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Titans are destroying the game. Remove the doomsday NOW.

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Kethry Avenger Angel Enterprises	Posted - 2008.05.10 16:45:00 - [631] Not having even seen a Titan yet and not really wanting to for that matter I did hear an idea I like in the COAD titan thread. Hell its probably already in this one I'm just not going to read all xx pages. Adjust the Titan effect so that it is dependent on Sig radius. With full effect or close to full effect on BC's and larger. This means it still hurts all ships on the grid and very helpful but doesn't ruin the game experience for 200+ people half of whom are probably lagged so much they couldn't warp off if they know they are supposed to. Then add a script that increases the damage of a Titan DD but only lets it hit one target. I think these should just be the starting points. See what this does and adjust from there.
Salient Soldier Minmatar Fatalix Inc. Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.10 22:34:00 - [632] Deterrents to pvp are a bad thing. And titans with DDs are the greatest deterrent to pvp in the game. you can read my rant in full here.
Jitabug Caldari Salvage Junkies	Posted - 2008.05.10 23:01:00 - [633] Given that Heavy Neuts and Tech II drones have a similar impact on frigate class vessels, as Titan's have to BS, can we have battleships removed too? This game is turning into battleships online.
Celeste Coeval The Gosimer and Scarab	Posted - 2008.05.11 01:16:00 - [634] Originally by: Kethry Avenger Not having even seen a Titan yet and not really wanting to for that matter I did hear an idea I like in the COAD titan thread. Hell its probably already in this one I'm just not going to read all xx pages. Adjust the Titan effect so that it is dependent on Sig radius. With full effect or close to full effect on BC's and larger. This means it still hurts all ships on the grid and very helpful but doesn't ruin the game experience for 200+ people half of whom are probably lagged so much they couldn't warp off if they know they are supposed to. Then add a script that increases the damage of a Titan DD but only lets it hit one target. I think these should just be the starting points. See what this does and adjust from there. this is that thread... Originally by: Lance Fighter This is either a troll or a noob... Ill take the noob route.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 06:37:00 - [635] Originally by: Jitabug Given that Heavy Neuts and Tech II drones have a similar impact on frigate class vessels, as Titan's have to BS, can we have battleships removed too? This game is turning into battleships online. A single battleship with heavy neuts and T2 drones cannot solo an entire fleet of frigates.
Nathvas	Posted - 2008.05.11 06:46:00 - [636] My suggestion to the DD is to change it. I always pictured it from star wars, as a big powerful gun that when it fires, something usually went boom. Just not entire fleets. So here is my crazy suggestion. Remove the DD aoe damage and make it a main cannon like in star wars. Every 5 mins it can shoot 1 round that Cap piolets fear. It won't instant pop a Carrier or dread but if a sheild tanker at full strength gets hit by it. It gets knocked down to 1/4 sheild strentgh. and for a sheild tanker, that hurts. For armor tankers at full strength. It rips threw all its sheilds and knocked it to 1/3 armor. As for battle ships, unless it has officer loot. It gets one shooted. This will make having Titans in Cap Fleet battles extremly important. Say you have a Target dread or Carrier armor tanking that is armor reping and is stable at 50% armor. The titan can target that carrier, engage the DD and pop that Cap ship. Of course, the titan should have some protection against smaller ships. So once every 2 minutes. It has a secondary gun system that does a 5km radius aoe barrage like artillary in RL. Maybye it will land near you and blow your frigate to smitherans, or maybye you'll get lucky and the round will donate a little bit away from you and you surive. Who knows, excpet the myserious dice rollers. The damage this barrage does is 100-1000 damage. With 1000 damage being like 10% of happening with the lower amounts increasing. Reason I say up to 1k damage is this gives the titan the potentiol to blow up frigates if they some how get lucky with no gurantee to 1 shot entire squadrons.
