, for me, the line between "grief" and "fair". It would be interesting to modify insurance; but it would need to be in such a way to support the cuthroat economic rationalism thats the core of the game. Just my thoughts... err! jak.
Jade190	Posted - 2008.03.07 03:59:00 - [596] I guess the Goons lost their freighter to a gank and this is how they throw a tantrum because "the big bad gankers got an insurance pay out". Goons need to quit life. Utter disgrace to humanity. ------ Fighting stupidity since before you were stupid.
Value Added GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.07 04:10:00 - [597] It's too bad that pubbie tears cannot be monetized because this thread would be worth billions.
DarkFenix Caldari Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2008.03.07 04:13:00 - [598] This is the first thing Goonswarm have done that I'm genuinely impressed with. I'll watch the Jihadswarm killboard with interest. Nobody can criticise Goonswarm for what they're doing here, it is perfectly within legit game mechanics (and extremely amusing). Empire is not completely safe, this has been stated explicitly. Suicide ganking just hasn't been done on this kind of scale before. Keep it up Goonies!
CopyCatz Caldari ZipZoom Kaboom Ethereal Dawn	Posted - 2008.03.07 08:36:00 - [599] Edited by: CopyCatz on 07/03/2008 08:37:22 Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: MISERY MAKER 3) What is with the Allah propaganda? These guys are not Islam.........why the pushy religious aspect? I'm sure Isiah Houston has accepted Allah in his heart. You know, with the state of the world today, all it needs is some link on a busy islamic forum about the fun that is made here of their religion, and suddenly we have real life suicide ganks at penn state... maybe it would also be "fun to force CCP's hand" on that?
Scrutt5 Snuff inc	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:20:00 - [600] Edited by: Scrutt5 on 07/03/2008 11:24:59 Not frequenting high sec much I wasn't aware of the goons "Jihad" killboard. Made me laugh. Why shouldnt empire miners start wising up and start playing the game with an element of risk. Set standings and dock if they come into system. Eve has always been about risk v reward, you in a ship that can pull loads of ore (reward) looks like you now have an element of risk. Edited: Poor typing

Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:32:00 - [601] Originally by: CopyCatz Edited by: CopyCatz on 07/03/2008 08:37:22 Originally by: Cipher7 Originally by: MISERY MAKER 3) What is with the Allah propaganda? These guys are not Islam.........why the pushy religious aspect? I'm sure Isiah Houston has accepted Allah in his heart. You know, with the state of the world today, all it needs is some link on a busy islamic forum about the fun that is made here of their religion, and suddenly we have real life suicide ganks at penn state... maybe it would also be "fun to force CCP's hand" on that? I'll opine any way I like about any religion. And any who would wish to do me violence for it are welcome to try. I happen to like Islam. And I happen to think ganking miners in highsec jives closely with Jihad. Nothing wrong with it. Carry on.
Cipher7	Posted - 2008.03.07 11:33:00 - [602] Originally by: Scrutt5 Edited by: Scrutt5 on 07/03/2008 11:24:59 Not frequenting high sec much I wasn't aware of the goons "Jihad" killboard. Made me laugh. Why shouldnt empire miners start wising up and start playing the game with an element of risk. Set standings and dock if they come into system. Eve has always been about risk v reward, you in a ship that can pull loads of ore (reward) looks like you now have an element of risk. Edited: Poor typing Risk in suicide ganking and receiving insurance? None. Carry on.
An Anarchyyt Gallente Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.07 12:01:00 - [603] Originally by: MISERY MAKER 2) If the Goons really want to run Eve and hate Bob then why are they not killing exhumers and harrassing BoB in Bob space? Are they scared that BoB will really kick their butts? Newsflash! BoB does not just sit there with Hulks in Delve and mine. Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Jdestars Stars Research systems Incorporation	Posted - 2008.03.07 12:21:00 - [604] Edited by: Jdestars on 07/03/2008 12:24:56 maybe Goon need slave miner in their space in 0.0 Ice ore Field more than 750 Ice ore Field in empire sl >0.4 almost 100-150 Ice ore Field in The forge = 12 ( Jita's Region ) If we check the market order Sell and Buyer in The Forge Market we can that Volume are not enough for maintenance more than 170-180 Pos (refuel for 1 month ) But we can see also that half of Demand Ratio (S/B) (Seller Buyer) are Positive... so a tiny analysis of these indicators reduces has nothingness the assertions of goons concerning the abuses of the empire, because needs are not there or they assert it but indeed in 0.0. While they look except the slaves to mine on their place ??? RefCcpIdMatTriauxRatio S/B 16272Heavy Water -24,94% 16274Helium Isotopes 40,97% 17889Hydrogen Isotopes-1,88% 16273Liquid Ozone 46,96% 17888Nitrogen Isotopes-6,72% 17887Oxygen Isotopes 1,53% 16275Strontium Clathrates-7,83% (Analysis base of export of last Monday data The Forge Market all Ressource production by [STARR] Typical High Tech R&D a carebear very carebear Corporation lol)
Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.07 13:41:00 - [605] Originally by: Jdestars Only one thing) that demonstrate us Goons it is their incompetence in knowledge of market Thanks for the numbers. I'd point out that goon general incompetence is well known... probably because their average IQ doesn't go past the one of a bumbling bee.
