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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 15 post(s) |
Lorna Loot
Caldari
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:56:00 -
[451]
 Originally by: Shadowsword
Originally by: Lorna Loot
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Guerilla warfare isn't about small gang facing down big blob. Read up on what it is.
Lol are you stupid? That is exactly what guerilla warfare is.
You are stupid. Guerilla warfare is about hitting where the enemy isn't in strength. It's NOT a frontal charge against overwhelming numbers.
Originally by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare
Guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat with which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics (ambushes, raids, etc.) to combat a larger and less mobile formal army. The guerrilla army uses ambush (draw enemy forces to terrain unsuited to them) and mobility (advantage and surprise) in attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory.
Nanos v RR BS blob are pretty useless without massive ECM support.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:56:00 -
[452]
Originally by: Ikvar
DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
FIT AN AFTERBURNER!
Seriously, red bold text really doesn't help your point get across, it just makes you look childish.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Grarr Dexx
Amarr
Naval Protection Corp
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:57:00 -
[453]
Originally by: Cpt Cosmic
warp scrambler disabling mwd sux, if ccp does this, it should not stop ship from warping, I mean it is not like every ship has 7 mids for MWD/AB/DISRUPTOR/SCRAM/WEB/CAP BOOSTER/WEB because this will be all mandatory for pvp then and it will cripple some ships even more like erm, Assault ships. adjusting speeds would be enough but this is just crazy.
How about you stick to crying instead of speculating.
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KingCappo
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:57:00 -
[454]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Answering a few common questions:
Do Warp Scramblers still disable your warp drive?
- Yupp.
Remind me what the whole point of scripts was again?
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Divus
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:57:00 -
[455]
Originally by: Ikvar
NERF CCP.
-------------------------------------------------
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:58:00 -
[456]
Originally by: Lorna Loot
Originally by: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_warfare
Guerrilla warfare is the unconventional warfare and combat with which a small group of combatants use mobile tactics (ambushes, raids, etc.) to combat a larger and less mobile formal army. The guerrilla army uses ambush (draw enemy forces to terrain unsuited to them) and mobility (advantage and surprise) in attacking vulnerable targets in enemy territory.
Nanos v RR BS blob are pretty useless without massive ECM support.
You're continuing to quote this like it applies. It doesn't; move on and discuss blobs for god's sake. It's a valid issue totally irrelevant to nano's - blobs affect everyone.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
EmpO3
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:58:00 -
[457]
If you take away speed then thats one less choice for pvpers, who only have 3 choices at the moment being : Nano, Tank, Gank.
If you take away speed then its going to be welcome to tank and gank online, which leads to even more welcome to capitals online.
Im sorry but i dont want to play welcome to capitals online.
NANO GANGS CAN BE EASILY STOPED BY RAPIERS AND HUGINNS THATS WHAT THEY ARE MADE FOR!! NOOBS NEED TO STOP COMPLAINING AND GET HUGINNS AND RAPIERS IN THEIR DAMN FLEETS!
If you nerf speed i will quit eve, 2 acconts lost ccp.
Nerfing speed is the best way to cater to the noobs of eve.
And the last point, a ceptor that dosnt do about 6k+/s is a dead ceptor, meaning a speed nerf ,may lead to them being obsolete.
BOYCOT THE SPEED NERF!!!
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Einstein's Ghost
Codex Aureus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:58:00 -
[458]
Thank you CCP, thank you so much... 
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Sgt Napalm
Synergy Evolved
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:59:00 -
[459]
Whats going to happen to blaster boats? 
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Lorna Loot
Caldari
Nox Eternus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:59:00 -
[460]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Ikvar
DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
FIT AN AFTERBURNER!
Seriously, red bold text really doesn't help your point get across, it just makes you look childish.