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 06:47:00 - [637] Oh Em Ge... I just lost my frigate to a CRUISER!!1!one! He had moar gunz than me! I think Cruisers overwhelm poor defenseless frigates! We should get rid of anything larger than the free Rookie boats... immediately, if not sooner. Why has this conversation gone on for 22 pages? Titans are the Eve equal to a Death Star. Of course they are going to be powerful. And if someone should happen to amass eight (8) of them in one place, then you shouldn't even dream of winning that fight. Don't whine and gripe about how your Interceptor is uber fast and should be able to outrun it. Or how the energy wave being released should get soaked up before it hurts you and makes you die. Titans aren't invincible, but they are supposed to be tough. That's why they take over a year to train into. If you're fighting 8 Titans, it's time to reconsider tactics. If you're upset because Eve has such things... go play Checkers instead.
Doc Iridium Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2008.05.11 07:09:00 - [638] Originally by: HydroSan Originally by: Jitabug Given that Heavy Neuts and Tech II drones have a similar impact on frigate class vessels, as Titan's have to BS, can we have battleships removed too? This game is turning into battleships online. A single battleship with heavy neuts and T2 drones cannot solo an entire fleet of frigates. Provided that the frigates are competently commanded and fitted, correct. At the same time a single titan cannot solo an entire fleet of battleships provided that the battleships are competently commanded and fitted. A dozen 100k effective armor remote rep battleships with 1 remote armor rep and 1 heavy neut each would *****a titan if it had no support. Granted the chance of finding a Titan with no support is much lower than the chance of finding a battleship with no support Well, I've said my piece - wait, is that Veldspar over there? Woot!
xHomicide Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2008.05.11 13:30:00 - [639] Edited by: xHomicide on 11/05/2008 13:30:23 A titan's DD should kill capitals (including other titans), that would fix the games capital problem. Hell, make it wipe out POS at the same time, that would fix the game's ****ty POS warfare. --- Razor CEI
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 16:17:00 - [640] Edited by: HydroSan on 11/05/2008 16:19:46 So it looks like the alt brigade has a new song: OMG CRUISER SOLO FRIGATE The fact remains that a cruiser does not have a 250km omnidirection 70k damage smartbomb that can be fired by mashing a single button repeatedly until it fires. A cruiser must be fit properly, get into position of the frigate, probably web the frigate unless it's a HAC sniper, and then turn on all of his modules. If the frigate has other friends, he must have a tank and deal with those too, or gank enough of them before his tank runs dry. The cruiser has to use tactics. It has to be completely aware of everything shooting at it. It has to know if x-number of frigates can break his tank before he can gank enough of them. Warping to a covops and mashing F1 until a big fireworks display comes from your ship is not tactics. Having seven buddies that do the same thing at the same time is not tactics: it's blobbing. The anti-blob ship has turned into the ship that people use to blob itself. Ironic, isn't it? Why should I have to play "Dodge The Dictor" while my enemy can just warp in expensive ships and try to one-shot my entire fleet repeatedly? How is it fair that I have to have some kind of clairvoyance in order to survive while the Titan pilot just has to see if ships are <250km from him and then mash a button and watch the killmails roll in? Why should spending a certain amount of ISK allow you to break the balance of the game?

Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 16:41:00 - [641] Because it's not only the ISK they spent for the Titan and DDD, along with all the other mods they have installed. It's they year+++ they spent training to be able to use it. You want to make a month old alt comparable with a 5 year veteran. I agree that DDD is an awesome and scary weapon. And certainly having someone bring in 8 Titans at once would be enough to make me log out in the hopes I might have a pod to come back to. But don't tell me excessive firepower is enough grounds for a total reworking of the system. Or that Cruiser pilot will want the several frigates gnawing away at his armor nerfed as well.