Defianz Gallente Colgate Research New Eden Research	Posted - 2008.03.07 23:31:00 - [606] maybe break 250 over weekend eh come on guys :)
III LightBringer Okkelen Grave Robbers	Posted - 2008.03.08 00:53:00 - [607] Originally by: MISERY MAKER after 21 pages of goonswarm propaganda i have a few questions..... 1) Goons want every miner to go to o.o and mine in Minmatar space. When I tried to go to 0.0 and check out the possibilities I couldnt get past the first gate to .4 as whenever you come out on the .4 side some gate campers are killing everyone who comes through. After 4 times i stopped. Use a scout. Use the map. And take a 'backroute'. It is not hard. Originally by: MISERY MAKER 2) If the Goons really want to run Eve and hate Bob then why are they not killing exhumers and harrassing BoB in Bob space? Are they scared that BoB will really kick their butts? BOB fled for 6-7 regions. Now they are crammed together in a small space, and any action with them takes 3-24 hours. And I hear the lag sucks. Beside, BOB have regenerated and are striking back. Originally by: MISERY MAKER 3) What is with the Allah propaganda? These guys are not Islam.........why the pushy religious aspect? just a few questions that need answers please Because, 'kamikaze for the emperor' are so 1942? The only people that do a crime and not care about the response from the community and police and so on, are freedomfighters and terrorists. Goons are freedom fighters.
Pax Ratlin Gallente Valley Forge	Posted - 2008.03.08 01:06:00 - [608] Originally by: III LightBringer The only people that do a crime and not care about the response from the community and police and so on, are freedomfighters and terrorists. Goons are freedom fighters. And some peoples freedom fighters are always most other peoples terrorists
Tank CEO Caldari Corp 1 Allstars Insurgency	Posted - 2008.03.08 01:43:00 - [609] LOL, thats just awesome! I wanna do this, except, i wanna get their pod as well. I think I shall try it. ------------- Jita is mine.
Calimor Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.08 07:15:00 - [610] Right here, this is the best thread.

Nasta443	Posted - 2008.03.08 07:38:00 - [611] Originally by: Vincent La The Mackinaws around Jita have started fitting anti-blaster tanks, but it doesn't do much good when you're AFK. "Must. Mine. AFK!" ... "DURKA DURKA JIHAD!" You can't shake the care out of the carebear
karttoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 15:57:00 - [612] Originally by: Tank CEO LOL, thats just awesome! I wanna do this, except, i wanna get their pod as well. I think I shall try it. Fit two large smart bombs and activate them once the ship is down. Works quite well.
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 16:39:00 - [613] um just mine in high sec minmatar space as per the jihadswarm message, no need to venture into 0.0
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:36:00 - [614] Edited by: Eventy One on 10/03/2008 17:36:50 My understanding is that GS is not targeting them in Minmatar space. If this is true it means that you have a safe haven. Now I'm not a strategic planner for Goonswarm or anything, but I suspect they have their reasons. Lets say, hypothetically, that you wanted to replace Jita with some other system as the center of trade (like Rens as an example), how would you go about it? Make it dangerous to hover around Jita and environs perhaps? This would force people to find other centers of trade, other places to mine. If the area around Rens, (for example) where to be generally safer and people realized that, some might move, and mine and trade depending on how insightful they were. This of course would benefit anyone who had attempted to influence the market like this of course. Of course this is simply conjecture, but Goon Swarm rarely does anything with out a plan. Eventy One
FU Caddy	Posted - 2008.03.10 17:55:00 - [615] Originally by: Eventy One Edited by: Eventy One on 10/03/2008 17:36:50 My understanding is that GS is not targeting them in Minmatar space. If this is true it means that you have a safe haven. Now I'm not a strategic planner for Goonswarm or anything, but I suspect they have their reasons. Lets say, hypothetically, that you wanted to replace Jita with some other system as the center of trade (like Rens as an example), how would you go about it? Make it dangerous to hover around Jita and environs perhaps? This would force people to find other centers of trade, other places to mine. If the area around Rens, (for example) where to be generally safer and people realized that, some might move, and mine and trade depending on how insightful they were. This of course would benefit anyone who had attempted to influence the market like this of course. Of course this is simply conjecture, but Goon Swarm rarely does anything with out a plan. Eventy One Ding. I believe we have a winner.