SHIT NOW I'M WEBBED AND GET THE SAME SPEED PRE AB
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Crumplecorn
Gallente
Eve Cluster Explorations
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:59:00 -
[461]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
You're not thinking outside the box. A warp scrambler will have zero effect on an afterburner. Propose that ABs get a small increase if you feel they're too slow.
This is a joke. I can tell from some of the absurdity and from having seen a lot of jokes in my time.
-
DesuSigs |
Kazan Bho
Minmatar
Masuat'aa Matari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:59:00 -
[462]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
...this is what four of us came up with during the course of a mere five hour meeting on the current speed crisis:
The four of you have, at some point in the recent past actually played the game?
Your best ideas for reducing speed in game include;
1) Nerfing the most effective ships at reducing speed (Rapier, Hyena)
2) Nerfing the most effective module for reducing speed
3) Increasing the speed difference between Inties and everything else
I can only assume that this meeting was held at some seedy bar, late at night and decisions were taken while everyone was distracted by scantily clad ladies shaking their lovelies and whatnot.
Essentially, CCP seems to be homogenizing all the ships so that nothing actually stands out as being useful for anything in particular.
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Pushtan
Ministry of Destruction
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 14:59:00 -
[463]
Originally by: EmpO3
If you take away speed then thats one less choice for pvpers, who only have 3 choices at the moment being : Nano, Tank, Gank.
If you take away speed then its going to be welcome to tank and gank online, which leads to even more welcome to capitals online.
Im sorry but i dont want to play welcome to capitals online.
NANO GANGS CAN BE EASILY STOPED BY RAPIERS AND HUGINNS THATS WHAT THEY ARE MADE FOR!! NOOBS NEED TO STOP COMPLAINING AND GET HUGINNS AND RAPIERS IN THEIR DAMN FLEETS!
If you nerf speed i will quit eve, 2 acconts lost ccp.
Nerfing speed is the best way to cater to the noobs of eve.
And the last point, a ceptor that dosnt do about 6k+/s is a dead ceptor, meaning a speed nerf ,may lead to them being obsolete.
BOYCOT THE SPEED NERF!!!
yet more stuffs for me to has...k go
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:00:00 -
[464]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
Nuff said in my view.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Dungar Loghoth
Caldari
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:00:00 -
[465]
Edited by: Dungar Loghoth on 25/07/2008 15:03:36
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Death to small roaming gangs
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
What the **** kind of an argument is this?
Edit: Small roaming gangs were effective before snakes and polys because ships had half as much HP, didn't fit 3 plates, and RR wasn't really an effective strategy because logistics ships didn't exist.
Is your argument really, "Well, it worked before, so it will work again, despite the fact that every aspect of the game has changed since then."?
---
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DeadDuck
Amarr
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:00:00 -
[466]
Tank you, thank you so much CCP. 
________________
God is my Wingman |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:01:00 -
[467]
Originally by: Crumplecorn
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
You're not thinking outside the box. A warp scrambler will have zero effect on an afterburner. Propose that ABs get a small increase if you feel they're too slow.
This is a joke. I can tell from some of the absurdity and from having seen a lot of jokes in my time.
Yes it's a joke. However, since nano's were a bad joke, I think it's time to find some new material.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Stiletto
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:01:00 -
[468]
Minmatar Character for Sale
LVL 5 RECON
HIGH NAV SKILLS
2 x POLY RIGGED RAPIERS
2 X POLY RIGGED VAGA
1 isk or best offer,
CCP this is the most lame idea ever, This will become BLOB Online, What fun is that, This kill all Solo and Small Gang warfare which is enjoyable way of combat, Why not boost missles instead of nerfing Minmatar,
I like roaming in small gangs now with this being implement that gone out of the window,
If this goes ahead then my 5 accounts would be closed, unless you rebalance all time and isk i spent maximised a minmatar character which main bonus reley on speed to survive,
Boycott this Dam idea
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Veldya
Caldari
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:01:00 -
[469]
Originally by: Serilla
Where's the module that counters missiles now  (lol defenders)
EW can be pretty effective against missiles, smartbombs can destroy missiles. Missiles are hardly the most sought after PvP weapon of choice, even after you remove the speed element of nano the time it takes for missiles to reach their target still makes them inferior to turrets.