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 16:54:00 - [642] Edited by: HydroSan on 11/05/2008 16:53:46 Originally by: Marcus Gideon Because it's not only the ISK they spent for the Titan and DDD, along with all the other mods they have installed. It's they year+++ they spent training to be able to use it. You want to make a month old alt comparable with a 5 year veteran. You seem to be confused. This isn't WoW. This is EVE Online. Whoever has the highest level should not be given an I-Win button (or multiple I-Win buttons) simply because they've powergamed hard enough to come into possession of ships that can one-shot entire fleets. This isn't good for game balance, it isn't fun, and it doesn't promote tactics or warfare. If you want a game where you can just poopsock and then become an unstoppable one-man-killing-machine then I suggest you sell your EVE characters, pick up a WoW character and grind yourself retarded.
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 17:09:00 - [643] Originally by: HydroSan You seem to be confused. This isn't WoW. This is EVE Online. Whoever has the highest level should not be given an I-Win button (or multiple I-Win buttons) simply because they've powergamed hard enough to come into possession of ships that can one-shot entire fleets. This isn't good for game balance, it isn't fun, and it doesn't promote tactics or warfare. First... don't think that invoking WoW like some sort of curse will scare me. I'm not afraid to mention "The MMO That Shall Not Be Named" for fear it'll enrage someone. You'll notice Eve doesn't have character levels. But it does have Skill Points based on training. No matter how much you cry about it, someone who has spent time doing a job will be better than someone who just showed up. Players in Eve start out "even" in that they have the same basic skills and the same number of SP. But the moment you start training your first skill, you're on your own. If you train to Mine, you're not going to be as good at combat as someone who started Fighting right away. As for the DDD, they have a cooldown after use. And the smart fleet would send in a handful of ships, wait for the DDD to go off, and then warp in enough to take it down before it recharges. Arguing about 8 Titans is rediculous, because there are 8 of them. No amount of whining will save you from 8 nuclear weapons going off in your backyard. But striking at the owners might. So find out where these folks are keeping those 8 Titans, and take them out where they live. Or get out of 0.0 so they can't use this advantage over you.
Nathvas	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:35:00 - [644] If there wasn't the issue of lag. I'd probably say leave the DD alone. Cause you could warp away before it donate, but with all the lag with large fleet engagements. I say Make the DD a anti-cap ship cannon. Instead of a Anti-fleet support weapon. Even the death star in star wars wasn't a single fleet killer. Its main gun toke out Cap ships and other large ships. But had a hard time with the smaller ones.
BigWhale Gallente Divine Power R0ADKILL	Posted - 2008.05.11 19:47:00 - [645] From smart bombs to DD, they all should do a damage in an expanding sphere around the ship and the damage should drop rapidly while expanding outwards from the ship. Just like it happenes with radio waves. That. Or DD's shouldn't be a pulse weapon but more of a really rapid pulse laser that can destroy a BS with one pulse. It simply targets each and every ship on the grid firing pulses very rapidly. So it would take 30 seconds or so to hit 100 ships. Or just make titans a really huge support ships. ;> -- R, U & Y are letters, not words...
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:02:00 - [646] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Arguing about 8 Titans is rediculous, because there are 8 of them. No amount of whining will save you from 8 nuclear weapons going off in your backyard. But striking at the owners might. So find out where these folks are keeping those 8 Titans, and take them out where they live. Or get out of 0.0 so they can't use this advantage over you. Take out where they live... how? By sieging their space and running into 8 titans? You're confusing the chicken and the egg. As for "if you don't have 8 titans get out of 0.0" comment... I don't have anything to say to that. Try to remember that this is a game and CCP has a responsibility to keep it balanced so it remains fun; for both the attacking force who have nothing to do as their friends fire off 8 nukes, and the defending force who can't do anything about it.
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:22:00 - [647] Who are you hanging out with, that they have 8 Titans at their disposal? What seems to be getting missed this whole time, is the balance already instituted with the DDD. They require fuel to set off. The Titan requires fuel to get into position to be set off. And they can only be used once per hour. Don't blame your opponents tactics by reinforcing the 1/hour by arranging for several. However, I could see a simple balance being; make the DDD affect everyone in range. Friend, foe, neutral, cats, dogs, squirrels... Kill them all. Then everyone will be more hesitant to set them off, especially 8 in rapid succession.