Luh Windan	Posted - 2008.03.10 18:32:00 - [616] Originally by: Eventy One If the area around Rens, (for example) where to be generally safer and people realized that, some might move, and mine and trade depending on how insightful they were. everyone knows there are er......er......er.... dangerous ....er.... killer bananas in the space round Rens - don't go there and cause lag ... noo....noooo
Snoon	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:41:00 - [617] Greetings Congratulations on Goonswarm creating a 22 page thread on their Jihad, im sure it is striking fear into the hearts of thousands of carebears across New Eden. However... I have to say ive been mining quite hapily in my ole corner of the universe in the old Hulk without a sniff of the goons My point is...is this really affecting that many players. I mean the galaxy is a BIG place with lots of empire systems to mine. I have not yet seen any spike in Hulk sales. Congratulations on the kills and all, but im not sure that your having as much impact on the player base as this thread suggests
Karandan Gallente Otakus Society RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:47:00 - [618] It doesn't have anything to do with the pointless killing and such, they will eventually move the trading hub close to them so they can ease up the work on their hauling slaves for a bit. This will make it easier for them to put pressure on BOB, and eventually maybe the entire EVE-verse. That's not what they care for, though. All they care about is howmuch people they can make simultaneously BAWWWW (A.K.A. cry), and they're doing a pretty good job at it, so far. It's not the first game they do it to successfully.
karttoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 19:58:00 - [619] Originally by: Snoon Greetings Congratulations on Goonswarm creating a 22 page thread on their Jihad, im sure it is striking fear into the hearts of thousands of carebears across New Eden. However... I have to say ive been mining quite hapily in my ole corner of the universe in the old Hulk without a sniff of the goons My point is...is this really affecting that many players. I mean the galaxy is a BIG place with lots of empire systems to mine. I have not yet seen any spike in Hulk sales. Congratulations on the kills and all, but im not sure that your having as much impact on the player base as this thread suggests What system is this? I've been looking for a nice quiet place to mine.
Karandan Gallente Otakus Society RONA Alliance	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:05:00 - [620] If I didn't have to pay like $35 just to join the goons' forums, I would honestly join them. It'd be fun growing all elitist on other players of this game and calling them 'pubbies' simply because they didn't choose to pay $10 to lowtax =D

Brainless Bimbo	Posted - 2008.03.10 20:48:00 - [621] all i'm getting is the goons are taking the game seriously, which means they really do care about their time investment, they are planning, so much for free form chaos makers making fun of people for taking it too seriously, the goons have turned into thier own prey! ... continued overleaf
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:00:00 - [622] Originally by: karttoon What system is this? I've been looking for a nice quiet place to mine. OK li'l fella here's some attention for you. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Cygnus Scott Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:05:00 - [623] Originally by: Karandan If I didn't have to pay like $35 just to join the goons' forums, I would honestly join them. It'd be fun growing all elitist on other players of this game and calling them 'pubbies' simply because they didn't choose to pay $10 to lowtax =D Its just natural that the "revolutionaries" become the very image of what they despise. Elitist? What else do you call having a word like "pubbies" to describe everyone not them?
Aprudena Gist Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:18:00 - [624] Originally by: Brainless Bimbo all i'm getting is the goons are taking the game seriously, which means they really do care about their time investment, they are planning, so much for free form chaos makers making fun of people for taking it too seriously, the goons have turned into thier own prey! its true attacking blues is fun.
Quelque Chose Gallente	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:35:00 - [625] Originally by: Aprudena Gist Originally by: Brainless Bimbo all i'm getting is the goons are taking the game seriously, which means they really do care about their time investment, they are planning, so much for free form chaos makers making fun of people for taking it too seriously, the goons have turned into thier own prey! its true attacking blues is fun. Maybe if you're aggressively nonchalant about it people won't notice the howls coming out of CAOD. I've heard that deliberately omitting capitalization and punctuation is a good way to generate that effect. ______________________________ "Eve Online is a massively multiplayer game about trolling in outer space."
Malcanis R.E.C.O.N. Black-Out	Posted - 2008.03.10 21:39:00 - [626] Originally by: Karandan If I didn't have to pay like $35 just to join the goons' forums, I would honestly join them. It'd be fun growing all elitist on other players of this game and calling them 'pubbies' simply because they didn't choose to pay $10 to lowtax =D Quite right. Elitism has no place in EvE. CONCORD provide consequences, not safety; only you can do that.
Daylen Drazzi Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:07:00 - [627] Originally by: Karandan If I didn't have to pay like $35 just to join the goons' forums, I would honestly join them. It'd be fun growing all elitist on other players of this game and calling them 'pubbies' simply because they didn't choose to pay $10 to lowtax =D $35?! That ***tard lowtax owes me a refund!! "Ya see us Goons neva lose, If we'r dead, we'r dead so nobody cares, If'n we win we'v won, so's only we cares If'n we run away we always come back later so Goons neva lose ya see?"
Bistot Kid The First Thing You'll Ever See	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:31:00 - [628] Looks like one of their guys took out a macro fleet earlier today, so gratz for that! http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills kjoejo Republic University lksn Republic University kopor State War Academy kojgb Republic University ewipl Republic University iohre Republic University jkbvg Republic University Random keyboard stabbins 'R' us. -------------------- What? Me Worry? --------------------
Rudiel Alejandra	Posted - 2008.03.10 22:57:00 - [629] I totally agree, till this matter is resolve, im leaving the game, and i recommend yall do it as well, this is the only way the might do something bout it, hurting EVE wallet.