They should never have been rendered useless against nano ships and the nano community could probably have avoided major nerfs to nanos if they were pro-active to address the major problem instead of denying there was any problem.
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Riho
Gallente
Mercenary Forces
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:01:00 -
[470]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: Ikvar
DO NOT RUIN BLASTER SHIPS!
FIT AN AFTERBURNER!
Seriously, red bold text really doesn't help your point get across, it just makes you look childish.
have you ever tryd to AB a megathron ??? have you ???
smaller blaster ships like deimos.... MYBE can do something whit a AB.. but a AB on hype/mega is soo useless its the same as whitout it
----------------------------------
Fighting for Minmatar o7
Yes... this is my main.
Extreme Troll Slayer...
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Oregon sinful
Black Plague.
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:01:00 -
[471]
My thoughts,
Lets look at what CCP is really doing:
Here's a list of next to worthless ships for pvp atm based on design and nerfs.
AF's - always have been always will be.
Gallente recons/celestis - Until they fix the damp nerf
Pilgrim - nos nerf
Eos - it just got ****ed nuff said.
Astarte - only good for bonuses
Myrmidon - 5 MEDIUM drones? how do I kill even another bc with that pitiful dps?
Drake - Tank nerf, and it's caldari.
All teir 1 BC - they're just bad.
Black ops - face it, nobody flys them
Destroyers - paper thin and slow
Sentinel - nos nerf killed this before it was a twinkle in daddy ccp's eyes
Keres - mini arazu/lach but paper thin and hit by damp nerf before it was ever designed.
Crusader - only two midslots :/
Raptor - really bad dps/surviability
Claw - same as crusader, Aris used to fit in this category, now just has really bad dps
heritic - like t1 destroyers paper thin and slow
flycatcher - same as a heritic
Eris - worst interdictor available leaving the sabre as the only viable alternitive.
Oneiros - Train for a guradian.
Sacrilege - another, used to be good ship
Eagle - sniping does ok, but paper thin, non-nanoable
Deimos - good dps but you have to be ridiculously close, weak tank
Munion - like deimos, popps easily.
Covert ops/industry based - not meant for pvp
So this leaves as viable options for sucessful pvp:
Battleships
Marauders (hella expensive tho)
Hurricane and Prophecy to an extent
Capitals
Ammar commands (insane tanks low dps)
Caldari Commands (mostly for gang bonus)
Minmatar Commands (speed bonus wee!)
Kitsune jammer bonus is good
Zealot (nano)
Cerb (nano)
Ishtar (nano)
Vaga (nano)
Heavy interdictors
malediction
crow
taranis/ares
stiletto
Sabre
Guardian (gang work only)
Basilisk (gang work only)
Scimitar (gang work only)
Falcon/rook (jammers yay :))
With this nerf they limit the sensable ship selection for solo/small gang down to:
Battleships
2 BC
A few commands
Jammers (kitsune/falcon/rook)
The Curse.
Logistics
Interceptors to temporary tackle and gtfo.
So start selling your Domi webs, Polycarbs, Faction Mwd's and speed mods while you can still get reasonable isk for them.
Load up on jammers and jamming ships, Curses and popular BS because that's all people are going to fly after this patch.
In an effort to shut the nano crybabys up CCP is making this game a heavy weight, stand in a ring and Beat the other guy till he breaks sensless, no skill beyond characture SP slug fest.
It's going to be BS and Jammers online. A group of hacs won't be able to go toe to toe with a bs gang and survive anymore because at = or less DPS the greater BS tanks will win.
Flame away, tell me why your ship up there is actually 1337 and your the pwnzor and how I fail. Fact is ccp has done nothing but take away, take away and take away besides add rediculous and overly expensive options.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:02:00 -
[472]
Originally by: Dungar Loghoth
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Death to small roaming gangs
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
What the **** kind of an argument is this?