Pesadel0 Minmatar Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:29:00 - [648] Originally by: HydroSan Originally by: Marcus Gideon Arguing about 8 Titans is rediculous, because there are 8 of them. No amount of whining will save you from 8 nuclear weapons going off in your backyard. But striking at the owners might. So find out where these folks are keeping those 8 Titans, and take them out where they live. Or get out of 0.0 so they can't use this advantage over you. Take out where they live... how? By sieging their space and running into 8 titans? You're confusing the chicken and the egg. As for "if you don't have 8 titans get out of 0.0" comment... I don't have anything to say to that. Try to remember that this is a game and CCP has a responsibility to keep it balanced so it remains fun; for both the attacking force who have nothing to do as their friends fire off 8 nukes, and the defending force who can't do anything about it. Bring more people?Attack other systems?Try to defend your Cynojammed systems?Attrition war?Bring more people and make them stay and attack for longer periods of time? ------------------------------------------------------------------
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:38:00 - [649] Here we go... Goon and BOB are gonna argue this out. =D Seriously though, the Titan is the Eve version of a nuclear bomb. Not to dredge up bad memories, but I'm pretty sure Japan cried "Nerf!" too. This game appears to be growing stale for all the seasoned veterans. They have learned their tactics, learned what steps 1, 2, and 3 need to be done for situation A. And when someone comes up with a deviation, they insist everything needs corrected to get it back to their comfort level. Learn to adapt and overcome.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:44:00 - [650] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Who are you hanging out with, that they have 8 Titans at their disposal? What seems to be getting missed this whole time, is the balance already instituted with the DDD. They require fuel to set off. The Titan requires fuel to get into position to be set off. And they can only be used once per hour. Don't blame your opponents tactics by reinforcing the 1/hour by arranging for several. However, I could see a simple balance being; make the DDD affect everyone in range. Friend, foe, neutral, cats, dogs, squirrels... Kill them all. Then everyone will be more hesitant to set them off, especially 8 in rapid succession. Don't discuss things you obviously have no clue about. 1. There is at least 2, probably 3 alliances with 8 titans at their disposal. 2. The fuel needed is a joke, its practically free. 3. They already hit both friend and foe in the area of effect.

Kasheem Cetanes The Scope	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:52:00 - [651] Solutions to titans in my eyes: Dooms Day Nerf (not change in damage, but make the titan deal substantially more damage to its self / other titans and supercapitals) A shield ship of some sort, that absorbs all damage delt to / from a specific area so it gets pwnt but protects its fleet Suicide ships like scrabs from starcraft, that are like battleships that crash into titans and do millions of damage, but its based off of sig radius -shrug- discuss?
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 20:59:00 - [652] Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 11/05/2008 21:00:18 Alright... if DDD affects everyone, then their fleet should be dying too. If they're running first, that should be a clue to you what's coming. Why should a DDD affect the Titan, when no other weapon hurts the ship it's mounted on. Shield ships have been suggested, but they are all geared towards damage immunity instead of DDD negation. So Shield ships will be abused by Gate Camps and who knows what else. Kamikaze might be interesting...
HydroSan GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.05.11 21:23:00 - [653] Edited by: HydroSan on 11/05/2008 21:23:24 Originally by: Marcus Gideon Edited by: Marcus Gideon on 11/05/2008 21:00:18 Alright... if DDD affects everyone, then their fleet should be dying too. If they're running first, that should be a clue to you what's coming. Two sniper fleets 140km away from each other. Fleet 1 <---140km---> Fleet 2 All you have to do is warp the Titan blob 200km behind Fleet 2 and set off your nukes: well out of range of Fleet 1, and well out of striking distance of Fleet 2, not that they would have time to react between "TITANS ON GRID" and the Titan pilots setting off their fireworks two seconds later. Fleet 1 <---140km---> Fleet 2 <---200km---> Titan Blob And there you have it: how to one-shot an entire fleet.
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 21:26:00 - [654] Sounds like a spectacular strategy you're upset you didn't use first. Why not get a handful of Titans, and do the same to them?