VicturusTeSaluto Metafarmers	Posted - 2008.03.10 23:05:00 - [630] Originally by: Eventy One Edited by: Eventy One on 10/03/2008 17:36:50 My understanding is that GS is not targeting them in Minmatar space. If this is true it means that you have a safe haven. Now I'm not a strategic planner for Goonswarm or anything, but I suspect they have their reasons. Lets say, hypothetically, that you wanted to replace Jita with some other system as the center of trade (like Rens as an example), how would you go about it? Make it dangerous to hover around Jita and environs perhaps? This would force people to find other centers of trade, other places to mine. If the area around Rens, (for example) where to be generally safer and people realized that, some might move, and mine and trade depending on how insightful they were. This of course would benefit anyone who had attempted to influence the market like this of course. Of course this is simply conjecture, but Goon Swarm rarely does anything with out a plan. Eventy One They will eventually get tired, or lose too much sec, or CCP will nerf suicide ganking from all the whines. Then the carebears will just go back to jita. It's not like rens is near the caldari mission hubs anyways.

karttoon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 00:45:00 - [631] Originally by: Rudiel Alejandra I totally agree, till this matter is resolve, im leaving the game, and i recommend yall do it as well, this is the only way the might do something bout it, hurting EVE wallet. 你为什么不听听我的职位？
Teantis The Greater Goon GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 01:01:00 - [632] Originally by: karttoon Originally by: Rudiel Alejandra I totally agree, till this matter is resolve, im leaving the game, and i recommend yall do it as well, this is the only way the might do something bout it, hurting EVE wallet. 你为什么不听听我的职位？ is ting ting chinese for pew pew?
Maxwell Albritten	Posted - 2008.03.11 02:35:00 - [633] At first I was sort of annoyed with goonswarm and the likes. At the time it all started to go down I had just begun ice mining in empire space and got really annoyed that some jerks were trying to get me to stop just because...well...just because they're goons. I went through all the rants about how it wasn't fair that goons were trying to take away our "safe" place and that I had saved up a long time for my Hulk and didn't want it popped. But later that afternoon I figured goons were goons and there are more ways to make isk in EvE than AFK mining. Plus, it does make it a bit more exciting to know that even safe space isn't safe. So, cry babies, please continue to cry. And if you threaten to quit, then by all means please do so! Empire is getting a little cramped anyways. Same thing goes for the 70+mil sp players who cry anytime some sort of nerf is maybe sorta kinda almost thought about for the super caps. So please, if you are going to cry about this sort of thing: quit. You only make the gaming experience better for the rest of us.
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:56:00 - [634] Originally by: Dai Nau moderated even more moderated
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.03.11 03:57:00 - [635] Originally by: Teantis Originally by: karttoon Originally by: Rudiel Alejandra I totally agree, till this matter is resolve, im leaving the game, and i recommend yall do it as well, this is the only way the might do something bout it, hurting EVE wallet. 你为什么不听听我的职位？ is ting ting chinese for pew pew? LOLOLOLOL
Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:04:00 - [636] I spilled a beer on my laptop so it's going to be a couple of days before I can kill more hulks, so like if you repo guys want to take credit for a 10% drop in hulk deaths it's cool I won't break your balls while you scam more isk from these dudes
Dianeces Minmatar Repo Industries	Posted - 2008.03.11 04:57:00 - [637] Originally by: Celot I spilled a beer on my laptop so it's going to be a couple of days before I can kill more hulks, so like if you repo guys want to take credit for a 10% drop in hulk deaths it's cool I won't break your balls while you scam more isk from these dudes Maybe we can work something out?
Zen Krane Caldari Legacy State The Ascendent Dominion	Posted - 2008.03.11 05:06:00 - [638] they have a blue print so they are blowing up the hulks to bring the price up. goons set to pink for being ***....
Zorlag Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 05:56:00 - [639] Originally by: Zen Krane they have a blue print so they are blowing up the hulks to bring the price up. goons set to pink for being ***.... man if someone is making money off of this then i want a cut, i just love the explosions and where is my free ipod celot you LIED to me
Rudiel Alejandra	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:21:00 - [640] 你为什么不听听我的职位？ ????????? WTF is your problem? I cant read ******* kanji you idiot, you wanna be part of the forums, you better speak english, cause aint nobody that can understand that noodle mess,

Celot GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:31:00 - [641] Originally by: Rudiel Alejandra ????????? WTF is your problem? I cant read ******* kanji you idiot, you wanna be part of the forums, you better speak english, cause aint nobody that can understand that noodle mess, whatever you say, ping pong
Diek Ran Amarr Autonums	Posted - 2008.03.11 22:36:00 - [642] IBTL
Teantis	Posted - 2008.03.13 06:09:00 - [643] Originally by: Rudiel Alejandra 你为什么不听听我的职位？ ????????? WTF is your problem? I cant read ******* kanji you idiot, you wanna be part of the forums, you better speak english, cause aint nobody that can understand that noodle mess, It's not Kanji plebe. It's mandarin, it says why didn't you listen to my message.
Ayures	Posted - 2008.03.13 07:17:00 - [644] Originally by: Scorsigaar Is goonswarm like a wow guild or something? That's GoonSquad.