Erm, a valid one? Care to actually counter it?
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation or alliance, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... |
Sakura Nihil
Stimulus
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:02:00 -
[473]
I'll be blunt, I think you're off-base with this one.
Why does nano exist? Simply put, its the best option to combat blobs out there today - instead of having to fight them directly, which pits our numbers versus theirs, it circumvents that, allowing an outnumbered force to attempt to wear down their targets and eventually go in for the kill.
Nerfing it is going to strengthen the blob. And if I know you with even one ounce of my soul, that is the last thing you want in this game - how's it going to do that, you ask? Because nano an effective counter to numbers, instead of bringing more numbers you just have to bring more speed - it allows small corporations to the opportunity to run with the big dogs in 0.0, if they're good enough.
While I like the stealth AF boost and web nerf here, even the exponentially decreasing speed a shipclass has, there's a problem with your methodology - part of balancing something means looking beyond the first order effects, as much as possible.
That same lack of foresight has been prevalent in the past - just look at sovereignty mechanics. They were designed to give small alliances the chance to claim a rock in the stormy sea of 0.0, and be very difficult to dislodge - a sort of "castle in space" - those were the devs intentions, now, look at the map. How many independent groups of small, 0.0 spaceholding entities do we see out there? Ones that actually stand on their own legs, without being a pet or large alliance "affiliate"? Not a lot, by my count - what CCP intended and what actually happened were two different things.
I'm calling it now, this is going to be a similar situation if it goes through. I'm not defending the 12+km/s Vagas out there, or the 20+km/s inties, or anything like that - they are the exception to the rule, the outlier, beyond the third standard deviation if you will. Not only that, there are a lot of decent counters for nanos out there today, from Rapier & Huginns to Curses, to the insane concept of an interceptor squadron with webs (holy crap) - the situation that's trying to be balanced here is simply unfair to the nano pilot, its the blobbers sitting there with their Drakes and their Dominixes and their Maelstroms saying "sit still and die!", instead of actually doing something about it in a reasonable way.
As far as "speed being the only counter to speed", that's not entirely correct. RR a plated Huginn in the middle of that blob, that has overheated (and preferably skirmish linked) webbers, and nanoships won't be able to come close - ditto Curses, it goes on. The bottom line that I'm trying to get across to you, the devs assigned to this, is that while I realize you're not destroying nano, you're hurting it to the point where it simply won't be effective anymore.
But, back to the main thrust of the argument.
Ask yourself, "will EVE be better off this way?" - instead of just looking at how it will change a fight, how will that fight change EVE? In CAOD, a Burn Eden member shared a quote that he had captured during his camping times...
"You don't blob, you just lack numbers."
This is the very essence of the game, right now. In the past year or two, the population of the game has exploded, and unlike other MMOs, EVE's gameplay responds to those numbers - it has to, as its a single server concept. Others would just shard, or add new servers to play on, but here, a population increase means that everyone feels it, the traders, the miners, the fighters.
With the increase in population comes the death of playstyles. Practically no one solos these days, simply because the risk v. reward is massively favoring risk, and right behind it is small gang warfare - in your push for more subscribers, you have unintentionally altered the content of your game.
I suppose I'm being a bitter old vet here, but frankly, I am. This is going to backfire in the faces of CCP if it goes through, no doubts about it.
*sighs*
Click me! You know you want to... |
Cpt Cosmic
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:02:00 -
[474]
Originally by: Grarr Dexx
How about you stick to crying instead of speculating.
how about using your brain? how will you get out of bubble with mwd which you cant use or get back to the gate with AB?
hooray gatecamps online here I come! 
Originally by: CCP Nozh
We're also considering on removing the stacking penalty from stasis webifiers
omg what are you smoking? ^^
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Richard Angevian
The Crusaders.