Hunlight Faithus Sky Net Industries Pure.	Posted - 2008.05.11 21:51:00 - [655] What i would propose for changes to the titan is to bring it to the front lines of the fight. They can currently fit capital gun/missiles but there kinda only useful against pos and other caps(if there not moving) the way i see the titan should be used is as an anticapital ship but also maintain some of its current roles aminly the logistics. (i'll touch on the ddd in a bit) I think that per level the titan should get maybe a 10-25% bonus to damage of its capital wepons, then a 15% bonus per level for tracking, and explosiong velocity for missiles. this would make it very effective at killing capital ships hopefully making people bring them to the forefront of a capital gang rather than just dd'ing bs gangs. it should maintain all its current bonuses. Doomsdays should be scripted, they could be used in an uber death ray type thing which could insta pop a carrier but mean the titan is stuck in place for 5 minutes (maybe more?), with it taking 95% of cap away and make it so the script is destroyed and the scipts to have a price of say 50mil a pop?? or make it somewhat like its current use still been able to doomsday bs fleets but at reduced range say 150km? also make it increase its sig radius by 200% and 95% cap used, with it then beeing stuck for 20 minutes. Now to me it would seem this maintains enough of its current role not to anger the large allinces with large numbers of them but also expose them more by been able to kill capitals effecivly without need to siege etc?? Just thought i'd throw that out there, say what you want :) ------------------------------------------------------
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:36:00 - [656] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Sounds like a spectacular strategy you're upset you didn't use first. Why not get a handful of Titans, and do the same to them? Why don't you play a bit longer than 2 months and get some experience in warfare before discussing stuff you have no clue about?
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:42:00 - [657] Hmm... sorry, darned Freedom of Speech getting me into bad habits. I thought the 23 PAGES of arguments for and against meant I could chip in a bit. Sorry to step on the toes of the big kids and their conversation "We lost because they had bigger ships than us!" I'm sure CCP is just dying to step in here and make sure everyone plays nice.
Malachon Draco eXceed Inc. eXceed.	Posted - 2008.05.11 22:48:00 - [658] Originally by: Marcus Gideon Hmm... sorry, darned Freedom of Speech getting me into bad habits. I thought the 23 PAGES of arguments for and against meant I could chip in a bit. Sorry to step on the toes of the big kids and their conversation "We lost because they had bigger ships than us!" I'm sure CCP is just dying to step in here and make sure everyone plays nice. I'm sorry to sound so harsh, but its quite obvious you've never been in a large 0.0 conflict before. And in this case, that is actually pretty relevant in terms of what is and isn't possible. I take no pleasure in telling you this, but you're not really contributing anything to the discussion if you don't have a clue about what is going on. The issue here is not that I don't agree with you, but there are really a lot of aspects to this whole thing which you're missing.
Kitoba Minmatar Legion of Dynamic Discord	Posted - 2008.05.11 23:14:00 - [659] Edited by: Kitoba on 11/05/2008 23:15:01 Let recharge time grow exponentially if the dd is fired in rapid succession. Alternatively, make the dd operate by igniting everything of vacuum that isn't vacuum, which of course depletes it further until additional dd's just make no significant damage whatsoever. Very effectively caps its usage. Edit: The implementation of the second idea is pure hell.
Marcus Gideon	Posted - 2008.05.11 23:15:00 - [660] I agree... that I'm new and may not understand. But I think I have the general idea of "lots of ships on either side, shooting at each other" and when someone shows up with 8 nuclear weapons, it will ruin the mood pretty fast. But I have to think, among other strategies... what works for one can work for another. Build your own squadron of Titans, and bring them into the fray before they do. Do unto others, and so forth. Cyno can only be used in 0.0? Or just Low Sec period. I seem to think 0.0 in which case you could make the enemy fight on your terms by moving to 0.1 and removing the Titan problem completely. I think there's other ways to correct this issue, without rendering the Titan completely useless.



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