Decker Jones Ever Flow	Posted - 2008.03.16 22:46:00 - [645] I think you need to stop your whining. You are never safe in eve, this is the #1 lesson of the game.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.17 04:04:00 - [646] Well... I guess if I was the victim of this I would hate suicide ganking. I guess if I was the predator of this I would love suicide ganking. Like much of things in life, there has to be losers in order for winners to exist. I hate goons, i really do. BUT!! If CCP got ride of any threat of losing your ship anywhere no matter what, I would hate CCP more than goons, and THAT is really hard to do. Suicide gank them back?
Cipher7 Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.03.17 05:55:00 - [647] Arnold Schwartzeneggar in Kindergarten Cop voice : SHUT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP
Ilod Avok Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.17 08:04:00 - [648] imo CCP should take the approach of what a police force would do in this situation. CONCORD shoots any corporations with more then a certain amount of suicide kills on site. If Goonswarm wants to have their own empire they can stay in it.
Teldi Beinew GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.17 09:11:00 - [649] Originally by: Eventy One Goon Swarm rarely does anything with out a plan. hahaha are you for real
Nodnol 178Selim Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.03.17 09:27:00 - [650] The Mackinaw is a hard ship to fit for tank and to use for it's primary purpose due to it's very low CPU and grid., but I guess it's time for me to adapt to this threat. What sort of firepower are the goons bringing to the party?

Rashmika Clavain Red. Red Republic	Posted - 2008.03.17 09:53:00 - [651] Adapt to the threat? You mean don't go afk, set Goons to -5 (or whatever) and check local regularly?
Nodnol 178Selim Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.03.17 10:00:00 - [652] Originally by: Rashmika Clavain Adapt to the threat? You mean don't go afk, set Goons to -5 (or whatever) and check local regularly? Heh, yeah I ice mine listening to music, at the keyboard, but not really sharp and on the ball. I defy anyone to mine ice and totally stay alert. I do keep an eye on local, and am in a quiet spot, well out of the way and haven't done anything dumb like searched for the system name on Jihadwatch! Out of interest (not sarcastic, I really don't know!) what benefits would setting Goonfleet to -5 or below give me?
Rashmika Clavain Red. Red Republic	Posted - 2008.03.17 10:26:00 - [653] Edited by: Rashmika Clavain on 17/03/2008 10:26:03 They'll stand out from anyone else casually set to -10 by your corp (potential war targets for example), so you'll know they aren't just holding a bad standing to you but to dock asap.
Thornat Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.17 11:16:00 - [654] Edited by: Thornat on 17/03/2008 11:16:11 All I can say about this is that its been damn good for business. I can't think of any other way that Goonswarm could be helping me then popping a crap load of ships themselves included. I fully support this stup... I mean .... good action and I hope those idi... I mean people in Goonswarm continue their dum... I mean intelegent operation.
Excesse Reikoku Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.03.17 11:20:00 - [655] This is by far the best thing goons have ever done and I hope they keep up the good work. The solution is simple - move out of highsec. See you all soon!
CRUSH BOSS BigMek Industries GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.17 11:28:00 - [656] care bears - i love the smell of burning fur in the morning. We fight for the ONE - We die for the ONE Don't troll in your signature please. -Hango
Darius Brinn Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.03.17 13:22:00 - [657] Correct me if I am wrong. The problem is that these people use things like trial accounts and cheap, disposable ships to suicide-gank expensive civilian-like mining vessels. If so, I don't think what these people do is "enforcing the ruthless nature of EVE". I mean, they bring alts to avoid consequences, but cry that others should take the consequences themselves. If these people want to blow up every single mining barge out there, so be it. That's EVE. But the fact that they use out of game exploits, is NOT EVE. It's external douchebagery. Trial accounts SHOULD be unable to engage in PvP in 0.5+ systems, at all.
Haddaway GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.03.17 14:24:00 - [658] Originally by: Darius Brinn Correct me if I am wrong. The problem is that these people use things like trial accounts and cheap, disposable ships to suicide-gank expensive civilian-like mining vessels. hey you're wrong
Darius Brinn Taggart Transdimensional Virtue of Selfishness	Posted - 2008.03.17 14:41:00 - [659] Originally by: Haddaway Originally by: Darius Brinn Correct me if I am wrong. The problem is that these people use things like trial accounts and cheap, disposable ships to suicide-gank expensive civilian-like mining vessels. hey you're wrong Am I? So they're not using trial accounts nor cheap ships, you mean? Then I think it's just a matter of withdrawing insurance in Concord'ed ships (like in real life). Whoever gets blown then knows that they paid their price.
HellSpeed Estrale Frontiers	Posted - 2008.03.17 14:53:00 - [660] Originally by: Relaed http://www.jihadswarm.com/?a=kills Killboard Seems Goonswarm has decided to target and destroy every exhumer they can get their hands on. Over 140 Exhumers in one week so far, and counting. There is no war dec or anything, so what is going on CCP? Is it wrong for the Largest Alliance in the game to be able to use their overwhelming resources from 0.0. to build and suicide Battleships, just to harrass and ruin the game experience in empire space, for some many people, those that don't want to take part in 0.0 affairs? It is wrong. Empire was not supposed to have such things occur on a regular basis. 140 Exhumers destroyed for nothing. Seems CCP really needs to address this problem, punish the offending corp and or alliance for such blatant harassment, instead of locking it down and trying to hide the serious issue this is becoming. Would you pay to play a game where all the high level characters could just come in and destroy everything you have worked for, with and for no good reason, and your losses are not even insurable, in an area where you are told it can't happen? Where do we go to petition all these losses in empire space that are uninsured, and should be considered exploitative, harassment, and basically ruining Eve-online for at least 140 people....and counting. I think each corp and alliance represented by the attackers, should have their security standings reduced, every member. What do you folks think? Yes.