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:02:00 -
[475]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Answering a few common questions:
Do WCS counter the Warp Scramblers ability to disable MWD's?
- No, not in our current implementation. We've thought about it, but as is, they don't.
Do Warp Scramblers still disable your warp drive?
- Yupp.
Will my MWD be affected by Bubbles?
- No, it won't.
Close range tracking, blasters, webbies, etc.
- Disabling the MWD + -60% speed reduction is far more effective than the old -90% webifier. This of course only applies to MWD targets. Afterburner targets will be less vulnerable to close range damage dealing ships, but that's part of the change, the verity. Smaller faster moving targets will have a better chance of evading death, but I'm sure drones on blaster boats will come in handy here.
We're also considering on removing the stacking penalty from stasis webifiers, but that really comes down to testing.
We'll keep a close eye on this when it hits SISI.
Specialized webifing & MWD ships have dated bonsues.
- We'll keep a close eye on these ships once the changes hit SISI.
Death to small roaming gangs
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
Avoiding the tough question, as always... These changes seriously destroy close range combat (ie: blasters).
And one single module that can do two different things (kill warp and MWD) is WAY overpowered.
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Garreck
Amarr Border Defense Consortium
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:02:00 -
[476]
I think this is an interesting approach that deserves a bit of testing from the speed demons. Slow down everything...but make the results of a "solid" tackle less inevitable.
Quite frankly, I think the main change that will take place is that nanopilots will simply have to become as skilled at flying their ships as they claim to be currently.
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Serilla
The Collective
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:02:00 -
[477]
Originally by: CCP Nozh
Answering a few common questions:
Do WCS counter the Warp Scramblers ability to disable MWD's?
- No, not in our current implementation. We've thought about it, but as is, they don't.
Do Warp Scramblers still disable your warp drive?
- Yupp.
Will my MWD be affected by Bubbles?
- No, it won't.
Close range tracking, blasters, webbies, etc.
- Disabling the MWD + -60% speed reduction is far more effective than the old -90% webifier. This of course only applies to MWD targets. Afterburner targets will be less vulnerable to close range damage dealing ships, but that's part of the change, the verity. Smaller faster moving targets will have a better chance of evading death, but I'm sure drones on blaster boats will come in handy here.
We're also considering on removing the stacking penalty from stasis webifiers, but that really comes down to testing.
We'll keep a close eye on this when it hits SISI.
Specialized webifing & MWD ships have dated bonsues.
- We'll keep a close eye on these ships once the changes hit SISI.
Death to small roaming gangs
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
What about the boost to missiles? If you're removing a counter for them (speed) what's there to replace it?
__________________
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whisk
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:03:00 -
[478]
will range of warp scramblers be increased?
because otherwise youll never get any one with mwd that close ..
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XxAngelxX
Amarr
The Illuminati.
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:03:00 -
[479]
Originally by: Astria Tiphareth
Originally by: CCP Nozh
- Small roaming gangs existed long before polycarbon engine housings and snake sets. Sure we're reducing the maximum speed achievable but you'll still be able to go a lot faster than a standard MWD fit with various speed mods.
Nuff said in my view.
Right, and why did people start nanoing? To adapt to the blobs, capital ships dropped on BS + slow gangs etc.
These changes are way too radical. Polys needed a nerf, fine. All this extra stuff? Unneccessary. Don't over-fix something that is not fundamentally broken.
Those nano pilots will adapt, and the part-time pvpers will find a new tactic to whine about (ECM, Damps, WCS etc) and the circular nerfing will continue until everyone is in ravens shooting at each other from range.
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Dance Puppets, Dance |
Agmar
Game-Over
The Requiem
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Posted - 2008.07.25 15:03:00 -
[480]
Thread needs a bumper sticker like the carrier one.
However, I enjoy reading the discussions here. As a mega pilot, I don't see this as the death of blaster ships, but instead a reason to get back in them.
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