Jaedan Chantes LiveTech Cold Fusion Syndicate	Posted - 2008.03.17 16:12:00 - [661] While I don't agree with what they're doing, if I think of it in a different light like "Hmm...that's less competition for me!" then it doesn't irk me as much. Plus, it looks like they have gotten some macroers out of this. Not sure how many are actually macroers they've hit compared to amount of real miners that have been hit. --- "Dear CCP, Could you change the name of the game to EvE - Offline ?"
Van Nuyss Perkone	Posted - 2008.03.17 17:06:00 - [662] From what ive seen In Jaschercis, they have left the macro miners alone and went after the Real Miners. How i know this? After watching the action in my covert ops. The macros sit there mining away as the goons light up local with smack and pop the real miners in the ice belt. I think it sucks. I know plenty of people that spent their training on industry and mining, not PVP. As for them its tough to get into the 0.0 as the Goons say they should with only mining and industry as a background. And how can these guys fight back? Far as im concerned its an exploit of the game mechanics. All they can hope for all 5K goons loose there sec stat to get in and have to leave to rat it back up in 0.0. Or quit playing eve. Just my opinion Nuyss
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.03.17 17:26:00 - [663] keep up the purge goons Originally by: Death Kill Go travel or live in the rainforest if neccesary, just dont turn to religion as its a cul de sac.
Eventy One Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2008.03.17 17:36:00 - [664] Originally by: Decker Jones I think you need to stop your whining. You are never safe in eve, this is the #1 lesson of the game. Not even in station?
Poppy Star Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2008.03.17 17:42:00 - [665] riiiight. So, goons blow up as many miners as possible, they or another large alliance then bring in their own, fleet style mining ops. Once established, no miners who AREN'T in their band of buddies gets nuked. Large alliances then control great swathes of high-sec AND low-sec AND 0.0. Now they control ore prices, which leads to controlling module, ship and rig prices. Fans of goon will say "so why don't you gang together and take them on?" hmm. Massive alliances decide to push up prices everywhere, new players either join alliance and become drones for them with little to no free will or die repeatedly then leave EVE. End result, 2 fat b.a5tard.5 sitting in their mommys basements run EVE. Oh goody
Ogul ZiTek Deepspace Explorations Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate	Posted - 2008.03.17 18:03:00 - [666] I am sure the amount of whine in this thread will make the goons reconsider. --- Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes.
Ryan Scouse'UK omen. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.03.17 18:23:00 - [667] I Dont live in empire - so Cant say I care.
goodby4u Logistic Technologies Incorporated	Posted - 2008.03.17 18:27:00 - [668] ITS GOONSWARM! If you see 80 people jump into the system all at once and your in a hulk then dock.
Darwin Duck Ark Royals	Posted - 2008.03.17 20:01:00 - [669] From what I've read here I only see one problem, and I might even have missunderstood it all. But the way I understand it is: If player A,B and C are out groupmining in high sec and someone come in to suicide-attack player A, then player B and C can't open fire on the Kamakazi pilot. All they can do is shield and armor rep player A If this is correct it's weak. Other than that I see no problem.
Malbolge Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.03.17 20:04:00 - [670] Nothing wrong with a lack of safety as long as it's reciprocal. Therefore I propose that the shields and hps of all Goon industrial POSes be the same as that of a handful of mackinaws. Or let them fit a tank at the cost of having to be refueled every 2 hours. There might be a few whines, in which case I would suggest they should stfu and adapt, and roundly be made fun of too. Because everybody knows that in hardcore sandbox pvp games things like good game design are not important.

Amarth Thargan Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.03.19 08:20:00 - [671] First of all, if you don't like a game, quit it. Whining but keeping on paying will only make the developers richer. Secondly the whole i'm hardcore and you're a carebear thing is rediculous. It's a game, you go really fast pewpew, the other does it slower or from a bad angel and loses (you can change pewpew with dice-roll, mouseclick,etc. Whatever mechanics you favor). Only thing you lose is ingame cash\ loot\ equip\ exp. The one thing that makes you a succesfull mmo player is balancing your time invested against frustration due to time lost, nothing more, nothing less. About the gank issue. Build more ships than they do, stalk em, kill em, loot their corpses and burn their villages. Poison their wells ans steal their cattle, heck give their starbase-adresses to local cult missionaries and various companies that specialise in home to home marketing, tupperware em to oblivion...anyway you get the point. To be honest, i can't be bother to ever start doing that. I just tend to move on to something new instead of getting needlessly worked up about a game. PS: if the games allow for certain things to get exploited, there is nothing preventing you from looking for counters ofcourse>
Gate Bait	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:22:00 - [672] The previous poster is right. I canÆt allow myself to be wrapped up in the loss of my Hulk. IÆm part of a small corp. with just a few players and do not have the resources to seek revenge, however I will way in on this discussion by saying this: Real world Money is what keeps Eve afloat, if through EveÆs continued growth the majority of player subscriptions ever become PVE heavy then you can bet that CCP will make changes to protect their PVE user revenue stream, which could very likely mean the elimination of PVP combat in certain areas such as a asteroid belt. For me, mining is no longer a game feature available to me; it has effectively become an un-implemented feature that is still in beta until the war regarding its implementation is over. One thing is certain, there are other games out there and you can bet that there will come a day when Eve has some serious competition from a game that provides a more PVE friendly gaming experience. When that happens, you can bet Eve will make whatever changes are necessary to prevent player hemorrhage if the scenario described above transpires. Until then I say let the Goons have their fun, they will eventually learn that their strategy is so intra-game short sided that they will discover that they are their own worst enemy.
Vinchester	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:26:00 - [673] Originally by: Gate Bait The previous poster is right. I canÆt allow myself to be wrapped up in the loss of my Hulk. IÆm part of a small corp. with just a few players and do not have the resources to seek revenge, however I will way in on this discussion by saying this: Real world Money is what keeps Eve afloat, if through EveÆs continued growth the majority of player subscriptions ever become PVE heavy then you can bet that CCP will make changes to protect their PVE user revenue stream, which could very likely mean the elimination of PVP combat in certain areas such as a asteroid belt. For me, mining is no longer a game feature available to me; it has effectively become an un-implemented feature that is still in beta until the war regarding its implementation is over. One thing is certain, there are other games out there and you can bet that there will come a day when Eve has some serious competition from a game that provides a more PVE friendly gaming experience. When that happens, you can bet Eve will make whatever changes are necessary to prevent player hemorrhage if the scenario described above transpires. Until then I say let the Goons have their fun, they will eventually learn that their strategy is so intra-game short sided that they will discover that they are their own worst enemy. wanna pve? PLAY WOW. ITS THAT SIMPLE. gosh.. u carebears make baby Jesus cry.
Gate Bait Imperial Academy	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:38:00 - [674] Edited by: Gate Bait on 04/04/2008 13:38:57 Originally by: Vinchester Originally by: Gate Bait The previous poster is right. I canÆt allow myself to be wrapped up in the loss of my Hulk. IÆm part of a small corp. with just a few players and do not have the resources to seek revenge, however I will way in on this discussion by saying this: Real world Money is what keeps Eve afloat, if through EveÆs continued growth the majority of player subscriptions ever become PVE heavy then you can bet that CCP will make changes to protect their PVE user revenue stream, which could very likely mean the elimination of PVP combat in certain areas such as a asteroid belt. For me, mining is no longer a game feature available to me; it has effectively become an un-implemented feature that is still in beta until the war regarding its implementation is over. One thing is certain, there are other games out there and you can bet that there will come a day when Eve has some serious competition from a game that provides a more PVE friendly gaming experience. When that happens, you can bet Eve will make whatever changes are necessary to prevent player hemorrhage if the scenario described above transpires. Until then I say let the Goons have their fun, they will eventually learn that their strategy is so intra-game short sided that they will discover that they are their own worst enemy. wanna pve? PLAY WOW. ITS THAT SIMPLE. gosh.. u carebears make baby Jesus cry. Thank you for proving my point about being short-sided. It only took 4 mins!
Nitemare111 Dark Horse Regiment Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.04 13:51:00 - [675] Okay, exhumer died? Outfit a BS with mining lasers, shield extenders, and cargo expanders. Gankers hate that, as they can't kill you fast enough. So you can't mine as fast. At least you get to take the ore home. Typhoon 4xMining Laser II 2x Assault or Heavy Launcher Tractor Salvager 1xC5L Booster 1xPeroxide Battery ?xlarge shield Extenders/Hardeners 7xCargo Expander II 3xCargo I Rigs ------ "When in doubt, aim for the crotch." "There's no problem that the application of suitable firepower cannot fix." Originally by: A Belief Nothing is yours until it's ISK in your wallet. So it goes.
Gate Bait	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:03:00 - [676] Originally by: Nitemare111 Okay, exhumer died? Outfit a BS with mining lasers, shield extenders, and cargo expanders. Gankers hate that, as they can't kill you fast enough. So you can't mine as fast. At least you get to take the ore home. Typhoon 4xMining Laser II 2x Assault or Heavy Launcher Tractor Salvager 1xC5L Booster 1xPeroxide Battery ?xlarge shield Extenders/Hardeners 7xCargo Expander II 3xCargo I Rigs Thanks for the suggestion, although I'm still stuck genenerating cash for ice products this will solve the ore problem.
Doonoo Boonoo	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:07:00 - [677] Originally by: Gate Bait For me, mining is no longer a game feature available to me; it has effectively become an un-implemented feature that is still in beta until the war regarding its implementation is over. Only because you can't set Goons to Red so they show up in local. Or get the info from the kill board on which Goons are doing this and add them to your adress book so you know if they are online. Because you can't run a locator agent to see where they are atm. Because you can't stay aligned to a station and be ready to dock as soon as you see them in local. It's not hard.There's no 'skill' involved.All you have to do is pay attention.
Shanur	Posted - 2008.04.04 14:11:00 - [678] Originally by: Gate Bait The previous poster is right. I canÆt allow myself to be wrapped up in the loss of my Hulk. IÆm part of a small corp. with just a few players and do not have the resources to seek revenge, however I will way in on this discussion by saying this: Real world Money is what keeps Eve afloat, if through EveÆs continued growth the majority of player subscriptions ever become PVE heavy then you can bet that CCP will make changes to protect their PVE user revenue stream, which could very likely mean the elimination of PVP combat in certain areas such as a asteroid belt. For me, mining is no longer a game feature available to me; it has effectively become an un-implemented feature that is still in beta until the war regarding its implementation is over. One thing is certain, there are other games out there and you can bet that there will come a day when Eve has some serious competition from a game that provides a more PVE friendly gaming experience. When that happens, you can bet Eve will make whatever changes are necessary to prevent player hemorrhage if the scenario described above transpires. Until then I say let the Goons have their fun, they will eventually learn that their strategy is so intra-game short sided that they will discover that they are their own worst enemy. One thing is certain. General chat will lose a lot of it's favorite whining topics if there's ever a ew PvE based scifi MMORPG coming out. EA might have been premature to milk E&B to death instead of rennovating it and offering it as a non PvP alternative to EVE. One look at posts like this proves there is definetely a market for such a game. And the rest of the EVE players sure won't miss them! Originally by: Malcanis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'. --
Commander 598 GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.04 15:35:00 - [679] I must know, if you really hate dealing with people so much why do you persist in playing games whose entire point is LOTS of other people?
Doonoo Boonoo Hedion University	Posted - 2008.04.04 16:54:00 - [680] Originally by: Commander 598 I must know, if you really hate dealing with people so much why do you persist in playing games whose entire point is LOTS of other people? It's not just you mate.They hate EVERYBODY! /hugs Commander 598

An Anarchyyt Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.04.04 16:54:00 - [681] Originally by: Gate Bait Until then I say let the Goons have their fun, they will eventually learn that their strategy is so intra-game short sided that they will discover that they are their own worst enemy. You really "get" Goons. Don't you? Originally by: CCP Wrangler Second, a gentile is a non jewish person
Gate Bait	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:34:00 - [682] Originally by: Doonoo Boonoo Edited by: Doonoo Boonoo on 04/04/2008 14:07:11 Originally by: Gate Bait For me, mining is no longer a game feature available to me; it has effectively become an un-implemented feature that is still in beta until the war regarding its implementation is over. Only because you can't be bothered to set Goons to Red so they show up in local. Or get the info from the kill board on which Goons are doing this and add them to your adress book so you know if they are online. Because you can't run a locator agent to see where they are atm. Because you can't stay aligned to a station and be ready to dock as soon as you see them in local. It's not hard.There's no 'skill' involved.All you have to do is pay attention. Once one removes all the distain an hatred from this reply, its actually good adivce and I thank you for it.
Zeba	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:42:00 - [683] I thought Jihadswarm turned out to be a massive pr stunt with moast of the kills being faked? Or is it just that cartoon guy thats claiming to be on all the kills but has no sec loss of note? Originally by: Malcanis Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'.
Sgt Brasco	Posted - 2008.04.04 17:49:00 - [684] My stance: it is crazy that Goon swarm can come into 0.5+ and suicide gank ships and get the insurance - the getting of the insurance is the crazy part, and something that i personally feel CCP should address regardless of the current situation. BUT... What would happen if this was happening to mission runners rather than miners? Before someone jumps on this comment, it is hypothetical in that I know it would need different tactics, if possible at all. And I am aware that some mission runners get suicide ganked - but I'm talking about a major across the board suicide ganking regardless of whether the ship is faction fitted. *Do so many* people say quit the whining because they don't mine, and thus it doesn't immediately affect them? Are too many of us turning a blind eye, until it effects us - and then will it be too late?**
Gate Bait	Posted - 2008.04.04 18:13:00 - [685] Originally by: Zeba I thought Jihadswarm turned out to be a massive pr stunt with moast of the kills being faked? Or is it just that cartoon guy thats claiming to be on all the kills but has no sec loss of note? Don't know, but my kill was real enough. The attacker took advantage of an exploit or there's a bug somewhere. After it was over I had no kill rights. It's currently being investagted by CCP.
Zeba	Posted - 2008.04.05 04:13:00 - [686] Originally by: Gate Bait Edited by: Gate Bait on 04/04/2008 18:20:07 Originally by: Zeba I thought Jihadswarm turned out to be a massive pr stunt with moast of the kills being faked? Or is it just that cartoon guy thats claiming to be on all the kills but has no sec loss of note? Don't know, but my kill was real enough. The attacker took advantage of an exploit or there's a bug or something. After it was over I had no kill rights. It's currently being investagted by CCP. Digs out his /tinfoilhat BTW the logs show nothing. Originally by: Malcanis Too many people confuse "Waah, I didn't get my own way" with 'poor customer service'.


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